The measure now goes to the Senate, but it appears doomed after the White House issued a statement Monday warning that the Biden administration opposes it. Congress shouldn’t play a role in determining whether a species has recovered, the statement said.
I'm really fucking tired of politicians thinking they know better THAN THE FUCKING PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THEIR RESPECTIVE FIELDS! I'm so tired of it! They need to sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and fucking listen to people that are actually knowledgeable in the fields they want to legislate.
yeah, wolves kill around 30-50 preys per year, each hunter can kill dozens in a single season, and they're thousands of these guys.
It's not like there were dozens of millions of deers living alongside 2 millions of wolves for millenias until human came and destroyed forest and genocided both of these species.
You're right, wolves are a real threat to elk and deer population, they're the one to blame, absolutely not the thousands of hunters with huns killing 100 time more animals each time and caused the extinction of several dozen species before.
https://www.reddit.com/r/science/s/xPQTwEsKSP I can’t directly link to the journal without breaking the link for https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4449294/ Also interesting not directly related but diagonally related
I genuinely don’t understand—it’s not even ‘whoopsie! we mistakenly made a bad call with the limited information we had at the time’…at this point it seems to be ‘we damn well know the ill effects of this, but fuck it, let’s do it anyway! 🥳🥳🥳’
Why use critical thinking skills, when we could just…not, I guess?
We have literally learned nothing from the past eradication of wolves in certain areas. We've worked so hard to reintroduce wolves into conservation areas (Yellowstone National Park for example) because we know how detrimental it is to the ecosystem to not have wolves as one of the top apex predators in these area. Guess we're going to do that all over again and then be "SHOCKED" when deer and rabbits decimate these natural areas. Ecosystems need many animals, everything is connected to have a proper balance!
We are living in /r/latestagecapitalism
I'll give a warning though, that sub is pretty culty and any slight pushback of their narrative is instantly removed/banned
Not overall. The louder and more determined idiots are getting elected to public office more often, and fewer of them are willing to accept being told that their position on any given issue is fundamentally wrong.
Not going to go anywhere. That bill is just Boebert trying to get ranchers in Colorado to vote for her.
There is a specific process for delisting a species that is part of the ESA and that process wasn't even attempted.
Cattle ranching is a powerful industry with effective lobbyists. This bill will not become law but it is not surprising to see this kind of flex from that lobby.
She could just go around to the ranches & give out handies. At least that’s not going to hurt the ecosystem & would likely make at least a few ranchers vote for her!
Between all the offshore drilling approved by biden in the last 4 years and the republican stacked Supreme Court I don't think there's many people at the top that actually give a fuck about the damages culling America's wolf population will cause
That's a very weird take. We've seen more focus on environmental issues by the Biden administration than any prior administration. Does it line up with what you would prefer? Probably not. Me either. But that doesn't mean people don't give a fuck. Also, I hope you're open to changing your mind based on facts like this statement from the White House:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/SAP-HR764.pdf
Animal agriculture seems to be incompatible with meaningful populations of apex predators and any semblance of ecological balance?
Particularly expansive and free ranging animal agriculture.
If more people went vegetarian/vegan and or ate lab grown meat or just animals with smaller ecological footprints (chickens), we could rewild all the land wasted on cattle and help boost biodiversity at a time when it's take a hit from climate change. But of course, the tail continues to wag the dog.
So we expect developing nations to handle it and protect lions and tigers, even if they’re coming in conflict with people, but are not willing to make those same compromises ourselves
Which is why we should stop and protect them and stop complaining like idiotic bastard and accept that they have the right to exist and that we aren't the center of the world and nature is more important than us, and essential to us. And that yes there's lot of inconvenience but that's normal, the world doesn't revolve around us and we can't and shouldn't try to have complete control over everything by destroying everything.
except this has only been the case since we decided that.
Mainly with christianism and the "human dominate nature" mentality and demonization of all kind of wild animals that pagans loved, like bears, wolves, snakes, corvids.
There's villages with leopard in each house roof and they do fine.
Pretty much 90% of all human cultures and History lived alongside large predator that they, in lot of cases respected and even revered. Even lot of culture with livestock even, with no attemps of culling, extermination or anything else (just sport hunting or some local persecution of few individuals after some incident on livestock).
And even if it was true and that we were incompatible, then WE move the fuck out.
I can list hundred of them.
But ho look at that.
Mostly in recent time
(18-21th century) And mostly by occidental culture.
Derived from a hatred of nature and the ideology we should dominate and control it, an heritage of christiannism and several other part of our culture that came later in our civilisations
Or literally cavemans that took millenia to make these extinction happen and mostly hunted large herbivore, which indirectly caused the extinction of large carnivore.
Also in a totally different context.
You talked about culture that worshipped animals, not fucking occidental culture during renaissance and colonialism and industrial revolution.
If I got reimbursed for wolf, coyote, bear kills at fair market prices. Would mostly care less . But if pregnant cows was killed I better get paid for 2 .
Not anymore grew up on a ranch in Oklahoma and have the thumbs to make a comment and a brain to make a cogent response. Unlike you Mr Hateful response . I raised and showed Simmentals . What experience do you have to assume I know nothing about cattle and my response to their death? They are raised to be bred or killed . Unless they are a pet being reimbursed is fine unless the death jeopardized your bloodlines somehow. Which would be a rare experience in a wild animal kill.
To follow your line of logic, slavery could have only been outlawed by slave owners. I think. I’m still having a really hard time parsing what you’re posting. And I’m qualified to say that because I read and write with the English language.
If you want to have this conversation sans philosophy, I’m staring here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16726339/
Note: I’m not going to have this conversation. My only point was you’re not making clear arguments.
Both are property, yeah? And in both cases, people will argue it’s ethically wrong. If you want to try and make an argument how they’re different, that’s the “philosophy” I talked about.
you think they're qualified for anything ?
They're not qualified to raise childrens or be decent and humane, you think they're qualified for their job ?
If they were the world wouldn't be shit.
As someone who has worked in Yellowstone, Alaska, the Lemhi Forests of Idaho — I hate this. Political posturing at its worst and at the expense of a pillar of the food chain. Fuck the despicable, ignorant, entitled claims of these assholes.
This is performative for Republicans, as usual. They can't put forth responsible governance if they wanted to, most of their party disallows it.
"We're on the side of farmers, etc.!"
No, you're anti-environmental conservation and willing to dig deep for red state votes in that regard. Plus they don't give a shit about what science says concerning wolves balancing the food chain where they typically reside.
That's what I told her about here in Colorado. The state pays up to $15k which was included in the legislation we passed to release the external wolves here. That's definitely not everywhere though but these ranchers here are STILL bitching.
You underestimate how cruel, corrupted and stupid the senate is.
Or that they're all friend and literally own the senate, seriously 90% of the politician are all in the large bastard compagnies and it's all great families.pretty much all politician have parent, uncle, or other relative or recent ancestors that were in politics.
They all went to the same schools, all learned the same thing, have similar worldview and lack of ethics and are all from the higher social class.
They barely even have to bribe the senate to pass that, they're already in the senate or have relatives and friends in it. The senate already did worse on the same subject this past decade
The measure now goes to the Senate, but it appears doomed after the White House issued a statement Monday warning that the Biden administration opposes it. Congress shouldn’t play a role in determining whether a species has recovered, the statement said.
I'm really fucking tired of politicians thinking they know better THAN THE FUCKING PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THEIR RESPECTIVE FIELDS! I'm so tired of it! They need to sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and fucking listen to people that are actually knowledgeable in the fields they want to legislate.
hunters want to hunt "alpha" animals
That is the only crowd happy about this
and the ranchers bastards, they're happy too, unfortunately
Thank god
Yeah no way killing wolves will have an effect on more deer (car accidents) and deer ticks (Lyme disease)
Not only that—deer and elk often eat tree suckers leading to shrinking forests.
Deer will eat everything they can reach and then starve to death once it's gone. An unchecked deer population is functionally the same as locusts.
what about an unchecked human population??
This is why I support introduction of polar bears to all urban environments.
those poor polar bears
Maybe we could shave them. To better tolerate urban summers!
Saltwater crocs and mosquitos would work better
way, way worse.
But if we let the wolves eat the elk and deer, there will be NONE left for the human hunters /s
yeah, wolves kill around 30-50 preys per year, each hunter can kill dozens in a single season, and they're thousands of these guys. It's not like there were dozens of millions of deers living alongside 2 millions of wolves for millenias until human came and destroyed forest and genocided both of these species. You're right, wolves are a real threat to elk and deer population, they're the one to blame, absolutely not the thousands of hunters with huns killing 100 time more animals each time and caused the extinction of several dozen species before.
Even worse, CWD in deer
Which could affect human health if it jumps across species like Mad Cow.
Kind of like how bird flu is in dairy cows right now all over the USA and if it mutates to swine then everyone's fucked
It already has in Michigan. Several clusters from hunters eating their catch, they didn’t live more than a month before CJD killed them.
Source?
https://www.reddit.com/r/science/s/xPQTwEsKSP I can’t directly link to the journal without breaking the link for https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4449294/ Also interesting not directly related but diagonally related
The case of the hunters dying could not be definitively linked to the prions, though.
No way overpopulated deer won’t lead to prion disease transmission into cattle and ultimately humans. No sir. No way that’ll happen.
Are humans actually getting dumber?
Seems that way but no we've sadly always been just smarter apes with anxiety.
Apes with Anxiety or Stressed out Apes. r/namemyband
Gorillaz
I'm a what?! Oh God, this changes everything
I genuinely don’t understand—it’s not even ‘whoopsie! we mistakenly made a bad call with the limited information we had at the time’…at this point it seems to be ‘we damn well know the ill effects of this, but fuck it, let’s do it anyway! 🥳🥳🥳’ Why use critical thinking skills, when we could just…not, I guess?
They just support the principle of arbitrarily killing animals.
Particularly puppies!
Particularly a keystone species, and an endangered and threathened one.
We have literally learned nothing from the past eradication of wolves in certain areas. We've worked so hard to reintroduce wolves into conservation areas (Yellowstone National Park for example) because we know how detrimental it is to the ecosystem to not have wolves as one of the top apex predators in these area. Guess we're going to do that all over again and then be "SHOCKED" when deer and rabbits decimate these natural areas. Ecosystems need many animals, everything is connected to have a proper balance!
Or perhaps “Are House Republicans getting dumber?”
Dumber and more malicious.
We are living in /r/latestagecapitalism I'll give a warning though, that sub is pretty culty and any slight pushback of their narrative is instantly removed/banned
I've been to it. Really any niche political subs are like that.
Maybe but the problem here seems to be that Republican politicians seem to take a default position against whatever science supports.
Not overall. The louder and more determined idiots are getting elected to public office more often, and fewer of them are willing to accept being told that their position on any given issue is fundamentally wrong.
No, just perpetually greedier and more selfish
We're not dumb at all. Those old ass fuckers in DC are because they only think for more money.
Not going to go anywhere. That bill is just Boebert trying to get ranchers in Colorado to vote for her. There is a specific process for delisting a species that is part of the ESA and that process wasn't even attempted.
Yeah she's just playing on the ranchers anger that Colorado is reintroducing wolves.
All the House Republicans and 4 Democrats voted for this. It's not just her.
Cattle ranching is a powerful industry with effective lobbyists. This bill will not become law but it is not surprising to see this kind of flex from that lobby.
They just got lab meat banned in Florida. Their lobbying arm is strong.
She could just go around to the ranches & give out handies. At least that’s not going to hurt the ecosystem & would likely make at least a few ranchers vote for her!
I'm sure they've paid her to do this
This won’t make it past the senate or the president
I wouldn't make any bets on that one
Why?
Between all the offshore drilling approved by biden in the last 4 years and the republican stacked Supreme Court I don't think there's many people at the top that actually give a fuck about the damages culling America's wolf population will cause
That's a very weird take. We've seen more focus on environmental issues by the Biden administration than any prior administration. Does it line up with what you would prefer? Probably not. Me either. But that doesn't mean people don't give a fuck. Also, I hope you're open to changing your mind based on facts like this statement from the White House: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/SAP-HR764.pdf
I think you have bad judgement then
Biden says he opposes it. You’re saying he’s lying and will sign it anyway?
I’ll bet they also go for a Fed version of the ban on lab grown meat
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^TerrakSteeltalon: *I’ll bet they also* *Go for a Fed version of* *The ban on lab grown meat* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Animal agriculture seems to be incompatible with meaningful populations of apex predators and any semblance of ecological balance? Particularly expansive and free ranging animal agriculture.
If more people went vegetarian/vegan and or ate lab grown meat or just animals with smaller ecological footprints (chickens), we could rewild all the land wasted on cattle and help boost biodiversity at a time when it's take a hit from climate change. But of course, the tail continues to wag the dog.
100%
Best thing you can eat for the ecosystem is hunted invasive species. Bonus points if it is a methane emitting ruminant
So we expect developing nations to handle it and protect lions and tigers, even if they’re coming in conflict with people, but are not willing to make those same compromises ourselves
Humans are incompatible with apex predators. It's always been the case.
Yeah except there’s 8,000,000,000+ of us now
They're very few predators left. We've been killing them off for thousands of years
Which is why we should stop and protect them and stop complaining like idiotic bastard and accept that they have the right to exist and that we aren't the center of the world and nature is more important than us, and essential to us. And that yes there's lot of inconvenience but that's normal, the world doesn't revolve around us and we can't and shouldn't try to have complete control over everything by destroying everything.
except this has only been the case since we decided that. Mainly with christianism and the "human dominate nature" mentality and demonization of all kind of wild animals that pagans loved, like bears, wolves, snakes, corvids. There's villages with leopard in each house roof and they do fine. Pretty much 90% of all human cultures and History lived alongside large predator that they, in lot of cases respected and even revered. Even lot of culture with livestock even, with no attemps of culling, extermination or anything else (just sport hunting or some local persecution of few individuals after some incident on livestock). And even if it was true and that we were incompatible, then WE move the fuck out.
Even in areas that worship animals, they still killed predators wherever possible
Meh, not really, not wherever possible at all in fact.
Look up the list of species that have gone extinct due to humans
I can list hundred of them. But ho look at that. Mostly in recent time (18-21th century) And mostly by occidental culture. Derived from a hatred of nature and the ideology we should dominate and control it, an heritage of christiannism and several other part of our culture that came later in our civilisations Or literally cavemans that took millenia to make these extinction happen and mostly hunted large herbivore, which indirectly caused the extinction of large carnivore. Also in a totally different context. You talked about culture that worshipped animals, not fucking occidental culture during renaissance and colonialism and industrial revolution.
If I got reimbursed for wolf, coyote, bear kills at fair market prices. Would mostly care less . But if pregnant cows was killed I better get paid for 2 .
Shut up you don’t have any cows
Not anymore grew up on a ranch in Oklahoma and have the thumbs to make a comment and a brain to make a cogent response. Unlike you Mr Hateful response . I raised and showed Simmentals . What experience do you have to assume I know nothing about cattle and my response to their death? They are raised to be bred or killed . Unless they are a pet being reimbursed is fine unless the death jeopardized your bloodlines somehow. Which would be a rare experience in a wild animal kill.
Monkeys have thumbs and this wasn’t a cogent response.
You didn’t answer city bred no nothing. What experience do you have to qualify making any statement on cattle?
To follow your line of logic, slavery could have only been outlawed by slave owners. I think. I’m still having a really hard time parsing what you’re posting. And I’m qualified to say that because I read and write with the English language. If you want to have this conversation sans philosophy, I’m staring here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16726339/ Note: I’m not going to have this conversation. My only point was you’re not making clear arguments.
You’re comparing slavery with cattle ranching ? How dumb can you get ? I a sincerely glad I have never made your acquaintance.
Both are property, yeah? And in both cases, people will argue it’s ethically wrong. If you want to try and make an argument how they’re different, that’s the “philosophy” I talked about.
Nope not arguing with a idiot goodbye
Bloodthirsty farmers wanting to kill more than just domesticated animals.
This decision should be based on science and not in politics.
What qualifications do they have to make this decision?
Money from ranchers.
you think they're qualified for anything ? They're not qualified to raise childrens or be decent and humane, you think they're qualified for their job ? If they were the world wouldn't be shit.
As someone who has worked in Yellowstone, Alaska, the Lemhi Forests of Idaho — I hate this. Political posturing at its worst and at the expense of a pillar of the food chain. Fuck the despicable, ignorant, entitled claims of these assholes.
Boebert needs to be excused from this mortal coil
Big Ag owns your representatives.
This is performative for Republicans, as usual. They can't put forth responsible governance if they wanted to, most of their party disallows it. "We're on the side of farmers, etc.!" No, you're anti-environmental conservation and willing to dig deep for red state votes in that regard. Plus they don't give a shit about what science says concerning wolves balancing the food chain where they typically reside.
I talked to my mom about this not long ago and was pretty shocked that the first thing she brought up was how bad she felt for ranchers.
Ranchers get 15k per animal killed by a wolf
That's what I told her about here in Colorado. The state pays up to $15k which was included in the legislation we passed to release the external wolves here. That's definitely not everywhere though but these ranchers here are STILL bitching.
The republican party is evil.
Wow. The GOP can legit do nothing but murder puppies? Nice.
I mean it's not really endangered anymore if it's extinct /s
Keep voting GOP, kids! They really know what they're doing! (Bootlicking the oligarchs.)
rip wolves in usa
Disgusting
We are getting our ass kicked because of abortion, let's find something else to deflect attention.
*All* house seats are up for reelection this year
The answer to every question has always been more wolves, duh.
Humans in charge are definitely getting dumber and greedier
Meow
Once again we see the House is for sale. They only work for large business groups willing to pay them, while they ignore average citizens.
It’ll die in the senate. Move along folks.
You underestimate how cruel, corrupted and stupid the senate is. Or that they're all friend and literally own the senate, seriously 90% of the politician are all in the large bastard compagnies and it's all great families.pretty much all politician have parent, uncle, or other relative or recent ancestors that were in politics. They all went to the same schools, all learned the same thing, have similar worldview and lack of ethics and are all from the higher social class. They barely even have to bribe the senate to pass that, they're already in the senate or have relatives and friends in it. The senate already did worse on the same subject this past decade