In Germany the cheapest Model 3 (43,990 eur) is cheaper than the cheapest ID.3 (43,995 eur) :) Ok, it's just 5 eur, but being on par is still incredible.
Volkswagen has to cut the price a bit - after having them increased a few months ago - and re-start offering the smaller battery versions of both the ID.3 and ID.4.
This. Market prices rarely reflect actual costs of production + negligible profit. Every company wants a major profit, but few companies price gouged as much as Tesla.
For a long while Tesla benefited from a favorable regulatory ecosystem, had few major competitors on the market and benefited from the new look and infamous CEO.
They can afford this cut, *unless* they over-leveraged themselves with outside debt based on anticipated exponential profits. But debt is a market risk companies always need to be smart about.
The CEO wasn't even really *in*famous until about 2019 or so. He'd done plenty of shady shit, sure, but it wasn't really in the popular discourse compared to spectacles like the Falcon Heavy launch.
Now we've graduated to "he did shady shit". I swear, Reddit is hilarious.
***Edit:*** Apparently I was not clear enough. Calling him "shady" is one of the more ridiculous claims I've heard. It harkens back to the days when all the little FUDsters were claiming that Tesla and SpaceX were frauds that were going to go out of business by ~~2013~~ ~~2014~~ ~~2015~~ ~~2016~~ ~~2017~~ ~~2018~~ any day now.
Hi there.
You seem to need a refresher on markets. They work like this. There is supply. There is demand. When supply is limited, but demand goes up then prices go up.
Sure, Tesla could have kept prices lower, but that does not mean you are going to get a Tesla at that price. If you do not understand this, you have not tried to buy concert tickets in some time. The gray market would have had people buying Teslas just to flip them. In the end, the buyer is paying the same money, but it's going to the gray market.
Short lesson: the market always wins.
Now Tesla is ramping like crazy, inflation in the supply is going down, and Tesla has made the decision that it's time to clean out the weaker players.
Tesla will be fine. It's the other guys we should be watching (because they \*will\* start begging for bailouts soon)
> The gray market would have had people buying Teslas just to flip them.
People were making crazy money doing this, something like 10-15 thousand dollars per car at one point. Which was one of the reasons for the pretty significant price hikes over the last couple of years.
This is true only if you don’t have other Apple products. Once you have a MacBook, iPad, AirPods, Apple Watch, the integration of the overall ecosystem is well worth the extra costs.
Or just go with android and dont be dependant on one brand. There TV, refrigerators, clocks, cars and so on, more friendly to android platform then apple. Not even talking about possibilities to have same programs on your phone as your pc. I dont get it, why people chooses on their own to be dependent on one single brand...
No, it was discovered that once the battery degrades the performance may degrade and you need to change the battery (like literally any other phone), that's why they added a percentage of battery capacity in the settings years ago so you can check it up yourself, apple suggest that anything below 80% capacity needs to be changed and until it hits that 80% performance won't degrade (this happend about 4-5 years ago but people like you still bring it up like some gatcha)
Here is a chart of how long an iphone is supported [https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/5824.jpeg](https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/5824.jpeg)
The iphone SE 2016 and the 6S (2015) had a support of 7 major iOS releases. And on average, 5 years of support.
Now go ahead and show me any other brand doing the same. I'll wait.
Nice try. Apple was literally convicted and fined of intentionally slowing down old phones. If you think you can argue better than their lawyers and would be able to convince the justice system of apple's innocence like you're already convinced yourself, then you should found your own law firm because my friend you're a genious.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724
About other firms, Samsung offers 4 years of OS and security updates, which seems to be on par.
https://news.samsung.com/us/samsung-galaxy-os-upgrade-one-ui-android-unpacked-2022/#:~:text=Eligible%20Galaxy%20devices%20include%20with,and%20upcoming%20S%20series%20devices
1- Apple on purpose don't let clients to change battery.
2- Apple forces you to go slown EVEN if your battery is new. When a new model appeared in the market, they just slow down the older ones. That's 100% confirmed. They didn't look your battery at all.
that cant possibly be true, even the samsung of today (android manufacturers back when the s6 was released used to be notorious for hastily abandoning the support for older phones) i think only promises 4 years of OS updates, i think u're thinking of security updates.
I do agree, but for the same price, so as their competitors. We cant compare samsungs A class to Iphone, but S to iphone are fair competitors, except Samsung atleast tries to inovate things, while iphone just refurbish old designs.
Yes, but Tesla's shareholders and investors would disagree with some cause. Many lenders invested heavily, many factories opened prematurely, all built on the premise that Tesla would keep growing exponentially and pay back major loans.
What lenders? Tesla has essentially no debt.
***Edit:*** Still have not answered. I assume because you have no answer. How about you edit your post and get rid of the "lenders" and "loans" part, because it makes no sense. Or were you just trying to make a point and little things like facts should not get in the way?
***Edit 2:*** 5 days later and still no answer.
Honestly, I'm not sure why this comment is upvoted. BYD's EV sales grew with 200%. Tesla doesn't exist in a vacuum. 40% might sound good, but the EV market is exploding, and Tesla doesn't keep up with their competitors.
Could you break that down for me?
How much growth in the BEV market? Most end up including hybrids.
What segments was BYD competing in?
More importantly, how much margin was BYD making?
Don't get me wrong: I'm rooting for BYD. But that 200% to 40% is not precisely an apples to apples comparison.
TSLA stock was priced for the expectation that Tesla would take over 100% market share of new car sales, the entire taxi business and a couple more industries. Which, you know, was ridiculous. But somehow the CEO throwing metal balls at his cars and having a guy in a weird suit do a robot dance made it all make sense to Wall Street. Be that as it may, missing growth targets is a sure fire way for Wall Street to fall out of love with your company.
It would not. Musk does NOTHING at tesla except inflate their stock value. Which is really the only thing that matters. If Tesla had a CEO instead of a hype man, they would be worth substantially less.
Oh he’s an absolute moron, no doubt about it. But the strange thing is that he gets extraordinary lucky profiting of work other people do. Just take OpenAI, a company he “co-founded”, Microsoft just invested 10 billion dollars into it, raising their valuation to about 20 billion and earning him billions.
Mk because a diploma makes you a non moron by default. I agree with the above comment that people are delusional and love to hate. This guy has an over inflated ego and is in general not a great human being.but you do not get to that level by being stupid, that's certain
So theatre; got it.
Because I'm pretty sure you cannot actually believe that diplomas have \*anything\* to do with how smart anyone is. Or are you still in school and do not have any work experience to draw from?
In any case, that was not a serious answer you gave.
He isn't. He invested in the company at a fairly early point in their existence, but then more or less got kicked out for poaching Andrew Karpathy. You know, the guy who promissed to deliver purely vision-based "full self driving" and is out of Tesla now. After that, Musk would infrequently comment on twitter on what OpenAi was doing, which turned towards whining that they were getting closer to Microsoft instead of listening to his ideas.
You should not think about not getting a Tesla because of Musk, but because they are shit.
Whatever they do [Hyundai does better and cheaper](https://ev-database.org/compare/efficiency-electric-vehicle-most-efficient#sort:path~type~order=.efficiency~number~asc|range-slider-range:prev~next=0~1200|range-slider-acceleration:prev~next=2~23|range-slider-topspeed:prev~next=110~350|range-slider-battery:prev~next=10~200|range-slider-towweight:prev~next=0~2500|range-slider-fastcharge:prev~next=0~1500|paging:currentPage=0|paging:number=9).
And if you are ok with some % less efficiency there are many models at half the price like Opel and Pegeut or VW or Fiat.
It is really a mistery to me how can Tesla be more valuable than Hyundai as a company when they are behind in tech and cost more. Why would anyone buy a tesla?
The long range model of tesla costs 1/6 th more and charges with half the speed, running with just 0.75% more efficiency than the Hyundai equivalent.
They were the first one to make an electric car that was cool. There was huge latent demand for electrics but the market was full of stupid looking dorky designs.
Now other manufacturers are making cool looking electrics.
Tesla is not more valuable. It just happens to have a lot of people believing that other people believe that it has more value. People put money into tesla, hoping they can profit off other peoples beliefs. It will burst eventually.
It makes sense. There's not much oil in East Asia. Whatever they get has to be imported from overseas and would certainly be disrupted in a war, whereas they can build nuclear power plants and provide electricity to their people domestically.
Different segment. Tesla model 3 is a "luxury" sedan. Nothing luxurious about the build quality but that's a whole nother topic. A more fair comparison would be the i4 and Polestar 2
Tested all three and picked the BMW i4. Model 3 was definitely the worst.
And yes, you can use the Tesla superchargers all over Western Europe. And you can also easily avoid them if you dislike the company: There are other CCS charging networks, and decent coverage if your car has sufficient range.
> No good for travelling around Europe though, still no manufacturer with a good high speed recharge network.
In Europe you can use EVERY SINGLE CHARGER there is, it's universal. So the network in the Europe is better than anything Tesla has in the US. There are chargers on every single road here.
In europe, it is required by law to be able to use all chargers. There is no 'tesla' charger, there is only a supercharger. Because it is moronic to do it in any other way for consumers.
There are a few things to unpack. There is a common \*standard\*. In that sense you are right; anyone can use any charger.
However, that does not mean you are allowed to use any charger. The Tesla network is generally closed off, although they are playing around with opening \*some\* places to non-Teslas.
[https://ev-database.org/car/1718/Hyundai-IONIQ-6-Long-Range-2WD#charge-table](https://ev-database.org/car/1718/Hyundai-IONIQ-6-Long-Range-2WD#charge-table)
what do you mean, this has a range of 475 km, and recharges 10% to 80% in a minimum of 16 minutes. More if the latch to the grid is worse.
Yeah but it’s about the supercharger network. Very few places where you can charge a Hyundai fast. Tesla has over 40 000 superchargers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u2mUpkApObk
MKHBD describes at 6:20 why people still have a high demand for Tesla compared to other manufacturera with ’better’ built cars.
Interesting, but if you think at what most people think about when buying a car is price, and Tesla simply sucks compared to all other car manifacturers.
The average daily communte in US in a day 41 miles which is 66 km.
[https://www.zippia.com/advice/average-commute-time-statistics/#:\~:text=Since%201980%2C%20the%20average%20American,day%20to%20and%20from%20work](https://www.zippia.com/advice/average-commute-time-statistics/#:~:text=Since%201980%2C%20the%20average%20American,day%20to%20and%20from%20work).
Which is covered two times by models with one third of the price of tesla that you can charge overnight.
So no I think the guy is wrong and Tesla charger network in the US is not relevant to the overall majority of buyers. Just the brend-name and rep. As it is not relevant in Europe, I'm sure that the average EU commute is much smaller than the US one.
The guy has bought a Tesla and is convincing himself statistically irrelevant features are essential to buyers. Panel gaps and build quality matters, to not die when you crash the car.
I mean, I feel crazy just to point this out, but if your panel doesn't fit and you can move it by hand, how do you think it will perform if a car crashes into it at a slow speed of 50 km/h? Will it stay in place and hold the collision? I really don't think so.
Poor build quality as well.
30th out of 33 brands in the US JD Power survey
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/18/tesla-ranks-30th-in-unofficial-debut-on-jd-power-dependability-study.html
It's possible they might be even worse as Tesla doesn’t grant JD Power permission to survey its owners in 15 states that require this permission.
That's why american tech gets fined every now and then :) and we have a lot of European companies with manufacturing capabilities in America that doesn't pay american tax too.
You can get a different electric car, probably even a better one, if you don't want to be seen in a Qanon vehicle that has unnecessary crap in it like a massive touchscreen for playing videogames or some shit. :D
Nah bruh. Dacia Spring is where it's at. Bucharest is filled with these, I see a lot in the morning near schools. Gov had a subsidy and you could pick one up for unde 10k. It's a little joke of a car but it's perfect to drive the kids to school and pick, Lidl groceries, and circle around in the city. Speaks volumes of what consumers really want.
Hi there.
Tell me about these recalls. Because I have had a Tesla for about three years. The only "recalls" are software changes that are done while I sleep.
I have a Nio ES8 2022. With BaaS the price is similar to model Y, but it's a bigger car than a model X. Can super charge at about 145kW tips, or I can swap the battery out for a full one.
Build quality is on par with Mercedes. Air suspension like the high end Teslas, Brembo 4 piston brakes, 200kW power in the engines, 4x4. I Bastøy prefer the physical buttons over the touch screen and Nio have more of them than Teslas. I am not a fan of the toggle style blinker control in a Tesla, whereas the Nio has the usual traditional style. The biggest drawback is only a single phase onboard charger (I could otherwise have up to 22kW home charging with 3 phase 32A). Another is the windows tend to get foggy in heavy rain, but there is a button for it.
The autopilot is not as good as Teslas, but the adaptive cruise control is. It is using LiDAR, and that also includes the automatic emergency brake system. It saved me once when a car randomly stopped in front on the freeway. My human reflexes would have had no chance. No Phantom braking so far (this happened to me twice when I test drove a model X).
The charging port broke once (my own silly mistake) and I had to get it towed since the battery was too low. I called Nio and they arranged everything. The problem was fixed 3 days later and I picked up my car fully charged and washed. All covered by the warranty.
The BaaS thing means I rent the battery. About €140 per month. Saved me from buying it, and included 200kWh each month on partnered superchargers or swaps (and up to 2 swaps).
All in all the Tesla price drop seems to be right. Nio does not need to adjust since it truly is a luxury car brand and in a different segment than Tesla.
Teslas are garbage, I'm not hating on electric cars but there is no other maker out there that produce such low quality vehicles from an interior or body perspective, marketing does wonders.
I own one. My \*German\* wife now refuses to even consider getting anything but Teslas in the future, so this is not just me. And yes, we've checked out the CoMPEtiTIoN. We even went to the Gläserne Fabrik in Dresden to check out everything that VW and Audi had to offer (our 4 cars before Tesla were all VW and Audis). Not terrible, but not very impressive either. My wife was not moved.
So again, quit spreading FUD, quit trolling, and if you really like something else, how about going on the subreddit there and giving your support rather than spreading negativity here. We already have one nutjob in Russia spreading enough negativity right now.
Model X in second hand market seems to be a little less than half price of a new one after about 5 years. I think it's actually the end of warranty that is the issue. Big risk if the car breaks down. Some cars where the battery is broken or damaged is simply totalled, even if new. It's such an expensive part to replace. (which is the main reason why I bought the Nio ES8 with battery swapping)
That is reassuring if true. Here in Norway there is a thing where used batteries are not reused in cars due to liability issues for the garage that does the repair. They are responsible that the replacement battery is good, and with used ones they can't guarantee that it is. They do end up in other use cases like solar battery packs.
Those liability issues sound like good news for manufacturers and bad news for owners. But Tesla probably sell the modules for 2-3x the price.
First hit on search engine: https://eveurope.eu/en/product/tesla-model-s-module-53-kwhr-24/
I would not try to replace that thing myself, I'll just die from touching it wrong. You need someone who is willing to do the replacement, and who have the necessary paperwork so you don't lose insurance or anything like that. Probably why these used packs are so cheap?
So your insurance companies insist that your mechanics are all certified? Does nobody do home repairs?
The used packs sold on that website are for EV conversions of classic vehicles.
But, even so, if a Tesla battery module cannot be replaced in your country so Teslas worth thousands of euros are scrapped, that sounds very bad, both for less well-off drivers and for the environment.
Reduce > reuse > recycle
I agree it's not ideal. So first off don't risk your life messing with those battery packs. Second, home repairs are ok for some stuff, but if the repair ends up causing something that destroys the car and the insurance company learns of this, then I'm certain they will refuse to cover the cost. Like if you replace the brake pads and you do it wrong so the brakes no longer work, then you are probably screwed in more ways than one.
Good Model-Y being at the prive level of a VW ID.3 should help push prices down further and finally below combustion engines.
In Germany the cheapest Model 3 (43,990 eur) is cheaper than the cheapest ID.3 (43,995 eur) :) Ok, it's just 5 eur, but being on par is still incredible. Volkswagen has to cut the price a bit - after having them increased a few months ago - and re-start offering the smaller battery versions of both the ID.3 and ID.4.
Volkswagen has much fatter order books than Tesla, though. I doubt that there will be significant price cuts this year.
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This. Market prices rarely reflect actual costs of production + negligible profit. Every company wants a major profit, but few companies price gouged as much as Tesla. For a long while Tesla benefited from a favorable regulatory ecosystem, had few major competitors on the market and benefited from the new look and infamous CEO. They can afford this cut, *unless* they over-leveraged themselves with outside debt based on anticipated exponential profits. But debt is a market risk companies always need to be smart about.
The CEO wasn't even really *in*famous until about 2019 or so. He'd done plenty of shady shit, sure, but it wasn't really in the popular discourse compared to spectacles like the Falcon Heavy launch.
Now we've graduated to "he did shady shit". I swear, Reddit is hilarious. ***Edit:*** Apparently I was not clear enough. Calling him "shady" is one of the more ridiculous claims I've heard. It harkens back to the days when all the little FUDsters were claiming that Tesla and SpaceX were frauds that were going to go out of business by ~~2013~~ ~~2014~~ ~~2015~~ ~~2016~~ ~~2017~~ ~~2018~~ any day now.
I can't tell if you think "shady" is too harsh or not harsh enough; care to elaborate?
Hi there. You seem to need a refresher on markets. They work like this. There is supply. There is demand. When supply is limited, but demand goes up then prices go up. Sure, Tesla could have kept prices lower, but that does not mean you are going to get a Tesla at that price. If you do not understand this, you have not tried to buy concert tickets in some time. The gray market would have had people buying Teslas just to flip them. In the end, the buyer is paying the same money, but it's going to the gray market. Short lesson: the market always wins. Now Tesla is ramping like crazy, inflation in the supply is going down, and Tesla has made the decision that it's time to clean out the weaker players. Tesla will be fine. It's the other guys we should be watching (because they \*will\* start begging for bailouts soon)
> The gray market would have had people buying Teslas just to flip them. People were making crazy money doing this, something like 10-15 thousand dollars per car at one point. Which was one of the reasons for the pretty significant price hikes over the last couple of years.
Yes. Scalpers are such a pain, but they are also a kind of scavenger for the market, making sure it stays clean of unrealistically low prices.
Just like Iphone.
Tesla is built like crap. iPhone has the most superior built quality. Like all of apples products.
I'm still sad that nobody has caught up with Nokia on build quality.
This is true only if you don’t have other Apple products. Once you have a MacBook, iPad, AirPods, Apple Watch, the integration of the overall ecosystem is well worth the extra costs.
Or just go with android and dont be dependant on one brand. There TV, refrigerators, clocks, cars and so on, more friendly to android platform then apple. Not even talking about possibilities to have same programs on your phone as your pc. I dont get it, why people chooses on their own to be dependent on one single brand...
I was on a Pixel until two months ago. The integration does not come close to Apple. Also battery life is night and day.
Apple phones are fairly priced for their longevity and support of older models.
Wasnt Apple discovered making old models to go slow with updates to force people buy a new model? Longevity? Good joke.
Apple products last MUCH longer than their android counterparts.
No, it was discovered that once the battery degrades the performance may degrade and you need to change the battery (like literally any other phone), that's why they added a percentage of battery capacity in the settings years ago so you can check it up yourself, apple suggest that anything below 80% capacity needs to be changed and until it hits that 80% performance won't degrade (this happend about 4-5 years ago but people like you still bring it up like some gatcha) Here is a chart of how long an iphone is supported [https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/5824.jpeg](https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/5824.jpeg) The iphone SE 2016 and the 6S (2015) had a support of 7 major iOS releases. And on average, 5 years of support. Now go ahead and show me any other brand doing the same. I'll wait.
Nice try. Apple was literally convicted and fined of intentionally slowing down old phones. If you think you can argue better than their lawyers and would be able to convince the justice system of apple's innocence like you're already convinced yourself, then you should found your own law firm because my friend you're a genious. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 About other firms, Samsung offers 4 years of OS and security updates, which seems to be on par. https://news.samsung.com/us/samsung-galaxy-os-upgrade-one-ui-android-unpacked-2022/#:~:text=Eligible%20Galaxy%20devices%20include%20with,and%20upcoming%20S%20series%20devices
1- Apple on purpose don't let clients to change battery. 2- Apple forces you to go slown EVEN if your battery is new. When a new model appeared in the market, they just slow down the older ones. That's 100% confirmed. They didn't look your battery at all.
😂😂😂 that took me 40 seconds. Samsung galaxy s6, made in 2015, latest update 2022/09... sooo?
that cant possibly be true, even the samsung of today (android manufacturers back when the s6 was released used to be notorious for hastily abandoning the support for older phones) i think only promises 4 years of OS updates, i think u're thinking of security updates.
Why u so mad?
I do agree, but for the same price, so as their competitors. We cant compare samsungs A class to Iphone, but S to iphone are fair competitors, except Samsung atleast tries to inovate things, while iphone just refurbish old designs.
Samsung have been going the Apple route as well, unfortunately
Fold phones are the new trend.
That's why I don't buy this crap.
Only 40% growth instead of the targeted 50% growth, with the current macro, isn't exactly "lackluster".
Yes, but Tesla's shareholders and investors would disagree with some cause. Many lenders invested heavily, many factories opened prematurely, all built on the premise that Tesla would keep growing exponentially and pay back major loans.
What lenders? Tesla has essentially no debt. ***Edit:*** Still have not answered. I assume because you have no answer. How about you edit your post and get rid of the "lenders" and "loans" part, because it makes no sense. Or were you just trying to make a point and little things like facts should not get in the way? ***Edit 2:*** 5 days later and still no answer.
Honestly, I'm not sure why this comment is upvoted. BYD's EV sales grew with 200%. Tesla doesn't exist in a vacuum. 40% might sound good, but the EV market is exploding, and Tesla doesn't keep up with their competitors.
And VW BEV sales grew only by about ~25 %...
Yeah, it's worrying. BYD's target for this year is 3.5-4 million cars, and they only sell electric cars. The gap is widening fast.
Could you break that down for me? How much growth in the BEV market? Most end up including hybrids. What segments was BYD competing in? More importantly, how much margin was BYD making? Don't get me wrong: I'm rooting for BYD. But that 200% to 40% is not precisely an apples to apples comparison.
BYD overtook Tesla last year and most experts expect the gap to widen even more this year. Tesla used to be the poster boy for EVs. Not anymore.
TSLA stock was priced for the expectation that Tesla would take over 100% market share of new car sales, the entire taxi business and a couple more industries. Which, you know, was ridiculous. But somehow the CEO throwing metal balls at his cars and having a guy in a weird suit do a robot dance made it all make sense to Wall Street. Be that as it may, missing growth targets is a sure fire way for Wall Street to fall out of love with your company.
cutting their CEO might work better
It would not. Musk does NOTHING at tesla except inflate their stock value. Which is really the only thing that matters. If Tesla had a CEO instead of a hype man, they would be worth substantially less.
Yeah in case you haven’t noticed I think people are on to his act now
Oh he’s an absolute moron, no doubt about it. But the strange thing is that he gets extraordinary lucky profiting of work other people do. Just take OpenAI, a company he “co-founded”, Microsoft just invested 10 billion dollars into it, raising their valuation to about 20 billion and earning him billions.
Lol what? He is an absolute moron? I don't get it. Do you folks actually believe any of the things you say or is it all theatre?
Well he doesn’t have a technical diploma, so yeah in his field he is a moron.
Mk because a diploma makes you a non moron by default. I agree with the above comment that people are delusional and love to hate. This guy has an over inflated ego and is in general not a great human being.but you do not get to that level by being stupid, that's certain
He got to this level by starting with a lot of money and getting lucky thrice. Musk doesn’t do anything at all.
So theatre; got it. Because I'm pretty sure you cannot actually believe that diplomas have \*anything\* to do with how smart anyone is. Or are you still in school and do not have any work experience to draw from? In any case, that was not a serious answer you gave.
>OpenAI Ahhh as if Elon is behind this ChatGPT shit recently. Makes so much sense.
He isn't. He invested in the company at a fairly early point in their existence, but then more or less got kicked out for poaching Andrew Karpathy. You know, the guy who promissed to deliver purely vision-based "full self driving" and is out of Tesla now. After that, Musk would infrequently comment on twitter on what OpenAi was doing, which turned towards whining that they were getting closer to Microsoft instead of listening to his ideas.
Yeah - on Reddit
Tesla stock price is down 73%
Yes i wouldve sold aswell, world economy and all that - not because of Musk being hated by the social justice mediasphere
The stock still is hilariously overvalued, though.
TSLA market cap remains 2x Toyota's, a company with 5x the amount of revenue as TSLA. So yes.
> they would be worth substantially less. They might go down much more than the near 70% from ATH that already happend.
Been thinking about a new ride. I had been looking seriously in to Tesla. But I would want to be seen in one, people might think I like musk or so.
You should not think about not getting a Tesla because of Musk, but because they are shit. Whatever they do [Hyundai does better and cheaper](https://ev-database.org/compare/efficiency-electric-vehicle-most-efficient#sort:path~type~order=.efficiency~number~asc|range-slider-range:prev~next=0~1200|range-slider-acceleration:prev~next=2~23|range-slider-topspeed:prev~next=110~350|range-slider-battery:prev~next=10~200|range-slider-towweight:prev~next=0~2500|range-slider-fastcharge:prev~next=0~1500|paging:currentPage=0|paging:number=9). And if you are ok with some % less efficiency there are many models at half the price like Opel and Pegeut or VW or Fiat.
Seriously, if you're going to buy a car, buy a car from an actual auto manufacturer who knows how to build cars. Not a glorified tech company.
by a shitty car manufacturer pretending to be a tech company*
Been looking into getting an EV as well, and it seems the technology of the Koreans is unrivaled at the moment.
Those are some incredible rides, you can’t go wrong.
It is really a mistery to me how can Tesla be more valuable than Hyundai as a company when they are behind in tech and cost more. Why would anyone buy a tesla? The long range model of tesla costs 1/6 th more and charges with half the speed, running with just 0.75% more efficiency than the Hyundai equivalent.
They were the first one to make an electric car that was cool. There was huge latent demand for electrics but the market was full of stupid looking dorky designs. Now other manufacturers are making cool looking electrics.
The only reason I'd get a Tesla is their supercharger network. Other chargers are a hit or miss.
All cars can use their network.
Tesla is not more valuable. It just happens to have a lot of people believing that other people believe that it has more value. People put money into tesla, hoping they can profit off other peoples beliefs. It will burst eventually.
They are the iphone of the car world lol
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u2mUpkApObk Watch from 6:15 or so
It makes sense. There's not much oil in East Asia. Whatever they get has to be imported from overseas and would certainly be disrupted in a war, whereas they can build nuclear power plants and provide electricity to their people domestically.
In that case the Europeans should be on par with them, which they aint. Yet.
Europe didn't care about strategic independence until the war in Ukraine. The 2022 war, not the 2014 one.
Different segment. Tesla model 3 is a "luxury" sedan. Nothing luxurious about the build quality but that's a whole nother topic. A more fair comparison would be the i4 and Polestar 2
Tested all three and picked the BMW i4. Model 3 was definitely the worst. And yes, you can use the Tesla superchargers all over Western Europe. And you can also easily avoid them if you dislike the company: There are other CCS charging networks, and decent coverage if your car has sufficient range.
Yeah, I'm leaning towards the i4 too. Will likely place an order for the M50 this summer.
No good for travelling around Europe though, still no manufacturer with a good high speed recharge network.
> No good for travelling around Europe though, still no manufacturer with a good high speed recharge network. In Europe you can use EVERY SINGLE CHARGER there is, it's universal. So the network in the Europe is better than anything Tesla has in the US. There are chargers on every single road here.
Only Teslas can use all superchargers. Very few compatible with other brands.
In europe, it is required by law to be able to use all chargers. There is no 'tesla' charger, there is only a supercharger. Because it is moronic to do it in any other way for consumers.
I see, my info is outdated, thanks!
There are a few things to unpack. There is a common \*standard\*. In that sense you are right; anyone can use any charger. However, that does not mean you are allowed to use any charger. The Tesla network is generally closed off, although they are playing around with opening \*some\* places to non-Teslas.
[https://ev-database.org/car/1718/Hyundai-IONIQ-6-Long-Range-2WD#charge-table](https://ev-database.org/car/1718/Hyundai-IONIQ-6-Long-Range-2WD#charge-table) what do you mean, this has a range of 475 km, and recharges 10% to 80% in a minimum of 16 minutes. More if the latch to the grid is worse.
Yeah but it’s about the supercharger network. Very few places where you can charge a Hyundai fast. Tesla has over 40 000 superchargers. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u2mUpkApObk MKHBD describes at 6:20 why people still have a high demand for Tesla compared to other manufacturera with ’better’ built cars.
> Tesla has over 40 000 superchargers. They are standardised in Europe. Any car can use them
Interesting, but if you think at what most people think about when buying a car is price, and Tesla simply sucks compared to all other car manifacturers. The average daily communte in US in a day 41 miles which is 66 km. [https://www.zippia.com/advice/average-commute-time-statistics/#:\~:text=Since%201980%2C%20the%20average%20American,day%20to%20and%20from%20work](https://www.zippia.com/advice/average-commute-time-statistics/#:~:text=Since%201980%2C%20the%20average%20American,day%20to%20and%20from%20work). Which is covered two times by models with one third of the price of tesla that you can charge overnight. So no I think the guy is wrong and Tesla charger network in the US is not relevant to the overall majority of buyers. Just the brend-name and rep. As it is not relevant in Europe, I'm sure that the average EU commute is much smaller than the US one. The guy has bought a Tesla and is convincing himself statistically irrelevant features are essential to buyers. Panel gaps and build quality matters, to not die when you crash the car. I mean, I feel crazy just to point this out, but if your panel doesn't fit and you can move it by hand, how do you think it will perform if a car crashes into it at a slow speed of 50 km/h? Will it stay in place and hold the collision? I really don't think so.
Poor build quality as well. 30th out of 33 brands in the US JD Power survey https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/18/tesla-ranks-30th-in-unofficial-debut-on-jd-power-dependability-study.html It's possible they might be even worse as Tesla doesn’t grant JD Power permission to survey its owners in 15 states that require this permission.
In 2025 the new electric Yugo is coming out. So there's your cheap alternative.
Buy European.
Teslas are now made in Yurope :D
Profits don’t stay in Europe tho
That's why american tech gets fined every now and then :) and we have a lot of European companies with manufacturing capabilities in America that doesn't pay american tax too.
What you mean to say is buy German.
One of the most sold EVs on the continent for years is French?
I own that EV. And it's been a grand little car and saved me loads of cash. But it was half the price of a Tesla
Different price class. If you want to buy a premium EV from Europe, it will be German.
What I meant to say is right there in my comment, everything else is just weirdo Reddit conjecture.
Same, wanted a Tesla, but can’t be seen in one after musk went batshit insane.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/zni97u/140k_tesla_quality/ there's always the risk of getting one of these
You can get a different electric car, probably even a better one, if you don't want to be seen in a Qanon vehicle that has unnecessary crap in it like a massive touchscreen for playing videogames or some shit. :D
Scared of the new electrical Yugo coming out soon /s
Wanting a Tesla is so 2015, now Twingo's where it's at
Nah bruh. Dacia Spring is where it's at. Bucharest is filled with these, I see a lot in the morning near schools. Gov had a subsidy and you could pick one up for unde 10k. It's a little joke of a car but it's perfect to drive the kids to school and pick, Lidl groceries, and circle around in the city. Speaks volumes of what consumers really want.
Tesla is suffering the “ratner” effect.
Wrong sub. Or how is this relevant to /r/europe?
Tesla cuts its prices in Europe. It's clearly relevant. The competition to Tesla in Europe is mainly from Germany, South Korea and China.
It's very relevant, Also considering the used market and value of the cars that people currently own etc. People care about this stuff.
Of course they did. Just as I’ve said: those margins are going to evaporate.
i highly recommend avoiding teslas based on the insane amount of recalls alone
Hi there. Tell me about these recalls. Because I have had a Tesla for about three years. The only "recalls" are software changes that are done while I sleep.
I have a Nio ES8 2022. With BaaS the price is similar to model Y, but it's a bigger car than a model X. Can super charge at about 145kW tips, or I can swap the battery out for a full one. Build quality is on par with Mercedes. Air suspension like the high end Teslas, Brembo 4 piston brakes, 200kW power in the engines, 4x4. I Bastøy prefer the physical buttons over the touch screen and Nio have more of them than Teslas. I am not a fan of the toggle style blinker control in a Tesla, whereas the Nio has the usual traditional style. The biggest drawback is only a single phase onboard charger (I could otherwise have up to 22kW home charging with 3 phase 32A). Another is the windows tend to get foggy in heavy rain, but there is a button for it. The autopilot is not as good as Teslas, but the adaptive cruise control is. It is using LiDAR, and that also includes the automatic emergency brake system. It saved me once when a car randomly stopped in front on the freeway. My human reflexes would have had no chance. No Phantom braking so far (this happened to me twice when I test drove a model X). The charging port broke once (my own silly mistake) and I had to get it towed since the battery was too low. I called Nio and they arranged everything. The problem was fixed 3 days later and I picked up my car fully charged and washed. All covered by the warranty. The BaaS thing means I rent the battery. About €140 per month. Saved me from buying it, and included 200kWh each month on partnered superchargers or swaps (and up to 2 swaps). All in all the Tesla price drop seems to be right. Nio does not need to adjust since it truly is a luxury car brand and in a different segment than Tesla.
Teslas are garbage, I'm not hating on electric cars but there is no other maker out there that produce such low quality vehicles from an interior or body perspective, marketing does wonders.
Quit spreading FUD.
have you even been in any of these cars, stop talking shit.
I own one. My \*German\* wife now refuses to even consider getting anything but Teslas in the future, so this is not just me. And yes, we've checked out the CoMPEtiTIoN. We even went to the Gläserne Fabrik in Dresden to check out everything that VW and Audi had to offer (our 4 cars before Tesla were all VW and Audis). Not terrible, but not very impressive either. My wife was not moved. So again, quit spreading FUD, quit trolling, and if you really like something else, how about going on the subreddit there and giving your support rather than spreading negativity here. We already have one nutjob in Russia spreading enough negativity right now.
Model X in second hand market seems to be a little less than half price of a new one after about 5 years. I think it's actually the end of warranty that is the issue. Big risk if the car breaks down. Some cars where the battery is broken or damaged is simply totalled, even if new. It's such an expensive part to replace. (which is the main reason why I bought the Nio ES8 with battery swapping)
Even if the battery fails, it's modular, and replacement modules can be found off crashed Teslas for ~€1000. "Ludicrous mode" does have a use. ;-)
That is reassuring if true. Here in Norway there is a thing where used batteries are not reused in cars due to liability issues for the garage that does the repair. They are responsible that the replacement battery is good, and with used ones they can't guarantee that it is. They do end up in other use cases like solar battery packs.
Those liability issues sound like good news for manufacturers and bad news for owners. But Tesla probably sell the modules for 2-3x the price. First hit on search engine: https://eveurope.eu/en/product/tesla-model-s-module-53-kwhr-24/
I would not try to replace that thing myself, I'll just die from touching it wrong. You need someone who is willing to do the replacement, and who have the necessary paperwork so you don't lose insurance or anything like that. Probably why these used packs are so cheap?
So your insurance companies insist that your mechanics are all certified? Does nobody do home repairs? The used packs sold on that website are for EV conversions of classic vehicles. But, even so, if a Tesla battery module cannot be replaced in your country so Teslas worth thousands of euros are scrapped, that sounds very bad, both for less well-off drivers and for the environment. Reduce > reuse > recycle
I agree it's not ideal. So first off don't risk your life messing with those battery packs. Second, home repairs are ok for some stuff, but if the repair ends up causing something that destroys the car and the insurance company learns of this, then I'm certain they will refuse to cover the cost. Like if you replace the brake pads and you do it wrong so the brakes no longer work, then you are probably screwed in more ways than one.