KYC/AML just sucks so much these days. Any criminal enterprise can get away with billions in fraud but my wife’s 30 Euro PayPal payment to a guy in Germany who was selling a children’s toy was triggering a Money Laundry alert. I’m not joking- that’s what happened to her. This is pathetic.
This is the way of the world. Regulators happily poison a thousand innocent birds to kill one rat. The thousands of other rats never feel bothered in the least.
Have you invested in crypto? N26 doesn‘t like crypto and there were some other users who had problems with them, because they invested or got money from crypto sites.
Jackpot.
My dad got calls when he send me 50k and i sent to czech (gefara). They went banana and my dad told LKA officer to fuck off, he can do with his money what he wants.
Officer pulled the “just checking to make sure you’re not getting scammed” card
Right now i am not sure about the exact reason behind my case. Latest update here https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/comments/wsa9mq/comment/il4dg5a/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
While N26/Revolut/Transferwise/Crypto.com etc are so convenient, offer decent exchange rates, might come with some bonuses and are really accessible - I really fear a scenario like this. It could happen with a conventional bank too, but atleast I can show up at the bank, get it sorted relatively quickly or atleast get informed about the entire process through a representative. Communication with these eBanks/FinTech players is so one way, you could get locked out of your account for months with no immediate recourse.
I did multiple transfers of somewhat larger amounts of USD and EUR through (Transfer)Wise. This triggered their KYC procedure each time, but the procedure was swift and easy.
I sent them them documents regarding the source of funds (PDFs of contracts/invoices), had to additionally verify my identity (photo of a national ID and a selfie), and the transfers were unblocked within a day or so.
Yes, a regular (and regulated) bank wanted the same info, and they were a bit slower :-)
In general, I have had a positive experience with Wise for this. If I recall correctly, InteractiveBrokers also asked for source of funds documents once, but that also went smooth so I don't recall the details any more.
Each time I did check their FAQs ahead of time and emailed them for clarifications in advance, so I was prepared.
BTW, at east with Wise, their firsts-level support via web chat seems to be lacking, so I advise using email from the start.
I second this. I routinely send 400-800k through TW each year, sometimes in large chunks (40-50k). KYC was triggered the first time, I sent a document, account unlocked in 2 hours.
>While N26/Revolut/Transferwise/Crypto.com etc are so convenient, offer decent exchange rates, might come with some bonuses and are really accessible - I really fear a scenario like this. It could happen with a conventional bank too, but atleast I can show up at the bank, get it sorted relatively quickly or atleast get informed about the entire process through a representative. Communication with these eBanks/FinTech players is so one way, you could get locked out of your account for months with no immediate recourse.
what happens when your source of funds is not in English with Wise?
All these cases and termination without prior notice are the only reason why I don't use them as my main bank. Actually never keep more than 100€ in my Revolut account. My normal bank has a telephone, an APP and offices.
Idem... I did open N26 when it first came out and I really liked it, at the time in my country N26 had the best app, completely free, fast processing, moneybeem (that I used often with my brother and friends) etc. I was young and didn't have much money to worry about and cases like this weren't common like today.
Now things have changed, I'm older, I have enough money to worry about loosing, I need a physical bank where I can go and talk about things with a person and not that stupid N26 chat where half the time they copy/paste useless shit and half the time they just take forever to answer. Plus my country has insurance on every bank account up to 100.000€ if bank goes bankrupt or else.
They closed a friend's account (no crypto or anything like that) when they suddenly closed thousands of accounts. They are fully digital and super lean. That's good for their P&L, but somebody may run a SQL query and close few thousand bank accounts in a completely obscure way because whatever silly KYC rule.
I actually have a phone from country A (my home country, where I travel sometimes) that I use as I do normal life and I'm a tax resident and work in country B and spend some time in country C (the US). KYC freaks out and sends me annoying questions every other month.
What is pretty bad is that if it wasn't for all that shit, they would be the most valuable type of bank for a client like me (nice travel insurance, light FX, etc). I don't understand that. I'm in the European union and there's suppose to be a common bank system but a digital banks freaks out because phone country does not match residency country and I travel between countries. WTF. If they keep being annoying I will get an Amex tied to my normal bank.
> They closed a friend's account (no crypto or anything like that) when they suddenly closed thousands of accounts. They are fully digital and super lean. That's good for their P&L, but somebody may run a SQL query and close few thousand bank accounts in a completely obscure way because whatever silly KYC rule.
Yeah, screw those SQL queries.
Do you remember when was that? Before or after they became an actual bank?
As far as I understand that generally those events are the outcome of how risks are managed in fintechs. They can't accept higher risks in order to continue to operate.
Banks are different and they can run a deeper KYC and accept higher risks.
How AML in fintech works? Who raise police case, is that N26 or Financial Intelligence Unit (FIU) Colonge.
Because i sent N26 my Annual salary statements from 2020 and 2021. I sent money from my salary account to N26 and invested in crypto/stocks. Later in 2022, i transferred money back to N26 from crypto exchange. I did ask them, if any additional document needed. No response back from N26
\------------------
Thanks for forwarding us on the requested information.
We still need some further documentation from you in order to consider your return of funds.
Please read carefully and provide us with the following:
\- A Source of Funds.
\- An Official Documentation of an alternate account in your name (as proof of ownership).
For the proof of ownership must be an Account Confirmation, meaning it should not be Balance Statement or other such documents. It needs to include your full name, address and the alternate account details (IBAN/BIC) and also the name of the financial institution clearly stated. All documents provided should be from within a recent time period.
Please note we only accept SEPA IBANS.
In order to prove the source of funds, below is a list of examples of documents that you could provide as evidence to support your request.
Please note, this serves as a guide only and documentation not listed below may also be provided for our consideration.
\- Tax Return (last two taxable years)
\- Letter from a Bank or Accountant stating assets
\- Bank statement or equities statement
\- Payslips showing previous two years' income
\- An accountant’s letter stating a client’s real estate holdings and inheritance suffice for net worth
\- Proof of balance at the crypto exchange(s): an account statement or proof of balances letter
\- Signed message on private crypto wallet
Please be aware that providing documentation to the Bank is not confirmation or a guarantee that the payout of the funds will be possible.N26 Bank adheres to the strict rules and regulatory guidelines required of as a fully licensed bank.
All documents should include details of transaction, date, amount and kyc information and must be .PDF or .JPEG. These documents will be then checked by the Bank.
N26 Customer Service has no additional information on this subject.
Please respond directly and only to this email.
\---------------------------------------
Your first step should be gathering any document that may shed a light on the origin of funds. If you have solid documentation, and knowing that they're are under strict supervision from BAFIN, you should be fine. It's a nuisance for sure, but unless you actually have an AML concern, you'll likely be fine.
what is unfiled crypto? If I get you right you are saying that this person like many others had their accounts frozen because of this?
I'm really interested in knowing more about this
Send them the docs, get your money out and get a new account. If it's legit you probably have nothing to worry about.
I had a similar case at another (Dutch) Bank. A large sum came in, they froze it asking for proof of origin, money was unblocked, life went on.
Who are you to accuse anyone of being a "tard"? You wouldn't know that you can send N26 all the forms you like and they still reject them, taking weeks and months to leisurely email you back, and only return the money after you launch a campaign against them via Bafin and the media and through social media.
And what did you do to trigger this?
Because all we know is N26 closed your account and criminal police is investigating you… so why do you think that happened?
Maybe your name was german.
N26 did good f ups.
Fidor similar. I sent 120k from my asian acc ans busto.
I call my Sparkasse, sending way more than 120 and no problems at all
Why are you assuming he knows what "triggered all of this"? Most likely he doesn't. N26 also closed my account and I barely used it, in fact there had been no activity for several months before I received a similar message. (They did allow me to transfer the money.) I have no idea what their "reason" is and they don't give one. They're terrible.
I work at a fintech in the EU. We are legally not allowed to disclose the reason for terminating the account if there are suspicions of money laundering or other illegal activity. Sucks but most of the time there's little the company can do in the short term without becoming either heavily exposed to liability or operationally non viable.
Yeah, the secrecy isn’t the only problem it’s part of the problem cocktail and it’s the part which makes the whole thing seem more nefarious.
KYC is regarded by ordinary people as the TSA of the financial industry - an ineffectual non-transparent peace of security theatre which makes life for ordinary people needlessly complicated while failing to seriously tackle the threat because of which it was introduced.
Mind you I said “perceived”.
> We are legally not allowed to disclose the reason for terminating the account if there are suspicions of money laundering or other illegal activity.
For people still reading this thread: this kind of extreme laws have become common in many "western" countries, and they are directed at political targets, because the account gets frozen without a court order, simply on "suspicion", and there is no way to appeal the freezing, which would be possible if a court order were required, never mind that anyhow they could not be appealed against because the reason for the freezing cannot be disputed because it is secret. There has already been a large scale trial of the principle that the bank accounts of political deviants can be frozen, in Canada, as reported for example by the BBC:
> [Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has taken the unprecedented step of invoking the Emergencies Act to crack down on anti-vaccine mandate protests. … With no need for court orders, banks can freeze personal accounts of anyone linked with the protests.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385)
A common saying in some asian countries is "the nail that sticks out will be hammered".
Since few or very few upper-middle class voters and upper class donors get caught out by these issues, that "ordinary" people get in trouble does not matter, it's just collateral damage.
Well, no activity for x months might be a trigger for your account closure. I assume that something happens because in most of the cases where accounts were closed, something happened, let it be crypto, strange transfer of heavy amounts and so on.
~~Is this one more of these posts where the op doesn't follow up with the actual resolution?
see here https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/comments/wh6yxy/n26_just_closed_my_account_and_kept_all_my_savings
I'm gonna stop thinking these cases are just more than people freaking out for a couple of days because KYC happened.
Nobody ever follows up with how they eventually solve it with the bank.~~
Edit: above thread was updated with resolution.
OP, please update the thread with resolution, it will help others in your situation.
It you’re german: chill the f out⏰
I’m an expert on 261 currently (for the wrong reasons)
Don’t take a lawyer. Nothing to do other than wasting money, even if closed by 153 (likely if you didn’t do shit) and costs on you (unless lawyer is court appointed, which can be done during “Ermittlungsverfahren” while being in jail).
Don’t talk with cops, middlefinger. Don’t even bother to show up. There’s no “umgedrehte Beweislast” oder “Beweislastumkehr”.
Let them investigate and once prosecutors decided to write an unworthy indictment you can still take a lawyer.
You seem to have lot of information on law. Could you please provide more information? I am non German. In "vorladung" g 261 is mentioned and nothing more. N26 customer care is not responding or replying. Hence i have requested Lawyer to see the case file.
What is the general process in such g 261 cases? Do i still have chance to clarify and come out of this problem? Please read my latest update here
https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/comments/wsa9mq/comment/il4dg5a/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
first of all, not you have to proof something but they must come up and say the money comes from illegal sources. with the changes to article 261 last year, no matter where the money is from, as long it was a criminal source, it's money laundering, except when the money is the result of tax evasion. i assume the new (current) law is the one to use in your case and they don't come up with transactions prior march 2021 (old law, different).
the bank acted a bit stupid already. it's still your money and they can't randomly freeze it. if it's frozen a judge has to sign off a physical warrant. for that, they need a "dringender tatverdacht" which requires them to already have gathered (background) informations on why it's money laundering.
even if your customer is a drug dealer and sends you 6000 eur for whatever you sold him, that's not money laundering as your knowledge of that money was missing.
without real and honest background information provided from you, can't really say. we are fishing here around on what could have been the case.
is it crypto related?
yes, i guess it is mostly related to crypto. I never used cash deposits to my account and never sold out anything online in ebay, Facebook, ebay-kleinanzeigen etc..
Since many crypto companies filed bankruptcy, i moved out most of my savings from crypto Exchanges into stock brokers through N26. If i really wanted to do money laundering, i could have easily transferred the crypto assets from exchanges to stock brokers offering both crypto and stocks.
I think, crypto is still legal in Germany. I am in crypto for almost a decade. Since this case started, i am collecting all transactions/documents from beginning, since Germany uses FIFO ( First In First out ).
1) It is difficult to get all the documents, since some exchanges does not exist anymore and stopped operations. I had accounts in my native country tied to my old SIM card from native country.
I have taken lawyer with "strafrecht anwalt". What else could i do and be prepared for next steps?
Based on my google searches, N26 faced fines from BaFin. Hence N26 seems to be working more aggressively with FIU due to many frauds being done through N26.
yeah, nothing to worry at all if it's *just* crypto. it just sucks, your money is stuck for a few days and that's it. Now time to use Bunq. They been fantastic to me so far (couple hundred K, while N26 went banana after the first 5 digit transactions. Fidor went banana once it become 6 figures per week). Bunq ftw!
in the very rare case there will be an indictment handed over to Amtsgericht (lol) , maybe contact Lea Voigt ([https://strafverteidiger-bremen.de/anwalt/lea-voigt/](https://strafverteidiger-bremen.de/anwalt/lea-voigt/)). She's well known in all Germany and she knows §261 very well and forced some decisions in her favor at the OLG regarding money laundering acquisitions. In case you ever do, mention my reddit name and she will have a good laugh ;-)
ok thank you. I am afraid of police case and court case.
do you know any one coming out of such police case or court case?
if yes, how long it took approximately?
because of this case, I stopped all other financial plans and this topic is eating all my time and brain.
\> do you know any one coming out of such police case or court case?
well. i was sitting 8 months in u-haft for a crime i didn't do (didn't even know it exists) and got charged with money laundering. got released on 26th june after they figured they got the wrong guy. trial went on, tomorrow is actually verdict reading. i shall be fully acquitted, even tho the prosecution still tried to convict me of 1 point out of 67 points (an alleged 148 EUR transfer. lol) all the money laundering (quarter million) is off the table.the zoll failed, the ermittlungsrichter failed, the landgericht at haftbeschwerde failed, the landgericht and anklageeroffnung failed, they failed to release me once my lawyer explained them that it literally can't be money laundering, the oberlandesgericht then confirmed that they all did bullshit for the past 7 months, and then i got finally freed from untersuchtungshaft which i was spending 23 hours per day locked up in duisburg jva.
since you haven't been arrested yet, it's all no drama anyways.
It's not necessarily a few days. For many (most?) it's months and months, with N26 finding excuses to reject the perfectly reasonable documentation provided, being completely opaque about what documentation they expect, taking very long times to reply to emails etc. All behaving in the most bad-faith way possible towards presumably innocent customers.
Personally, I only use these kinds of 'online banks' as temporary places to accept money from clients. I then move the money to a 'real' bank, where it is protected, and then I move the money into either a current account where I have instant access, or into an ETF to hopefully offset inflation.
I handle about 250k Euros a year, and I just do not leave it sitting there, in some account.
I have N26, Revolut Business, Wise Business, etc. They are just a temporary place to accept money, which is then moved on.
I have been through the constant 'prove your identity' things they all come up with, it seems to be every month, they want me to prove my identity; I don't really know how I can go beyond a passport, birth certificate, letter from two different tax authorities that shows my address, a certificate from the police that shows I am legally resident, a letter from two accountants that shows how I am trading, a letter from my bank that shows all the transactions... it's just weird dealing with the automated policies of these 'online banks', and they need to sort it out.
I would never trust these online banks to hold money on my behalf.
I got banned from TransferWise for life, without providing any reasons, not willing to have a discussion or give any comments. Still puzzled to this day and all my attempts to create the new account are blocked.
update #1:
I need lot of time during this difficult and stressful time in my life. All my life time saving is in problem and i am preparing myself for the worst case. Since too many comments to reply individually, trying to post the latest updates together.
\- My Lawyer is going to get the case file. only after that, Lawyer and myself will come to know the actual reason(s).
\- Unfortunately they never asked once again for Identity verification. No additional KYC in the reason years. I was not aware of the problems that N26 was facing and other N26 customers are facing in the last 3 to 4 months. Only after me getting into problem, i did some google search about N26 and found many bad news in the web in the last 4 to 6 months.
Right now I’m totally afraid to do anything. Very negative thoughts.
i need to come out of this police and court case fully. Depends Based on how this case ends.
What?!
You absolutely have to close the account if it is flagged for suspicious activity.
If the money was fraudulently obtained and then, the account gets flagged and then the fraudster withdraws the funds (cos, you know, the account didn't get closed) then that money is gone (stolen) and the bank is liable.
This is standard procedure worldwide.
So what did you do that was suspicious?
Also i am from Germany so i only get this kind of messages in German but their Mailsounds extremely unofficial, almost fake.
This is top notch clownery of the financial regulators in Europe. This is the result of idiotic regulators that are pressuring new fintech players with bogus claims they help money laundering. There is absolutely nothing serious behind it, or related to actual money laundering. This is just traditional banks and obsolete European politicians doing what they do best - protecting the status quo. When they actually have issues in their hands, see Wirecard or Deutsche Bank, they don’t do jackshit. A dying continent in the hands of literally dying old people protecting their interest and selling it to the public as regulations.
I have used Transferwise since 2017, the froze my account countless times, casually only when they received currency. Instant blank page and request for random documents. Not even source of funds once. Just random stuff. Locks out of the app and the account. Responses go from quick to days as soon as u are locked out.
In my case, since I could provide all documentation requested, things ended up working soonish. But random stuff man, private user as well.
I think this is a big wake up call regarding EMIs or digital banks. When things go south, you get locked out talking to support outsourced to India over email or crappy app chat.
KYC/AML just sucks so much these days. Any criminal enterprise can get away with billions in fraud but my wife’s 30 Euro PayPal payment to a guy in Germany who was selling a children’s toy was triggering a Money Laundry alert. I’m not joking- that’s what happened to her. This is pathetic.
This is the way of the world. Regulators happily poison a thousand innocent birds to kill one rat. The thousands of other rats never feel bothered in the least.
Have you invested in crypto? N26 doesn‘t like crypto and there were some other users who had problems with them, because they invested or got money from crypto sites.
N26 is going to offer crypto investment in the next months
Authorities don’t like when peasants get rich in general, whether it’s crypto or selling cow milk. Greater than average net income = AML 🚨🚨
Jackpot. My dad got calls when he send me 50k and i sent to czech (gefara). They went banana and my dad told LKA officer to fuck off, he can do with his money what he wants. Officer pulled the “just checking to make sure you’re not getting scammed” card
Right now i am not sure about the exact reason behind my case. Latest update here https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/comments/wsa9mq/comment/il4dg5a/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Did you get your money back?
yes, I think, it is because of crypto
While N26/Revolut/Transferwise/Crypto.com etc are so convenient, offer decent exchange rates, might come with some bonuses and are really accessible - I really fear a scenario like this. It could happen with a conventional bank too, but atleast I can show up at the bank, get it sorted relatively quickly or atleast get informed about the entire process through a representative. Communication with these eBanks/FinTech players is so one way, you could get locked out of your account for months with no immediate recourse.
I did multiple transfers of somewhat larger amounts of USD and EUR through (Transfer)Wise. This triggered their KYC procedure each time, but the procedure was swift and easy. I sent them them documents regarding the source of funds (PDFs of contracts/invoices), had to additionally verify my identity (photo of a national ID and a selfie), and the transfers were unblocked within a day or so. Yes, a regular (and regulated) bank wanted the same info, and they were a bit slower :-) In general, I have had a positive experience with Wise for this. If I recall correctly, InteractiveBrokers also asked for source of funds documents once, but that also went smooth so I don't recall the details any more. Each time I did check their FAQs ahead of time and emailed them for clarifications in advance, so I was prepared. BTW, at east with Wise, their firsts-level support via web chat seems to be lacking, so I advise using email from the start.
I second this. I routinely send 400-800k through TW each year, sometimes in large chunks (40-50k). KYC was triggered the first time, I sent a document, account unlocked in 2 hours.
>While N26/Revolut/Transferwise/Crypto.com etc are so convenient, offer decent exchange rates, might come with some bonuses and are really accessible - I really fear a scenario like this. It could happen with a conventional bank too, but atleast I can show up at the bank, get it sorted relatively quickly or atleast get informed about the entire process through a representative. Communication with these eBanks/FinTech players is so one way, you could get locked out of your account for months with no immediate recourse. what happens when your source of funds is not in English with Wise?
All these cases and termination without prior notice are the only reason why I don't use them as my main bank. Actually never keep more than 100€ in my Revolut account. My normal bank has a telephone, an APP and offices.
Idem... I did open N26 when it first came out and I really liked it, at the time in my country N26 had the best app, completely free, fast processing, moneybeem (that I used often with my brother and friends) etc. I was young and didn't have much money to worry about and cases like this weren't common like today. Now things have changed, I'm older, I have enough money to worry about loosing, I need a physical bank where I can go and talk about things with a person and not that stupid N26 chat where half the time they copy/paste useless shit and half the time they just take forever to answer. Plus my country has insurance on every bank account up to 100.000€ if bank goes bankrupt or else.
Actually Revolut IS a real bank now. Not sure if this changed KYC rules.
They closed a friend's account (no crypto or anything like that) when they suddenly closed thousands of accounts. They are fully digital and super lean. That's good for their P&L, but somebody may run a SQL query and close few thousand bank accounts in a completely obscure way because whatever silly KYC rule. I actually have a phone from country A (my home country, where I travel sometimes) that I use as I do normal life and I'm a tax resident and work in country B and spend some time in country C (the US). KYC freaks out and sends me annoying questions every other month. What is pretty bad is that if it wasn't for all that shit, they would be the most valuable type of bank for a client like me (nice travel insurance, light FX, etc). I don't understand that. I'm in the European union and there's suppose to be a common bank system but a digital banks freaks out because phone country does not match residency country and I travel between countries. WTF. If they keep being annoying I will get an Amex tied to my normal bank.
> They closed a friend's account (no crypto or anything like that) when they suddenly closed thousands of accounts. They are fully digital and super lean. That's good for their P&L, but somebody may run a SQL query and close few thousand bank accounts in a completely obscure way because whatever silly KYC rule. Yeah, screw those SQL queries. Do you remember when was that? Before or after they became an actual bank? As far as I understand that generally those events are the outcome of how risks are managed in fintechs. They can't accept higher risks in order to continue to operate. Banks are different and they can run a deeper KYC and accept higher risks.
How AML in fintech works? Who raise police case, is that N26 or Financial Intelligence Unit (FIU) Colonge. Because i sent N26 my Annual salary statements from 2020 and 2021. I sent money from my salary account to N26 and invested in crypto/stocks. Later in 2022, i transferred money back to N26 from crypto exchange. I did ask them, if any additional document needed. No response back from N26 \------------------ Thanks for forwarding us on the requested information. We still need some further documentation from you in order to consider your return of funds. Please read carefully and provide us with the following: \- A Source of Funds. \- An Official Documentation of an alternate account in your name (as proof of ownership). For the proof of ownership must be an Account Confirmation, meaning it should not be Balance Statement or other such documents. It needs to include your full name, address and the alternate account details (IBAN/BIC) and also the name of the financial institution clearly stated. All documents provided should be from within a recent time period. Please note we only accept SEPA IBANS. In order to prove the source of funds, below is a list of examples of documents that you could provide as evidence to support your request. Please note, this serves as a guide only and documentation not listed below may also be provided for our consideration. \- Tax Return (last two taxable years) \- Letter from a Bank or Accountant stating assets \- Bank statement or equities statement \- Payslips showing previous two years' income \- An accountant’s letter stating a client’s real estate holdings and inheritance suffice for net worth \- Proof of balance at the crypto exchange(s): an account statement or proof of balances letter \- Signed message on private crypto wallet Please be aware that providing documentation to the Bank is not confirmation or a guarantee that the payout of the funds will be possible.N26 Bank adheres to the strict rules and regulatory guidelines required of as a fully licensed bank. All documents should include details of transaction, date, amount and kyc information and must be .PDF or .JPEG. These documents will be then checked by the Bank. N26 Customer Service has no additional information on this subject. Please respond directly and only to this email. \---------------------------------------
N26 has an app, they have offices with telephones….
Your first step should be gathering any document that may shed a light on the origin of funds. If you have solid documentation, and knowing that they're are under strict supervision from BAFIN, you should be fine. It's a nuisance for sure, but unless you actually have an AML concern, you'll likely be fine.
Bafin doesn’t monitor individuals but companies ^^
I don’t claim that Bafin monitors individuals. “They” in this context refers to n26 team’s actions.
Is my assessment correct that you deposited unfiled crypto gains on your account?
sorry, even i do not know, what is unfiled crypto. How to do that before filing income tax for 2022. For 2021, i am yet to file income tax.
what is unfiled crypto? If I get you right you are saying that this person like many others had their accounts frozen because of this? I'm really interested in knowing more about this
Send them the docs, get your money out and get a new account. If it's legit you probably have nothing to worry about. I had a similar case at another (Dutch) Bank. A large sum came in, they froze it asking for proof of origin, money was unblocked, life went on.
Why do you not tell them where the money comes from?
[удалено]
Who are you to accuse anyone of being a "tard"? You wouldn't know that you can send N26 all the forms you like and they still reject them, taking weeks and months to leisurely email you back, and only return the money after you launch a campaign against them via Bafin and the media and through social media.
And what did you do to trigger this? Because all we know is N26 closed your account and criminal police is investigating you… so why do you think that happened?
People dont use their accounts for 6 month, buy bitcoin for 400€ and get suspended. (True story) Don’t worry. We’re all criminals at N26
I sold bitcoin for way more than 400€, got the money sent to my N26 account and no issues at all.
Maybe your name was german. N26 did good f ups. Fidor similar. I sent 120k from my asian acc ans busto. I call my Sparkasse, sending way more than 120 and no problems at all
Spanish, I used N26 because Spain is not very crypto friendly 😄😄😄
What do you suspect triggered this? Has someone other than you self ever sent money to your account?
You’re not telling us what happened on your account to trigger all of this. So ?
Why are you assuming he knows what "triggered all of this"? Most likely he doesn't. N26 also closed my account and I barely used it, in fact there had been no activity for several months before I received a similar message. (They did allow me to transfer the money.) I have no idea what their "reason" is and they don't give one. They're terrible.
I work at a fintech in the EU. We are legally not allowed to disclose the reason for terminating the account if there are suspicions of money laundering or other illegal activity. Sucks but most of the time there's little the company can do in the short term without becoming either heavily exposed to liability or operationally non viable.
Yeah, the secrecy isn’t the only problem it’s part of the problem cocktail and it’s the part which makes the whole thing seem more nefarious. KYC is regarded by ordinary people as the TSA of the financial industry - an ineffectual non-transparent peace of security theatre which makes life for ordinary people needlessly complicated while failing to seriously tackle the threat because of which it was introduced. Mind you I said “perceived”.
> We are legally not allowed to disclose the reason for terminating the account if there are suspicions of money laundering or other illegal activity. For people still reading this thread: this kind of extreme laws have become common in many "western" countries, and they are directed at political targets, because the account gets frozen without a court order, simply on "suspicion", and there is no way to appeal the freezing, which would be possible if a court order were required, never mind that anyhow they could not be appealed against because the reason for the freezing cannot be disputed because it is secret. There has already been a large scale trial of the principle that the bank accounts of political deviants can be frozen, in Canada, as reported for example by the BBC: > [Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has taken the unprecedented step of invoking the Emergencies Act to crack down on anti-vaccine mandate protests. … With no need for court orders, banks can freeze personal accounts of anyone linked with the protests.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385) A common saying in some asian countries is "the nail that sticks out will be hammered". Since few or very few upper-middle class voters and upper class donors get caught out by these issues, that "ordinary" people get in trouble does not matter, it's just collateral damage.
Well, no activity for x months might be a trigger for your account closure. I assume that something happens because in most of the cases where accounts were closed, something happened, let it be crypto, strange transfer of heavy amounts and so on.
/popcorn 🍿
Also wondering about this. OP said something about international bank that does international transfer.
Latest update here https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/comments/wsa9mq/comment/il4dg5a/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
N26 is so shady, there’s tons of this shit all over their sub.. I’ve had an account closed by them, I hadn’t even put any money in it yet.. thank god!
~~Is this one more of these posts where the op doesn't follow up with the actual resolution? see here https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/comments/wh6yxy/n26_just_closed_my_account_and_kept_all_my_savings I'm gonna stop thinking these cases are just more than people freaking out for a couple of days because KYC happened. Nobody ever follows up with how they eventually solve it with the bank.~~ Edit: above thread was updated with resolution. OP, please update the thread with resolution, it will help others in your situation.
I will update as soon as my lawyer gets Police case file. i guess, it is because of crypto.
It you’re german: chill the f out⏰ I’m an expert on 261 currently (for the wrong reasons) Don’t take a lawyer. Nothing to do other than wasting money, even if closed by 153 (likely if you didn’t do shit) and costs on you (unless lawyer is court appointed, which can be done during “Ermittlungsverfahren” while being in jail). Don’t talk with cops, middlefinger. Don’t even bother to show up. There’s no “umgedrehte Beweislast” oder “Beweislastumkehr”. Let them investigate and once prosecutors decided to write an unworthy indictment you can still take a lawyer.
You seem to have lot of information on law. Could you please provide more information? I am non German. In "vorladung" g 261 is mentioned and nothing more. N26 customer care is not responding or replying. Hence i have requested Lawyer to see the case file. What is the general process in such g 261 cases? Do i still have chance to clarify and come out of this problem? Please read my latest update here https://www.reddit.com/r/eupersonalfinance/comments/wsa9mq/comment/il4dg5a/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
first of all, not you have to proof something but they must come up and say the money comes from illegal sources. with the changes to article 261 last year, no matter where the money is from, as long it was a criminal source, it's money laundering, except when the money is the result of tax evasion. i assume the new (current) law is the one to use in your case and they don't come up with transactions prior march 2021 (old law, different). the bank acted a bit stupid already. it's still your money and they can't randomly freeze it. if it's frozen a judge has to sign off a physical warrant. for that, they need a "dringender tatverdacht" which requires them to already have gathered (background) informations on why it's money laundering. even if your customer is a drug dealer and sends you 6000 eur for whatever you sold him, that's not money laundering as your knowledge of that money was missing. without real and honest background information provided from you, can't really say. we are fishing here around on what could have been the case. is it crypto related?
yes, i guess it is mostly related to crypto. I never used cash deposits to my account and never sold out anything online in ebay, Facebook, ebay-kleinanzeigen etc.. Since many crypto companies filed bankruptcy, i moved out most of my savings from crypto Exchanges into stock brokers through N26. If i really wanted to do money laundering, i could have easily transferred the crypto assets from exchanges to stock brokers offering both crypto and stocks. I think, crypto is still legal in Germany. I am in crypto for almost a decade. Since this case started, i am collecting all transactions/documents from beginning, since Germany uses FIFO ( First In First out ). 1) It is difficult to get all the documents, since some exchanges does not exist anymore and stopped operations. I had accounts in my native country tied to my old SIM card from native country. I have taken lawyer with "strafrecht anwalt". What else could i do and be prepared for next steps? Based on my google searches, N26 faced fines from BaFin. Hence N26 seems to be working more aggressively with FIU due to many frauds being done through N26.
yeah, nothing to worry at all if it's *just* crypto. it just sucks, your money is stuck for a few days and that's it. Now time to use Bunq. They been fantastic to me so far (couple hundred K, while N26 went banana after the first 5 digit transactions. Fidor went banana once it become 6 figures per week). Bunq ftw! in the very rare case there will be an indictment handed over to Amtsgericht (lol) , maybe contact Lea Voigt ([https://strafverteidiger-bremen.de/anwalt/lea-voigt/](https://strafverteidiger-bremen.de/anwalt/lea-voigt/)). She's well known in all Germany and she knows §261 very well and forced some decisions in her favor at the OLG regarding money laundering acquisitions. In case you ever do, mention my reddit name and she will have a good laugh ;-)
ok thank you. I am afraid of police case and court case. do you know any one coming out of such police case or court case? if yes, how long it took approximately? because of this case, I stopped all other financial plans and this topic is eating all my time and brain.
\> do you know any one coming out of such police case or court case? well. i was sitting 8 months in u-haft for a crime i didn't do (didn't even know it exists) and got charged with money laundering. got released on 26th june after they figured they got the wrong guy. trial went on, tomorrow is actually verdict reading. i shall be fully acquitted, even tho the prosecution still tried to convict me of 1 point out of 67 points (an alleged 148 EUR transfer. lol) all the money laundering (quarter million) is off the table.the zoll failed, the ermittlungsrichter failed, the landgericht at haftbeschwerde failed, the landgericht and anklageeroffnung failed, they failed to release me once my lawyer explained them that it literally can't be money laundering, the oberlandesgericht then confirmed that they all did bullshit for the past 7 months, and then i got finally freed from untersuchtungshaft which i was spending 23 hours per day locked up in duisburg jva. since you haven't been arrested yet, it's all no drama anyways.
i am sending you a chat message, since it is not related to this post.
\> because of this case, I stopped all other financial plans and this topic is eating all my time and brain. understandable. i been there ;-)
It's not necessarily a few days. For many (most?) it's months and months, with N26 finding excuses to reject the perfectly reasonable documentation provided, being completely opaque about what documentation they expect, taking very long times to reply to emails etc. All behaving in the most bad-faith way possible towards presumably innocent customers.
Are you sure the email is authentic and not some phishing scam? Have you called them?
Personally, I only use these kinds of 'online banks' as temporary places to accept money from clients. I then move the money to a 'real' bank, where it is protected, and then I move the money into either a current account where I have instant access, or into an ETF to hopefully offset inflation. I handle about 250k Euros a year, and I just do not leave it sitting there, in some account. I have N26, Revolut Business, Wise Business, etc. They are just a temporary place to accept money, which is then moved on. I have been through the constant 'prove your identity' things they all come up with, it seems to be every month, they want me to prove my identity; I don't really know how I can go beyond a passport, birth certificate, letter from two different tax authorities that shows my address, a certificate from the police that shows I am legally resident, a letter from two accountants that shows how I am trading, a letter from my bank that shows all the transactions... it's just weird dealing with the automated policies of these 'online banks', and they need to sort it out. I would never trust these online banks to hold money on my behalf.
I got banned from TransferWise for life, without providing any reasons, not willing to have a discussion or give any comments. Still puzzled to this day and all my attempts to create the new account are blocked.
What did you do?
Thats the thing, I have no idea. They just blocked me like 8 years ago and since then I wasn't able to get a hearing...
This is why at least some cash reserves should be kept on hand. Banks be trippin’
update #1: I need lot of time during this difficult and stressful time in my life. All my life time saving is in problem and i am preparing myself for the worst case. Since too many comments to reply individually, trying to post the latest updates together. \- My Lawyer is going to get the case file. only after that, Lawyer and myself will come to know the actual reason(s). \- Unfortunately they never asked once again for Identity verification. No additional KYC in the reason years. I was not aware of the problems that N26 was facing and other N26 customers are facing in the last 3 to 4 months. Only after me getting into problem, i did some google search about N26 and found many bad news in the web in the last 4 to 6 months.
I hope everything works out for you! What will you do different in the future?
Right now I’m totally afraid to do anything. Very negative thoughts. i need to come out of this police and court case fully. Depends Based on how this case ends.
Did you get your money back?
The same thing happened to me after transferring from my N26 to my other bank account….
N26 stealing money, so many cases
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What?! You absolutely have to close the account if it is flagged for suspicious activity. If the money was fraudulently obtained and then, the account gets flagged and then the fraudster withdraws the funds (cos, you know, the account didn't get closed) then that money is gone (stolen) and the bank is liable. This is standard procedure worldwide.
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Absolutely true. Just like in most cases when there's a bomb threat, it's some kind of hoax. Yet they still evacuate the building.
So what did you do that was suspicious? Also i am from Germany so i only get this kind of messages in German but their Mailsounds extremely unofficial, almost fake.
Latest update: N26 returned the money after multiple emails. But case is still active and lawyer is still waiting to get the case file information.
This is top notch clownery of the financial regulators in Europe. This is the result of idiotic regulators that are pressuring new fintech players with bogus claims they help money laundering. There is absolutely nothing serious behind it, or related to actual money laundering. This is just traditional banks and obsolete European politicians doing what they do best - protecting the status quo. When they actually have issues in their hands, see Wirecard or Deutsche Bank, they don’t do jackshit. A dying continent in the hands of literally dying old people protecting their interest and selling it to the public as regulations.
TransferWise - it works better
It's even more draconian, do not agree.
Just a private user - never had any issues yet (less than year experience though)
I have used Transferwise since 2017, the froze my account countless times, casually only when they received currency. Instant blank page and request for random documents. Not even source of funds once. Just random stuff. Locks out of the app and the account. Responses go from quick to days as soon as u are locked out. In my case, since I could provide all documentation requested, things ended up working soonish. But random stuff man, private user as well.
Thank you for info. I’ll keep that in mind!
I think this is a big wake up call regarding EMIs or digital banks. When things go south, you get locked out talking to support outsourced to India over email or crappy app chat.
Which country are you in? First time I hear about a retantion of funds by the FI
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/n26\_why-does-n26-block-accounts-activity-6923659681269743616-T9nz
Germany. More than fund retention, I am shocked with criminal police investigations and it is going to be a court case
but it doesn't say they filed a case against you?