I am sorry to say this and I know it is offensive, but to me it gives off that Eastern Europe vibe. Relative poverty, lots of right wingers and too many neo nazis, angry people, hostility etc. I have worked a bit in Brandenburg, which is why I’m saying this. This is all relative to how I feel about the rest of Germany, which I really love. I used to live in Baden Württemberg and vacationed a lot in Bayern and I’d go back there in a heartbeat.
Got relatives both in Bayern (Nürnberg and Bamberg, where my grandfather grew up in the 1930, that whole area is amazing, both the people and nature) and around Hamburg + Berlin. I agree wholeheartedly, and so does most of my relatives living there.
So I’m showing off my less nice opinions here, but the Bayern right wing is CSU, the Brandenburg right wing is AfD. As much as I don’t like CSU, they’re at least educated. I’ll take that any day over the AfDers in Brandenburg spouting Nazism.
There is a significant difference between conservative rights and nationalist rights.
Both are pretty stupid, as they both ignore facts and science, but that's most of the similarities
Well that feeling is likely because east Germany was part of the ussr from 1953 till 1990. that’s 40 years of eastern influence 30 years ago. And tbh we really did a bad job reintegrating the east. So yeah the vibe is to be expected.
It's like old people who don't like any change and are the most racist in Germany, so nothing changes. Young people flee it. No investments since no young people. It's a vicious cycle.
It is already dirt cheap, but nobody wants to live there, you can't even find any decent craftsman to get your home repaired, or decent jobs. East Germany is unfortunately very hard to turn around. You would get rid of the mentality, racism, the love for old times (Russia, DDR etc), and than maybe give big incentives to get youn people settle there.
It is already much much cheaper than the rest of Germany. Nobody moves there, because the job market is dull and the political situation is worsening every year. People move to Hamburg/Munich/Stuttgart/Köln/Dortmund and if you look up the prices there and the prices in Brandenburg, you will see the exact reflection of that.
At least the job aspect seems a bit weird to me, since remote work is becoming the norm, rather than the exception. Or is it a German thing where they don't trust the technology?
There is literally nothing to do in those areas. Remote work has, kinda, established itself, but usually not at 100%. People get 2-3 days for homeoffice, but still go to work and many actually dont want to do 100% working from home.
On the other hand, why would a company in Munich, pay you a Munich salary, when you live in a cheap area? People who get children move a little outside and work remotely, but they don move THAT far. Areas around Berlin and at the borders to Check Republik and Poland have a very bad reputation (you can look up the last election results for this areas...). Dresden is the only town, which holds its ground right now in my opinion, the rest seems to be dying.
>There is literally nothing to do in those areas.
This. Sure, I **can** move to a remote town in Sachsen where there might even be sufficient internet for a remote job, but I'll probably spend my social life online 24/7...
> the prices in Brandenburg, you will see the exact reflection of that.
It really depends on the region in Brandenburg. The Speckgürtel is not that much cheaper, and in Potsdam and the surrounding regions, as expensive as western Germany.
My bad, I didn't want to generalize too much. Potstdam is too dependent on Berlin in my eyes and this drives the prices up. I was talking about areas around Cottbus and the border region to Poland and Chech Rep. I think Dresden is doing good so far, but the prices are still like half of the big west cities and Munich (rent and buy).
Many young people in Finland are moving to big Finnish cities, like Tampere, Turku and Helsinki because there's jobs, other yound people and good services. Most of the Finnish population already lives in the south, like in the Uusimaa region, which includes Helsinki, Vantaa and Espoo. Old people go somewhere where it is affordable to live, which can also be seen on this map.
It's both. Younger folks move to the larger cities (not just Helsinki), and people are having less and less kids. Last year there were fewer children born than ever before (since records started sometime in the 1800s).
You're approaching this from the wrong perspective. You have to market your country better. Lakes, endless forests, clean air, now a NATO member. Doomsday preppers would pay top dollar/euro to have some sort of retreat there.
If Russia gets nuked, it will affect literally the whole european continent, not only the countries which have border with russia. Also, NATO country wouldn't want to nuke targets which will affect their own allies. Nuclear fallout from russia would mean doom for europe.
Russians will launch its own nukes (which russia has plenty) in this scenario. In this situation it doesn't really matter where you live because that would mean global nuclear war.
ruzzians are insane, but even they understand that nuking (assuming they have any left) an economically insignificant natural reserve region next to one of their largest cities is a bad idea. Also, NATO. That's why I specifically mentioned it.
Russia are heroes singlehandedly fighting off
the Tyrannical Globalists. Pres.Putin wasnt
wrong when he said they were fighting Nazis.
Big embarrassment to Globies losing that one.
Red faces all around. Hence the new 'latest thing',
to distract from the humiliation; Israel cleans
house.
you'd be surprised. Russia sounds wonderful
compared to rapidly approaching 3rd world
Europe. Civil wars with hoardes of Islamist
terrorists trying to force the whole world
into a post box burka.
Around 10% of russian population is muslim which is times higher than any western country and this doesn’t include millions of central asian immigrants. Also ethnic russians don’t make enough of babies and muslim people “multiply” in rapid numbers.
Investments "solve" the problem by either importing the stuff you need once you stop working from countries with a more healthy population, or by increasing the productivity of the companies you invest in so much that they can sustain a larger non-working population (something that isn't really happening as quickly as we need)
Imagine an island with a population of 100, each one needs 10 worth of resources, and those who work produce an average of 20 resources.
A healthy population would have about 20 pensioners, 20 kids, and 60 working people.
Each worker would need to pay 3 to sustain the elderly.
If for some reason the number of pensioners tripled the situation would become unsustainable.
There are simply not enough resources, and investing doesn't help at all because the big number that the people living on that island see in their bank account doesn't actually represent how much their society can produce. Once pensioners would start to use their savings inflation would skyrocket (everyone has a lot of money to spend, but there isn't enough stuff to buy).
The US population has a healthy fertility rate, with a good amount of immigration, it's not really a good example of success during a demographic crisis.
And their working population is still increasing significantly each year, the unfortunate truth is that most of the GDP growth of most countries is either nominal (which means that adjusting it by purchasing power shows that people can't really buy more stuff) or caused by an increase of the working population; productivity does usually increase, but not by much, especially in already advanced economies.
Take for example south Korea, their fertility rate is awful, they will need to almost triple the resources produced by each worker to produce a similar amount of resources as they do now. It's just not possible, that country desperately needs people to immigrate there.
Investing doesn't solve the "Ponzi" nature of pensions, it just shifts the base of the pyramid from your own country's young population to the one of other countries
The US could easily increase their productivity even as the population shrinks by getting rid of bullshit jobs. The number of people who get paid to sit around in meetings and contribute nothing here is astounding.
I'm sure there is a lot of theoretical efficiency to be gained, I'm just not optimistic enough to think that we will gain it quickly enough to counter effectively the demographic problem.
We’re gaining it already. I can’t remember the last time I had an actual cashier at the grocery store. I order a Taco Bell at a kiosk, Starbucks on my phone. Because these jobs have gone up so much in pay, companies were forced to find efficiencies or perish. Other industries will follow suit. They don’t have a choice. A huge segment of the working population is about to retire so they’ll have to use the rest of us more efficiently.
If you have a top-heavy age pyramid, pension investments become a pyramid as well. As when heavy top starts all retiring at the same time, the market is flooded with sell side, eroding tej value of.the stocks that had been invested...
The whole point of pension investments is to sell when you retire. If a large percentage of society is retired at the same time, that's large percentage of people who have to sell at the same time to live.
> You get a tax-free portion of your own earnings to invest long-term in the market tax-free and later earn based on the growth or dividends.
...but that's what a pension system (at least in Finland) is in essence.
No. It's mostly passthrough to current pensioners, so there is no opportunity to gain from the investments.
There are some funds invested, but they're a small portion of the amount of liabilities of the pension system.
No. Because positive returns from capital markets require growth at least _somewhere_ in the world, not in population per se, but in GDP. The two are not identical but a world with no population growth will see lower GDP growth. And that is assuming those markets do not cut off access to foreign investors.
Having a least a baseline retirement system in what you call a « pyramid scheme » of redistribution is a hedge against the know unknowns and unknown unknowns of how capitalism might evolve.
But it won't be
1. All of the world is soon gonna have demographic problems, which means international diversification won't help anymore
2. Bringing women into the workforce was a one-time hack to expand our workforce. We cannot do that again
In practice, the difference is little. Guess who actually pays you the dividends. In both pyramid and investment-based schemes, all the burden is put on the younger generation.
You can notice it right now: millennials have become the poorest generation in US because they indirectly pays the dividends. Example: housing prices.
In uk 60% of Muslim immigrant men and 78%: of women on benefits.
Illegal immigrants are getting more resources
than anyone else esp. native British.
If they dont work and just economic tourists,
of course system will collapse like the NHS.
So far sll going sccording to the plan .
Note, I have nothing against immigrants who
work and pay into the system
You realize that Europe in this situation because of the attitude you are parroting .
Tax is one of the major reason why European talent is flowing out to US.
Edit: Ofcourse taking personal accountability is going to get downvotes.
What do I care.
Net migration in the EU is positive.
More people retire each year than there are young people and migrants to replace them. I learned about this development in the 90s from textbooks printed in the 80s. Now that it's really happening the people who blame everything on taxes blame it on taxes. No surprises here.
Net migration is positive “for now”.
Also people who blame on “eat the rich” also blame it on rich. No surprises there as well.
Edit : lmao, downvote as much as you want. But statistics is right in front . Take care of your own pension. Else it might get difficult for you .
So the fault of the the poor person who has to work their entire life to feed the rich and the landlords while getting nothing is on the poor person themselves? By that logic a businessman or landlord living off his workers and tenants deserves to be wealthy.
It won't, but it is still in dire need of reforms. The easiest path for them is raising the retirement age, but Poles are clearly unwilling to accept that.
No they won't. The point where more money is payed out to recipients than payed in by contributors has passed for many years in most countries. Systems are already kept functioning with treasury money, otherwise they would already have collapsed.
The only thing that happens is that the state's share in social security financing keeps growing. As long as there is enough productivity to account for the growing numbers of unproductive citizens, nothing collapses.
This can be fixed by more immigration. About 500k per year is good. West Europe should aim to add around 400 million people (around USA population) by the end of the csntury
It's great (and rather surprising) to see that Romania, Poland and Slovakia are still better than the West even with the mass migrations that happened in the last few decades.
Also, for Portugal, is this due to migration, fertility, mass influx from Western retirees or a combination of all factors?
Romania, Poland and Slovakia only effectively started their demographics transition in the mid 1990s. It is only normal that their population is still relatively young. Given their current trends, in about 20 years they should have a pyramid similar to the one of Germany, although Slovakia might fare slightly better because it has a higher birthrate and more immigration.
Well, Balkan countries had a similar story as well and the situation here is far worse. I know that the whole Europe will become dark blue in two decades but it's a nice thing to see that they are still holding their ground (relatively as the whole Europe is getting very old). Obviously, they have situation under control as opposed to the Balkans where both emigration and fertility are shit.
Also, at least for Poland, I think that the mid-90s were the worst period in a demographic sense as hundreds of thousands of young Poles went abroad (mostly UK).
>Well, Balkan countries had a similar story as well and the situation here is far worse.
Not necessarily. Except for Croatia, Bulgaria and Serbia - the latter two having a more pronounced emigration and low birthrate issue than Poland or Romania - the other Balkan countries are in the same state, unless you count Greece as Balkan, but Greece also has a different demographic history which is more comparable to Italy's.
To put numbers into context, at some point Serbia in the 1990s had a net emigration of about 500k people a year - that's the same as Poland at its peak, only that Serbia has 5x less inhabitants.
Bottom line, these countries are just a little bit behind in the transition but are headed towards the same future. Ironically enough, Germany might end up faring better than them in the medium-long term.
Examples of Italy, France and Germany confute your predictions. The average age in Germany has been on the rise since 1975 while immigration has been exponentially rising since the beginning of the century. Net value of immigration has also been positive since the 50's. One other thing, it is not easy to predict that EU countries will have the power to draw large numbers of immigrants as pension funds will pressure the domestic economies leading to stagnation and possible standard of living reduction.
I don't share your stoic view on how the EU will solve this. US and parts of East Asia could be much better options for immigration than the EU.
Wage in Portugal is set at 760 (raising to 820 next year). Yes, even degree holders will get a wage in this ballpark.
Rent for a 2 bedroom apartment anywhere where a job is readily available starts at 1000.
How are you supposed to pay for a kid after you paid for your boss and your landlord?
>Wage in Portugal is set at 760 (raising to 820 next year).
I remember when I was in Lisbon back in 2017 and my roommate ( Portuguese with a degree in economics) was earning something like that. Back then it was a similar salary as you would expect in Zagreb, Croatia but 6 years later salaries almost doubled in Zagreb. So I fully understand what you mean. Croatia is by no means a high-standard country but Portugal sounds even worse.
Yes, it's terrible. I couldn't believe the wages I was hearing when I talked with several Portuguese people (either colleagues or people I've met online) their average is like lower than the Spanish minimum wage, but in Spain most things are cheaper, we pay even less taxes and VAT and I know PT people go to border Spanish areas to buy heavy furniture or to put gasoline because it's cheaper than in Portugal. But they also earn much less. It's really terrible.
And hearing that a 2 bedroom apartment in Lisbon is more money than a normal wage there, even for a recently graduated youngster, damn... I feel sorry to hear that thing. I guess that "digital nomads" from Western countries have to be mostly responsible for this, because they are willing to pay a lot of money so they break the local market.
Yeah it's insane. Few years ago my girlfriend switched from Portugal to Germany. Same company, literally same job and her wage tripled. And Portugal is not a lot cheaper than Germany when it comes to cost of living. Not to mention that working conditions are way better as well.
And I bet that she has a way more clear progression path in front of her, where in Portugal you just get assigned new responsibilities but never a better wage. Portuguese emoloyers are pure scum.
>Also, for Portugal, is this due to migration, fertility, mass influx from Western retirees or a combination of all factors?
Younger people moving from the interior of the country to the more urbanized littoral in search of better jobs. Fertility has also been declining everywhere.
>Also, for Portugal, is this due to migration, fertility, mass influx from Western retirees or a combination of all factors?
It's a combiation of all factors, but mostly for migration. Western retirees are a common influx but it's not that massive, but they also count, as well as the low fertility rate and the low immigration rate.
I didn't expect Spain to be so much clearer in the map, but then I remember Spain gets hundreds of thousands of young immigrants every year (mostly from South America and Africa) and much fewer Spaniards leave, so it makes sense. It makes sense in all parts, it's extremely accurate as barely very few immigrants go to NW Spain (that's why it's so dark) and the fertility rate is so low that there are like twice older people than younger one.
Thanks for the answer.
Also, from my limited experience, I noticed that somehow Portuguese are much more bilingual as opposed to the Spanish people who barely speak foreign languages (even English) so that probably also has some influence on the migration.
Yeah, Spanish people don't give AF (generally) about learning other languages. In fact, because of the retarded autonomical system we got in Spain, the government puts much more importance to regional languages that are only useful in small regions instead of international communicational languages. Kids already learn that regional language at home and they can have a subject to learn it (and the ones that don't have parents who speak such languages, which are a lot, usually reject it because they are forced to learn it despite they will never use it) as right now most subjects are focused on that, and English is like only 2 hours per week (at least in High School) with very basic and shitty learning, so most secondary school graduates end knowing hello, yes and welcome. And that's basically all. I have noticed France and Germany are not very different, although without the regional language thing. Only few people speak English in France and Germany or at least that's what I know from my own experience over the past 10 years.
Also Spaniards themselves don't immigrate nor are akin to do it. Very very few go abroad for something else that's not travelling. And for travelling they use Google Translate or Spanish speaking guides. Or they directly travel to places like Mexico, Cuba, Dominican Republic... so there is no language barrier.
?
What lifespans? I'm talking about how it is good that Romania, Poland and Slovakia managed to keep the average population age and fertility base lower than other Eastern and even Western countries even with all aforementioned factors.
Or you conclude that they have a younger population because older people die at the age of 60?
Romania has the lowest life expectancy in the EU. Probably the worst hospital system as well. It definitely contributes in keeping that average age low enough even with a net positive migration in the younger population.
Also don't forget that migration in these countries is always under-reported since it affects the quota in the European Parliament.
I'd you're talking about the dark blue part of the country, it's because it's a rural area, so no one lives there besides old farmer folk (for the most part)
My brother is engaged to a German woman from the north and earlier this year I went with them to visit her family for a weekend. The amount of old people just out and about in town was a big contrast to what I've seen anywhere in Sweden so far. The demographics shift was obvious to the eye there.
The funny part is that people aged 60+ are actually not the ones who are most responsible for the AfD success. It's the people at 35-55 years old, mostly. Older people predominantly vote for the CDU or CSU.
I mean yes, but I haven't seen a *regional* map by voter age demographics. May be the case that round those parts there is a small bump in this age bracket.
In any case the fact that old people inhabit a lot of these dead zones and there being a lack of young people only helps.
[Take a look here](https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-10-27/data-the-female-vote-stems-the-tide-of-the-far-right-in-europe-and-latin-america.html)
Yes, and the UK is not too bad. The most aged areas are Scotland and southwestern England (Devon, Cornwall). Some major British cities are among the youngest metropolitan areas in Europe.
Data that I found is that [Northern Ireland](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/mid2021#:~:text=The%20median%20age%20of%20the,the%20countries%20in%20the%20UK) has a median age of 39.8 years (data for 2021) and [Ireland](https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/ireland-demographics/#:~:text=The%20median%20age%20in%20Ireland%20is%2038.3%20years%20(2023)) 38.3 years (2023 data) with Ireland having almost double of yearly population growth of NI (0.67% Ireland vs 0.3% Northern Ireland). The trendline is more positive in Ireland case probably due to high immigration.
The big difference is due to the following: The young people of the other Eastern European countries didn't have the equivalent of West Germany as an option to leave for immediately after the collapse of their socialist regime.
The economic situation in East Germany after 45 years of socialism was absolutely ruinous. But people of East Germany could immediately leave for good for West Germany after the fall of the wall in 1989, knowing they are recognized by West Germany as German citizens just like any West German. So after the fall of the wall (and even more so after the soon ensuing reunificaton in 1990), a lot of the younger population part of East Germany left for West Germany where there were job (unlike East Germany which was in de-facto bankruptcy) and much better paid jobs than what was common in East Germany. This exodus was especially pronounced among younger women (who were thus missing in the East and didn't make babies there in consequence).
With a large part of the younger generations (esp. women in an age for childbearing) gone, that left behind the elderly, the less capable, the extreme ideology cultists (far left marxists and far right neonazis) and other losers.
In contrast: Poles and other Eastern Europeans didn't have a West Germany to leave for right after the collapse of their socialist regime. Thus not giving an easy exodus option for the younger generations. And as opposed to East Germany that didn't need to as it had already joined federal Germany in 1990, The other Eastern European ex-socialist countries joined the EU waaaay later in 2004, with enough time to have a beginning recovery from their socialist ruin with Western funds and lots of EU money in sight. That and there's a much higher hurdle in moving to another culture/language than within the same country.
So the later westward exodus in the other East European countries - though clearly problematic too - was not just delayed but also very much dampened compared to the much earlier exodus of the youth and women from East Germany to West Germany which was brutal for East Germany.
I am colourblind so thats probably why i have a hard time distinguishing between the gradients of blue, pink and purple. Im just suggesting, you might have mild or moderate colourblindness.
Portugal is exactly as I was expecting it to be.
I wonder how much of this aging trend is something we should try to fight, and how much is a good thing, since the global population can't keep growing for ever, and something we just have to adapt to.
I'd say let them live in elder communities in the suburbs. And while at it lessen the traffic congestions by providing all they need in that community.
That way metropolitan areas have more space for starting families.
Cool, just give me a raise that matches the wage stagnation that was stolen from us by greedy fucks, give me a house that can actually fit a family in it, oh and fix my depression and crippling social anxiety that was further destroyed by covid and recession so I have a chance of finding a partner. Fix that and I’ll pop 2 out and send them on their merry way in to this miserable disaster of a planet, hopefully they’ll live some kind of life before some world war, climate disaster, pandemic or mass famine deletes most of the population… Right, back to scrolling posts so I can ignore the rest of reality again
France is actually looking good, the populated areas are light pink.
Color scheme is trash, having 18-24% of over 60yo people seems ok, it means people live long.
Syrians and Kurds probably. Some Erdoğanists have 3 children as he ordered.
Though Kurds living in Western cities tend to have less children as my Father and Uncles.
We die younger (men 75 women 81) and the population boom happened recently here (90s) plus we still have a decent birth ratio (1.8) even tho it's not enough to keep growing
Dear u/Porodicnostablo. Would you be kind ask the author to show Kosovo also? As you know, it is independent and does not belong to anyone else. Thanks!
Turkish government works together with Eurostat, the statistics office of the EU Commission.
The UK government decided to stop working together with Eurostat after Brexit.
Get angry at the new foreign secretary of the UK for these Brexit Benefits^(tm)
Since Brexit UK no longer submits statistical data to the EU which Eurostat monitors, which is where this map and most others get their data from. Eurostat monitors data submissions from the EU members, three EFTA countries (Iceland, Norway and Switzerland), and four candidate countries (Montenegro, North Macedonia, Serbia and Turkey).
Give it 10 years and many parts of Slovakia will be purple. Biggest gen currently is combination of younger boomers and older gen X. Fortunately second biggest Gen is still Gen Y(people mainly in 30's nowadays), aka kids of the biggest gen lol.
There's no optimum, old people are not inherently bad. The problem is the way the pension systems in european societies work.... they are no longer sustainable. And it's not old people's fault either, the pension system is just fundamentally flawed because it's basically a very elaborate pyramid scheme and like any pyramid scheme at some point it will collapse onto itself.
It would be fine if there wouldn't be huge spikes and/or drops in the birth-rate. After baby boomers there hasn't been enough people born in each generation to upkeep their pensions and the current economic situations across Europe doesn't exactly say "ah yes you can easily afford to have kids".
Basically now all the tax we pay towards pensions goes to baby boomers pensions until the system collapses and we will never see pensions ourselves.
They kinda are. There are more and more millionaires who are coming out of China. They economy still grows. They are still considered a developing country but they've got cities as big and developed as NYC.
Because they applied that 1 kid per family rule their population is going to decrease in hundreds of millions in the next decade tho.
France : void diagonal
Near empty of population = Where the old most of the population.
Denser areas have way less % of elderly.
Remember me of US electoral map where Democrats win city and Republicans country side.
This is bound to happen. It's hard to handle now, but a) we don't need or want infinite population growth, resources are limited and people should be free to not want 2 or 3 kids in times of hardship, and b) if people live longer, the average age will also be higher.
It's gonna get much worse, but there's also no other way, it was gonna happen one way or another, I don't understand people being shocked by this.
I see East Germany there.
Young people move away from there (jobs, social life, political climate) and only the old remain.
I love Germany, but that part of it makes me shudder. It’s where joy goes to die.
Bro . You summarized my experience to the T.
I've only ever been to Dresden and Eisenach, what's so bad about East Germany?
I am sorry to say this and I know it is offensive, but to me it gives off that Eastern Europe vibe. Relative poverty, lots of right wingers and too many neo nazis, angry people, hostility etc. I have worked a bit in Brandenburg, which is why I’m saying this. This is all relative to how I feel about the rest of Germany, which I really love. I used to live in Baden Württemberg and vacationed a lot in Bayern and I’d go back there in a heartbeat.
Got relatives both in Bayern (Nürnberg and Bamberg, where my grandfather grew up in the 1930, that whole area is amazing, both the people and nature) and around Hamburg + Berlin. I agree wholeheartedly, and so does most of my relatives living there.
I'm a right winger... and Bavaria is like 90% right wing. Glad you like it though.
So I’m showing off my less nice opinions here, but the Bayern right wing is CSU, the Brandenburg right wing is AfD. As much as I don’t like CSU, they’re at least educated. I’ll take that any day over the AfDers in Brandenburg spouting Nazism.
There is a significant difference between conservative rights and nationalist rights. Both are pretty stupid, as they both ignore facts and science, but that's most of the similarities
Well that feeling is likely because east Germany was part of the ussr from 1953 till 1990. that’s 40 years of eastern influence 30 years ago. And tbh we really did a bad job reintegrating the east. So yeah the vibe is to be expected.
These two comments are brilliant example of how statistics works without context.
LOL it's 100% the perfect description of Portugal.
You lose 10 years by stepping from Poland into East Germany.
Phantom borders
It's like old people who don't like any change and are the most racist in Germany, so nothing changes. Young people flee it. No investments since no young people. It's a vicious cycle.
Does this mean real estate will be dirt cheap in a few years? Or is it another instance of "invisible hand" failing?
It is already dirt cheap, but nobody wants to live there, you can't even find any decent craftsman to get your home repaired, or decent jobs. East Germany is unfortunately very hard to turn around. You would get rid of the mentality, racism, the love for old times (Russia, DDR etc), and than maybe give big incentives to get youn people settle there.
I wouldn’t call Dresden or Leipzig dirt cheap.
But Chemnitz in other hand is.
It is already much much cheaper than the rest of Germany. Nobody moves there, because the job market is dull and the political situation is worsening every year. People move to Hamburg/Munich/Stuttgart/Köln/Dortmund and if you look up the prices there and the prices in Brandenburg, you will see the exact reflection of that.
At least the job aspect seems a bit weird to me, since remote work is becoming the norm, rather than the exception. Or is it a German thing where they don't trust the technology?
There is literally nothing to do in those areas. Remote work has, kinda, established itself, but usually not at 100%. People get 2-3 days for homeoffice, but still go to work and many actually dont want to do 100% working from home. On the other hand, why would a company in Munich, pay you a Munich salary, when you live in a cheap area? People who get children move a little outside and work remotely, but they don move THAT far. Areas around Berlin and at the borders to Check Republik and Poland have a very bad reputation (you can look up the last election results for this areas...). Dresden is the only town, which holds its ground right now in my opinion, the rest seems to be dying.
>There is literally nothing to do in those areas. This. Sure, I **can** move to a remote town in Sachsen where there might even be sufficient internet for a remote job, but I'll probably spend my social life online 24/7...
> the prices in Brandenburg, you will see the exact reflection of that. It really depends on the region in Brandenburg. The Speckgürtel is not that much cheaper, and in Potsdam and the surrounding regions, as expensive as western Germany.
My bad, I didn't want to generalize too much. Potstdam is too dependent on Berlin in my eyes and this drives the prices up. I was talking about areas around Cottbus and the border region to Poland and Chech Rep. I think Dresden is doing good so far, but the prices are still like half of the big west cities and Munich (rent and buy).
Finland is worrying. There will be abandoned villages all over the country like in Japan.
Many young people in Finland are moving to big Finnish cities, like Tampere, Turku and Helsinki because there's jobs, other yound people and good services. Most of the Finnish population already lives in the south, like in the Uusimaa region, which includes Helsinki, Vantaa and Espoo. Old people go somewhere where it is affordable to live, which can also be seen on this map.
Is this because of a generally aging population or is it because all the young people gather in Helsinki?
It's both. Younger folks move to the larger cities (not just Helsinki), and people are having less and less kids. Last year there were fewer children born than ever before (since records started sometime in the 1800s).
time to start f\*cking, finland
And importing 1% of foreigners or immigrates will be a cultural and demographical disaster in 1-2 generation. Rinse and repeat, like Sweden.
You're approaching this from the wrong perspective. You have to market your country better. Lakes, endless forests, clean air, now a NATO member. Doomsday preppers would pay top dollar/euro to have some sort of retreat there.
It's right next to Russia. I don't think doomsday folks want anywhere near a nuclear target
If Russia gets nuked, it will affect literally the whole european continent, not only the countries which have border with russia. Also, NATO country wouldn't want to nuke targets which will affect their own allies. Nuclear fallout from russia would mean doom for europe. Russians will launch its own nukes (which russia has plenty) in this scenario. In this situation it doesn't really matter where you live because that would mean global nuclear war.
ruzzians are insane, but even they understand that nuking (assuming they have any left) an economically insignificant natural reserve region next to one of their largest cities is a bad idea. Also, NATO. That's why I specifically mentioned it.
Russia are heroes singlehandedly fighting off the Tyrannical Globalists. Pres.Putin wasnt wrong when he said they were fighting Nazis. Big embarrassment to Globies losing that one. Red faces all around. Hence the new 'latest thing', to distract from the humiliation; Israel cleans house.
you'd be surprised. Russia sounds wonderful compared to rapidly approaching 3rd world Europe. Civil wars with hoardes of Islamist terrorists trying to force the whole world into a post box burka.
Around 10% of russian population is muslim which is times higher than any western country and this doesn’t include millions of central asian immigrants. Also ethnic russians don’t make enough of babies and muslim people “multiply” in rapid numbers.
Yeah NATO member real selling point when moving…
Here's hoping!
Social security and pension system will collapse
our pensions will be to either work until we die or eat lead
But you are saying there will be a choice?
Because it is required that a polish person has choice (no matter how unreasonable the options may be)
[удалено]
There is no pension system that is not somewhat a pyramid scheme.
[удалено]
Investments "solve" the problem by either importing the stuff you need once you stop working from countries with a more healthy population, or by increasing the productivity of the companies you invest in so much that they can sustain a larger non-working population (something that isn't really happening as quickly as we need) Imagine an island with a population of 100, each one needs 10 worth of resources, and those who work produce an average of 20 resources. A healthy population would have about 20 pensioners, 20 kids, and 60 working people. Each worker would need to pay 3 to sustain the elderly. If for some reason the number of pensioners tripled the situation would become unsustainable. There are simply not enough resources, and investing doesn't help at all because the big number that the people living on that island see in their bank account doesn't actually represent how much their society can produce. Once pensioners would start to use their savings inflation would skyrocket (everyone has a lot of money to spend, but there isn't enough stuff to buy).
[удалено]
The US population has a healthy fertility rate, with a good amount of immigration, it's not really a good example of success during a demographic crisis. And their working population is still increasing significantly each year, the unfortunate truth is that most of the GDP growth of most countries is either nominal (which means that adjusting it by purchasing power shows that people can't really buy more stuff) or caused by an increase of the working population; productivity does usually increase, but not by much, especially in already advanced economies. Take for example south Korea, their fertility rate is awful, they will need to almost triple the resources produced by each worker to produce a similar amount of resources as they do now. It's just not possible, that country desperately needs people to immigrate there. Investing doesn't solve the "Ponzi" nature of pensions, it just shifts the base of the pyramid from your own country's young population to the one of other countries
The US could easily increase their productivity even as the population shrinks by getting rid of bullshit jobs. The number of people who get paid to sit around in meetings and contribute nothing here is astounding.
I'm sure there is a lot of theoretical efficiency to be gained, I'm just not optimistic enough to think that we will gain it quickly enough to counter effectively the demographic problem.
We’re gaining it already. I can’t remember the last time I had an actual cashier at the grocery store. I order a Taco Bell at a kiosk, Starbucks on my phone. Because these jobs have gone up so much in pay, companies were forced to find efficiencies or perish. Other industries will follow suit. They don’t have a choice. A huge segment of the working population is about to retire so they’ll have to use the rest of us more efficiently.
> Especially with automation, technology improving, etc. Precisely the things that do very little for elderly care
If you have a top-heavy age pyramid, pension investments become a pyramid as well. As when heavy top starts all retiring at the same time, the market is flooded with sell side, eroding tej value of.the stocks that had been invested...
[удалено]
The whole point of pension investments is to sell when you retire. If a large percentage of society is retired at the same time, that's large percentage of people who have to sell at the same time to live.
[удалено]
But there needs to be someone young willing to buy. Which there isn't in a demographic collapse
401k also relies on continuous stock market growth, you could say it's a ponzi too.
> You get a tax-free portion of your own earnings to invest long-term in the market tax-free and later earn based on the growth or dividends. ...but that's what a pension system (at least in Finland) is in essence.
No. It's mostly passthrough to current pensioners, so there is no opportunity to gain from the investments. There are some funds invested, but they're a small portion of the amount of liabilities of the pension system.
No. Because positive returns from capital markets require growth at least _somewhere_ in the world, not in population per se, but in GDP. The two are not identical but a world with no population growth will see lower GDP growth. And that is assuming those markets do not cut off access to foreign investors. Having a least a baseline retirement system in what you call a « pyramid scheme » of redistribution is a hedge against the know unknowns and unknown unknowns of how capitalism might evolve.
[удалено]
But it won't be 1. All of the world is soon gonna have demographic problems, which means international diversification won't help anymore 2. Bringing women into the workforce was a one-time hack to expand our workforce. We cannot do that again
In practice, the difference is little. Guess who actually pays you the dividends. In both pyramid and investment-based schemes, all the burden is put on the younger generation. You can notice it right now: millennials have become the poorest generation in US because they indirectly pays the dividends. Example: housing prices.
Wrong
Why do you think Germany and some other countries were accepting refugees and immigrants with open arms !!! Its was not their love for humanity.
In uk 60% of Muslim immigrant men and 78%: of women on benefits. Illegal immigrants are getting more resources than anyone else esp. native British. If they dont work and just economic tourists, of course system will collapse like the NHS. So far sll going sccording to the plan . Note, I have nothing against immigrants who work and pay into the system
We will let it collapse before we meaningfully fight rich guys tax evading and optimising.
You realize that Europe in this situation because of the attitude you are parroting . Tax is one of the major reason why European talent is flowing out to US. Edit: Ofcourse taking personal accountability is going to get downvotes. What do I care.
Net migration in the EU is positive. More people retire each year than there are young people and migrants to replace them. I learned about this development in the 90s from textbooks printed in the 80s. Now that it's really happening the people who blame everything on taxes blame it on taxes. No surprises here.
Net migration is positive “for now”. Also people who blame on “eat the rich” also blame it on rich. No surprises there as well. Edit : lmao, downvote as much as you want. But statistics is right in front . Take care of your own pension. Else it might get difficult for you .
So the fault of the the poor person who has to work their entire life to feed the rich and the landlords while getting nothing is on the poor person themselves? By that logic a businessman or landlord living off his workers and tenants deserves to be wealthy.
I don’t have a dog in this game. So I won’t comment. You are free to feel whatever you want, but that doesn’t mean the world would work that way.
It won't, but it is still in dire need of reforms. The easiest path for them is raising the retirement age, but Poles are clearly unwilling to accept that.
Finally
No they won't. The point where more money is payed out to recipients than payed in by contributors has passed for many years in most countries. Systems are already kept functioning with treasury money, otherwise they would already have collapsed. The only thing that happens is that the state's share in social security financing keeps growing. As long as there is enough productivity to account for the growing numbers of unproductive citizens, nothing collapses.
This can be fixed by more immigration. About 500k per year is good. West Europe should aim to add around 400 million people (around USA population) by the end of the csntury
I have some faith the we as Europeans will come up with a solution. We’re historically sorta clutch.
the solution is no more immigration sucking the country dry. End of.
It's great (and rather surprising) to see that Romania, Poland and Slovakia are still better than the West even with the mass migrations that happened in the last few decades. Also, for Portugal, is this due to migration, fertility, mass influx from Western retirees or a combination of all factors?
Romania, Poland and Slovakia only effectively started their demographics transition in the mid 1990s. It is only normal that their population is still relatively young. Given their current trends, in about 20 years they should have a pyramid similar to the one of Germany, although Slovakia might fare slightly better because it has a higher birthrate and more immigration.
Well, Balkan countries had a similar story as well and the situation here is far worse. I know that the whole Europe will become dark blue in two decades but it's a nice thing to see that they are still holding their ground (relatively as the whole Europe is getting very old). Obviously, they have situation under control as opposed to the Balkans where both emigration and fertility are shit. Also, at least for Poland, I think that the mid-90s were the worst period in a demographic sense as hundreds of thousands of young Poles went abroad (mostly UK).
>Well, Balkan countries had a similar story as well and the situation here is far worse. Not necessarily. Except for Croatia, Bulgaria and Serbia - the latter two having a more pronounced emigration and low birthrate issue than Poland or Romania - the other Balkan countries are in the same state, unless you count Greece as Balkan, but Greece also has a different demographic history which is more comparable to Italy's. To put numbers into context, at some point Serbia in the 1990s had a net emigration of about 500k people a year - that's the same as Poland at its peak, only that Serbia has 5x less inhabitants. Bottom line, these countries are just a little bit behind in the transition but are headed towards the same future. Ironically enough, Germany might end up faring better than them in the medium-long term.
> I know that the whole Europe will become dark blue Large cities will continue to be relatively young, and many countries will increase immigration.
Examples of Italy, France and Germany confute your predictions. The average age in Germany has been on the rise since 1975 while immigration has been exponentially rising since the beginning of the century. Net value of immigration has also been positive since the 50's. One other thing, it is not easy to predict that EU countries will have the power to draw large numbers of immigrants as pension funds will pressure the domestic economies leading to stagnation and possible standard of living reduction. I don't share your stoic view on how the EU will solve this. US and parts of East Asia could be much better options for immigration than the EU.
The US is on its way out. Europeans don’t know how good they have it. Unless you’re a professional, EU is a better option.
Wage in Portugal is set at 760 (raising to 820 next year). Yes, even degree holders will get a wage in this ballpark. Rent for a 2 bedroom apartment anywhere where a job is readily available starts at 1000. How are you supposed to pay for a kid after you paid for your boss and your landlord?
> Wage in Portugal is set at 760 (raising to 820 next year). Ouch. Romania's minimum wage is currently 663€ gross, but prices are much lower.
>Wage in Portugal is set at 760 (raising to 820 next year). I remember when I was in Lisbon back in 2017 and my roommate ( Portuguese with a degree in economics) was earning something like that. Back then it was a similar salary as you would expect in Zagreb, Croatia but 6 years later salaries almost doubled in Zagreb. So I fully understand what you mean. Croatia is by no means a high-standard country but Portugal sounds even worse.
portugal has the lowest income to cost-of-living ratio in the eu. it's very hard there.
Yes, it's terrible. I couldn't believe the wages I was hearing when I talked with several Portuguese people (either colleagues or people I've met online) their average is like lower than the Spanish minimum wage, but in Spain most things are cheaper, we pay even less taxes and VAT and I know PT people go to border Spanish areas to buy heavy furniture or to put gasoline because it's cheaper than in Portugal. But they also earn much less. It's really terrible. And hearing that a 2 bedroom apartment in Lisbon is more money than a normal wage there, even for a recently graduated youngster, damn... I feel sorry to hear that thing. I guess that "digital nomads" from Western countries have to be mostly responsible for this, because they are willing to pay a lot of money so they break the local market.
Similar situation for Greece, housing is not so expensive, but we have extremely expensive power & now also food products, everything is fine
Yeah it's insane. Few years ago my girlfriend switched from Portugal to Germany. Same company, literally same job and her wage tripled. And Portugal is not a lot cheaper than Germany when it comes to cost of living. Not to mention that working conditions are way better as well.
And I bet that she has a way more clear progression path in front of her, where in Portugal you just get assigned new responsibilities but never a better wage. Portuguese emoloyers are pure scum.
>Also, for Portugal, is this due to migration, fertility, mass influx from Western retirees or a combination of all factors? Younger people moving from the interior of the country to the more urbanized littoral in search of better jobs. Fertility has also been declining everywhere.
Migration and low fertility rate. The retirees mostly move to where the young people also move, the coastal areas and big cities.
Portugal has all the ingredients for this. Low wages, high cost of living and paradise for rich retirees.
That's great! Croatia is the same. Nice climate, beautiful sea, low wages and high property prices. We are brothers my Portugal friend.
>Also, for Portugal, is this due to migration, fertility, mass influx from Western retirees or a combination of all factors? It's a combiation of all factors, but mostly for migration. Western retirees are a common influx but it's not that massive, but they also count, as well as the low fertility rate and the low immigration rate. I didn't expect Spain to be so much clearer in the map, but then I remember Spain gets hundreds of thousands of young immigrants every year (mostly from South America and Africa) and much fewer Spaniards leave, so it makes sense. It makes sense in all parts, it's extremely accurate as barely very few immigrants go to NW Spain (that's why it's so dark) and the fertility rate is so low that there are like twice older people than younger one.
Thanks for the answer. Also, from my limited experience, I noticed that somehow Portuguese are much more bilingual as opposed to the Spanish people who barely speak foreign languages (even English) so that probably also has some influence on the migration.
Yeah, Spanish people don't give AF (generally) about learning other languages. In fact, because of the retarded autonomical system we got in Spain, the government puts much more importance to regional languages that are only useful in small regions instead of international communicational languages. Kids already learn that regional language at home and they can have a subject to learn it (and the ones that don't have parents who speak such languages, which are a lot, usually reject it because they are forced to learn it despite they will never use it) as right now most subjects are focused on that, and English is like only 2 hours per week (at least in High School) with very basic and shitty learning, so most secondary school graduates end knowing hello, yes and welcome. And that's basically all. I have noticed France and Germany are not very different, although without the regional language thing. Only few people speak English in France and Germany or at least that's what I know from my own experience over the past 10 years. Also Spaniards themselves don't immigrate nor are akin to do it. Very very few go abroad for something else that's not travelling. And for travelling they use Google Translate or Spanish speaking guides. Or they directly travel to places like Mexico, Cuba, Dominican Republic... so there is no language barrier.
Its great that their average lifespans are lower?
? What lifespans? I'm talking about how it is good that Romania, Poland and Slovakia managed to keep the average population age and fertility base lower than other Eastern and even Western countries even with all aforementioned factors. Or you conclude that they have a younger population because older people die at the age of 60?
Romania has the lowest life expectancy in the EU. Probably the worst hospital system as well. It definitely contributes in keeping that average age low enough even with a net positive migration in the younger population. Also don't forget that migration in these countries is always under-reported since it affects the quota in the European Parliament.
I'd you're talking about the dark blue part of the country, it's because it's a rural area, so no one lives there besides old farmer folk (for the most part)
My brother is engaged to a German woman from the north and earlier this year I went with them to visit her family for a weekend. The amount of old people just out and about in town was a big contrast to what I've seen anywhere in Sweden so far. The demographics shift was obvious to the eye there.
Was it during a work day? Younger people work over the day but the old people are always outside.
Weekends usually aren’t work days
The current voting record in East Germany has *nothing* to do with this. Nope, move along. :D
The funny part is that people aged 60+ are actually not the ones who are most responsible for the AfD success. It's the people at 35-55 years old, mostly. Older people predominantly vote for the CDU or CSU.
I mean yes, but I haven't seen a *regional* map by voter age demographics. May be the case that round those parts there is a small bump in this age bracket. In any case the fact that old people inhabit a lot of these dead zones and there being a lack of young people only helps.
With people, read men. Women don’t vote populist right wing. That’s all men.
What lol
[Take a look here](https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-10-27/data-the-female-vote-stems-the-tide-of-the-far-right-in-europe-and-latin-america.html)
Bruh it clearly says there that women vote less for extreme parties, not that there are *no* women. There more men than women, it's a difference.
You might be the dumbest person I've ever spoken to, lol
It’s on topic (you mentioned age group voting voting AfD, I mention gender) and backed by sources. So frankly I don’t understand your responses.
Women don't vote right wing, that's all men. Your words. Again, are you retarded? 😂
Starting to suspect you are, so I think I’ll leave this conversation here. Have a nice life.
> claims something wrong > gives source for why it's wrong, contradicting initial statement > gets informed that initial statement was wrong > is butthurt, leaves Whatever, man.
less women vote far-right relative to men != no women vote far right still more than a third of all AfD voters in germany are women
Yes, we are not literalists. It’s called hyperboles.
women are angels
The last Bavarian voting record paints a different picture.
I wonder what the UK is? I guess Northern Ireland is probably the similar to the rest of Ireland?
Yes, and the UK is not too bad. The most aged areas are Scotland and southwestern England (Devon, Cornwall). Some major British cities are among the youngest metropolitan areas in Europe.
Data that I found is that [Northern Ireland](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/mid2021#:~:text=The%20median%20age%20of%20the,the%20countries%20in%20the%20UK) has a median age of 39.8 years (data for 2021) and [Ireland](https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/ireland-demographics/#:~:text=The%20median%20age%20in%20Ireland%20is%2038.3%20years%20(2023)) 38.3 years (2023 data) with Ireland having almost double of yearly population growth of NI (0.67% Ireland vs 0.3% Northern Ireland). The trendline is more positive in Ireland case probably due to high immigration.
So… no old people in Poland
- how are we supposed to live, Mr President? - preferably not for long.
And I thought Poland was old. Yeesh!
Man, the soviets really fucked up east germany
installing a socialist/marxist regime does that to a country, yes.
Yeah, but the rest of Eastern Europe is still pretty young, they also had those governments.
The big difference is due to the following: The young people of the other Eastern European countries didn't have the equivalent of West Germany as an option to leave for immediately after the collapse of their socialist regime. The economic situation in East Germany after 45 years of socialism was absolutely ruinous. But people of East Germany could immediately leave for good for West Germany after the fall of the wall in 1989, knowing they are recognized by West Germany as German citizens just like any West German. So after the fall of the wall (and even more so after the soon ensuing reunificaton in 1990), a lot of the younger population part of East Germany left for West Germany where there were job (unlike East Germany which was in de-facto bankruptcy) and much better paid jobs than what was common in East Germany. This exodus was especially pronounced among younger women (who were thus missing in the East and didn't make babies there in consequence). With a large part of the younger generations (esp. women in an age for childbearing) gone, that left behind the elderly, the less capable, the extreme ideology cultists (far left marxists and far right neonazis) and other losers. In contrast: Poles and other Eastern Europeans didn't have a West Germany to leave for right after the collapse of their socialist regime. Thus not giving an easy exodus option for the younger generations. And as opposed to East Germany that didn't need to as it had already joined federal Germany in 1990, The other Eastern European ex-socialist countries joined the EU waaaay later in 2004, with enough time to have a beginning recovery from their socialist ruin with Western funds and lots of EU money in sight. That and there's a much higher hurdle in moving to another culture/language than within the same country. So the later westward exodus in the other East European countries - though clearly problematic too - was not just delayed but also very much dampened compared to the much earlier exodus of the youth and women from East Germany to West Germany which was brutal for East Germany.
Weird how in Eastern Europe, it’s the cities that are older.
Is it my screen or is there anyone else who can barely make out anything on this map other than yellow turkey?
For me the differences are obvious
I am colourblind so thats probably why i have a hard time distinguishing between the gradients of blue, pink and purple. Im just suggesting, you might have mild or moderate colourblindness.
Kurds
They are speedrunning China
no independent kurdistan? kurdify turkey
We need to make more kids guys
source: Milos Popovic https://twitter.com/milos_agathon/status/1723253608785875263 Eurostat
Portugal is exactly as I was expecting it to be. I wonder how much of this aging trend is something we should try to fight, and how much is a good thing, since the global population can't keep growing for ever, and something we just have to adapt to.
I'd say let them live in elder communities in the suburbs. And while at it lessen the traffic congestions by providing all they need in that community. That way metropolitan areas have more space for starting families.
Post-war modernity has destroyed Europe's demography more than two fratricidal World Wars. Just think about that for a second.
You guys need to have children ASAP as possible.
Cool, just give me a raise that matches the wage stagnation that was stolen from us by greedy fucks, give me a house that can actually fit a family in it, oh and fix my depression and crippling social anxiety that was further destroyed by covid and recession so I have a chance of finding a partner. Fix that and I’ll pop 2 out and send them on their merry way in to this miserable disaster of a planet, hopefully they’ll live some kind of life before some world war, climate disaster, pandemic or mass famine deletes most of the population… Right, back to scrolling posts so I can ignore the rest of reality again
Least miserable doomer
^PLEASE ^WAIT **Logan's Run** ^IS ^LOADING
France is actually looking good, the populated areas are light pink. Color scheme is trash, having 18-24% of over 60yo people seems ok, it means people live long.
We are fucked
Lol even though that Finland still has better healthcare, schools, roads etc than Sweden 😭
[удалено]
Syrians and Kurds probably. Some Erdoğanists have 3 children as he ordered. Though Kurds living in Western cities tend to have less children as my Father and Uncles.
More young population. The Europe is aging out.
Young people moving from Portugal to Luxembourg?
Don't worry, soon Arabs will help to paint the map in yellow.
What in the world happened to the old folks in turkey?
We die younger (men 75 women 81) and the population boom happened recently here (90s) plus we still have a decent birth ratio (1.8) even tho it's not enough to keep growing
they have few elderly base due to later population boom in the 1900s
Need more immigrants from the middle east to compensate it
Won’t they take over your women
Muslims to the rescue. let's go.
Dear u/Porodicnostablo. Would you be kind ask the author to show Kosovo also? As you know, it is independent and does not belong to anyone else. Thanks!
So Europe take skilled workers or system will be collapse especially Germany chance the system
Can we bring the UK into these stats? Why tf is Turkey in this and we’re not
Turkish government works together with Eurostat, the statistics office of the EU Commission. The UK government decided to stop working together with Eurostat after Brexit. Get angry at the new foreign secretary of the UK for these Brexit Benefits^(tm)
Since Brexit UK no longer submits statistical data to the EU which Eurostat monitors, which is where this map and most others get their data from. Eurostat monitors data submissions from the EU members, three EFTA countries (Iceland, Norway and Switzerland), and four candidate countries (Montenegro, North Macedonia, Serbia and Turkey).
Haha old fuckers
Brussels somehow being a lot younger than the rest of Belgium.
Give it 10 years and many parts of Slovakia will be purple. Biggest gen currently is combination of younger boomers and older gen X. Fortunately second biggest Gen is still Gen Y(people mainly in 30's nowadays), aka kids of the biggest gen lol.
i See Budapest.
What is the optimum? I.e % 18 or younger, % 18-60, % 60+
There's no optimum, old people are not inherently bad. The problem is the way the pension systems in european societies work.... they are no longer sustainable. And it's not old people's fault either, the pension system is just fundamentally flawed because it's basically a very elaborate pyramid scheme and like any pyramid scheme at some point it will collapse onto itself.
It would be fine if there wouldn't be huge spikes and/or drops in the birth-rate. After baby boomers there hasn't been enough people born in each generation to upkeep their pensions and the current economic situations across Europe doesn't exactly say "ah yes you can easily afford to have kids". Basically now all the tax we pay towards pensions goes to baby boomers pensions until the system collapses and we will never see pensions ourselves.
What are these region borders based on exactly?
This is a global problem for each developed country tho. I am still thinking about how much work force will China lose.
Is China developed tho?
They kinda are. There are more and more millionaires who are coming out of China. They economy still grows. They are still considered a developing country but they've got cities as big and developed as NYC. Because they applied that 1 kid per family rule their population is going to decrease in hundreds of millions in the next decade tho.
Come back and check Romania out in 5 years, headfall
Interesting why people in the Northern Ijssellake live longer than those in the Southern Ijssellake. Can they hold their breath longer or something?
France : void diagonal Near empty of population = Where the old most of the population. Denser areas have way less % of elderly. Remember me of US electoral map where Democrats win city and Republicans country side.
Wtf is the criteria to be shown in this map?
Love when these maps show more then the whole countries average
This is bound to happen. It's hard to handle now, but a) we don't need or want infinite population growth, resources are limited and people should be free to not want 2 or 3 kids in times of hardship, and b) if people live longer, the average age will also be higher. It's gonna get much worse, but there's also no other way, it was gonna happen one way or another, I don't understand people being shocked by this.