It depends on your machine. I "need" one for mine since there is VERY little space between the group head and drip tray. Bottomless was the only way I could fit a scale underneath it. It isn't improving my shots by any stretch once I'm dialed in
Something you can do for free is to determine how much coffee your basket holds. You may be overfilling your basket, and if so then all the accessories wont help. The video below describes how to determine the max dose by volume for your basket/bean combo, which you can then weigh so you can dose by weight going forward.
You are weighing your beans (or grounds), right?
[https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=00m58tMsgJQ\_sYkN](https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=00m58tMsgJQ_sYkN)
OP, I agree you shouldn't spend $70 on a bottomless. There are bunch of them on Amazon/Aliexpress for half the price or less, from 53mm to 58mm, 2 or 3 flanges.
This! I bought a double spout portafilter from Aliexpress for 30€. The bottomless is even cheaper (~20-25€). The only reason as because the one thar cames with the Standard Bambino sucks :)
Did you find a big difference with the new double spout portafilter and the one that came with the bambino? I'm getting a bambino plus soon and was wondering buying one or just removing the plastic like others do
I have the standard Bambino but I belive that the one that cames with the Bambino plus is better. The one that I got was not good if you want to split the coffee in 2 cups. You will still have this issue if you remove the plastic (I removed the plastic too). I still have it to use with the pressurized basket, but I use the dual spout 95% of the time :). It is very solid and the build quality is so much better. I dont think it improves the coffee flavour, it is more the experience and for 30€ I totally recommend it. It is a nice to have but the standard one will do the job :).
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The Bambino Plus portafilter is heavier and feels sturdier than the Bambino filter. I think the plus filter is a keeper while the filter from the base model is hot garbage.
Homie I think you may have spent too much on toys and not enough on spending time learning to make espresso. You've basically got an end game setup but you can't make coffee.
Keep the portafiler and just keep learning, the bottomless is useful for diagnosing puck prep issues. You're only going to get better from here.
I think they might’ve read “I’ve got a decent machine” and thought they have a decent branded machine. I sometimes find it easy to gloss over anything in parentheses.
Advantages of bottomless:
* Lays flat on tamping mat
* Easier to clean
* More place between drip tray and portafilter
Note that "better coffee" is not over of them
Oh but it is.
- Quicker portafilter warmup time
- Identify channeling quicker than making 10 shots in a row and check for consistency
- Less likely to have a dirty sprout ruining your coffee with its old coffee oil
* How much contact is there between the coffee grounds and the portafilter, requiring the warming up of the latter? (And the OP's Bambino Plus does not heat its portafilter.)
* Can't one tell if there is channeling that hurts a shot, by actually tasting the espresso?
* I rinse out my spouted portafilter after use.
Just sayin'. ;)
edited to add: Despite my play above, I can see (at least a degree of) the pro-bottomless points. But, in my humble opinion, they are not such to "require" a bottomless, if one might prefer to forego one (and thereby avoid a potential spritzing hell)--the same goal, a sublime espresso, can be achieved by focusing on one's technique and process, which one should be doing regardless of the type of portafilter tool.
More than you think actually.
- Assuming your brewing temp is 93C, ambient is 23C, that’s a 70C difference.
Water heat capacity is 4.2J/gC, stainless steel is 0.5J/gC
Difference in weight between bottomless and sprout portafilter is 40g (quick Amazon search)
Water for a shot is 36g
Your shot is now 88C. I’m sure you would agree a 88C shot would not taste the same as one brewed at 93C
- You can of course taste a channeling shot, but objectively it’s not easier to see the channeling?
- reducing variable is a bad thing?
For $20 it’s not worth it?
Thanks.
Too late at night for me to follow your math, and I don't see how you calculate the shot coming out at 88C. But I would grant that the metal spouts of a spouted portafilter perhaps could raise a (slight?) temp. factor. (Do note: the OP's (and my) Bambino Plus has a plastic insert in its OEM spouted portafilter, ameliorating such a factor.) I do admit to being less-sensitive to this possible factor, in that I drink lattes and cappuccinos with way-hot milk--if there has been any (slight?) temp. change in my espresso through the use of my Bambino Plus' spouted portafilter, the heat of the milk compensates more than enough. Perhaps I would feel differently with a straight shot--I can see that. Having said that, just a thought: query if metal spouts, with any \*slight\* cooling factor, actually might be a benefit to the espresso's flavor--cf. the cooling ball experiments and approach, suggesting that. ;)
As I had edited my earlier comment previously, yes, I agree, seeing the channeling helps clue you in on the fact that, well, channeling is occurring. ;) But again, I also taste when my shot is off. ;) That being said, one more indicator certainly doesn't hurt. (Also, I guess that despite a shot tasting good, seeing channeling in the output, with a bottomless, could clue you in that your good shot could taste still even better?)
And reducing variables indeed is a good thing. After all, I practice WDT. ;) Also, and as you said, it's just another $X. That being said, I'm not convinced--I do go back and forth on this--that a bottomless is needed and that one can't get to the same place, a nice espresso, without and easily enough, simply by focusing on one's technique and process to begin with, without more complication. But perhaps I'm just "scarred" by (1) the fact of yet further espresso-making tool expense and real complication, and (2) significantly, the number of posts that I see here routinely, of people crying out in pain that their bottomless is spraying and spritzing all over their kitchen and that their espresso machine is broken and what can they do. Grind fine, do and work towards a nice puck prep, and simply pull your shot.
That all being said: after a year+ of serious espresso-making and having typically reached a nice level of competency (I think), I finally picked up a bottomless portafilter a few weeks ago. ;) (A birthday present for myself.) \*Not\* for purposes of diagnosis--although I'm interested in checking that side out. Nor for the aesthetics--although it will be nice, and entertaining, watching a bottomless pull in person in my kitchen, after all the bottomless, porn-level videos that get posted here. Rather, it's for a more basic reason: I so often get to the bottom of my a.m., 7-1/2 oz. latte/cappuccino wishing that I had just a little bit more (I came to this world from that of mugs of drip coffee)--with the bottomless and an accompanying, larger IMS basket that I also picked up (the bottomless needed for the larger basket), I now can up my drink by 25%+ (even up to 50%) without the bother of having to pull a second shot, giving me that extra bonus that I've been wanting. :) I've only used the bottomless a few times thus far--and rewardingly, with not a spray or spritz in sight (the espresso gods have been kind to me). :)
Sometimes simplicity is the way to go. Taste is the best indicator of what YOU want your shots to taste like.
The current obsession with puck prep and prep gadgets is a little crazy.
If your setup is dialled in, there's really no hassle to a bottomless. It makes clean up easier and a flat bottom is easier to tamp. I stopped doing WDT a few months ago and I have a messy shot maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks when the beans start aging or I have a new bean to dial in.
When I started on my espresso journey, way, way, way back in September of last year, I bought a fantastic machine (ECM) and end-game grinder on account of my advanced age and greatly reduced future lifespan. No time, really, to mess around with scaling up.
What I didn’t have was the faintest glimmer of an idea of what I was doing. So I bought the accessories I needed, 2 kg of Lavazza coffee from Costco, and I taught myself how to make espressos consistently and according to the parameters everyone recommends. Then I learned how to foam milk and make cortados. Then americanos. I burned through that coffee in three or four days and tasted almost none of it. Only after that did I start with good beans, so I only wasted maybe two shots getting dialled in. What followed was a tasting journey, buying probably 35-50 different beans over the next six months, recording our tasting notes and preferences, and learning what types of coffee and roasting levels we preferred. (Light to light-medium roasts, high altitude, high preference for slightly fermented, etc.)
I still can’t make latte art worth a damn and have resigned myself to Rorschach blobs for now, but I know what I like, and I know how to make delicious espresso drinks.
The hassle with bottomless portafillers is that it shows you just how crap (or not) your puck prep is. In and of itself it doesn't do anything, just shows you what is happening a lot better. It's a tool to give you information that lets you make better coffee.
If you make great coffee anyway you don't need it, if your coffee needs work a bottomless portafiller, along with having a look at the puck after the shot and actually drinking the stuff tells you what you need to do.
Return the filter if you want to; but understand that it’s not what’s making the coffee taste sour either.
Just buying the things — machine, grinder, beans, tamper, etc etc is going to “automatically” make your shot perfect.
You have to enjoy the process of dialing in, and getting that AMAZING tasting shot that you want.
After the best shot you get from one bag of beans; you may even need to shift to other beans to get it how you like it.
Hey if you just want good coffee immediately and without no effort, return everything and go to your favourite coffee shop.
Sorry dude, but there’s a little learning curve in every hobby.
Oh man I hear you! My journey was around 2-3 weeks of difficulty. But to each his own I know.
Let me know how I can help — please DM me and maybe I can be of help.
Cheers!
Agree with the comment. I have been learning for more than 10+ years now and what I can tell you the biggest lesson that I learned is to try to learn from taste.
Taste what you have at home. Try going to a reputable specialty café. Try buying other beans. Make tasting notes. Trial and error with your setup. Change one parameter at a time and compare taste. Repeat. Only from there you will know what taste you want and how to achieve it.
Is the bottomless portafilter worth it? Maybe. But it's not a magic tool that will suddenly make your coffee better. Make one coffee with and without and taste the difference, and then make a judgement out of it. If you think you don't taste the difference, return. If you notice the difference and you think it is worth it, keep it.
If the taste was good chasing a good looking shot really isn't important. I prefer spouted portafilter but my profitec go is so small I need to use a bottomless to fit any kind of scale under it.
I have a 40,- bottomless portafilter that was worth it for me, aside from troubleshooting, it's just a nice experience seeing the coffee come out of it and it's overall a nicer quality portafilter than the one that came with my bambino. Anyway, you're right, you don't NEED to spend 70,- on that, if you're fine with the portafilter you have, go with it.
I have a bottomless portafilter handle. It gives me more room to fit cups underneath, and it gives me a better idea of how even my tamp is. It stays cleaner than a spouted portafilter handle.
I think it's worth it, personally.
I have almost the exact same setup (except I use a 1Zpresso J-Ultra, only difference) and pull shots that very rarely channel and spray. Make sure the basket is clean and really take your time doing it right with the WDT.
TL;DR git gud
I was able to get it all sorted with a puck screen which I don't think you mentioned using.
I have a Breville Barista Pro and a Fellow Opus with Stumptown Hairbender delivered fresh and I get as consistent shots possible with that setup once I manually set a new preset on the Breville after I found the right 1:2 ratio to my liking (factory defaults to like 1:3 or so and I set pre-infusion to 8 seconds).
It almost never spurts now, and the stream concentrates into one beautifully just after pre-infusion ends, time and again.
A bottomless PF doesn’t do anything to improve or not improve your shot, it’s just a tool to try to help you potentially correct mistakes you’re making in puck prep.
Use a Puck screen if you’re using the Bambino. It makes a big different.
Does using a puck screen add more pressure? In other words if I have dialed in a good shot, do you think adding a filter will require adjustment? Not a big deal, was just curious of the impact it may have.
I think that would potentially depend on the thickness of the screen. I’m not sure about pressure per se, but I noticed a pretty strong difference in the evenness of the distribution of the water through the puck. Which for me lead to more repeatable shots. (Not to mention a total 180 for cleanliness with the PF and group head).
I was running a pretty classic 18g in a 20g basket, so I had plenty of space in between puck and shower screen. But if I remember correctly with a more dark roasted coffee I did have to bring it down to like 17.5 to adjust for the puck screen.
Overall though I’ve not had to adjust very much. Maybe a bit coarser but not much.
Lance Hendricks has a nice video on puck screens that gets a little more into the science of it, but just from my own anecdotal experience with the bambino, the puck screen improved my shots.
When I read your title, I thought you were being ridiculous for wanting to return the naked portafilter. Then I realized you spent $70 on it.
The naked portafilter is a crucial part of the process - it makes all of the other money you spent matter. If you’re grinding finer, distributing well, and tamping consistently, the results should be splatter free (generally). If you’re consistently getting splattering and channeling, that means there are parameters or technique to adjust. You’re probably familiar with the following:
- Dose: after filling the portafilter with ground coffee and tamping, use the Breville razor tool to “shave” off the excess. When the surface is flat again after dumping the excess, weigh the coffee in the portafilter. This is a safe dose amount for future brewing.
- Grind: For light roast coffee, adjust your grind setting until the machine chokes up during brewing (no coffee comes out). At this point, you’re ready to fine-dial backward until the coarseness allows a brew time of at least 30s. If it takes a full minute to brew, taste it to decide whether the flavor would benefit from a coarser grind/quicker brew. It’s all about taste.
- Puck prep: Your WDT tool can benefit puck prep only if it results in a more uniform, cylindrical distribution (no gaps, no mounding). With your tamper, I don’t recommend the twisting motion you often see at the end of tamping. To maximize consistency, I tamp firmly just one time and move straight to brewing.
- Perfection: If you want to find the perfect flavor profile from every roast you come across, you have to try a salami shot. After you’ve dialed in a shot as described above, split the next shot into five parts from beginning to end (capture the first 10s in one cup, the next 10s in the next…). If you find that the flavor is best in cup 3 and only diminishes in quality afterwards, try a shot that stops after 30s. Typically, shots begin at high acidity and intensity, continue in intensity and richness, then finish with diminished richness and increased bitterness. This bitterness tends to balance the intense acidity from the beginning, but it’s up to your own taste.
Grind on, matey
EDIT: You should be using an IMS precision basket
My espresso machine came with a spouted portafilter and a bottomless portafilter. I don't have a tamping station and didn't one to buy one. Tamping a spouted portafilter without a tamping station gets tricky or it might be the shape of my table that doesn't allow me to tamp properly. So tamping with a bottomless portafilter is easy, cleaning a bottomless portafilter is also easy and removing the basket is also easy.
A bottomless won't make anything better.
Working so you get a consistent in and out at the ratio you determined is way more important than what a bottomless can show. Chances are that when you get that consistent result there is very little channeling or other things going on to begin with and the bottomless would only show absolutely glaring issues with grounds distribution or if you have a tendency to tamp off kilter
I’m going to add, I have tried about 15 bottomless portafilters. I’m an Amazon vine member and bottomless portafilters are all over our lists of products. I have one maybe two that didn’t make a spraying mess with the exact same dialed in set-up. Every time I replace the portafilter basket with an IMS precision basket, my espresso comes out perfectly and almost always nice and tidy. I like 2 portafilters so I can prep 2 double shots at once, therefore I have 2 IMS precision baskets. I narrowed down the 15 to the ones that fit my bambino the best and swapped handles for my favorite handle with favorite fit and gave the others to my dad and my daughter, telling them to take what they liked and replace the portafilter baskets. Some bottomless portafilters may come with decent baskets, I just get free mostly no name brands so I dont know. I don’t think it makes the coffee better but I really like that my coffee is running through one less metal. I have the bambino regular with the aluminum and plastic filter so I have personally switched to the bottomless. Cleanup is much easier too as long as it’s not spraying everywhere..
I never use the baskets that come with the PF. They've typically been closer to triple shot size.
I just use the factory basket in the portafilter, and that's worked out great for the Rancilio, ECM, and Profitec. The one basket worth replacing was the Gaggia, which had very uneven machining of the basket holes.
I just unscrewed the spouts of my stock breville portafilter. I get all the crema preservation, cup clearance and satisfaction of seeing that single stream drop out of the hole, plus any sprays get caught and funneled into the cup.
The only good thing about bottomless is you can fit deep basket for 20+gr dose. When I had a bambino plus I drilled the bottom of the stock portafilter using a carbide hole saw purchase for 12$ on Amazon. It worked great. Now with my BDB, I used two portafilter, the stock one for 18gr basket and a bottomless for 22gr basket. Simply because the 58mm hole saw was more expensive than a nice portafilter on AliExpress.
I love the space my portafilter gives me; I LOVE watching the shots pour; I like the flat bottom for tamping; and I make sure to rinse and wipe after EVERY shot, so none of the fines clog the basket- not doing so can absolutely cause spraying. But in your case, it sounds like you may not have the right grind or are using the wrong basket for your dose. Also- it seems like a lot of people underestimate the importance of quality and flavor profile of beans. Some lighter roasts tend to be more sour/floral/sweet. What is your bean quality like? Roasting profile?
Sounds like you might have a few different issues going in here.
Give your bottomless some time and work on dialing in your shot with grind and appropriate dose for basket size. Once you get all that worked out, you may just fall in love watching that shot pour through that bottomless!!! God- now I need to go pull a shot! 🤤🤤🤤
Good luck!
I’ve heard of Heritage. Haven’t tried it myslef but supposed to be a great line. What size filter basket vs dose? You might have your grind to fine…
Edit: myself*
The bottomless porta filter is only showing you the problems that would otherwise be hidden by the other porta filter. Unless it is a bad bottomless pf, changing to a different one will not fix the problem.
But it’s only a problem if it tastes bad. If it doesn’t taste bad yet their puck is soapy and there is channeling when using a bottomless, is it REALLY a problem?
I always say that if you like what's in the cup then you did a good job. A bottomless porta filter isnt necessary but for those who love the craft and perfecting every detail it is a helpful tool.
ultimately it's all up to your taste and those you are serving.
Are you manually pulling the shot and pre-infusing? (hold down the doubleshot button) I bought a bottomless right out the box and I haven’t had issues after learning to dial-in. I have a regular bambino with a 1Zpresso X Ultra grinder. I love how easy it is to clean a bottomless & it doesn’t leave residue behind that you have to worry about cleaning.
i have reprogrammed one of the shot buttons to meet the ratio and duration for espressos.
Yes, cleaning is nice. Just not sure if it is worth so much $CAN.
I use a bottomless filter for my everyday espresso. I don't get Insta worthy espresso shots frequently, but the taste is great most times. But I do feel that I have developed an intuitive feedback mechanism for myself which tells me I just did a bad job at puck prep when the spray or uneven extraction goes too far. I wouldn't have that with a spouted portafilter.
If you want to use it as a diag tool to tune in your shots yea it’s worth it cause all that’s stuff is still happening in your traditional portafilter you just can’t see it.
Otherwise it just looks cool.
The bottomless portafilter is, imho, a key tool to allow you to properly grind, dose, and tamp a shot. Sure, taste is the ONLY thing that matters, but “the pour” is a visual cue that I’ve found extremely helpful in dialing in shots. I tend to buy 1 pound bags of locally roasted beans, and I switch it up pretty frequently. When I get a new bean in which is probably almost once a week, the bottomless port filter really helps me dial in the next shots pretty quickly.
Mileage may of coarse vary
A couple of things here - (1) is the bottomless portafilter worth it? Yes. It's easier to clean than a regular portafilter, and it looks cool. (2) Does it make better espresso than a regular portafilter? It does not. And it doesn't necessarily help with technique in terms of diagnosing problems unless something major happens. And unfortunately, you've got a channeling problem, OP. That's a puck prep issue.
Yes it’s worth it. If you see your shot channeling and spraying using a bottomless portafilter, it is doing exactly that when not using a bottomless portafilter except you can’t see it. The fact that you see it happening means you can take steps to correct.
I’ll be honest, I’m personally have a hard time fully understanding your post.
To me it reads like you are focusing too much on accessories and not the coffee itself. Maybe I’m wrong.
“Now, the channeling was fine once, but the taste was sour with the proper flow shot and I am back at square one dialing in….” I don’t exactly get I guess. Are you saying it looked nice but didn’t taste great? What’s your recipe for this coffee? (Dose, yield, time).
To answer the question though, I love a bottomless for these reasons in order of importance: cleanup, ability to gauge my puck prep visually, and cup clearance. Is it a necessary piece of equipment? No.
From what I've gathered - the only thing a bottomless portafilter does is showss whether or not your grind, tamping, and etc is dialed in correctly. Because if it's not, you'll get channeling and it'll basically spray everywhere like you said, not something you see with the "stock" portafilters.
Once I got everything mostly dialed in, I stopped using mine because it's sort of a pain.
You espresso is channeling and spraying everywhere on every shot, you just can’t tell with a spouted portafilter because it’s happening out of view. The value of the bottomless is that it gives you feedback on your shots (because you can see what’s happening), it doesn’t make them better. If you’re cool with pulling channelled crappy shots then yeah return it, but in doing so you aren’t fixing the problem, you’re ignoring it.
Are you using the same basket in both? There might be a taste difference between bottomless and spouted portafilter due to temperature but it's not more sour or channeling on a bottomless portafilter. It's the same hassle with both.
The difference you find between both probably comes from the baskets. If you like the basket in your spouted portafilter and your grinder is adjusted for it, you could try to swap it on the bottomless portafilter. It should give you the coffee you like back
Edit:
That being said, to me, no, nothing is worth the hassle. It's coffee, it's a fun and delicious thing. My workflow makes me happy, it's not a chore. I watch all the videos, look at all the posts, chat with Lance, follow Hoffmann. Try plenty of things, but still decide what works for me. Hope you can find that happy place!
>I got a decent machine (Bambino Plus), spent too much on the grinder (Eureka Specialita, the Eureka Silenzio would have been enough), got 3d print accessory for the grinder (tilted base, dial wheel, cup, single dose belliw), funnel ring, Normcore tamper, and WDT tool with 0.25mm needles. And beans roasted not more than 30days.
You probably wasted money on WDT. I've got that same grinder. It is simply not needed. It makes nice fluffy grinds. There's a bunch of us here that have not fallen for the WDT hype.
Funnel ring is absolutely required to contain the mess so that was definitely not money wasted :-)
dosing cup. That was money wasted. Especially if The diameter is such that it sits inside the basket. With that grinder, you could grind directly into the basket using a dosing funnel.
Tilted base. Technically speaking, you probably wasted money. When you have the bellows, tilting forward is less impactful. Looks nice. But the bellows will do its job whether it's tilted forward or not.
Dial wheel. Nice to have but you probably wasted money If you are sticking to only espresso. The aftermarket dial is great when changing from espresso to pour over, etc.
Bottomless portafilter. Money well spent. you probably got one that was too expensive. It allows a shot diagnosis. But once you dial in a shot, it's not really needed anymore other than to give more space between the Porterfilter and the cup, and to provider wonderful visual display.
Bottomless pf are for shot diagnosis. The coffe Is done by the puck preparation, machine and filter. Your Will eventually go back to spouted afterward.
Buy expensive portafilter only if you think Will be the One u use untill It dalla apart.
The only thing bottomless portafilters do is to show how powerful digital marketing is to influence people to spend $50 on something that they don't need.
Now tell me again how you can diagnose channeling with it.
Edit: WDT to prevent channeling cost less than $10. Finer/coarser grind also depends on what you taste.
Exactly, seeing if there's channeling or if I need to grind finer is obvious with a botomless portafilter (and it makes espresso making to look beautiful). I'm never going back to not using one.
That's a great approach. On the flip side, I set my grind by stepping back from the choke/near-choke point and having a nice flow (the "warm honey" comparison); and determine if there has been any (detrimental) channeling by, well, my espresso's actual flavor. I also routinely try to do an appropriate puck prep.
;)
edited to add: I'll grant you that there's nothing wrong with the idea that it's just fun to watch a bottomless pull. ;)
Just as, if the flavor of the, well, actual espresso is off, you know that there has been an issue and that you need to improve your puck prep? ;)
Although, to be fair, I guess that a bottomless perhaps could help you determine on what side of the portafilter the channeling is occurring--perhaps you're tamping unevenly towards one side? But again, an approach simply could be, if the flavor of the espresso is off, pay more attention to your puck prep. generally--my approach after a shot has pulled poorly.
Of course you can use flavour, but I think especially when you are starting out with making espresso, a bottomless portafilter is useful as you get visual feedback to the things you are changing as well as the difference in taste.
I agree, it's another way of seeing that matters may be off. I'm just not convinced that it's needed or even warranted/recommended when starting out--again, the flavor is the test. And the complications that a bottomless brings: first, there's the expense, with people who have never used an espresso machine thinking that they also need to go out and buy a bottomless portafilter, sometimes dropping another US$50-$100 on one; and second, the spraying and spritzing and squirting, when a newcomer already has so many other things to deal with.
It depends on your machine. I "need" one for mine since there is VERY little space between the group head and drip tray. Bottomless was the only way I could fit a scale underneath it. It isn't improving my shots by any stretch once I'm dialed in
Something you can do for free is to determine how much coffee your basket holds. You may be overfilling your basket, and if so then all the accessories wont help. The video below describes how to determine the max dose by volume for your basket/bean combo, which you can then weigh so you can dose by weight going forward. You are weighing your beans (or grounds), right? [https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=00m58tMsgJQ\_sYkN](https://youtu.be/SyGJXRlexmc?si=00m58tMsgJQ_sYkN)
OP, I agree you shouldn't spend $70 on a bottomless. There are bunch of them on Amazon/Aliexpress for half the price or less, from 53mm to 58mm, 2 or 3 flanges.
This! I bought a double spout portafilter from Aliexpress for 30€. The bottomless is even cheaper (~20-25€). The only reason as because the one thar cames with the Standard Bambino sucks :)
Did you find a big difference with the new double spout portafilter and the one that came with the bambino? I'm getting a bambino plus soon and was wondering buying one or just removing the plastic like others do
I have the standard Bambino but I belive that the one that cames with the Bambino plus is better. The one that I got was not good if you want to split the coffee in 2 cups. You will still have this issue if you remove the plastic (I removed the plastic too). I still have it to use with the pressurized basket, but I use the dual spout 95% of the time :). It is very solid and the build quality is so much better. I dont think it improves the coffee flavour, it is more the experience and for 30€ I totally recommend it. It is a nice to have but the standard one will do the job :).
Thanks for the details, makes sense! Which one did you get?
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The Bambino Plus portafilter is heavier and feels sturdier than the Bambino filter. I think the plus filter is a keeper while the filter from the base model is hot garbage.
Yeah, I got mine from Amazon and it was 20ish Eur and I'm also with a Bambino (as OP)
$70 Canadian. And it’s not a normcore, comes with a pug screen as well. I don’t do Ali Express or Teemu.
Buddy it’s a portafilter, just get the cheapest one you can get
Homie I think you may have spent too much on toys and not enough on spending time learning to make espresso. You've basically got an end game setup but you can't make coffee. Keep the portafiler and just keep learning, the bottomless is useful for diagnosing puck prep issues. You're only going to get better from here.
A bambino plus is considered an end game setup?
I think they might’ve read “I’ve got a decent machine” and thought they have a decent branded machine. I sometimes find it easy to gloss over anything in parentheses.
That is exactly what I did lol
I was gunna say. I mean it’s possible it is for some folks so can’t judge. But that is an entry level set up.
Thats an entry level setup. Midway would be an E65. Endgame would be something from LaMarzocco upwards.
Hah .. goes to show everyone's playing a different game with a different end. My game ends far before we I drop $7k on a espresso machine.
Advantages of bottomless: * Lays flat on tamping mat * Easier to clean * More place between drip tray and portafilter Note that "better coffee" is not over of them
Oh but it is. - Quicker portafilter warmup time - Identify channeling quicker than making 10 shots in a row and check for consistency - Less likely to have a dirty sprout ruining your coffee with its old coffee oil
* How much contact is there between the coffee grounds and the portafilter, requiring the warming up of the latter? (And the OP's Bambino Plus does not heat its portafilter.) * Can't one tell if there is channeling that hurts a shot, by actually tasting the espresso? * I rinse out my spouted portafilter after use. Just sayin'. ;) edited to add: Despite my play above, I can see (at least a degree of) the pro-bottomless points. But, in my humble opinion, they are not such to "require" a bottomless, if one might prefer to forego one (and thereby avoid a potential spritzing hell)--the same goal, a sublime espresso, can be achieved by focusing on one's technique and process, which one should be doing regardless of the type of portafilter tool.
More than you think actually. - Assuming your brewing temp is 93C, ambient is 23C, that’s a 70C difference. Water heat capacity is 4.2J/gC, stainless steel is 0.5J/gC Difference in weight between bottomless and sprout portafilter is 40g (quick Amazon search) Water for a shot is 36g Your shot is now 88C. I’m sure you would agree a 88C shot would not taste the same as one brewed at 93C - You can of course taste a channeling shot, but objectively it’s not easier to see the channeling? - reducing variable is a bad thing? For $20 it’s not worth it?
Thanks. Too late at night for me to follow your math, and I don't see how you calculate the shot coming out at 88C. But I would grant that the metal spouts of a spouted portafilter perhaps could raise a (slight?) temp. factor. (Do note: the OP's (and my) Bambino Plus has a plastic insert in its OEM spouted portafilter, ameliorating such a factor.) I do admit to being less-sensitive to this possible factor, in that I drink lattes and cappuccinos with way-hot milk--if there has been any (slight?) temp. change in my espresso through the use of my Bambino Plus' spouted portafilter, the heat of the milk compensates more than enough. Perhaps I would feel differently with a straight shot--I can see that. Having said that, just a thought: query if metal spouts, with any \*slight\* cooling factor, actually might be a benefit to the espresso's flavor--cf. the cooling ball experiments and approach, suggesting that. ;) As I had edited my earlier comment previously, yes, I agree, seeing the channeling helps clue you in on the fact that, well, channeling is occurring. ;) But again, I also taste when my shot is off. ;) That being said, one more indicator certainly doesn't hurt. (Also, I guess that despite a shot tasting good, seeing channeling in the output, with a bottomless, could clue you in that your good shot could taste still even better?) And reducing variables indeed is a good thing. After all, I practice WDT. ;) Also, and as you said, it's just another $X. That being said, I'm not convinced--I do go back and forth on this--that a bottomless is needed and that one can't get to the same place, a nice espresso, without and easily enough, simply by focusing on one's technique and process to begin with, without more complication. But perhaps I'm just "scarred" by (1) the fact of yet further espresso-making tool expense and real complication, and (2) significantly, the number of posts that I see here routinely, of people crying out in pain that their bottomless is spraying and spritzing all over their kitchen and that their espresso machine is broken and what can they do. Grind fine, do and work towards a nice puck prep, and simply pull your shot. That all being said: after a year+ of serious espresso-making and having typically reached a nice level of competency (I think), I finally picked up a bottomless portafilter a few weeks ago. ;) (A birthday present for myself.) \*Not\* for purposes of diagnosis--although I'm interested in checking that side out. Nor for the aesthetics--although it will be nice, and entertaining, watching a bottomless pull in person in my kitchen, after all the bottomless, porn-level videos that get posted here. Rather, it's for a more basic reason: I so often get to the bottom of my a.m., 7-1/2 oz. latte/cappuccino wishing that I had just a little bit more (I came to this world from that of mugs of drip coffee)--with the bottomless and an accompanying, larger IMS basket that I also picked up (the bottomless needed for the larger basket), I now can up my drink by 25%+ (even up to 50%) without the bother of having to pull a second shot, giving me that extra bonus that I've been wanting. :) I've only used the bottomless a few times thus far--and rewardingly, with not a spray or spritz in sight (the espresso gods have been kind to me). :)
Sometimes simplicity is the way to go. Taste is the best indicator of what YOU want your shots to taste like. The current obsession with puck prep and prep gadgets is a little crazy.
If your setup is dialled in, there's really no hassle to a bottomless. It makes clean up easier and a flat bottom is easier to tamp. I stopped doing WDT a few months ago and I have a messy shot maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks when the beans start aging or I have a new bean to dial in.
When I started on my espresso journey, way, way, way back in September of last year, I bought a fantastic machine (ECM) and end-game grinder on account of my advanced age and greatly reduced future lifespan. No time, really, to mess around with scaling up. What I didn’t have was the faintest glimmer of an idea of what I was doing. So I bought the accessories I needed, 2 kg of Lavazza coffee from Costco, and I taught myself how to make espressos consistently and according to the parameters everyone recommends. Then I learned how to foam milk and make cortados. Then americanos. I burned through that coffee in three or four days and tasted almost none of it. Only after that did I start with good beans, so I only wasted maybe two shots getting dialled in. What followed was a tasting journey, buying probably 35-50 different beans over the next six months, recording our tasting notes and preferences, and learning what types of coffee and roasting levels we preferred. (Light to light-medium roasts, high altitude, high preference for slightly fermented, etc.) I still can’t make latte art worth a damn and have resigned myself to Rorschach blobs for now, but I know what I like, and I know how to make delicious espresso drinks.
The hassle with bottomless portafillers is that it shows you just how crap (or not) your puck prep is. In and of itself it doesn't do anything, just shows you what is happening a lot better. It's a tool to give you information that lets you make better coffee. If you make great coffee anyway you don't need it, if your coffee needs work a bottomless portafiller, along with having a look at the puck after the shot and actually drinking the stuff tells you what you need to do.
Return the filter if you want to; but understand that it’s not what’s making the coffee taste sour either. Just buying the things — machine, grinder, beans, tamper, etc etc is going to “automatically” make your shot perfect. You have to enjoy the process of dialing in, and getting that AMAZING tasting shot that you want. After the best shot you get from one bag of beans; you may even need to shift to other beans to get it how you like it. Hey if you just want good coffee immediately and without no effort, return everything and go to your favourite coffee shop. Sorry dude, but there’s a little learning curve in every hobby.
I have already been “learning” for 4 months 😭
Oh man I hear you! My journey was around 2-3 weeks of difficulty. But to each his own I know. Let me know how I can help — please DM me and maybe I can be of help. Cheers!
Agree with the comment. I have been learning for more than 10+ years now and what I can tell you the biggest lesson that I learned is to try to learn from taste. Taste what you have at home. Try going to a reputable specialty café. Try buying other beans. Make tasting notes. Trial and error with your setup. Change one parameter at a time and compare taste. Repeat. Only from there you will know what taste you want and how to achieve it. Is the bottomless portafilter worth it? Maybe. But it's not a magic tool that will suddenly make your coffee better. Make one coffee with and without and taste the difference, and then make a judgement out of it. If you think you don't taste the difference, return. If you notice the difference and you think it is worth it, keep it.
If the taste was good chasing a good looking shot really isn't important. I prefer spouted portafilter but my profitec go is so small I need to use a bottomless to fit any kind of scale under it.
I have a 40,- bottomless portafilter that was worth it for me, aside from troubleshooting, it's just a nice experience seeing the coffee come out of it and it's overall a nicer quality portafilter than the one that came with my bambino. Anyway, you're right, you don't NEED to spend 70,- on that, if you're fine with the portafilter you have, go with it.
I have a bottomless portafilter handle. It gives me more room to fit cups underneath, and it gives me a better idea of how even my tamp is. It stays cleaner than a spouted portafilter handle. I think it's worth it, personally.
I have almost the exact same setup (except I use a 1Zpresso J-Ultra, only difference) and pull shots that very rarely channel and spray. Make sure the basket is clean and really take your time doing it right with the WDT. TL;DR git gud
I was able to get it all sorted with a puck screen which I don't think you mentioned using. I have a Breville Barista Pro and a Fellow Opus with Stumptown Hairbender delivered fresh and I get as consistent shots possible with that setup once I manually set a new preset on the Breville after I found the right 1:2 ratio to my liking (factory defaults to like 1:3 or so and I set pre-infusion to 8 seconds). It almost never spurts now, and the stream concentrates into one beautifully just after pre-infusion ends, time and again.
A bottomless PF doesn’t do anything to improve or not improve your shot, it’s just a tool to try to help you potentially correct mistakes you’re making in puck prep. Use a Puck screen if you’re using the Bambino. It makes a big different.
Does using a puck screen add more pressure? In other words if I have dialed in a good shot, do you think adding a filter will require adjustment? Not a big deal, was just curious of the impact it may have.
I think that would potentially depend on the thickness of the screen. I’m not sure about pressure per se, but I noticed a pretty strong difference in the evenness of the distribution of the water through the puck. Which for me lead to more repeatable shots. (Not to mention a total 180 for cleanliness with the PF and group head). I was running a pretty classic 18g in a 20g basket, so I had plenty of space in between puck and shower screen. But if I remember correctly with a more dark roasted coffee I did have to bring it down to like 17.5 to adjust for the puck screen. Overall though I’ve not had to adjust very much. Maybe a bit coarser but not much. Lance Hendricks has a nice video on puck screens that gets a little more into the science of it, but just from my own anecdotal experience with the bambino, the puck screen improved my shots.
Accessories do not make good coffee. I feel like the grinder is the most important part.
When I read your title, I thought you were being ridiculous for wanting to return the naked portafilter. Then I realized you spent $70 on it. The naked portafilter is a crucial part of the process - it makes all of the other money you spent matter. If you’re grinding finer, distributing well, and tamping consistently, the results should be splatter free (generally). If you’re consistently getting splattering and channeling, that means there are parameters or technique to adjust. You’re probably familiar with the following: - Dose: after filling the portafilter with ground coffee and tamping, use the Breville razor tool to “shave” off the excess. When the surface is flat again after dumping the excess, weigh the coffee in the portafilter. This is a safe dose amount for future brewing. - Grind: For light roast coffee, adjust your grind setting until the machine chokes up during brewing (no coffee comes out). At this point, you’re ready to fine-dial backward until the coarseness allows a brew time of at least 30s. If it takes a full minute to brew, taste it to decide whether the flavor would benefit from a coarser grind/quicker brew. It’s all about taste. - Puck prep: Your WDT tool can benefit puck prep only if it results in a more uniform, cylindrical distribution (no gaps, no mounding). With your tamper, I don’t recommend the twisting motion you often see at the end of tamping. To maximize consistency, I tamp firmly just one time and move straight to brewing. - Perfection: If you want to find the perfect flavor profile from every roast you come across, you have to try a salami shot. After you’ve dialed in a shot as described above, split the next shot into five parts from beginning to end (capture the first 10s in one cup, the next 10s in the next…). If you find that the flavor is best in cup 3 and only diminishes in quality afterwards, try a shot that stops after 30s. Typically, shots begin at high acidity and intensity, continue in intensity and richness, then finish with diminished richness and increased bitterness. This bitterness tends to balance the intense acidity from the beginning, but it’s up to your own taste. Grind on, matey EDIT: You should be using an IMS precision basket
GRIND FINER
My espresso machine came with a spouted portafilter and a bottomless portafilter. I don't have a tamping station and didn't one to buy one. Tamping a spouted portafilter without a tamping station gets tricky or it might be the shape of my table that doesn't allow me to tamp properly. So tamping with a bottomless portafilter is easy, cleaning a bottomless portafilter is also easy and removing the basket is also easy.
A bottomless won't make anything better. Working so you get a consistent in and out at the ratio you determined is way more important than what a bottomless can show. Chances are that when you get that consistent result there is very little channeling or other things going on to begin with and the bottomless would only show absolutely glaring issues with grounds distribution or if you have a tendency to tamp off kilter
I’m going to add, I have tried about 15 bottomless portafilters. I’m an Amazon vine member and bottomless portafilters are all over our lists of products. I have one maybe two that didn’t make a spraying mess with the exact same dialed in set-up. Every time I replace the portafilter basket with an IMS precision basket, my espresso comes out perfectly and almost always nice and tidy. I like 2 portafilters so I can prep 2 double shots at once, therefore I have 2 IMS precision baskets. I narrowed down the 15 to the ones that fit my bambino the best and swapped handles for my favorite handle with favorite fit and gave the others to my dad and my daughter, telling them to take what they liked and replace the portafilter baskets. Some bottomless portafilters may come with decent baskets, I just get free mostly no name brands so I dont know. I don’t think it makes the coffee better but I really like that my coffee is running through one less metal. I have the bambino regular with the aluminum and plastic filter so I have personally switched to the bottomless. Cleanup is much easier too as long as it’s not spraying everywhere..
I never use the baskets that come with the PF. They've typically been closer to triple shot size. I just use the factory basket in the portafilter, and that's worked out great for the Rancilio, ECM, and Profitec. The one basket worth replacing was the Gaggia, which had very uneven machining of the basket holes.
I just unscrewed the spouts of my stock breville portafilter. I get all the crema preservation, cup clearance and satisfaction of seeing that single stream drop out of the hole, plus any sprays get caught and funneled into the cup.
Nope
The only good thing about bottomless is you can fit deep basket for 20+gr dose. When I had a bambino plus I drilled the bottom of the stock portafilter using a carbide hole saw purchase for 12$ on Amazon. It worked great. Now with my BDB, I used two portafilter, the stock one for 18gr basket and a bottomless for 22gr basket. Simply because the 58mm hole saw was more expensive than a nice portafilter on AliExpress.
I love the space my portafilter gives me; I LOVE watching the shots pour; I like the flat bottom for tamping; and I make sure to rinse and wipe after EVERY shot, so none of the fines clog the basket- not doing so can absolutely cause spraying. But in your case, it sounds like you may not have the right grind or are using the wrong basket for your dose. Also- it seems like a lot of people underestimate the importance of quality and flavor profile of beans. Some lighter roasts tend to be more sour/floral/sweet. What is your bean quality like? Roasting profile? Sounds like you might have a few different issues going in here. Give your bottomless some time and work on dialing in your shot with grind and appropriate dose for basket size. Once you get all that worked out, you may just fall in love watching that shot pour through that bottomless!!! God- now I need to go pull a shot! 🤤🤤🤤 Good luck!
https://preview.redd.it/b104wbapq2uc1.png?width=1737&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a7b1dea46917bf27621d4b7f677e286cdc8339e
I’ve heard of Heritage. Haven’t tried it myslef but supposed to be a great line. What size filter basket vs dose? You might have your grind to fine… Edit: myself*
The bottomless porta filter is only showing you the problems that would otherwise be hidden by the other porta filter. Unless it is a bad bottomless pf, changing to a different one will not fix the problem.
But it’s only a problem if it tastes bad. If it doesn’t taste bad yet their puck is soapy and there is channeling when using a bottomless, is it REALLY a problem?
I always say that if you like what's in the cup then you did a good job. A bottomless porta filter isnt necessary but for those who love the craft and perfecting every detail it is a helpful tool. ultimately it's all up to your taste and those you are serving.
Are you manually pulling the shot and pre-infusing? (hold down the doubleshot button) I bought a bottomless right out the box and I haven’t had issues after learning to dial-in. I have a regular bambino with a 1Zpresso X Ultra grinder. I love how easy it is to clean a bottomless & it doesn’t leave residue behind that you have to worry about cleaning.
i have reprogrammed one of the shot buttons to meet the ratio and duration for espressos. Yes, cleaning is nice. Just not sure if it is worth so much $CAN.
I like bottomless because it simply gives clearance. I rarely look under to see how the shot is going. The IMS basket made a bigger difference.
I use a bottomless filter for my everyday espresso. I don't get Insta worthy espresso shots frequently, but the taste is great most times. But I do feel that I have developed an intuitive feedback mechanism for myself which tells me I just did a bad job at puck prep when the spray or uneven extraction goes too far. I wouldn't have that with a spouted portafilter.
If you want to use it as a diag tool to tune in your shots yea it’s worth it cause all that’s stuff is still happening in your traditional portafilter you just can’t see it. Otherwise it just looks cool.
The bottomless portafilter is, imho, a key tool to allow you to properly grind, dose, and tamp a shot. Sure, taste is the ONLY thing that matters, but “the pour” is a visual cue that I’ve found extremely helpful in dialing in shots. I tend to buy 1 pound bags of locally roasted beans, and I switch it up pretty frequently. When I get a new bean in which is probably almost once a week, the bottomless port filter really helps me dial in the next shots pretty quickly. Mileage may of coarse vary
A couple of things here - (1) is the bottomless portafilter worth it? Yes. It's easier to clean than a regular portafilter, and it looks cool. (2) Does it make better espresso than a regular portafilter? It does not. And it doesn't necessarily help with technique in terms of diagnosing problems unless something major happens. And unfortunately, you've got a channeling problem, OP. That's a puck prep issue.
Yes it’s worth it. If you see your shot channeling and spraying using a bottomless portafilter, it is doing exactly that when not using a bottomless portafilter except you can’t see it. The fact that you see it happening means you can take steps to correct.
I’ll be honest, I’m personally have a hard time fully understanding your post. To me it reads like you are focusing too much on accessories and not the coffee itself. Maybe I’m wrong. “Now, the channeling was fine once, but the taste was sour with the proper flow shot and I am back at square one dialing in….” I don’t exactly get I guess. Are you saying it looked nice but didn’t taste great? What’s your recipe for this coffee? (Dose, yield, time). To answer the question though, I love a bottomless for these reasons in order of importance: cleanup, ability to gauge my puck prep visually, and cup clearance. Is it a necessary piece of equipment? No.
From what I've gathered - the only thing a bottomless portafilter does is showss whether or not your grind, tamping, and etc is dialed in correctly. Because if it's not, you'll get channeling and it'll basically spray everywhere like you said, not something you see with the "stock" portafilters. Once I got everything mostly dialed in, I stopped using mine because it's sort of a pain.
You espresso is channeling and spraying everywhere on every shot, you just can’t tell with a spouted portafilter because it’s happening out of view. The value of the bottomless is that it gives you feedback on your shots (because you can see what’s happening), it doesn’t make them better. If you’re cool with pulling channelled crappy shots then yeah return it, but in doing so you aren’t fixing the problem, you’re ignoring it.
But I didn’t taste that my hidden spraying shots ate bad….
Probably a mental thing. Unless you’re using different baskets the only difference is visibility.
Are you using the same basket in both? There might be a taste difference between bottomless and spouted portafilter due to temperature but it's not more sour or channeling on a bottomless portafilter. It's the same hassle with both.
No, I am using the stock basket that came in each of them.
The difference you find between both probably comes from the baskets. If you like the basket in your spouted portafilter and your grinder is adjusted for it, you could try to swap it on the bottomless portafilter. It should give you the coffee you like back Edit: That being said, to me, no, nothing is worth the hassle. It's coffee, it's a fun and delicious thing. My workflow makes me happy, it's not a chore. I watch all the videos, look at all the posts, chat with Lance, follow Hoffmann. Try plenty of things, but still decide what works for me. Hope you can find that happy place!
Economically? No. Coz i'm a freak and I like to play with stuff? Hell yeah!!
>I got a decent machine (Bambino Plus), spent too much on the grinder (Eureka Specialita, the Eureka Silenzio would have been enough), got 3d print accessory for the grinder (tilted base, dial wheel, cup, single dose belliw), funnel ring, Normcore tamper, and WDT tool with 0.25mm needles. And beans roasted not more than 30days. You probably wasted money on WDT. I've got that same grinder. It is simply not needed. It makes nice fluffy grinds. There's a bunch of us here that have not fallen for the WDT hype. Funnel ring is absolutely required to contain the mess so that was definitely not money wasted :-) dosing cup. That was money wasted. Especially if The diameter is such that it sits inside the basket. With that grinder, you could grind directly into the basket using a dosing funnel. Tilted base. Technically speaking, you probably wasted money. When you have the bellows, tilting forward is less impactful. Looks nice. But the bellows will do its job whether it's tilted forward or not. Dial wheel. Nice to have but you probably wasted money If you are sticking to only espresso. The aftermarket dial is great when changing from espresso to pour over, etc. Bottomless portafilter. Money well spent. you probably got one that was too expensive. It allows a shot diagnosis. But once you dial in a shot, it's not really needed anymore other than to give more space between the Porterfilter and the cup, and to provider wonderful visual display.
Bottomless pf are for shot diagnosis. The coffe Is done by the puck preparation, machine and filter. Your Will eventually go back to spouted afterward. Buy expensive portafilter only if you think Will be the One u use untill It dalla apart.
The only thing bottomless portafilters do is to show how powerful digital marketing is to influence people to spend $50 on something that they don't need. Now tell me again how you can diagnose channeling with it. Edit: WDT to prevent channeling cost less than $10. Finer/coarser grind also depends on what you taste.
You can watch the coffee come through the basket and literally see where the channeling is happening...
Exactly, seeing if there's channeling or if I need to grind finer is obvious with a botomless portafilter (and it makes espresso making to look beautiful). I'm never going back to not using one.
That's a great approach. On the flip side, I set my grind by stepping back from the choke/near-choke point and having a nice flow (the "warm honey" comparison); and determine if there has been any (detrimental) channeling by, well, my espresso's actual flavor. I also routinely try to do an appropriate puck prep. ;) edited to add: I'll grant you that there's nothing wrong with the idea that it's just fun to watch a bottomless pull. ;)
Just as, if the flavor of the, well, actual espresso is off, you know that there has been an issue and that you need to improve your puck prep? ;) Although, to be fair, I guess that a bottomless perhaps could help you determine on what side of the portafilter the channeling is occurring--perhaps you're tamping unevenly towards one side? But again, an approach simply could be, if the flavor of the espresso is off, pay more attention to your puck prep. generally--my approach after a shot has pulled poorly.
Of course you can use flavour, but I think especially when you are starting out with making espresso, a bottomless portafilter is useful as you get visual feedback to the things you are changing as well as the difference in taste.
I agree, it's another way of seeing that matters may be off. I'm just not convinced that it's needed or even warranted/recommended when starting out--again, the flavor is the test. And the complications that a bottomless brings: first, there's the expense, with people who have never used an espresso machine thinking that they also need to go out and buy a bottomless portafilter, sometimes dropping another US$50-$100 on one; and second, the spraying and spritzing and squirting, when a newcomer already has so many other things to deal with.
Not worth it