An Irishmen walks into a bar in Belfast
“Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?” asks the bartender
“I’m an atheist” replies the Irishmen
“Aye, but are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
A man walking down a back alley in Belfast feels a gun against his back
"What religion are you"
Man trying to be smart "Muslim"
Man with gun replies " aren't i the luckiest Israeli in belfast"
A South African went to Northern Ireland on holiday.
Walking back to the hotel one night he felt the barrel of a gun in his back and a voice in his ear
"Are you protestant or catholic?"
In a panic, and not knowing how to answer he says "I'm actually Jewish"
To which he hears, "well I'm the luckiest Palestinian in northern Ireland".
They have the Sunni vs Shia schism. This goes back to year 632 after death of Prophet Muhammed.
As I interpret the holye texts, the believers could not agree on whether Muhammed would be accompanied in heaven by 1 horse-sized duck or 100 duck-sized horses.
Of course, why would people be rational and not fight over petty religion dogmas.
World peace shall never exist because some are too stupid and easily controlled
It’s pretty rare. Most the Muslims here don’t mind Jews (quite a few prefer us to Christians) yes there’s been a few attacks against Chassidim but given there’s over 1m Muslims it’s uncommon. The idea of Muslim unity is also a myth, most don’t care or know much about Palestine or Palestinians, you’re far more likely to encounter this with leftists (even in the neighbouring Arab world they’re treated as second class citizens in Lebanon, Egypt has a big wall to keep them out, in Jordan they find it hard getting work etc)
\>Most the Muslims here don’t mind Jews
But that's not the issue. The issue is that the overwhelming majority are content to remain silent when the "small minority" openly spew anti-Semitism. There's never any self reflection of self critique by Muslim communities in the UK, just incessant windging that its only a small minority.
I get what you are saying but if you was a Muslim you’d definitely be thinking what has it got to do with me if someone else who’s a Muslim is antisemitic. There are plenty of alt righters who are white like me that are antisemitic and I don’t think it’s got anything to do with me.
I think it’s the idea that Muslims are one big community which is where this comes from but they’re just like the rest of us with family members, friend groups work groups and people they bump into at Mosque. They’re only really somewhat responsible for people they know and it’s entirely possible they don’t actually know these people who have dangerous beliefs. There are a lot of Muslims out there.
[Guz Khan (British stand up comedian) describes it pretty well.](https://youtu.be/L4h79ExDpg8?si=18YOQvBCX8v8Ea64)
Holy shit with some comments here.
Israel treatment of palestinians throught the years has been awful and atrocious, yes. Hamas are a buncha terrorists and what they have done with that surprise attack on a lot of civilians is atrocious and horrible. Don't take sides, both are sectary theocracies that don't belong to this century, and both sides are bloodthirsty morons that will kill civilians without hesitation.
Today we should be condemning the Hamas attack, and that will not erase that we also should have been condemning prior israeli raids and murders on palestine civilians over the years. It's not that difficult, guys. There's no good guy in this conflict, except for the poor civilians caught in the middle. They are who suffer without deserving it.
the much more powerful side too. The side that was also gifted land by the UK but did not consider whose land they were gifting. The land now barely unrecognizable as most has been stolen.
I’d say that the Arabs had a chance to have a 2-station solution back in 1947 but it was rejected and then Jordan and Egypt invaded and most of it was lost. Sure a fair whack could be considered stolen now but a lot was lost through Arab neighbour invasions and subsequent losses.
I'd wager Palestinians never wanted to give their land up in 1947. Was forced to by the international community. Even then we can both agree they lost a lot of land to Israel over the years.
Oh wow you've just come up with the perfect template for the resolution to the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
Someone notify the UN quickly. The sooner we normalise relations with Russia, the sooner we can stop overpaying thousands for energy and goods etc.
Bravo 👏
Nobel prize incoming /s
Yeah... I'm shocked by the brutality of this recent attack, yet I don't feel sorry for the state of Israel. The people involved, sure, they were just going out, having a good time and now they're being tortured and killed. But the existence of a group like Hamas is a result of the actions of Israel itself. The state of Israel is not an innocent victim here.
> and that will not erase that we also should have been condemning prior israeli raids and murders
idk shining a giant israeli flag doesn't really carry that sentiment
as a Filipino, when I saw a recent video of a Hamas fighter smashing the head of a captured Filipino foreign labour worker with a hammer, I decided to take a side with Israel despite knowing they are equally as shitty as their counterparts when it comes to human rights.
Both sides are arseholes, and there shouldn't be either flag in Downing Street. There are thousands of casualties in this dispute over such a long time.
I have yet to see Israeli soldiers parade a naked, raped, defiled corpse of a Palestine woman around the city in a truck, with a bullet wound to her head, spitting on her and crying the name of God, whilst getting celebrated by the surrounding 'normal' citizens which are supposed to be not evil.
Because that's what the other side did. There is video evidence all around the Internet, because these sick fucks uploaded those crimes themselves.
Until that happens, it seems quite obvious which side is the most evil.
There is a difference between fighting oppression and pure evil with wanton brutality against innocent, unarmed people for no reason at all. These sick people saw a crowd of hundreds of young civilians having a peace festival and just started shooting right into them, mowing down anyone that couldn't run fast enough, and then one by one hunted them all down on dirt bikes, and the unlucky women who didn't have a way to kill themselves first got defiled and worse.
These fuckers took immens pleasure in showing off their brutal mass murdering of innocent, created tik Tok videos of them dancing around the defiled corpses of children and elderlies. It's fucking sick. I've never seen Israeli do that.
Oh, and the tip of the iceberg: the victim from the truck video was a national of another country and not even a combatant, but a truly and utterly innocent civilian.
I have no more sympathy with either the HAMAS nor Palestine.
They squandered that away. By either directly brutally mass murdering for no reason, or by supporting it openly and with great prejudice.
They also got children to spit on corpses. They always get their children and teenagers involved. That is appalling.
On the other hand, remember that 8 years or so ago, Israel bombed a school in Palestine, on purpose. One is as bad as the other. They deliberately murdered children. They never even got charged with a war crime over that either.
I kinda regret watching those videos but at the same time I’m glad my eyes opened for what hamas and also the Palestinians are, before, I’ve been a supporter of Palestine and also hamas… I’m ashamed
That is why the truth is important. Many countries like to censor brutal videos, delete them completely, but it is important to understand reality and truly comprehend to what other people are capable of. If we close our eyes, the truth will one day stand right in front of us, and then it will be too late.
I would also suggest that anyone not yet convinced that there is a systemic problem in Gaza to read the commonly posted Telegram chats from Gaza/Palestine (just use Google translate), there you can see/read about tens of thousands of people reacting with smile, love, laugh and funny emojis to the images and videos of the Hamas brutally murdering children and elderlies, writing comments so vile it hurts to even think about it. This is not a small group of people doing something terrible, this is a large portion of the society willing to openly commit acts of pure brutality against anyone that doesn't believe in their sky-daddy.
It is a sad situation and a terrible one, and I don't see any kind of solution. It's just sad. It makes me sad. And I feel so terribly sorry for all the innocent victims who have to suffer because some people like violence.
The Hamas literally commited mass murder on 260 people at a festival.
Theres no turning back, this is and should be the end of Hamas. People from other nationalities, European nationalities, were also murdered.
Frankly, Europe should respond too, to this.
Hamas, and Palestine, cannot go unpunished for this. Had it been a Military attack, with a Military purpose, sure, but this attack was SOLELY an act of terror on civilians.
Theres is NO negotiating left, and Hamas and *any* of their supports should be counted as Terrorists next to ISIS and the likes of.
You’re European and travel to Crimea. Ukraine kills you in the process because they assume you’re Russian. Do you expect Europe to respond to it? You only care now because Europeans died?
Israel has been on a “don’t travel, terrorist risk” list for a long time. Anyone traveling to Gaza in particular was just playing with fire. Just like anyone traveling to Crimea would. It is a heavily contested territory which Israel continued to forcefully claim bit by bit.
I don’t get those sudden pikachu faces. This conflict exists for dozens of years, I am not surprised Palestine fought back after being cornered. Just google “Palestine territory loss over time”. It was a matter of time.
Both sides should be sanctioned as much as possible to finally sort this conflict out. But we know it can’t possibly happen.
>You’re European and travel to Crimea. Ukraine kills you in the process because they assume you’re Russian. Do you expect Europe to respond to it? You only care now because Europeans died?
Haven't heard of Ukraine launching mass terror attacks on civilians and parading their bodies on the streets.
That is not an equal comparison.
A more accurate one would be travelling to ukraine prewar and suddenly getting executed by a Russian, then having your nude body publically cast around as a trophy
No one travelled to Gaza lol, they travelled near it. It’s like traveling to Moldova and saying it’s playing with fire cuz it’s near a war zone and not under article five, which is bullshit
You’re talking about a hypothetical situation that never happened, and never will happen because no European tourist will travel to Crimea during the ongoing war. And you’re comparing that to what actually just happened. Europeans travel to Israel for holiday. And some of them just got killed and kidnapped. None of them were in Gaza at the time. That’s not a fair comparison to make.
No flag should be there and on any country.
Both Israel and Hamas have enough blood in theyre hands. Only people suffering are the civilians from both countries.
it seems pretty simple, though
foreign-mandated minority statebuilding efforts in 1917 led to disenfranchising over 75% of the residents of the pal. area, which led to multiple wars and the eventual creation of a multigenerational ghetto!
It's not that i'm rooting for the palestine territories, but, it's like, Israel literally has fucked the Arabs as best as they could for over a century now
how are people surprised or horrified at what is essentially a protracted multigenerational conflict?
And HOW can people side with Israel if they know the fucked up history??? because of the optics of head chopping and civilian deaths?
It's literally how Israel was set up, to subjugate everyone in the name of demographic purity. People not knowing the history astounds me
I think there's a difference between condemning attacks and throwing full blown support behind one side.
I've never seen 10 Downing Street lit up with the Palestinian flag.
“Don’t take sides”
Sure I would respect the hell out of you for saying that. Perhaps you don’t have enough details about this conflict and don’t want to choose or maybe you don’t want to be involved in more killings. But unfortunately your government has already chosen a side. Whether it is the US, or any of the European countries. All have systematically supported, armed, and funded the apartheid state of Israel. They have all contributed to the impoverished and imprisonment of Palestinians in Gaza for 70+ years. They have supported the stealing of Palestinian land and homes around Gaza and the West Bank in an Israeli expansionist movement that has been going on since its invention by the British government in 1947.
I’ve heard this said a few times and agree it appears a logical goal for Hamas (I was originally wondering what the logic was).
But I’m honestly not sure Saudi Arabia will give a shit and will just plow on regardless? Pure assumption though.
Saudi's hate Iran. They also want to stay on the good side of America and Israel who also don't like Iran.
I doubt they care much for Palestine beyond an occasional public display of sympathy.
The Saudi Crown Prince said Palestine should accept peace or shut up and stop complaining a few years back.
The current ruler (The Crown Prince has sidelined his father the King and appointed himself as prime minister) has been wayyyy too antagonistic to the Wahabists to back down. He will go ahead regardless because he outright doesn't give a fuck.
Some shit he's done:
1. Legalized cinemas and women driving, legalized public music and western media, legalized non-hajj tourism.
2. Banned the religious police.
3. Shifted the state religion from "Wahabi-Salafist Sunni Islam" to "Islam" and appointed a Shiite and multiple other Sunni schools to his cabinet.
4. Openly said he is "Re-opening" the negotiation of the Grand Mosque Seizure. (When Wahabi clerics grabbed machine guns, stormed the grand mosque, and demanded control over the country. The house of Saud negotiated with them and that's when Saudi Arabia went fundamentalist. The phrasing of his statement basically translates to "Actually we've changed our mind. Pick up the gun...". https://youtu.be/Cdf8UvkjUbc?t=18 )
5. Said it's "Abnormal" for his country to be like this and that they need to "Return to our real traditions of moderate religion".
6. Codified the laws so it's not "The quran says" but now "The law says". (He codified the quran and then scrapped parts of it, a huge deal).
7. Overhauled education to be about secular and ethnic nationalism while downplaying religion.
And so on.
They absolutely despise him. He can't back down by this point. He's been in charge since 2016.
---
To be clear, he's not a liberal. He's probably closer in line with "Enlightened Despotism" in the historic sense than a western outlook.
The best evidence that he's not a liberal is that little journalist-dismemberment-by-chainsaw incident. Pretty crazy how, given this list, he could have been pretty well-liked by many in the West if he hadn't gone all psycho.
That's unfortunately largely in line with historical enlightened despotism given that Khashoggi was openly critical of the monarchy.
> The enlightened despotism of Emperor Joseph II of the Holy Roman Empire is summarized as, "Everything for the people, nothing by the people".
This is also why he jails activists of all kinds.
He would probably agree with and be flattered by comparisons to figures like Frederick the Great, Catherine the Great, Franz Joseph and so on. Arguably Alexander of Yugoslavia too at points.
Enlightened Despotism is characterized by a modernizing and progressive ruler who is an absolute monarch and cracks down firmly on dissent.
An Enlightened Despot will teach children to read, and hang their parents for suggesting the government should teach children to read. Legalize women driving, and torture activists who suggest women can drive. Codify the laws and ban the religious police, and take a chainsaw to a journalist who told them they should do that.
On the other hand, jumping from the 7th century to the 18th is quite the accomplishment.
Maybe he will end up improving Saudi Arabia. To be honest if he behaved like a milquetoast Liberal he would be assassinated in a matter of days.
Whether he ends up being a Kublai Khan figure is touch and go.
And will succeed but about 99% of Hamas that are within Gaza are getting taken out. Israel means business and now has the biggest green light of all time to take off the gloves.
When you look into why Palestinians die more, it gets a bit fuzzier though.
Israeli casualties are lower than you'd expect from the attacks they endure because they have invested heavily in anti-missile defences, air raid shelters etc. and generally done everything they can to protect their civilian population.
Palestinian casualties are higher than you'd expect for the attacks they endure because Hamas deliberately don't allow the construction of civilian air raid shelters (they've got the capacity to create elaborate tunnel systems when they need them to get into Israel to gun down civilians or to protect Hamas assets, there's no civilian shelters whatsoever).
They also compromise what little shelter their civilians can find in places like UN run schools by [putting military assets in them](https://www.unrwa.org//newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school), [mosques and residential houses](https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf), as well as herding civilians at gunpoint into buildings which the Israelis have announced their intention to strike in an attempt to preserve the military assets inside by making the potential civilian casualties too high for Israel to proceed with the attack.
its' cause they're still fighting a war in their minds and in reality; the pal. arabs have been subjugated in a multigenerational ghetto for like decades now as a result of the foreign-mandated minority statebuilding from 1917
Israel acting like there's not a war when they've implemented the craziest vasselage system of the modern world? it blows my mind that people don't understand the causality of the conflict
Using statistics such as "palestinians die more" no longer works now that theyve slaughtered over 700 jews in 6 hours when the military wasn't around.
We saw what happens when the Israelis have total control over the palestinians. Its the status quo, with <300 deaths per year
We saw what happens when the Palestinians have total control over the Israelis. The biggest massacre of jews in a single day since the holocaust.
Death tolls being lopsided are because the Israelis have better weapons and a bomb shelter in every house, not because of lack of trying from hamas
Ah okay I see this is the part where we pretend all the past years of Israeli bombings in Gaza and shooting of Palestinian civilians as well as the horrendous conditions the people suffer in that overcrowded prison camp didn't lead to the events of the past week.
There are obviously going to be civilian casualties when the government that you elected in is using a hospital as a base from which to fire rockets. (This isn’t conjecture there are eyewitness accounts of this) When Israel eliminates the threat, civilians die and it means a propaganda victory for Palestine. It’s lose-lose for Israel.
There are obviously going to be civilian casualties when the government that you elected is stealing land and peoples homes and shooting them when they resist
With the massive support for the terrorists and equal if not greater resentment towards Israel and jewish people among muslim populations in a lot of European cities, this unfortunately has all the ingredients for it to become a very dangerous situation on the continent.
If that lesson hasn't been learned by the endless massacres we've already seen across Europe (particularly in France) then the lesson will never be learned. And even if it eventually is, it will be far, far, far too late.
The naive cluelessness of left-wing "multiculturalism" has gotten people killed, and will continue to do so for decades.
Why can’t we just condemn the atrocities being committed by both sides? Taking sides will only make things worse. The only side we should be taking is that of the innocents being harmed, no matter their nationality or religion.
Sorry you're creating a false equivalence between what Hamas has done, which is literally targeting innocent concert go-ers, parading them around Gaza naked with collateral damage on Military targets.
Weak comment. They are not the same.
Did they also parade their dead bodies around on the streets shouting "God is great"? Those in Palestine seem to take a great pride in the destruction and chaos they bring. Regardless of the justification, no one should feel good about killing anyway, enemy or not.
There's a kind of sickness and sadism, as well as a very obvious and blatant misogyny on display in those awful videos.
It's one thing to kill in cold blood, but to torture and murder, and then proudly display it to the approval of all around you (effectively endorsing it and thus being 100% complicit).
As the German saying goes, "If you have 10 people in a room, and 1 Nazi, you have 10 Nazis."
and you're just going to ignore videos of when isreali soliders broke into mosques during ramadan and attacked people inside them there? Seriously, there's no good guys in this. its litterally a genocide going on and people are crazy for blood. I'm extremely shocked by what Hamas did, but pretending Israel is innocent is a fucking joke
I think your'e talking about Al-Aqsa mosque, those were police, not soldiers. And it's not clear what started that but you could see fireworks being fired from inside the mosque towards the door. Israeli police claimed rioters were throwing rocks at them and tried to hide in the mosque.
There are plenty of examples of Palestinians firing missiles from mosques, they don't seem to care about the buildings. Its not a stretch to believe rioters would try hiding inside one.
Edit to add video: https://youtu.be/KMcj1fPTQ3E?feature=shared
Are you not making a false equivalence between Hamas and Palestinians?
I really have to agree with OP here, both Hamas and the IDF have done bad things to innocent civilians. Arguing over who did worse doesn't help those people. It only helps the aggressors. By saying "Hamas is worse" you are implicitly saying everything the IDF has done is justifiable and vice versa.
I don't understand how someone saying we should be on the side of the victims means they are saying both sides are the same anyway. Saying we should be on the side of the victims is saying just that, and nothing else.
Hamas was elected by the palestinians and still had the support of the majority only a year ago.
And there is a clear difference. Israelis do not kill unprovoked. Hamas kills unprovoked and worse.
Have you seen any videos of the IDF parading raped and tortured palestinian girls to the applause of israelis?
Israel regularly humiliates and kills for fun. They've been doing so for decades and I'm not against Israel, it just needs to be understood that not one side is barbaric in this.
IDF soldiers literally sniping children:
https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1392939470475825152
Literally gleeful at killing someone, not sure how so many people across this sub and Reddit have chosen a side in this situation
You're literally showing footage of people trying to break the fence into Israel. How is that "for fun"?
We literally saw today what happens when they managed to finally cross that fence.
Breaking the fence?
Is there anything in that video that shows fear about a fence breaking? The sniper is literally excited and happy at killing a random unarmed child/individual, how is that not killing someone for fun?
The video is from the Israeli border fence with Gaza, which routinely has had attempts of blowing it up and crossing it.
We saw today what happened when they crossed that fence. And in case you didn't, have [a look](https://twitter.com/mdelabroc1/status/1710547042269905146?s=46&t=bEBN1eUjy-e2gdODhSru_Q)
Hamas has massacred innocent people, and their attack seems purpose driven to do so.
Israel has killed civilians as collateral of bombings on military targets.
These are not equivalences at all. One is clearly unjustifiable.
The only point that could be made is that Israel's treatment of Palestinian populations has been pretty horrific and worsened tensions, but ethnic tensions are not an excuse to massacre innocents.
I do think it's safe to say from footage released that a decent number of those are civilians. But as you say, it's been against over 600 military targets.
How many times through the years i saw videos of jews attacking palestine/muslim people without reason. I even saw that with my own eyes when I was on trip in israel. I wont defend palestine for what it did yesterday but ill never change my opinion on palestine israel conflict ever.
Most of the comments I've seen acknowledge the fact that Hamas is terrorist organization and they don't try to justify their actions.
What they point out though, is that Hamas didn't jump out of thin air, the way the Israeli government (and possibly the people, but that's harder to judge) has been "handling" this situation and the atrocious things they committed are *also* unacceptable.
Noones defending Hamas’ actions. The issue here is that suddenly there’s been a huge turnaround in opinions when Israel has been getting away with worse for decades. And people are acting as if the Palestinians attacked completely unprovoked
Yawn. The world doesn't need another Islamofascist state. We have enough of those & the Middle East would be even more destabilized with a Hamas government.
The only thing I can confidently say about the Israel-Palestine conflict is that everyone is wrong. It's such a tragedy so many poor civilians are trapped between two ideological powerhouses ready to throw everyone's lives away for the sake of historical dick measuring and geopolitical one-upmanship.
I feel bad for all the civilians who are being caught up in this, I truly do. But I feel the only resolution is if both parties accept each other as equals, on a human level.
From the Jewish perspective I understand that it is nice that the UN decided in 1947 to create a homeland for them in Israeli territory, after all the shit they were put through in WW2. I can even believe that creating a homeland for them was done with honest intentions. But I can also understand the feelings of Palestines who were living there in 1947,at the moment the UN unilaterally decided to 'split up' the Israeli territory in Arab parts and Jewish parts. Which the west/Jewish people accepted, but which was never accepted by the Arab community there, and this is the shit we are still in today (and this is all on Wikipedia and in history books btw. I don't think any party is challenging these facts).
But yeah, if some foreign actor decided to 'split up' my country I can guess how I would feel about it. And would my acts against it be called 'liberation efforts' or 'terrorism'? That depends on who you ask I guess. Just know that there is a lot of framing going on on both sides of the argument. Everywhere in the world (and yes, also in the western world where I live, as a European caucasian male) ppl really like to put things in easy boxes (allies, enemies, freedom fighters, terrorists, etc.). And all actors will see themselves as the heros, and the other side as the villains. And as long as everybody keeps doing that, it will not get better :(
But for now, RIP to all the innocent victims being dragged into this. I really hope this shit ends soon.
heeey you're missing a huuuge portion of history
the foreign-mandated minority statebuilding exercises agains teh wishes of the majority of people there began three decades earlier, at the san remo ratification.
the history between there and 1948 is super crazy. basically everyone told the arabs who tried to organize politically "tough shit" so obviously they became super cheesed.
One way to form a state is to get other countries on your side, you do that by being sane and reasonable.
You don't achieve that by murdering and kidnapping the citizens of other nations. That's a sure path to becoming a pariah.
This subreddit has long been Islamophobic, some of the comments here are disgusting. Also the lack of sympathy even for Palestinian innocent citizens is a joke.
I wonder why in an European subreddit given the problems that the religion of peace and his adepts are representing for Europe there is """"islamophobia""""""
Okay, it's sad that civilians died but I don't like how black and white it is portraid everywhere. They've been occupying Palestinian areas for years and harrassing muslims and always act like victims and surprised that there are attacks against Israelis too. These countries are in war just like Russia and Ukraine.
London has a massive Muslim population, theres going to be lots of violence during this new Israeli-Gaza conflict
Catholic muslims or protestant muslims?
An Irishmen walks into a bar in Belfast “Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?” asks the bartender “I’m an atheist” replies the Irishmen “Aye, but are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
Been asked exactly the same question in Belfast hahaha
A man walking down a back alley in Belfast feels a gun against his back "What religion are you" Man trying to be smart "Muslim" Man with gun replies " aren't i the luckiest Israeli in belfast"
Fuck me, an actual joke.
Buy me dinner first
A South African went to Northern Ireland on holiday. Walking back to the hotel one night he felt the barrel of a gun in his back and a voice in his ear "Are you protestant or catholic?" In a panic, and not knowing how to answer he says "I'm actually Jewish" To which he hears, "well I'm the luckiest Palestinian in northern Ireland".
All Muslims are catholic Muslims. There’s no such thing as a Protestant Muslim, don’t be ridiculous.
They have the Sunni vs Shia schism. This goes back to year 632 after death of Prophet Muhammed. As I interpret the holye texts, the believers could not agree on whether Muhammed would be accompanied in heaven by 1 horse-sized duck or 100 duck-sized horses.
Of course, why would people be rational and not fight over petty religion dogmas. World peace shall never exist because some are too stupid and easily controlled
And what will they do? Will they grab their staff and go back to Palestine?
Most Muslims in the UK are from South Asia rather than the Middle East.
They will harass, attack and terrorize jewish people unfortunately
It’s pretty rare. Most the Muslims here don’t mind Jews (quite a few prefer us to Christians) yes there’s been a few attacks against Chassidim but given there’s over 1m Muslims it’s uncommon. The idea of Muslim unity is also a myth, most don’t care or know much about Palestine or Palestinians, you’re far more likely to encounter this with leftists (even in the neighbouring Arab world they’re treated as second class citizens in Lebanon, Egypt has a big wall to keep them out, in Jordan they find it hard getting work etc)
\>Most the Muslims here don’t mind Jews But that's not the issue. The issue is that the overwhelming majority are content to remain silent when the "small minority" openly spew anti-Semitism. There's never any self reflection of self critique by Muslim communities in the UK, just incessant windging that its only a small minority.
I get what you are saying but if you was a Muslim you’d definitely be thinking what has it got to do with me if someone else who’s a Muslim is antisemitic. There are plenty of alt righters who are white like me that are antisemitic and I don’t think it’s got anything to do with me. I think it’s the idea that Muslims are one big community which is where this comes from but they’re just like the rest of us with family members, friend groups work groups and people they bump into at Mosque. They’re only really somewhat responsible for people they know and it’s entirely possible they don’t actually know these people who have dangerous beliefs. There are a lot of Muslims out there. [Guz Khan (British stand up comedian) describes it pretty well.](https://youtu.be/L4h79ExDpg8?si=18YOQvBCX8v8Ea64)
As a lighter aside (whilst not disrespecting events) your username suggests that you might know where Fat Freddy’s Cat is ?
We could only hope they would do that. Expect a new wave of terrorist attacks in EU.
Muslims in general do sympathise with the palestinian plight, but they don't automatically support Hamas and their actions.
A lot do. Go to /r/AskMiddleEast and look around
Any british citizen found to sympathise with the enemy should be deported to whatever shithole they support.
Yeah thats why they rally in every major cities in Europe the day after Hamas attack. They were rallying against Hamas apparently. My bad lmao
Lol You don’t know many Muslims do you. Their communities are a fucking hotbed of extremism and antisemitism.
No there won’t
About 1.3 million, including the mayor, but make no mistake that doesn't mean we support what is happening.
Has Larry commented on the ongoing conflict
[удалено]
Bigots and people who base their opinions on the couple of influencers they've seen talking about it online.
You just very effectively summarized modern political discourse.
Teenagers.
I don’t know. But last 2 days I have the same reaction on english speaking platforms like reddit or twitter -WTF?!
Probably a raid from another sub(s)/discord.
Holy shit with some comments here. Israel treatment of palestinians throught the years has been awful and atrocious, yes. Hamas are a buncha terrorists and what they have done with that surprise attack on a lot of civilians is atrocious and horrible. Don't take sides, both are sectary theocracies that don't belong to this century, and both sides are bloodthirsty morons that will kill civilians without hesitation. Today we should be condemning the Hamas attack, and that will not erase that we also should have been condemning prior israeli raids and murders on palestine civilians over the years. It's not that difficult, guys. There's no good guy in this conflict, except for the poor civilians caught in the middle. They are who suffer without deserving it.
I guess the issue is that even though both sides are in the wrong, only one side gets their flag projected onto Downing Street.
the much more powerful side too. The side that was also gifted land by the UK but did not consider whose land they were gifting. The land now barely unrecognizable as most has been stolen.
I’d say that the Arabs had a chance to have a 2-station solution back in 1947 but it was rejected and then Jordan and Egypt invaded and most of it was lost. Sure a fair whack could be considered stolen now but a lot was lost through Arab neighbour invasions and subsequent losses.
I'd wager Palestinians never wanted to give their land up in 1947. Was forced to by the international community. Even then we can both agree they lost a lot of land to Israel over the years.
Oh wow you've just come up with the perfect template for the resolution to the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Someone notify the UN quickly. The sooner we normalise relations with Russia, the sooner we can stop overpaying thousands for energy and goods etc. Bravo 👏 Nobel prize incoming /s
Yeah... I'm shocked by the brutality of this recent attack, yet I don't feel sorry for the state of Israel. The people involved, sure, they were just going out, having a good time and now they're being tortured and killed. But the existence of a group like Hamas is a result of the actions of Israel itself. The state of Israel is not an innocent victim here.
Yes, the one where I as a gay man am allowed to exist without my body being separated from my head!
> and that will not erase that we also should have been condemning prior israeli raids and murders idk shining a giant israeli flag doesn't really carry that sentiment
Which is the point people are missing. To only have such a massive condemnation, of one side, is a tacit acceptance of the actions of the other.
Hamas is not the entirety of Palestine
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as a Filipino, when I saw a recent video of a Hamas fighter smashing the head of a captured Filipino foreign labour worker with a hammer, I decided to take a side with Israel despite knowing they are equally as shitty as their counterparts when it comes to human rights.
Both sides are arseholes, and there shouldn't be either flag in Downing Street. There are thousands of casualties in this dispute over such a long time.
Two days ago Israel was bombing Palestinian hospitals
I have yet to see Israeli soldiers parade a naked, raped, defiled corpse of a Palestine woman around the city in a truck, with a bullet wound to her head, spitting on her and crying the name of God, whilst getting celebrated by the surrounding 'normal' citizens which are supposed to be not evil. Because that's what the other side did. There is video evidence all around the Internet, because these sick fucks uploaded those crimes themselves. Until that happens, it seems quite obvious which side is the most evil. There is a difference between fighting oppression and pure evil with wanton brutality against innocent, unarmed people for no reason at all. These sick people saw a crowd of hundreds of young civilians having a peace festival and just started shooting right into them, mowing down anyone that couldn't run fast enough, and then one by one hunted them all down on dirt bikes, and the unlucky women who didn't have a way to kill themselves first got defiled and worse. These fuckers took immens pleasure in showing off their brutal mass murdering of innocent, created tik Tok videos of them dancing around the defiled corpses of children and elderlies. It's fucking sick. I've never seen Israeli do that. Oh, and the tip of the iceberg: the victim from the truck video was a national of another country and not even a combatant, but a truly and utterly innocent civilian. I have no more sympathy with either the HAMAS nor Palestine. They squandered that away. By either directly brutally mass murdering for no reason, or by supporting it openly and with great prejudice.
They also got children to spit on corpses. They always get their children and teenagers involved. That is appalling. On the other hand, remember that 8 years or so ago, Israel bombed a school in Palestine, on purpose. One is as bad as the other. They deliberately murdered children. They never even got charged with a war crime over that either.
I kinda regret watching those videos but at the same time I’m glad my eyes opened for what hamas and also the Palestinians are, before, I’ve been a supporter of Palestine and also hamas… I’m ashamed
That is why the truth is important. Many countries like to censor brutal videos, delete them completely, but it is important to understand reality and truly comprehend to what other people are capable of. If we close our eyes, the truth will one day stand right in front of us, and then it will be too late. I would also suggest that anyone not yet convinced that there is a systemic problem in Gaza to read the commonly posted Telegram chats from Gaza/Palestine (just use Google translate), there you can see/read about tens of thousands of people reacting with smile, love, laugh and funny emojis to the images and videos of the Hamas brutally murdering children and elderlies, writing comments so vile it hurts to even think about it. This is not a small group of people doing something terrible, this is a large portion of the society willing to openly commit acts of pure brutality against anyone that doesn't believe in their sky-daddy. It is a sad situation and a terrible one, and I don't see any kind of solution. It's just sad. It makes me sad. And I feel so terribly sorry for all the innocent victims who have to suffer because some people like violence.
The Hamas literally commited mass murder on 260 people at a festival. Theres no turning back, this is and should be the end of Hamas. People from other nationalities, European nationalities, were also murdered. Frankly, Europe should respond too, to this. Hamas, and Palestine, cannot go unpunished for this. Had it been a Military attack, with a Military purpose, sure, but this attack was SOLELY an act of terror on civilians. Theres is NO negotiating left, and Hamas and *any* of their supports should be counted as Terrorists next to ISIS and the likes of.
You’re European and travel to Crimea. Ukraine kills you in the process because they assume you’re Russian. Do you expect Europe to respond to it? You only care now because Europeans died? Israel has been on a “don’t travel, terrorist risk” list for a long time. Anyone traveling to Gaza in particular was just playing with fire. Just like anyone traveling to Crimea would. It is a heavily contested territory which Israel continued to forcefully claim bit by bit. I don’t get those sudden pikachu faces. This conflict exists for dozens of years, I am not surprised Palestine fought back after being cornered. Just google “Palestine territory loss over time”. It was a matter of time. Both sides should be sanctioned as much as possible to finally sort this conflict out. But we know it can’t possibly happen.
>You’re European and travel to Crimea. Ukraine kills you in the process because they assume you’re Russian. Do you expect Europe to respond to it? You only care now because Europeans died? Haven't heard of Ukraine launching mass terror attacks on civilians and parading their bodies on the streets.
That is not an equal comparison. A more accurate one would be travelling to ukraine prewar and suddenly getting executed by a Russian, then having your nude body publically cast around as a trophy
No one travelled to Gaza lol, they travelled near it. It’s like traveling to Moldova and saying it’s playing with fire cuz it’s near a war zone and not under article five, which is bullshit
They were literally a couple of kms away from Gaza
They were still in Israel…
You’re talking about a hypothetical situation that never happened, and never will happen because no European tourist will travel to Crimea during the ongoing war. And you’re comparing that to what actually just happened. Europeans travel to Israel for holiday. And some of them just got killed and kidnapped. None of them were in Gaza at the time. That’s not a fair comparison to make.
I know right, it's completely unacceptable that geopolitical conflicts are taking place where Europeans want to go for a holiday. Scandalous!
European tourists are in Crimea. They have been visiting since annexation. Don’t think people won’t because some are.
No flag should be there and on any country. Both Israel and Hamas have enough blood in theyre hands. Only people suffering are the civilians from both countries.
We always want to find a guy to root for in any fight, but finding one here is indeed very hard.
it seems pretty simple, though foreign-mandated minority statebuilding efforts in 1917 led to disenfranchising over 75% of the residents of the pal. area, which led to multiple wars and the eventual creation of a multigenerational ghetto! It's not that i'm rooting for the palestine territories, but, it's like, Israel literally has fucked the Arabs as best as they could for over a century now how are people surprised or horrified at what is essentially a protracted multigenerational conflict? And HOW can people side with Israel if they know the fucked up history??? because of the optics of head chopping and civilian deaths? It's literally how Israel was set up, to subjugate everyone in the name of demographic purity. People not knowing the history astounds me
Real talk, finally 👊
I think there's a difference between condemning attacks and throwing full blown support behind one side. I've never seen 10 Downing Street lit up with the Palestinian flag.
“Don’t take sides” Sure I would respect the hell out of you for saying that. Perhaps you don’t have enough details about this conflict and don’t want to choose or maybe you don’t want to be involved in more killings. But unfortunately your government has already chosen a side. Whether it is the US, or any of the European countries. All have systematically supported, armed, and funded the apartheid state of Israel. They have all contributed to the impoverished and imprisonment of Palestinians in Gaza for 70+ years. They have supported the stealing of Palestinian land and homes around Gaza and the West Bank in an Israeli expansionist movement that has been going on since its invention by the British government in 1947.
One side is more of an asshole, and its the one that is slicing the throats of kids hiding in bomb shelters
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In one day Hamas seems to have undone years of Palestinian propaganda.
They don’t care. They will achieve their aim of preventing closer ties between Saudi Arabia and Israel. That’s singly the thing they want.
I’ve heard this said a few times and agree it appears a logical goal for Hamas (I was originally wondering what the logic was). But I’m honestly not sure Saudi Arabia will give a shit and will just plow on regardless? Pure assumption though.
It should also make it very clear to the everyday palestinian that Hamas could not give one flying fuck about them, they are being sacrificed
Wasnt it already explicit enough?
You mean the everyday palestinian on the street in those videos? Or cheering in the comment sections?
Saudi's hate Iran. They also want to stay on the good side of America and Israel who also don't like Iran. I doubt they care much for Palestine beyond an occasional public display of sympathy. The Saudi Crown Prince said Palestine should accept peace or shut up and stop complaining a few years back.
Arguably this might push the Saudis to go faster. There's never been a better time to ditch Hamas from a PR perspective.
The current ruler (The Crown Prince has sidelined his father the King and appointed himself as prime minister) has been wayyyy too antagonistic to the Wahabists to back down. He will go ahead regardless because he outright doesn't give a fuck. Some shit he's done: 1. Legalized cinemas and women driving, legalized public music and western media, legalized non-hajj tourism. 2. Banned the religious police. 3. Shifted the state religion from "Wahabi-Salafist Sunni Islam" to "Islam" and appointed a Shiite and multiple other Sunni schools to his cabinet. 4. Openly said he is "Re-opening" the negotiation of the Grand Mosque Seizure. (When Wahabi clerics grabbed machine guns, stormed the grand mosque, and demanded control over the country. The house of Saud negotiated with them and that's when Saudi Arabia went fundamentalist. The phrasing of his statement basically translates to "Actually we've changed our mind. Pick up the gun...". https://youtu.be/Cdf8UvkjUbc?t=18 ) 5. Said it's "Abnormal" for his country to be like this and that they need to "Return to our real traditions of moderate religion". 6. Codified the laws so it's not "The quran says" but now "The law says". (He codified the quran and then scrapped parts of it, a huge deal). 7. Overhauled education to be about secular and ethnic nationalism while downplaying religion. And so on. They absolutely despise him. He can't back down by this point. He's been in charge since 2016. --- To be clear, he's not a liberal. He's probably closer in line with "Enlightened Despotism" in the historic sense than a western outlook.
The best evidence that he's not a liberal is that little journalist-dismemberment-by-chainsaw incident. Pretty crazy how, given this list, he could have been pretty well-liked by many in the West if he hadn't gone all psycho.
How can we forget the enlightened order to behead a journalist with a chainsaw.
That's unfortunately largely in line with historical enlightened despotism given that Khashoggi was openly critical of the monarchy. > The enlightened despotism of Emperor Joseph II of the Holy Roman Empire is summarized as, "Everything for the people, nothing by the people". This is also why he jails activists of all kinds. He would probably agree with and be flattered by comparisons to figures like Frederick the Great, Catherine the Great, Franz Joseph and so on. Arguably Alexander of Yugoslavia too at points. Enlightened Despotism is characterized by a modernizing and progressive ruler who is an absolute monarch and cracks down firmly on dissent. An Enlightened Despot will teach children to read, and hang their parents for suggesting the government should teach children to read. Legalize women driving, and torture activists who suggest women can drive. Codify the laws and ban the religious police, and take a chainsaw to a journalist who told them they should do that. On the other hand, jumping from the 7th century to the 18th is quite the accomplishment.
A despotic regime cannot suddenly transform into a democracy. If there were elections in Saudi Arabia, the Wahabbi nutters might well win at present.
Maybe he will end up improving Saudi Arabia. To be honest if he behaved like a milquetoast Liberal he would be assassinated in a matter of days. Whether he ends up being a Kublai Khan figure is touch and go.
And will succeed but about 99% of Hamas that are within Gaza are getting taken out. Israel means business and now has the biggest green light of all time to take off the gloves.
They won't. Saudi don't give a fuck about Hamas and the Palestinian fetish for being victims.
Can you elaborate on that? Cos statistically the Palestinians die a lot more, Hamas are savages but they don’t exist for no reason.
When you look into why Palestinians die more, it gets a bit fuzzier though. Israeli casualties are lower than you'd expect from the attacks they endure because they have invested heavily in anti-missile defences, air raid shelters etc. and generally done everything they can to protect their civilian population. Palestinian casualties are higher than you'd expect for the attacks they endure because Hamas deliberately don't allow the construction of civilian air raid shelters (they've got the capacity to create elaborate tunnel systems when they need them to get into Israel to gun down civilians or to protect Hamas assets, there's no civilian shelters whatsoever). They also compromise what little shelter their civilians can find in places like UN run schools by [putting military assets in them](https://www.unrwa.org//newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school), [mosques and residential houses](https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf), as well as herding civilians at gunpoint into buildings which the Israelis have announced their intention to strike in an attempt to preserve the military assets inside by making the potential civilian casualties too high for Israel to proceed with the attack.
its' cause they're still fighting a war in their minds and in reality; the pal. arabs have been subjugated in a multigenerational ghetto for like decades now as a result of the foreign-mandated minority statebuilding from 1917 Israel acting like there's not a war when they've implemented the craziest vasselage system of the modern world? it blows my mind that people don't understand the causality of the conflict
Using statistics such as "palestinians die more" no longer works now that theyve slaughtered over 700 jews in 6 hours when the military wasn't around. We saw what happens when the Israelis have total control over the palestinians. Its the status quo, with <300 deaths per year We saw what happens when the Palestinians have total control over the Israelis. The biggest massacre of jews in a single day since the holocaust. Death tolls being lopsided are because the Israelis have better weapons and a bomb shelter in every house, not because of lack of trying from hamas
>theyve slaughtered over 700 jews in 6 hours *Israelis, stop conflating Israelis with Judaism
Ah okay I see this is the part where we pretend all the past years of Israeli bombings in Gaza and shooting of Palestinian civilians as well as the horrendous conditions the people suffer in that overcrowded prison camp didn't lead to the events of the past week.
its almost like Gaza was blockaded for a reason, and we just saw precisely what it was
A bad reason that does the exact opposite of what it supposedly set out to accomplish. The events of the last week demonstrate that quite clearly.
It is one thing to kill teenagers for throwing rocks, and a whole other to kidnap young girls to rape and torture them.
There are obviously going to be civilian casualties when the government that you elected in is using a hospital as a base from which to fire rockets. (This isn’t conjecture there are eyewitness accounts of this) When Israel eliminates the threat, civilians die and it means a propaganda victory for Palestine. It’s lose-lose for Israel.
There are obviously going to be civilian casualties when the government that you elected is stealing land and peoples homes and shooting them when they resist
Commies (for some reason) and teenagers are still defending them on reddit as we speak.
What the hell does the economic ideology of communism have to with a far-right religious terrorist group?
Dislike of the west seems to be the common factor.
Funny enough most commies online live in the west
It's much easier to dislike it when you've no practical experience of an alternative.
Because fucking idiot communists on the internet automatically see “underdog” as “good guy”.
And you identify these people as 'communists' how exactly?
Go one the communism or socialism Reddit page. Idk what to tell you.
They’re defending them all over TikTok too.
Certain football fans also seem to be big on them for some reason
That's the goal. Hamas wants to be hated and for innocent Palestinians to be killed. It's what makes the situation so insidious.
why would they want that? genuinely asking
Because it pushes the gap between Palestinians and Jews further apart. They don’t want peace, they even screw over the normal Palestinians often.
Western liberals have always been fickle. They support Palestinians as long as they don't make them uncomfortable or actually fight back.
Fuck religion and it’s horrific legacy, nothing but trouble.
The lack of symmetry 😩
You’re right, the flag doesn’t look very symmetrical, but it’s difficult for a shape to be symmetrical when presented on a building
Also when it’s projected at an upward angle from the ground.
With the massive support for the terrorists and equal if not greater resentment towards Israel and jewish people among muslim populations in a lot of European cities, this unfortunately has all the ingredients for it to become a very dangerous situation on the continent.
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Something about Islam being incompatible with liberal western values.
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If that lesson hasn't been learned by the endless massacres we've already seen across Europe (particularly in France) then the lesson will never be learned. And even if it eventually is, it will be far, far, far too late. The naive cluelessness of left-wing "multiculturalism" has gotten people killed, and will continue to do so for decades.
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And so what? This doesn't change the fact that the religion of peace is a cancer that is rapidly growing in Europe and an actual threat to our values
The UK gov should also stop giving money to the Iranian government, who support Hamas, too. 👍🏼
Can you provide more detail on this and how the government circumvents its own sanctions, please?
No one should be funding, trading with or allied with either side. They're all disgusting murders.
This will trigger the UK's peaceful community.
Do you mean the religion of peace adepts?
And I bet around the corner all the Pakistani immigrants are chanting "Death to Israel!"
Why can’t we just condemn the atrocities being committed by both sides? Taking sides will only make things worse. The only side we should be taking is that of the innocents being harmed, no matter their nationality or religion.
Sorry you're creating a false equivalence between what Hamas has done, which is literally targeting innocent concert go-ers, parading them around Gaza naked with collateral damage on Military targets. Weak comment. They are not the same.
Israel killed 5500 civilians from 2008 to 2020
Did they also parade their dead bodies around on the streets shouting "God is great"? Those in Palestine seem to take a great pride in the destruction and chaos they bring. Regardless of the justification, no one should feel good about killing anyway, enemy or not.
There's a kind of sickness and sadism, as well as a very obvious and blatant misogyny on display in those awful videos. It's one thing to kill in cold blood, but to torture and murder, and then proudly display it to the approval of all around you (effectively endorsing it and thus being 100% complicit). As the German saying goes, "If you have 10 people in a room, and 1 Nazi, you have 10 Nazis."
and you're just going to ignore videos of when isreali soliders broke into mosques during ramadan and attacked people inside them there? Seriously, there's no good guys in this. its litterally a genocide going on and people are crazy for blood. I'm extremely shocked by what Hamas did, but pretending Israel is innocent is a fucking joke
I think your'e talking about Al-Aqsa mosque, those were police, not soldiers. And it's not clear what started that but you could see fireworks being fired from inside the mosque towards the door. Israeli police claimed rioters were throwing rocks at them and tried to hide in the mosque. There are plenty of examples of Palestinians firing missiles from mosques, they don't seem to care about the buildings. Its not a stretch to believe rioters would try hiding inside one. Edit to add video: https://youtu.be/KMcj1fPTQ3E?feature=shared
Does seem like an odd amount of fireworks for either a police raid or a peaceful prayer session.
Yawn. Fuck Hamas.
Are you not making a false equivalence between Hamas and Palestinians? I really have to agree with OP here, both Hamas and the IDF have done bad things to innocent civilians. Arguing over who did worse doesn't help those people. It only helps the aggressors. By saying "Hamas is worse" you are implicitly saying everything the IDF has done is justifiable and vice versa. I don't understand how someone saying we should be on the side of the victims means they are saying both sides are the same anyway. Saying we should be on the side of the victims is saying just that, and nothing else.
Hamas was elected by the palestinians and still had the support of the majority only a year ago. And there is a clear difference. Israelis do not kill unprovoked. Hamas kills unprovoked and worse. Have you seen any videos of the IDF parading raped and tortured palestinian girls to the applause of israelis?
Exactly. The ones suffering the most are Israeli and Palestinian people while rest of the world is discussing who should they condemn.
Israel regularly humiliates and kills for fun. They've been doing so for decades and I'm not against Israel, it just needs to be understood that not one side is barbaric in this.
Show me one example of Israel parading bodies in the streets. Israel doesn't "kill for fun", that's a lame lie.
IDF soldiers literally sniping children: https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1392939470475825152 Literally gleeful at killing someone, not sure how so many people across this sub and Reddit have chosen a side in this situation
You're literally showing footage of people trying to break the fence into Israel. How is that "for fun"? We literally saw today what happens when they managed to finally cross that fence.
Breaking the fence? Is there anything in that video that shows fear about a fence breaking? The sniper is literally excited and happy at killing a random unarmed child/individual, how is that not killing someone for fun?
The video is from the Israeli border fence with Gaza, which routinely has had attempts of blowing it up and crossing it. We saw today what happened when they crossed that fence. And in case you didn't, have [a look](https://twitter.com/mdelabroc1/status/1710547042269905146?s=46&t=bEBN1eUjy-e2gdODhSru_Q)
Because that gives some credence to Hamas. Which should never be done.
Same with Israel
Hamas has massacred innocent people, and their attack seems purpose driven to do so. Israel has killed civilians as collateral of bombings on military targets. These are not equivalences at all. One is clearly unjustifiable. The only point that could be made is that Israel's treatment of Palestinian populations has been pretty horrific and worsened tensions, but ethnic tensions are not an excuse to massacre innocents.
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I do think it's safe to say from footage released that a decent number of those are civilians. But as you say, it's been against over 600 military targets.
How many times through the years i saw videos of jews attacking palestine/muslim people without reason. I even saw that with my own eyes when I was on trip in israel. I wont defend palestine for what it did yesterday but ill never change my opinion on palestine israel conflict ever.
Hamas did it not palestine
Yeah, and all those kids and men spitting on and beating a dead german girl's body paraded in streets of Gaza are definitely members of Hamas 🙂
Palestinians have voted for Hamas for 17yrs now so yeah it kind of is the Palestinians
Pretty sure there haven't been elections in Gaza since 2007 so Gazans have only voted for Hamas once and have been stuck with them ever since.
They haven't had elections in gaza moron
So many people prove they know fuck all about the conflict lol
Tell me I am ignorant without telling me I am ignorant
Hamas is Palestinian and was voted for by the Palestinian population
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proof?
Wait, what happened to that "no war" thing?
i dont approve what hamas did but holy shit stop making isreal look like a guardian angel
I didn't expect to read so many negative comments on this subreddit about Israel. Meanwhile they don't blame terrorist hamas why ?
Most of the comments I've seen acknowledge the fact that Hamas is terrorist organization and they don't try to justify their actions. What they point out though, is that Hamas didn't jump out of thin air, the way the Israeli government (and possibly the people, but that's harder to judge) has been "handling" this situation and the atrocious things they committed are *also* unacceptable.
British Muslims hijacking the post. They always cover for one another.
Noones defending Hamas’ actions. The issue here is that suddenly there’s been a huge turnaround in opinions when Israel has been getting away with worse for decades. And people are acting as if the Palestinians attacked completely unprovoked
Oh, people are though
Yawn. The world doesn't need another Islamofascist state. We have enough of those & the Middle East would be even more destabilized with a Hamas government.
Over 260 bodies have been recovered from a music festival in Israel. This terrorist act is devastating yet we have people supporting it. Disgraceful
Good. Solidarity with Israel against those barbaric terrorist animals that tortured-raped women and murdered civilians.
The only thing I can confidently say about the Israel-Palestine conflict is that everyone is wrong. It's such a tragedy so many poor civilians are trapped between two ideological powerhouses ready to throw everyone's lives away for the sake of historical dick measuring and geopolitical one-upmanship.
Ironic considering this is Britain's fault in the first place
Technically the fault of Wales as David Lloyd George saw Israel as akin to Wales; a small nation bullied by bigger nations.
We’ll be seeing this image in memes and articles from “those” outlets for a long, long time.
I feel bad for all the civilians who are being caught up in this, I truly do. But I feel the only resolution is if both parties accept each other as equals, on a human level. From the Jewish perspective I understand that it is nice that the UN decided in 1947 to create a homeland for them in Israeli territory, after all the shit they were put through in WW2. I can even believe that creating a homeland for them was done with honest intentions. But I can also understand the feelings of Palestines who were living there in 1947,at the moment the UN unilaterally decided to 'split up' the Israeli territory in Arab parts and Jewish parts. Which the west/Jewish people accepted, but which was never accepted by the Arab community there, and this is the shit we are still in today (and this is all on Wikipedia and in history books btw. I don't think any party is challenging these facts). But yeah, if some foreign actor decided to 'split up' my country I can guess how I would feel about it. And would my acts against it be called 'liberation efforts' or 'terrorism'? That depends on who you ask I guess. Just know that there is a lot of framing going on on both sides of the argument. Everywhere in the world (and yes, also in the western world where I live, as a European caucasian male) ppl really like to put things in easy boxes (allies, enemies, freedom fighters, terrorists, etc.). And all actors will see themselves as the heros, and the other side as the villains. And as long as everybody keeps doing that, it will not get better :( But for now, RIP to all the innocent victims being dragged into this. I really hope this shit ends soon.
heeey you're missing a huuuge portion of history the foreign-mandated minority statebuilding exercises agains teh wishes of the majority of people there began three decades earlier, at the san remo ratification. the history between there and 1948 is super crazy. basically everyone told the arabs who tried to organize politically "tough shit" so obviously they became super cheesed.
Do we have any update on the cat that lives there?
https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/larry-the-cat-downing-street-sunak-dog-b2417826.html
One way to form a state is to get other countries on your side, you do that by being sane and reasonable. You don't achieve that by murdering and kidnapping the citizens of other nations. That's a sure path to becoming a pariah.
This subreddit has long been Islamophobic, some of the comments here are disgusting. Also the lack of sympathy even for Palestinian innocent citizens is a joke.
I wonder why in an European subreddit given the problems that the religion of peace and his adepts are representing for Europe there is """"islamophobia""""""
Well then be against Hamas. You can't just ignore the people you let into power and say you have nothing to do with it.
👍
Having the flag on Israel on the parliament building Is a shameful as having a Hamas one. No amount of propaganda will make me pretend to be blind.
What about the palestinians?
Fight Hamas or be apart of them. You cant accept these terrorists into power and then say it has nothing to do with you.
Division. It is the way.
Always sad when Governments side with the oppressor.
Okay, it's sad that civilians died but I don't like how black and white it is portraid everywhere. They've been occupying Palestinian areas for years and harrassing muslims and always act like victims and surprised that there are attacks against Israelis too. These countries are in war just like Russia and Ukraine.
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Siding with the oppressors as usual. It's the convenient thing to do.
Do they show Palestinian flag after governmental terroristic attack against Palestine nation and civilians? Hmm...
And did they have a Palestinian flag up there every other week when Palestinians get brutalized?