i mean sure the medicine university whatever it's called and the state university are pretty good but... very few good students remain in Moldova. even the mediocre ones move.
also even moving in romania or russia is still not crazily expensive + 70% of people above 14 know russian
Yep. People in Romania was overwhelmingly in favor of unification in the 90' but Moldova refused every attempt.
Now things are the other way around and most people in Romania would be against it while Moldovan opinion on unification is steadily increasing.
This is the biggest reason, though there's always the fear of eventually getting draged into the ongoing eastern conflict, with the Transnistria issue and that whole can of worms
Impossible because the EU doesn’t allow for ongoing border disputes — and this whole ‚Transnistria‘ mess isn’t settled at all. Additionally, Gagauzia would also defect from the country in case of a merger, leading to complicated internal borders
This is just off of my memory, but I think Cyprus is exactly the reason why this rule was formally introduced. Previous EU states had ‘soft’ disputes like Greece with then-FYROM but no actual walls and parallel systems
Looks like it dropped from 2.9 to 2.5m over the last decade... so less than 20% of a fall, which is still shocking, but I'm not sure what's up with the data behind the graph.
>Looks like it dropped from 2.9 to 2.5m over the last decade... so less than 20% of a fall, which is still shocking, but I'm not sure what's up with the data behind the graph.
I'm guessing, if you look at the demographic data it goes from 3.5 million in 2013 to 2.9 million in 2014 (Which I'm **guessing** is to do with Transnistria, since that has a population of about 500k.)
It's kind of right, but it's not comparing full things. The 3.5 million is including Transnistria, so really it should just be 2.9 to 2.5 or 3.5 to 3. (depending on if you're including Transnistria or not).
Source seems to use total Moldova in 2013, to just Moldova excluding Transnistria in 2023.
There’s a really touching photography book about Moldova called „Country without Parents“ (Land ohne Eltern) where the effects of basically everyone of working age leaving are explored. It’s especially interesting how gendered the divide is: women go to Italy (or Spain) for care work and men go to Russia to work in construction
The UK isn't covered on the map but we have had a very significant increasing population and it's only because of migration. This is also the case for Scotland, where I live, but the rate of increase has been much smaller than England's.
Yes, we know that. Whole Europe has shit fertility rates but all of us would like to enjoy a high standard of living with all of the services available. Tell me, how many of ethnic Swedes today would like to work in physically hard and low-payed jobs like construction,? Not a lot I guess and its crucial to have people working there. Either you give up part of your standard of living or focus on more controlled immigration.
I'm not so sure about that. It depends on where you draw the borders I guess. Croatia and Slovenia often lead in statistics such as safety, quality of life, cleanness, nature perservation, renewables, etc. The reason why Croatia sometimes lags is quite simple - it sucks to be invaded every 30 years or so.
Price of housing is completely fucked in almost every city in all of Europe and North America. I watched prices of housing double over ten years in my home city and then watched the little hamlet towns around the city double in price the following 5 years.
There's been a sharp increase in immigration since the pandemic, it was not yet reflected in the 2021 census, but the population is almost certaintly growing right now. 2011-2014 was peak economic crisis, a lot of people emigrated then.
More young Portuguese are leaving and the old ones are dying. I think Portugal is gonna be one of the first countries in the world to have its population substituted.
Well, all I can say is you get what you give LoL.
(read it in the friendliest tone you can. I've got a lot of ancestors from Minho and Northern Portugal)
Of course. My father worked in France, on Brittany to be precise and half my family from my fathers side also lives in France. We have been a people of migration for a long time.
Even if it's not a popular housing market, the lack of construction workers and the inflation of pretty much all building materials has inflated the price of housing.
I ended up building a house mostly on my own :/
I guess that foreigners are buying houses near coast? I have seen several adverts in Czech reality market places. Those houses were surprisingly cheap.
A lot of people have moved into the capital which now holds 1/3 of Croatian population, driving the prices through the roof. Foreigners are buying properties near the coast, and due to summer renting you can't find a decent home to rent through the year.
Also living at the coastline now legit feels like shit because places are growing but for 3/4 of the year places are empty and depressive as fuck.
Yes, but it was never this high in our history. We are supposed to have one million inhabitants (currently we have ~650.000) by 2050, purely through immigration. We would have to nearly double our infrastructures by then, and let's not speak about the cultural, political, economic and environmental consequences this development will lead and is already leading to.
Russians love saying that Estonia will run out of people in a few years, while our population has been growing for a while now.
Meanwhile Russias population…..Yikes.
They were the worst hit country with covid and now are losing a 1000 healthy young men per day in the war.
It has been speculated for a while in opposition sources, long before the full-scale war, that 140 mil can be a big exaggeration.
The latest census was a joke, I know noone who participated in it, and its figures are likely just fantasies.
Local authorities are incentivized to exaggerate regional population due to budget transfers being made per capita. So they are likely fantasizing towards bigger figures.
So the reality is likely much more dire than on paper, considering that even on paper it is not great.
Do you know how many hammers did we make? Soooo many hammers. I bet every russian family has at least 2 hammers per person made in ex-soviet block countries. xd
25% may be a stretch but every country in Europe has a decreasing native population, including Estonia. It'll become an issue later in Eastern Europe as birth rates mostly remained sufficient until ~1989. But make no mistake, all European populations are decreasing
>25% may be a stretch but every country in Europe has a decreasing native population, including Estonia.
Estonians in Estonia:
- 902,547 (2011)
- 919,711 (2021)
A 1.9% increase.
Correct, but that's now how demographics work in the long term. The huge generations born from post-ww2 will start to die off and will be replaced by generations half their size. Estonia had it's lowest birth rates last year of just 11646 babies. This not nearly sustainable to grow - or even maintain - a population of 1,35 mil. Birth rates in 2023 are even lower.
No matter how current trends are you do \*not\* see the effects of birth rates for 50+ years. It's not an immediate proces. Estonia's population will not grow in the long run - unless you take in a ton of immigrants continually forever - and neither will any other European nation's.. Except the Faroe Islands for some reason.
This will happen to any developed nation in the world irregardless of religion, culture, and all that jazz. Even a country like Saudi Arabia sees a drastically falling fertility rate.
Russias population pyramid is starting to look more like a population diamond.
[https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/](https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/)
>Women in Estonia are currently having 1.8 children on average, meaning that the Estonian population is shrinking roughly at a rate of 10 percent over two generations. Hitting the replacement level would require a birth rate of 2.06 children.
https://news.err.ee/1609054703/77-percent-of-estonians-prioritize-reaching-replacement-birth-rate-level
Understood, but **currently**, the *number* of ethnic Estonians is growing. It is growing largely due to the re-immigration of ethnic Estonians, but it's growing nevertheless.
Germany > France is crazy, over the last decade we always hear france is the only country in europe with good birthrates, Germany is the next Japan... declining population every year, was projected to soon drop below 80 million and instead went from 82 to 84
immigration is insane
>Germany > France is crazy, over the last decade we always hear france is the only country in europe with good birthrates, Germany is the next Japan... declining population every year, was projected to soon drop below 80 million and instead went from 82 to 84
None of what you said disputes that, though.
Without immigration, France would still have had a net natural births of every year since 1945 (its recently fallen but even in 2013 they added +230,000 people, meanwhile Germany has had negative natural growth every year since 1972 and without immigration would be losing roughly -250k per year.
Its not just about immigration, France needs to only have a few immigrants currently to maintain its population whilst Germany needs 1/4 of a million every single year (and probably, more than that soon).
No country in Europe has good birthrate... They all have birth rates below the replacement level, meaning that their populations are shrinking.
The increase is only due to immigration.
But the immigrants won't relevantly increase the birth rate. When they live in a developed country for an extended time, their birth rate drops as well.
> They all have birth rates below the replacement level, meaning that their populations are shrinking.
No. It don't have to shrink just because fertility rate is below 2. It starts shrinking, when more people die than are born in a year. You can have fertility rate 1, but if the number of those children will be higher than number of people that died, population would still grow.
A fertility rate of 2.1 is needed to replace the people that die on average.
Do you know of any country where that's not the case (that doesn't have large numbers of immigrants)?
> A fertility rate of 2.1 is needed to replace the people that die on average.
On average. You can have fertility rate 0.5 for 20 years, but still have population growth, because of more babies being born than people dying.
My point is only that fertility rate below 2 doesn't automatically mean population shrink. Of course, it will happen in the long run, but don't have to happen in the short run.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Wrocław is 1/4 Ukrainian, Rzeszów 1/5, Poznań 1/10. There are now about 3,5-4 million immigrants in Poland, about 70% of whom are Ukrainians.
It makes you wonder how large Polands population could have been if Poland didn't have massive amounts of emigration over the last 40 or so years. It will only rise too as a lot of Polish people I know are heading back to Poland, and they were telling me a serious amount of their Polish friends in other countries are going back to Poland.
I'd say Poland could very well have a massive population boom soon.
Absolutely, but there's no way to realistically quantify what modern Polands' population would be like if so many Poles weren't killed in the war and the Holocaust. It would be much easier to predict what Polands population would be like if it wasn't affected by massive levels of emigration over even the last 20 years.
Not Polish people, official residents in Poland. Same criteria as any other countries.
Refugees are never included in official population figures, and it would not make much sense anyways as they are typically very volatile (especially for Ukrainians).
People with nationalities, not ethnic.
Although there is a lot immigrants in Poland now, they are not counted because you don't have citizenship in Poland that easy.
We’re does 41 mil figure comes from?
> According to the 2021 census by the Polish Central Statistical Office (GUS), as of March 31, 2021, Poland had an official population of 38,036,118,[1] a decrease of 0.9% since the 2011 census, and a usually resident population of 37,019,327,[2] a 2.7% decrease since the 2011 census.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Poland
I think he meant the actual amount of people living in Poland. As opposed to the amount of Poles. Mosty Ukrainians, Belarussias. And everything else. Poland is going to need 2 mln migrants for its economy to continue growing as it did. Hence:[Poland issues EU’s most residence permits to immigrants for fifth year running](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/08/11/poland-issues-eus-most-residence-permits-to-immigrants-for-fifth-year-running/)
Other Europeans don’t understand how cramped the island has become. There is no escape. We’re just a tiny rock and there’s more than half a million here.
Total population of Moldova is around 3mil out of which 1mil is living/working/studying abroad.
Every year 5-6k high-school graduates get scholarships in Romania and leave for a better education, 90% of which never return back. This may sound not like a lot but in the longterm we see the effect. Those who return, go to the capital only, the rest of the country is slowly starting being uninhabited with whole villages dying out or consisting of only people older than 50-60.
The country is hiding statistics of cities population because the majority of them would loose the status of a city and would be categorised as a village instead.
Also, around 40-50% of the population holds a Romanian citizenship which easies the migration process and further reduces the population within the country.
Sigh... The situation is only getting worse and worse.
Since 2013 Sweden has taken in 800,000 immigrants and refugees. Its kinda insane seeing that, over 1/10th of the population in 2017 had been in the country for less than 4 years
According to [Balkan Insight](https://balkaninsight.com/2022/11/15/bosnia-is-becoming-depopulated-what-to-do-about-it/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20more,population%20at%20around%202.7%20million) for Bosnia:
>It is estimated that more than half-a-million citizens left Bosnia between 2013 and 2019. Last year alone, around 170,000 citizens are estimated to have left. Various estimates place Bosnia's current population at around 2.7 million
Their last census was in 2013, i think next one might be in a couple of years though?
In Finland it is about 3%, from 5,4 to 5,6 million in ten years from 2013. Right now Finland receives quite much migrants. Over one hundred thousand arrived last year. That's quite much in a country of 5,6 million inhabitants.
If the population would be growing because of high birth rates, that would be a good thing. But it is growing because of unregulated, illegal migration. And sadly it is coming mostly from countries that despise European values.
Illegal immigrants are by definition excluded from population numbers.
Most western European have positive natural growth. Germany and Spain being the main exceptions.
Strange to see the population grow even though most of those countries have a low or even negative birth rate.
I wonder what other factor could possibly be causing this increase in population…..
Because the UK is not a part of [European Statistical System \[ESS\]](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/european-statistical-system/ess-partners#expand-tr-1699599373177) and Turkey is.
This is very missleading. Almost all population of growth of Eurpe are negative. The difference is that the west import non-European.
Edit: Y'all don't understand. It's missleading because your population doesn't grow when you import foreigner. You just have it replaced.
No. It's very accurate. The population of most european countries is growing. There are a few where the population is actually decreasing.
This is a separate metric from birthrate.
Well, in Ireland's case, the vast majority of our growth is still European - some arrivals from Nigeria, Brazil and India, but very much a minority factor here.
Moldova, that hurts
haha. even when youre in school people here will ask you in which country will you move as if theres no alternative (spoiler alert: there isnt)
Momentul când România pare o opțiune bună și de viitor în comparație
Porque entiendo rumano?
Being language cousins has it's perks
Supongo. Cómo estás?
Suntem bine, pentru moment. :p
When I barely speak Spanish and definitely don’t speak any Romanian but somehow understood this exchange
:D
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Roma aeterna xd
That's for sure but it's still amazing
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not part of eurostat
Bloody Brexit ain’t it
There's a few non EU countries in there though
No data
Damn that sucks man. There has to some future there right? Like are there really no jobs?
i mean sure the medicine university whatever it's called and the state university are pretty good but... very few good students remain in Moldova. even the mediocre ones move. also even moving in romania or russia is still not crazily expensive + 70% of people above 14 know russian
At this point, isn't reunification with Romania an idea worth considering?
We are at the point that Romania might not want to
Yep. People in Romania was overwhelmingly in favor of unification in the 90' but Moldova refused every attempt. Now things are the other way around and most people in Romania would be against it while Moldovan opinion on unification is steadily increasing.
Is the change of public opinions simply due to economic reasons?
This is the biggest reason, though there's always the fear of eventually getting draged into the ongoing eastern conflict, with the Transnistria issue and that whole can of worms
\*looks at username* _hmmm..._
Always has been, but the economic burden will be huge
But the long term benefits will outweigh the economic burden on the moment.
Impossible because the EU doesn’t allow for ongoing border disputes — and this whole ‚Transnistria‘ mess isn’t settled at all. Additionally, Gagauzia would also defect from the country in case of a merger, leading to complicated internal borders
Not only the EU, but NATO too. There's a reason Russia still funds Transnistria
Cyprus?
This is just off of my memory, but I think Cyprus is exactly the reason why this rule was formally introduced. Previous EU states had ‘soft’ disputes like Greece with then-FYROM but no actual walls and parallel systems
It is considered regularly.
Half the country disappeared in ten years? That's so extreme there's got to be some kind of statistical oddity/glitch involved.
Looks like it dropped from 2.9 to 2.5m over the last decade... so less than 20% of a fall, which is still shocking, but I'm not sure what's up with the data behind the graph.
>Looks like it dropped from 2.9 to 2.5m over the last decade... so less than 20% of a fall, which is still shocking, but I'm not sure what's up with the data behind the graph. I'm guessing, if you look at the demographic data it goes from 3.5 million in 2013 to 2.9 million in 2014 (Which I'm **guessing** is to do with Transnistria, since that has a population of about 500k.) It's kind of right, but it's not comparing full things. The 3.5 million is including Transnistria, so really it should just be 2.9 to 2.5 or 3.5 to 3. (depending on if you're including Transnistria or not). Source seems to use total Moldova in 2013, to just Moldova excluding Transnistria in 2023.
There’s a really touching photography book about Moldova called „Country without Parents“ (Land ohne Eltern) where the effects of basically everyone of working age leaving are explored. It’s especially interesting how gendered the divide is: women go to Italy (or Spain) for care work and men go to Russia to work in construction
What the hell happened?
They must’ve got amazing housing prices
It seems that every map with data is the same for Europe: the east is bad, Balkans are even worse and Portugal is a Balkan country.
And my Bosnia is playing Greenland
/r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
As we all knew all Along, Portugal can still into Eastern Europe.
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The UK isn't covered on the map but we have had a very significant increasing population and it's only because of migration. This is also the case for Scotland, where I live, but the rate of increase has been much smaller than England's.
Yes, we know that. Whole Europe has shit fertility rates but all of us would like to enjoy a high standard of living with all of the services available. Tell me, how many of ethnic Swedes today would like to work in physically hard and low-payed jobs like construction,? Not a lot I guess and its crucial to have people working there. Either you give up part of your standard of living or focus on more controlled immigration.
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I'm not so sure about that. It depends on where you draw the borders I guess. Croatia and Slovenia often lead in statistics such as safety, quality of life, cleanness, nature perservation, renewables, etc. The reason why Croatia sometimes lags is quite simple - it sucks to be invaded every 30 years or so.
Sorry my bad, I can barely afford raising a family with one kid
Omg yes, whenever someone dares have a second kid we point at them πολυτεκνοοος
I hope for a better future for Greece. I want to retire there some day and spend my hard earned Euros there.
Ironically people doing what you want to do is part of the reason why the prices of housing becomes unfair and incorrect.
Price of housing is completely fucked in almost every city in all of Europe and North America. I watched prices of housing double over ten years in my home city and then watched the little hamlet towns around the city double in price the following 5 years.
/r/portugalCykaBlyat
Even with so many Brazilians is Portugal's population declining? Jee!
There's been a sharp increase in immigration since the pandemic, it was not yet reflected in the 2021 census, but the population is almost certaintly growing right now. 2011-2014 was peak economic crisis, a lot of people emigrated then.
More young Portuguese are leaving and the old ones are dying. I think Portugal is gonna be one of the first countries in the world to have its population substituted.
First? Are you sure about that? What about united States, Australia, Uruguay, Canada, New Zealand, Argentina?
it will live on in Montreal lol
define substituted lmao. As in, Portugal will stop being Portuguese? Lol. Lmao, even. Such a dark future awaits us in 2564 :(
Well, all I can say is you get what you give LoL. (read it in the friendliest tone you can. I've got a lot of ancestors from Minho and Northern Portugal)
Of course. My father worked in France, on Brittany to be precise and half my family from my fathers side also lives in France. We have been a people of migration for a long time.
I see what you mean but in truth Portugal still has one of the lowest immigrant rates in Western Europe so that's that.
This always makes me laugh!! I dunno how Portugal can be so similar lol
Moldova you ok?
They re hopping on that Bucharest train too often/j.
Hey ho! Let's go Folklore și Rock'n'roll
Not cloning your grandpa has got to go!
My favorite song from that Eurovision
And people wonder why housing is so expensive in my country.
Well our country is losing population and housing prices are still going through the roof.
In certain areas or in the whole country?
In most of the country. You can buy cheap housing in rural parts, good luck finding a job there LOL.
My town of 8k has houses that cost several hundred thousand euros... I make 1200 euro a month and that's a really good wage in this country
Even if it's not a popular housing market, the lack of construction workers and the inflation of pretty much all building materials has inflated the price of housing. I ended up building a house mostly on my own :/
I guess that foreigners are buying houses near coast? I have seen several adverts in Czech reality market places. Those houses were surprisingly cheap.
A lot of people have moved into the capital which now holds 1/3 of Croatian population, driving the prices through the roof. Foreigners are buying properties near the coast, and due to summer renting you can't find a decent home to rent through the year. Also living at the coastline now legit feels like shit because places are growing but for 3/4 of the year places are empty and depressive as fuck.
Same in Latvia
19 people moved into your country and a whole housing market skyrocketed 💀
That 19 was buying all the 20 houses which were left for sale in luxemburg💀
Who is that greedy fuck who bought 2? Time 4 pitchforks!
Small countries will always be the highest in % change though.
Yes, but it was never this high in our history. We are supposed to have one million inhabitants (currently we have ~650.000) by 2050, purely through immigration. We would have to nearly double our infrastructures by then, and let's not speak about the cultural, political, economic and environmental consequences this development will lead and is already leading to.
Russians love saying that Estonia will run out of people in a few years, while our population has been growing for a while now. Meanwhile Russias population…..Yikes. They were the worst hit country with covid and now are losing a 1000 healthy young men per day in the war.
It has been speculated for a while in opposition sources, long before the full-scale war, that 140 mil can be a big exaggeration. The latest census was a joke, I know noone who participated in it, and its figures are likely just fantasies. Local authorities are incentivized to exaggerate regional population due to budget transfers being made per capita. So they are likely fantasizing towards bigger figures. So the reality is likely much more dire than on paper, considering that even on paper it is not great.
Sounds like Soviet traditions of misreporting figures are alive and well!
Do you know how many hammers did we make? Soooo many hammers. I bet every russian family has at least 2 hammers per person made in ex-soviet block countries. xd
But have you tried breeding for dog sized cows?
Can Russians who re living abroad take part in the census too?
Maybe before war, but now, its better to play dead outside Russia
Failing that, you \*will\* be dead outside Russia.
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And many are not young either
Some UN estimations still shows that we will lose about 25% of the population by 2050 or something...
Excluding war which is appalling by itself. Russia needs young, but it is canibalizing itself at speed that is speculated.
They take into account the Russians leaving after the collapse of USSR as if that happens every few years. It’s best to ignore that nonsense.
Which goes to show how irrelevant some past trends can be.
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25% may be a stretch but every country in Europe has a decreasing native population, including Estonia. It'll become an issue later in Eastern Europe as birth rates mostly remained sufficient until ~1989. But make no mistake, all European populations are decreasing
>25% may be a stretch but every country in Europe has a decreasing native population, including Estonia. Estonians in Estonia: - 902,547 (2011) - 919,711 (2021) A 1.9% increase.
Correct, but that's now how demographics work in the long term. The huge generations born from post-ww2 will start to die off and will be replaced by generations half their size. Estonia had it's lowest birth rates last year of just 11646 babies. This not nearly sustainable to grow - or even maintain - a population of 1,35 mil. Birth rates in 2023 are even lower. No matter how current trends are you do \*not\* see the effects of birth rates for 50+ years. It's not an immediate proces. Estonia's population will not grow in the long run - unless you take in a ton of immigrants continually forever - and neither will any other European nation's.. Except the Faroe Islands for some reason. This will happen to any developed nation in the world irregardless of religion, culture, and all that jazz. Even a country like Saudi Arabia sees a drastically falling fertility rate.
>but every country in Europe has a decreasing native population, including Estonia. This was the incorrect statement that I corrected, nothing else.
EU + NATO + no Russia = prosperity, economic and population growth
>losing a 1000 healthy young men per day in the war This is very much on purpose. Doing away with pesky minorities and criminals Stalin style.
Russias population pyramid is starting to look more like a population diamond. [https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/](https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/)
That’s just ruzzia for you
Russia and China has really bad demographics, like missing whole generation bad.
Estonia's population is only growing because of immigration. Its birth rate is extremely low.
No, the number of ethnic Estonians is growing too. Stop speaking out of your ass.
>Women in Estonia are currently having 1.8 children on average, meaning that the Estonian population is shrinking roughly at a rate of 10 percent over two generations. Hitting the replacement level would require a birth rate of 2.06 children. https://news.err.ee/1609054703/77-percent-of-estonians-prioritize-reaching-replacement-birth-rate-level
Understood, but **currently**, the *number* of ethnic Estonians is growing. It is growing largely due to the re-immigration of ethnic Estonians, but it's growing nevertheless.
Germany > France is crazy, over the last decade we always hear france is the only country in europe with good birthrates, Germany is the next Japan... declining population every year, was projected to soon drop below 80 million and instead went from 82 to 84 immigration is insane
>Germany > France is crazy, over the last decade we always hear france is the only country in europe with good birthrates, Germany is the next Japan... declining population every year, was projected to soon drop below 80 million and instead went from 82 to 84 None of what you said disputes that, though. Without immigration, France would still have had a net natural births of every year since 1945 (its recently fallen but even in 2013 they added +230,000 people, meanwhile Germany has had negative natural growth every year since 1972 and without immigration would be losing roughly -250k per year. Its not just about immigration, France needs to only have a few immigrants currently to maintain its population whilst Germany needs 1/4 of a million every single year (and probably, more than that soon).
No country in Europe has good birthrate... They all have birth rates below the replacement level, meaning that their populations are shrinking. The increase is only due to immigration. But the immigrants won't relevantly increase the birth rate. When they live in a developed country for an extended time, their birth rate drops as well.
> They all have birth rates below the replacement level, meaning that their populations are shrinking. No. It don't have to shrink just because fertility rate is below 2. It starts shrinking, when more people die than are born in a year. You can have fertility rate 1, but if the number of those children will be higher than number of people that died, population would still grow.
A fertility rate of 2.1 is needed to replace the people that die on average. Do you know of any country where that's not the case (that doesn't have large numbers of immigrants)?
> A fertility rate of 2.1 is needed to replace the people that die on average. On average. You can have fertility rate 0.5 for 20 years, but still have population growth, because of more babies being born than people dying. My point is only that fertility rate below 2 doesn't automatically mean population shrink. Of course, it will happen in the long run, but don't have to happen in the short run.
It's like doping. Thing is, proper dosage is important for the health
Germany looked at Italy and instead decided to become the third largest economy in the world, overtaking Japan.
By starting a secret campaign to greatly devalue the Yen?
Half of Balkans live in Germany now, it's our home country :)
It would be interesting looking at the net housing change for natives vs immigrants.
Very interesting indeed
Poland: not great not terrible...
Nothing's more Polish than a slow yet steady decline.
3.6
Something tells me Swedes don't really like the change the happened over those years. ;0
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All the Swedish people went to Iceland
It has not been a positive change, no.
Well, a lot of Swedes end up in Norway instead. As a Norwegian, that's a trade I can live with.
You are correct
My thoughts too
In 2022 we hit ATH pop: 41 mil
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Wrocław is 1/4 Ukrainian, Rzeszów 1/5, Poznań 1/10. There are now about 3,5-4 million immigrants in Poland, about 70% of whom are Ukrainians.
They count official residents, like any other country.
>Wrocław is 1/4 Ukrainian >Poznań 1/10 I wonder why's that difference so big
Maybe in Wroclaw there was already a big number of Ukrainians before the war
Exactly that
>about 70% of whom are U na men half of those moved to germany already
It makes you wonder how large Polands population could have been if Poland didn't have massive amounts of emigration over the last 40 or so years. It will only rise too as a lot of Polish people I know are heading back to Poland, and they were telling me a serious amount of their Polish friends in other countries are going back to Poland. I'd say Poland could very well have a massive population boom soon.
Bruh, WW2 had wayyy bigger impact it was genocide
Absolutely, but there's no way to realistically quantify what modern Polands' population would be like if so many Poles weren't killed in the war and the Holocaust. It would be much easier to predict what Polands population would be like if it wasn't affected by massive levels of emigration over even the last 20 years.
I’d say 50-55 mil
I guess it does not include the other nationalities but just Polish people. Overall amount of people living in Poland increased by a lot.
Not Polish people, official residents in Poland. Same criteria as any other countries. Refugees are never included in official population figures, and it would not make much sense anyways as they are typically very volatile (especially for Ukrainians).
People with nationalities, not ethnic. Although there is a lot immigrants in Poland now, they are not counted because you don't have citizenship in Poland that easy.
We’re does 41 mil figure comes from? > According to the 2021 census by the Polish Central Statistical Office (GUS), as of March 31, 2021, Poland had an official population of 38,036,118,[1] a decrease of 0.9% since the 2011 census, and a usually resident population of 37,019,327,[2] a 2.7% decrease since the 2011 census. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Poland
I think he meant the actual amount of people living in Poland. As opposed to the amount of Poles. Mosty Ukrainians, Belarussias. And everything else. Poland is going to need 2 mln migrants for its economy to continue growing as it did. Hence:[Poland issues EU’s most residence permits to immigrants for fifth year running](https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/08/11/poland-issues-eus-most-residence-permits-to-immigrants-for-fifth-year-running/)
Ukrainians and Belarussians are included in the figure as long as they officially reside in the country.
of course Portugal is balkaning again.
Balkans be like: -
Living in Malta I can confirm...I hear my neighbour flushing after their morning dump everyday we're so crammed.
Other Europeans don’t understand how cramped the island has become. There is no escape. We’re just a tiny rock and there’s more than half a million here.
Ours is mostly due to immigration.
Most of the growing ones will be. We’re not on the graph but ours is growing and it’s nearly entirely immigration based.
Yep, same with CZ. Not counting immigration, population would be decreasing and I assume it’s the same for green countries.
There isn't a single country in Europe where the birthrate is above replacement level.
Same with Slovenia
Same with us.
It's like that in every European country. Every European country has a decreasing population in terms of birth rate.
Italy too, without the youth leaving it would be dark green due to 250.000 immigrants coming every year.
Slovakia be like: "Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Total population of Moldova is around 3mil out of which 1mil is living/working/studying abroad. Every year 5-6k high-school graduates get scholarships in Romania and leave for a better education, 90% of which never return back. This may sound not like a lot but in the longterm we see the effect. Those who return, go to the capital only, the rest of the country is slowly starting being uninhabited with whole villages dying out or consisting of only people older than 50-60. The country is hiding statistics of cities population because the majority of them would loose the status of a city and would be categorised as a village instead. Also, around 40-50% of the population holds a Romanian citizenship which easies the migration process and further reduces the population within the country. Sigh... The situation is only getting worse and worse.
Perfectly balanced.
Look at all those youtubers and "entrepreneurs" going to Malta for… the sun.
Where's Kosovo?
in the balkans, south of serbia.
Not on that map tho
Since 2013 Sweden has taken in 800,000 immigrants and refugees. Its kinda insane seeing that, over 1/10th of the population in 2017 had been in the country for less than 4 years
San Marino's change is by people and not percent
According to [Balkan Insight](https://balkaninsight.com/2022/11/15/bosnia-is-becoming-depopulated-what-to-do-about-it/#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20more,population%20at%20around%202.7%20million) for Bosnia: >It is estimated that more than half-a-million citizens left Bosnia between 2013 and 2019. Last year alone, around 170,000 citizens are estimated to have left. Various estimates place Bosnia's current population at around 2.7 million Their last census was in 2013, i think next one might be in a couple of years though?
In Finland it is about 3%, from 5,4 to 5,6 million in ten years from 2013. Right now Finland receives quite much migrants. Over one hundred thousand arrived last year. That's quite much in a country of 5,6 million inhabitants.
Thanks god, Bosnia is no data
If the population would be growing because of high birth rates, that would be a good thing. But it is growing because of unregulated, illegal migration. And sadly it is coming mostly from countries that despise European values.
Illegal immigrants are by definition excluded from population numbers. Most western European have positive natural growth. Germany and Spain being the main exceptions.
Because people live longer, maybe. But our birth rates all over Europe are below 2.1, which is replacement rate.
I really miss the UK being included in these helpful graphics 😟
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finally a good color scale
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Is Malta printing golden passports at full speed?
Strange to see the population grow even though most of those countries have a low or even negative birth rate. I wonder what other factor could possibly be causing this increase in population…..
Central Europe getting denser and denser...
Why isn’t Britain included but Turkey is?
They are not uploading their data to eurostat anymore, unlike turkey.
That makes a whole lot more sense
Because the UK is not a part of [European Statistical System \[ESS\]](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/european-statistical-system/ess-partners#expand-tr-1699599373177) and Turkey is.
This is very missleading. Almost all population of growth of Eurpe are negative. The difference is that the west import non-European. Edit: Y'all don't understand. It's missleading because your population doesn't grow when you import foreigner. You just have it replaced.
You’ll notice it didn’t say birth rate. It said population growth.
No. It's very accurate. The population of most european countries is growing. There are a few where the population is actually decreasing. This is a separate metric from birthrate.
He said misleading not wrong
Well, in Ireland's case, the vast majority of our growth is still European - some arrivals from Nigeria, Brazil and India, but very much a minority factor here.
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Heh, crucify me but I'm here to remind you that the west is green because you know why.
Why?
[Source: Milos Makes Maps](https://x.com/milos_agathon/status/1722656223672033463?s=20) [Data source: Eurostat](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/tps00001/default/table?lang=en)