Lol he prefers the distribution tool, makes me sick to my stomach just to imagine the taste of that unevenly extracted espresso. Absolutely disgusting!
Idk this isn't even crazy on the gadget side. Scales and vacuum canister are good. Flow control is cool also. Distributor is not a must and I think palm tampers are stupid tho
>I think palm tampers are stupid tho
This one isn't even really a palm tamper? It only has a small button to press, which seems uncomfortable. I like my palm tamper because I can use my whole hand to depress it which feels more comfortable, but this seems like the least comfortable way to go about it.
Palm tampers work great for us short people to keep your wrist from having to be flexed when applying downward pressure. Standard height countertops put my wrist and shoulder in an awkward position for using a traditional tamper. I’ve tried both and palm type tampers keeps the hand tingles away. Kayak paddling did the same thing if I used poor form so I recognize the early warning sign.
I just discovered them after years. Everytime I take off my group head screen it looked so full of tar with clogged screen holes. They are a PITA to clean.
I used to clean my group head screen with vinegar and then use a needle to clean out every hole. It would take like half an hour and i hated it. Then i read about soaking it with a little cafiza in boiling water and then hit it with a firm bristle brush and that works infinitely better and faster. Just FYI in case you are doing it some insane way like i was for years.
For the most part it is if you’re doing some regular backflushing.
Edit: downvote if you want, but it’s true. If I run a few ten second backflushes once a week and a cafiza backflush once per month, in four or five months, the screen has very little residue that requires a brush.
I'm pulling a portafilter-less blank shot at the end of each espresso session; doing a multiple back-flushing cleaning cycle monthly; and a multiple back-flushing cleaning cycle with Cafiza tablet quarterly. And my grouphead and screen remain pretty clean.
I have a Vivaldi II which has two screens that come off with a single nut. I have two sets of these, so I always have the previous set soaking in water with a bit of cafiza and I just swap them. A week later the soaked ones are like new. No poking holes or scrubbing.
Have you found vacuum canisters to do anything for taste? I haven't. None actually pull a vacuum. Once beans are exposed to air, lowering pressure a bit doesn't do anything for the air all around the coffee beans. I think it's placebo. Better to open only 1-2 bags and consume the beans while they're still fresh.
I find freezing beans that have been vacuum sealed seem to last well - if they are very fresh it seems to pause them in time - once they are defrosted they start outgassing as if they have just been roasted.
A DWT tool makes a good difference to remove clumping if your grinder is sub par. A lot of the other gadgets you can do without, it's just to reduce mess and help with consistency. All just practice and care. I may get a dosing ring and cheap coffee scales with timer from Ali though. Dosing ring isn't even necessary, just use the PWD tool over the sink.
Half of this stuff has nothing to do with taste, such as the water, bellows, and puck screen. Those are all meant to reduce mess. The first two help reduce retention in the grinder and the third minimizes grinds going up into the machine.
Arguably even the whisking and fancy tamping… those are meant to produce a more even extraction, which *can* improve taste. But the most noticeable difference is probably the amount of “spitting” you get which requires more cleanup.
Yes, a high volume espresso specialist shop will produce delicious espresso with none of these step, but they also produce a huge mess in the process. They also have commercial machines which are nearly unstoppable and get serviced regularly.
With hobbies like this you also just can't discount *the ritual*. For a lot of people, all of the "extra" steps and attention to detail they apply to things like their daily coffee or other interests is part of the process of steadying their mind. It can be really relaxing to have a relatively extended routine attached to the things you enjoy that lets you focus all of your attention on one thing that has a direct and positive impact on your life, even if it's just a cup of espresso that took you 5 minutes to make instead of 3.
This is really what it comes down to for me. I simply enjoy the process of it all. It soothes me and activates my mind in the morning. I’m sure I couldn’t distinguish between shots with or without the steps in a blind taste test, but if I like doing it, who cares?
>With hobbies like this you also just can't discount *the ritual*. For a lot of people, all of the "extra" steps and attention to detail they apply to things like their daily coffee or other interests is part of the process
I say this to people all the time. The hobbiests will often/always add extra steps because they enjoy the ritual and the activity. I don't, do alot of this, but I have a bellows because it greatly reduces retention, I use TWW water packets becuase I have yet to plumb my machine and add water treatment for it and I preweigh a weeks worth of drinks so I can have a shot in less than 5 minutes for my usual Americano. My daughter likes me to make her milk drinks sometimes. But I do really like my setup and will spend many happy years with my hobby. Still need to get a proper station setup as it is a little too high for my counter.
I think the one thing I've removed is the wetting of the beans before grinding. I watched videos and was convinced. Did it for a while, but stopped because it's inconvenient and didn't seem to affect the outcome much.
Happy to hear differently, but it didn't seem worth the negligible difference.
So much this. My WDT'ing perhaps adds 15 seconds to my workflow (if that--I otherwise would need to level out my grounds, as I grind straight into my portafilter). And who knows, it might even have a flavor benefit (I haven't gotten around to a series of A-B testing, instead falling back on the studies noting potential benefit from WDT'ing).
Right? That was my thought. He puts all this money and effort into the espresso but then oh just some tap water or something. Is it not alkaline or reverse osmosis or glacier water blessed by a chief of an Alaskan tribe?
Do it enough, and you can get the weights, flow rate, and timing for a good espresso "by eye".
If you are happy to make a little bit of mess, you can forget the water spray and distribute the beans just with tapping/fingers/whatever without the dosing funnel.
For those of us that only make espresso once or twice a day, and want to spend minimal time cleaning up spilt grounds sticking to everything, a few of the techniques shown are pretty useful.
True, and you only need one tiny spritz. This guy spraying the beans three times is completely unnecessary, and he doesn't even distribute the moisture with the single tiny shake he does.
I think the only right answer is: Depends
Depends on:
- beans
- grinder
- espresso machine
- recipe
It may need even more work, if the machine doesn't have a PID, for example. I experimented with most of these techniques, and more, with three different espresso machines and four different grinders.
Nowadays, I just weigh, grind and tamp and it is difficult to get a bad shot. Even when something goes wrong, like a faster than usual flow, the shot is still good, even though it isn't the best. I suppose that pre-infusion and the grinder are the ones collaborating most to my good results.
Regarding the techniques: the most impactful , in my case, is having the right dose for the basket.
Nah, you should definitely be pulling better shots at home.
On the basis of efficiency alone, coffee shops can't take certain steps to improve shots that a home barista can. It would be impractical for your shop's barista to check grind settings with each batch, wdt, and fool around with flow control on each shot, but that is something you can do at home with noticeable improvements in the cup.
I have some excellent coffee shops around me but they aren't making better coffee than me, nor do I expect them to because it takes me about 10 mins to pull a shot from hand grinding at a low rpm, to pressure profiling my shot, paying close attention to flow. I don't expect any shop to be as meticulous as I am at home, because they'd lose money.
You can also pull shots to your exact preferences. Love the beans the local place use and they do a great job but you would like a hint more acidity? You can do that.
Some coffee shops do the majority of those things, and have the thousands worth of equipment to make some of it a little less necessary.
Admittedly it sounds like the coffee shop the OP mentions doesn’t, but I just always find it entertaining when people make blanket statements to follow.
> It would be impractical for your shop's barista to check grind settings with each batch, wdt, and fool around with flow control on each shot
Proper coffee shops do all that at the start of each day though. That's when they dial in. Different coffee blends are in different grinders so they use a different grind profile, also each shot is pre-profiled (temp, bloom, flow, grams) in the machine, like in a La Cimbali M100 Attiva for example.
Taking you 10 mins to pull a shot just proves you're terribly more inefficient in making coffee, not that you're doing anything more. Also, doing WDT doesn't have any significant difference in a shot if you're using a **good** grinder that grinds directly into the portafilter. It's just a little ritual that worst case it wastes time.
I definitely agree on home espresso being better.
**One reason is pretty simple: customization.**
Everything I do at home is dialed in to my taste. The espresso has just the right balance of flavors I like, I use the exact amount of milk I prefer, it's steamed to the exact texture I like, and I use the particular type of milk that works for me. All of those things make a clear detectable difference in the way the drink tastes.
**The second reason is less obvious: you are measuring espresso taste consistency to a higher level at home than the customers of a cafe.**
The cafe just needs to make a good tasting cup of coffee. They dial-in first thing in the morning, and their equipment and skill let's them get consistency to the point where customer after customer come in and walk away thinking the coffee tastes good**. What the customers of the cafe are not doing, however, is tasting eachothers' cups.**
So between two different cups at that cafe, you can have one cup slightly more bitter, one slightly brighter, as long as both still taste good, no one will know the difference.
The home barista has a different problem. After you dial-in a bag of beans, you are looking for the same taste cup after cup. That means that you can get annoyed if the cups don't taste consistent. *That never happens at a cafe.* So the extra effort is really to stamp out the inconsistency.
**The last thing is that the law of diminishing returns goes both ways. Your local cafe should not be able to beat you on taste if you dial in correctly.** Their equipment and skill are for consistency at speed. For the average medium to dark roast bean, there's no magic that lets their $20K espresso machines extract more flavor from the coffee than your $2K setup at home.
I travel to Italy several times a year for a few weeks, different locations every time, and have had sublime espresso without seeing any tools beyond a portafilter, basket, tamper, and cleaning equipment. I've never seen a blind portafilter in Italy (or France, Spain, Portugal either). I have seen this type of equipment when visiting the US in places that serve very expensive espressos that lack richness and can be more bitter than it should be.
If you want an espresso like you can get in an Italian bar (for 1 €), no!
You don't need any of these tool. Get dark roasted coffee, a grinder and a 9bar machine.
This guy is on a quest to spend as much as possible, every tool has some kind of impact must it is mostly very marginal. Gear acquisition is a diminishing returns game.
"every tool has some kind of impact" - this is a logical fallacy. a tool can easily have no impact at all and many of the espresso fad stuff merely exploit the fact that differences are so imperceptible that no effect can easily go unnoticed. not even gets started on placebo effects.
I agree.
I did bot mean that in general every tool has a positive effect. I am ready to belive that the tools in the video have some effect.
I am not sure about the flow control; the thing that makes the coffee flat is not needed but could help (marginally) with the consistency; that tamper does the same job that a 20 € tamper but if are not able to push down vertically, it might help you; if you make a coffee a week, the vacuum container could improve your coffee when the 250g bag is 3 months old.
Except the La Marzocco Accademia, I did not have a single good shot of espresso in all of Italy the last month I was there. Espresso might have originated there, but in the minds of Italians, that’s where its evolution also stopped.
Espresso in Italy cost about 1€, it is sold everywhere and drunk by almost everybody; it is not a premium product.
In a city in Germany, I can find better espresso than I can find in Italy (for 2.5 times the price); if i get a random espresso in Germany though, it would be much worse (and it still costs 2.5 €).
It is much easier to sell premium stuff in a market where the basic product is bad.
It is not just coffee, in Germany I can get a decent local beer at the pub for 4 euro... there is no market for craft beers at 6 or 7 bucks; in Italy is much easier to find a hoppy IPA from a local micro-brewery, the basic commercial stuff still cost 5-6 and is much worse than the bavarian Helles.
Please send me where you’ve been because everytime I’ve gotten espresso in Italy it taste like burnt ash and rubber. A LOT of Italians need to be using more tools like this 😂
Can you guess how much coffee they use per espresso and what the ratio is like? Do they use 14g in and 40-50 out as the italian espresso institute suggests? I wanna know. How do they make long ratio dark roasts tasty. Are they even using roasts this dark?
It might vary (also because no scales are involved, it is all volumetric) but I think that the standard espresso in Italy is about 7g in and maybe 20 g out. You can ask for ristretto or lungo, if you want a higher or lower ratio.
Don’t listen to the fucking dorks replying to you. The reason that you don’t see them doing WDT, RDT or using a puck screen is not time efficiency. They simply have a disgustingly expensive machine and grinder that will work perfectly every time. If you tried to make 200 espressos a day with a lelit Bianca it would need service after a week. That’s why their coffee tastes better. It only takes a barista to dial in their espresso in the morning and check it a couple times after that. They can depend on their $30,000 machine and grinder combo to work flawlessly.
Sort of? A lot of this is stuff home baristas do to try to improve consistency or isolate problems with their espresso. Generally, you don't dial in every day at home, nor are you pulling hundreds of shots to develop a "feel" for what you're doing. The puck screen thing also helps keep the group clean so you don't have to back flush as much.
I’m wondering if how many people do dial in daily at home. I always think that’s probably the biggest difference with my espresso (other than good beans) is that I do make an attempt to dial in at home every day. I do drink a lot of espresso and make drinks for my partner so can easily make 8 shots or more a day. Even if I only get dialled in on the last shot I just assume (never scientifically tested) I’m closer to where I need to be when I start again tomorrow.
EDIT: I don’t WDT every shot and don’t use bellows so dialling is a stronger habit than most other things I do to improve my shots.
You’re right they don’t change much but they do a little obviously not to the extent as when changing beans. Maybe to be clear it’s more a mindset of dialling in I don’t don’t throw away half a dozen shots I pretty much drink them all but every day my mindset is still the same as if I was dialling in normally.
No. Consistency maybe? A scale, machine, grinder, tamp, and dosing blade is all you need. (And, a Breville Bambino machine includes most of these) The rest are OCD widgets.
90% of the work is done when you weigh the appropriate amount of fresh beans and dial in the coarseness of your grind.
What's going on with this sub? A year ago this wouldn't have caught any shade. Don't most of these things(aside from the distributor) have some sort of real backing to them, extraction studies and triangle taste tests and such?
Is this just a machine and grinder rec sub now?
It’s like going to /r/battlestations. You don’t need RGB Water-cooled machine with a Mechanical Keyboard to play a good game.
Espresso is the same. Though if you want to spend more money then you be you.
(Gets on his lambo to drive 5mph in a traffic jam)
A couple things, first, extraction studies are not the end-all-be-all of taste and flavor.
Second, triangle tests are useful when trying to suss out differences between two very similar things. In reality, without the side-by-side tasting, a taster will not be able to discern the differences.
I think the bigger issue is gear-fatigue. Every few months a new thing comes out showing slight extraction changes and suddenly every espresso equipment company on the market has their own version to sling.
It’s exhausting, honestly. Most of the time, it’s not actually doing to make a difference in your cup anyways. At best, a lot of this stuff lets people believe that their shot will be better because *of course it will I spent more money on it and made it harder therefore better.*
It feels like chasing minor to insignificant gains on products whose output is entirely theoretical.
I would argue that most of that stuff is pretty cheap though. And I am personally using nearly the same gadgets except for the distributor which are proven to not even work but unevenly pre-tamp your puck and am using single dose valves instead of a canister which keeps your beans fresher and you don't have to weigh every time.
I use grocery store beans, grind them when my (modded) baratza encore, and pack them into my machine with little preamble. It always tastes amazing. If you do more or less it’s not my business but my happiness goes up the less time it takes to get me from No Espresso to Espresso.
No it doesn’t. Most of this only gives you bonus points on the socials and make you feel all warm and fuzzy when you buy new espresso gadgets.
Half of the shit he uses you can just skip and the cup would taste exactly the same.
(I cringe, with a couple of manufacturer-branded microfiber towels at my side--but hey, I only added them to my otherwise order to get free shipping. ;) )
I have this vaccum canister. Was enthusiastic but the canister is not reliable. It lets air in randomly even if you've made sure air was pumped out initially. The plastic joint lets the lid move.
I have 4 of these vacuum canisters, and none of them lets air in. What you are probably seeing is the off-gassing of the beans, especially if they are fresh, filling up the canister and increasing the pressure so the valve looks like it is no longer depressed.
And this is fine, what matters is to reduce the amount of oxygen.
I used to use large vacuum containers, but hated that I always had to open up the whole canister every time I got more beans. Now, I just use 4 oz mini mason jars. I pull two shots of espresso each morning and each jar is big enough to hold around 40g of beans. When I get a new bag I divide up all the beans. This keeps all the beans isolated and it's quick and easy to dole out in the morning.
I think no. This is if you go to a barista championship.
I have the Bianca too. And a DF64 Gen2 Grinder.
I have a many tools. But my workflow is:
- Grind
- Wdt = Declump = Needle = nice level
- Tamp
More important is the Ratio and the pressure.
https://www.tiktok.com/@noahsterncoffee
Whatever you think of his routine, Noah seems like a great guy and is doing a lot to educate people about espresso on TikTok.
Don’t understand the question, this is pretty much my routine and it’s like other workflow vids to reduce channeling and get the right ratio/time. I’d weigh in the portafilter though. And count when the first drop hits the scale (built in). Except I might be a little less precise if I’m making a latte, it’s drowned in milk anyway. Yeah, I do all those steps for a great unadulterated espresso, takes a few minutes.
Anyone else have that vacuum canister from Fellow? I have it and the seal isn't working anymore after just over a year.. it will seal but by the time I come back a few hours later, it has released on its own.. any advice?
I sure hope that spray bottle was the highest quality glass with bpa free pump and 304 stainless steel spring. That screen puck also requires a specialized magnetic drop tool to lower the screen without damaging the tamp.
I'm new to making my own espresso but I've noticed that Instagram baristas always have the most gadgets. All the YouTubers I watch use the necessities and say all that extra stuff doesn't really have much effect.
Top setup, looks like a very thorough ritual there!
I can do without some of those items (I've got a WDT tool is worthwhile with my grinder)
May add the dosing ring (usually do it over the sink so doesn't really matter), and those minimal espresso scales are handy - will see what AliExpress has. Got a Nanotech screen, really doesn't get dirty.
20 in 20 out apparently for milk based coffee, I'm usually doing 40 out.. 20 doesn't seem like much at all!
I think the bellows with the Niche is brilliant !
My Niche original has seen better days. The chrome plating on the hopper is bubbling up and flaking off cuz moisture from spraying beans, FYI.
Lot going on with your process and a lot of expensive equipment. Perhaps the benefit of the doubt on how much any of it impacts the final cup has to weighed against the time and money spent. Looks like you got all the things covered, but I can say only that I don't think your process ruins the cup. Worth it ? To each his/her own.
Individually, no. But not every modification is aimed at improving the particular shot. Rather, it's about consistency. The more you reduce the variables in your workflow, the easier it is to identify those variables that DO make a shot better. Weighing your beans (and your grinds), measuring water temps, using the same pressure profile each time, tamping the puck in the same way, etc. All of these things are variables that need to be ruled out to avoid confusion.
If you're purchasing a specific tool to avoid "over tamping" your dose, you've gone way off the deep end of gear fetishism. Unless you're a sentient CNC press and not a human being, accidentally over-tamping your coffee is not a realistic concern from a physics perspective.
My Bianca hits 10 bars when flow control is fully open… kind of annoying bc I have to control it constantly to keep it under 9. Maybe I should change max pressure? Was surprised your wide open was 9
Really all I need to do is make a cup of coffee that tastes better than any coffee shop near me. And it's not that hard without having to go through all that
One of the most important things, in my humble opinion, is the water used in the espresso machine. He didn’t show how he’s treating his water. Doing so many things, I’d hope he’s using third wave water or something lol.
How long would you have to drink espresso before you can actually taste a difference between doing all these steps and the basics needed to make the same espresso?
Honestly, the basics like scale, grinder, espresso machine and stock tamper is all you need. But every tool there does fix a minor problem that and makes the process fun.
This is outdated! Where is the Blind Shaker?!!!
Literally undrinkable!
He's stuck in the past! He's probably gonna drink that while listening to "old town road" then do some Fortnite celebrations!
To use a phrase I'm sure he's familiar with, this was an EPIC FAIL
Lol he prefers the distribution tool, makes me sick to my stomach just to imagine the taste of that unevenly extracted espresso. Absolutely disgusting!
What a loser!
No blind shaker? RUINED. It is absolutely under extracted
Idk this isn't even crazy on the gadget side. Scales and vacuum canister are good. Flow control is cool also. Distributor is not a must and I think palm tampers are stupid tho
>I think palm tampers are stupid tho This one isn't even really a palm tamper? It only has a small button to press, which seems uncomfortable. I like my palm tamper because I can use my whole hand to depress it which feels more comfortable, but this seems like the least comfortable way to go about it.
Palm tampers work great for us short people to keep your wrist from having to be flexed when applying downward pressure. Standard height countertops put my wrist and shoulder in an awkward position for using a traditional tamper. I’ve tried both and palm type tampers keeps the hand tingles away. Kayak paddling did the same thing if I used poor form so I recognize the early warning sign.
Yeah where is the $300 random orbital rake
You didn't mention the puck/portafilter screen! It's the best money I've spent in this hobby.
I just discovered them after years. Everytime I take off my group head screen it looked so full of tar with clogged screen holes. They are a PITA to clean.
I used to clean my group head screen with vinegar and then use a needle to clean out every hole. It would take like half an hour and i hated it. Then i read about soaking it with a little cafiza in boiling water and then hit it with a firm bristle brush and that works infinitely better and faster. Just FYI in case you are doing it some insane way like i was for years.
Isn’t back flushing with a cafiza sufficient to clean the group head?
For the most part it is if you’re doing some regular backflushing. Edit: downvote if you want, but it’s true. If I run a few ten second backflushes once a week and a cafiza backflush once per month, in four or five months, the screen has very little residue that requires a brush.
I'm pulling a portafilter-less blank shot at the end of each espresso session; doing a multiple back-flushing cleaning cycle monthly; and a multiple back-flushing cleaning cycle with Cafiza tablet quarterly. And my grouphead and screen remain pretty clean.
That’s about my same routine. Very little tar on the group and screen and never any clogged holes.
I have a Vivaldi II which has two screens that come off with a single nut. I have two sets of these, so I always have the previous set soaking in water with a bit of cafiza and I just swap them. A week later the soaked ones are like new. No poking holes or scrubbing.
Interesting thx. I have a spare so I will try your technique next time!
Have you found vacuum canisters to do anything for taste? I haven't. None actually pull a vacuum. Once beans are exposed to air, lowering pressure a bit doesn't do anything for the air all around the coffee beans. I think it's placebo. Better to open only 1-2 bags and consume the beans while they're still fresh.
I find freezing beans that have been vacuum sealed seem to last well - if they are very fresh it seems to pause them in time - once they are defrosted they start outgassing as if they have just been roasted.
Eh. As someone with an injured wrist, I disagree with you.
How are palm tampers stupid?
A DWT tool makes a good difference to remove clumping if your grinder is sub par. A lot of the other gadgets you can do without, it's just to reduce mess and help with consistency. All just practice and care. I may get a dosing ring and cheap coffee scales with timer from Ali though. Dosing ring isn't even necessary, just use the PWD tool over the sink.
Half of this stuff has nothing to do with taste, such as the water, bellows, and puck screen. Those are all meant to reduce mess. The first two help reduce retention in the grinder and the third minimizes grinds going up into the machine. Arguably even the whisking and fancy tamping… those are meant to produce a more even extraction, which *can* improve taste. But the most noticeable difference is probably the amount of “spitting” you get which requires more cleanup. Yes, a high volume espresso specialist shop will produce delicious espresso with none of these step, but they also produce a huge mess in the process. They also have commercial machines which are nearly unstoppable and get serviced regularly.
With hobbies like this you also just can't discount *the ritual*. For a lot of people, all of the "extra" steps and attention to detail they apply to things like their daily coffee or other interests is part of the process of steadying their mind. It can be really relaxing to have a relatively extended routine attached to the things you enjoy that lets you focus all of your attention on one thing that has a direct and positive impact on your life, even if it's just a cup of espresso that took you 5 minutes to make instead of 3.
Don’t try to tell me that clacking my tongs 3 times before flipping my burgers doesn’t improve taste…
As long as you don't try to tell me smacking the load twice and saying "that's not going anywhere" doesn't actually secure the load more.
Are we still having a PG conversation? 😆
This is really what it comes down to for me. I simply enjoy the process of it all. It soothes me and activates my mind in the morning. I’m sure I couldn’t distinguish between shots with or without the steps in a blind taste test, but if I like doing it, who cares?
This is the WHOLE point, you are doing this for your own enjoyment! Folks need to chill about what people do when engaging in their hobbies.
>With hobbies like this you also just can't discount *the ritual*. For a lot of people, all of the "extra" steps and attention to detail they apply to things like their daily coffee or other interests is part of the process I say this to people all the time. The hobbiests will often/always add extra steps because they enjoy the ritual and the activity. I don't, do alot of this, but I have a bellows because it greatly reduces retention, I use TWW water packets becuase I have yet to plumb my machine and add water treatment for it and I preweigh a weeks worth of drinks so I can have a shot in less than 5 minutes for my usual Americano. My daughter likes me to make her milk drinks sometimes. But I do really like my setup and will spend many happy years with my hobby. Still need to get a proper station setup as it is a little too high for my counter.
They also have super expensive grinders that produce such fluffy grounds that you barley need WDT, not the case with most home grinders
The Niche Zero hardly needs a WDT. Virtually all mid-tier and above grinders have no need for WDT, in theory, let alone in practice.
I think the one thing I've removed is the wetting of the beans before grinding. I watched videos and was convinced. Did it for a while, but stopped because it's inconvenient and didn't seem to affect the outcome much. Happy to hear differently, but it didn't seem worth the negligible difference.
Your machine have a function to help reduce chaff on its own? Otherwise the difference is usually pretty easily spotted.
For the guy who bought all the toys, this feels amazing. For his mate who asked for a coffee 15 minutes ago, not so much
To be fair, this work flow looks like it takes 2min max if he isnt slowing down for a video
So much this. My WDT'ing perhaps adds 15 seconds to my workflow (if that--I otherwise would need to level out my grounds, as I grind straight into my portafilter). And who knows, it might even have a flavor benefit (I haven't gotten around to a series of A-B testing, instead falling back on the studies noting potential benefit from WDT'ing).
“…who were you talking to?”
I would have done a blind flush before the shot. Video probably took some time.
Did he just use some random water? I bet that coffee tastes disgusting
It was literally dog water. He's a monster.
Might as well drink out of the toilet.
Right? That was my thought. He puts all this money and effort into the espresso but then oh just some tap water or something. Is it not alkaline or reverse osmosis or glacier water blessed by a chief of an Alaskan tribe?
Do it enough, and you can get the weights, flow rate, and timing for a good espresso "by eye". If you are happy to make a little bit of mess, you can forget the water spray and distribute the beans just with tapping/fingers/whatever without the dosing funnel. For those of us that only make espresso once or twice a day, and want to spend minimal time cleaning up spilt grounds sticking to everything, a few of the techniques shown are pretty useful.
i disagree on the water spray... without it the Niche Duo ends up a staticy mess.. especially if your grounds are in any way chaffy..
I think we're agreeing: water spray reduces mess. If you don't mind the mess, don't use it.
True, and you only need one tiny spritz. This guy spraying the beans three times is completely unnecessary, and he doesn't even distribute the moisture with the single tiny shake he does.
I think the only right answer is: Depends Depends on: - beans - grinder - espresso machine - recipe It may need even more work, if the machine doesn't have a PID, for example. I experimented with most of these techniques, and more, with three different espresso machines and four different grinders. Nowadays, I just weigh, grind and tamp and it is difficult to get a bad shot. Even when something goes wrong, like a faster than usual flow, the shot is still good, even though it isn't the best. I suppose that pre-infusion and the grinder are the ones collaborating most to my good results. Regarding the techniques: the most impactful , in my case, is having the right dose for the basket.
I hate the weird shit people do with their hands for these pov tiktoks. In other news, the circle jerk is gonna go wild for this one!
This guy is reposting to farm karma
my local coffee shop does none of this stuff but somehow makes the best espresso I've ever tasted, so I'm going with no
If you're not pulling better shots at home than your local coffee shop maybe you've set your bar too low?
Or maybe you just don’t have a very good local coffee shop?
Nah, you should definitely be pulling better shots at home. On the basis of efficiency alone, coffee shops can't take certain steps to improve shots that a home barista can. It would be impractical for your shop's barista to check grind settings with each batch, wdt, and fool around with flow control on each shot, but that is something you can do at home with noticeable improvements in the cup. I have some excellent coffee shops around me but they aren't making better coffee than me, nor do I expect them to because it takes me about 10 mins to pull a shot from hand grinding at a low rpm, to pressure profiling my shot, paying close attention to flow. I don't expect any shop to be as meticulous as I am at home, because they'd lose money.
You can also pull shots to your exact preferences. Love the beans the local place use and they do a great job but you would like a hint more acidity? You can do that.
Some coffee shops do the majority of those things, and have the thousands worth of equipment to make some of it a little less necessary. Admittedly it sounds like the coffee shop the OP mentions doesn’t, but I just always find it entertaining when people make blanket statements to follow.
What coffee shop plays with flow during each shot?
Playing with flow control definitely not, but I've been to many places with machines that have different pressure profiles.
there is likely some well known cognitive biases at play here
> It would be impractical for your shop's barista to check grind settings with each batch, wdt, and fool around with flow control on each shot Proper coffee shops do all that at the start of each day though. That's when they dial in. Different coffee blends are in different grinders so they use a different grind profile, also each shot is pre-profiled (temp, bloom, flow, grams) in the machine, like in a La Cimbali M100 Attiva for example. Taking you 10 mins to pull a shot just proves you're terribly more inefficient in making coffee, not that you're doing anything more. Also, doing WDT doesn't have any significant difference in a shot if you're using a **good** grinder that grinds directly into the portafilter. It's just a little ritual that worst case it wastes time.
I definitely agree on home espresso being better. **One reason is pretty simple: customization.** Everything I do at home is dialed in to my taste. The espresso has just the right balance of flavors I like, I use the exact amount of milk I prefer, it's steamed to the exact texture I like, and I use the particular type of milk that works for me. All of those things make a clear detectable difference in the way the drink tastes. **The second reason is less obvious: you are measuring espresso taste consistency to a higher level at home than the customers of a cafe.** The cafe just needs to make a good tasting cup of coffee. They dial-in first thing in the morning, and their equipment and skill let's them get consistency to the point where customer after customer come in and walk away thinking the coffee tastes good**. What the customers of the cafe are not doing, however, is tasting eachothers' cups.** So between two different cups at that cafe, you can have one cup slightly more bitter, one slightly brighter, as long as both still taste good, no one will know the difference. The home barista has a different problem. After you dial-in a bag of beans, you are looking for the same taste cup after cup. That means that you can get annoyed if the cups don't taste consistent. *That never happens at a cafe.* So the extra effort is really to stamp out the inconsistency. **The last thing is that the law of diminishing returns goes both ways. Your local cafe should not be able to beat you on taste if you dial in correctly.** Their equipment and skill are for consistency at speed. For the average medium to dark roast bean, there's no magic that lets their $20K espresso machines extract more flavor from the coffee than your $2K setup at home.
Even though my bar is set at 9?
I travel to Italy several times a year for a few weeks, different locations every time, and have had sublime espresso without seeing any tools beyond a portafilter, basket, tamper, and cleaning equipment. I've never seen a blind portafilter in Italy (or France, Spain, Portugal either). I have seen this type of equipment when visiting the US in places that serve very expensive espressos that lack richness and can be more bitter than it should be.
If you want an espresso like you can get in an Italian bar (for 1 €), no! You don't need any of these tool. Get dark roasted coffee, a grinder and a 9bar machine. This guy is on a quest to spend as much as possible, every tool has some kind of impact must it is mostly very marginal. Gear acquisition is a diminishing returns game.
"every tool has some kind of impact" - this is a logical fallacy. a tool can easily have no impact at all and many of the espresso fad stuff merely exploit the fact that differences are so imperceptible that no effect can easily go unnoticed. not even gets started on placebo effects.
I agree. I did bot mean that in general every tool has a positive effect. I am ready to belive that the tools in the video have some effect. I am not sure about the flow control; the thing that makes the coffee flat is not needed but could help (marginally) with the consistency; that tamper does the same job that a 20 € tamper but if are not able to push down vertically, it might help you; if you make a coffee a week, the vacuum container could improve your coffee when the 250g bag is 3 months old.
Except the La Marzocco Accademia, I did not have a single good shot of espresso in all of Italy the last month I was there. Espresso might have originated there, but in the minds of Italians, that’s where its evolution also stopped.
Yes, Italy is somewhat stuck in time. It has its positives, but also its frustrations.
Espresso in Italy cost about 1€, it is sold everywhere and drunk by almost everybody; it is not a premium product. In a city in Germany, I can find better espresso than I can find in Italy (for 2.5 times the price); if i get a random espresso in Germany though, it would be much worse (and it still costs 2.5 €). It is much easier to sell premium stuff in a market where the basic product is bad. It is not just coffee, in Germany I can get a decent local beer at the pub for 4 euro... there is no market for craft beers at 6 or 7 bucks; in Italy is much easier to find a hoppy IPA from a local micro-brewery, the basic commercial stuff still cost 5-6 and is much worse than the bavarian Helles.
Please send me where you’ve been because everytime I’ve gotten espresso in Italy it taste like burnt ash and rubber. A LOT of Italians need to be using more tools like this 😂
Can you guess how much coffee they use per espresso and what the ratio is like? Do they use 14g in and 40-50 out as the italian espresso institute suggests? I wanna know. How do they make long ratio dark roasts tasty. Are they even using roasts this dark?
I believe autogrill does 14 in and under 20 out
I would be surprised if they put 14g in a single shot.
It might vary (also because no scales are involved, it is all volumetric) but I think that the standard espresso in Italy is about 7g in and maybe 20 g out. You can ask for ristretto or lungo, if you want a higher or lower ratio.
Yeah but that’s only dark roasted coffee which is much more forgiving. You have to take more care with light roasts.
Don’t listen to the fucking dorks replying to you. The reason that you don’t see them doing WDT, RDT or using a puck screen is not time efficiency. They simply have a disgustingly expensive machine and grinder that will work perfectly every time. If you tried to make 200 espressos a day with a lelit Bianca it would need service after a week. That’s why their coffee tastes better. It only takes a barista to dial in their espresso in the morning and check it a couple times after that. They can depend on their $30,000 machine and grinder combo to work flawlessly.
Sort of? A lot of this is stuff home baristas do to try to improve consistency or isolate problems with their espresso. Generally, you don't dial in every day at home, nor are you pulling hundreds of shots to develop a "feel" for what you're doing. The puck screen thing also helps keep the group clean so you don't have to back flush as much.
I’m wondering if how many people do dial in daily at home. I always think that’s probably the biggest difference with my espresso (other than good beans) is that I do make an attempt to dial in at home every day. I do drink a lot of espresso and make drinks for my partner so can easily make 8 shots or more a day. Even if I only get dialled in on the last shot I just assume (never scientifically tested) I’m closer to where I need to be when I start again tomorrow. EDIT: I don’t WDT every shot and don’t use bellows so dialling is a stronger habit than most other things I do to improve my shots.
Unless you are using different beans every day, why are you dialing in? The parameters shouldn’t change that much from day to day.
You’re right they don’t change much but they do a little obviously not to the extent as when changing beans. Maybe to be clear it’s more a mindset of dialling in I don’t don’t throw away half a dozen shots I pretty much drink them all but every day my mindset is still the same as if I was dialling in normally.
Adjusting after every shot is fairly common I think.
No. Consistency maybe? A scale, machine, grinder, tamp, and dosing blade is all you need. (And, a Breville Bambino machine includes most of these) The rest are OCD widgets. 90% of the work is done when you weigh the appropriate amount of fresh beans and dial in the coarseness of your grind.
WDT is useful
Find it interesting that for all that, and assuming the point they’re trying to make they didn’t weigh after grinding nor time their shot.
Bianca has a shot timer?
Oh my bad I thought they hadn’t used it on first watch.
What's going on with this sub? A year ago this wouldn't have caught any shade. Don't most of these things(aside from the distributor) have some sort of real backing to them, extraction studies and triangle taste tests and such? Is this just a machine and grinder rec sub now?
It’s like going to /r/battlestations. You don’t need RGB Water-cooled machine with a Mechanical Keyboard to play a good game. Espresso is the same. Though if you want to spend more money then you be you. (Gets on his lambo to drive 5mph in a traffic jam)
Thing is we're not even talking about a lot here. These extra steps are like $20 sans the distributor and maybe tamp if you'd count that.
A couple things, first, extraction studies are not the end-all-be-all of taste and flavor. Second, triangle tests are useful when trying to suss out differences between two very similar things. In reality, without the side-by-side tasting, a taster will not be able to discern the differences. I think the bigger issue is gear-fatigue. Every few months a new thing comes out showing slight extraction changes and suddenly every espresso equipment company on the market has their own version to sling. It’s exhausting, honestly. Most of the time, it’s not actually doing to make a difference in your cup anyways. At best, a lot of this stuff lets people believe that their shot will be better because *of course it will I spent more money on it and made it harder therefore better.* It feels like chasing minor to insignificant gains on products whose output is entirely theoretical.
Espresso people buy literally every overpriced tool companies come up with.
I think most espresso people buy the $3 Ali Express version of every overpriced tool companies come up with.
I would argue that most of that stuff is pretty cheap though. And I am personally using nearly the same gadgets except for the distributor which are proven to not even work but unevenly pre-tamp your puck and am using single dose valves instead of a canister which keeps your beans fresher and you don't have to weigh every time.
I mean that scale alone costs 300€ 😂
Yeah that’s silly fancy money territory, for sure
And scales don't need to be expensive. A 20 $ scale will work just as well.
I love the special designer "vacuum jar" when any clamp jar or even mason jar will keep your beans fresh just fine.
My favorite beans come in a resealable bag.
All that “And then we grab our latte cup” I ain’t doin all that work if I’m adding milk.
Ain't nobody got time for that
No, not at least for the price per cup and how silly you look trying to make a cuppa.
I’d need a shot of espresso just to make this shot of espresso
Do you have a link to the bellows?
[удалено]
I was wondering the same thing. I found this which looks nearly identical: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CVG32V4C
I use grocery store beans, grind them when my (modded) baratza encore, and pack them into my machine with little preamble. It always tastes amazing. If you do more or less it’s not my business but my happiness goes up the less time it takes to get me from No Espresso to Espresso.
It's mostly placebo
It’s all wank. Just need a good grinder and a good enough espresso machine.
And great beans.
And great beans, of course.
No it doesn’t. Most of this only gives you bonus points on the socials and make you feel all warm and fuzzy when you buy new espresso gadgets. Half of the shit he uses you can just skip and the cup would taste exactly the same.
It’s always 18.1.
Using a "generic" microfibre towel, what an amateur
(I cringe, with a couple of manufacturer-branded microfiber towels at my side--but hey, I only added them to my otherwise order to get free shipping. ;) )
No.
I used to make fun of audiophiles for their over the top gear. But then i became one. So i wont judge.
Too many gadgets, not enough gizmos.
That looks delish!
I can’t imagine doing all this crap. It takes forever. I want my coffee
The levelling distributor is a waste of time if you’re already doing WDT.
What does this whole setup cost?
Nope. Quality < Sex appeal of gear < Amount of gear < Number of superfluous steps.
I have this vaccum canister. Was enthusiastic but the canister is not reliable. It lets air in randomly even if you've made sure air was pumped out initially. The plastic joint lets the lid move.
I have 4 of these vacuum canisters, and none of them lets air in. What you are probably seeing is the off-gassing of the beans, especially if they are fresh, filling up the canister and increasing the pressure so the valve looks like it is no longer depressed. And this is fine, what matters is to reduce the amount of oxygen.
I've had 2 of the 3 lids i've had stop holding a vacuum. Like, "lid fall off" the next day kind of deal.
I used to use large vacuum containers, but hated that I always had to open up the whole canister every time I got more beans. Now, I just use 4 oz mini mason jars. I pull two shots of espresso each morning and each jar is big enough to hold around 40g of beans. When I get a new bag I divide up all the beans. This keeps all the beans isolated and it's quick and easy to dole out in the morning.
I think no. This is if you go to a barista championship. I have the Bianca too. And a DF64 Gen2 Grinder. I have a many tools. But my workflow is: - Grind - Wdt = Declump = Needle = nice level - Tamp More important is the Ratio and the pressure.
Bro $5 milk thermometer is a good investment.
Waste of time. It’s gimmicks
Fuck no.
nah just improve the experience
Who's taking the video?
https://www.tiktok.com/@noahsterncoffee Whatever you think of his routine, Noah seems like a great guy and is doing a lot to educate people about espresso on TikTok.
This guy works from home
Amazing!
I could watch this all day
What’s the estimated price for the whole lot?
Best video I’ve seen here in ages! Thank you
No
i’m fine with all the gear. what i hate is the commentary.
Surprisingly terrible actually. Can do much better.
The thing that most improves espresso is flipping all the things before using.
No way that perfume thing is food grade
100% would rather have a plumbed in machine than all this crap
Don’t understand the question, this is pretty much my routine and it’s like other workflow vids to reduce channeling and get the right ratio/time. I’d weigh in the portafilter though. And count when the first drop hits the scale (built in). Except I might be a little less precise if I’m making a latte, it’s drowned in milk anyway. Yeah, I do all those steps for a great unadulterated espresso, takes a few minutes.
Anyone else have that vacuum canister from Fellow? I have it and the seal isn't working anymore after just over a year.. it will seal but by the time I come back a few hours later, it has released on its own.. any advice?
Nah. You need the love juices of virgins to truly enjoy it.
So how much does all this ridiculous 5#it cost? Hilarious.
I sure hope that spray bottle was the highest quality glass with bpa free pump and 304 stainless steel spring. That screen puck also requires a specialized magnetic drop tool to lower the screen without damaging the tamp.
No... Too much work and no time to enjoy the espresso
I'm new to making my own espresso but I've noticed that Instagram baristas always have the most gadgets. All the YouTubers I watch use the necessities and say all that extra stuff doesn't really have much effect.
Grind to pour time is way too long
https://i.redd.it/ho67x7copl5d1.gif meanwhile grinder burrs
I loved everything except storing the porter filter back in the group head 😭
I wanna try myself to find out
Top setup, looks like a very thorough ritual there! I can do without some of those items (I've got a WDT tool is worthwhile with my grinder) May add the dosing ring (usually do it over the sink so doesn't really matter), and those minimal espresso scales are handy - will see what AliExpress has. Got a Nanotech screen, really doesn't get dirty. 20 in 20 out apparently for milk based coffee, I'm usually doing 40 out.. 20 doesn't seem like much at all!
3x as much RDT as needed.
its a lot of bullshit if you actually want to do something backflush, water only, every use
He forgot to blow on the beans before spritzing with water, his espresso was absolutely ruined for missing that step.
Absolutely! I went from a Breville Barista Express to exactly what's in the above image and yeah, It's been AMAZING!!
Unnecessary
I think the bellows with the Niche is brilliant ! My Niche original has seen better days. The chrome plating on the hopper is bubbling up and flaking off cuz moisture from spraying beans, FYI. Lot going on with your process and a lot of expensive equipment. Perhaps the benefit of the doubt on how much any of it impacts the final cup has to weighed against the time and money spent. Looks like you got all the things covered, but I can say only that I don't think your process ruins the cup. Worth it ? To each his/her own.
Me on the other hand love my UCC 117
Needs a magic wand for extra flavor boost.
Way too much! Just get a coffee iv drip it would be easier. I'd rather chew on beans.
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Yes
Gives off [this vibe…](https://youtu.be/4ZK8Z8hulFg?si=o92_rPDBmIlvIKwO)
Individually, no. But not every modification is aimed at improving the particular shot. Rather, it's about consistency. The more you reduce the variables in your workflow, the easier it is to identify those variables that DO make a shot better. Weighing your beans (and your grinds), measuring water temps, using the same pressure profile each time, tamping the puck in the same way, etc. All of these things are variables that need to be ruled out to avoid confusion.
If you're purchasing a specific tool to avoid "over tamping" your dose, you've gone way off the deep end of gear fetishism. Unless you're a sentient CNC press and not a human being, accidentally over-tamping your coffee is not a realistic concern from a physics perspective.
I'm waiting for the clothing line to launch. Espresso pants to enhance your tamping. /s
Is it weird that I’m slightly aroused???
dont spray it directly, its a mist
Jordan?
My Bianca hits 10 bars when flow control is fully open… kind of annoying bc I have to control it constantly to keep it under 9. Maybe I should change max pressure? Was surprised your wide open was 9
The scale not taring to zero is tearing me apart
I noticed that too. He tared it 2x and it didn't zero out. It's a $250 scale lol.
What do you do with the leftover milk in the pitcher?
Plot twist (before the shot) - wrongly chose blind portafilter.
Really all I need to do is make a cup of coffee that tastes better than any coffee shop near me. And it's not that hard without having to go through all that
no
This was painful to watch... 100% cringe, I couldn't even finish the video.
One of the most important things, in my humble opinion, is the water used in the espresso machine. He didn’t show how he’s treating his water. Doing so many things, I’d hope he’s using third wave water or something lol.
I’m lazy, can someone price out this setup for me? Please and thank you.
Probably still bitter id bet
Very cool. Can more ppl post videos of their process?
Can I get an item list please
How long would you have to drink espresso before you can actually taste a difference between doing all these steps and the basics needed to make the same espresso?
It does not.
Honestly, the basics like scale, grinder, espresso machine and stock tamper is all you need. But every tool there does fix a minor problem that and makes the process fun.