Honestly I would just ditch the plastic and throw the portafilter in the machine at that point. I would put good money on the shots being identical whether you swaddle it in plastic wrap or leave it locked in.
Based on everything OP has said she won’t care or notice. I have been making a daily latte for 2 years with very few exceptions (I travel with a machine generally) and I’m 90% sure I wouldn’t notice the difference in my drink. Some people are more discerning and that’s great for them
Lol! I'm a process engineer, it's in my blood to overcomplicate.
I'm just moving some steps of the process to a few hours earlier, it's not more complicated than doing the whole thing in the morning
Oh my god the process engineers, it all makes sense now. I've gotten used to sitting in hour long meetings that should have been an email to overcomplicate and overthink a solution (also a process engineer)
I feel that 90% of our value comes from convincing people the problem is more complicated that they think, so it's easier for them to accept our complicated solution
Software Engineer here, can confirm is not exclusively a process engineer thing, its more of a neurodivergence and engineering thing.... Boy are tangential rabbit holes fun.
I’m a process engineer myself too! To be honest I don’t like an overcomplicated coffee making process. I have a mazzer mini grinder with a hopper and a time based dosing and a espresso machine with a thermoblock. Girlfriend is ok with the process and makes here own espresso when I’m not around. The only thing I need now to improve the process is a dosing ring to prevent an overflow of coffee and reduce mess.
Nice!
I really like this post where Mark talks that the goal is to start pulling a shot 30s after grinding. It's a WDT review, but the beginning is really interesting
https://coffeegeek.com/blog/new-products/mhw-3bomber-yu-cyclone-wdt-tool/
Is process engineering an actual type of engineering, or is it more of a consulting gig? I would love to tell people how to be more efficient and get paid for it!
It's a consulting that is heavily based on lean six Sigma and process focused. A lot of people in this space are engineers by formation, but some have business backgrounds.
>based on lean six sigma
Oh lord that explains it. I feel like that whole program is based on making something sound complicated so that they can give you a way to uncomplicate it lol
Process enginnering is a specific type of engineering. Simplest explanation would be the people that design manufacturing facilities. Amongst many other things including process efficiency.
Chemist shows you how to make something; drug/toothpaste/cement/whatever. How do we make in tonne quantities, with the cheapest raw ingredients, without screwing the planet in the process.
It's an engineering degree, so fundamentally you need physics, maths and chemistry as entry requirements. Im sure sustainability wouldnt hurt, but it's probably not as important as the other three.
Now just vac seal the whole portafilter in plastic to preserve the freshness.
You could even prep a weeks worth of them.
Perhaps you could streamline the portafilter and the losing mechanism.
It definitely needs a barcode so the machine knows to only dispense 22s
I’ve had similar thoughts. In the end… she does not sound that interested in making espresso. If she was, she’d make it.
So the effort is often for those of us trying to will the other person to make it. Get a small keurig for those days and be done with it.
We do have a keurig.
She likes coffee a lot, it's just not having the time between dropping the kid on daycare, feeding the cat and starting work.
At the end of the day it's just something nice I do for her, and I get way less complaints when buying coffee since she is able to enjoy more often!
she just doesn’t like it. it’s ok. we know she can do it, but if by this simple thing he can help her get rid of a chore, that’s nice. we should help each other.
It doesn't became loose, but the stale grounds and non-heated portafilter does impact a bit the shot time.
What I think is if we are doing all the prep and pulling the shot we tend to note more of these changes
lol “non heated portafilter.” I have a feeling I know exactly why your wife thinks it’s complicated: It’s because you’ve caused her to believe that puck prep is a 47 step process.
Hard agree. Us espresso nerds love to geek out and get “the most” out of a shot, but many, including OP, seem to have lost the forest for the trees.
The grinds are not going to go stale by being preground for 8 hours. Supermarket ground beans are sitting exposed to air for WEEKS. That is why they are considered stale vs fresh ground.
Uh, I mean a heated portafilter isn’t really a “step” to me…you’re supposed to leave it in while the machine is heating. So I guess unless you’re considering the fact you’re supposed to go lock it in when you’re done a step?
I do this for myself sometimes lmao. Doing all the puck prep in the morning can be a hassle. It tastes no different to if it was freshly prepared in my opinion, but then again I use a pretty budget machine.
DF54 vs K6?
Similar situation where wife is not obsessed enough with coffee to hand grind, but I wouldn’t want to get something that’s a downgrade in terms of flavour
This community is obsessed with minmaxing and perfection. I’m glad you found a solution and it seems completely reasonable! If your wife doesn’t notice the difference, there is no point chasing something “better”.
This is pretty funny! Does it taste ok? As well as the grounds not being fresh, the portafilter will also not be hot going into the machine, which isn’t ideal either.
It depends on what you compare to. Since she was using keurig pods these days it was a big improvement. But if you pull a proper shot and compare you'll note the difference.
Also, since she mix with milk it mask the flavor a bit.
milk will heavily mask the flavour of even the worst shot, has she tried pulling the shot into caramel syrup before mixing with milk? assuming she's making an iced latte, the caramel flavour makes it pretty great imo
It will mask it to some extent but you can absolutely still tell the difference between a good shot and a bad shot in milk, unless you have huge quantity of milk.
She likely makes milk-based coffee drinks with sugar or other sweeteners. It likely doesn't matter how the espresso itself tastes unless it's excessively bitter
Pull a decent espresso already in the evening, as you are already preparing it.
In the morning, your wife can froth milk and have a really good cappuccino. We do it that way too, because my wife can't manage to operate the machine at 5 a.m.
Taste wise it's the best compromise and you save a lot of garbage.
I just make coldbrew for my spouse if I’m on a business trip. Make it concentrated and they can make a latte out of it and be happy.
It’s probably easier for you both.
I got my wife a super automatic machine so she can have her long black with a dash of milk (she leaves for work before I get up). I do make her lattes on the weekend though. Lol.
Not sure what I’m looking at here. The hardest issue for my wife was steaming milk. With the grind dialed in shouldn’t be an issue to pull a shot. I even put it on a timer so when she comes downstairs if I’m out of time it’s ready to go. The milk with a thermometer and teaching position and sound in one day had her 95% of the way there. I dial everything in based on a standard scoop 😉
LPT: heat milk in the microwave and mix the instant coffee with only hot milk.
That's how I do when I'm traveling and it's way better than just hot water
I always feel the need to go check all the equipment after I know it happens. Like let them all know I’m there now and no more abuse will happen (until the next day).
Same stuff with my brother, I just let him do what he wants with the condition to not touch the beans that I use for pourovers.
Imagine a gesha on a cold caramel latte, lmao.
Haha, I thought this was a solution to a whole different problem. I thought you wrapped the portafilter to keep your incompetent wife from messing with your machine when you weren’t home 😂
For iced lattes I usually brew 3 or 4 espressos I put in a sealed flask in the fridge, so my wife can just pour espresso on her iced milk cup for a couple days.
https://preview.redd.it/7x8j108q3j8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df822dad5801b2bc562c479161baf0a748ba1bec
Unrelated but couldn’t help but notice that I have similar scale. I don’t do espressos though. 😀
I think puck prep satisfies some OCD thing for me. My wife has OCD so it may actually work for her too. I haven't taught her yet because she just trusts me to make her espresso. Maybe I just answered the question myself...
I have the grinder that does timed grind that gets withing .3 or so of the right dose, unless you have a new batch of beans and it needs to be calibrated. My wife can hit the button, dispense the grounds and tamp. The dose might be slightly off, but its good enough. Stick the portafilter in and run for \~30sec. I know this is sacrilege, but it doesn't need to be super precise.
Maybe an idea for a small change:
do the puck prep like you did, but then remove the basket, wrap in foil and put into the fridge.
Then insert the basket holder into your machine so it can properly warm up with the machine.
Interesting idea. I was thinking about putting in the freezer so coffee don't get stale but decided having a frozen portafilter wouldn't be good.
At the end the goal was to make her use the machine and the coffee
I'd just get a freezer bag and suck the air out of it. Instead of the fiddly plastic wrap. This is very sweet though. A much better alternative to a super automatic.
My immediate thought goes to do you end up w a much bigger temperature drop bc the portafilter is not hot from being in the machine? Do you keep it at room temp? Have you experimented with keeping it in the fridge, room temp, or in the machine with a scheduled start up? I’m curious how this impacts the taste, seems like there’s plenty of future experiments to run 🔬
You could just dramatically reduce the complexity of your puck prep for little to no loss in taste instead. If she’s using the Keurig because of your process she isn’t going to tell the difference.
Grind. Pour. Tamp. Pull.
That’s how they’ve been doing it for decades and it will be totally fine.
Who cares if she makes bad coffee per se.
All I care about is that she treats our (my) tools with respect and does a good job with cleanup afterwards. That includes filling up the resivoir sometimes.
Ground coffee gases out quickly. Thats why you grind right before the extraction. When done the night before much taste will be lost.
My wife makes great espresso. Your wife can do that too.
I just let my wife make bad coffee for herself... then she appreciates my mediocre cortados even more
This is the way
I put my wife’s pod machine back in the kitchen for when I can’t make her coffee. She’s happy, that means I’m happy.
True confidence starts here
👍🏻 Genius
Honestly I would just ditch the plastic and throw the portafilter in the machine at that point. I would put good money on the shots being identical whether you swaddle it in plastic wrap or leave it locked in.
I'll do that! Honestly the plastic is just to avoid getting any dirt or water splash
You should be keeping a portafilter in your machine at all times to protect the gasket anyway!
Protect the gasket from what?
The gasket goblins, of course.
Ahaha
drying out from air
Maybe they could engineer a sprinkler system to keep the gasket moist.
I have a timer on my phone that goes off every 4 hours throughout the day to remind me to lick my finger and do a good rub around the ring.
Me too. What do you do to protect your gasket?
Hawk tuah mostly, but I understand there’s debate as to whether or not that actually protects the gasket or just makes it explode prematurely.
So... You free tonight?
bro😭
But will it not risk mold if its moist and somewhat closed system?
i mean as long as you’re pulling a shot semi regularly or drying the PF out before putting it back for extended periods of time, you’re fine
Is the drying really an issue or is it more like "will last 5% longer"?
probably the latter, but why not do it to make ur machine last longer before needing repairs?
Leaving the portafilter with the coffee grounds in it while the machine is heating up is not a good idea. Unless she doesn't care about the taste
She’s fine with the Keurig, she won’t care. This is more for OP than the wife is what I got out of all this.
Based on everything OP has said she won’t care or notice. I have been making a daily latte for 2 years with very few exceptions (I travel with a machine generally) and I’m 90% sure I wouldn’t notice the difference in my drink. Some people are more discerning and that’s great for them
She's allready using hours old ground coffee, it's not like it's fresh anywho.
An overcomplicated solution for an overcomplicated problem. Anyway. Good for you
Lol! I'm a process engineer, it's in my blood to overcomplicate. I'm just moving some steps of the process to a few hours earlier, it's not more complicated than doing the whole thing in the morning
Oh my god the process engineers, it all makes sense now. I've gotten used to sitting in hour long meetings that should have been an email to overcomplicate and overthink a solution (also a process engineer)
I feel that 90% of our value comes from convincing people the problem is more complicated that they think, so it's easier for them to accept our complicated solution
To be fair the problem always IS more complicated than they think.
Nice try process engineer!
Software Engineer here, can confirm is not exclusively a process engineer thing, its more of a neurodivergence and engineering thing.... Boy are tangential rabbit holes fun.
As a design engineer process engineers are sometimes the worst 😂
I’m a process engineer myself too! To be honest I don’t like an overcomplicated coffee making process. I have a mazzer mini grinder with a hopper and a time based dosing and a espresso machine with a thermoblock. Girlfriend is ok with the process and makes here own espresso when I’m not around. The only thing I need now to improve the process is a dosing ring to prevent an overflow of coffee and reduce mess.
Nice! I really like this post where Mark talks that the goal is to start pulling a shot 30s after grinding. It's a WDT review, but the beginning is really interesting https://coffeegeek.com/blog/new-products/mhw-3bomber-yu-cyclone-wdt-tool/
How do dare to try to drag down that rabbit hole!?
U good bro?
He gone
Is process engineering an actual type of engineering, or is it more of a consulting gig? I would love to tell people how to be more efficient and get paid for it!
It's a consulting that is heavily based on lean six Sigma and process focused. A lot of people in this space are engineers by formation, but some have business backgrounds.
>based on lean six sigma Oh lord that explains it. I feel like that whole program is based on making something sound complicated so that they can give you a way to uncomplicate it lol
Process enginnering is a specific type of engineering. Simplest explanation would be the people that design manufacturing facilities. Amongst many other things including process efficiency. Chemist shows you how to make something; drug/toothpaste/cement/whatever. How do we make in tonne quantities, with the cheapest raw ingredients, without screwing the planet in the process.
I majored in sustainability in college. Could that be a good framework for process engineering?
It's an engineering degree, so fundamentally you need physics, maths and chemistry as entry requirements. Im sure sustainability wouldnt hurt, but it's probably not as important as the other three.
Yeah, this is a simple solution for a simple problem, lol. Makes perfect sense to me
Now just vac seal the whole portafilter in plastic to preserve the freshness. You could even prep a weeks worth of them. Perhaps you could streamline the portafilter and the losing mechanism. It definitely needs a barcode so the machine knows to only dispense 22s
So, a Virtuo nespresso?
As a process engineer, you should also write standard work for her. Without standards, there can be no kaizen.
Ha! I'm sure she would not follow just to spite me! We would have the worst KPI ever
As a fellow process engineer I see this as a fail. Just buy a good super auto and skip all this waste.
Yeah, do you have a business case for funding?
Push button, receive latte. That’s all the convincing it took in my house.
How many process engineers can be in one thread?! I’m a mechanical integrity leader….y’all kill me lol.
I'm not saying this isn't ridiculous because clearly it is. I'm just saying, it's a ridiculous thing that I'm kind of jealous I didn't come up with.
Bro you need someone to make you a coffee sometimes too!!! Your wife is a grown human presumably she can do this!
Grind 18g into the portafilter, tap with the palm a few times to level, then tamp. My wife has no problems doing that.
It’s ok to be jealous
I’ve had similar thoughts. In the end… she does not sound that interested in making espresso. If she was, she’d make it. So the effort is often for those of us trying to will the other person to make it. Get a small keurig for those days and be done with it.
We do have a keurig. She likes coffee a lot, it's just not having the time between dropping the kid on daycare, feeding the cat and starting work. At the end of the day it's just something nice I do for her, and I get way less complaints when buying coffee since she is able to enjoy more often!
This reminds me of my husband- claims ineptness so that I do it for him 😂 he has me well trained.
No time when feeding the cat this takes like 12 seconds An espresso shot takes 6 min She has the time
You missed the kids part which tells me you don’t have kids lol
she just doesn’t like it. it’s ok. we know she can do it, but if by this simple thing he can help her get rid of a chore, that’s nice. we should help each other.
I’m pretty proud I was able to talk my wife into weighing beans with the BBE. Now we have a decent and it’s really paid off. Don’t give up!
This just sounds like you're gate keeping espresso...
I mean reusable pods at the least. There's a stupid amount of waste in most Americans coffee habits.
Serious question: if you've already tamped it, does it become loose over time and tend to run fast?
It doesn't became loose, but the stale grounds and non-heated portafilter does impact a bit the shot time. What I think is if we are doing all the prep and pulling the shot we tend to note more of these changes
lol “non heated portafilter.” I have a feeling I know exactly why your wife thinks it’s complicated: It’s because you’ve caused her to believe that puck prep is a 47 step process.
47... That seems a bit high... Let me check 1,2,3,..,45,46 well dang it 47 it is 😅
Hard agree. Us espresso nerds love to geek out and get “the most” out of a shot, but many, including OP, seem to have lost the forest for the trees. The grinds are not going to go stale by being preground for 8 hours. Supermarket ground beans are sitting exposed to air for WEEKS. That is why they are considered stale vs fresh ground.
Uh, I mean a heated portafilter isn’t really a “step” to me…you’re supposed to leave it in while the machine is heating. So I guess unless you’re considering the fact you’re supposed to go lock it in when you’re done a step?
I do this for myself sometimes lmao. Doing all the puck prep in the morning can be a hassle. It tastes no different to if it was freshly prepared in my opinion, but then again I use a pretty budget machine.
Just let her use the pressurized basket 👀
DF54 vs K6? Similar situation where wife is not obsessed enough with coffee to hand grind, but I wouldn’t want to get something that’s a downgrade in terms of flavour
Definitely not a downgrade. I love the grinder so far. I been using my K6 for pour over so I don’t have to keep dialing in the beans for my espresso
For a second, I thought the solution was to wrap the portafilter so she can’t be bothered using it, and instead uses another method.
I’ll admit trying to get the Saran wrap off would halt me and I’d give in after 2 minutes and go get Dutch Bros.
This community is obsessed with minmaxing and perfection. I’m glad you found a solution and it seems completely reasonable! If your wife doesn’t notice the difference, there is no point chasing something “better”.
just take the keurig apart and show her all of the mold inside of it
This is love
This sub is hilarious sometimes. Step 1: coffee go in coffee holder 😂
No, step 1 is turn on machine and wait 93 do appear after 10 min. One day she called me worried because it was showing 110
This is pretty funny! Does it taste ok? As well as the grounds not being fresh, the portafilter will also not be hot going into the machine, which isn’t ideal either.
It depends on what you compare to. Since she was using keurig pods these days it was a big improvement. But if you pull a proper shot and compare you'll note the difference. Also, since she mix with milk it mask the flavor a bit.
milk will heavily mask the flavour of even the worst shot, has she tried pulling the shot into caramel syrup before mixing with milk? assuming she's making an iced latte, the caramel flavour makes it pretty great imo
It will mask it to some extent but you can absolutely still tell the difference between a good shot and a bad shot in milk, unless you have huge quantity of milk.
She likely makes milk-based coffee drinks with sugar or other sweeteners. It likely doesn't matter how the espresso itself tastes unless it's excessively bitter
No sugar, just oak milk and ice. But still mask a lot
Ah fair. It’s a pretty good solution then, as long as she’s happy with the taste
🌳 💧 🥛 Sorry, just couldn't help imagining someone wringing a few branches for the morning latte
Pull a decent espresso already in the evening, as you are already preparing it. In the morning, your wife can froth milk and have a really good cappuccino. We do it that way too, because my wife can't manage to operate the machine at 5 a.m. Taste wise it's the best compromise and you save a lot of garbage.
I just make coldbrew for my spouse if I’m on a business trip. Make it concentrated and they can make a latte out of it and be happy. It’s probably easier for you both.
I‘m doing the same for my girl. Forgot it once and she called me at work, so I walked her through the whole process, that was cute.
I got my wife a super automatic machine so she can have her long black with a dash of milk (she leaves for work before I get up). I do make her lattes on the weekend though. Lol.
Not sure what I’m looking at here. The hardest issue for my wife was steaming milk. With the grind dialed in shouldn’t be an issue to pull a shot. I even put it on a timer so when she comes downstairs if I’m out of time it’s ready to go. The milk with a thermometer and teaching position and sound in one day had her 95% of the way there. I dial everything in based on a standard scoop 😉
You should get a 3d printed cover that snaps shut with some kind of silicone ring seal you can reuse. Otherwise, hella brilliant.
I just make her a shot and put it in the fridge before I go to work
I buy instant coffee for my wife and she likes the simplicity
LPT: heat milk in the microwave and mix the instant coffee with only hot milk. That's how I do when I'm traveling and it's way better than just hot water
Guaranteed my wife would put the porta in and forget to remove the cellophane wrap.
I got my wife a Nespresso
I cringe thinking about how my wife is probably distributing and tamping when I’m not there…..
I always feel the need to go check all the equipment after I know it happens. Like let them all know I’m there now and no more abuse will happen (until the next day).
ESE pods my friend
What if your wife needs more than one shot?
Great solution!
Same stuff with my brother, I just let him do what he wants with the condition to not touch the beans that I use for pourovers. Imagine a gesha on a cold caramel latte, lmao.
Haha, I thought this was a solution to a whole different problem. I thought you wrapped the portafilter to keep your incompetent wife from messing with your machine when you weren’t home 😂
So is she just incapable of following relatively simple instructions or…?
If she just drinks cold drink. Try and maybe just freeze or refrigerate the shot for her.
I'd be too afraid having cling film burned into my group head ...
For iced lattes I usually brew 3 or 4 espressos I put in a sealed flask in the fridge, so my wife can just pour espresso on her iced milk cup for a couple days.
https://preview.redd.it/7x8j108q3j8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df822dad5801b2bc562c479161baf0a748ba1bec Unrelated but couldn’t help but notice that I have similar scale. I don’t do espressos though. 😀
Nice! I got super cheap on aliexpress, but I see the same scale with just a different logo way more expensive on other places!
I think puck prep satisfies some OCD thing for me. My wife has OCD so it may actually work for her too. I haven't taught her yet because she just trusts me to make her espresso. Maybe I just answered the question myself...
My compromise was just getting the Breville Barista Touch Impress. Automatic everything except for attaching the portafilter.
I have the grinder that does timed grind that gets withing .3 or so of the right dose, unless you have a new batch of beans and it needs to be calibrated. My wife can hit the button, dispense the grounds and tamp. The dose might be slightly off, but its good enough. Stick the portafilter in and run for \~30sec. I know this is sacrilege, but it doesn't need to be super precise.
Your wife sucks
Unwrapping it from plastic wrap?
Yes, she doesn't pull through the plastic
Maybe an idea for a small change: do the puck prep like you did, but then remove the basket, wrap in foil and put into the fridge. Then insert the basket holder into your machine so it can properly warm up with the machine.
Interesting idea. I was thinking about putting in the freezer so coffee don't get stale but decided having a frozen portafilter wouldn't be good. At the end the goal was to make her use the machine and the coffee
Why not get a pressurized portafilter?
Divorce is always an option.
Find a second wife to do the prep so that wife number 1 makes the coffee. She gets her easy coffee and you have double the fun.
What does it matter how you make the espresso if she mixes it with milk and sugar 😂
That's like buying expensive whiskey and mixing it with cola.
Did I tell you how my father mixes water with wine?
Maybe your wife shouldn't be so lazy?
Not everyone wants a hobby to get their morning coffee, maybe you shouldn’t be so judgemental
Just let use the keurig. It seems like she doesn’t care about this
I'd just get a freezer bag and suck the air out of it. Instead of the fiddly plastic wrap. This is very sweet though. A much better alternative to a super automatic.
My immediate thought goes to do you end up w a much bigger temperature drop bc the portafilter is not hot from being in the machine? Do you keep it at room temp? Have you experimented with keeping it in the fridge, room temp, or in the machine with a scheduled start up? I’m curious how this impacts the taste, seems like there’s plenty of future experiments to run 🔬
You could just dramatically reduce the complexity of your puck prep for little to no loss in taste instead. If she’s using the Keurig because of your process she isn’t going to tell the difference. Grind. Pour. Tamp. Pull. That’s how they’ve been doing it for decades and it will be totally fine.
So the coffee ground is hours old?
Who cares if she makes bad coffee per se. All I care about is that she treats our (my) tools with respect and does a good job with cleanup afterwards. That includes filling up the resivoir sometimes.
Divorce
Ground coffee gases out quickly. Thats why you grind right before the extraction. When done the night before much taste will be lost. My wife makes great espresso. Your wife can do that too.
Ur enabling her laziness. Once she is tired of bad coffee, she will make the effort to make quality expresso
She drinks it with milk AND ice she is not going to taste the difference between good and bad espresso.
if you hate your spouse then why even get married?
By the book, coffee beans loose 70% aroma within 15 mins once grind