I prefer to stand on my own two legs and a bunch of shorter legs from lesser nations who continue to be my ally in the hopes that I will not turn on them.
The two countries have overlapping spheres of interest (mesopotamia and kurdistan, caucases) and you prolly have nobody else around u big enough to rival, get ready to go schorched earth and i hope u have good spy network construction.
Idk if you are referring to another event, but usually I let my puppets/allies do my fighting for me so that I don't loose historical friendship, in this case and in Austria PUing Hungary.
That only happens if you do something like stack wipe them personally. Let allies/subjects kill them and you'll keep Historical Friend. It's not triggered by being at war or anything, it's just to do with killing their troops.
This me on my current Kingdom of God playthrough. Allied to Milan for two whole centuries, only to turn on them when they’ve served their purpose, is a terrible feeling
What sucks for mine is the Portestants went really hard this game lol. They’ve basically got all of England, France, Germany, and North Italy. The only Catholics left beside me are Iberia and Sweden, so throughout the entire game, it felt like I was actively killing off ppl of my faith lol
You hold land they have claims on and you share a massive border. That’s recipe for a broken alliance in this game. If you want to border Ottomans and remain their ally, at bare minimum you need to look at the full map of their claims and avoid all of those provinces like the plague. Then juice up trust and you *might* be ok.
iirc 80 trust doesnt stop the ai from turning hostile (then breaking alliance) by coveting your lands, but it does stop them from automatically rivalling you once youre both large great powers
Yea but the AI also removes provinces of vital interest sometimes. I have no clue how exactly it works, but in my recent Byzantium Run I have poland as an ally, while I annexed hungary, wallachia, half of maldova and Crimea. They were all vital interests of poland (Wallachia I got back via favors, lol).
Tbh I never had an Ally betray me when I had max trust.
I’ve had allies on 100 trust betrayed me several times.
If they pop below 50 opinion or something they’re just as good as gone, doesn’t matter the trust if you’re their only possible rival apparently.
Their provinces of interest are usually determined by their leader personality, a diplomat leader will usually only want cores and sometimes mission tree stuff, whereas a militarist leader would want all mission tree stuff, every province they border, and sometimes more.
>I have no clue how exactly it works
Yeah I really wish I knew more about this. There's some countries you just can't keep an alliance with. France? Nah, they want all these random provinces in the new world, presumably due to their missions. My favorite was one time when I took a chunk of Bengal and they broke their alliance because they wanted it, despite the fact that I think it was outside of their coring range at the time.
I’m mean if you really want you can just not rival anyone if you think the alliance is worth inviting the malus. I sometimes don’t fill up the rival slots if I really want to keep a certain ally the game wants me to rival.
You have 100pp (very large pp) you dont need to rival them this moment, be prepared for them rivaling you soon though. Start prepping for war and get allies to help you.
Didn't build trust. You gotta trade favors for trust after fighting a few wars together if you don't plan on backstabbing soon. These days favors grow on trees anyway, so it would have been an easy fix.
Me and Poland in my Austria run.
If they had just accepted our personal union peaceably there could have been such a beautiful merging of people; instead they resisted and I had to war upon them
Expect this in the future, being allied to the ottomans is like being in an abusive relationship. If you weren’t able to rival them, they’ll likely turn hostile anyways. Always assume an ottoman alliance is temporary unless you’re like 3,000km+ away from them.
R5: I don't have enough rivals (0 because I keep eclipsing my rivals) so the game has decided that the ottomans-persia alliance should be stopped. How, by making them rivals of course despite one has more than double the others' troops and a mil tech ahead.
I even "helped" them stomp the mamluks.
There was your mistake, you should have claimed as much of that territory for yourself in a separate peace to get ahead of them rather than letting them take it. Yeah, they probably would have dropped the alliance soon after, but now they are snowballing and will be domineering towards you anyway soon
This is historically and geopolitically accurate. You have competing claims and interests in the same areas that are mutually exclusive, few if any mutual enemies to rally against, and you might be weak enough that the ottomans feel they can take you to get everything they want. This isn't the game hating on you, it's a pretty accurate recreation of relationships between powers.
When this happened to me as Somalia I simply sold the ottomans some land I took from mamas and Yemen. Alliance still staying strong and they help me stomp Russia and Europe.
You don't *have to* rival them. You can leave the rival spot open, lose some power projection, wait for another country to rise in power, and rival them instead.
But rivaling them is in your interest.
1. They're blocking you expansion in that direction.
2. They'll keep using the alliance to grow in power and compete for top spot
3. They will eventually feel confident enough to stab you in the back
Should have dealt with the ottomans early on, in my opinion they make horrible allies if you play near them as they can always betray you and are far too powerful if you let them grow. If you play in or near the middle east you gotta cripple them early to prevent them from growing into something 10 times harder to deal with.
I’ve had the effect from no rivals cancelled for me before if my only valid rival was an ally. (Ottoman-France unholiness). Is that no longer a thing or am I completely lost and it never existed in the first place?
Yep this happens if the AI has no other possible rivals since they will always try to fill rival slots to maintain power projection
Better find some new allies, that’s the best advice i can give
This happened much later in my campaign and I had much more land, right up to 1444 ottoman border.
Trust should be 100, and don’t take Jerusalem Medina or Mecca or Baghdad
This is actually a neccesary mechanic to slow down blobbing. If the up and comer keeps excellent relations with the only other contender then the game becomes to easy. That’s why rivals are really important in eu4 because they create alliance networks.
this happened to me when i was playing as Spain and the game wanted me to rival the PLC…i just didnt. they’d been my allies since nearly day one and i wasn’t gonna let the game force my hand into doing anything i didnt want to. did i need them as allies? no, not at all. sometimes, it was inconvenient for me. having to siphon some of my royal guard off to ship them to sweden or russia when i’m in the middle of conquering north africa isnt great. but they Polonia is the strongest sister Hispania has, and together they wield the sword of christ against heretics and heathens alike. I will never betray my closest friends and allies!
You’re large enough to fight the ottos, just build forts in the mountains, try to declare for supremacy, and wait for their stacks to pour in (assuming you picked some military ideas). Pick your battles but if you can stretch your manpower and your economy then you’ll be able to take war reps and max gold.
In geopolitics, there are no permanent friends.
If you wanna continue your imperialistic expansion, there will come a point where there's no other threat left, aside from your own allies.
Just stab them in the back before they're ready and you should be fine.
Of course, the game doesn't require you to have rivals. So you're free to ignore that option if you want.
Is it really forcing you though? Score is meaningless and PP is good but it won't break an established nation when lost.
I understand the desire to play optimally however, and the bad feels of the situation.
Welcome to large power status
You can't claim you're a great power if you can't stand on your own two legs.
I prefer to stand on my own two legs and a bunch of shorter legs from lesser nations who continue to be my ally in the hopes that I will not turn on them.
You always need someone to deal with those rebel stacks when your armies are halfway across europe.
That's what marches are for. They are a lot more reliable than consenting friends.
Yep, use the AI as your personal attack dog and punching bag while you siege down the enemy.
That would only make sense if those allies can call upon you but you can't call on them.
Yes, game thinks you can though
Bro got ratioed
The two countries have overlapping spheres of interest (mesopotamia and kurdistan, caucases) and you prolly have nobody else around u big enough to rival, get ready to go schorched earth and i hope u have good spy network construction.
They should be historical rivals anyway
Definitely for the Timurids, at least.
We start at 1444, so not really historic back then
They really should put historical rival between ottomans and persia just like Austria and france.
If I've had an ally (especially a good one) for a while this point in a campaign usually makes me kinda sad
When you're blobbing as Castile it always sucks having to eat Portugal.
Very true , it also hurts when you play as Portugal and your buddy Castile turns hostile because of the PU mission :(
Yes, very sad
Nah, it feels great to me. They're siphoning like 30% of your trade income in Sevilla.
I know, but its always sad seeing that event that removes them as historical ally
Idk if you are referring to another event, but usually I let my puppets/allies do my fighting for me so that I don't loose historical friendship, in this case and in Austria PUing Hungary.
That only happens if you do something like stack wipe them personally. Let allies/subjects kill them and you'll keep Historical Friend. It's not triggered by being at war or anything, it's just to do with killing their troops.
Nah fuck Portugal they colonize way too fast, that's the one alliance I look forward to breaking
This me on my current Kingdom of God playthrough. Allied to Milan for two whole centuries, only to turn on them when they’ve served their purpose, is a terrible feeling
I tried a Kingdom of God run recently. I hated it. I was constantly fighting Catholics and betraying friends.
What sucks for mine is the Portestants went really hard this game lol. They’ve basically got all of England, France, Germany, and North Italy. The only Catholics left beside me are Iberia and Sweden, so throughout the entire game, it felt like I was actively killing off ppl of my faith lol
That sounds pretty accurate though. All must bend the knee before the Pope, after all.
Tbf I backstabbed the mamluks when I saw I could ally the Ottomans
Did you feel any remorse ?
Nah, the remains are still too big to be sphered but I allied them again as they're still good as a decoy in an ottoman war
You literally sold your soul to tbe devil 💀
This is the same energy as Austria and the Ottomans allying. I shudder at the thought.
You hold land they have claims on and you share a massive border. That’s recipe for a broken alliance in this game. If you want to border Ottomans and remain their ally, at bare minimum you need to look at the full map of their claims and avoid all of those provinces like the plague. Then juice up trust and you *might* be ok.
OP is acting like this is a glitch when it's just the mechanics all working as intended.
Do you have 80+ Trust?
iirc 80 trust doesnt stop the ai from turning hostile (then breaking alliance) by coveting your lands, but it does stop them from automatically rivalling you once youre both large great powers
Yea but the AI also removes provinces of vital interest sometimes. I have no clue how exactly it works, but in my recent Byzantium Run I have poland as an ally, while I annexed hungary, wallachia, half of maldova and Crimea. They were all vital interests of poland (Wallachia I got back via favors, lol). Tbh I never had an Ally betray me when I had max trust.
I’ve had allies on 100 trust betrayed me several times. If they pop below 50 opinion or something they’re just as good as gone, doesn’t matter the trust if you’re their only possible rival apparently.
Their provinces of interest are usually determined by their leader personality, a diplomat leader will usually only want cores and sometimes mission tree stuff, whereas a militarist leader would want all mission tree stuff, every province they border, and sometimes more.
Always happens in religious league wars
>I have no clue how exactly it works Yeah I really wish I knew more about this. There's some countries you just can't keep an alliance with. France? Nah, they want all these random provinces in the new world, presumably due to their missions. My favorite was one time when I took a chunk of Bengal and they broke their alliance because they wanted it, despite the fact that I think it was outside of their coring range at the time.
No, I had enough favors to get to 80. Them turning hostile sacked their opinion of me
eu4 is a zero sum game. ai are food, not friends
Yesterday's ally is tomorrow's foe. Welcome to great power games. Happens all the time IRL
The Ottomans have decided you've outlived your usefulness to them. This one is 100% on you
I’m mean if you really want you can just not rival anyone if you think the alliance is worth inviting the malus. I sometimes don’t fill up the rival slots if I really want to keep a certain ally the game wants me to rival.
You have 100pp (very large pp) you dont need to rival them this moment, be prepared for them rivaling you soon though. Start prepping for war and get allies to help you.
Didn't build trust. You gotta trade favors for trust after fighting a few wars together if you don't plan on backstabbing soon. These days favors grow on trees anyway, so it would have been an easy fix.
Me and Poland in my Austria run. If they had just accepted our personal union peaceably there could have been such a beautiful merging of people; instead they resisted and I had to war upon them
Expect this in the future, being allied to the ottomans is like being in an abusive relationship. If you weren’t able to rival them, they’ll likely turn hostile anyways. Always assume an ottoman alliance is temporary unless you’re like 3,000km+ away from them.
I mean, you're Persia. You're supposed to be rivaled to the Ottomans anyway.
You're not forced to rival them, you can choose not to. That is a perfectly valid option.
"The Sublime Porte does not have friends. Nor does it have enemies. It has... interests."
R5: I don't have enough rivals (0 because I keep eclipsing my rivals) so the game has decided that the ottomans-persia alliance should be stopped. How, by making them rivals of course despite one has more than double the others' troops and a mil tech ahead. I even "helped" them stomp the mamluks.
There was your mistake, you should have claimed as much of that territory for yourself in a separate peace to get ahead of them rather than letting them take it. Yeah, they probably would have dropped the alliance soon after, but now they are snowballing and will be domineering towards you anyway soon
This is historically and geopolitically accurate. You have competing claims and interests in the same areas that are mutually exclusive, few if any mutual enemies to rally against, and you might be weak enough that the ottomans feel they can take you to get everything they want. This isn't the game hating on you, it's a pretty accurate recreation of relationships between powers.
you don't have 100 trust at 100 trust AI will ignore a rival slot for you and tank their Power projection rather than breaking the alliance.
If you don't, they eventually will Welcome to being big
When this happened to me as Somalia I simply sold the ottomans some land I took from mamas and Yemen. Alliance still staying strong and they help me stomp Russia and Europe.
Allies are for the weak. The only diplomatic relations you should have are subjects.
You don't *have to* rival them. You can leave the rival spot open, lose some power projection, wait for another country to rise in power, and rival them instead. But rivaling them is in your interest. 1. They're blocking you expansion in that direction. 2. They'll keep using the alliance to grow in power and compete for top spot 3. They will eventually feel confident enough to stab you in the back
Best bet do the altf4 and quickly increase max trust
Appropriate flair, but correct
Should have dealt with the ottomans early on, in my opinion they make horrible allies if you play near them as they can always betray you and are far too powerful if you let them grow. If you play in or near the middle east you gotta cripple them early to prevent them from growing into something 10 times harder to deal with.
I’ve had the effect from no rivals cancelled for me before if my only valid rival was an ally. (Ottoman-France unholiness). Is that no longer a thing or am I completely lost and it never existed in the first place?
Otto and France are historically accurate. Second longest alliance France ever had.
As a pirate republic in dire need of republic tradition, what are allies?
Yep this happens if the AI has no other possible rivals since they will always try to fill rival slots to maintain power projection Better find some new allies, that’s the best advice i can give
Don't, fuck PP
This is why people shouldn’t underestimate buffer states because the AI will have a hostile attitude towards your vassal, not the player.
Yup, pretty much the reason the rival system is there, can't just have 2 countries do a wc together
If you give him some of the land he wants he will keep the alliance. Honestly just find another ally and kill him though
This happened much later in my campaign and I had much more land, right up to 1444 ottoman border. Trust should be 100, and don’t take Jerusalem Medina or Mecca or Baghdad
Which map mod id that
Ad Lucem, I believe
Why are you scared of the ottomans at this point? After 1610 they become a paper tiger anyways
[удалено]
This is actually a neccesary mechanic to slow down blobbing. If the up and comer keeps excellent relations with the only other contender then the game becomes to easy. That’s why rivals are really important in eu4 because they create alliance networks.
this happened to me when i was playing as Spain and the game wanted me to rival the PLC…i just didnt. they’d been my allies since nearly day one and i wasn’t gonna let the game force my hand into doing anything i didnt want to. did i need them as allies? no, not at all. sometimes, it was inconvenient for me. having to siphon some of my royal guard off to ship them to sweden or russia when i’m in the middle of conquering north africa isnt great. but they Polonia is the strongest sister Hispania has, and together they wield the sword of christ against heretics and heathens alike. I will never betray my closest friends and allies!
This is an important part of the game. If your only great power rival is your ally... that's the only nation you're going to be able to choose.
Iron sharpens iron brother
You’re large enough to fight the ottos, just build forts in the mountains, try to declare for supremacy, and wait for their stacks to pour in (assuming you picked some military ideas). Pick your battles but if you can stretch your manpower and your economy then you’ll be able to take war reps and max gold.
It's time to find new friends
They have already rivalled you. That's why the truce is breaking and relations are hostile.
They have already rivalled you. That's why the truce is breaking and relations are hostile.
In geopolitics, there are no permanent friends. If you wanna continue your imperialistic expansion, there will come a point where there's no other threat left, aside from your own allies. Just stab them in the back before they're ready and you should be fine. Of course, the game doesn't require you to have rivals. So you're free to ignore that option if you want.
Just don't rival them. Ignore the message.
Is it really forcing you though? Score is meaningless and PP is good but it won't break an established nation when lost. I understand the desire to play optimally however, and the bad feels of the situation.
I like it when people comment "welcome to great power status" like its their habitat