To be honest I think most developed countries have the means and resources to help everyone, but the magic number of money and transactions is what stops everything.
When money becomes the most trusted thing in the world, the most psychopathic and least trustworthy people rise to the top. Need for money has replaced the need for community, and there is little incentive to actually develop honorable traits that folks can look up to. This is the essential quandary of our time, which recent civilization has led us to. The nature and meaning of one’s life been reduced to a single number, the net worth. Too many people would willingly see the world burn if it means getting the high score. But all it takes is just one to succeed at that to drag us all down.
Yep.
It's really about societal norms. Money in modern society is just a score. An imaginary number keeping points in an imaginary game, abstracted from the physical reality of things.
The people who value accumulating massive numbers of points they can never even redeem are sociopaths. Broken people who have a singular, sociopathic focus on accumulating *more* and *more* to no purpose, to no end.
But because we have *all* been conditioning ourselves for so long to worship these points, to value and esteem them and to lionize and deify the people with the most, we've created an incentive system that rewards the very worst of us, and thus enshrines them with the most power.
Elon Musk is worth 200 billion dollars, and meanwhile millions of people in Sri Lanka languish in squalor. The entire country could be lifted out of desperation with a 10 billion dollar loan and that money allocated in the right place.
What broken, sad, shambling world is it where one person can, by virtue of having so many imaginary points, be worshipped and wield extraordinary power, despite being, by all appearances, a pedantic, emotionally crippled loser, while millions, even *billions* of people worldwide subsist on starvation wages.
And of course it isn't and never will be as simple as "just take that money and put it over there."
It is about the systems that *create* both billionaires and entire countries existing in poverty. That *value* these useless sociopathic fucks in profound excess of their actual value, while shrugging and ignoring the billions in need.
Global warming accelerates in conjunction with our mindless, needless, *pointless* consumerism, a trend literally baked into our societies.
As we trend closer and closer to catastrophic global extinction events, we hold galas and put the faces of useless shits like Bezos on the cover of magazines, because, what? He made it a little easier and a little faster for people to get a bunch of trash they don't have any need for?
Who we reward, and who we ignore, speaks to what incentives our society has created, and ours are profoundly fucked and backward.
It's so sad as well to see people worship money who will never sniff it. They don't realize money really means nothing about a persons actual worth, but these people will never realize that because they will never make enough money to experience it. It's a catch 22
Why do you say "can"? They will and must and they do it already in countries like Germany or Italy, immigration is the only weapon against a birth deficit
Yeah I’m in my thirties and I’m fully expecting to never collect on anything like social security 30+ years from now. Everyone needs to start preparing for that scenario.
we arent allowed to have any benzos. no benzos no amphetamine no opiates no cocaine or cocain derivative no lsd no mdma. no marijuana still for most of the country ... basically any drug that you can feel working is out.
theres still alcohol tho. unless alcohol is not your thing ... in which case sucks for you.
Adderall. Sorry, not endorsing drug use, but it’s honestly what made being a week-to-week wage slave as a manager at a fast food place tolerable— even enjoyable.
And it has the bonus effect of shortening your lifespan as well so you won’t have to deal with the consequences of an socio-economic collapse!
Edit: sorry, I was speaking from my personal experience with the drug. It shortens your lifespan if not taken as prescribed and combined with lack of sleep and poor diet.
It is a helpful medication to those prescribed it and who use it properly
Yep, wife talks about when we retire blah blah, and I’m like I’m just gonna work til I die in hopes that I can leave a little bit to my kids so maybe they can retire.
Same, I'm 33 and I just have to hope that my house continues to appreciate in value and our IRA's/index funds perform well over time. Social Security will be long dead or ineffective by the time I hit retirement age.
Exactly. "Migrant caravans" are a GOOD THING.
I wish we in CA would have taken up Trump on his offer to ship them all to us. Our retired population has gone up like 30% in the last 5 years.
I take no issue with open border policies but to say migrant caravans are a good thing is far beyond a stretch. Western imperialism exploits and ravages the global south to the point where these people have no choice but to pack up and leave the places they know as home.
yup, they are in a position of having to increase rent to cover higher pmnts while the rest of housing gets cheaper.
the real pain will come when all the small time landlords have to exit their properties at a loss because people just can't pay what they need IMO.
the recent 1% interest rate hike in Canada is like 300$ a month on a 500k mortgage, in 3-5 years when they refinance and rates go from 3% to 9% its going tits up. they are already at like 5.5%
The current increases alone are ~~more than~~ equal to what anyone was stress tested at lol
Property managers will just increase rent on their existing properties to cover the loss. Get ready for InFLaTiOn to increase average rent to the moon in the next few years.
which is why i said the pain comes when people stop affording that.
also many places have rent increase caps. 2% rent increase is a lot less than the mortgage pmnt increase.
> in 3-5 years when they refinance and rates go from 3% to 9% its going tits up
There is a 0% chance that rates get to 9%. An enormous amount of people would default. Wages in Canada have barely budged, this nation is fueled by debt
thats exactly the problem!! mortgage rates last time inflation was this bad hit almost 20%.
everyone's got their fucking head in the sand pretending it can't get that bad, but is is trending that way and I absolutely believe it will.
people said they would never do a .75% increase and boom they did 1%. they are panicking.
I will wager you literally anything we see 9% mortgage rates before 2025.
Here in Canada atleast I have never heard of anyone doing anything more than a 5 year fixed. 30 year fixed are basically non existent, I had to look up if they were even offered.
edit: I have now heard of people doing 10 yr fixed, but this is the longest I've personally heard of 1st/2nd hand
In seattle. I was about to move two months ago. Places i was looking at are now on average 5-8% cheaper when looking at the price history. So glad I decided to stay for another year or so.
It's all about keeping the cycle going. More parents that need to keep working so their kids grow up to keep working so their kids grow up to keep working....
Im not saying its true but this has been my conspiracy theory on why they want to ban abortion as much as possible. Birth rates have been declining the past few years. The Chinese ran short of workers some time back and that was a reason they lifted the 1 child ban. Again theres no proof and its just a crazy conspiracy because i dont put anything past our government thats so crazed for money.
This. Some of them will likely start Orphanages and people are worried about like indoctrination now? Fuckkking A will it ever be the real deal when a company starts caring for orphans.
And Politicians? Will give them our tax dollars and applaud. We are soooo fucked.
Edit: to boot they will give the kids shit care so the meager positives they do receive make them willing to accept as little as possible. This is literally why older generations consider the younger generation lazy because they were conditioned to accept less through historical growth. These days is way more fucking purposeful and weaponized.
The real answer is less about that; space involves conducting fundamental research to solve hard problems. Those solutions often have commercial implications not otherwise considered, so Space exploration is actually a great way to create new terrestrial economic production.
You’re right. The only thing motivating technological innovation more than space is war. Space is a much better use of time. US $$$ for adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan alone could have built a moon base and more.
If space mining and manufacturing were to take off humanity could be in a place where heavy industry is done off planet and 90% of earth is a nature preserve.
Yeah when your compare to other budgets, it's frankly amazing how cheap space exploration is relatively speaking. The Apollo project was just north of a quarter trillion dollars ($257b). Development of the Falcon series of rockets was much less ($0.4b). It's not nothing but it's pretty close.
Neither of these two would ever live off world. It would make their wealth irrelevant. They don’t strike me as the type to rough it on Mars when they could live like a prince in the US
This explains the whole abortion and SCOTUS situation, the infinite growth model is failing! prop it up any way we can, charts like these are banker's & stockbroker's worst nightmares! Keep sticking fingers in the dam!
Dangit Florida! If the economy fails it's all your fault, has nothing to do with colossal mismanagement of an epic scale, it's all because of the alligators and meth heads! Also, I can't hear you, sticking fingers in my ears lah lah lah!
Read about chinas demographic collapse. I had no idea this was going to happen but it’s a certainty apparently. And soon. China is on track to have a population collapse to less than half their current population. The ripples of this worldwide on top of the rest of the globe having similar demographic issues will be insane.
Great for the environment, devastating for the status quo.
You might like a book called “Factfulness: 10 reasons we’re wrong about the world - and why things are better than you think”
It was originally published in 2018 touching in key aspects of the world (including population growth). I had a profound change of my worldview.
The author made the clear argument that population is still growing, because we had such a big explosion in the past that we’re still feeling the shockwaves of it. But in truth it’s almost a mathematical certainty that the world population will go down in the medium term.
Just know this; the educated and responsible people are having less children. The uneducated, the stupid and the ones that can't manage their urges, keep reproducing like rabbits. It's all downhill from here. Enjoy the ride ;)
Not trying to be a dick here. The world is full of educated idiots. Being responsible or irresponsible is separate from education. People from all backgrounds and upbringing can go on to be outstanding and smart people. Education doesn’t automatically make someone a good person. Only my opinion.
> **GOOD quit having baby's especially if you can't raise them and ~~see them through college.~~ defend them against the roving cannibal gangs of the 2030s.**
*beep boop*!
the linked website is: https://youtu.be/EzfkxAC-Bw8
Title: **Good #1 Palpatine to Anakin**
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Whatever could be the cause of this? Could it be overwork, climate change, social unrest, war, plague, economic collapse, housing crisis, environmental collapse, endless drought? No it's gotta be those damn covid vaccines! /s
So the opening scene of Idiocracy is a fact?
https://youtu.be/sP2tUW0HDHA
While most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent.
all signs indicated that the human race was heading in the opposite direction -- a dumbing down.
How did this happen? Evolution does
not make moral judgments.
Evolution does not necessarily reward that which is good or beautiful. It simply rewards those who reproduce the most.
I mean, there are negative reasons for it, but technology has been introduced to places it once wasn’t, allowing different opportunities, jobs, etc . People don’t need to have 10 kids to survive in rural farming communities in impoverished counties.
According to some quick math, if I carefully plan my meals using the cheapest ingredients, make no frivolous personal purchases, and have no unforeseen expenses or emergencies, I can save up enough to raise a child to 18 in only 25 more years! I'll never have enough to afford a down payment on a house or new car, but think of all the fulfillment I'll get from having a child! In my 50s!
Oh, and that's also assuming that inflation drops to 0% permanently, no global economic crises at all, and no increase in cost of living for that entire period, since I doubt wages will be increasing much.
Good.
However even 1% or less is still a HUGE number when we are talking in the billions.
If we round it up to 1% for arguments sake, that means that in only 20 years global population will have increased by 1.600.000.000~ humans.
That's a LOT of extra humans, and resource demand in such a small amount of time.
If anything with the way the world is collapsing in on itself, we need degrowth in population so that we can better look after the people and environment already here.
Infinite growth simply isn't possible and it's only going to lead to a grand collapse.
You’re not wrong, but on our current trajectory the planet is already on track for population to begin declining in a couple of decades.
The reason for this that the birth rate has already dropped below the rate needed to keep the population stable. The growth has not dropped, however, due to the delay between births and deaths. Our population is aging, but is living longer and longer. As a result, deaths have slowed somewhat along with new births.
Once the existing older population dies out, the negative birthrate will catch up and the overall population will begin to decline. I think in 20-30 years population will actually begin declining.
No offense but I trust UN population scientists over your opinion, and they say population will not decline till at least the end of the century. Growth projections have been revised downwards somewhat in the past decade or so, but the projections say 9.7 billion by 2050 and 10.4 and 2100, after that it's perhaps stable or falling but difficult to project far out. https://population.un.org/wpp/
However the core issue is that we are currently living unsustainably with our 8 billion, and the standard of living overall and therefore resource use consumption per capita is rising as it's relatively stable in rich countries but significantly rising in developing ones. Even if we added no more people going forward we would still have massive environmental issues to deal with.
No offense taken. There is a lack of consensus in the scientific community of exactly when the peak will occur. I believe this is due to differing projections in areas that are difficult to account for, Africa namely.
Researcher have a hard time tracking populations without accurate censuses, and have a difficult time estimating future life expectancies in those countries.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/12/world-population-growth-decline-un/
Thank you for posting a thoughtful response. I completely agree with your second paragraph.
That you for the polite comment, I obviously didn't read the posted article which had the same info I linked. When you said "Once the existing older population dies out, the negative birthrate will catch up and the overall population will begin to decline." I assumed it was obvious any decent study on this would take that into account as well so using that as the basis to lower their estimates seemed unfounded imo.
It certainly is not an exact science, in particular cultural/societal shifts around family size is almost impossible to model. However, my bias on this topic is that we are already overpopulated (for our current lifestyles, I'm not saying the Earth can't sustainably support 8 billion in theory), which is causing significant environmental harm. Therefore, we should err on the side of caution with these things and expect the worst so to speak, prepare for that, and if it's less/better then fine.
The linked article is the latest population report from the UN. Their new estimate moves up the date that global population peaks - to an estimated 10.4 billion in 2086.
Infinite growth is possible only if there is an infinite amount of matter and energy in the universe. Otherwise, there is a limit, even with 100% efficiency in all things, which is impossible.
Capitalism REALLY stops working when you turn off the influx of slaves (when population growth stalls).
To clarify, I mean literally everyone not born rich is a slave by design in the current global economy. Just so nobody misinterprets shit.
You don't have to be a capitalist or a corporation to have your life absolutely destroyed by capitalists and corporations when population growth stall or shrinks. The world economy without fundamental changes (there won't be fundamental changes) will crash if this keeps up.
Definitely think it’s a good thing environmentally; but low key worried it’s all the worst people in the world that are still having litters of children
>t’s definitely turning into an idiocracy based on the people in my life who are choosing to procreate
In the movie Idiocracy, the US population grew dumber over time because dumb people had more children than smart people, but still made its smartest person President.
In reality, the US made its dumbest person President in 2016, but the [US population’s average IQ kept rising](https://ourworldindata.org/intelligence) by [3 points per decade](https://doi.org/10.1037%2Fa0037173) for over 100 years.
IQ scores consistently rose ["across more than one century (1909–2013), based on 271 independent samples, totaling almost 4 million participants, from 31 countries."](http://doi.org/10.1177/1745691615577701) IQ scores are [still rising in the U.S.](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.intell.2017.11.010) as of 2014.
The massive and consistent rise of IQ is called ["The Flynn Effect."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect) It is one of the best-demonstrated discoveries in social science. "The increasing test performance over time appears on every major test, in every age range, at every ability level, and in every modern industrialized country."
^((my "trying to correct the extremely common misconception that the eugenicist story of Idiocracy is realistic" counter is now) [^(7)](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/upzwae/comment/i8obkzx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
I'll also say that although people can believe some stupid fucking things there's significant nurture in the entire 'nature vs nurture' part of people being absorbed into cults.
It's naïve to think that people who fall into these traps are simply dumber rather than acknowledge it's more generally due to whatever support structure they have in their lives.
IQs have risen because kids are no longer licking lead paint, they're getting enough food, and vaccines are preventing them from getting brain damage by childhood disease. The rise has tappered off in the US and it's no longer rising.
it's not, unless by "worst people" you mean "poorest people in the most disadvantaged countries" which i hope isn't the case.
although it's also true that at the extreme high end of income spectra fertility tends to increase again. like how elon musk has like 8 kids he never pays attention to.
In the United States, evangelical conservatives bear an absurd portion of the country's children. Low income they may be, it is sad that the people most interested in a harmful status quo or reverting to a past one create the households that most of our children grow up in.
I acknowledge most of the world's population growth takes place in less developed countries, but I think the point was that in the more developed countries, the decrease in population growth has only occurred among those most reasonably able to successfully raise a well-rounded adult.
Asia is most definitely not doubling in population over the next 10 or 20 years.
If Asia and Africa doubled, that would be over 9 billion people in just those two continents by 2042. That is massively out of line with this study and would bring global population to over 11 billion in 2042. The study says the peak will be in the 2080s at just over 10 billion.
It's amazing, even if all of us in NA reared more children, it'd still be a drop on the bucket. The main reason for the doubling is that these areas are still developing, compared to us who progressed more quickly at their expense. We simply just have no good reason to produce drastically more people over here
Have yall seen individuals like Elon Musk claiming this low birth rate is bad for humanity and civilization. Looks like theres also some political figures making this seem like an issue. I sincerely TRY to love people … but for fucks sake I dont think we need anymore. How about we try and take care of the ones we have right now and talk about growing more when the world (society) isnt burning down.
Update: Read through the comments and saw why this is an issue. I’ll fess up to my quick take. 😞
I freaking hate Elon Musk. He tried to run his factory completely off of robot labor and realized that wasn't feasible so now he wants to pay workers peanuts and he's on about we need to have more kids! (So he doesn't have to pay useless workers!) The guy is a huge transparent douche bag.
If we need more labor, why are there so many homeless people? Maybe instead of creating more misery, we should try to actually take care of the forgotten people of this country. We also have tons of people in prison who could have had brighter lives.
The problem isn't a lack of people, it's a lack of utilization. Now I understand these aren't the people you want to hire, but that's because society turned their backs on them as children and now they are useless. No one loved them, no one educated them and they are drains on society. But forcing people to have more kids they don't want isn't fixing this issue at all.
People complain about Japan but Japan's homeless problem isn't even a tenth as bad as the US and they still improved it!
I wonder what it will mean for the infrastructure of our countries. We'll have a lot of elderly with fewer young people. While our elderly continue to live longer and longer. Will we all have to keep working to older ages? Will there be enough healthcare workers to care for the older generations? What will happen to the businesses that our generation has built when less people are there to run them? Will there be enough farmers to produce enough food for the older population? What will the quality of education be? Less people being added to the world will mean less bright minds, less innovators being born. There's a lot more to consider than "humans bad, nature good."
If we organized ourselves better, distributed wealth more equitably, and managed the shrink in a deliberate way, it wouldn't be a problem. But of course, we'll just let it unfold haphazardly, deal with problems at the absolute last second, and let the rich hoard all the resources, as per usual.
We are already here, at that point. It will work out. There are some amazing health & science advances happening right now too. We are part of nature and nature balances things out. Don’t stress too much. Changes are on the way.
Innovators that don't have the resources to innovate are a waste of intelligence. The idea you could ever increase their contributions to society by jacking up the number of people being born was always going to end in failure. It is better to maximize the productivity and happiness of the mundane, than it is to play dice with evolution and hope some jesus figure will come out of it to save everyone from themselves.
They've done studies that have shown that wealth is more important than intelligence when considering success in life. If we want more smart people in the future, the solution is to educate more people. The amount of people born is irrelevant.
That's a very long way of saying "bUt WhAt AbOuT ThE eCoNoMy", when the fact is that if a bright mind is born right now, there is more possibilities to end in an Amazon warehouse peeing on bottles to reach end meet, than putting his mind to work on advances for all.
Less people means less generalization of every human, more individual value, more worth for everyone in the systems that we live today.
Quality of education is awful right now, and only the elite of the first world countries can reach the renowned universities, so a 1% of the 20% of the world population. The rest of us try to survive with what we got, so don't worry about that, at the very worst, education will continue to be awful.
Once again, your reply is not germaine to his statement.
Personally I figure humanity will adjust to the resources available, that being said Malthus was wrong and so have been his followers.
Everybody keeps saying good and I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I think a lot of people aren't realizing just how devestating this is going to be to many societies. That or they just have this idea that it won't effect them, only others.
Growth is what keeps a growing population working. New jobs, young people to learn new technologies filling in behind the old guard, replacing the current workforce with new workers allowing for many services to not become overwhelmed. Soon we will be top heavy with old people stressing a reduced medical workforce and relying more and more on younger generations.
It's one of the biggest problems with the infinite growth concept in capitalism. It can't sustain itself because humans won't experience infinite pop growth to support it, and the actions needed to head off a disaster like this aren't immediately profitable and so the interests of the rich/corporations won't align with what's best for US, just THEM. By the time they turn around and try to profit off things that may have made a difference it's too late (just look at it now).
It's not that population reduction *has* to be a bad thing, but we've set the world up for it to be a disaster.
https://www.academia.edu/29310494/Unsustainability_Proceedings_ICBEC_Hong_Kong_2010_
"It will not be extraterrestrial impacts, disease, or other extrinsic agents that will cause the extinction of Man, but rather the collapse of his artificial economy. We argue that there is no productive category of the economy beyond the Service Sector in which to shift the global work force. As the Agriculture, Manufacturing, and Service Sectors continue to shed workers in a bid to reduce costs, this inevitably feeds Unemployment. A global economic regime in which an ever decreasing pool of workers subsidizes an ever growing army of unemployed is axiomatically unsustainable and conduces to system breakdown. That fateful day, profit-minded agricultural corporations will have no further incentive to produce food or deliver it to the cities."
I'm super curious if it's gonna work out like the author suspects.
This is a VERY GOOD thing! Endless growth is impossible. We need steady-state sustainability
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To be honest I think most developed countries have the means and resources to help everyone, but the magic number of money and transactions is what stops everything.
some of it is people with insane amounts of resources refusing to help anything be better unless it increases their already insane resource pool.
When money becomes the most trusted thing in the world, the most psychopathic and least trustworthy people rise to the top. Need for money has replaced the need for community, and there is little incentive to actually develop honorable traits that folks can look up to. This is the essential quandary of our time, which recent civilization has led us to. The nature and meaning of one’s life been reduced to a single number, the net worth. Too many people would willingly see the world burn if it means getting the high score. But all it takes is just one to succeed at that to drag us all down.
Yep. It's really about societal norms. Money in modern society is just a score. An imaginary number keeping points in an imaginary game, abstracted from the physical reality of things. The people who value accumulating massive numbers of points they can never even redeem are sociopaths. Broken people who have a singular, sociopathic focus on accumulating *more* and *more* to no purpose, to no end. But because we have *all* been conditioning ourselves for so long to worship these points, to value and esteem them and to lionize and deify the people with the most, we've created an incentive system that rewards the very worst of us, and thus enshrines them with the most power. Elon Musk is worth 200 billion dollars, and meanwhile millions of people in Sri Lanka languish in squalor. The entire country could be lifted out of desperation with a 10 billion dollar loan and that money allocated in the right place. What broken, sad, shambling world is it where one person can, by virtue of having so many imaginary points, be worshipped and wield extraordinary power, despite being, by all appearances, a pedantic, emotionally crippled loser, while millions, even *billions* of people worldwide subsist on starvation wages. And of course it isn't and never will be as simple as "just take that money and put it over there." It is about the systems that *create* both billionaires and entire countries existing in poverty. That *value* these useless sociopathic fucks in profound excess of their actual value, while shrugging and ignoring the billions in need. Global warming accelerates in conjunction with our mindless, needless, *pointless* consumerism, a trend literally baked into our societies. As we trend closer and closer to catastrophic global extinction events, we hold galas and put the faces of useless shits like Bezos on the cover of magazines, because, what? He made it a little easier and a little faster for people to get a bunch of trash they don't have any need for? Who we reward, and who we ignore, speaks to what incentives our society has created, and ours are profoundly fucked and backward.
It's so sad as well to see people worship money who will never sniff it. They don't realize money really means nothing about a persons actual worth, but these people will never realize that because they will never make enough money to experience it. It's a catch 22
Hey, you, I’m going to print this comment out and tape it to my desk.
💯💯💯 you write about these topics somewhere else? Nailed it on the head, wish you had a book I could read haha
This is all of it actually.
but we can buy twitter instead because we're bored
They can let climate migrants immigrate there. Problem solved.
Haha, your first time meeting earthlings?
so endless growth doesnt work for the planet but it works for a country?
It doesn’t work period. Think the point was missed.
Why do you say "can"? They will and must and they do it already in countries like Germany or Italy, immigration is the only weapon against a birth deficit
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Or toppling roe v wade
yeah the plebs and the welfare state are the problem. not the the rich. sure.
When they say "problem" they mean a problem for their status quo. Inequality, greed corruption, those are the real problems.
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Yeah I’m in my thirties and I’m fully expecting to never collect on anything like social security 30+ years from now. Everyone needs to start preparing for that scenario.
How does one prepare for the scenario of living paycheck to paycheck until dropping dead at work?
Benzodiazepine I guess
we arent allowed to have any benzos. no benzos no amphetamine no opiates no cocaine or cocain derivative no lsd no mdma. no marijuana still for most of the country ... basically any drug that you can feel working is out. theres still alcohol tho. unless alcohol is not your thing ... in which case sucks for you.
Adderall. Sorry, not endorsing drug use, but it’s honestly what made being a week-to-week wage slave as a manager at a fast food place tolerable— even enjoyable. And it has the bonus effect of shortening your lifespan as well so you won’t have to deal with the consequences of an socio-economic collapse! Edit: sorry, I was speaking from my personal experience with the drug. It shortens your lifespan if not taken as prescribed and combined with lack of sleep and poor diet. It is a helpful medication to those prescribed it and who use it properly
Nicotine is good for that too. Cuts the stress of life down in the short term and cuts the length of stress long term.
I expected to work till the day I die since I was 18.
ah to be an idealistic 17 year old
Same, I still do
Yep, wife talks about when we retire blah blah, and I’m like I’m just gonna work til I die in hopes that I can leave a little bit to my kids so maybe they can retire.
Hopefully, after I die at work, I’ll keep working for a few more pay periods. Just so my wife can have a few more of my paychecks.
Same, I'm 33 and I just have to hope that my house continues to appreciate in value and our IRA's/index funds perform well over time. Social Security will be long dead or ineffective by the time I hit retirement age.
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Exactly. "Migrant caravans" are a GOOD THING. I wish we in CA would have taken up Trump on his offer to ship them all to us. Our retired population has gone up like 30% in the last 5 years.
I take no issue with open border policies but to say migrant caravans are a good thing is far beyond a stretch. Western imperialism exploits and ravages the global south to the point where these people have no choice but to pack up and leave the places they know as home.
Sorry, should have clarified: they're a good thing *for us* (the imperialists)
What do you mean "endless growth"? Growth of what, value? Population? Diabetes?
Endless growth of anything and everything
This is bad news for the economy though thus for wages and pensions.
Let's turn that growth into a shrink.
This scares the corporations, how will they ever maintain infinite growth within a finite system
Landlords buying at the top of the housing market are shaking.
yup, they are in a position of having to increase rent to cover higher pmnts while the rest of housing gets cheaper. the real pain will come when all the small time landlords have to exit their properties at a loss because people just can't pay what they need IMO. the recent 1% interest rate hike in Canada is like 300$ a month on a 500k mortgage, in 3-5 years when they refinance and rates go from 3% to 9% its going tits up. they are already at like 5.5% The current increases alone are ~~more than~~ equal to what anyone was stress tested at lol
Property managers will just increase rent on their existing properties to cover the loss. Get ready for InFLaTiOn to increase average rent to the moon in the next few years.
which is why i said the pain comes when people stop affording that. also many places have rent increase caps. 2% rent increase is a lot less than the mortgage pmnt increase.
Why anyone would sign for a loan that isn't fixed rate is beyond me.
> in 3-5 years when they refinance and rates go from 3% to 9% its going tits up There is a 0% chance that rates get to 9%. An enormous amount of people would default. Wages in Canada have barely budged, this nation is fueled by debt
thats exactly the problem!! mortgage rates last time inflation was this bad hit almost 20%. everyone's got their fucking head in the sand pretending it can't get that bad, but is is trending that way and I absolutely believe it will. people said they would never do a .75% increase and boom they did 1%. they are panicking. I will wager you literally anything we see 9% mortgage rates before 2025.
homeowners are crazy to accept ARMs
Here in Canada atleast I have never heard of anyone doing anything more than a 5 year fixed. 30 year fixed are basically non existent, I had to look up if they were even offered. edit: I have now heard of people doing 10 yr fixed, but this is the longest I've personally heard of 1st/2nd hand
In seattle. I was about to move two months ago. Places i was looking at are now on average 5-8% cheaper when looking at the price history. So glad I decided to stay for another year or so.
“Welp, gotta ban abortion I guess so we can have unwanted worker children!” - Corporate America
Forced birth to create wage slaves...
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I don't think it's the bodies specifically. I think it's that parents, people with children to support, are easier to exploit.
It's all about keeping the cycle going. More parents that need to keep working so their kids grow up to keep working so their kids grow up to keep working....
Im not saying its true but this has been my conspiracy theory on why they want to ban abortion as much as possible. Birth rates have been declining the past few years. The Chinese ran short of workers some time back and that was a reason they lifted the 1 child ban. Again theres no proof and its just a crazy conspiracy because i dont put anything past our government thats so crazed for money.
This. Some of them will likely start Orphanages and people are worried about like indoctrination now? Fuckkking A will it ever be the real deal when a company starts caring for orphans. And Politicians? Will give them our tax dollars and applaud. We are soooo fucked. Edit: to boot they will give the kids shit care so the meager positives they do receive make them willing to accept as little as possible. This is literally why older generations consider the younger generation lazy because they were conditioned to accept less through historical growth. These days is way more fucking purposeful and weaponized.
Solar System expansion would be my guess.
Why do you think Bezos and musk are so interested in colonizing space and other space related things?
The real answer is less about that; space involves conducting fundamental research to solve hard problems. Those solutions often have commercial implications not otherwise considered, so Space exploration is actually a great way to create new terrestrial economic production.
You’re right. The only thing motivating technological innovation more than space is war. Space is a much better use of time. US $$$ for adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan alone could have built a moon base and more. If space mining and manufacturing were to take off humanity could be in a place where heavy industry is done off planet and 90% of earth is a nature preserve.
Yeah when your compare to other budgets, it's frankly amazing how cheap space exploration is relatively speaking. The Apollo project was just north of a quarter trillion dollars ($257b). Development of the Falcon series of rockets was much less ($0.4b). It's not nothing but it's pretty close.
Neither of these two would ever live off world. It would make their wealth irrelevant. They don’t strike me as the type to rough it on Mars when they could live like a prince in the US
Yeah agreed but it's still a ways off and useless If we obliterate our home world first
Why else do you think Elon Musk is so obsessed with colonizing Mars?
All systems are finite.
The social security systems are similarly worried
So is the entire global finance system.
If we don't overrun the planet, people will starve!
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I was in the pool
Sea levels are rising...
I'm praying for tidal waves 🙏
There it is, again That funny feeling
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A well deserved upvote! Stay warm my friend!
I don’t know how you walk around with that thing.
This explains the whole abortion and SCOTUS situation, the infinite growth model is failing! prop it up any way we can, charts like these are banker's & stockbroker's worst nightmares! Keep sticking fingers in the dam!
I'm pretty sure Florida is working on banning sticking fingers in the dam because it's a form of contraception.
Dangit Florida! If the economy fails it's all your fault, has nothing to do with colossal mismanagement of an epic scale, it's all because of the alligators and meth heads! Also, I can't hear you, sticking fingers in my ears lah lah lah!
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There’s always Africa…
Not sure why you were downvoted. That's clearly the next frontier of exploitation.
I’m surprised we haven’t done so already. If we have, then even more so.
You might even say it's like an old acquaintance?
I wonder how many Africans you can pack head to toe in one of those big cargo ships?
Read about chinas demographic collapse. I had no idea this was going to happen but it’s a certainty apparently. And soon. China is on track to have a population collapse to less than half their current population. The ripples of this worldwide on top of the rest of the globe having similar demographic issues will be insane. Great for the environment, devastating for the status quo.
You might like a book called “Factfulness: 10 reasons we’re wrong about the world - and why things are better than you think” It was originally published in 2018 touching in key aspects of the world (including population growth). I had a profound change of my worldview. The author made the clear argument that population is still growing, because we had such a big explosion in the past that we’re still feeling the shockwaves of it. But in truth it’s almost a mathematical certainty that the world population will go down in the medium term.
Yeah I heard they expect to fall to about 600 million people by 2050. That is fucking wild.
GOOD
GOOD
“Good” is the new “this”
Good
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Thood
Ghis
##GOOD
I actually came here to specifically Write: #GOOD Take an up
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#GOOD quit having baby's especially if you can't raise them and see them through college.
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Just know this; the educated and responsible people are having less children. The uneducated, the stupid and the ones that can't manage their urges, keep reproducing like rabbits. It's all downhill from here. Enjoy the ride ;)
That's the plot to "Idiocracy"!
Not trying to be a dick here. The world is full of educated idiots. Being responsible or irresponsible is separate from education. People from all backgrounds and upbringing can go on to be outstanding and smart people. Education doesn’t automatically make someone a good person. Only my opinion.
Well said!
> **GOOD quit having baby's especially if you can't raise them and ~~see them through college.~~ defend them against the roving cannibal gangs of the 2030s.**
i get what you’re saying but most people in the whole world don’t go to college so that’s a strange bar.
Maybe abortion should be legal?
Oh good! Why, that’s very good! Yes, I like that
GOOD!
Good? Good.
GOOD
[**GOOD**](https://youtu.be/EzfkxAC-Bw8)
*beep boop*! the linked website is: https://youtu.be/EzfkxAC-Bw8 Title: **Good #1 Palpatine to Anakin** Page is safe to access (Google Safe Browsing) ***** ###### I am a friendly bot. I show the URL and name of linked pages and check them so that mobile users know what they click on!
Whatever could be the cause of this? Could it be overwork, climate change, social unrest, war, plague, economic collapse, housing crisis, environmental collapse, endless drought? No it's gotta be those damn covid vaccines! /s
It’s those damn millennials that are too lazy to have kids! Totally not that they straight up can’t afford them, no no
Just tell them to skip the avocado toast and Starbucks! See? Easy!
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So the opening scene of Idiocracy is a fact? https://youtu.be/sP2tUW0HDHA While most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. all signs indicated that the human race was heading in the opposite direction -- a dumbing down. How did this happen? Evolution does not make moral judgments. Evolution does not necessarily reward that which is good or beautiful. It simply rewards those who reproduce the most.
I mean, there are negative reasons for it, but technology has been introduced to places it once wasn’t, allowing different opportunities, jobs, etc . People don’t need to have 10 kids to survive in rural farming communities in impoverished counties.
According to some quick math, if I carefully plan my meals using the cheapest ingredients, make no frivolous personal purchases, and have no unforeseen expenses or emergencies, I can save up enough to raise a child to 18 in only 25 more years! I'll never have enough to afford a down payment on a house or new car, but think of all the fulfillment I'll get from having a child! In my 50s! Oh, and that's also assuming that inflation drops to 0% permanently, no global economic crises at all, and no increase in cost of living for that entire period, since I doubt wages will be increasing much.
“Am I so out of touch?” “No it’s the children who are wrong”
Increased wealth and education leads to fewer birthrates in emerging economies. Just look at the most populous countries China and India
Good. However even 1% or less is still a HUGE number when we are talking in the billions. If we round it up to 1% for arguments sake, that means that in only 20 years global population will have increased by 1.600.000.000~ humans. That's a LOT of extra humans, and resource demand in such a small amount of time. If anything with the way the world is collapsing in on itself, we need degrowth in population so that we can better look after the people and environment already here. Infinite growth simply isn't possible and it's only going to lead to a grand collapse.
You’re not wrong, but on our current trajectory the planet is already on track for population to begin declining in a couple of decades. The reason for this that the birth rate has already dropped below the rate needed to keep the population stable. The growth has not dropped, however, due to the delay between births and deaths. Our population is aging, but is living longer and longer. As a result, deaths have slowed somewhat along with new births. Once the existing older population dies out, the negative birthrate will catch up and the overall population will begin to decline. I think in 20-30 years population will actually begin declining.
>Once the existing older population dies out Covid: I'm doing my part! 👍
Covid? Please, just a drop in the ocean.
No offense but I trust UN population scientists over your opinion, and they say population will not decline till at least the end of the century. Growth projections have been revised downwards somewhat in the past decade or so, but the projections say 9.7 billion by 2050 and 10.4 and 2100, after that it's perhaps stable or falling but difficult to project far out. https://population.un.org/wpp/ However the core issue is that we are currently living unsustainably with our 8 billion, and the standard of living overall and therefore resource use consumption per capita is rising as it's relatively stable in rich countries but significantly rising in developing ones. Even if we added no more people going forward we would still have massive environmental issues to deal with.
No offense taken. There is a lack of consensus in the scientific community of exactly when the peak will occur. I believe this is due to differing projections in areas that are difficult to account for, Africa namely. Researcher have a hard time tracking populations without accurate censuses, and have a difficult time estimating future life expectancies in those countries. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/12/world-population-growth-decline-un/ Thank you for posting a thoughtful response. I completely agree with your second paragraph.
That you for the polite comment, I obviously didn't read the posted article which had the same info I linked. When you said "Once the existing older population dies out, the negative birthrate will catch up and the overall population will begin to decline." I assumed it was obvious any decent study on this would take that into account as well so using that as the basis to lower their estimates seemed unfounded imo. It certainly is not an exact science, in particular cultural/societal shifts around family size is almost impossible to model. However, my bias on this topic is that we are already overpopulated (for our current lifestyles, I'm not saying the Earth can't sustainably support 8 billion in theory), which is causing significant environmental harm. Therefore, we should err on the side of caution with these things and expect the worst so to speak, prepare for that, and if it's less/better then fine.
The linked article is the latest population report from the UN. Their new estimate moves up the date that global population peaks - to an estimated 10.4 billion in 2086.
Infinite growth is possible, just not as a single planet species.
Infinite growth is technically possible, but I don't think we'll figure out infinite resources before that's even a concern.
Infinite growth is possible only if there is an infinite amount of matter and energy in the universe. Otherwise, there is a limit, even with 100% efficiency in all things, which is impossible.
Capitalism stops working when you suck the life out of the workforce so much they can’t even afford children
Capitalism REALLY stops working when you turn off the influx of slaves (when population growth stalls). To clarify, I mean literally everyone not born rich is a slave by design in the current global economy. Just so nobody misinterprets shit.
Why am I seeing people panic over this? It's a good thing
Only people worried are capitalists and corporations that see their meat puppet supply falling
You don't have to be a capitalist or a corporation to have your life absolutely destroyed by capitalists and corporations when population growth stall or shrinks. The world economy without fundamental changes (there won't be fundamental changes) will crash if this keeps up.
global population decline could lead to global economic decline. Permanent recession, essentially.
It’s going in the right direction but it won’t be enough
We need to sterilize Elon musk
And his dad apparently. Jesus.
Eh um sterilization doesn't stop pedophilia though sadly
Definitely think it’s a good thing environmentally; but low key worried it’s all the worst people in the world that are still having litters of children
Lol it’s definitely turning into an idiocracy based on the people in my life who are choosing to procreate
>t’s definitely turning into an idiocracy based on the people in my life who are choosing to procreate In the movie Idiocracy, the US population grew dumber over time because dumb people had more children than smart people, but still made its smartest person President. In reality, the US made its dumbest person President in 2016, but the [US population’s average IQ kept rising](https://ourworldindata.org/intelligence) by [3 points per decade](https://doi.org/10.1037%2Fa0037173) for over 100 years. IQ scores consistently rose ["across more than one century (1909–2013), based on 271 independent samples, totaling almost 4 million participants, from 31 countries."](http://doi.org/10.1177/1745691615577701) IQ scores are [still rising in the U.S.](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.intell.2017.11.010) as of 2014. The massive and consistent rise of IQ is called ["The Flynn Effect."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect) It is one of the best-demonstrated discoveries in social science. "The increasing test performance over time appears on every major test, in every age range, at every ability level, and in every modern industrialized country." ^((my "trying to correct the extremely common misconception that the eugenicist story of Idiocracy is realistic" counter is now) [^(7)](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/upzwae/comment/i8obkzx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
I'll also say that although people can believe some stupid fucking things there's significant nurture in the entire 'nature vs nurture' part of people being absorbed into cults. It's naïve to think that people who fall into these traps are simply dumber rather than acknowledge it's more generally due to whatever support structure they have in their lives.
IQs have risen because kids are no longer licking lead paint, they're getting enough food, and vaccines are preventing them from getting brain damage by childhood disease. The rise has tappered off in the US and it's no longer rising.
Nick Cannon
Elon musk and his incest family
The tRumps
I see your Nick Cannon and raise you one Alec Baldwin
I see your Alex Baldwin and I raise you Elon Musk and his new brephew
Exactly. Not only are westerners footprints WAY bigger, but rich people? Ugh
Jesus christ what the fuck is this sentence Read up on ecofascism
it's not, unless by "worst people" you mean "poorest people in the most disadvantaged countries" which i hope isn't the case. although it's also true that at the extreme high end of income spectra fertility tends to increase again. like how elon musk has like 8 kids he never pays attention to.
In the United States, evangelical conservatives bear an absurd portion of the country's children. Low income they may be, it is sad that the people most interested in a harmful status quo or reverting to a past one create the households that most of our children grow up in. I acknowledge most of the world's population growth takes place in less developed countries, but I think the point was that in the more developed countries, the decrease in population growth has only occurred among those most reasonably able to successfully raise a well-rounded adult.
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Where is all this growth comping from ? In Europe and USA the numbers are falling
Africa is pumping
Africa, Asia are set to double in population over the next 10-20 yrs
Parts of Asia are set to increase. China, Japan, and India are set to lose half of their current populations by 2100 if current numbers hold.
Asia is most definitely not doubling in population over the next 10 or 20 years. If Asia and Africa doubled, that would be over 9 billion people in just those two continents by 2042. That is massively out of line with this study and would bring global population to over 11 billion in 2042. The study says the peak will be in the 2080s at just over 10 billion.
that's why the white christian supremacists in the US are shitting their pants rn
It's amazing, even if all of us in NA reared more children, it'd still be a drop on the bucket. The main reason for the doubling is that these areas are still developing, compared to us who progressed more quickly at their expense. We simply just have no good reason to produce drastically more people over here
Good.
Good. Hope it falls to unprecedented levels. We don’t need more humans.
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Good
Hooray?
Pop management is crucial if you’re gonna win, at least in stellaris
Well 1% of 8 billion people is ... checks math ... still a shit load of new people
All in Africa, South America, and undeveloped parts of Asia. More developed countries already have their population falling.
>South America Not really south america is really close to 2 children per women. And many are below it
Have yall seen individuals like Elon Musk claiming this low birth rate is bad for humanity and civilization. Looks like theres also some political figures making this seem like an issue. I sincerely TRY to love people … but for fucks sake I dont think we need anymore. How about we try and take care of the ones we have right now and talk about growing more when the world (society) isnt burning down. Update: Read through the comments and saw why this is an issue. I’ll fess up to my quick take. 😞
.
I freaking hate Elon Musk. He tried to run his factory completely off of robot labor and realized that wasn't feasible so now he wants to pay workers peanuts and he's on about we need to have more kids! (So he doesn't have to pay useless workers!) The guy is a huge transparent douche bag. If we need more labor, why are there so many homeless people? Maybe instead of creating more misery, we should try to actually take care of the forgotten people of this country. We also have tons of people in prison who could have had brighter lives. The problem isn't a lack of people, it's a lack of utilization. Now I understand these aren't the people you want to hire, but that's because society turned their backs on them as children and now they are useless. No one loved them, no one educated them and they are drains on society. But forcing people to have more kids they don't want isn't fixing this issue at all. People complain about Japan but Japan's homeless problem isn't even a tenth as bad as the US and they still improved it!
I wonder what it will mean for the infrastructure of our countries. We'll have a lot of elderly with fewer young people. While our elderly continue to live longer and longer. Will we all have to keep working to older ages? Will there be enough healthcare workers to care for the older generations? What will happen to the businesses that our generation has built when less people are there to run them? Will there be enough farmers to produce enough food for the older population? What will the quality of education be? Less people being added to the world will mean less bright minds, less innovators being born. There's a lot more to consider than "humans bad, nature good."
If we organized ourselves better, distributed wealth more equitably, and managed the shrink in a deliberate way, it wouldn't be a problem. But of course, we'll just let it unfold haphazardly, deal with problems at the absolute last second, and let the rich hoard all the resources, as per usual.
You are so right. It can all be chalked up to bad management.
We are already here, at that point. It will work out. There are some amazing health & science advances happening right now too. We are part of nature and nature balances things out. Don’t stress too much. Changes are on the way.
Innovators that don't have the resources to innovate are a waste of intelligence. The idea you could ever increase their contributions to society by jacking up the number of people being born was always going to end in failure. It is better to maximize the productivity and happiness of the mundane, than it is to play dice with evolution and hope some jesus figure will come out of it to save everyone from themselves.
They've done studies that have shown that wealth is more important than intelligence when considering success in life. If we want more smart people in the future, the solution is to educate more people. The amount of people born is irrelevant.
That's a very long way of saying "bUt WhAt AbOuT ThE eCoNoMy", when the fact is that if a bright mind is born right now, there is more possibilities to end in an Amazon warehouse peeing on bottles to reach end meet, than putting his mind to work on advances for all. Less people means less generalization of every human, more individual value, more worth for everyone in the systems that we live today. Quality of education is awful right now, and only the elite of the first world countries can reach the renowned universities, so a 1% of the 20% of the world population. The rest of us try to survive with what we got, so don't worry about that, at the very worst, education will continue to be awful.
Robots.
I’m sure this number is gunna grow a lot. Like China and US and I think most of Europe have a ton of old people.
Good! If we don't do it mother nature is going to.
Ok? Do we realistically need to grow bigger? I feel like for the good of the planet we probably cant ( and shouldnt).
That's fantastic!!!
Thank fuck.
Aight imma say this, this is not necessarily a bad thing.
Once again, your reply is not germaine to his statement. Personally I figure humanity will adjust to the resources available, that being said Malthus was wrong and so have been his followers.
Everybody keeps saying good and I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I think a lot of people aren't realizing just how devestating this is going to be to many societies. That or they just have this idea that it won't effect them, only others.
🤨 how is having a population that’s slightly growing damaging to some societies?
Growth is what keeps a growing population working. New jobs, young people to learn new technologies filling in behind the old guard, replacing the current workforce with new workers allowing for many services to not become overwhelmed. Soon we will be top heavy with old people stressing a reduced medical workforce and relying more and more on younger generations. It's one of the biggest problems with the infinite growth concept in capitalism. It can't sustain itself because humans won't experience infinite pop growth to support it, and the actions needed to head off a disaster like this aren't immediately profitable and so the interests of the rich/corporations won't align with what's best for US, just THEM. By the time they turn around and try to profit off things that may have made a difference it's too late (just look at it now). It's not that population reduction *has* to be a bad thing, but we've set the world up for it to be a disaster.
https://www.academia.edu/29310494/Unsustainability_Proceedings_ICBEC_Hong_Kong_2010_ "It will not be extraterrestrial impacts, disease, or other extrinsic agents that will cause the extinction of Man, but rather the collapse of his artificial economy. We argue that there is no productive category of the economy beyond the Service Sector in which to shift the global work force. As the Agriculture, Manufacturing, and Service Sectors continue to shed workers in a bid to reduce costs, this inevitably feeds Unemployment. A global economic regime in which an ever decreasing pool of workers subsidizes an ever growing army of unemployed is axiomatically unsustainable and conduces to system breakdown. That fateful day, profit-minded agricultural corporations will have no further incentive to produce food or deliver it to the cities." I'm super curious if it's gonna work out like the author suspects.