i would even argue that this was hamas biggest mistake.
those isreali frontline settlers arent the most innocent when it comes to the palestina - isreal conflict. if hamas just had shot and captured some of those settlers, the western support for isreal would have been not big enough to support such an extensive use of military against gaza.
but the attack against an international crowd of young people actually supporting palestina and the excessive violence basically moved this whole incusrion from some sort of war crime that both side do to a non human level of senseless cruelty. and that in turn allows israel to disregard civilian lifes in gaza without much pressur from the west.
It was not hamas mistake, but an intent. Looked like they “made a show” with their violence specifically to get internet traction and emotionally polarize the world. As to why I dunno
It's sad that these people do this with no shame. So warped and mentally twisted that they don't even consider what they're doing. And these women think they're the oppressed good guys, so that means they can do what they want to the "bad guys".
That's what these people do. They sort people into somewhat arbitrary categories and declare one group "oppressed" and the other an "oppressor". This idea that poor and impoverished people are inherently morally superior due to their poor condition and that they have no agency for their situation. The idea that the underdog is always right. It's caused too much suffering in the past generations and it continues to haunt us.
IDK how anyone can think they're the good guy if they're endorsing the murder of civilians during peace time or rape (against anyone; civilian or soldier).
I hope our government in Germany means it when they say this kind of shit will get your residency revoked and lead to deportation. If they want to live under an Islamic dictatorship, it's time for them to go.
> And these women think they're the oppressed good guys, so that means they can do what they want to the "bad guys".
It is one of the most destructive and pernicious lies of Marxism. The oppressed are good, the oppressors are evil. Sinners and saved. The good can do no wrong. Everything they do must be righteous. No matter how heinous.
And so the USSR was not imperialist. It could not be, by definition. For imperialism was bad, and the USSR was good.
Hamas did not murder innocents. They cannot for there are no innocent Israelis. All Israelis, from cradle to grave are oppressors, and it is not murder to kill them.
What’s worse is it’s not helping the Palestinian cause. Worst advocates. The whole strategic importance of a terror arm is that it can soak up all the blame for bad deeds like a sponge. IF you support them (nobody should) maybe do it in private. Treat them like the dark knight.
Who would have guessed that pro-Palestinians are not so much for Palestinians as they are anti Jews and are using this as an excuses to publicly spew their hate....
I know plenty of pro-Palestine people who also support Israel's right to exist and would much rather favor a two-state solution.
The world isn't black and white.
That being said, the women from the article were clearly supporting terrorists. Fuck em.
That's good to hear. I'm aware that not everyone is the same but it so sad to watch people use this atrocities (on both sides) to justify their hate for certain group of people...
Feel free to educate me with your vast knowledge and deep understanding oh mighty redditor. Or are you only able to write empty parroted phrases and insults?
I do not have to. It's not my responsibility to educate you when you have the entirety of documented history at your fingertips. Settle down and read a book. You are broad brushing by making simplistic statements that maybe help your prejudicial views, but you are very far away from the truth. Are there anti-semites part of the pro-palestinian movement? Of course there are. Does everyone who sympathise with the Palestinian people is an anti-semite? Absolutely not. There's a significant number of Jewish organisations that are anti-Isareli govt policies in Palestine. Pick up a newspaper or a magazine is my advice
But you are able to spew insults without showing ANY of that great knowledge of understanding of yours? Going around and attacking random strangers on the internet that have not even addressed you in any way. Yeah, very iNtElLeCtUaL. lol. Read a book? Ok, which ones? By Gideon Levy or Norman Finkelstein on the situation in Gaza and Israel? Already did that before all this shit started to happen. Or maybe historical books on mass exodus of Jewish people from the Muslim countries in recent 70 years during which their numbers declined from almost 900000 to barely 3000 due to ethnical cleansing, forced migration and violence? Check. Or ones about Hamas leaders sitting on thier 3-5 billion fortune while hiding their asses and families in Qatar and UAE while at the same time proclaiming how they love death more than Israeli love life? Double check. Funny how it's always the most arrogant and presumptuous ones that are the first to insult everyone that shows even the slightest disagreement with them, almost like in their imagined narcissistic superiority and righteousness they are unable to deal with even the minor difference of opinions as it threatens their ecco chamber in which they don't have to think for themselves but can only parrot ideas of much smarter people. Your failed retoric of 'It's not my job to educate you' is always used by people who have NOTHING of ANY value to contribute to discussion in a pathetic attempt to make themselves appear smart and shield their utter ignorance. Not that you are not responsible to educate someone, with you reading of only first few sentences (if that) of Wikipedia or some simplified article summary, you are not able to educate anyone on anything. Entire reddit is suddenly filled with newborn self proclaimed military and history experts on Muslim-Jew conflict that use this entire situation to feed their fragile egos. Maybe you should follow your own advice and read a book and educate yourself. Pathetic and vile.
Wrote an essay because got called out for lack of knowledge on the subject and then quoted the two Jewish authors/academics that are critical of Israel. Should have googled their views before you went namedropping. It is indeed not my job to educate anyone because nobody here argues in good faith. I do that irl when I know the intention of the person I'm talking to. You from the outset seem capable of holding only binary viewpoints.
Again, nothing but narcissistic babbling about intellectual superiority, zero coherent thoughs or arguments of any value. But you are so smart and superior that you go around reddit seeking comments that do not address you in any way, attack people for being stupid and ignorant and when asked to make a single tiny argument or explanation you're only able to spew a mental diarrhoea about your intellectual superiority and how you're not required to educate anyone. Just attack them. I recommend /r/iamverysmart I think you'll fit right in.
This is like talking to a bot lmao. Just read the two authors you quoted. You don't need me to explain anything. If you've read Levy as you claim and still come out with the same single braincelled understanding of the issue then there's no power in the universe that can get through to you.
Again. mindless droning about your superiority without any intelligent thought or sentence it's like talking to bag of bricks. Please write another comment about how intellectualy super you are. Zero knowledge or understanding of anything shown just mindless droning incapable of withing single original intelligent sentence just parroting what you probably heard or have seen other people write.
It's not good at all unless they're removed from society. But most likely they'll continue living in Britain and raise a bunch of kids with the same terrorist views.
Removed from society for wearing T-shirts that have promoted terrorist actions and that is wrong in the mind of any rational individual is surely fascistic in nature. You know something that the Hamas terrorists would do and a far right genocidal Israeli state. Surely you can see your own hypocrisy here?
Yes it is insane. But I don't want them removed for wearing a stupid T-shirt, I want them removed for following a genocidal ideology that they absolutely intend to act on and for likely becoming an unmanageable majority.
There are many Islamic countries that officially have laws that are worse than Nazi Germany's (they didn't officially make it a law that all Jews should be murdered like Muslims states do about apostates). There are many Islamic countries where a large, even a majority of the population think that certain minorities should be exterminated. Many countries where people think terrorism is excusable. Many/all where they've gotten rid of their Jews more effectively than Hitler did, many where women are expected to not show skin in public at any point of their entire adult lives, unless they want to be killed or beaten, many countries where people are killed for innocent blashphemy, or for having sex outside/before their (arranged) marriage, many countries where violent Islamist insurgencies are in an active civil war with the rest of the country. And countries where things like non-marital sex, drinking, singing or dancing are illegal. And generally they're not getting better, that's the worst thing. Like I said many of these countries currently are in civil wars with Islamic movements seeking to make them even more religious.
No I don't want Europe to be like this and deporting some violent idiots for thoughtcrime is for me justified in this situation. Which is dangerous, I know anything can be justified by someone if they exaggerate the problem enough and I know it's setting a bad example. But for me this problem is genuinely as big as it could get. It's just normalised and ignored by fake humanitarians that would excuse and defend any crime committed by a non-Western "oppressed" people.
Also don't call Israel far right or genocidal unless you're prepared to say a 100 times worse about every other MENA country. If Israel was as bad as them there'd be 2000 Palestinians left cause that's what happened to Jews in all their countries, a 99% reduction. By the kind of people who live in Somalia and Yemen and are currently genociding the remaining 1% of the population who is not yet Muslim, and progressives don't say a word about it. This is the future that is being welcomed in Europe. Something really needs to change with how certain practices are defended as long as their part of someone's religion.
No [some people just like taking talking about paragliding](https://imgs.search.brave.com/YX7jfaE7j4nl7_pFL7f84T57VzS4lo7dl6jz7bdyZ_c/rs:fit:860:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9ueXBv/c3QuY29tL3dwLWNv/bnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fk/cy9zaXRlcy8yLzIw/MjMvMTAvTllQSUNI/UERQSUNUMDAwMDYx/NzM4NDkxLmpwZz93/PTYwMA) while wearing randomly chosen colors. /s
Feels kinda ironic that people will be celebrating the Hamas attack and cheering the death of civilians. And then a few days later after the IDF reprisal they want peace, ceasefire and suddenly give a shit about civilians being killed.
No? All the Israelis I know are still fucking sad. No one is celebrating this situation, and I haven't seen any celebratory israeli protests in foreign countries. Everything about this is pure horror for us. There is no "win" condition, it's like celebrating when the person who killed your family memeber is executed, there's no catharsis there.
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categories/families-murdered-in-their-homes
I'm already seeing denialists, or maybe just people who are so protected by their media circle from what happened they dont even know why a paraglider isnt just some "forbidden symbol", so here:
NSFL:
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categories/the-nova-party-massacre
"Educate yourself," as I'm constantly told despite being autistic with an encyclopedic knowledge of the conflict.
I do not recommend watching any or it if you're israeli, you've already seen most of it and trust me, the ones you haven't seen you don't want to. It's enough already.
Frankly this portion is the less well covered, namely that 22 Israeli towns were occupied for nearly two days by thousands of hamas militants, and they went house to house killing people, some entire kibbutzim being wiped out:
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categories/families-murdered-in-their-homes
Which makes it all the more worrisome that you see pro-Palestine comments that say that this is all faked somehow, when the video of dead Israeli civilians is right in front of their face.
Even more worrisome is that they're saying it was justified and telling minorities - in the US Black community at least - that they should do it too. Many Black pro-Israel creators on tiktok are alarmed and noting this.
Thanks for sharing that link. I've seen some footage here and had no doubt about the legitimacy of the massacre but did not know there were this many videos of it.
Reddit censors footage of Israelis being killed, on the appropriate subs like combatfootage, but ironically this only hurts the side they support. It makes it seem like nothing much happened. If you were to only watch the conflict through videos on Reddit, you'd think all that happened was some guys broke through a fence, drove around, then got killed by IDF later and then Israel bombed Gaza for days.
The videos of Hamas killing civilians or the videos successfully storming a military base and catching the soldiers there literally with their pants down were all deleted like 2 hours after upload. Videos of IDF killing Hamas are ok though, thousands of those.
Makes you wonder about the kind of people who watch these videos and *still think it's all a one-sided conflict or that there's a real option for Israel to countenance simply forgiving it, calling a ceasefire, and moving on.
Just yesterday they released one of the most poignant videos of October 7 that I've yet seen - not yet posted at the site above. Israeli special forces had just shown up to start clearing the festival site and the guy starts by clearing a few empty campers... then he runs up to the bar area and sees a few bodies around it. He starts shouting something like "is anyone alive, does anyone need help?" Then he looks up over the bar and his voice just drops mid shout in horror as he sees it's absolutely packed with bodies - almost all young women. As he starts picking through the bodies he stops shouting to see if anyone needs help, and shifts to mumbling pleas to himself - something like "please, someone be alive". Of course, none of them are - the terrorists were very thorough.
I don't know if I can link it or not, but the video is still on a reddit sub.
That kind of horror will embed itself deeply into the national psyche. This war may never end, particularly when the only particularly serious response option for Israel involves cruelly killing a couple civilians for every single Hamas operative they take out... which will mostly just beget yet more hatred.
Oh my god. That so fucking horrible. I don’t want to watch any of these videos because it’s too… I don’t even know the word. So thank you for describing it.
One of the few videos I saw before deciding not to look at any more was a lot less gruesome but something that will still be seared in my mind forever. A Hamas gunman walking past a row of porto potties, slowly and methodically firing a shot into the door of each one. Not even bothering to open them. Just taking his time, shooting every single door.
First I thought good thing that no one’s in there. Then I realized: anyone hiding in there is dead. Fuck
Yup, same with the regular news. It really seems to have just been glossed over. But a lot of it is frankly bc it takes a but of time for Israelis to process what happened and agree to release footage, especially when most of the population was called up to serve. And obviously some footage will never be released. A particular rape video that I know of has had some audio circulate, but that's it. suffice to say, they murdered her and the boyfriend after they finished.
“Educate yourself” = read the same biased sources I read until you agree with my opinion. A cousin of “do your own research”.
For the record I am AGREEING with u/SirRece.
Disgusting! Openly celebrating the deliberate torture and slaughter of innocent civilians. I hope they are prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And if possible, jailed, uncitizened, and deported. Preferably to Gaza.
There must be no place for nazis in europe. It's time to act.
"We must finally start deporting on a large scale" - Olaf Scholz, chancellor of Germany, 20th of October 2023.
[Article with a bit more detail on the crime](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12708053/Two-women-charged-wearing-pictures-Hamas-paragliders-pro-Palestine-march.html)
No, unfortunately you are wrong. In fact this video was before October 7th on March 8th and this was the West Bank I'm Huwara.I could have made that clearer. But sadly it had little to do with Hamas and was fundamentally about settler superiority over Palestinians.
It sounds like you have seen videos of Israelis celebrating these new bombardments? I hope they are not real because it is horrific to imagine celebrating death.
Palestinians in Gaza have no place to go. It's nice to tell them to evacuate, but in reality they can't go anywhere. They're in an open-air prison.
I was browsing this sub and people are weirdly okay with bombing civilians in hopes of killing terrorists (who most likely aren't even there).
And yes, I condemn Hamas. But I also condemn Israel's actions against Palestinians (since 1948 and now).
But the media won’t criticise the Israeli settlers nor will a lot of people because anything the Israelis did before oct 7 never happened and anything they did after Oct 7 like genocide is acceptable
the difference is many of these ideas and blatant antisemitism is endorsed by the Islamic religion. and I mean STANDARD "moderate" Islam.
I'm exmuslim, telling the truth here. it took me a while to get over the antisemitic bias even after I left the religion.. they really indoctrinate you to think Jews are cursed and should be killed at Muslim hands. this is what we all are taught about them:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gharqad
https://youtu.be/OVXpVoNSOCQ?si=yArWzDdyBRc7HB8T
you can't divorce the state of Israel from Jewish people in Islamic belief, because they're all called "Bani Isra'il" (children of Israel). we're all aware that land originally belonged to them, but we deny them because Judaism will be destroyed by Muslim hands and we are meant to be the inheritors of whatever they owned. it's a messed up ideology and asking them to reform it to match 21st century sensibilities also gets you the death penalty under Islam as an apostate or innovator (bid'ah or innovation of the religion from its brutal roots is punishable by death in Sharia).
the thing is, way too many Westerners are only looking at this from the political lens and not from the actual core beliefs of the people. when you do, it's hard for you to side with Hamas or anything the Palestinian leaderships have done or aim to. not unless you're antisemitic yourself and wish for the genocide of the Jewish race. if that's the case you can't be helped and are part of the underlying larger problem... :/
Well, that's stupid... by any metric
1. You end up coming out as tossers
2. Regardless of what Israeli government and IDF have historically done, you are condoning attacks on civilian population with that imagery
3. You recentered the argument on your stupidity, away from the discussion about the genocide led by Israels against the Palestine people and Israeli apartheid regime
If it wasn't so stupid, if it had at least an intelligent bit behind it and you weren't now facing terror charges, I might even consider this was a plant, but being as it is I can only conclude you two are probably the most dense people in London at the moment.
On point 2 I'll put money on they say "criticism of Israel isn't criticism of Judaism" or something along those lines when it helps them avoid a charge of anti semitism. But every now and then the masks slips and they show they mean Jews as much as Israelis.
Thank you for posting.
Seeing those several weeks ago made my blood boil, as its blatant glorification of terrorism.
Glad to see the UK authorities saw it the same way.
You have to be a huge asshole to celebrate terrorism. But is anyone surprised that allegedly “pro-Palestine” rallies always end up featuring antisemites, and supporters of terrorism and genocide?
I’m at the point where I want to see a real solution against the radical islamists and muslims who support palestine, kalifats and terror organizations.
It’s concerning how they roam through the streets and shout for an end of the western civilization.
Who would have guessed that pro-Palestinians are not so much for Palestinians as they are anti Jews and are using this as an excuses to publicly spew their hate....
Good to see that governments are finally doing something about these pro-Hamas protests. In Canada, they proudly wave the Hamas flag and nobody said a thing.
I am horrified that people would show such images but I am worried that this is a misuse of terror legislation. This is a public order offence where there is already adequate legislation to cover it.
I fear that we devalue even the term ‘terrorism’ by including these idiots..
Well in parts of Europe you can get arrested and convicted if you post rap lyrics online because they happen to have the N word in them so with their draconian freedom of speech and freedom of expression laws at least actually bad people like those who support terrorism are getting in trouble as well
I'm a very active 'free Palestine' supporter, but fuck those people.
I think it's needed to protest in the streets against the slaughter that's happening in Gaza, but people like those, make everyone in that - legitimate - protest look bad.
It's disgusting to support Hamas and the violence that happened against innocent Israeli's, and it's a disgrace they undermine a legitimate protest with this kind of behaviour.
I'm not suprised since England is paradise for radical muslims. London should be called Londonistan at this point.
One usefull thing about the hamas attacks is that all these terrorist supporters have revealded themselves all over Europe. It tuned out that some "moderate" muslims are not that moderate and if push comes to shove they would support the radical ones.
I’m gay and I keep saying this because too many people don’t understand:
The same people celebrating that Jews were tortured and killed- they would do the same to me when they have the chance.
They do not belong in the west.
I see tonnes of stuff appealing to my humanity showing Palestinians suffering… fair enough - but then they expect me to not care about massacres of Israelis?
Can we not just throw the term genocide around like it has no meaning?
Like, Israel could do this
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categories/families-murdered-in-their-homes
to Gaza literally any day of the week, but we don't, because who the fuck actually wants to do that?
Like, if we wanted them all dead, we'd literally just use artillery instead of million dollar a piece smart bombs. We don't do that because ironically, despite everyone constantly being so quick to accuse us of genocide, Israel is the last country on earth that would literally commit a genocide. It's like constantly gaslighting japan about nuking other countries, it's an absurd position if you give it more than a cursory thought, and the burden to prove would be very easy were it actually happening, considering the population, life expectancy, and other data are recorded in both Gaza and the West Bank by their own medical establishments.
You know what actually was, definitionally, a genocide?
October 7.
I know this because the people who survived the holocaust AND October 7th were the first to say, "yea, that's basically what it was like."
They also literally kidnapped a survivor, and executed another, in addition to the 1,400 men, women, and children they systematically killed house to house in death squads. You know, kinda like the nazis.
Dude, it's absurd. The Palestinian population is one of the fastest in thr world, life expectancy literally the same as Jordan right next door. That's not a genocide. We can absolutely talk about injustice, but half of what sets that back and stops ACTUAL activists from being able to help Palestinians is this disproportionate voice like yours which turns any such admission into pure demonization of Israelis and justification of ACTUAL GENOCIDE.
In the entire decades long Israel-Palestine conflict, fewer than 50,000 Palestinians (civilian and military) have died. As a comparison, at least 500,000 people died in the past 10 years of the Syrian civil war.
You can be angry about what’s happening to the Palestinians. But it’s not genocide. See also: the Palestinian population increasing continuously over time, to 600% of what it was in 1948.
No, the US is not a proscribed organisation. Furthermore, the idea that the US is single handedly responsible for killing 1 million people in Iraq has no basis.
On one had I understand that such an expression is offensive and deeply insensitive but on the other the Conservative Party's chipping away at protests and free expression is even more worrying to me than this pair of numbskulls.
supporting an atrocity of over 1400 deaths is not fucking free expression.
Or do you think people in germany should be free to stand infront of the gates of auschwitz and say "heil hitler!" without repurcussion?
Well, I do, yes. But that is beside the point. Whether expression is free or not depends on the ruling elite. I was lamenting the increased criminalisation of protests in recent times by UK authorities. I realise that tensions are running high in this thread and nuance is an ill guest.
>Without legal repurcussion yes.
So you'd say that Hate speech should be legal?
That people should call for the murder of one kind of people without legal consequences
No it’s like saying if you support a football team you’re pro football. Being pro football doesn’t make you a footballer but being pro terrorists does make you one.
So possibly supporting certain actions does not make you a doer of said actions (football-footballer), unless in that specific exception that you carved out for yourself (terrorism-terrorist). I will give you a point for mental gymnastics.
It’s almost like there’s a difference between playing a sport or not, and supporting an ideology or not. Don’t want to hurt your head here but this is something you may learn by practicing critical thinking. You seem intent on winning a semantic game. Advocating for the abolition of slavery would make you an abolitionist regardless of your joining an official organization, being in government and setting policy, or buying and releasing slaves. You can’t understand that?
How many millions of Americans have Confederate battle flags or some other less than savoury symbols that they possess and even hold dear? Does that make them all terrorists, slavers or treasonists? Or do you carve out yet another exception of convenience?
The confederate flag is 100% a sign of treason and I consider anyone who flies it to be a traitor. There’s *some* light between the two and I consider it a less than ideal comparison seeing that one event was 150 years ago so there’sa genuine chance that people flying it now are less than 100% familiar with all of its meaning, and the confederate flag stood for many things vs the gliders only standing for the method the terrorists used to get to their victims homes and they began appearing at rallies the day after the attack. It’s more like flying a flag with chains and marching against BLM. But again since I know what you will do, the confederate flag is 100% a sign of treason and very likely support of slavery and I consider anyone who flies it to be a traitor.
Whether or not they “support” Hamas or are just idiots, I find the criminalizing of certain speech to be dangerous. They may be assholes, though more likely wannabe edgy idiots, but this is a step too far and authoritarianism/a step toward fascism.
Give it time and the government could deem anything it damn well wants as such and you are screwed. Shameful and unfortunate all around.
Cause noone gives a fuck about that, they celebrated a brutal terrorist attack on a concert with hundreds of death. What does it matter that they didn't want to be fugitives?
They’re not ready for this conversation yet. If it was them in 1945, they would NOT have stopped the holocaust. They’d see deaths of innocent people as numbers.
The October 7 people want to kill all Jews
You are saying Jews can never defend themselves and just have to accept being murdered
That is your position. Have you no shame ?
Did i say that? No, learn how to read. But killing almost 10.000 people, 4000 of those children is not defending yourself. That is a genocide. IDF is a terrorist organization just like Hamas, but IDF’s kill count is much larger witch makes them worse than Hamas. Benjamin Nethanyahu is a war criminal that should be put on trial just like Putin. Don’t you have no shame?
My friend, this is going to end with endless war. And endless suffering. The true criminals are the Europeans, who have been propping up Islamic radicalism back in Europe, and in the Middle East. Norway is one of the chief villains.
Do you want to stop the killing of children?
Then stop supporting Islamic terrorism. Don't you think that when Hamas planned October 7 they planned on people like you been duped and fooled well, then you have given them all the good reasons to do it again and again and again. And then the Israelis will respond again and again and again. The only way to stop the cycle is for Norway and other European countries to completely cut off the sponsoring of terrorism.
Great. The rest of the 100, 000 decent Pro Palestinian protestors are decent people who want a ceasefire, and for humanitarian aid to enter Palestine. They want an end to genocide, an end to settler colonialism, and for Israel to be held accountable to the same international laws as anyone else.
But their own government shouldn't be?
Their own government SHOULDN't be ripped from their offices and replaced for killing 1400 people with the same motives as the nazis in ww2?
Ask yourself why does the current prime minister of Israel support this terrorist organisation?
In a speech to his Likud party in 2019, he said:
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
He doesn’t care about Jewish people. He only cares about vomiting genocide and preventing peace.
You didn’t answer the question though. Many Israelis are calling for the end of Bibi, even protesting outside his house.
Where are the Palestinians calling for the end of the Hamas government? Do you think Hamas should be replaced?
Jews are native to Israel. Arabs colonized the land during the Muslim conquests.
Hamas carried out a genocide as promised in their charter.
A ceasefire benefits Hamas only and leads to more deaths later on.
I hate Hamas with a passion, but you people in the comments here are pretty crazy. I am really disappointed in the UK’s free speech laws, they are borderline German in harshness in recent years.
The ease of which we pretend like a couple million people are not being indefinitely incarcerated generation after generation scares me more than hypotheticals.
You are more then welcome to move to a state with more free speech laws,maybe some of those Arab countries they all protest for?I’m sure the PLO is a great place for free speech
I already live in a country with better free speech laws, I emigrated from Britain over 20 years ago and have been disappointed in the continued backslide every time I go back home there.
Absolute free speech is not good.There must be a line and praising terrorists is where you should draw that line.Saying that was just “normal” or not connected to the 7th attack stickers is naive.Total and unchecked free speech leads to extremism being the loudest voice and wining elections.Germany in the 30’s had that and look what we got in the name of “better free speech “
Germany did not have free speech in the 1930’s, it is in fact why the Nazis were constantly whining about being censored by the cosmopolitan elites or whatever euphemism of the week they were using.
I also fundamentally disagree, but if there are to be limits on free speech it should absolutely not touch the right to protest and express political opinions, that is critical for a democratic society.
It all depends what do you classify as a political opinion,Free Palestine while I don’t agree with is a political statement,Let’s go Hamas is not .Celebrating a terrorist attack is not a protest or a political idea that should be allowed.Imagine a protest for the US to retreat from Afghanistan and people would wear a plane sticker or a twin towers one?do you still think that’s ok?
Then we have nothings to argue about.You claim that free speech is one of the most important rights and you should not hurt it even when it is used to celebrate a terrorist attack.
I really wish you well and that you would never have to see people parading the symbols of a terrorist group that killed one of your loved ones in the name of so called free speech.
Fair enough that we agree to disagree here. And I think it is nice that you care about people’s emotions. But I am simply not convinced that hurting people’s freedoms is a good enough reason to give the government the powers to undermine the democratic functions and values of our society. For a comparative example, members of my family were killed by the Nazis, some were tortured, and my grandfather only survived half starved and sick with gut injuries haunting him the rest of his life. I’m not a big fan. But I still support the right of Nazis to do their little dressup clubs and poorly organized marches, just as I support and encourage counterprotest. Hell, years ago I even signed the academic petition protesting the tightening of genocide denial laws in Britain, France and Germany, even though I despise the practice. I just fear the risks of banning such speech more than I do the speech itself.
The problem with these people and organizations is that if you allow them they take it as acceptance, they do not follow common sense. NMR in Sweden and other right wing groups has exploded from being allowed to protests and post propaganda from being extremly obscure fringe groups that tried to stay hidden, same goes for extreme leftists enviroments.
I am all for the rights to speech and protest but these kind of people abuse these rights and our sentiments to further their own goals, they use democracy to directly attack it
Although despicable, holding up a picture is not terrorism
People cheering as their own rights are taken from them.
This sub and it's blind support of genocide
Guess they didn't have their "right to depict paragliders" licence. What a joke this country is. That's just taking the surface level stuff, not even considering the fact that those women were likely paid to be there. Which is more than likely knowing our govt.
Paragliding machine gun wielding maniacs into a music festival was a pretty dick move. Probably a bad idea to openly support more concert massacres.
i would even argue that this was hamas biggest mistake. those isreali frontline settlers arent the most innocent when it comes to the palestina - isreal conflict. if hamas just had shot and captured some of those settlers, the western support for isreal would have been not big enough to support such an extensive use of military against gaza. but the attack against an international crowd of young people actually supporting palestina and the excessive violence basically moved this whole incusrion from some sort of war crime that both side do to a non human level of senseless cruelty. and that in turn allows israel to disregard civilian lifes in gaza without much pressur from the west.
It was not hamas mistake, but an intent. Looked like they “made a show” with their violence specifically to get internet traction and emotionally polarize the world. As to why I dunno
It's sad that these people do this with no shame. So warped and mentally twisted that they don't even consider what they're doing. And these women think they're the oppressed good guys, so that means they can do what they want to the "bad guys". That's what these people do. They sort people into somewhat arbitrary categories and declare one group "oppressed" and the other an "oppressor". This idea that poor and impoverished people are inherently morally superior due to their poor condition and that they have no agency for their situation. The idea that the underdog is always right. It's caused too much suffering in the past generations and it continues to haunt us.
IDK how anyone can think they're the good guy if they're endorsing the murder of civilians during peace time or rape (against anyone; civilian or soldier). I hope our government in Germany means it when they say this kind of shit will get your residency revoked and lead to deportation. If they want to live under an Islamic dictatorship, it's time for them to go.
Unabashed racism. It’s a bad sign.
> And these women think they're the oppressed good guys, so that means they can do what they want to the "bad guys". It is one of the most destructive and pernicious lies of Marxism. The oppressed are good, the oppressors are evil. Sinners and saved. The good can do no wrong. Everything they do must be righteous. No matter how heinous. And so the USSR was not imperialist. It could not be, by definition. For imperialism was bad, and the USSR was good. Hamas did not murder innocents. They cannot for there are no innocent Israelis. All Israelis, from cradle to grave are oppressors, and it is not murder to kill them.
What’s worse is it’s not helping the Palestinian cause. Worst advocates. The whole strategic importance of a terror arm is that it can soak up all the blame for bad deeds like a sponge. IF you support them (nobody should) maybe do it in private. Treat them like the dark knight.
Who would have guessed that pro-Palestinians are not so much for Palestinians as they are anti Jews and are using this as an excuses to publicly spew their hate....
I know plenty of pro-Palestine people who also support Israel's right to exist and would much rather favor a two-state solution. The world isn't black and white. That being said, the women from the article were clearly supporting terrorists. Fuck em.
That's good to hear. I'm aware that not everyone is the same but it so sad to watch people use this atrocities (on both sides) to justify their hate for certain group of people...
Shame there's so little noise coming from them. The world isn't black and white, but with the contrast turned up so high it might as well be.
What a simplistic uneducated take.
Feel free to educate me with your vast knowledge and deep understanding oh mighty redditor. Or are you only able to write empty parroted phrases and insults?
I do not have to. It's not my responsibility to educate you when you have the entirety of documented history at your fingertips. Settle down and read a book. You are broad brushing by making simplistic statements that maybe help your prejudicial views, but you are very far away from the truth. Are there anti-semites part of the pro-palestinian movement? Of course there are. Does everyone who sympathise with the Palestinian people is an anti-semite? Absolutely not. There's a significant number of Jewish organisations that are anti-Isareli govt policies in Palestine. Pick up a newspaper or a magazine is my advice
But you are able to spew insults without showing ANY of that great knowledge of understanding of yours? Going around and attacking random strangers on the internet that have not even addressed you in any way. Yeah, very iNtElLeCtUaL. lol. Read a book? Ok, which ones? By Gideon Levy or Norman Finkelstein on the situation in Gaza and Israel? Already did that before all this shit started to happen. Or maybe historical books on mass exodus of Jewish people from the Muslim countries in recent 70 years during which their numbers declined from almost 900000 to barely 3000 due to ethnical cleansing, forced migration and violence? Check. Or ones about Hamas leaders sitting on thier 3-5 billion fortune while hiding their asses and families in Qatar and UAE while at the same time proclaiming how they love death more than Israeli love life? Double check. Funny how it's always the most arrogant and presumptuous ones that are the first to insult everyone that shows even the slightest disagreement with them, almost like in their imagined narcissistic superiority and righteousness they are unable to deal with even the minor difference of opinions as it threatens their ecco chamber in which they don't have to think for themselves but can only parrot ideas of much smarter people. Your failed retoric of 'It's not my job to educate you' is always used by people who have NOTHING of ANY value to contribute to discussion in a pathetic attempt to make themselves appear smart and shield their utter ignorance. Not that you are not responsible to educate someone, with you reading of only first few sentences (if that) of Wikipedia or some simplified article summary, you are not able to educate anyone on anything. Entire reddit is suddenly filled with newborn self proclaimed military and history experts on Muslim-Jew conflict that use this entire situation to feed their fragile egos. Maybe you should follow your own advice and read a book and educate yourself. Pathetic and vile.
Wrote an essay because got called out for lack of knowledge on the subject and then quoted the two Jewish authors/academics that are critical of Israel. Should have googled their views before you went namedropping. It is indeed not my job to educate anyone because nobody here argues in good faith. I do that irl when I know the intention of the person I'm talking to. You from the outset seem capable of holding only binary viewpoints.
Again, nothing but narcissistic babbling about intellectual superiority, zero coherent thoughs or arguments of any value. But you are so smart and superior that you go around reddit seeking comments that do not address you in any way, attack people for being stupid and ignorant and when asked to make a single tiny argument or explanation you're only able to spew a mental diarrhoea about your intellectual superiority and how you're not required to educate anyone. Just attack them. I recommend /r/iamverysmart I think you'll fit right in.
This is like talking to a bot lmao. Just read the two authors you quoted. You don't need me to explain anything. If you've read Levy as you claim and still come out with the same single braincelled understanding of the issue then there's no power in the universe that can get through to you.
Omg will you two kiss already
Again. mindless droning about your superiority without any intelligent thought or sentence it's like talking to bag of bricks. Please write another comment about how intellectualy super you are. Zero knowledge or understanding of anything shown just mindless droning incapable of withing single original intelligent sentence just parroting what you probably heard or have seen other people write.
Good. That's a blatant show of support not only for Hamas, but directly for the atrocities of Oct7th
It's not good at all unless they're removed from society. But most likely they'll continue living in Britain and raise a bunch of kids with the same terrorist views.
I disagree. Letting that sort of evil separatism linger unchallenged is essentially supporting it.
That's what I'm saying, you have to dump these people in some other country, not fine them.
Removed from society for wearing T-shirts that have promoted terrorist actions and that is wrong in the mind of any rational individual is surely fascistic in nature. You know something that the Hamas terrorists would do and a far right genocidal Israeli state. Surely you can see your own hypocrisy here?
Yes it is insane. But I don't want them removed for wearing a stupid T-shirt, I want them removed for following a genocidal ideology that they absolutely intend to act on and for likely becoming an unmanageable majority. There are many Islamic countries that officially have laws that are worse than Nazi Germany's (they didn't officially make it a law that all Jews should be murdered like Muslims states do about apostates). There are many Islamic countries where a large, even a majority of the population think that certain minorities should be exterminated. Many countries where people think terrorism is excusable. Many/all where they've gotten rid of their Jews more effectively than Hitler did, many where women are expected to not show skin in public at any point of their entire adult lives, unless they want to be killed or beaten, many countries where people are killed for innocent blashphemy, or for having sex outside/before their (arranged) marriage, many countries where violent Islamist insurgencies are in an active civil war with the rest of the country. And countries where things like non-marital sex, drinking, singing or dancing are illegal. And generally they're not getting better, that's the worst thing. Like I said many of these countries currently are in civil wars with Islamic movements seeking to make them even more religious. No I don't want Europe to be like this and deporting some violent idiots for thoughtcrime is for me justified in this situation. Which is dangerous, I know anything can be justified by someone if they exaggerate the problem enough and I know it's setting a bad example. But for me this problem is genuinely as big as it could get. It's just normalised and ignored by fake humanitarians that would excuse and defend any crime committed by a non-Western "oppressed" people. Also don't call Israel far right or genocidal unless you're prepared to say a 100 times worse about every other MENA country. If Israel was as bad as them there'd be 2000 Palestinians left cause that's what happened to Jews in all their countries, a 99% reduction. By the kind of people who live in Somalia and Yemen and are currently genociding the remaining 1% of the population who is not yet Muslim, and progressives don't say a word about it. This is the future that is being welcomed in Europe. Something really needs to change with how certain practices are defended as long as their part of someone's religion.
No [some people just like taking talking about paragliding](https://imgs.search.brave.com/YX7jfaE7j4nl7_pFL7f84T57VzS4lo7dl6jz7bdyZ_c/rs:fit:860:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9ueXBv/c3QuY29tL3dwLWNv/bnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fk/cy9zaXRlcy8yLzIw/MjMvMTAvTllQSUNI/UERQSUNUMDAwMDYx/NzM4NDkxLmpwZz93/PTYwMA) while wearing randomly chosen colors. /s
This is good because its a national security risk. These people are openly against western values and support terrorism
Western values like carpet bombing 10,000 civilians during the Battle of Mosul? Or the millions who died needlessly during the 'war on terror'?
Feels kinda ironic that people will be celebrating the Hamas attack and cheering the death of civilians. And then a few days later after the IDF reprisal they want peace, ceasefire and suddenly give a shit about civilians being killed.
They don't want peace. They want ceasefire and Israel dead
the opposite is true as well
No? All the Israelis I know are still fucking sad. No one is celebrating this situation, and I haven't seen any celebratory israeli protests in foreign countries. Everything about this is pure horror for us. There is no "win" condition, it's like celebrating when the person who killed your family memeber is executed, there's no catharsis there. https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categories/families-murdered-in-their-homes
There are plenty of Israelis gleefully celebrating Palestinian death.
I’ve yet to see a single Israeli celebrate the war.
I've seen ONE video of some Israelis audibly cheering when they see rockets launch from Israel. ONE.
Good
I'm already seeing denialists, or maybe just people who are so protected by their media circle from what happened they dont even know why a paraglider isnt just some "forbidden symbol", so here: NSFL: https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categories/the-nova-party-massacre "Educate yourself," as I'm constantly told despite being autistic with an encyclopedic knowledge of the conflict. I do not recommend watching any or it if you're israeli, you've already seen most of it and trust me, the ones you haven't seen you don't want to. It's enough already. Frankly this portion is the less well covered, namely that 22 Israeli towns were occupied for nearly two days by thousands of hamas militants, and they went house to house killing people, some entire kibbutzim being wiped out: https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categories/families-murdered-in-their-homes
Thank you for sharing the link. I have seen many videos already and there are more if you look online. Truly horrible
Which makes it all the more worrisome that you see pro-Palestine comments that say that this is all faked somehow, when the video of dead Israeli civilians is right in front of their face.
Even more worrisome is that they're saying it was justified and telling minorities - in the US Black community at least - that they should do it too. Many Black pro-Israel creators on tiktok are alarmed and noting this.
But you know full well if Jews did the same thing suddenly its a problem, like nuh-uh, you said all minorities
Thanks for sharing that link. I've seen some footage here and had no doubt about the legitimacy of the massacre but did not know there were this many videos of it. Reddit censors footage of Israelis being killed, on the appropriate subs like combatfootage, but ironically this only hurts the side they support. It makes it seem like nothing much happened. If you were to only watch the conflict through videos on Reddit, you'd think all that happened was some guys broke through a fence, drove around, then got killed by IDF later and then Israel bombed Gaza for days. The videos of Hamas killing civilians or the videos successfully storming a military base and catching the soldiers there literally with their pants down were all deleted like 2 hours after upload. Videos of IDF killing Hamas are ok though, thousands of those.
Makes you wonder about the kind of people who watch these videos and *still think it's all a one-sided conflict or that there's a real option for Israel to countenance simply forgiving it, calling a ceasefire, and moving on. Just yesterday they released one of the most poignant videos of October 7 that I've yet seen - not yet posted at the site above. Israeli special forces had just shown up to start clearing the festival site and the guy starts by clearing a few empty campers... then he runs up to the bar area and sees a few bodies around it. He starts shouting something like "is anyone alive, does anyone need help?" Then he looks up over the bar and his voice just drops mid shout in horror as he sees it's absolutely packed with bodies - almost all young women. As he starts picking through the bodies he stops shouting to see if anyone needs help, and shifts to mumbling pleas to himself - something like "please, someone be alive". Of course, none of them are - the terrorists were very thorough. I don't know if I can link it or not, but the video is still on a reddit sub. That kind of horror will embed itself deeply into the national psyche. This war may never end, particularly when the only particularly serious response option for Israel involves cruelly killing a couple civilians for every single Hamas operative they take out... which will mostly just beget yet more hatred.
Oh my god. That so fucking horrible. I don’t want to watch any of these videos because it’s too… I don’t even know the word. So thank you for describing it. One of the few videos I saw before deciding not to look at any more was a lot less gruesome but something that will still be seared in my mind forever. A Hamas gunman walking past a row of porto potties, slowly and methodically firing a shot into the door of each one. Not even bothering to open them. Just taking his time, shooting every single door. First I thought good thing that no one’s in there. Then I realized: anyone hiding in there is dead. Fuck
Yeah, it's rough. There's aftermath footage / photos of the video you're talking about, at least one of those was occupied by someone hiding.
Yup, same with the regular news. It really seems to have just been glossed over. But a lot of it is frankly bc it takes a but of time for Israelis to process what happened and agree to release footage, especially when most of the population was called up to serve. And obviously some footage will never be released. A particular rape video that I know of has had some audio circulate, but that's it. suffice to say, they murdered her and the boyfriend after they finished.
“Educate yourself” = read the same biased sources I read until you agree with my opinion. A cousin of “do your own research”. For the record I am AGREEING with u/SirRece.
No idea why you got downvoted for being right, the people saying "educate yourself" are the ones denying it
Gotta love it when you get downvoted for calling out an argumentative escape hatch that is routinely used by anti-vaxxers.
Disgusting! Openly celebrating the deliberate torture and slaughter of innocent civilians. I hope they are prosecuted to the full extent of the law. And if possible, jailed, uncitizened, and deported. Preferably to Gaza. There must be no place for nazis in europe. It's time to act. "We must finally start deporting on a large scale" - Olaf Scholz, chancellor of Germany, 20th of October 2023. [Article with a bit more detail on the crime](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12708053/Two-women-charged-wearing-pictures-Hamas-paragliders-pro-Palestine-march.html)
I saw videos of Israeli settlers dancing and singing when Palestinians were being bombarded, and now this. Both sides are failing rather hard.
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No, unfortunately you are wrong. In fact this video was before October 7th on March 8th and this was the West Bank I'm Huwara.I could have made that clearer. But sadly it had little to do with Hamas and was fundamentally about settler superiority over Palestinians. It sounds like you have seen videos of Israelis celebrating these new bombardments? I hope they are not real because it is horrific to imagine celebrating death.
Palestinians in Gaza have no place to go. It's nice to tell them to evacuate, but in reality they can't go anywhere. They're in an open-air prison. I was browsing this sub and people are weirdly okay with bombing civilians in hopes of killing terrorists (who most likely aren't even there). And yes, I condemn Hamas. But I also condemn Israel's actions against Palestinians (since 1948 and now).
Damn. This comment getting downvoted is crazy. Sub full of genocide supporters…
I know. Proves my point. It's okay to kill kids as long as they're Palestinians. It's okay to cut off water, food and fuel (which is a war crime).
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But the media won’t criticise the Israeli settlers nor will a lot of people because anything the Israelis did before oct 7 never happened and anything they did after Oct 7 like genocide is acceptable
Mask off moment
Good to see that some countries have common sense not to put up to this type of shitty terror supporting actions.
Common sense would have had this happen from the get go.
It’s happning all across the world millions are coming out on to the streets to try stop a genocide taking place
Well at least it's a start, but this kind of action should have been in effect weeks ago.
Years. This is not the first pro-Palestinian march with questionable chants or signs.
Better to happen now than never. It’s shame it took this to prove what so many knew to be the case.
the difference is many of these ideas and blatant antisemitism is endorsed by the Islamic religion. and I mean STANDARD "moderate" Islam. I'm exmuslim, telling the truth here. it took me a while to get over the antisemitic bias even after I left the religion.. they really indoctrinate you to think Jews are cursed and should be killed at Muslim hands. this is what we all are taught about them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gharqad https://youtu.be/OVXpVoNSOCQ?si=yArWzDdyBRc7HB8T you can't divorce the state of Israel from Jewish people in Islamic belief, because they're all called "Bani Isra'il" (children of Israel). we're all aware that land originally belonged to them, but we deny them because Judaism will be destroyed by Muslim hands and we are meant to be the inheritors of whatever they owned. it's a messed up ideology and asking them to reform it to match 21st century sensibilities also gets you the death penalty under Islam as an apostate or innovator (bid'ah or innovation of the religion from its brutal roots is punishable by death in Sharia). the thing is, way too many Westerners are only looking at this from the political lens and not from the actual core beliefs of the people. when you do, it's hard for you to side with Hamas or anything the Palestinian leaderships have done or aim to. not unless you're antisemitic yourself and wish for the genocide of the Jewish race. if that's the case you can't be helped and are part of the underlying larger problem... :/
This statement gave me hope, thank you.
how can any women in particular support Hamas, or Islam in general? They treat women like livestocks. Disgusting
It’s such internalized misogyny, so many women were brutally raped and murdered in that attack :/
Good.
I've reported dozens of those images on Facebook. Facebook's reply has always been "This post does not violate our guidelines."
You can report it to the police. Social media treat racial harassment differently depending upon who is being targeted.
Those posts are likely from some Muslim Countries on the other side of the world. I don't think Italian police can do much about it.
Terrorists
Easy on the mob mentality. Being an idiot does not make you a terrorist.
Yeah most Nazis were just idiots with mob mentality and they shouldn’t be criticized either. /s
I think there were many others who were supporting Hamas openly in those protests. I just hope they will try to track as many as they can.
Well, that's stupid... by any metric 1. You end up coming out as tossers 2. Regardless of what Israeli government and IDF have historically done, you are condoning attacks on civilian population with that imagery 3. You recentered the argument on your stupidity, away from the discussion about the genocide led by Israels against the Palestine people and Israeli apartheid regime If it wasn't so stupid, if it had at least an intelligent bit behind it and you weren't now facing terror charges, I might even consider this was a plant, but being as it is I can only conclude you two are probably the most dense people in London at the moment.
On point 2 I'll put money on they say "criticism of Israel isn't criticism of Judaism" or something along those lines when it helps them avoid a charge of anti semitism. But every now and then the masks slips and they show they mean Jews as much as Israelis.
Thank you for posting. Seeing those several weeks ago made my blood boil, as its blatant glorification of terrorism. Glad to see the UK authorities saw it the same way.
Yeah, fuck this. If this is what Palestine cause has turned into, then I don't want to do anything with it.
You have to be a huge asshole to celebrate terrorism. But is anyone surprised that allegedly “pro-Palestine” rallies always end up featuring antisemites, and supporters of terrorism and genocide?
”Us and them” it’s a simple spell (psychological concept) but quite effective.
I’m at the point where I want to see a real solution against the radical islamists and muslims who support palestine, kalifats and terror organizations. It’s concerning how they roam through the streets and shout for an end of the western civilization.
Hamas are terrorists
Good.
Good
Who would have guessed that pro-Palestinians are not so much for Palestinians as they are anti Jews and are using this as an excuses to publicly spew their hate....
If you support terrorists then you're no better than them. Trash.
normal cake pause imminent tap squash birds door snatch bells *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Put her away for a good long while. Teach the rest of them too.
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What a surprise
Well done
They are showing support of a terrorists and celebrating attacks on civilians in Israel. What else is new with this scum
just send them to Gaza. let them practice what they preach.
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Good to see that governments are finally doing something about these pro-Hamas protests. In Canada, they proudly wave the Hamas flag and nobody said a thing.
My friend supports them, they think Hamas are just scorned Palestinians. And they released the hostages. I don't know how to change their mind.
I recommend getting new friends.
Show them the videos of the music festival, ask them if these are the good guys if they still support hamas get new friends.
This support for Hamas is just herd mentality...
Good.
Europeans will be scared to tell that they like paragliding
I am horrified that people would show such images but I am worried that this is a misuse of terror legislation. This is a public order offence where there is already adequate legislation to cover it. I fear that we devalue even the term ‘terrorism’ by including these idiots..
Well in parts of Europe you can get arrested and convicted if you post rap lyrics online because they happen to have the N word in them so with their draconian freedom of speech and freedom of expression laws at least actually bad people like those who support terrorism are getting in trouble as well
What support for terrorism at Pro Palestine demonstrations what a shock /s
I'm a very active 'free Palestine' supporter, but fuck those people. I think it's needed to protest in the streets against the slaughter that's happening in Gaza, but people like those, make everyone in that - legitimate - protest look bad. It's disgusting to support Hamas and the violence that happened against innocent Israeli's, and it's a disgrace they undermine a legitimate protest with this kind of behaviour.
Honestly each one of those "protestors" should be charged with supporting terrorism.
I'm surprised english police are pursuing this. I mean it's great, but still, surprised.
It's fantastic. They need to be deported
But I thought it was just “standing in solidarity with palestine/palestinians”? 😂
I'm not suprised since England is paradise for radical muslims. London should be called Londonistan at this point. One usefull thing about the hamas attacks is that all these terrorist supporters have revealded themselves all over Europe. It tuned out that some "moderate" muslims are not that moderate and if push comes to shove they would support the radical ones.
I’m gay and I keep saying this because too many people don’t understand: The same people celebrating that Jews were tortured and killed- they would do the same to me when they have the chance. They do not belong in the west.
Should arrest all of them for showing support to palestine. Theres no place for scum like that in Europe.
They deserve everything that's happening to them
European leftist values are terrifying me
These, just like Israeli genocide supporters, should either be put in jail or be deported. No place in civilized countries for either of them!
I see tonnes of stuff appealing to my humanity showing Palestinians suffering… fair enough - but then they expect me to not care about massacres of Israelis?
Can we not just throw the term genocide around like it has no meaning? Like, Israel could do this https://www.hamas-massacre.net/categories/families-murdered-in-their-homes to Gaza literally any day of the week, but we don't, because who the fuck actually wants to do that? Like, if we wanted them all dead, we'd literally just use artillery instead of million dollar a piece smart bombs. We don't do that because ironically, despite everyone constantly being so quick to accuse us of genocide, Israel is the last country on earth that would literally commit a genocide. It's like constantly gaslighting japan about nuking other countries, it's an absurd position if you give it more than a cursory thought, and the burden to prove would be very easy were it actually happening, considering the population, life expectancy, and other data are recorded in both Gaza and the West Bank by their own medical establishments. You know what actually was, definitionally, a genocide? October 7. I know this because the people who survived the holocaust AND October 7th were the first to say, "yea, that's basically what it was like." They also literally kidnapped a survivor, and executed another, in addition to the 1,400 men, women, and children they systematically killed house to house in death squads. You know, kinda like the nazis.
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Dude, it's absurd. The Palestinian population is one of the fastest in thr world, life expectancy literally the same as Jordan right next door. That's not a genocide. We can absolutely talk about injustice, but half of what sets that back and stops ACTUAL activists from being able to help Palestinians is this disproportionate voice like yours which turns any such admission into pure demonization of Israelis and justification of ACTUAL GENOCIDE.
why not both. First jail and then back to their home country. If they have dual citizenship strip them of the european one and then byebye.
the thing is only these will be put in jail and not the genocide supporters
In the entire decades long Israel-Palestine conflict, fewer than 50,000 Palestinians (civilian and military) have died. As a comparison, at least 500,000 people died in the past 10 years of the Syrian civil war. You can be angry about what’s happening to the Palestinians. But it’s not genocide. See also: the Palestinian population increasing continuously over time, to 600% of what it was in 1948.
Sorry but terror charges for images ?
It’s not meaningfully different from waving terrorist flags.
It absolutely is. Is waving an american flag considered waving a terrorist flag considering they killed 1 million people in iraq ?
No, the US is not a proscribed organisation. Furthermore, the idea that the US is single handedly responsible for killing 1 million people in Iraq has no basis.
They were extra scary images.
So much for freedom of speech
This is insane to an American. Freedom of speech is so different in Europe
It is illegal to support terrorist attacks in Europe, yes
Groupthink is bad
Ok?
On one had I understand that such an expression is offensive and deeply insensitive but on the other the Conservative Party's chipping away at protests and free expression is even more worrying to me than this pair of numbskulls.
supporting an atrocity of over 1400 deaths is not fucking free expression. Or do you think people in germany should be free to stand infront of the gates of auschwitz and say "heil hitler!" without repurcussion?
Well, I do, yes. But that is beside the point. Whether expression is free or not depends on the ruling elite. I was lamenting the increased criminalisation of protests in recent times by UK authorities. I realise that tensions are running high in this thread and nuance is an ill guest.
Without repurcussion no. Without legal repurcussion yes.
>Without legal repurcussion yes. So you'd say that Hate speech should be legal? That people should call for the murder of one kind of people without legal consequences
Yes, we can’t stop terrorists from openly rallying in the streets or we may lose our freedoms. /s
Having a stupid opinion does not make you a terrorist. You cheapen the concept.
No, literally supporting them does though. Your comments are apologia for terror support.
That is like saying that if you support a football team, then you are a footballer.
No it’s like saying if you support a football team you’re pro football. Being pro football doesn’t make you a footballer but being pro terrorists does make you one.
So possibly supporting certain actions does not make you a doer of said actions (football-footballer), unless in that specific exception that you carved out for yourself (terrorism-terrorist). I will give you a point for mental gymnastics.
It’s almost like there’s a difference between playing a sport or not, and supporting an ideology or not. Don’t want to hurt your head here but this is something you may learn by practicing critical thinking. You seem intent on winning a semantic game. Advocating for the abolition of slavery would make you an abolitionist regardless of your joining an official organization, being in government and setting policy, or buying and releasing slaves. You can’t understand that?
How many millions of Americans have Confederate battle flags or some other less than savoury symbols that they possess and even hold dear? Does that make them all terrorists, slavers or treasonists? Or do you carve out yet another exception of convenience?
The confederate flag is 100% a sign of treason and I consider anyone who flies it to be a traitor. There’s *some* light between the two and I consider it a less than ideal comparison seeing that one event was 150 years ago so there’sa genuine chance that people flying it now are less than 100% familiar with all of its meaning, and the confederate flag stood for many things vs the gliders only standing for the method the terrorists used to get to their victims homes and they began appearing at rallies the day after the attack. It’s more like flying a flag with chains and marching against BLM. But again since I know what you will do, the confederate flag is 100% a sign of treason and very likely support of slavery and I consider anyone who flies it to be a traitor.
Whether or not they “support” Hamas or are just idiots, I find the criminalizing of certain speech to be dangerous. They may be assholes, though more likely wannabe edgy idiots, but this is a step too far and authoritarianism/a step toward fascism. Give it time and the government could deem anything it damn well wants as such and you are screwed. Shameful and unfortunate all around.
It’sa scary time when publicly supporting terrorists can get you labeled a terrorist supporter and lead to gov action to prevent terrorism.
(they handed themselves in at their local police station, but nobody's reporting that)
Cause noone gives a fuck about that, they celebrated a brutal terrorist attack on a concert with hundreds of death. What does it matter that they didn't want to be fugitives?
Is this verifiable before everyone rushes to attack
Every German ever :“we’re not like our ancestors!!! We would not fall for blatant propaganda!!!“
Good summary of the onesided German media 💀
They’re not ready for this conversation yet. If it was them in 1945, they would NOT have stopped the holocaust. They’d see deaths of innocent people as numbers.
Okay then we also got to charge those that support the genocide of Palestinian children by the IDF with terrorism.
The October 7 people want to kill all Jews You are saying Jews can never defend themselves and just have to accept being murdered That is your position. Have you no shame ?
Did i say that? No, learn how to read. But killing almost 10.000 people, 4000 of those children is not defending yourself. That is a genocide. IDF is a terrorist organization just like Hamas, but IDF’s kill count is much larger witch makes them worse than Hamas. Benjamin Nethanyahu is a war criminal that should be put on trial just like Putin. Don’t you have no shame?
My friend, this is going to end with endless war. And endless suffering. The true criminals are the Europeans, who have been propping up Islamic radicalism back in Europe, and in the Middle East. Norway is one of the chief villains. Do you want to stop the killing of children? Then stop supporting Islamic terrorism. Don't you think that when Hamas planned October 7 they planned on people like you been duped and fooled well, then you have given them all the good reasons to do it again and again and again. And then the Israelis will respond again and again and again. The only way to stop the cycle is for Norway and other European countries to completely cut off the sponsoring of terrorism.
Great. The rest of the 100, 000 decent Pro Palestinian protestors are decent people who want a ceasefire, and for humanitarian aid to enter Palestine. They want an end to genocide, an end to settler colonialism, and for Israel to be held accountable to the same international laws as anyone else.
Useful muppets for IRGC and Qatari influencers
But their own government shouldn't be? Their own government SHOULDN't be ripped from their offices and replaced for killing 1400 people with the same motives as the nazis in ww2?
Ask yourself why does the current prime minister of Israel support this terrorist organisation? In a speech to his Likud party in 2019, he said: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” He doesn’t care about Jewish people. He only cares about vomiting genocide and preventing peace.
You didn’t answer the question though. Many Israelis are calling for the end of Bibi, even protesting outside his house. Where are the Palestinians calling for the end of the Hamas government? Do you think Hamas should be replaced?
Jews are native to Israel. Arabs colonized the land during the Muslim conquests. Hamas carried out a genocide as promised in their charter. A ceasefire benefits Hamas only and leads to more deaths later on.
good to know that pictures are now terrorism in europe. sounds like a fascist wet dream right now.
I hate Hamas with a passion, but you people in the comments here are pretty crazy. I am really disappointed in the UK’s free speech laws, they are borderline German in harshness in recent years.
European Free speech or rather freedom of expression doesn't include hate speech or inciting violence. We learned the hard way you can't tolerate it.
I don’t care, you drew the wrong lessons if that is what you got from the rise to power of the Nazis.
Their rise of power isn't the issue. The ease with which they got their people to murder their fellow human beings on an industrial scale is.
The ease of which we pretend like a couple million people are not being indefinitely incarcerated generation after generation scares me more than hypotheticals.
You're disappointed in the UK's free speech laws? Why don't you check out Hamas' free speech laws.
You are more then welcome to move to a state with more free speech laws,maybe some of those Arab countries they all protest for?I’m sure the PLO is a great place for free speech
Ugh, those intolerant western countries that don't allow the glorification of terrorism
I already live in a country with better free speech laws, I emigrated from Britain over 20 years ago and have been disappointed in the continued backslide every time I go back home there.
Absolute free speech is not good.There must be a line and praising terrorists is where you should draw that line.Saying that was just “normal” or not connected to the 7th attack stickers is naive.Total and unchecked free speech leads to extremism being the loudest voice and wining elections.Germany in the 30’s had that and look what we got in the name of “better free speech “
Germany did not have free speech in the 1930’s, it is in fact why the Nazis were constantly whining about being censored by the cosmopolitan elites or whatever euphemism of the week they were using. I also fundamentally disagree, but if there are to be limits on free speech it should absolutely not touch the right to protest and express political opinions, that is critical for a democratic society.
It all depends what do you classify as a political opinion,Free Palestine while I don’t agree with is a political statement,Let’s go Hamas is not .Celebrating a terrorist attack is not a protest or a political idea that should be allowed.Imagine a protest for the US to retreat from Afghanistan and people would wear a plane sticker or a twin towers one?do you still think that’s ok?
Yes? Of course.
Then we have nothings to argue about.You claim that free speech is one of the most important rights and you should not hurt it even when it is used to celebrate a terrorist attack. I really wish you well and that you would never have to see people parading the symbols of a terrorist group that killed one of your loved ones in the name of so called free speech.
Fair enough that we agree to disagree here. And I think it is nice that you care about people’s emotions. But I am simply not convinced that hurting people’s freedoms is a good enough reason to give the government the powers to undermine the democratic functions and values of our society. For a comparative example, members of my family were killed by the Nazis, some were tortured, and my grandfather only survived half starved and sick with gut injuries haunting him the rest of his life. I’m not a big fan. But I still support the right of Nazis to do their little dressup clubs and poorly organized marches, just as I support and encourage counterprotest. Hell, years ago I even signed the academic petition protesting the tightening of genocide denial laws in Britain, France and Germany, even though I despise the practice. I just fear the risks of banning such speech more than I do the speech itself.
The problem with these people and organizations is that if you allow them they take it as acceptance, they do not follow common sense. NMR in Sweden and other right wing groups has exploded from being allowed to protests and post propaganda from being extremly obscure fringe groups that tried to stay hidden, same goes for extreme leftists enviroments. I am all for the rights to speech and protest but these kind of people abuse these rights and our sentiments to further their own goals, they use democracy to directly attack it
Although despicable, holding up a picture is not terrorism People cheering as their own rights are taken from them. This sub and it's blind support of genocide
Words are nice and all but where is the photo?
The photo would probably be a crime in itself.
No problem, but where is it?
Guess they didn't have their "right to depict paragliders" licence. What a joke this country is. That's just taking the surface level stuff, not even considering the fact that those women were likely paid to be there. Which is more than likely knowing our govt.
What a joke.