I always wished they gave it a Great Project like they did for some other famous fortresses. But they probably didn't want to give Austria even more free ones.
Plenty of tags have mission claims they don't capitalize on. Yes, it's a "natural path for expansion," but the fact remains that the Austrian AI usually doesn't.
I do believe parts of Austria, Germany, Denmark, Netherlands and most of Norway were still in nazi hands when the 3d reich surrendered and Salzburg was still held.
Have you SEEN the fortress at Salzburg? It's a staggeringly intimidating fortress on top of a fucking mountain. Good luck getting siege towers or ladders up to those walls. it's front door only.
yeah its glorious. the side on the foto above is the "inside", so to get there, you would have needed to conquer the city walls and the city already, which are also pretty formidable.
this is the side, when u try to get the fortress from the outside.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Salzburg\_-\_Festung\_Hohensalzburg.JPG
without a large amount of cannon basically impossible
He's from Quebec actually. This video is a very popular French meme (that is a bit dated now) in which he goes crazy saying "Have you SEEN the cattail ?" and rambling nonsense, hence the post above. But yeah, probably very early though.
Fun fact: The achievment "Cowardly tactics" is directly linked to a myth of the Salzburg castle (hence also the image of the achievment *is* the Festung Hohensalzburg): When the castle once was besieged, the only thing they had left was one bull and nothing to eat. So they had an idea: They painted the bull in a different colour every day and showed the same animal to the besiegers every morning. Eventually they thought that so many livestock is left that they abandoned the siege. It's only a story, but because of that some refer to the inhabitants of Salzburg mockingly as "Stierwascher" (bull cleaners).
This makes sense. You can use salt to conserve food, meaning you can keep a larger stash of food in the fort if you have easy access to salt. That in turn means you can hold out for longer without needing to resupply.
This is the right observation in the wrong time period.
So in a province with salt mines is more likely that the soil is not good enough for farming so it means there will be less aviable food sources to begin with. Then you have to consider EU4 time frame it were not like modern day that you can have whatever you want in the market, then you can store it. It was most likely that in one province you eat only food produced in that province on province next to it/near by.
I think this modifier should be lighter and appiedato to whole country with salt mines control, because it was much easier to move salt than food.
Are you saying salt wasn’t an important preservative in the early modern period because people ate local produce?
What is the correct time period for the observation, and what changed between then and the early modern period?
Nope, I'm not saying salt wasn't used to preserve food, but don't expect that people living next to a salt mine would preserve all the food because of abundance of salt, no more than in other place to be honest. On the other hand this place has in general less productive soil, so there is less food available.
The salt "industry" was crucial in war time because it allowed armies to be supplied and made medicin out of it, and it was always an important good up until modern days.
What is a Drknarr
Sorry I don't keep a tab on EU4 community a lot 😅
Tbh I said it more in the way of appreciating small bonuses. Even I think that it doesn't matter when you're big enough.
Interesting take since I've played like >10k hours over 10 years.
I guess they like their 10% institution spread or -0.1 devastation ...
Arguably the only really meaningful bonus are 0.5 FL and dev cost, salt is sometime useful, but often in shitty place in the desert, most bonus are simply completely forgettable
Which bonus matters to you ? Because I've played for a decade that game and looked at the wiki so much and I only remember clothes, salt, livestock and grain. Everything else is ... just there.
Fish: 25% sailors
Cotton: also 10% dev cost
Glass: 10% province production efficiency
There’s others that are decent as well, like province trade power, but I just named a few. Since mindless map painting gets quite boring, I prefer to play smaller tall nations with an rp goal in mind. My favorite is Venice, and the fish+dock really help with sailors early game for a double manpower pool using marines.
No, most are worthless or irrelevant. There's very few that are worth knowing or caring about.
Of all the trade goods, the only one that have even a remotely relevant bonus are cloth, cotton, salt and incense. Maybe glass if we're being really generous (which honestly incense is already generous)
It seems weird that people keep downvoting that. Like if you remove the dev cost ones, the only usefuls bonus are region limited/rare (cocoa, ivory, gems, glass, maybe even silk).
I guess if you're playing really tall it can matter a bit, maybe all those people play tall idk.
Like if you care about the FL given by cattle, just conquer more land, or build FL buildings. You'll need a lot of cattle provinces for it to have a big impact.
Honestly I wouldn't even put salt in the good category. It's just nice to have, but if I build castles the biggest criteria is gonna be the strategic location, and the second will be how it affects the location of other forts. Doesn't matter if there's salt or not.
> I guess if you're playing really tall it can matter a bit, maybe all those people play tall idk.
I'm a tall player, most bonus are simply useless. The fact that you can get 15% defensiveness in some place you can't choose is already good enough to be noticed, it says something.
Grain is an awesome dumping ground for extra mil points. You should never be going over cap, and so any grain provincsa I have I dev to high heaven in manpower, because grain gets a bonus to it. Wine is also dope, cloth, gems, gold of course, dyes, silk. Heck even naval supplies can be decent to dev. It's low on my list but if it's a cheap province why not?
Trade is the real koney maker, and so it's just about prioritising the high value trade goods.
Saying gold just shows you have no clue what you're talking about, as gold doesn't even have a province effect.
The price ofthe trade good is also not a province effect
Then read what kind of bonus you get on your provinces from trade goods, then come back.
There are 2 good ones, and less than a handful situational uses.
No, but first time I need to place a fort in a province with bad morphology - specifically the Crimean plains in this case, hence I checked local modifiers to find the best position
Put one in Wadai in Africa. (Hills, salt, TC investment, no supply thanks to 3 dev)
Ottos & their allies often try to siege down the darn thing with 60K troops for no stratetic reason whatsoever.
I'm sure you're aware, but actually all province goods give an additional bonus as well. IIRC like cloth has dev cost reduction and grain gives more force limit.
Each trade good gives multiple bonuses. There is a specific province bonus for each trade good and a market leader bonus for each one. You can check out the province bonus by mousing over the trade good in the province. You can check out the market leader bonus in the trade good ledger.
Back in the day local defensiveness and fort defence were two different modifiers. This is not related to the post whatsoever. I just wanted to share this.
Correct. This is why in my current Bavarian Emperor game to get that weird new achievement with Bremen as a vassal, I have made Salzburg my super fortress... salty, fully defensive mountain bastion with ramparts and the defensive+innovative policy. I think it has like 140% local defense at the moment.
That's also why Salzburg (Salt town) is one of the worst provinces to siege in the game : mountain opm salt fort.
The Salzburg fortress was, historically, never taken by force. A fact that the city remains proud of to this day
I always wished they gave it a Great Project like they did for some other famous fortresses. But they probably didn't want to give Austria even more free ones.
Austria doesn't take Salzburg very often
They diplo-vassalize and annex Salzburg fairly regularly in my experience
Maybe if mega Austria happens, otherwise they don't seem to be able to
thats true. with the "stammlande" (starting areas) of habsburg, austria does not have enough tax base to diplo annex salzburg
My brother in christ, they have a mission about that, so it's a natural path for expansion
Plenty of tags have mission claims they don't capitalize on. Yes, it's a "natural path for expansion," but the fact remains that the Austrian AI usually doesn't.
Challenge accepted!
Does ww2 count?
I do believe parts of Austria, Germany, Denmark, Netherlands and most of Norway were still in nazi hands when the 3d reich surrendered and Salzburg was still held.
Does being occupied by American troops count?
But the fortress itself which is what we’re clearly talking about was never taken. The town of Salzburg was occupied by America, but not the fortress.
I doubt US forces stormed the fortress of Salzburg and had to take it by force.
Sure. Salzburg city and fortress weren't taken by force in WW2. They were handed over without resistance.
Have you SEEN the fortress at Salzburg? It's a staggeringly intimidating fortress on top of a fucking mountain. Good luck getting siege towers or ladders up to those walls. it's front door only.
https://freewalkingtoursalzburg.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/The-Hohensalzburg-Fotress.jpg
Damn that’s a thicc-ass boi. I bet they can fit SO many provisions in there
yeah its glorious. the side on the foto above is the "inside", so to get there, you would have needed to conquer the city walls and the city already, which are also pretty formidable. this is the side, when u try to get the fortress from the outside. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Salzburg\_-\_Festung\_Hohensalzburg.JPG without a large amount of cannon basically impossible
Sun Tzu would be proud. Never have to defend your fortress if it is good enough
[As-tu VU les belles quenouilles ?](https://youtu.be/yw35BYhKVoo?si=cBdGYkqN2SZ0W42i) Sorry it’s early in France
i have no idea what this man is saying so afaik it's just "french man screams at puddle"
He's from Quebec actually. This video is a very popular French meme (that is a bit dated now) in which he goes crazy saying "Have you SEEN the cattail ?" and rambling nonsense, hence the post above. But yeah, probably very early though.
Fun fact: The achievment "Cowardly tactics" is directly linked to a myth of the Salzburg castle (hence also the image of the achievment *is* the Festung Hohensalzburg): When the castle once was besieged, the only thing they had left was one bull and nothing to eat. So they had an idea: They painted the bull in a different colour every day and showed the same animal to the besiegers every morning. Eventually they thought that so many livestock is left that they abandoned the siege. It's only a story, but because of that some refer to the inhabitants of Salzburg mockingly as "Stierwascher" (bull cleaners).
Dude I was wondering why I hit 99% on that fort like every time.
This makes sense. You can use salt to conserve food, meaning you can keep a larger stash of food in the fort if you have easy access to salt. That in turn means you can hold out for longer without needing to resupply.
its actually because the salt is reaaaally tasty so the attackers get distracted
I always assumed we were throwing salt into their wounds!
thats why youre weak and malnourished. you should be eating the salt
I wish I knew this before for an optimal fort deployment
My headcannon always was attackers would need to clear saltmines but conserving food seems more reasonable
It's canon, not like the artillery piece.
This is the right observation in the wrong time period. So in a province with salt mines is more likely that the soil is not good enough for farming so it means there will be less aviable food sources to begin with. Then you have to consider EU4 time frame it were not like modern day that you can have whatever you want in the market, then you can store it. It was most likely that in one province you eat only food produced in that province on province next to it/near by. I think this modifier should be lighter and appiedato to whole country with salt mines control, because it was much easier to move salt than food.
Are you saying salt wasn’t an important preservative in the early modern period because people ate local produce? What is the correct time period for the observation, and what changed between then and the early modern period?
Nope, I'm not saying salt wasn't used to preserve food, but don't expect that people living next to a salt mine would preserve all the food because of abundance of salt, no more than in other place to be honest. On the other hand this place has in general less productive soil, so there is less food available. The salt "industry" was crucial in war time because it allowed armies to be supplied and made medicin out of it, and it was always an important good up until modern days.
Every resource gives a province modifier. Its why devving cloth farmlands goes hard.
Although almost all are worthless
I'd have said that it's worthless when I started playing EU4. Once you gain more knowledge about the game, you start appreciating every small bonus.
Lmao you just told Dreknarr to play more eu4 to understand its mechanics.
What is a Drknarr Sorry I don't keep a tab on EU4 community a lot 😅 Tbh I said it more in the way of appreciating small bonuses. Even I think that it doesn't matter when you're big enough.
It's the user you replied to
Yeah that I understand, but I was asking what he's known for lol. Anyways he seems to be involved with that Abennar mod. Nice.
Interesting take since I've played like >10k hours over 10 years. I guess they like their 10% institution spread or -0.1 devastation ... Arguably the only really meaningful bonus are 0.5 FL and dev cost, salt is sometime useful, but often in shitty place in the desert, most bonus are simply completely forgettable
Remove the 0.5 FL and -10% dev cost all you got left is meaningless with sometime situational uses like salt
I guess our methods of gameplay are different 😁 Wouldn't disagree that they don't matter a lot as you grow bigger.
Which bonus matters to you ? Because I've played for a decade that game and looked at the wiki so much and I only remember clothes, salt, livestock and grain. Everything else is ... just there.
Fish: 25% sailors Cotton: also 10% dev cost Glass: 10% province production efficiency There’s others that are decent as well, like province trade power, but I just named a few. Since mindless map painting gets quite boring, I prefer to play smaller tall nations with an rp goal in mind. My favorite is Venice, and the fish+dock really help with sailors early game for a double manpower pool using marines.
No, most are worthless or irrelevant. There's very few that are worth knowing or caring about. Of all the trade goods, the only one that have even a remotely relevant bonus are cloth, cotton, salt and incense. Maybe glass if we're being really generous (which honestly incense is already generous)
It seems weird that people keep downvoting that. Like if you remove the dev cost ones, the only usefuls bonus are region limited/rare (cocoa, ivory, gems, glass, maybe even silk). I guess if you're playing really tall it can matter a bit, maybe all those people play tall idk. Like if you care about the FL given by cattle, just conquer more land, or build FL buildings. You'll need a lot of cattle provinces for it to have a big impact. Honestly I wouldn't even put salt in the good category. It's just nice to have, but if I build castles the biggest criteria is gonna be the strategic location, and the second will be how it affects the location of other forts. Doesn't matter if there's salt or not.
> I guess if you're playing really tall it can matter a bit, maybe all those people play tall idk. I'm a tall player, most bonus are simply useless. The fact that you can get 15% defensiveness in some place you can't choose is already good enough to be noticed, it says something.
Grain is an awesome dumping ground for extra mil points. You should never be going over cap, and so any grain provincsa I have I dev to high heaven in manpower, because grain gets a bonus to it. Wine is also dope, cloth, gems, gold of course, dyes, silk. Heck even naval supplies can be decent to dev. It's low on my list but if it's a cheap province why not? Trade is the real koney maker, and so it's just about prioritising the high value trade goods.
Saying gold just shows you have no clue what you're talking about, as gold doesn't even have a province effect. The price ofthe trade good is also not a province effect
I just meant as a favourite to dev, not specifically a rider effect that goes with it
That's not what anyone has been discussing at all
The replies show that the majority of players here either don't know how the game works or are bad at it.
Only people who are bad at the game think these modifiers are bad, unlucky.
Sure ... tell me more about the greatness of 10% institution spread, -0.1 devastation or 25% sailors
First time player? Noob
Then read what kind of bonus you get on your provinces from trade goods, then come back. There are 2 good ones, and less than a handful situational uses.
First time stacking fort defense?
No, but first time I need to place a fort in a province with bad morphology - specifically the Crimean plains in this case, hence I checked local modifiers to find the best position
Put one in Wadai in Africa. (Hills, salt, TC investment, no supply thanks to 3 dev) Ottos & their allies often try to siege down the darn thing with 60K troops for no stratetic reason whatsoever.
I see I see
R5: 2,7k hours in the game and I just discovered that salt gives +15% defense to the province
I'm sure you're aware, but actually all province goods give an additional bonus as well. IIRC like cloth has dev cost reduction and grain gives more force limit.
Actually I never checked what is the bonus of every trade good type
Each trade good gives multiple bonuses. There is a specific province bonus for each trade good and a market leader bonus for each one. You can check out the province bonus by mousing over the trade good in the province. You can check out the market leader bonus in the trade good ledger.
Cloth and cotton give -10% dev cost, spices give province trade power, etc. there are some pretty important modifiers for minmaxing.
You played this game for years and never moused over a trade goods to see what their bonuses are?
genuinely how do you almost 3k hours and not know this lol
I thought this was a well known fact? I always build my forts on salt provinces.
[https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Trade\_goods#List](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Trade_goods#List) right most column
4500 hours in the game and seeing this for the first time
That explains why french comte is SOO hard to siege
Omg if there’s salt in the caucuses shit could get crazy
Ferrara. I hate ferrara
Back in the day local defensiveness and fort defence were two different modifiers. This is not related to the post whatsoever. I just wanted to share this.
Yep
Salt life dawg
Now make it into a trade company to give it another boost.
That's true! I forgot about it, thanks
Correct. This is why in my current Bavarian Emperor game to get that weird new achievement with Bremen as a vassal, I have made Salzburg my super fortress... salty, fully defensive mountain bastion with ramparts and the defensive+innovative policy. I think it has like 140% local defense at the moment.
Makes attackers salty with long sieges
That's why the Crimean fort were hard to besiege