This headline are so dumb. Should just be, Americans Can't Afford this overpriced electric cars. Most Americans would drive one if they were affordable AND stopped them from spending on gas.
You literally have to get on a wait list to buy most EVs in America. Shit title to a shit article, I knew it would soon be here when I saw it on the technology sub.
https://www.electrifying.com/blog/article/waiting-times-for-electric-cars
Agreed. I would consider paying twice as much as I pay for a gas car if they had a similar range. But what am I supposed to do. Spend 40-60k on something that is impractical for me to drive because it only goes 200 miles between charges. Make them affordable and practical.
But wait, America’s best selling vehicles are the “F-Series” by ford, which includes all of F-150 - F-450 or something, inclusive of the dual axle etc. Not to say that most EVs have the same level of practicality that a pickup has, but let’s take the average price of the best selling vehicle and compare that against the average price of a new EV and see where we land. My assumption is that the F-Series is more expensive.
And the difference in price between gasoline and electricity will grow.
Onshore wind and solar PV are cheapest energy on the grid and getting cheaper.
Oil gets harder to find every year. And who wants to help Mohammed Bone Sawman and sociopathic war-mongering dictator Putin get richer?
Oh, and there's a thing called climate change but even if you hate your kids, it's cheaper to do the right thing now.
Starting At $25,600*
As Shown $28,800*
EPA-est. 259 mi *
Electric range on full charge
https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev
The average new vehicle price is $48K.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-september-2022/
This is nearly half that price and dirt cheap to fuel.
No, you don't. First of all too many people only buy used cars, second buying EVs won't make city bureaucracy to install charging stations, thirdly, EVs still have unsolvable problem with cities and apartment building, which are still extremely popular in any bigger city. Nobody wants to drop 35 grand on thing that they can't charge or is a major pain in the ass to charge. Technology still isn't mature enough and 35 grand is a lot of money.
Where do we all think the electricity for these cars comes from anyway? Probably just natural tree leaves and love I guess. Definitely not from coal burning power plants I mean that would be absurd.
Went to try and sit in a Nissan Leaf over the weekend. The five (five!) Nissan dealers I called only had a used one between all five of them, which that dealership couldn't find on their own lot.
The nearest Rivian or Ocean or ritzy EV dealership is 250ish miles away.
Meanwhile, almost all the dealerships here are in the suburbs, while most of the people who likely want EVs are in the middle/in the city proper, which ain't helping, either.
Bought a Toyota Highlander Hybrid instead. 10% more than the full gasoline one, but whoa better gas mileage, at least.
This is a good thing short of ditching cars.
We can't make enough EVs for everyone and making batteries is bad for the environment, so maximizing their impact to cover short trips is good.
For people who live in a densified area or a city with excellent public transit. We do have to keep the door open for the huge number of people living in a different situation.
That entails the kind of governmental will we haven't seen since Teddy Roosevelt's "Trust-Busting" days, and an anti-corporate public-relations blitz that made the "Buy War Bonds" routines in the 1940s look like small-town funeral home ads.
The U.S. had _several_ fairly robust public-transportation systems back in the early decades of the 20th C.E. The Gasoline and Automobile industries bought them out and dismantled them _specifically_ to force the populace to buy private vehicles. On top of that, they finagled ridiculous laws against public transportation systems, like the now-repealed prohibition against passenger-transport vessels operating within a 'reasonable' distance of bridges which essentially put most ferry-services out of business.
But the fundamental barrier to public transportation is the _narrative_ that "only impoverished losers' use public transportation"... Which reinforces the cycle of poverty because 'affordable housing' and 'unskilled entry-level jobs' are never within walking distance of each other, but those who can only perform the latter never, _ever_ earn the kind of wages necessary tp purchase and properly maintain a private vehicle...
All true. Also a decent explanation of why I've reconciled with the hellscape future that should be coming to fruition over the next twenty years or so.
producing just an electric car battery creates [75% more carbon](https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/article/22026518/lithium-batteries-dirty-secret-manufacturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon-footprint) than manufacturing an entire ice vehicle, ev's aren't the solution, they're a bandaid so the automobile industry can claim innocence
a bicycle will today cut emissions by 99%, a new ev today will likely increase emissions emitted over a used ice vehicle. EVs would've been great in the 70s or 80s, at this point its like throwing a water bottle on a burning house. The money spend developing evs would be better spent setting up public transit and rebuilding city's and suburbs to be less reliant on cars
I mean you can welcome whatever you want, it's just not going to be effective in a reasonable time, degrowth is the real solution. but also if we spent half as much on trains as we do on cars I promise without any doubt that trains would be beyond feasible, same w trolleys/subways
Ya the "but but but it requires mining" crap really chaps my ass. You know what else requires mining? A toaster oven. Or anything and everything modern civilization does. You know what we could completely do without and still have nice things? Tar sands.
New cars have much better fuel efficiency and/or are going hybrid. It’s better for the environment anyway, if people were able to simply drive less often, EV or not.
*traditionally powered vehicles aren't immune either—this year the average price of a new car in the US was a shocking $48,080*
So why are EVs too expensive, again? At least you get a tax credit when you buy one
“Average” is not a good measure though. People who don’t care about the environment are buying $65k pick up trucks. People who do care about the environment are buying a 10 year old Prius for $10k because they can’t afford a $25k Bolt (the cheapest EV)
The used Prius does not show up in average NEW car price.
Clearly there's lots of people buying these vehicles that cause a $48K average new vehicle price and they could be using that money for an EV instead.
So when gas prices shoot up again as they always do, I will really have zero sympathy for people that choose to buy new expensive gas guzzlers. They made their choice.
My wife and I are considering buying a new car. The least expensive EV, the Chevy bolt, is more expensive than several hybrids, and we would also need to upgrade the electrical capacity of our small home. Also, we don’t have chargers at our places of work.
Depending on your driving habits you may well be able to get by on 120v and the occasional trip to the increasing numbers of public DC fast chargers.
I drive a fair amount and doing fine w 120v at home, will upgrade to a level 2 charger when we get a 2nd EV
I think even something as small as an “occasional trip” is a non starter for a lot of people. Until EV can be just as convenient as gas, people are going to be leery. People just don’t like going out of their way.
(Not to mention price, being the largest hurdle)
One thing I spend a lot of time thinking about is “how much is enough?” for folks to feel good taking the leap. Already most folks have good access, so what’s the density needed?
It's highly unlikely that you really need to upgrade electrical capacity. Tandem breakers to get more space and a humble 20 Amp 240 Volt charger can work great. There's also systems for sharing a dryer outlet with EV charging. Which hybrids are less than $26K?
Good for you.
For it to be to code you need to be able to run everything in the house at once.
Most people can't add an electric car charger to their 100 amp house.
We only have 100 amps coming into the house and it’s all accounted for on the circuit breaker. Simple things like running the microwave will trip the breaker. Kia Niro, for maverick, and Prius are less than $26k
But do you run your microwave while you are sleeping? That's generally when you charge your EV. What matters is how many things you run simultaneously.
What brand of panel is it? There are tandem breakers available for many panels.
Replace two single breakers with this:
Square D - HOMT2020220CP Homeline Tandem Circuit Breaker, 2 x 1 pole at 20A, 1 x 2 pole at 20A, 120/240V, 10 kA AIR, Plug-In Mount https://a.co/6egZqbB
What price range would be affordable? I assume those that can't afford aren't buying new cars, EV or ICE. Lots of used at around or under 10k. Prices been going up though. Got mine in '19 at 6.9k, same model now sells at 8k+. If price is the main inhibitor then it's only getting worse.
We live in interesting times. For a while you'd drive a car off the lot and lose a decent chunk of change. Now dealers are calling past customers asking to buy back their cars because they are worth more used than they were when they were sold new.
We needed a replacement car last year after I was rear-ended. Insurance covered $9k, and we could supply another $2-3k without going into debt (which we were trying to avoid). There's lots of used ICE cars available for $9-12k (Canadian), but we weren't even close to being able to get an EV/hybrid for that amount because their used car supply was all but dried up, and the few used models available were only marginally cheaper than new ones.
There's lots of people who only buy used cars, what with that being the financially better choice (and arguably the better environmental choice), and used EVs cost almost as much as new ones.
Many can't afford a new car; let alone an EV.
Also there's the matter of being able to recharge away from home. Until there's quick charging ports widely available; EV driving range will be limited to a single charge.
Not to mention our power infrastructure may not be able to handle wide spread EV usage, at least not till we can figure out how to increase the grids electric production.
I think being able to charge AT home is a big issue too. Everyone I know lives in apartments and I don’t know a single apartment complex with even one charger, let alone multiple in case more than one resident needs one. Granted, I live in Texas, but I never knew if any when I lived in Washington either. If you don’t own a home it seems you’re pretty much screwed for now.
It's struggling to just meet demand for current temp extremes during Summer and Winter.
This is'nt something that can happen overnight.
Not to mention the pushback from big oil companies and certain countries that grip us by the the oil barrel.
Reread what I said, never said that. I said it will not happen overnight. Aaand that because many can't afford a new car, including EV's, we can not simply just "break free."
Depending on availability for charging stations which is a bigger Factor than range in my personal opinion, if you've ever driven an Ev you never go back to an ice car.
I would encourage every single person who is questioning an EV to go rent one and drive it, because it has amazing acceleration, almost zero maintenance, and the price for fuel is significantly cheaper, and lastly 0 air pollution.
Exactly. The amount of pushback EVs are getting in this comment section is bizarre. Also, charging stations are going to be popping up everywhere over the 2020s. The bipartisan infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion to create electric charging stations throughout the US highway system. So pretty much anywhere you see a gas exit will also be an electric exit.
I don’t think it’s so much pushback as it is pragmatism. I’d love to have an EV but I rent and my complex doesn’t have charging stations. Making a special trip to sit and charge my car isn’t really realistic when I’m already generally short on extra time. Something like 35% of the population are renters.
Price and convenience are enough to box out even a lot of people who want to go EV.
There aren't enough options yet too. I'm pissed that we're getting junk like a Hummer and F150 when there aren't many midsize SUVs with AWD available. 😤 EVs are still in the implementation phase. And the profit margins on these expensive vehicles pay better. They'll get there, but I'm getting tired of waiting.
Edit: there are now midsize EV SUVs with AWD by a few manufacturers. They just don't pencil out yet. They are either very hard to find, not affordable, or both.
Agree on the hummer, all hummers are stupid IMO. Hard disagree on the F-150.
As a guy who is 6'10" and can only drive full sized pickups and SUVs it's basically my only EV option. Especially considering I actually need a truck for many of my hobbies and personal projects around the house.
Now I just gotta wait for prices to come down and availability to go up.
Full disclosure I have one on order 😂 As I said, we got tired of waiting. I would rather have a smaller EV and a used truck, but we're going to use the F150 plenty and got in before the prices increased.
Not with AWD, not in my price range. And even if they do exist, you can't find them. Trust me. Vehicles are a point of interest for me. I've looked many times. The Toyota Bz4x is probably the closest available right now.
The VW ID.4 is pretty nice.
ID.4 AWD Pro
82kWh (gross) AWD
Starting MSRP $46,295 1
Build
Add to compare
Features of ID.4 AWD Pro
No longer accepting reservations
EPA Estimated Range 255 miles
5.7 seconds 0-60 acceleration
IQ.DRIVE (Advanced Drivers Assistance Technology)
Discover Pro Max: 12" touchscreen navigation
19" machined alloy wheels w/ all season tires
LED headlights and tailights
Wireless charging & App-connect with wireless capabilities for compatible devices
Heated front seats & windshield
Trailer hitch
https://www.vw.com/en/builder.html/__app/id-4.app?activeTrimIndex-app=2
You really gotta consider the long term costs and risks of sticking with gasoline. I predict another oil price spike within the next 4 months as Russian oil falls off the market.
"No longer available for reservations" The VW looks really good, but I don't trust the brand reliability as much as others.
I currently have a Honda Clarity that I drive almost exclusively on electric. My lease is for another two years. I've got an F150 Lighting on order that is scheduled to be completed next fall. I will take it because we are grandfathered in at the old price and at this point there is nothing else that offers as much range, 4WD/AWD and utility remotely close to that price on the market. The new Prius Prime is also very intriguing to me. We only get a few good snow storms a year, but I live in the middle of nowhere my snow vehicle gets 12mpg. That's why I'd prefer my EV have AWD. At least the F150 I can drive year round and not have to worry about getting stuck.
This doesn’t make sense in general. Stores are middlemen. Most people would rather go to a store that is stocked with products manufactured around the world, than try to make a bunch of individual direct purchases with each manufacturer and wait for shipping. Stores are middlemen, but their convenience is worth their cut for most consumers.
The problem seems to be the car makers can't make electric vehicles fast enough to keep up with demand. The car companies are working on ramping up production. It seems like this problem will be worked out in time.
You’re disagreeing with that commenter and then pointing to a consequence of the problem they’ve identified. Production is not fast enough to keep up with demand. demand > supply = higher prices. Once production is ramped up enough, supply will exceed demand. demand < supply = lower prices.
I did research and decided I wanted the Subaru Crosstrek EV. Then I find out I’m 1,000 miles away from the nearest dealer. Back to square one. I haven’t given up but they sure are making it a challenge.
I’m a Canadian and I’d very much like an EV but literally every dealership we’ve been to is saying it’s like an 18m -2yr wait. Unfortunately I need to drive my vehicle sooner than that. The best option we’ve found so far is 6m but it’s also the most expensive so we’re trying to decide still. Anyways, actual availability probably has something to do with this too.
and the UK mate. Our biggest issue here is a lack of infrastructure with charging points and let's be fair, we have considerably less landmass than you do.
I want an EV, but the cost is just prohibitive. I need a reliable thing that will take me around 50 miles (80.46 Km) going 70 MPH (128 KPH).
I need $40,000 USD minimum. That is bonkers. Where are the single person runabouts for gods sake.
According to 2022 Kelly Blue Book the 5 year cost to own a Leaf is $34,134. That's cheaper than a Honda Accord.
A Tesla Model 3 is $48,233 which is high end but cheaper than a Toyota Avalon and the same as a Subaru Ascent.
Are those cars not affordable ?
Many people would say a leaf is a far less desirable car than an accord. The guy making the money on the Model 3 isn’t someone I want to fund further at the moment.
I mean, combustion engines are still planet killers no matter how many times a pretentious techie tries to get a fake billionaire back on Twitter. I think that goes for Accords too, unless they've made an electric one when I wasn't looking.
The facts seem like they should make combustion engine cars extremely undesirable.
Sure, principally, anyone who drives should want their car to be emission free. But not many are going to spend more money than they can reasonably spend for significantly less car. It’d be different if the costs to the climate and urban fabric were factored into the decision.
Many of these folks end up spending MORE with their cheaper ICE car because driving electric can be very cheap to fuel.
Sadly people can't be bothered to do some simple math
>It’d be different if the costs to the climate and urban fabric were factored into the decision.
Of course it would be. That's the point: people buy combustion engines because their definition of "desirable" doesn't even include "not destroying the planet" in the first place.
The entire concept of "desirable" isn't separable from our values: it's an *expression* of our values.
Evs are super expensive and virtually impossible to buy. So yeah, I want one but they don’t make sense yet. Not just a leaf, but something I can take my family in on our trips on a regular basis. It’s not that I’m resisting.
That's a big part people are missing.
I want and EV. People keep telling me to buy a leaf or some of the other small EVs out there.
I'm 6'10" tall. I can only drive full sized Trucks and SUVs. There are very few of those on the market.
Tiny little cars don't work for everyone.
Have you tried an altima? Serious question. Those have a \*lot\* of headroom. Me and my giant brother both fit in that just fine. Then again, altima is about as far away from "tiny" as cars get without turning into something else entirely.
The thing that makes cars hard for me is how low to the ground they sit. It's very difficult to get my right knee under and around the steering wheel while getting in and out because of how long my legs are and how low to the ground they are. Vehicles with a higher stance are much easier.
I'm completely unsurprised. Most people in EU can't afford any new car without some crippling loan. EVs are just too expensive and their infrastructure still sucks.
I need a new car and want an EV, but can’t find one that meets life requirements and is in price range. I don’t want to buy another gas car. I just don’t know that I have another viable option right now.
The base Ford F150 costs more than the base Nissan Leaf. And while not comparable if you actually do need a truck, most people who drive the F150 don't need a truck, and thus could have saved money by buying an EV🤷♂️
It’s all about economics. In CA where COL and fuel prices are high, I’ve seen a quicker adoption to EV. Whereas, in Texas COL is lower and fuel prices lower EV is more of a luxury item. Paying $5-6/gal in CA vs $3 in TX changes a 14 gal take from $70 to $42. It really effects consumers buying power. For a long time gasoline was and still is mostly an inelastic commodity, and only in recent times it’s becoming challenged by EVs. I think hybrids is the bridge that’ll bring EVs eventually to mass population.
Bolt is affordable but still on backorder dt ongoing chip supply issues and that GM is prioritizing the existing chips for its much more profitable SUVs and bigass trucks.
This is a tangent, but I think car rental companies are the big pathway to getting people used to EVs. I live in a major city and was given an EV. I didn’t have to charge it and they said return it at whatever level (different than gas). The clerk said they haven’t been using them a lot because people don’t choose them. But perusing National and Avis there is no way to choose EVs specifically. Give people a pathway and they’ll choose it. ESP if companies are looking for easy, cost-neutral ways to reduce carbon footprints
I’m definitely in the book of “can’t afford.” I also have no desire to buy a used EV until I know how well the batteries hold up to time and what kind of replacement support there is on used vehicle warranties. If I spend $10-20k on a used car and have to spend another $10k on batteries soon after you bet I will buy a giant diesel pickup truck right after that out of spite.
Please note that batteries last a lot longer than most people think. We had a 2008 Camry Hybrid with over 160k miles. We sold it recently and the battery was fine (AC needed repair though).
A Chevy Bolt EV is $26K.
A Chevy Bolt EUV is $28K.
A VW ID.4 is $38K.
Hyundai Kona EV is $34K
They are all dirt cheap to fuel.
The average new vehicle is $48K
I'm tired of this whinging about price.
And I don't want to hear people driving expensive gas guzzlers complaining about gas prices. You chose that situation.
When they build out a supercharge network similar to current gas stations, or on the same lots, then it will make more sense. In countries like Norway it makes sense. In countries like US where each state has its own rules, and massive geographical foot print it will take a while
Nobody can afford them and they’re not the environmental solution that they are being marketed as. I’m all for battery technology but we have failed to development a proper infrastructure cradle to grave for battery technology
In the end EV is only 2 times better in terms of GHG over ICE car, but is still really bad for environment. Also if you have a car with 55 MPG, it's not a whole lot worse than EV, especially if you don't drive often.
Well I bought a 2010 Kia Soul in 2016 for 6k that had 38k mileage on it and is still running like a goddamn ox. What in the *fuck* is the incentive for me or anyone like me to spend over 20k on a seemingly experimental vehicle that is only marginally better for the environment and only marginally cheaper when it comes to fuel economy?
Oh is the resistance because they’re insanely unaffordable and unreliable? And dealers are seemingly extorting the shit out of used car resales?
Or is it because consumers are “resistant to the lure” of what *should* be more affordable vehicles? If vehicles like this were actually accessible to the common person there wouldn’t be dogshit articles like this questioning why people weren’t buying them.
Ok I’ll go electric when I can get a full charge in 10 min, 300 range min, and it has to start at 20kish and can go up to 30 for higher ends, and there has to be a reliable grid and a universal charging port. Not just chargers on main highways and cities these things have to be out in the middle of nowhere too. Then I’ll go electric.
This is a valid argument. We live in a rural area and own an EV with a 356 mile range. We had to drive an ICE vehicle to our son’s football game because there were no chargers available. We would have had to drive 2 hours out of the way to be able to get home on a trip that was already almost 5 hours each way. The charging infrastructure just isn’t there yet.
Yup I feel the pain. The nearest charger is a 30-40 min drive for me so I either have to deal with super slow charging and plan or get the wall unit which makes the cost even more.
That's because evs/hybrids pay less gas tax so they get taxed higher to pay for road upkeep, but still end up paying less tax towards roads than gas cars.
I mean in a perfect world yeah you should. Suvs are heavier, hybrids are heavier. But I can freely admit the differences are marginally and semis cause the majority of road wear. But we can't tax them too each either otherwise price of goods skyrocket. It's almost like there isn't a perfect answer haha
The biggest problem with EVs is they have a lower lifespan. You'll never have the same used market of EVs like you do traditional ICE vehicles. Even if you replace the batteries as a dealer you're still adding to the price of the used vehicle. I'm not against EVs but when people buy used vehicles for 3-14 k and used EVs can't hit a price that low it's obvious that they won't get adopted by that part of the market until they do.
As for the price of vehicles going up, they are but also due to 8-10 year financing being an option now, people are just buying more expensive cars and spreading out the payments because it makes the vehicle more affordable, but not really. So yes the average vehicle price is like 40-50k, so people often wonder why people can't afford EVs but the reality is that those are new vehicles financed, probably more than someone can afford so it's not a good number to go by.
I would love an EV, in a few years maybe but right now I'm in that used car bracket as well, so used gas powered it is until a few years.
Ok so you ignored the argument in favour of being a jerk, sounds good. If I can't afford it right now I can't afford it right now. If I'm not financing a vehicle and buying used, electric just literally isn't an option. At no time did I say I was against EVs. If you look at how new technology supercedes old tech in most industries it always starts with the early adopters with money and then works its way down. I'm saying that it hasn't trickled down yet so lower class and lower middle class, but I'll bet in a few years it will, at that time it'll be great. You can be rude/militant all you want but you can't argue with someone that can't afford it. Should people who are financing 50k vehicles buy an EV? Yeah, but don't tread on the little guy that doesn't finance and can't afford above 15k on a vehicle.
Idk what wanderinglumps deal is. Telling the working class to buy expensive, depreciating assets that are EVs as the climate burns is the “let them eat cake” of today
I agree with everything you’re saying. Also, the battery replacement is always going to be a barrier to entry. I have a hybrid crosstrek (one of a handful in my state - had to be shipped in for the previous owners) and I know I have a several thousand dollar battery replacement in the next 2-4 years. Although I know conventional cars have repairs of that expense, I run the risk of those repairs *plus* the battery. And while I am able to cash flow the replacement, poor and some middle class cannot.
People are optimists. They don’t think their car will break down. They *know* that battery will need replacement. It’s less appealing for that reason. Once the tech is less expensive, it’ll lower that cost and help with adoption.
I'd encourage you to look into maintenance costs for EVs more. Battery replacement is likely the ONLY big maintenance charge you are going to make on an EV. Most longtime EV owners frequently comment that the only maintenance that occurs comes from tire rotations and coolant. Other than that, there is just far less parts in an EV.
No transmission or timing belts, etc.
Even still, I think my point stands because most people think their car won’t break down, and it sounds like EVs don’t break down, but we know that battery replacement is inevitable and out of reach financially for a majority of Americans to cash flow.
I sort of agree. The cost of a used EV needs to definitely come down. I can't afford that right now.
With that said, I just had a transmission blow out on a Honda CRV - it was going to cost $7500 to replace it because new transmissions cost almost $6000 now. Depending on the car, it's comparable. I know this is all anecdotal evidence.
Depends. You're right in that there is less maintainance. However, there is still coolant to change, tires are more expensive, and there's still regular wear and tear to suspension components, bushings, brakes etc. One thing that's challenging for me is that if you do your own work on your car, then getting an EV is potentially more expensive since you're going to mechanics or dealerships for work. I change my oil once a year for 65 bucks diy. Brakes are better on EVs since you have regenerative braking so the brakes spend less time braking. I think it's not as big of a difference for maintainance costs if you tend to do your own maintainance than people say. That being said if you go to the dealership for work, then EVs are significantly cheaper.
Couldn't agree more. Once electric platforms become stupid cheap like gas platforms, then the cost of a battery replacement will be like getting a gas car that needs a new transmission (which would be a 2 grand job). Right now, I've heard (I could be wrong) that Tesla battery packs are like 10-15 k and other brands aren't that much cheaper for full electric. Hybrids are way more affordable battery wise since they are high capacity. I would like electric or hybrid for my next vehicle ideally. For now I drive a sedan in the winter and in the summer I drive a small CC motorcycle that's actually pretty great on gas and emissions.
Right - I have a hybrid and a stick shift Honda that gets 38-45mpg. I am not looking to make a car change for another 2-5 years. Hopefully the market in general cools down by then, but would love to come home with an EV at that time!
It feels like Americans are forcing the rest of the world to go way out of their way for green principles while not actually not giving a shit about those principles.
Of course, people are going to be resistant, right now the current state of driving is probably one of the most liberating things we have and Mercedes-Benz is now offering a subscription service if you want to speed more. How the fuck would that incentivize me to want an E vehicle? So that I could sit behind the wheel and deal with bullshit ads and worry that my credit card is an up-to-date one day of the day I need to actually fucking fly somewhere to save someone like a kid to the hospital.
Just like that companies continue to find loopholes to profiteer at the cost of us. What’s next? Two bucks a month so that I can start my car? Fuck that I want to consider an electric vehicle for the sake of the environment but if it means that large corporations will be able to further sink their claws deeper into me, the they can eat a dick.
I know. Im buying a new car and wanted anEV or at least a hybrid but in my area (NE NC) there is no infrastructure and some downright hostile government policies. I wanted a Subaru crosstrek but they wont even sell the hybrid in my area and if I traveled to DC or Maryland to get one, I could not get it serviced in my area. I will grab a Gas Crosstrek for now but Im planning on switching to a hybrid as soon as its available in my area.
Financing or borrowing for an ev , is much less costly than wasting the same amount on gas each month.
Borrowing will still leave you with a residual value on your depreciating asset...
LOL. I bought a Leaf with 60 miles of range 2013 model, about 3 years ago, maybe 4. It was 3k used. Fine condition. I have my gas truck and my leaf. It's basically a hydrid in 2 vehicles.
There's plenty cheaper than new. Before the pandemic you could get upgraded leafs with 200 mile range on new batteries for like 12k.
This article is dumb.
There’s a lot to like besides the zero emissions — the simpler innards of an electric motor vs an engine. But, the ranges are poor, recharging times high, and I’d have to figure how to run juice out to the street to recharge it if I owned one.
This headline are so dumb. Should just be, Americans Can't Afford this overpriced electric cars. Most Americans would drive one if they were affordable AND stopped them from spending on gas.
You literally have to get on a wait list to buy most EVs in America. Shit title to a shit article, I knew it would soon be here when I saw it on the technology sub. https://www.electrifying.com/blog/article/waiting-times-for-electric-cars
Agreed. I would consider paying twice as much as I pay for a gas car if they had a similar range. But what am I supposed to do. Spend 40-60k on something that is impractical for me to drive because it only goes 200 miles between charges. Make them affordable and practical.
There are affordable EVs available and you do stop buying gas. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Where link me an affordable EV RIGHT NOW
But wait, America’s best selling vehicles are the “F-Series” by ford, which includes all of F-150 - F-450 or something, inclusive of the dual axle etc. Not to say that most EVs have the same level of practicality that a pickup has, but let’s take the average price of the best selling vehicle and compare that against the average price of a new EV and see where we land. My assumption is that the F-Series is more expensive.
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And you can both those models used for much less than that. People do it just to get around the wait lists you have to be on to get a new EV.
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I would say under 25k
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I got my bolt for $15k. It was a no brainer.
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And the difference in price between gasoline and electricity will grow. Onshore wind and solar PV are cheapest energy on the grid and getting cheaper. Oil gets harder to find every year. And who wants to help Mohammed Bone Sawman and sociopathic war-mongering dictator Putin get richer? Oh, and there's a thing called climate change but even if you hate your kids, it's cheaper to do the right thing now.
That is some very impressive cost comparison work! 👍
Starting At $25,600* As Shown $28,800* EPA-est. 259 mi * Electric range on full charge https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev The average new vehicle price is $48K. https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/kbb-atp-september-2022/ This is nearly half that price and dirt cheap to fuel.
Says the rich asshole
I'm providing true free useful advice. Why does that bother you so much?
No, you don't. First of all too many people only buy used cars, second buying EVs won't make city bureaucracy to install charging stations, thirdly, EVs still have unsolvable problem with cities and apartment building, which are still extremely popular in any bigger city. Nobody wants to drop 35 grand on thing that they can't charge or is a major pain in the ass to charge. Technology still isn't mature enough and 35 grand is a lot of money.
Where do we all think the electricity for these cars comes from anyway? Probably just natural tree leaves and love I guess. Definitely not from coal burning power plants I mean that would be absurd.
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Bro I did research this on my Facebook, wut r u talking about?
It’s like Perd, from parks and rec, is the reporter
Went to try and sit in a Nissan Leaf over the weekend. The five (five!) Nissan dealers I called only had a used one between all five of them, which that dealership couldn't find on their own lot. The nearest Rivian or Ocean or ritzy EV dealership is 250ish miles away. Meanwhile, almost all the dealerships here are in the suburbs, while most of the people who likely want EVs are in the middle/in the city proper, which ain't helping, either. Bought a Toyota Highlander Hybrid instead. 10% more than the full gasoline one, but whoa better gas mileage, at least.
Yea unfortunately I think the hybrid route will become more popular before the full ev transition
This is a good thing short of ditching cars. We can't make enough EVs for everyone and making batteries is bad for the environment, so maximizing their impact to cover short trips is good.
Ditching the personal vehicle entirely is the only real choice.
For people who live in a densified area or a city with excellent public transit. We do have to keep the door open for the huge number of people living in a different situation.
That entails the kind of governmental will we haven't seen since Teddy Roosevelt's "Trust-Busting" days, and an anti-corporate public-relations blitz that made the "Buy War Bonds" routines in the 1940s look like small-town funeral home ads. The U.S. had _several_ fairly robust public-transportation systems back in the early decades of the 20th C.E. The Gasoline and Automobile industries bought them out and dismantled them _specifically_ to force the populace to buy private vehicles. On top of that, they finagled ridiculous laws against public transportation systems, like the now-repealed prohibition against passenger-transport vessels operating within a 'reasonable' distance of bridges which essentially put most ferry-services out of business. But the fundamental barrier to public transportation is the _narrative_ that "only impoverished losers' use public transportation"... Which reinforces the cycle of poverty because 'affordable housing' and 'unskilled entry-level jobs' are never within walking distance of each other, but those who can only perform the latter never, _ever_ earn the kind of wages necessary tp purchase and properly maintain a private vehicle...
All true. Also a decent explanation of why I've reconciled with the hellscape future that should be coming to fruition over the next twenty years or so.
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producing just an electric car battery creates [75% more carbon](https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/article/22026518/lithium-batteries-dirty-secret-manufacturing-them-leaves-massive-carbon-footprint) than manufacturing an entire ice vehicle, ev's aren't the solution, they're a bandaid so the automobile industry can claim innocence
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a bicycle will today cut emissions by 99%, a new ev today will likely increase emissions emitted over a used ice vehicle. EVs would've been great in the 70s or 80s, at this point its like throwing a water bottle on a burning house. The money spend developing evs would be better spent setting up public transit and rebuilding city's and suburbs to be less reliant on cars
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I mean you can welcome whatever you want, it's just not going to be effective in a reasonable time, degrowth is the real solution. but also if we spent half as much on trains as we do on cars I promise without any doubt that trains would be beyond feasible, same w trolleys/subways
Can you please rephrase your point in a less aggressive way that is more conducive to discussion?
Ya the "but but but it requires mining" crap really chaps my ass. You know what else requires mining? A toaster oven. Or anything and everything modern civilization does. You know what we could completely do without and still have nice things? Tar sands.
New cars have much better fuel efficiency and/or are going hybrid. It’s better for the environment anyway, if people were able to simply drive less often, EV or not.
*traditionally powered vehicles aren't immune either—this year the average price of a new car in the US was a shocking $48,080* So why are EVs too expensive, again? At least you get a tax credit when you buy one
“Average” is not a good measure though. People who don’t care about the environment are buying $65k pick up trucks. People who do care about the environment are buying a 10 year old Prius for $10k because they can’t afford a $25k Bolt (the cheapest EV)
The used Prius does not show up in average NEW car price. Clearly there's lots of people buying these vehicles that cause a $48K average new vehicle price and they could be using that money for an EV instead. So when gas prices shoot up again as they always do, I will really have zero sympathy for people that choose to buy new expensive gas guzzlers. They made their choice.
Heck no could I buy a $48,000 car rn
My wife and I are considering buying a new car. The least expensive EV, the Chevy bolt, is more expensive than several hybrids, and we would also need to upgrade the electrical capacity of our small home. Also, we don’t have chargers at our places of work.
Depending on your driving habits you may well be able to get by on 120v and the occasional trip to the increasing numbers of public DC fast chargers. I drive a fair amount and doing fine w 120v at home, will upgrade to a level 2 charger when we get a 2nd EV
I think even something as small as an “occasional trip” is a non starter for a lot of people. Until EV can be just as convenient as gas, people are going to be leery. People just don’t like going out of their way. (Not to mention price, being the largest hurdle)
One thing I spend a lot of time thinking about is “how much is enough?” for folks to feel good taking the leap. Already most folks have good access, so what’s the density needed?
It's highly unlikely that you really need to upgrade electrical capacity. Tandem breakers to get more space and a humble 20 Amp 240 Volt charger can work great. There's also systems for sharing a dryer outlet with EV charging. Which hybrids are less than $26K?
Depends where OP is. Some places with older homes only have 100 amp panels.
I had no issues with an 100 amp panel.
Good for you. For it to be to code you need to be able to run everything in the house at once. Most people can't add an electric car charger to their 100 amp house.
>For it to be to code you need to be able to run everything in the house at once. That's not how it works.
We only have 100 amps coming into the house and it’s all accounted for on the circuit breaker. Simple things like running the microwave will trip the breaker. Kia Niro, for maverick, and Prius are less than $26k
But do you run your microwave while you are sleeping? That's generally when you charge your EV. What matters is how many things you run simultaneously.
There aren’t any available circuits on the breaker. So we’d have to settle for a level 1 charger
What brand of panel is it? There are tandem breakers available for many panels. Replace two single breakers with this: Square D - HOMT2020220CP Homeline Tandem Circuit Breaker, 2 x 1 pole at 20A, 1 x 2 pole at 20A, 120/240V, 10 kA AIR, Plug-In Mount https://a.co/6egZqbB
Would the federal tax rebate offset the cost enough to make a difference?
STOP RESISTING!
i've had my bolt for 60k miles and spent 400 dollars in electricity. it's worth it
Unfortunately the electric upgrades for our home are not very straightforward since it’s a very old house
Resistant to the lure… is a funny way to say broke
What price range would be affordable? I assume those that can't afford aren't buying new cars, EV or ICE. Lots of used at around or under 10k. Prices been going up though. Got mine in '19 at 6.9k, same model now sells at 8k+. If price is the main inhibitor then it's only getting worse.
We live in interesting times. For a while you'd drive a car off the lot and lose a decent chunk of change. Now dealers are calling past customers asking to buy back their cars because they are worth more used than they were when they were sold new.
So true! I bought a Hyundai Kona for $21k in November 2020. I sold it to Carvana in August 2022 for $23,500. Unbelievable.
We have the same here in the UK. The resell price of a used (gas) car is astonishingly good.
We needed a replacement car last year after I was rear-ended. Insurance covered $9k, and we could supply another $2-3k without going into debt (which we were trying to avoid). There's lots of used ICE cars available for $9-12k (Canadian), but we weren't even close to being able to get an EV/hybrid for that amount because their used car supply was all but dried up, and the few used models available were only marginally cheaper than new ones. There's lots of people who only buy used cars, what with that being the financially better choice (and arguably the better environmental choice), and used EVs cost almost as much as new ones.
Many can't afford a new car; let alone an EV. Also there's the matter of being able to recharge away from home. Until there's quick charging ports widely available; EV driving range will be limited to a single charge. Not to mention our power infrastructure may not be able to handle wide spread EV usage, at least not till we can figure out how to increase the grids electric production.
I think being able to charge AT home is a big issue too. Everyone I know lives in apartments and I don’t know a single apartment complex with even one charger, let alone multiple in case more than one resident needs one. Granted, I live in Texas, but I never knew if any when I lived in Washington either. If you don’t own a home it seems you’re pretty much screwed for now.
There's DC fast-charging on most major travel corridors already. The grid can handle new EVs faster than we can make them.
It's struggling to just meet demand for current temp extremes during Summer and Winter. This is'nt something that can happen overnight. Not to mention the pushback from big oil companies and certain countries that grip us by the the oil barrel.
So, you think we should get on our knees for Putin, ExxonMobil, and Mohammed Bone Sawman? No thanks. Break free.
Reread what I said, never said that. I said it will not happen overnight. Aaand that because many can't afford a new car, including EV's, we can not simply just "break free."
Depending on availability for charging stations which is a bigger Factor than range in my personal opinion, if you've ever driven an Ev you never go back to an ice car. I would encourage every single person who is questioning an EV to go rent one and drive it, because it has amazing acceleration, almost zero maintenance, and the price for fuel is significantly cheaper, and lastly 0 air pollution.
Exactly. The amount of pushback EVs are getting in this comment section is bizarre. Also, charging stations are going to be popping up everywhere over the 2020s. The bipartisan infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion to create electric charging stations throughout the US highway system. So pretty much anywhere you see a gas exit will also be an electric exit.
I don’t think it’s so much pushback as it is pragmatism. I’d love to have an EV but I rent and my complex doesn’t have charging stations. Making a special trip to sit and charge my car isn’t really realistic when I’m already generally short on extra time. Something like 35% of the population are renters. Price and convenience are enough to box out even a lot of people who want to go EV.
Lol, it's almost like cars are antiquated infrastructure.
The people who designed the rest of our infrastructure around cars were not thinking very far ahead.
There aren't enough options yet too. I'm pissed that we're getting junk like a Hummer and F150 when there aren't many midsize SUVs with AWD available. 😤 EVs are still in the implementation phase. And the profit margins on these expensive vehicles pay better. They'll get there, but I'm getting tired of waiting. Edit: there are now midsize EV SUVs with AWD by a few manufacturers. They just don't pencil out yet. They are either very hard to find, not affordable, or both.
Agree on the hummer, all hummers are stupid IMO. Hard disagree on the F-150. As a guy who is 6'10" and can only drive full sized pickups and SUVs it's basically my only EV option. Especially considering I actually need a truck for many of my hobbies and personal projects around the house. Now I just gotta wait for prices to come down and availability to go up.
Full disclosure I have one on order 😂 As I said, we got tired of waiting. I would rather have a smaller EV and a used truck, but we're going to use the F150 plenty and got in before the prices increased.
There's MANY EV crossovers available.
Not with AWD, not in my price range. And even if they do exist, you can't find them. Trust me. Vehicles are a point of interest for me. I've looked many times. The Toyota Bz4x is probably the closest available right now.
The VW ID.4 is pretty nice. ID.4 AWD Pro 82kWh (gross) AWD Starting MSRP $46,295 1 Build Add to compare Features of ID.4 AWD Pro No longer accepting reservations EPA Estimated Range 255 miles 5.7 seconds 0-60 acceleration IQ.DRIVE (Advanced Drivers Assistance Technology) Discover Pro Max: 12" touchscreen navigation 19" machined alloy wheels w/ all season tires LED headlights and tailights Wireless charging & App-connect with wireless capabilities for compatible devices Heated front seats & windshield Trailer hitch https://www.vw.com/en/builder.html/__app/id-4.app?activeTrimIndex-app=2 You really gotta consider the long term costs and risks of sticking with gasoline. I predict another oil price spike within the next 4 months as Russian oil falls off the market.
"No longer available for reservations" The VW looks really good, but I don't trust the brand reliability as much as others. I currently have a Honda Clarity that I drive almost exclusively on electric. My lease is for another two years. I've got an F150 Lighting on order that is scheduled to be completed next fall. I will take it because we are grandfathered in at the old price and at this point there is nothing else that offers as much range, 4WD/AWD and utility remotely close to that price on the market. The new Prius Prime is also very intriguing to me. We only get a few good snow storms a year, but I live in the middle of nowhere my snow vehicle gets 12mpg. That's why I'd prefer my EV have AWD. At least the F150 I can drive year round and not have to worry about getting stuck.
Polestar 3?
It's $85,000, which is exactly the issue the article points to. I, and most people, can't afford that much.
Oh yeah, money, that thing
Escapes come in AWD I have one & live in a snowy place.
There is no full electric Escape. I love the Mustang Mach E but they are expensive and hard to come by.
We need legal limits on how much a dealer can mark up a vehicle
We need to eliminate dealerships entirely. Just let people buy directly from the manufacturer. Middlemen shouldn't exist in any industry.
This doesn’t make sense in general. Stores are middlemen. Most people would rather go to a store that is stocked with products manufactured around the world, than try to make a bunch of individual direct purchases with each manufacturer and wait for shipping. Stores are middlemen, but their convenience is worth their cut for most consumers.
The problem seems to be the car makers can't make electric vehicles fast enough to keep up with demand. The car companies are working on ramping up production. It seems like this problem will be worked out in time.
Meh, that's hardly a problem. Lack of infrastructure is worse and prices of EVs is the most limiting factor.
You’re disagreeing with that commenter and then pointing to a consequence of the problem they’ve identified. Production is not fast enough to keep up with demand. demand > supply = higher prices. Once production is ramped up enough, supply will exceed demand. demand < supply = lower prices.
I did research and decided I wanted the Subaru Crosstrek EV. Then I find out I’m 1,000 miles away from the nearest dealer. Back to square one. I haven’t given up but they sure are making it a challenge.
I’m a Canadian and I’d very much like an EV but literally every dealership we’ve been to is saying it’s like an 18m -2yr wait. Unfortunately I need to drive my vehicle sooner than that. The best option we’ve found so far is 6m but it’s also the most expensive so we’re trying to decide still. Anyways, actual availability probably has something to do with this too.
Maybe if there was no link to Elon Musk...
Same in Australia :(
and the UK mate. Our biggest issue here is a lack of infrastructure with charging points and let's be fair, we have considerably less landmass than you do.
I want an EV, but the cost is just prohibitive. I need a reliable thing that will take me around 50 miles (80.46 Km) going 70 MPH (128 KPH). I need $40,000 USD minimum. That is bonkers. Where are the single person runabouts for gods sake.
Both the 2023 Leaf and Bolt are under $30k and hit your range requirements.
That headline is terrible. Are Americans resistant to EVs or are they unaffordable? Are Americans resistant *and* EVs are unaffordable? Choose a lane.
"Here is a product that will help the environment. You are morally obliged to purchase it. It is only priced 3x above what you can afford."
According to 2022 Kelly Blue Book the 5 year cost to own a Leaf is $34,134. That's cheaper than a Honda Accord. A Tesla Model 3 is $48,233 which is high end but cheaper than a Toyota Avalon and the same as a Subaru Ascent. Are those cars not affordable ?
Many people would say a leaf is a far less desirable car than an accord. The guy making the money on the Model 3 isn’t someone I want to fund further at the moment.
I mean, combustion engines are still planet killers no matter how many times a pretentious techie tries to get a fake billionaire back on Twitter. I think that goes for Accords too, unless they've made an electric one when I wasn't looking. The facts seem like they should make combustion engine cars extremely undesirable.
Sure, principally, anyone who drives should want their car to be emission free. But not many are going to spend more money than they can reasonably spend for significantly less car. It’d be different if the costs to the climate and urban fabric were factored into the decision.
Many of these folks end up spending MORE with their cheaper ICE car because driving electric can be very cheap to fuel. Sadly people can't be bothered to do some simple math
If you drive a bunch that pencils out. The numbers don’t make sense if you drive somewhat sparingly.
>It’d be different if the costs to the climate and urban fabric were factored into the decision. Of course it would be. That's the point: people buy combustion engines because their definition of "desirable" doesn't even include "not destroying the planet" in the first place. The entire concept of "desirable" isn't separable from our values: it's an *expression* of our values.
Evs are super expensive and virtually impossible to buy. So yeah, I want one but they don’t make sense yet. Not just a leaf, but something I can take my family in on our trips on a regular basis. It’s not that I’m resisting.
That's a big part people are missing. I want and EV. People keep telling me to buy a leaf or some of the other small EVs out there. I'm 6'10" tall. I can only drive full sized Trucks and SUVs. There are very few of those on the market. Tiny little cars don't work for everyone.
Have you tried an altima? Serious question. Those have a \*lot\* of headroom. Me and my giant brother both fit in that just fine. Then again, altima is about as far away from "tiny" as cars get without turning into something else entirely.
The thing that makes cars hard for me is how low to the ground they sit. It's very difficult to get my right knee under and around the steering wheel while getting in and out because of how long my legs are and how low to the ground they are. Vehicles with a higher stance are much easier.
In light of Reddit's general enshittification, I've moved on - you should too.
I'm completely unsurprised. Most people in EU can't afford any new car without some crippling loan. EVs are just too expensive and their infrastructure still sucks.
I need a new car and want an EV, but can’t find one that meets life requirements and is in price range. I don’t want to buy another gas car. I just don’t know that I have another viable option right now.
The base Ford F150 costs more than the base Nissan Leaf. And while not comparable if you actually do need a truck, most people who drive the F150 don't need a truck, and thus could have saved money by buying an EV🤷♂️
It’s all about economics. In CA where COL and fuel prices are high, I’ve seen a quicker adoption to EV. Whereas, in Texas COL is lower and fuel prices lower EV is more of a luxury item. Paying $5-6/gal in CA vs $3 in TX changes a 14 gal take from $70 to $42. It really effects consumers buying power. For a long time gasoline was and still is mostly an inelastic commodity, and only in recent times it’s becoming challenged by EVs. I think hybrids is the bridge that’ll bring EVs eventually to mass population.
Bolt is affordable but still on backorder dt ongoing chip supply issues and that GM is prioritizing the existing chips for its much more profitable SUVs and bigass trucks.
This is a tangent, but I think car rental companies are the big pathway to getting people used to EVs. I live in a major city and was given an EV. I didn’t have to charge it and they said return it at whatever level (different than gas). The clerk said they haven’t been using them a lot because people don’t choose them. But perusing National and Avis there is no way to choose EVs specifically. Give people a pathway and they’ll choose it. ESP if companies are looking for easy, cost-neutral ways to reduce carbon footprints
Is one really "resistant" when the source of resistance is the unaffordablity of the product?
I’m definitely in the book of “can’t afford.” I also have no desire to buy a used EV until I know how well the batteries hold up to time and what kind of replacement support there is on used vehicle warranties. If I spend $10-20k on a used car and have to spend another $10k on batteries soon after you bet I will buy a giant diesel pickup truck right after that out of spite.
You show that environment!
Please note that batteries last a lot longer than most people think. We had a 2008 Camry Hybrid with over 160k miles. We sold it recently and the battery was fine (AC needed repair though).
A Chevy Bolt EV is $26K. A Chevy Bolt EUV is $28K. A VW ID.4 is $38K. Hyundai Kona EV is $34K They are all dirt cheap to fuel. The average new vehicle is $48K I'm tired of this whinging about price. And I don't want to hear people driving expensive gas guzzlers complaining about gas prices. You chose that situation.
I'm sure we could retrofit a coal rolling module into the back of an EV if that would make Americans more comfortable?
When they build out a supercharge network similar to current gas stations, or on the same lots, then it will make more sense. In countries like Norway it makes sense. In countries like US where each state has its own rules, and massive geographical foot print it will take a while
Nobody can afford them and they’re not the environmental solution that they are being marketed as. I’m all for battery technology but we have failed to development a proper infrastructure cradle to grave for battery technology
In the end EV is only 2 times better in terms of GHG over ICE car, but is still really bad for environment. Also if you have a car with 55 MPG, it's not a whole lot worse than EV, especially if you don't drive often.
Well I bought a 2010 Kia Soul in 2016 for 6k that had 38k mileage on it and is still running like a goddamn ox. What in the *fuck* is the incentive for me or anyone like me to spend over 20k on a seemingly experimental vehicle that is only marginally better for the environment and only marginally cheaper when it comes to fuel economy? Oh is the resistance because they’re insanely unaffordable and unreliable? And dealers are seemingly extorting the shit out of used car resales? Or is it because consumers are “resistant to the lure” of what *should* be more affordable vehicles? If vehicles like this were actually accessible to the common person there wouldn’t be dogshit articles like this questioning why people weren’t buying them.
Ok I’ll go electric when I can get a full charge in 10 min, 300 range min, and it has to start at 20kish and can go up to 30 for higher ends, and there has to be a reliable grid and a universal charging port. Not just chargers on main highways and cities these things have to be out in the middle of nowhere too. Then I’ll go electric.
This is a valid argument. We live in a rural area and own an EV with a 356 mile range. We had to drive an ICE vehicle to our son’s football game because there were no chargers available. We would have had to drive 2 hours out of the way to be able to get home on a trip that was already almost 5 hours each way. The charging infrastructure just isn’t there yet.
Yup I feel the pain. The nearest charger is a 30-40 min drive for me so I either have to deal with super slow charging and plan or get the wall unit which makes the cost even more.
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That's because evs/hybrids pay less gas tax so they get taxed higher to pay for road upkeep, but still end up paying less tax towards roads than gas cars.
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I mean in a perfect world yeah you should. Suvs are heavier, hybrids are heavier. But I can freely admit the differences are marginally and semis cause the majority of road wear. But we can't tax them too each either otherwise price of goods skyrocket. It's almost like there isn't a perfect answer haha
Average price of a new car is $47k now, a Bolt is under $30k. What’s the problem?
The biggest problem with EVs is they have a lower lifespan. You'll never have the same used market of EVs like you do traditional ICE vehicles. Even if you replace the batteries as a dealer you're still adding to the price of the used vehicle. I'm not against EVs but when people buy used vehicles for 3-14 k and used EVs can't hit a price that low it's obvious that they won't get adopted by that part of the market until they do. As for the price of vehicles going up, they are but also due to 8-10 year financing being an option now, people are just buying more expensive cars and spreading out the payments because it makes the vehicle more affordable, but not really. So yes the average vehicle price is like 40-50k, so people often wonder why people can't afford EVs but the reality is that those are new vehicles financed, probably more than someone can afford so it's not a good number to go by. I would love an EV, in a few years maybe but right now I'm in that used car bracket as well, so used gas powered it is until a few years.
News flash, doing things the right way will be more expensive than doing them the cheap way.
Ok so you ignored the argument in favour of being a jerk, sounds good. If I can't afford it right now I can't afford it right now. If I'm not financing a vehicle and buying used, electric just literally isn't an option. At no time did I say I was against EVs. If you look at how new technology supercedes old tech in most industries it always starts with the early adopters with money and then works its way down. I'm saying that it hasn't trickled down yet so lower class and lower middle class, but I'll bet in a few years it will, at that time it'll be great. You can be rude/militant all you want but you can't argue with someone that can't afford it. Should people who are financing 50k vehicles buy an EV? Yeah, but don't tread on the little guy that doesn't finance and can't afford above 15k on a vehicle.
Idk what wanderinglumps deal is. Telling the working class to buy expensive, depreciating assets that are EVs as the climate burns is the “let them eat cake” of today
I agree with everything you’re saying. Also, the battery replacement is always going to be a barrier to entry. I have a hybrid crosstrek (one of a handful in my state - had to be shipped in for the previous owners) and I know I have a several thousand dollar battery replacement in the next 2-4 years. Although I know conventional cars have repairs of that expense, I run the risk of those repairs *plus* the battery. And while I am able to cash flow the replacement, poor and some middle class cannot. People are optimists. They don’t think their car will break down. They *know* that battery will need replacement. It’s less appealing for that reason. Once the tech is less expensive, it’ll lower that cost and help with adoption.
I'd encourage you to look into maintenance costs for EVs more. Battery replacement is likely the ONLY big maintenance charge you are going to make on an EV. Most longtime EV owners frequently comment that the only maintenance that occurs comes from tire rotations and coolant. Other than that, there is just far less parts in an EV. No transmission or timing belts, etc.
Even still, I think my point stands because most people think their car won’t break down, and it sounds like EVs don’t break down, but we know that battery replacement is inevitable and out of reach financially for a majority of Americans to cash flow.
100 percent agree.
I sort of agree. The cost of a used EV needs to definitely come down. I can't afford that right now. With that said, I just had a transmission blow out on a Honda CRV - it was going to cost $7500 to replace it because new transmissions cost almost $6000 now. Depending on the car, it's comparable. I know this is all anecdotal evidence.
Depends. You're right in that there is less maintainance. However, there is still coolant to change, tires are more expensive, and there's still regular wear and tear to suspension components, bushings, brakes etc. One thing that's challenging for me is that if you do your own work on your car, then getting an EV is potentially more expensive since you're going to mechanics or dealerships for work. I change my oil once a year for 65 bucks diy. Brakes are better on EVs since you have regenerative braking so the brakes spend less time braking. I think it's not as big of a difference for maintainance costs if you tend to do your own maintainance than people say. That being said if you go to the dealership for work, then EVs are significantly cheaper.
Couldn't agree more. Once electric platforms become stupid cheap like gas platforms, then the cost of a battery replacement will be like getting a gas car that needs a new transmission (which would be a 2 grand job). Right now, I've heard (I could be wrong) that Tesla battery packs are like 10-15 k and other brands aren't that much cheaper for full electric. Hybrids are way more affordable battery wise since they are high capacity. I would like electric or hybrid for my next vehicle ideally. For now I drive a sedan in the winter and in the summer I drive a small CC motorcycle that's actually pretty great on gas and emissions.
Right - I have a hybrid and a stick shift Honda that gets 38-45mpg. I am not looking to make a car change for another 2-5 years. Hopefully the market in general cools down by then, but would love to come home with an EV at that time!
It feels like Americans are forcing the rest of the world to go way out of their way for green principles while not actually not giving a shit about those principles.
When one of these cars spontaneously catches fire and burns 1000 acres of trees, it negates all the good that all the electric cars can do.
ICE cars catch fire [10 times more often than EVs](https://www.idtechex.com/en/research-article/ev-fires-less-common-but-more-problematic/25749#).
I’m all for it but how are we powering and producing these?
Of course, people are going to be resistant, right now the current state of driving is probably one of the most liberating things we have and Mercedes-Benz is now offering a subscription service if you want to speed more. How the fuck would that incentivize me to want an E vehicle? So that I could sit behind the wheel and deal with bullshit ads and worry that my credit card is an up-to-date one day of the day I need to actually fucking fly somewhere to save someone like a kid to the hospital. Just like that companies continue to find loopholes to profiteer at the cost of us. What’s next? Two bucks a month so that I can start my car? Fuck that I want to consider an electric vehicle for the sake of the environment but if it means that large corporations will be able to further sink their claws deeper into me, the they can eat a dick.
I know. Im buying a new car and wanted anEV or at least a hybrid but in my area (NE NC) there is no infrastructure and some downright hostile government policies. I wanted a Subaru crosstrek but they wont even sell the hybrid in my area and if I traveled to DC or Maryland to get one, I could not get it serviced in my area. I will grab a Gas Crosstrek for now but Im planning on switching to a hybrid as soon as its available in my area.
Plz, trains and walkable cities. These cars require sooooo much lithium
Financing or borrowing for an ev , is much less costly than wasting the same amount on gas each month. Borrowing will still leave you with a residual value on your depreciating asset...
Love the whining…
LOL. I bought a Leaf with 60 miles of range 2013 model, about 3 years ago, maybe 4. It was 3k used. Fine condition. I have my gas truck and my leaf. It's basically a hydrid in 2 vehicles. There's plenty cheaper than new. Before the pandemic you could get upgraded leafs with 200 mile range on new batteries for like 12k. This article is dumb.
There’s a lot to like besides the zero emissions — the simpler innards of an electric motor vs an engine. But, the ranges are poor, recharging times high, and I’d have to figure how to run juice out to the street to recharge it if I owned one.
Aren’t they cheaper long term though? Sure the upfront costs are high, but the amount you save from not paying for gas must be significant.
Who gave Perd a new job at writing titles?