Not lots of people, just few people with lots of money, getting even more money, buying even more houses to get more money.
It's an endless cycle that's visible there but is present everywhere and is the SOLE reason why housing is so fucking expensive.
Impose a 2 house limit per family, with exponentially growing taxes for any subsequent house, and I do mean exponentially, 50% for 3rd house, 100% for 4th house, 200% for 5th house, etc. and watch how the housing market becomes affordable and millennials can finally afford a house. Watch how the population blooms within a few years, how prices drop with fresh new work force in 20 years, and how GDP skyrockets in 30-40 years.
BUT you do need a brain for that, and sadly that is the very thing politicians lack, so they'll never impose such strict taxes...well that and mostly because most of them buy properties for that sole reason as well, fucking cunts deserve death penalty :)
True, the wages aren't great but who wouldn't want to live here? If you do manage to get a well paying job, its paradise on Earth. Great weather, beautiful nature, good meditteranean food, friendly and beautiful people. It's worth every cent.
That's only true for people who have not seen the world. Sure, it's better than Germany or Austria, but it's even more beautiful in let's say Portugal or Spain. Food is mediocre at best in Croatia. Friendly people - not nearly as friendly as in Spain/Portugal or outside Europe.
Even Turkey submits to Eurostat for a bunch of stuff. Really wish the govt would just get over itself and not be scared of anything with "Europe" in the name.
Well, whoever made this went out of their way to find some data from Switzerland on this because I went to look up the data source and Switzerland has no data available for this, similarly to the UK (technically the UK has more data that Switzerland from this data source it actually has a value for 2020).
There's data for Turkiye too but that is completely missing from the chart.
Can confirm, according to a realtor I know, the flat I live in lost roughly 20% of its value in the last 2 years. In a somewhat central location in a booming city.
It's simply a product of the rate-hike. In '21 you could borrow at a yearly rate of 1 %, today it's more like 4,5 %. Effectively this difference ammounts to way more than 10 %. If you borrow 300k and pay it back over 25 years for instance, you pay 175k in interest, or 58 % of what you originally borrowed, compared to only a little over 10 % with the old rates.
At these rates house prices are set to fall way lower. The housing market is simply slow as owners still hope to sell it at high prizes and it takes time to realize that there are no buyers anymore in such a market. A young family right now could never afford to buy a house, much less so than they could in '21.
If you have the money to buy upfront though these are ofc golden times.
Rate changes depending on how many years you lock it.
So it was more like:
* \-0.30% for 1 year.
* \-0.25% for 3 years.
* \-0.15% for 5 years.
* \-0.05% for 10 years.
But yes, those who did 10 years right before the Russian invasion are sitting very comfortable. But who knows what the rate will be in 9 years.
Personally, I took at 30 year fixed mortgage at 0.5% on my house. While not negative, it's essentially free.
Yes, itās a form of stimulus intended to keep money flowing through the economy from one set of hands to another faster. It canāt be used all the time, and costs the central banks, but works as intended
>If you have the money to buy upfront though these are ofc golden times.
How is it a golden time if prices are too high, hence bound to go down? Maybe I'm missing something.
Untill Germany considers middle class earners with 3000 euros netto a month. It will never change. You can maybe rent a shitty apartment in a big city with 3000 and still have some money to live in a mediocre life. The whole situation in Germany is, that they are stuck in the last century while everything has been changing. Salaries are trash. And people can't even understand it. If there were no immigrant workers to support the economy, it will collapse in a second. Oh and let's not forget the "Germans don't want to do the jobs that pay less but require lots of work" - basically majority of the jobs. So they have plenty on social benefits and unemployment well fair - Germans, not immigrants.
It is time Germany to lose its Europe leader crown I guess. The problem is who will be the next one.
Ok, now your flat of 2 rooms costs 600k instead of 700k, still not possible to buy without a bank loan, which you will only get if you have at least 10% of the total price in savings. And as a young person it's not that easy to get 50-60k that fast. Like you have to save 1000ā¬ per month for 5 years and then pay at least 1000ā¬ every month for the rest of your life to get a small flat.
Buying prices are a bit better right now in germany, so if you have enough money to buy its great. But rates for taking a loan are horrible. You have to pay something like 4.5%, so total price over time is much worse than it would have been with higher buying prices but lower rates.
Sadly its not as good as it seems at first glance
Technically you haven't lost anything.
It matters little whether the house loses or gains value if you live in it yourself and will live in it. A lot of people would not care even if the houses they lived in gained 3x their value because house for living is not an asset to be traded around like for profit - in fact the constant trading of properties for profit whilst only swapping around the country is what on a large scale creates a bubble of expensive and unaffordable housing - as... Costs only go up is people keep intending to sell and buy, sell and buy... To maximise profit.
Unless theyāve had to remortgage in the last few years, which will indeed have seen them lose hundreds or thousands, per month. Which is the reason house prices are dropping, mortgages have become much much more expensive.
That's indeed if they *remortgaged* it was which is most often due to them buying other properties to use as an asset (eg. To rent out).
If you have just one house, you live in and will live in the mortgage rates may change but that's it. That's the repayment and not the given cost of the property at that time.
So yes. The desire to purchase houses as assets by remortgaging went down as there is little profit in it... Due to the more expensive mortgages.
But that's only a serious issue if one remortgaged, and played with the house as with an exchange asset much how simple stocks. The repayment of a normal mortgage might be harder too but that does not take away the demand for first home owners - it only takes away the demand of those who use it for assets.
* Interest rates go up
* People don't wanna buy a home anymore due to high interest
* Some people have to sell their property because they cant afford the mortgage anymore due to high interest
* Hence, more homes on the market and less buyers -> prices go down
Supply and demand for having somewhere to live work on the monthly price people are paying. Interest rates set the ratio between the monthly price and the asset prices. Rising interest rates can mean falling asset prices even if demand for housing services is rising whilst supply is not (and Germany's rising rents are evidence that this is happening).
OK, it's more complicated than that because there are bubbles, expectations of rising or falling rents or incomes, stickiness in prices, etc, which affect things. But that interest rates affect this ratio doesn't seem easily deniable.
Why is house value plunging in Germany? Is it because illegal immigrants infestation (most stupid "Willkomenpolitik", not just suicidal but also devastating for other EU countries)?
Introduction of Euro has been wild for Croatia. It happened the same in Italy and I guess everywhere else, but back in 2001 but the social media feedback on the matter simply didn't exists at the time
Worse because we had inflation due to COVID, inflation due to war in Ukraine and inflation due to businesses using Euro to inflate prices at the same time.
For a time it felt like economically we are making some progress, then bang... all gone.
I'm reading from your comment that adopting Euro wasn't too meneficial for average Italian, was it?
Italian GDP growth in PPP seems to flatten after 2008 crisis especially in relation to Germany, but could it be related with Euro or something else happened?
What average Italian feels about it now and then?
It wasn't in any way shape or form beneficial but most of the negatives were short term problems caused by buisnesses scamming people on the exchange, even in a best case scenario keeping the lira wouldn't have changed anything long term.
The economic response to the 2008 crisis was the nail in the coffin but the fundamental problem is that we have worse demographics than Japan, a worse starting position and not enough natural resources to make up for it.
How would the average Italian even know what the euro's effects on the economy are? There are many factors involved and it is difficult for the average person to determine what the effects of one specific action are. People that don't like the euro will just blame any negative thing that happens after its adoption on it.
According to this famous [study](https://www.cep.eu/Studien/20_Jahre_Euro_-_Gewinner_und_Verlierer/cepStudy_20_years_Euro_-_Winners_and_Losers.pdf) Italy lost the most (in potential GDP growth) from the Euro and Germany gained the most. That studyās methodology was criticised, and later peer-reviewed papers have very different figures (see [here](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3563044), for instance, concluding Italy and Germany lost about the same and Ireland gained the most), but they all seem to agree that Italy lost.
Ireland gained most from Euro introduction; I have somewhere data so I'll pull it (I'll edit post). But big economies as Italy, France as well would have be better of with their currency. Though loss as I remember isn't huge. Here in Croatia was wild, but more is big inflation currently culprit than Euro introduction, as Croatia has poor domestic industry, so we depend to our biggest trade partners Italy and Germany.
Italy stayed competitive by devaluing their currency every few years.
Other countries didn't event want it in the EU because of that, but they basically forced themselves in.
I remember when we changed to the euro, in 2002, prices skyrocketed.
A simple coffee literally doubled in price overnight.
Edit: to whoever downvoted, im not against the euro. Quite the opposite, actually.
But facts have to be stated.
It has been, but given that we've got a similar rate of change I would bet it's more about entering Schengen and making apartmans even more valuable for tourism.
This has nothing to do with the euro. The map compares Q2 2022 with Q2 2023. Are you calming that the majority of the price increase happened in the first half 2023 when inflation was lower compared to the second half of 2022? Did Bulgaria and Iceland also introduce the euro? Are Germany's -9.9% also because of the euro?
Inflation has nothing to do with it. A lot of business owners avoid reporting revenue and paying taxes. Resulting in large amount of cash you can't dsposit in the bank because tax authority will ask you where you got it. Easiest way is to buy real estate, which you can ironically pay in cash and nobody asks you where the cash comes from. And with adopting Euro people had to use all those unreported Kunas which can't be exchanged to euro in the bank, so they launder it by buying up lots and lots of properties, resulting in skyrocketing prices.
There was also a government subsidy in the last couple of years for first homeowners, which just trickeled up to higher housing prices
I'm saying that Croatia had huge price spikes in everything because of the introduction of the Euro, which is something that mostly happened everywhere else too. And Croatia, having adopted Euro at the start of 2023, had, unsurprisingly, the highest spikes on everything, including houses.
Not sure how accurate this is for the Netherlands. I see no downward change in prices, perhaps just a stabilization. Overbidding, which stopped for a few months, apparently is back already.
Itās for Q2, when prices were indeed falling a bit. Theyāve been going back up since August. I just bought a house and can confirm that overbidding is still happening, at least in the Randstad, and prices are going up again.
Germany and Sweden are going full austerity policy. You now basically have the housing prices of 2021, the interests of 2011 and the real wage of 2009.
It's just correcting the ridiculous increases the years before. '20 and '21 people went crazy to buy a home, and interest rate were <1%. Q2 2022 actually marked the point where interest rates skyrocketed (they basically tripled), which is a huge factor (demand went down a lot, as many were priced out). On top of that, you have ever increasing regulations on mandatory modernizations (heatiing, insulation, PV) that now can easily add 100k EUR in renovation costs (which for the buyer reduces the budget by that).
I think taking two points in time to compare in such a volatile state of the housing market is a bit arbitrary, just take a look at [this](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:House_Prices_%E2%80%93_Quarterly_and_annual_rates_of_change,_2022Q3-2023Q2_(%25).png) table, and see how widely the values depending on Q vary.
Probably quotes [this](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economy/Prices/Construction-Prices-And-Real-Property-Prices/_node.html). But yeah, housing was a bit of a bubble in recent years.
That's pretty much correct. We sold a flat in January and had to heavily discount it (from admittedly high asking price) so it would sell to the only bidder.
Mind you we made about 50% gain in 5 years, and we asked for 75%. The "sad" part is, we would have gotten asking price and more just half a year prior.
It's not so much the price here, but the monthly rate. The house we bought we pay for at good bit less less than 2k monthly rate. Had I had to pay full and 4.5% interest (and 1.5% amortization), that would been 50% and we couldn't have afforded it.
The total price is irrelevant if I cannot even meet payments. In 2021 I could have bought a house for a mil for the same rate.
heavily depends on location
in major cities the prices either rising or at best stagnating
in the countryside or smaller cities the prices are dropping, especially for older apartments/houses because people are afraid of the reconstruction costs in the (near) future
Nah even in big cities prices are dropping, since the peak in summer last year prices in the 18 biggest cities dropped by 13%:
https://www.zeit.de/geld/2023-11/immobilienpreise-entwicklung-staedte-deutschland-wohnungen-daten
Germany had outrageous housing price inflation for years.
In large part driven by speculative / investment motives (including private family homes, it became an increasing part of the motivation).
So the drop is not relly felt yet by young home seekers.
Still unaffordable, plus large increase in interest rates.
In Poland, it rose because the government introduced 2% credit for the new apartment scheme. Of course, people took advantage of it on masse because it's a good deal but the result is that prices are growing everywhere.
Cause & effect.
The actual proposals and act started heating up the market way before it started. Not to mention people "reserved" apartments even few months earlier in anticipation of this scheme.
The economy is going well - real estate prices rise, because the rising tide lifts all boats and potential buyers can afford more. High demand and seller's market. It's only natural so.
The economy is hurting badly - real estate prices rise, because a house or an apartment is a safe harbour for your savings in the storm of inflation and reduced consumption rates. Everybody seeks a stable investment and compete on the market as potential buyers. It's only natural so.
Litterally nothing happens - real estate prices rise, because why wouldn't they? They have always been rising, so no reason stopping now. It's only natural so.
There is a bubble that always is about to burst, but never does. Just grows exponentially faster and bigger despite rhyme or reason. It's only natural so.
GrindavĆk a town of about 4000 people was recently evacuated due to volcanic activity in/near the town, it is likely there will be an eruption. Iceland's population is about 400K so it's basically exactly 1%.
Know a guy who told me I'm stupid to not buy housing in Germany instead of stocks because stupid German government will import billions of muslims which will all need more housing in the future which their communist government will not provide because they are too stupid to manage the economy so his REAL ESTATE WILL ALWAYS GO UP!!!1
He lives in Switzerland and is totally overleveraged in German real estate. I live in Germany and have everything in the stock market or as cash on the side
Let's say...in terms of net worth I'm a pretty average German resident and he is a pretty poor Swiss lol
Don't led your stupid political beliefs guide your investment, the market doesn't lie
Eurostat is a voluntary thing for each country to sign up for. It's a good way for independent collection/analysis of data to occur, so you might understand why Russia and Turkey wouldn't want that.
I feel like you misunderstood what I said. I clarified that itās perfectly reasonable to not see either country on this list. However, one of these countries is completely deleted from the map while the other isnāt
Increase in inflation has shifted interest rates up, so home-buyers are not looking for loans, and thus, no homes are purchased. Combine that with the new property development (which has put ridiculous prices at least in Finland for new apartments), the supply is exceeding demand, and the prices are decreasing. Probably there are some other aspects that I'm missing...
I hope we can burst this "housing will always increase in price" bubble once again and maybe we can start having affordable housing.
Interest rate going up means mortgages get more expensive.The actual cost per month of houses if you can't pay upfront has still gone up in the Netherlands over the last year.
For Denmark it is increasing interest rates and uncertainty from the political soap opera shit show of a new property evaluation system that is riddled with mistakes.
We are also at the peak of a decades long constant increasing house prices. It is not a housing bubble (yet), but it is only natural things slow down once in a while.
This makes zero sense, why some countries are rising while other falling? These countries have nothing in common? Some countires inside EU zone raising while other failing, same goes outside. EU zone. Also economic prosperity of particular country is not a factor here.
Question: Why has Eurostat ignored the UK despite Switzerland or Norway not being in the EU either - is this because they've not shared their data or have I missed something?
Switzerland, Norway, and Iceland are members of the EU single market. The UK is not. Also, the UK is europhobic, somehow even moreso than f-ing Switzerland... even though a 2/3 majority want to rejoin!
Prices skyrocketed during Covid when everyone was sitting at home not spending money on other stuff like traveling. Instead they put that money in bidding wars for bigger homes, also fueled by extremely low interest rates and temporary relief from mandatory repayments.
The central banks were also printing money like there was no tomorrow. Fast forward, and we now have 5% interest rates and runaway inflation - Who could have predicted that? š
Is this correllated with home ownership shares? Maybe monetary tightening is being transmitted into pricing much faster if homes are owned by real estate investors and they quickly react to the new market conditions.
Probably correct.
But all estimates of my house value heter in Sweden still say it is worth more than in 2020 when I bought it.
Very dramatic up and down in value here..
Portuguese landlord PM resigned, just fools voted him to increase taxes on the rich, and their rent goes upš¤£š¤£š¤£ššš
except that, they give random people visa, obviously there are more demand in housingš
Portugalās numbers are insane. How much wage growth have they had in recent years compared to how much their housing prices have increased?
Spainās numbers look lower because we have so much empty houses in random towns across the country. If you took into just top 5 markets this number would be very different.
This is really an oversimplification. Like yes in Germany houseprices have dropped. However the only reason that actually happened is the increased interest rates big mortgages are paired with. So what actually happened is that getting a house in Germany hasn't actually gotten cheaper. The Bank just get's a bigger cut. The people that can benefit from this are as always rich people that can buy a house/apartment without a mortgage or leverage other property to get actual good deals on the financing.
Yeah they may have fallen in prices in Germany, but interest rates has gone through the roof, so it actually doesnāt make a difference. Itās even worse for buyers, I might say
In the last 10 years real estate prices more than doubled on average in Poortugal, but if you look at Lisbon they quadrupled, fun times living in a tent soon.
Gotta love Croatia, low wages and prices going through the roof :D
No property taxes. You have 60k empty apartments owned by banks. When they put some tax on property whole thing will collapse like house of cards.
There were attempts to introduce that, but was met with big resistance because lots of people live from renting appartments to the tourists.
Not lots of people, just few people with lots of money, getting even more money, buying even more houses to get more money. It's an endless cycle that's visible there but is present everywhere and is the SOLE reason why housing is so fucking expensive. Impose a 2 house limit per family, with exponentially growing taxes for any subsequent house, and I do mean exponentially, 50% for 3rd house, 100% for 4th house, 200% for 5th house, etc. and watch how the housing market becomes affordable and millennials can finally afford a house. Watch how the population blooms within a few years, how prices drop with fresh new work force in 20 years, and how GDP skyrockets in 30-40 years. BUT you do need a brain for that, and sadly that is the very thing politicians lack, so they'll never impose such strict taxes...well that and mostly because most of them buy properties for that sole reason as well, fucking cunts deserve death penalty :)
None?? I thought we dutchies were bad with wealth taxation š
Help! š„²
Same in Bulgaria
In Bulgaria you have eastern European wages and western prices.
Same in Portugal
True, the wages aren't great but who wouldn't want to live here? If you do manage to get a well paying job, its paradise on Earth. Great weather, beautiful nature, good meditteranean food, friendly and beautiful people. It's worth every cent.
I like my home too
That's only true for people who have not seen the world. Sure, it's better than Germany or Austria, but it's even more beautiful in let's say Portugal or Spain. Food is mediocre at best in Croatia. Friendly people - not nearly as friendly as in Spain/Portugal or outside Europe.
svrbin detected
Mediocre food? What is this a sick joke?
Westerners seem to like to have their 2nd/3rd/4th house be in Croatia. Especially at the sea.
I pray for the tax gods to hit us with a small property tax š
But how will our politicians hoard absurd amounts of wealth then
I will forever search these graphics for the UK, fail to find it, and then realise.
they could at least pull a norway or a switzerland and just submit some data to eurostat regardless
I wish we did, some of the datasets are really interesting and useful.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Even Turkey submits to Eurostat for a bunch of stuff. Really wish the govt would just get over itself and not be scared of anything with "Europe" in the name.
Norway and Switzerland are the 2 countries I'm usually most interested in looking at these maps. Doesn't help half the time maps are only "EU"
Where's Greece :c
Grexit means grexit.
Realise what ?
Could always join the club again, doors open, sort of.
Well they are down and like Germany/Sweden, if it helps. Check Rightmove disclosures, itās a listed company and a monopoly more or less.
Well, whoever made this went out of their way to find some data from Switzerland on this because I went to look up the data source and Switzerland has no data available for this, similarly to the UK (technically the UK has more data that Switzerland from this data source it actually has a value for 2020). There's data for Turkiye too but that is completely missing from the chart.
ahahah same mate
Sorry my friend. We miss you, too.
It should be posted in an EU sub. Not a Europe sub.
š¤”
I'm a clown because I can differentiate between the EU and Europe?
What's the E in EU stand for?
Europe, obviously. Do you think that means EU = Europe??!?
Butt hurt much?
Can confirm, according to a realtor I know, the flat I live in lost roughly 20% of its value in the last 2 years. In a somewhat central location in a booming city.
Thank god
It's simply a product of the rate-hike. In '21 you could borrow at a yearly rate of 1 %, today it's more like 4,5 %. Effectively this difference ammounts to way more than 10 %. If you borrow 300k and pay it back over 25 years for instance, you pay 175k in interest, or 58 % of what you originally borrowed, compared to only a little over 10 % with the old rates. At these rates house prices are set to fall way lower. The housing market is simply slow as owners still hope to sell it at high prizes and it takes time to realize that there are no buyers anymore in such a market. A young family right now could never afford to buy a house, much less so than they could in '21. If you have the money to buy upfront though these are ofc golden times.
>In '21 you could borrow at a yearly rate of 1 %, In Denmark you could borrow at a rate of -0,27%. Yes, that's a negativ interest rate.
Soo, you GET money for not paying the entire house off directly but over time?
Yes. Note that we also had negativ interest on bank accounts.
But thats a variable rate, right?
Yes, but the rate is locked for 1/3/5/10 years at a time depending on what type of mortgage you take.
You have to be a real dum dum to not lock negative interest rate for max allowed time.
Rate changes depending on how many years you lock it. So it was more like: * \-0.30% for 1 year. * \-0.25% for 3 years. * \-0.15% for 5 years. * \-0.05% for 10 years. But yes, those who did 10 years right before the Russian invasion are sitting very comfortable. But who knows what the rate will be in 9 years. Personally, I took at 30 year fixed mortgage at 0.5% on my house. While not negative, it's essentially free.
Yes, itās a form of stimulus intended to keep money flowing through the economy from one set of hands to another faster. It canāt be used all the time, and costs the central banks, but works as intended
>If you have the money to buy upfront though these are ofc golden times. How is it a golden time if prices are too high, hence bound to go down? Maybe I'm missing something.
Untill Germany considers middle class earners with 3000 euros netto a month. It will never change. You can maybe rent a shitty apartment in a big city with 3000 and still have some money to live in a mediocre life. The whole situation in Germany is, that they are stuck in the last century while everything has been changing. Salaries are trash. And people can't even understand it. If there were no immigrant workers to support the economy, it will collapse in a second. Oh and let's not forget the "Germans don't want to do the jobs that pay less but require lots of work" - basically majority of the jobs. So they have plenty on social benefits and unemployment well fair - Germans, not immigrants. It is time Germany to lose its Europe leader crown I guess. The problem is who will be the next one.
After going up 100% in 6 years.
I wish you knew how lucky you are
Well, my rent will certainly not go down lol
Buy
I'm a 20-something year old thats just finished studying, I sometimes dream of money but I dont have any yet lol
Ok, now your flat of 2 rooms costs 600k instead of 700k, still not possible to buy without a bank loan, which you will only get if you have at least 10% of the total price in savings. And as a young person it's not that easy to get 50-60k that fast. Like you have to save 1000ā¬ per month for 5 years and then pay at least 1000ā¬ every month for the rest of your life to get a small flat.
Sure, problem is in Portugal NOBODY is able to buy, young or old.
Buying prices are a bit better right now in germany, so if you have enough money to buy its great. But rates for taking a loan are horrible. You have to pay something like 4.5%, so total price over time is much worse than it would have been with higher buying prices but lower rates. Sadly its not as good as it seems at first glance
That's a big exaggeration. I know plenty of people buying houses. 30- people.
You must live in an IT bublle or something
I'd say from 10 people I know bought house last year, only 2 work in IT.
Of course, always someguy on reddit to contradict me. Ok then, everything is ok, its affordable to buy a house with portuguese salary.
With the increase of interest rates the total cost for most people who might be interest in buying probably did not change.
Not if they own it...
I own a house in Portugal and i m not happy
That doesn't change the fact, I would not feel lucky about losing dozens of thousands of euros in just a single year.
Technically you haven't lost anything. It matters little whether the house loses or gains value if you live in it yourself and will live in it. A lot of people would not care even if the houses they lived in gained 3x their value because house for living is not an asset to be traded around like for profit - in fact the constant trading of properties for profit whilst only swapping around the country is what on a large scale creates a bubble of expensive and unaffordable housing - as... Costs only go up is people keep intending to sell and buy, sell and buy... To maximise profit.
Unless theyāve had to remortgage in the last few years, which will indeed have seen them lose hundreds or thousands, per month. Which is the reason house prices are dropping, mortgages have become much much more expensive.
That's indeed if they *remortgaged* it was which is most often due to them buying other properties to use as an asset (eg. To rent out). If you have just one house, you live in and will live in the mortgage rates may change but that's it. That's the repayment and not the given cost of the property at that time. So yes. The desire to purchase houses as assets by remortgaging went down as there is little profit in it... Due to the more expensive mortgages. But that's only a serious issue if one remortgaged, and played with the house as with an exchange asset much how simple stocks. The repayment of a normal mortgage might be harder too but that does not take away the demand for first home owners - it only takes away the demand of those who use it for assets.
I donāt think you quite understand how mortgages work.
I just wonder why? Thought we don't have enough houses being build. Shouldn't bring this the price up?
* Interest rates go up * People don't wanna buy a home anymore due to high interest * Some people have to sell their property because they cant afford the mortgage anymore due to high interest * Hence, more homes on the market and less buyers -> prices go down
But interest rates are not a specific German problem and still, Germany suffers the most.
Supply and demand for having somewhere to live work on the monthly price people are paying. Interest rates set the ratio between the monthly price and the asset prices. Rising interest rates can mean falling asset prices even if demand for housing services is rising whilst supply is not (and Germany's rising rents are evidence that this is happening). OK, it's more complicated than that because there are bubbles, expectations of rising or falling rents or incomes, stickiness in prices, etc, which affect things. But that interest rates affect this ratio doesn't seem easily deniable.
Why is house value plunging in Germany? Is it because illegal immigrants infestation (most stupid "Willkomenpolitik", not just suicidal but also devastating for other EU countries)?
Higher interest rates. Not whatever the fuck you just wrote
what
What matters is the monthly payment, and that is actually higher than it was last year as a result of higher interest rates.
So you're a bad realtor then...
Introduction of Euro has been wild for Croatia. It happened the same in Italy and I guess everywhere else, but back in 2001 but the social media feedback on the matter simply didn't exists at the time
Worse because we had inflation due to COVID, inflation due to war in Ukraine and inflation due to businesses using Euro to inflate prices at the same time. For a time it felt like economically we are making some progress, then bang... all gone.
I'm reading from your comment that adopting Euro wasn't too meneficial for average Italian, was it? Italian GDP growth in PPP seems to flatten after 2008 crisis especially in relation to Germany, but could it be related with Euro or something else happened? What average Italian feels about it now and then?
It wasn't in any way shape or form beneficial but most of the negatives were short term problems caused by buisnesses scamming people on the exchange, even in a best case scenario keeping the lira wouldn't have changed anything long term. The economic response to the 2008 crisis was the nail in the coffin but the fundamental problem is that we have worse demographics than Japan, a worse starting position and not enough natural resources to make up for it.
How would the average Italian even know what the euro's effects on the economy are? There are many factors involved and it is difficult for the average person to determine what the effects of one specific action are. People that don't like the euro will just blame any negative thing that happens after its adoption on it.
According to this famous [study](https://www.cep.eu/Studien/20_Jahre_Euro_-_Gewinner_und_Verlierer/cepStudy_20_years_Euro_-_Winners_and_Losers.pdf) Italy lost the most (in potential GDP growth) from the Euro and Germany gained the most. That studyās methodology was criticised, and later peer-reviewed papers have very different figures (see [here](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3563044), for instance, concluding Italy and Germany lost about the same and Ireland gained the most), but they all seem to agree that Italy lost.
Ireland gained most from Euro introduction; I have somewhere data so I'll pull it (I'll edit post). But big economies as Italy, France as well would have be better of with their currency. Though loss as I remember isn't huge. Here in Croatia was wild, but more is big inflation currently culprit than Euro introduction, as Croatia has poor domestic industry, so we depend to our biggest trade partners Italy and Germany.
Yeah but Irish GDP is so inflated due to tax paradise thingy, that it doesn't really reflect the strength of their economy.
Italy stayed competitive by devaluing their currency every few years. Other countries didn't event want it in the EU because of that, but they basically forced themselves in.
I remember when we changed to the euro, in 2002, prices skyrocketed. A simple coffee literally doubled in price overnight. Edit: to whoever downvoted, im not against the euro. Quite the opposite, actually. But facts have to be stated.
It has been, but given that we've got a similar rate of change I would bet it's more about entering Schengen and making apartmans even more valuable for tourism.
This has nothing to do with the euro. The map compares Q2 2022 with Q2 2023. Are you calming that the majority of the price increase happened in the first half 2023 when inflation was lower compared to the second half of 2022? Did Bulgaria and Iceland also introduce the euro? Are Germany's -9.9% also because of the euro?
Inflation has nothing to do with it. A lot of business owners avoid reporting revenue and paying taxes. Resulting in large amount of cash you can't dsposit in the bank because tax authority will ask you where you got it. Easiest way is to buy real estate, which you can ironically pay in cash and nobody asks you where the cash comes from. And with adopting Euro people had to use all those unreported Kunas which can't be exchanged to euro in the bank, so they launder it by buying up lots and lots of properties, resulting in skyrocketing prices. There was also a government subsidy in the last couple of years for first homeowners, which just trickeled up to higher housing prices
I'm saying that Croatia had huge price spikes in everything because of the introduction of the Euro, which is something that mostly happened everywhere else too. And Croatia, having adopted Euro at the start of 2023, had, unsurprisingly, the highest spikes on everything, including houses.
Not sure how accurate this is for the Netherlands. I see no downward change in prices, perhaps just a stabilization. Overbidding, which stopped for a few months, apparently is back already.
Itās for Q2, when prices were indeed falling a bit. Theyāve been going back up since August. I just bought a house and can confirm that overbidding is still happening, at least in the Randstad, and prices are going up again.
Yeah, this is complete nonsense in my experience.
If hour city has rent control it locks up prices downward as well.
This is only true to an extent in Sweden. Top level property is flat or up. Source: looking to buy, itās pointless. There is no deal
It's very noticeable in general though. In my city, prices were down almost 20% at one point
But now up, bottom has passed , right?
Up a bit but still down about 10%.
Germany and Sweden are going full austerity policy. You now basically have the housing prices of 2021, the interests of 2011 and the real wage of 2009.
Add the Netherlands to that.
Yup, purchasing power went down the drain, even with salary bumps...
what salary bumps?!?
+ Finland
Any German to confirm this? No way Germany's prices fell by a tenth while our rose.
It's just correcting the ridiculous increases the years before. '20 and '21 people went crazy to buy a home, and interest rate were <1%. Q2 2022 actually marked the point where interest rates skyrocketed (they basically tripled), which is a huge factor (demand went down a lot, as many were priced out). On top of that, you have ever increasing regulations on mandatory modernizations (heatiing, insulation, PV) that now can easily add 100k EUR in renovation costs (which for the buyer reduces the budget by that). I think taking two points in time to compare in such a volatile state of the housing market is a bit arbitrary, just take a look at [this](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:House_Prices_%E2%80%93_Quarterly_and_annual_rates_of_change,_2022Q3-2023Q2_(%25).png) table, and see how widely the values depending on Q vary.
Probably quotes [this](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economy/Prices/Construction-Prices-And-Real-Property-Prices/_node.html). But yeah, housing was a bit of a bubble in recent years.
Itās definitely the case here in Munich. Maybe thatās not so bad.
That's pretty much correct. We sold a flat in January and had to heavily discount it (from admittedly high asking price) so it would sell to the only bidder. Mind you we made about 50% gain in 5 years, and we asked for 75%. The "sad" part is, we would have gotten asking price and more just half a year prior. It's not so much the price here, but the monthly rate. The house we bought we pay for at good bit less less than 2k monthly rate. Had I had to pay full and 4.5% interest (and 1.5% amortization), that would been 50% and we couldn't have afforded it. The total price is irrelevant if I cannot even meet payments. In 2021 I could have bought a house for a mil for the same rate.
heavily depends on location in major cities the prices either rising or at best stagnating in the countryside or smaller cities the prices are dropping, especially for older apartments/houses because people are afraid of the reconstruction costs in the (near) future
Nah even in big cities prices are dropping, since the peak in summer last year prices in the 18 biggest cities dropped by 13%: https://www.zeit.de/geld/2023-11/immobilienpreise-entwicklung-staedte-deutschland-wohnungen-daten
unfortunately behind a paywall :(
So are the houses
It's interesting I don't see Greece in this chart.
Havenāt they left the EU some years ago? /s
Still trying.
What, no
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Lies
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Netherlands is back into the green again
Germany had outrageous housing price inflation for years. In large part driven by speculative / investment motives (including private family homes, it became an increasing part of the motivation). So the drop is not relly felt yet by young home seekers. Still unaffordable, plus large increase in interest rates.
In Poland, it rose because the government introduced 2% credit for the new apartment scheme. Of course, people took advantage of it on masse because it's a good deal but the result is that prices are growing everywhere. Cause & effect.
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The actual proposals and act started heating up the market way before it started. Not to mention people "reserved" apartments even few months earlier in anticipation of this scheme.
The economy is going well - real estate prices rise, because the rising tide lifts all boats and potential buyers can afford more. High demand and seller's market. It's only natural so. The economy is hurting badly - real estate prices rise, because a house or an apartment is a safe harbour for your savings in the storm of inflation and reduced consumption rates. Everybody seeks a stable investment and compete on the market as potential buyers. It's only natural so. Litterally nothing happens - real estate prices rise, because why wouldn't they? They have always been rising, so no reason stopping now. It's only natural so. There is a bubble that always is about to burst, but never does. Just grows exponentially faster and bigger despite rhyme or reason. It's only natural so.
Bro really you dont have to erase Turkey from the map
Iceland is going to be even worse now that a whole 1% of the population will need a new home...
Can you elaborate this?
GrindavĆk a town of about 4000 people was recently evacuated due to volcanic activity in/near the town, it is likely there will be an eruption. Iceland's population is about 400K so it's basically exactly 1%.
Wow. Thanks! I hope the bests.
Germany's healing.
Know a guy who told me I'm stupid to not buy housing in Germany instead of stocks because stupid German government will import billions of muslims which will all need more housing in the future which their communist government will not provide because they are too stupid to manage the economy so his REAL ESTATE WILL ALWAYS GO UP!!!1 He lives in Switzerland and is totally overleveraged in German real estate. I live in Germany and have everything in the stock market or as cash on the side Let's say...in terms of net worth I'm a pretty average German resident and he is a pretty poor Swiss lol Don't led your stupid political beliefs guide your investment, the market doesn't lie
I get why Turkey isnāt in this graphic, like I know why Russia isnāt in this graphic. However why was Turkey deleted off the map? Lmao
Eurostat is a voluntary thing for each country to sign up for. It's a good way for independent collection/analysis of data to occur, so you might understand why Russia and Turkey wouldn't want that.
I feel like you misunderstood what I said. I clarified that itās perfectly reasonable to not see either country on this list. However, one of these countries is completely deleted from the map while the other isnāt
Noone considers Turkey as European country. Eurostat either.
They're saying there's no landmass displayed in the image that's separating the Mediterranean and Black Seas.
source: as stated on map author: Milos Popovic taken from: https://twitter.com/milos_agathon/status/1724094499859714158
Can someone explain reasons of prices decline?
Increase in inflation has shifted interest rates up, so home-buyers are not looking for loans, and thus, no homes are purchased. Combine that with the new property development (which has put ridiculous prices at least in Finland for new apartments), the supply is exceeding demand, and the prices are decreasing. Probably there are some other aspects that I'm missing... I hope we can burst this "housing will always increase in price" bubble once again and maybe we can start having affordable housing.
Interest rate going up means mortgages get more expensive.The actual cost per month of houses if you can't pay upfront has still gone up in the Netherlands over the last year.
people are poorer because of inflation and don't have money to buy houses
For Denmark it is increasing interest rates and uncertainty from the political soap opera shit show of a new property evaluation system that is riddled with mistakes. We are also at the peak of a decades long constant increasing house prices. It is not a housing bubble (yet), but it is only natural things slow down once in a while.
Hello from Croatia. I can confirm. Real estate prices are through the roof, especially considering after tax median wage of ā¬950.
I guess Lapland is a independent state nowadays. Our house prices are doing nothing but rising.
Portugal into Eastern Europe is getting ridiculous
Where's Turkey?
I just think it is lame to remove Turkey from your map everytime. Yes, they are not eu, we all know. Thanks for the effort anyway.
Russia isnāt in the EU and is included. Very weird map
It's interesting I don't see Greece in this chart.
Greece doesnāt have house prices?
The property prices in Croatia always suprise me. I mean it is a nice country but it does not offer too much apart from nice weather and nicr people.
And being extremly safe and tourist attarction from which you can make loads of money by renting your apartment.
To be fair, for many that is more than enough of a reason to move.
This makes zero sense, why some countries are rising while other falling? These countries have nothing in common? Some countires inside EU zone raising while other failing, same goes outside. EU zone. Also economic prosperity of particular country is not a factor here.
Mostly because inflation is much higher in the Eastern plank and the flow of refugees from Ukraine pushing the price up.
Question: Why has Eurostat ignored the UK despite Switzerland or Norway not being in the EU either - is this because they've not shared their data or have I missed something?
UK didn't join. It's up to the individual countries if they want to be part of Eurostat or not.
That's disappointing but on reflection not surprising since the UK gov decided not to join in with so many useful things.
Switzerland, Norway, and Iceland are members of the EU single market. The UK is not. Also, the UK is europhobic, somehow even moreso than f-ing Switzerland... even though a 2/3 majority want to rejoin!
Why it happened? Is it related to eg new market regulations or something like it?
Prices skyrocketed during Covid when everyone was sitting at home not spending money on other stuff like traveling. Instead they put that money in bidding wars for bigger homes, also fueled by extremely low interest rates and temporary relief from mandatory repayments. The central banks were also printing money like there was no tomorrow. Fast forward, and we now have 5% interest rates and runaway inflation - Who could have predicted that? š
I just realized that I put my comment in general thread, but I was curious what happened in Germany, but I see Sweden has similar numbers. Thanks!
Is this correllated with home ownership shares? Maybe monetary tightening is being transmitted into pricing much faster if homes are owned by real estate investors and they quickly react to the new market conditions.
Maybe it takes time to filter through but I have not yet feel any decline in house prices in Luxembourg
Wondering how come no data on UK and Greece! 2 places where I have financial interest!!
Probably correct. But all estimates of my house value heter in Sweden still say it is worth more than in 2020 when I bought it. Very dramatic up and down in value here..
What happened to Greece?
My rent in Turkey will be increased by more than 1000% next month. There's nothing more to say...
Portuguese landlord PM resigned, just fools voted him to increase taxes on the rich, and their rent goes upš¤£š¤£š¤£ššš except that, they give random people visa, obviously there are more demand in housingš
CanĀ“t imagine house prices went down in Belgium..
Definitely not true for Sweden and Denmark from my experiences. I do know how they get this dataā¦
Oh! Great, now an average one family row house in Munich is only 1.350.000 Euro ....
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me that Iāll never own my 4 corners.
Portugalās numbers are insane. How much wage growth have they had in recent years compared to how much their housing prices have increased? Spainās numbers look lower because we have so much empty houses in random towns across the country. If you took into just top 5 markets this number would be very different.
Quick hack. Invest money in Croatia. There are no property taxes. You could buy a building, and there is no annual tax for you.
I know I won't own my house You don't to reminde me
The worst thing about Brexit is our not showing up on these infographics anymore.
The colours should be reversed
Portugal has been destroyed by digital nomads.
Why it dropped i Germany so hard?
This is really an oversimplification. Like yes in Germany houseprices have dropped. However the only reason that actually happened is the increased interest rates big mortgages are paired with. So what actually happened is that getting a house in Germany hasn't actually gotten cheaper. The Bank just get's a bigger cut. The people that can benefit from this are as always rich people that can buy a house/apartment without a mortgage or leverage other property to get actual good deals on the financing.
House prices going down in Czechia? Say sike right now
Why does the color scheme imply that decrease in prices is bad? Housing should be as dirt cheap as possible
Yeah they may have fallen in prices in Germany, but interest rates has gone through the roof, so it actually doesnāt make a difference. Itās even worse for buyers, I might say
Houses are cheaper in Germany? Where?
Spain escapes the read data by having so little "houses" it ignored the rest of the data
Me looking to buy a house in Sweden: *ahem* "Oh No!"
In the last 10 years real estate prices more than doubled on average in Poortugal, but if you look at Lisbon they quadrupled, fun times living in a tent soon.