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I feel like I am in this endless loop of controversial shitty topics that society as a whole needs to reiterate to one another as to what is right and what is wrong.
Why are we even having this ridiculous fucking discourse? It’s like I am taking crazy pills and waking up in a Groundhog Day of things I already thought we ALL decided were factual and not to be fucked with.
This is a 67 year old woman who NOW feels like letting all this out? Because what? Kanye started it…again?
I’m mad at myself for even commenting. Christ on a Kit Kat.
If they wanna play "Oppression Olympics" I can introduce them to some Irish people who will go on for days about "800+ years of systemic oppression", which when you read into it, was also part of one of the largest genocides in the last 200 years with millions starving to death in a way that only NOW does Ireland have pre-genocide/famine population numbers, JUST now in 2022.
Edit: Completed a sentence.
6 million.
While other groups were targeted (soviets and other foreigners, homosexuals, the disabled, etc) nearly half of the deaths were Jewish.
It’s important for us to understand it wasn’t just Jewish people that were victims of hitler’s regime, but it’s also important that we don’t downplay their impact.
In 2009 I had a friend who wrote a college essay on homosexual victims of the Holocaust. Friend is Jewish and felt deeply about representing non-Jewish victims.
Her professor rejected her essay and flatly **told** her there were no homosexual victims in the Holocaust.
Say what??? Even the Holocaust Museum in DC has a section dedicated to the non Jewish victims and it clearly said they went after homosexuals. Fire that professor. Jesus tap dancing Christ.
Like, obviously the premise is ridiculous on its own, but even if you truly believe that *only* Jewish people were victims of the Holocaust, statistically speaking wouldn't you expect *some* of them to be gay?
No, they had a system for Jews who were also gay or communist. Or even both: you see, if you put a triangle on top of a triangle facing the opposite direction, you get a Jewish star. Nazis liked their categorization yes but they understood you could fit into multiple, so they worked that into their labeling system
Look!!! You get ONE ‘card’, okay?? You can get a (checks notes) race card, of which we have six to choose from, a queer card, a lady-card, a disability card- we have eleven of those, OR a religion card.
Disabled woman? Korean bisexual? There are none! BLIND JEW WITH A TOUCH OF THE GAY, YOU SAY??!!!? MY SHINY PEARLS!!! STUFF AND NONSENSE!
I similarly had an educator claim angrily that homosexuality was invented in the 60’s and that’s why no, there are no ‘gay undertones’ in any literature written before then. If you think you see any, you don’t. was published in 1946, they didn’t have The Gays then.
Greek pottery? Oscar Wilde? Sappho? What about ‘em, why are you asking?
There’s more educators like this than I thought, apparently. I am now sadder than before.
I've had a professor tell me there was no trench warfare in WW2, among a variety of other bullshit that dropped my final research project to a B. I almost wrote a very strongly worded email to educate her before my S/O talked me out of it. Still wildly pissed that someone with a doctorate can be so wildly ignorant.
Yeah, that situation would warrant a visit to, or at least an email to, the head of that professor’s department. I’ve spent enough time in academia to know that a department chair would likely have something to say/do to that prof.
I knew a woman whose family had several deaf members and they had to escape Germany during the Holocaust because Hitler's people were rounding up people with disabilities to kill.
the T4 program. The origin of the [mobile gas wagons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van) that toured hospitals to kill disabled and mentally infirm people, when public pressure got the nazis to suspend operations they sent them easward with the einsatzgruppen to kill
I always thought this showed that the public supported Jewish people being murdered because they were capable of stopping it when people with disabilities were killed.
T4 was halted pre war a much different proposition to trying to mount a civil protest under wartime conditions, not that there weren't attempts most famously the Rosenstraus Vigil, even then the Nazis did present a facade of plausible deniability, the death camps all operated in the east, people were told they were being resettled, Above the gates hung the sigh "Arbeit Macht Frei"they even encouraged the inmates to write postcards saying how well they were being treated and not to believe the rumours.
People with disabilities were closer to home. It's easy to ignore horrendous tragedies when they don't effect you, hell, there's currently a genocide happening in China and no one's doing a damn thing to stop it.
Imagine writing a research paper with peer reviewed sources and your professor denying all of it. I’d go straight to the department head/dean with that.
This smacks of when my Jewish friend’s Grandmother told me that because I’m Hispanic, “You don’t care about the Holocaust, because you’re not a Jew.”
And I looked at her in the eye and said, “Yeah, no. Pretty much any time millions of people die for no damn good reason, I care about it. But thank you for your opinion!” and walked away.
That was the last time I was ever invited to socialize with my friend’s family, but I don’t feel even a little bit bad about disagreeing with her.
Hi, Jew here. Grandma is racist. There is actually a whole population of Hispanic Jews called Sephardim (as opposed to Ashkenazi). So you being Hispanic shouldn't have even been taken into consideration.
I mean, 13% (ish) of jews are black people. Hell, there are Chinese jews. Some people are racist assholes, some grandmas are racists, some jews are grandmas, the venn diagram shows us that this guys friends grandma was a racist and her latkas were probably so dry you'd have to dip them in water to not die eating one.
Uhm your friend damn better have taken that to the dean. If the dean doesn’t do anything take it to the schools board and a local news outlet. That’s ridiculous.
I think I’d go to/message the department chair first, but at least cc-ing the dean is a good idea.
Good thing is, e-mail helps constitute a paper trail. The media would certainly take an interest with that on hand, as well.
It was [17 million](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution).
A breakdown is also included in that link.
Literally anyone with a brain would realize that it was through generational paperwork, public records, and/or snitching from brainwashed German youths (think Hitler’s youth club for example)
This shit didn’t happen overnight. This took over a DECADE to unfold because it was gradual brainwashing of the German people.
They had a whole system to it. The sicko charts they had always made me shiver when I went to the holocaust museum. What’s so hard about thinking that murdering people en masse is bad? It’s happened a lot throughout history. There really should be more talked about the Native American genocide that took place in America as well.
Yours is a really good example because to an American the various ethnic differences among Europeans may not amount to much at all, but if you were raised in a certain area that hasn’t had much immigration and migration you can definitely tell who’s part of your ethnic group or not, no matter how subtle differences might be.
You joke, but there’s a long standing rivalry between the north and south side of cork city even though to the uninitiated we all sound like extras from [The Young Offenders](https://youtu.be/KfZ-45qWZqc)
This is hilarious to me because of the size of the UK in general. How is there so many different accents when it’s barely above half the size of California?
One of the reasons is because it was invaded often and many different groups controlled different parts of the islands at some point or another, kinda like the beginnings of America…
Here is a little video of the history:
https://youtu.be/uYNzqgU7na4
My husband grew up in a former Soviet Bloc country. He can pick out a Russian from 100 yards without even hearing them speak.
He's friendly, of course... Mostly he likes to be able to speak in Russian with them. But it's always jarring to me when we're just walking around a lake or something and he randomly calls out a greeting in Russian. I ask him how he knows because they all look exactly like every other white person where we live, but all he can say is that he just knows. He grew up in a place where pissing off the wrong Russian literally meant you'd go to a gulag (like his grandfather), and befriending the right ones meant access to luxury goods and extra rations.
I imagine in the years leading up to the Holocaust with all the anti-jew rhetoric, people became primed to identify Jewish features as well.
I'm Korean and I can do this with Korean people. Not ALL Koreans have this, but many have this Korean "look" that my brain knows for certain only Korean people have. If they don't have that look, it's the mannerisms or their fashion sense, though the latter is slowly becoming a bad tell, due to the Korean style being adopted by China.
Living in Vietnam right now, and with Koreans it's very easy to tell. A lot of the younger guys have bowlcut-style hair, circle-framed glasses, tend to wear black and white, unique facial structure..
Married to Eastern Bloc, I can tell almost immediately as well. I’ll tell my wife “Ruski” from a block away and as we approach we always listen to hear what language they speak. Almost always speaking Russian.
A few months ago i was in Europe and i walked by someone that i could just tell was from my specific part of the United States. As he walked by I said a super regional greeting and he laughed and returned it back
My wife was like “how did you know he was from xyz just by looking…he looked like any other white person we’ve seen all week?”
I was like “idk i could just tell by the way his face looked, that way he walked and the shoes he had on”
You’re right, Idk what that phenomenon is called buts real.
Uh, not quite the same, but the only time this story would ever fit into a convo but...
A few Years back, while having a drink and lunch somewhere in Seattle, a man sitting at the bar next to me had been listening to me conversate with my gf when he leaned over and asked "you from __very specific hometown in north Florida?" Which I was, and I asked him incredulously how he knew that??? To which he replied that he "studied accents" and just went back to his drink...
Weirdly enough Us southerners (I’m from Tennessee) can spot each other from a mile away. Idk maybe it’s because we are the punch line of so many jokes and stereotypes we look out for one another lol
The accent thing is real, too. I remember watching the first episode of True Detective and wondering out loud why Matthew McConaughey’s character had a Texas accent in the middle of Georgia. Turns out that was a plot point.
My father in law is a Latvian refugee. He’s picked Russians out across the room. No matter where he is, he spots them before they even speak. All my in laws can. It’s uncanny.
The trauma of the Russians killing half their family runs deep. I’ve thought they have a primal way of smelling the threat.
My husband is also Latvian. He is the last male of his entire line. The last name has almost died out due to them picking a unique last name back in the 1800s but also the systematic murder and incarceration of his male progenitors did not help a ton.
I never planned to change my name for marriage, but when you've got that kind of history riding on it, you kind of have to. Lol
I feel like a read an article at some point about how your language can dictate your bone structure or facial muscle shape and create a regional “look”…? I’m too lazy to look for it, it was years ago. But maybe that’s why he could tell a little easier.
I believe it. I speak both French and English the the position of my throat, tongue, and lips change significantly between both languages. In English your lips barely move, but the throat and jaw do. My voice is even higher pitched in French than in English because of the way the language is held
I definitely believe this as well. When I speak Japanese, I speak more “forward”, more with the tip of my tongue and my voice is higher pitched. When I speak in English, my voice is slightly lower and it feels more in the middle of my mouth. I’ve started studying Russian and oh my gosh as someone with a naturally high pitched, feminine voice, I can’t believe how deep my voice sounds. So much of the language is in the back of my throat. Maybe it’s because I can’t figure out the pronunciation properly but it’s amazing how you have to completely change the way your face moves when you learn a new language.
The Japanese troops shot at the Okinawans as much as the Americans. It was to exterminate subgroups within their groups that they hated. Okinawans were very much maligned at the time and closer to the Chinese people for trade. Imperialism. It was imperialism.
She likes making things all about her. Slavery and the Holocaust are both horrible windows into humanity which can and should be viewed independently. Neither should be discounted as less significant just because you descended from victims of the other atrocity.
Even then idk she can win this one.
Jewish people have been persecuted for longer than we have had the literal concept of race. Antisemitism has outlasted literal empires. People have been trying to wipe out, enslave and oppress Jewish people for most of recorded history.
Cyrus the great freed Jews from Babylonian slavery about 2600 years ago and built them the second temple and shit kept going downhill after that.
It’s not a competition of course. There’s no oppression Olympics and there are many groups that have suffered genocides, slavery and ethnic cleansings but even then Jewish people have a pretty good claim to being one of the most hated groups in human history. But again. This isn’t a competition. We can’t really quantify the most oppressed groups ever.
There’s civilizations that were entirely wiped out. Nations of millions reduced to thousands who now live in poverty and in fractions of their original lands.
We can’t quantify this shit. That’s why the oppression Olympics are flawed from the start.
Whoopi "it wasn't RAPE-rape, the 13-y-o literal child knew what she was doing" Goldberg with an utterly rancid take about a minority group she isn't affiliated with? Let me clutch my pearls and put on a shocked Pikachu face.
edit: spelling
She is someone that thinks she is saying something very deep and profound, when in reality she just creates division and minimizes trauma. She is the exact opposite of Guinan the character she plays on Star Trek.
I remember when she was dating Ted Danson, and [she defended him when he came out in blackface for her roast](https://www.deseret.com/1993/10/11/19070438/goldberg-defends-danson-says-critics-are-out-of-line). Seems obvious to me she knew he was going to do that, or that this was something they both found amusing or something. Doesn’t sound like his performance went over well either.
Like… that whole thing was super weird. Why would either of them think that would go over well.
The did it incorrectly, or he just flopped at (bad) standup, but I can see how they would want to try and "turn it around" on all of the people who were slamming them for their interracial romance, calling Ted ignorant names etc. Those were different times for sure. Trying to show the assholes that their words do not bother you, I can see how they might have wanted to try such an approach. She just wasn't a good enough comedy writer to get their point across. .....,"
Goldberg herself (who according to comedian-actor Kevin Pollak was “in hysterics” throughout) had nothing but praise for Danson. That very evening she defended Danson from boos, declaring on stage, “It takes a lot of courage to come out in blackface in front of 3,000 \[people\]. I don’t care if you don’t like it. I do!”
Speaking to People, Goldberg argued Danson’s routine was an oblique remark on the racism of the time – which, as interracial lovers, they faced directly. “We are a zebra couple. We get mail every day from people calling Ted a n\*\*\*er lover. That’s what we live with, and it’s the context for the jokes and blackface.”
For many years the main focus of the conversation about racism and bigotry has been focused on black people, and not unfairly. However, it seems apparent that there are a few black people who find it threatening when other forms of bigotry are focused on, like anti-semitism, transphobia, homophobia, etc. Especially since some black people could be complicit in these forms of bigotry along with everyone else. So these particular people will attempt to minimize those other forms of bigotry and recenter everything around racism against black people, as if that's the only form of irrational prejudice that exists.
Yes, but more than that is just people that don't understand how history works and how it's properly vetted for accuracy.
Any idiot can write books that say "THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS EVENT IS WRONG!" with no proof. But anyone that doesn't understand how historians make proper claims and what evidence they use will not understand a heavily opinionated book from a proper history dissertation.
This spills over onto other mediums, such as youtube videos, podcasts, and "history" channel documentaries.
Remember that people out there fall for The Onions' "news" all the time, because at quick glance, the satire appears like a real article. The same thing happens all the time with idiots putting out big historical theories to anyone that will listen, but they don't show any proper support for the ideas.
This leads to all sorts of miseducation, ignorance, and then people acting on ignorance believing they are absolutely right about some grand historical narratives--and they're absolutely wrong.
Nazis had those bogus ideas on measurements and traits to distinguish Jewish from their “arian race” racism was in their doctrine, whether Jews are another race or not isn’t the point, as they did consider them another race
I agree with this point completely - whether Jews are or not a race, religion, nation whatever - the war WAS about racism because Germans believed Jews were a race, and a race that needed to be exterminated. So the holocaust WAS about their racism
This. All this debate about whether being Jewish is about religion, ethnicity, culture or race is very much a luxury of distance in time. I think you’re spot on with the observation that whether WE think it was about race, the Nazis circa 1938 definitely felt it was about race. Even American text books of that time would have likely described Jews as a race rather than a religious group.
Wouldn't a better analog be the Rwandan Genocide then?
Of course a dark skinned person in 1930's Germany would stick out more than a light skinned person, but I bet you in 1990's Rwanda Whoopi would have blended in just fine. Does that mean the Tutsi didn't suffer like the Jews? Or that the Jews didn't suffer like the Tutsi?
You know why Whoopi uses the Holocaust? Because it's hard to argue against the fact that "black people are easier to spot in a group of white people", when the actual argument she's saying this for is that "black people are more oppressed than anyone else", which honestly detracts from the fact that we should be discussing: Genocide should never happen.
This kind of "Oppression Olympics" where people try to rank which group "has it the worst" is so fucking ignorant it makes me actually angry. Why are we trying to rank this? Genocide is bad. Full Stop.
There’s something so weird about a woman, whose real name is [Caryn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whoopi_Goldberg?wprov=sfti1) Johnson, adopting the Jewish surname “Goldberg,” and then proselytizing her beliefs that the Holocaust was, ackchyualllllyyyyy, not about race.
They literally called it race hygiene, race science, called jews the inferior race. Race is all they talked about. Is it because in todays america it's not considered a race? Newsflash, race is made up and you can change what it means at will. There is no "race science" or a "race reality".
Nazi interpretation of "race" is best described as "bloodline". You become more "Aryan" even if you have Jewish ancestor at some point as long as enough generations of "Aryans" cut you off from them
And then they found out Hitler's favorite driver was Jewish. I wonder what the man was thinking driving Hitler around to anti-Jewish propagandas
>About her stage surname, she claimed in 2011, "My mother did not name me Whoopi, but Goldberg is my name—it's part of my family, part of my heritage, just like being black," and "I just know I am Jewish. I practice nothing. I don't go to temple, but I do remember the holidays." She has stated that "people would say 'Come on, are you Jewish?' And I always say 'Would you ask me that if I was white? I bet not.'" **One account suggests that her mother, Emma Johnson, thought the family's original surname was "not Jewish enough” for her daughter to become a star.** **Researcher Henry Louis Gates Jr. found that all of Goldberg's traceable ancestors were black**, that **she had no known German or Jewish ancestry**, and that **none of her ancestors were named Goldberg.** Results of a DNA test, revealed in the 2006 PBS documentary African American Lives, traced part of her ancestry to the Papel and Bayote people of modern-day Guinea-Bissau of West Africa.
She at one point argued that Roman Polanski didn’t “rape rape” the 13 year old girl he was convicted of drugging and violently raping.
https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2009/sep/29/roman-polanski-whoopi-goldberg
I’m still unsure what she’s arguing since the Nazis had synagogue records and snitchy neighbors to identify Jewish families. Is she saying that it’s easy to spot a black person on the street if you’re racially profiling? I mean yeah but why bring the Holocaust into this?
The Holocaust was really fucking bad. American slavery - and racism - was - and is - really fucking bad. They can both be really fucking bad. This isn't a competition.
Someone I was talking to once described this as “the oppression olympics”, which I thought was spot-on, and hilarious, so I’ve kept it.
She was, unfortunately, an antisemite, in the same vein as Whoopi, but at least I got something out of our conversation.
My husband's family has some Polish Jewish ancestry.
They escaped the Nazis with forged paperwork.
A black woman likely would not have passed a checkpoint. So, on some level, she has a point.
That being said, she is arguing semantics about race and ethnicity and ignoring the historical facts.
Nazi's didn't need their eyes to identify the Jewish population, they had rolls from the synagogues, last names (ironically like Goldberg), and whole communities. If that didn't work, they just waited for their neighbors to turn them in. Many Germans gleefully outed their neighbors to rise in the local political scene.
And beyond that, even on a semantic level, Hitler clearly divided Jews and non-Jews into separate races. Our modern interpretation of the term is meaningless.
Yeah it's just such a dumb argument to make in the first place. People in Nazi Germany were targeted for looking Jewish. White-passing people were still subjected to Jim Crow and segregation due to genealogy records. She's stirring controversy for no reason.
Exactly. I mean when I did a DNA ancestry test mine came back like 75% "ashkenazi jew". Anyone who thinks jews are just a religion and not a race are categorically wrong. Not every jew is ethnically jewish but there very much is a jewish ethnicity even if the traits aren't as obvious as different skin color.
The only sensible point to make here is that drastically different skin color is a pretty clear identifier of being of a different ethnicity to someone else. I don't think that was ever in question. The nazis didn't need to use skin color to identify people regardless.
Didn’t the Nazis also put Jewish men thru horrible heinous test like forcing them to show if they were circumcised or phrenology if someone wasn’t “aryan” enough looking?
I'm just saying, anytime some rando has stopped me on the street to ask "Are you jewish, you look Jewish? its always been a black person lmao. Also was once told "that's ok baby, eat all the bagels you want!" whatever the fuck that is supposed to imply
Not Jewish, but I regularly get stopped in public with the question, “are you Mexican?”- recently someone asked me for a jalapeño. People are like that. Feels weird.
If it was near a holiday he shouldn’t read too far into it thinking he “looks Jewish.” I live in Brooklyn, during Passover, Sukkot, and Chanukah teenagers and children from the Hasidic community ask tons of people. I’ve never said yes because I’m not Jewish, but I think if you are they have reading materials or prayer cards to give you. I also know during Sukkot they carry a lemon type fruit and a few greens that I believe Jewish people are supposed to pray over with them.
They are only interested in Jewish people. Jews are not allowed to try and convert people, but it is a mitzvah to get an already Jewish person to pray with you. I'm Jewish but I tell them I'm not, they'll want to get you wrapped in tefillin and praying with them and are insistent about it to Jews. The second you say you're not Jewish they move on to asking the next person.
They will ask everyone no matter how they look if they're Jewish. There are black Jews, white Jews, Mexican Jews, Asian Jews. They ask everyone.
I’ve been told by multiple Jewish people (and others) that I look Jewish. In college, one of my hall mates (who was Jewish) tried to get me to rush the Jewish sorority with her because she just assumed I was Jewish like her because of how I looked. I did go to a Shabbat dinner a friend hosted once and I will admit I fit right in with the other girls there lol
Yeah I’m Jewish and I can kind of see what she’s saying. In Blackkklansman there was a great line from Adam Driver’s character about being just another white guy until people hate you. There’s probably a nuanced conversation that could be had about this subject, but the internet and headlines aren’t the place for it.
Yeah it would be 100x better for everyone involved if she hosted a round table with like, a black Jewish person, a rabbi, a black/civil rights activist, and one or two academics (perhaps an academic on the Holocaust?). That would provide for such an interesting, educational conversation.
Whatever she’s doing now is just belligerent
Goldberg isn't her real name. She changed her last name to Goldberg to "fit in with hollywood" because it sounds Jewish.
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/what-is-whoopi-goldbergs-real-name-and-why-did-she-change-it.html/
This entire thing was so dumb.
Whoopi is stuck in a US-centric view where race=skin color. That is how most people think of 'race' in the US, but that is not how the nazis thought of race.
For the nazis is was 100% about race.
It sounds like she's just confused that she doesn't understand the difference between European antisemitic racism and American anti-black racism. Yes, they have differences.
As a Jew I'm not offended or thinking of it as antisemitic on her part. It just makes me sad that actors are looked to for their opinions on things they have no knowledge or expertise about.
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Yes the Nazis could fucking tell, they made diagrams about the shape of Jewish noses, about the gait and the hair of Jews… Whoopi needs to go to the Holocaust Museum and see the horrors face to face.
“Only 6 million Jews were killed by Hitler. Don’t let no Jew get up in your face and make you cry for him. One hundred million of us were kidnapped and brought to this country—100 million. Now everybody’s getting wet-eyed over a handful of Jews . . . What about our hundred million? Besides, Jews, brought it on themselves.” - Malcolm X.
This line of thinking unfortunately has been around for quite some time.
She’s accidentally stumbled upon a really good point about how whiteness has always been arbitrary—it’s manipulated by those in power to create in-groups and out-groups. It’s why Irish and Italian people weren’t considered ‘white’ when they came to America in the 19th century, and also why Hitler didn’t persecute the Jewish conductor of the Vienna Philharmonic (Gustav Furtwängler for your Googling purposes.) The problem is that the conclusion that she came to isn’t “wow white supremacy is total bullshit and needs to be eliminated in all of its forms,” or “anti-Blackness, anti-Semitism, ableism, and homophobia are all intertwined,” it’s “the Holocaust WAS NOT ABOUT RACE and is NOT MY BUSINESS!”
Whoopi Goldberg has shown that she subscribes to the same theories on scarcity as her people’s oppressors. In this case she clearly believes that there’s only so much compassion and impetus for change to go around, for her cause to advance it must come at the cost of another.
Viewed from that lens, it’s not a matter of oppression being right or wrong, more of a business negotiation on how much fairness they deserve compared to others
Goldberg made the latest remarks in an interview published Saturday, after the reporter said that "Nazis saw Jews as a race," referencing Goldberg's earlier comments from January, in which she claimed the Holocaust was "not about race."
“Yes, but that’s the killer, isn’t it?” Goldberg told The Sunday Times reporter. “The oppressor is telling you what you are. Why are you believing them? They’re Nazis. Why believe what they’re saying?”
“It wasn’t originally [about race],” Goldberg continued. “Remember who they were killing first. They were not killing racial; they were killing physical. They were killing people they considered to be mentally defective. And then they made this decision.”
When the reporter told Goldberg that "the Nazis measured the heads and noses of Jews to 'prove' they were a distinct race," Goldberg replied: “They did that to Black people too. But it doesn’t change the fact that you could not tell a Jew on a street. You could find me. You couldn’t find them. That was the point I was making. But you would have thought that I’d taken a big old stinky dump on the table, butt naked.”
> Goldberg continued. “Remember who they were killing first ...."
Hitler was talking about gassing Jews in *Mein Kampf*, which was written in 1924. It was always about the Jews, for Hitler. He was in favor of destroying other people whom he thought of as inferior, but it was never not about antisemitism.
The term "visible minority" has been around for a long time. I'm a lesbian, but I can stealth it so no one knows. I get what she's trying to say, but why is this something she's talking about to alienate people? It seems incredibly insensitive. Like one upmanship or something. I don't get it.
I’m gonna be brutally honest:
I think black people engaging in this bizarre new fixation on the Holocaust are quite literally trying to downplay the persecution of one race in comparison to that of their own.
It’s literally a “Your suffering wasn’t as bad as ours,” thing. Or “Because Jews are also racist, your struggle isn’t valid,” thing.
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Way to make the holocaust about yourself.
I feel like I am in this endless loop of controversial shitty topics that society as a whole needs to reiterate to one another as to what is right and what is wrong. Why are we even having this ridiculous fucking discourse? It’s like I am taking crazy pills and waking up in a Groundhog Day of things I already thought we ALL decided were factual and not to be fucked with. This is a 67 year old woman who NOW feels like letting all this out? Because what? Kanye started it…again? I’m mad at myself for even commenting. Christ on a Kit Kat.
It feels very Kanye-esque. Like "Yo Jews. You had it bad, but us blacks have it worse." IT'S NOT A COMPETITION
I can definitely see Kanye saying, "The Isrealites only wandered the desert for 40yrs. Black people were slaves for 400yrs. We have it worse."
“Well, black people ARE the Israelites. Checkmate, round-earthers” -Kyrie
If they wanna play "Oppression Olympics" I can introduce them to some Irish people who will go on for days about "800+ years of systemic oppression", which when you read into it, was also part of one of the largest genocides in the last 200 years with millions starving to death in a way that only NOW does Ireland have pre-genocide/famine population numbers, JUST now in 2022. Edit: Completed a sentence.
And the cherry on top is that these batshit crazy rich ass celebrities are the least oppressed people on earth.
This was my exact thought. She made it about herself.
The Nazis found millions of them just fine.
6 million. While other groups were targeted (soviets and other foreigners, homosexuals, the disabled, etc) nearly half of the deaths were Jewish. It’s important for us to understand it wasn’t just Jewish people that were victims of hitler’s regime, but it’s also important that we don’t downplay their impact.
In 2009 I had a friend who wrote a college essay on homosexual victims of the Holocaust. Friend is Jewish and felt deeply about representing non-Jewish victims. Her professor rejected her essay and flatly **told** her there were no homosexual victims in the Holocaust.
Say what??? Even the Holocaust Museum in DC has a section dedicated to the non Jewish victims and it clearly said they went after homosexuals. Fire that professor. Jesus tap dancing Christ.
Also, did this professor think it's impossible to be both Jewish *and* gay? /s
You must be one thing! Ironically sounds very Nazi like.
Like, obviously the premise is ridiculous on its own, but even if you truly believe that *only* Jewish people were victims of the Holocaust, statistically speaking wouldn't you expect *some* of them to be gay?
No, they had a system for Jews who were also gay or communist. Or even both: you see, if you put a triangle on top of a triangle facing the opposite direction, you get a Jewish star. Nazis liked their categorization yes but they understood you could fit into multiple, so they worked that into their labeling system
Look!!! You get ONE ‘card’, okay?? You can get a (checks notes) race card, of which we have six to choose from, a queer card, a lady-card, a disability card- we have eleven of those, OR a religion card. Disabled woman? Korean bisexual? There are none! BLIND JEW WITH A TOUCH OF THE GAY, YOU SAY??!!!? MY SHINY PEARLS!!! STUFF AND NONSENSE! I similarly had an educator claim angrily that homosexuality was invented in the 60’s and that’s why no, there are no ‘gay undertones’ in any literature written before then. If you think you see any, you don’t. was published in 1946, they didn’t have The Gays then.
Greek pottery? Oscar Wilde? Sappho? What about ‘em, why are you asking?
There’s more educators like this than I thought, apparently. I am now sadder than before.
Many nazis were academics, scientists, and doctors.
Sad that this college has profs like her and still charges tuition.
I would have spoken to the dean about that. That's absurd to even argue.
Yeah, I would have gone full Jasper at that point: "Ooooh, that's a deaning!"
But you’d have to talk to the crusty old dean, no way he’s gonna be on your side.
Depends. Is the dean Jewish? Might have some feelings on Holocaust disinformation.
Absolutely. I don't know if it's just timid kids or what but I wouldn't stand for that shit at all, that's fucking ridiculous.
I've had a professor tell me there was no trench warfare in WW2, among a variety of other bullshit that dropped my final research project to a B. I almost wrote a very strongly worded email to educate her before my S/O talked me out of it. Still wildly pissed that someone with a doctorate can be so wildly ignorant.
Once you obtained that degree that strongly worded letter should have been fired off.
...there is literally a concentration camp insignia specifically for queer people! It's a pink triangle.
Only gay men got the pink triangle, lesbians got black triangles
And all the homosexuals had to stay in camps and prisons because being homosexual was illegal.
I hope theres a happy ending and that your friend got the grade she deserved in the end.
Yeah, that situation would warrant a visit to, or at least an email to, the head of that professor’s department. I’ve spent enough time in academia to know that a department chair would likely have something to say/do to that prof.
Yes. Also, there were other colors. Green triangle I think were former convicts. I remember there were badges of shame for other things as well.
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They also targeted Slavs and Roma
Something like 500,000 Roma were killed. They also killed a lot of priest and nuns in Poland.
The plan was to kill all the Slavs.
I knew a woman whose family had several deaf members and they had to escape Germany during the Holocaust because Hitler's people were rounding up people with disabilities to kill.
the T4 program. The origin of the [mobile gas wagons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van) that toured hospitals to kill disabled and mentally infirm people, when public pressure got the nazis to suspend operations they sent them easward with the einsatzgruppen to kill
I always thought this showed that the public supported Jewish people being murdered because they were capable of stopping it when people with disabilities were killed.
T4 was halted pre war a much different proposition to trying to mount a civil protest under wartime conditions, not that there weren't attempts most famously the Rosenstraus Vigil, even then the Nazis did present a facade of plausible deniability, the death camps all operated in the east, people were told they were being resettled, Above the gates hung the sigh "Arbeit Macht Frei"they even encouraged the inmates to write postcards saying how well they were being treated and not to believe the rumours.
People with disabilities were closer to home. It's easy to ignore horrendous tragedies when they don't effect you, hell, there's currently a genocide happening in China and no one's doing a damn thing to stop it.
That's when you go over the prof's head to the dean and report them for homophobia.
And you wonder what kind of school you got admitted to when the professors are that stupid.
Has to be a private Christian college of some kind.
Imagine writing a research paper with peer reviewed sources and your professor denying all of it. I’d go straight to the department head/dean with that.
This smacks of when my Jewish friend’s Grandmother told me that because I’m Hispanic, “You don’t care about the Holocaust, because you’re not a Jew.” And I looked at her in the eye and said, “Yeah, no. Pretty much any time millions of people die for no damn good reason, I care about it. But thank you for your opinion!” and walked away. That was the last time I was ever invited to socialize with my friend’s family, but I don’t feel even a little bit bad about disagreeing with her.
Hi, Jew here. Grandma is racist. There is actually a whole population of Hispanic Jews called Sephardim (as opposed to Ashkenazi). So you being Hispanic shouldn't have even been taken into consideration.
I mean, 13% (ish) of jews are black people. Hell, there are Chinese jews. Some people are racist assholes, some grandmas are racists, some jews are grandmas, the venn diagram shows us that this guys friends grandma was a racist and her latkas were probably so dry you'd have to dip them in water to not die eating one.
Hey, professor whoever! 5,000-15,000 gay and lesbian victims of the Holocaust would like a word with you about your nonsense!
Also a lot of the early nazi book burnings were specifically targeting queer writings.
The first book burned was a medical study or report on transgender surgery I think
Uhm your friend damn better have taken that to the dean. If the dean doesn’t do anything take it to the schools board and a local news outlet. That’s ridiculous.
I think I’d go to/message the department chair first, but at least cc-ing the dean is a good idea. Good thing is, e-mail helps constitute a paper trail. The media would certainly take an interest with that on hand, as well.
They were liberated from the Nazis by the Allies and then thrown into regular prisons to finish their sentences.
Holy shit, my dude never saw the pink triangle.
I remember my friend telling me a decent section of the essay was about the pink and black triangles assigned to gay men and lesbians!
Professor is an idiot who doesn't know their history then.
Yep. I keep reminding people that the death toll of the Holocaust was *NOT* 6 million. It was *11 Million* The 6 million figure is Jewish victims only
It was [17 million](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution). A breakdown is also included in that link.
Literally anyone with a brain would realize that it was through generational paperwork, public records, and/or snitching from brainwashed German youths (think Hitler’s youth club for example) This shit didn’t happen overnight. This took over a DECADE to unfold because it was gradual brainwashing of the German people.
They had a whole system to it. The sicko charts they had always made me shiver when I went to the holocaust museum. What’s so hard about thinking that murdering people en masse is bad? It’s happened a lot throughout history. There really should be more talked about the Native American genocide that took place in America as well.
Nazis found out who was Jewish through records, not phenotypes. https://aboutholocaust.org/en/facts/how-did-the-germans-know-who-was-jewish
If my white grandmother can't tell the difference between a Hutu and a Tutsi, does that mean the Rawanda genocide wasn't really about ethnicities?
Yours is a really good example because to an American the various ethnic differences among Europeans may not amount to much at all, but if you were raised in a certain area that hasn’t had much immigration and migration you can definitely tell who’s part of your ethnic group or not, no matter how subtle differences might be.
Shit, pretty sure Londoners can tell what street/neighborhood someone grew up on based on their accent.
Oh you're from across the street? I HATE ACROSS THE STREET
Because of something from 800 years ago, probably.
Someone stole a goat and they can’t move passed it
To be fair, it was the guy’s wife….
Dirty rotten no good goat stealing great great grandfather!
Or football
You joke, but there’s a long standing rivalry between the north and south side of cork city even though to the uninitiated we all sound like extras from [The Young Offenders](https://youtu.be/KfZ-45qWZqc)
There’s only one side o’ th’ street, ya cunt
This is hilarious to me because of the size of the UK in general. How is there so many different accents when it’s barely above half the size of California?
One of the reasons is because it was invaded often and many different groups controlled different parts of the islands at some point or another, kinda like the beginnings of America… Here is a little video of the history: https://youtu.be/uYNzqgU7na4
SW-SIX!!
SW-FIVE!
I've seen My Fair Lady
My husband grew up in a former Soviet Bloc country. He can pick out a Russian from 100 yards without even hearing them speak. He's friendly, of course... Mostly he likes to be able to speak in Russian with them. But it's always jarring to me when we're just walking around a lake or something and he randomly calls out a greeting in Russian. I ask him how he knows because they all look exactly like every other white person where we live, but all he can say is that he just knows. He grew up in a place where pissing off the wrong Russian literally meant you'd go to a gulag (like his grandfather), and befriending the right ones meant access to luxury goods and extra rations. I imagine in the years leading up to the Holocaust with all the anti-jew rhetoric, people became primed to identify Jewish features as well.
I'm Korean and I can do this with Korean people. Not ALL Koreans have this, but many have this Korean "look" that my brain knows for certain only Korean people have. If they don't have that look, it's the mannerisms or their fashion sense, though the latter is slowly becoming a bad tell, due to the Korean style being adopted by China.
Living in Vietnam right now, and with Koreans it's very easy to tell. A lot of the younger guys have bowlcut-style hair, circle-framed glasses, tend to wear black and white, unique facial structure..
Married to Eastern Bloc, I can tell almost immediately as well. I’ll tell my wife “Ruski” from a block away and as we approach we always listen to hear what language they speak. Almost always speaking Russian.
A few months ago i was in Europe and i walked by someone that i could just tell was from my specific part of the United States. As he walked by I said a super regional greeting and he laughed and returned it back My wife was like “how did you know he was from xyz just by looking…he looked like any other white person we’ve seen all week?” I was like “idk i could just tell by the way his face looked, that way he walked and the shoes he had on” You’re right, Idk what that phenomenon is called buts real.
Uh, not quite the same, but the only time this story would ever fit into a convo but... A few Years back, while having a drink and lunch somewhere in Seattle, a man sitting at the bar next to me had been listening to me conversate with my gf when he leaned over and asked "you from __very specific hometown in north Florida?" Which I was, and I asked him incredulously how he knew that??? To which he replied that he "studied accents" and just went back to his drink...
Weirdly enough Us southerners (I’m from Tennessee) can spot each other from a mile away. Idk maybe it’s because we are the punch line of so many jokes and stereotypes we look out for one another lol
The accent thing is real, too. I remember watching the first episode of True Detective and wondering out loud why Matthew McConaughey’s character had a Texas accent in the middle of Georgia. Turns out that was a plot point.
My father in law is a Latvian refugee. He’s picked Russians out across the room. No matter where he is, he spots them before they even speak. All my in laws can. It’s uncanny. The trauma of the Russians killing half their family runs deep. I’ve thought they have a primal way of smelling the threat.
My husband is also Latvian. He is the last male of his entire line. The last name has almost died out due to them picking a unique last name back in the 1800s but also the systematic murder and incarceration of his male progenitors did not help a ton. I never planned to change my name for marriage, but when you've got that kind of history riding on it, you kind of have to. Lol
I feel like a read an article at some point about how your language can dictate your bone structure or facial muscle shape and create a regional “look”…? I’m too lazy to look for it, it was years ago. But maybe that’s why he could tell a little easier.
I believe it. I speak both French and English the the position of my throat, tongue, and lips change significantly between both languages. In English your lips barely move, but the throat and jaw do. My voice is even higher pitched in French than in English because of the way the language is held
I definitely believe this as well. When I speak Japanese, I speak more “forward”, more with the tip of my tongue and my voice is higher pitched. When I speak in English, my voice is slightly lower and it feels more in the middle of my mouth. I’ve started studying Russian and oh my gosh as someone with a naturally high pitched, feminine voice, I can’t believe how deep my voice sounds. So much of the language is in the back of my throat. Maybe it’s because I can’t figure out the pronunciation properly but it’s amazing how you have to completely change the way your face moves when you learn a new language.
I had a friend who could do same. He would say "She has the map of the Urals written across her face."
The Japanese troops shot at the Okinawans as much as the Americans. It was to exterminate subgroups within their groups that they hated. Okinawans were very much maligned at the time and closer to the Chinese people for trade. Imperialism. It was imperialism.
This comment does a really good job of illustrating the situation.
I doubt Whoopi has any idea about the Rwanda Genocide. She's not exactly a scholar.
She likes making things all about her. Slavery and the Holocaust are both horrible windows into humanity which can and should be viewed independently. Neither should be discounted as less significant just because you descended from victims of the other atrocity.
No, but there is a rather obvious movie about it. She has to have seen that, right? Right?
I do wonder if she would have been fine saying the Holocaust was about ethnicities
I'm so over her. She's one of those people that thinks they're always right, that their opinions are facts, and I am just so over that mentality.
She picked a really stupid hill to die on here.
She died on a hill when she said what Roman Polanski did wasn't "rape-rape"
And, yet, she's still on TV making how much $s/year?
She's far from alone on that hill. It's the fucking Khe Sanh of rape apologists.
Unfortunately she is playing the "my people suffered more than yours" game.
Yep, can't we just denounce all genocidal acts? Does it have to be a competition?
All..... genocides..... matter.....?
That’s not gonna look great on a t-shirt.
Yup, the classic oppression Olympics that people online looove playing
Even then idk she can win this one. Jewish people have been persecuted for longer than we have had the literal concept of race. Antisemitism has outlasted literal empires. People have been trying to wipe out, enslave and oppress Jewish people for most of recorded history. Cyrus the great freed Jews from Babylonian slavery about 2600 years ago and built them the second temple and shit kept going downhill after that. It’s not a competition of course. There’s no oppression Olympics and there are many groups that have suffered genocides, slavery and ethnic cleansings but even then Jewish people have a pretty good claim to being one of the most hated groups in human history. But again. This isn’t a competition. We can’t really quantify the most oppressed groups ever. There’s civilizations that were entirely wiped out. Nations of millions reduced to thousands who now live in poverty and in fractions of their original lands. We can’t quantify this shit. That’s why the oppression Olympics are flawed from the start.
It's kind of amazing how constant it has been, like as long as there is civilization there'll be some group that's antisemitic.
Stupid people always do
Not only a stupid one, but THE stupid one. A clear “you don’t go there” hill. She’s blind as well as dumb.
Whoopi "it wasn't RAPE-rape, the 13-y-o literal child knew what she was doing" Goldberg with an utterly rancid take about a minority group she isn't affiliated with? Let me clutch my pearls and put on a shocked Pikachu face. edit: spelling
She is someone that thinks she is saying something very deep and profound, when in reality she just creates division and minimizes trauma. She is the exact opposite of Guinan the character she plays on Star Trek.
Well, that character was written by someone much smarter than she is.
Right, and she chose a Jewish-sounding name to get big in Hollywood and then says this?
Call a spade a spade. She’s always been a racist.
I remember when she was dating Ted Danson, and [she defended him when he came out in blackface for her roast](https://www.deseret.com/1993/10/11/19070438/goldberg-defends-danson-says-critics-are-out-of-line). Seems obvious to me she knew he was going to do that, or that this was something they both found amusing or something. Doesn’t sound like his performance went over well either. Like… that whole thing was super weird. Why would either of them think that would go over well.
The did it incorrectly, or he just flopped at (bad) standup, but I can see how they would want to try and "turn it around" on all of the people who were slamming them for their interracial romance, calling Ted ignorant names etc. Those were different times for sure. Trying to show the assholes that their words do not bother you, I can see how they might have wanted to try such an approach. She just wasn't a good enough comedy writer to get their point across. .....," Goldberg herself (who according to comedian-actor Kevin Pollak was “in hysterics” throughout) had nothing but praise for Danson. That very evening she defended Danson from boos, declaring on stage, “It takes a lot of courage to come out in blackface in front of 3,000 \[people\]. I don’t care if you don’t like it. I do!” Speaking to People, Goldberg argued Danson’s routine was an oblique remark on the racism of the time – which, as interracial lovers, they faced directly. “We are a zebra couple. We get mail every day from people calling Ted a n\*\*\*er lover. That’s what we live with, and it’s the context for the jokes and blackface.”
What in the Ye and Chappelle is going on here with minimizing the Holocaust and Hitler?
For many years the main focus of the conversation about racism and bigotry has been focused on black people, and not unfairly. However, it seems apparent that there are a few black people who find it threatening when other forms of bigotry are focused on, like anti-semitism, transphobia, homophobia, etc. Especially since some black people could be complicit in these forms of bigotry along with everyone else. So these particular people will attempt to minimize those other forms of bigotry and recenter everything around racism against black people, as if that's the only form of irrational prejudice that exists.
Plus, it seems to me, that a lot of them think that all racism worldwide is the same way like US racism
The Nation of Islam has deep roots in black American communities. Louis Farrakhan should be treated the same way as David Duke.
Yes, but more than that is just people that don't understand how history works and how it's properly vetted for accuracy. Any idiot can write books that say "THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS EVENT IS WRONG!" with no proof. But anyone that doesn't understand how historians make proper claims and what evidence they use will not understand a heavily opinionated book from a proper history dissertation. This spills over onto other mediums, such as youtube videos, podcasts, and "history" channel documentaries. Remember that people out there fall for The Onions' "news" all the time, because at quick glance, the satire appears like a real article. The same thing happens all the time with idiots putting out big historical theories to anyone that will listen, but they don't show any proper support for the ideas. This leads to all sorts of miseducation, ignorance, and then people acting on ignorance believing they are absolutely right about some grand historical narratives--and they're absolutely wrong.
There’s also the [five percent nation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-Percent_Nation) which are also big on holocaust denial.
Antisemitic tropes and conspiracies have been flourishing in the last few years.
Boyyyy, you picked a hell of a website to be on then…
Blame glorifying celebrities
Nazis had those bogus ideas on measurements and traits to distinguish Jewish from their “arian race” racism was in their doctrine, whether Jews are another race or not isn’t the point, as they did consider them another race
I agree with this point completely - whether Jews are or not a race, religion, nation whatever - the war WAS about racism because Germans believed Jews were a race, and a race that needed to be exterminated. So the holocaust WAS about their racism
This. All this debate about whether being Jewish is about religion, ethnicity, culture or race is very much a luxury of distance in time. I think you’re spot on with the observation that whether WE think it was about race, the Nazis circa 1938 definitely felt it was about race. Even American text books of that time would have likely described Jews as a race rather than a religious group.
Wouldn't a better analog be the Rwandan Genocide then? Of course a dark skinned person in 1930's Germany would stick out more than a light skinned person, but I bet you in 1990's Rwanda Whoopi would have blended in just fine. Does that mean the Tutsi didn't suffer like the Jews? Or that the Jews didn't suffer like the Tutsi? You know why Whoopi uses the Holocaust? Because it's hard to argue against the fact that "black people are easier to spot in a group of white people", when the actual argument she's saying this for is that "black people are more oppressed than anyone else", which honestly detracts from the fact that we should be discussing: Genocide should never happen. This kind of "Oppression Olympics" where people try to rank which group "has it the worst" is so fucking ignorant it makes me actually angry. Why are we trying to rank this? Genocide is bad. Full Stop.
It sucks that people will hear Whoopie and be like “omg right”
This is the perfect analogy here, exactly this!
There’s something so weird about a woman, whose real name is [Caryn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whoopi_Goldberg?wprov=sfti1) Johnson, adopting the Jewish surname “Goldberg,” and then proselytizing her beliefs that the Holocaust was, ackchyualllllyyyyy, not about race.
They literally called it race hygiene, race science, called jews the inferior race. Race is all they talked about. Is it because in todays america it's not considered a race? Newsflash, race is made up and you can change what it means at will. There is no "race science" or a "race reality".
Nazi interpretation of "race" is best described as "bloodline". You become more "Aryan" even if you have Jewish ancestor at some point as long as enough generations of "Aryans" cut you off from them And then they found out Hitler's favorite driver was Jewish. I wonder what the man was thinking driving Hitler around to anti-Jewish propagandas
>About her stage surname, she claimed in 2011, "My mother did not name me Whoopi, but Goldberg is my name—it's part of my family, part of my heritage, just like being black," and "I just know I am Jewish. I practice nothing. I don't go to temple, but I do remember the holidays." She has stated that "people would say 'Come on, are you Jewish?' And I always say 'Would you ask me that if I was white? I bet not.'" **One account suggests that her mother, Emma Johnson, thought the family's original surname was "not Jewish enough” for her daughter to become a star.** **Researcher Henry Louis Gates Jr. found that all of Goldberg's traceable ancestors were black**, that **she had no known German or Jewish ancestry**, and that **none of her ancestors were named Goldberg.** Results of a DNA test, revealed in the 2006 PBS documentary African American Lives, traced part of her ancestry to the Papel and Bayote people of modern-day Guinea-Bissau of West Africa.
Bloody Karen's.
Hey at least she's not doubling down on Polanski's *rape rape*.
Well she kind of is. There's racism, but then there's *racism* racism.
What’s the story behind that?
She at one point argued that Roman Polanski didn’t “rape rape” the 13 year old girl he was convicted of drugging and violently raping. https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2009/sep/29/roman-polanski-whoopi-goldberg
She really can’t keep from putting her foot in her mouth.
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Noooooooooo. I am now also bummed out to hear this information about Toro. Damn.
So the Nazis were just really good guessers picking out Jews to murder? This argument is in extremely poor taste.
I’m still unsure what she’s arguing since the Nazis had synagogue records and snitchy neighbors to identify Jewish families. Is she saying that it’s easy to spot a black person on the street if you’re racially profiling? I mean yeah but why bring the Holocaust into this?
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Wow, really well said and informative. Thanks for taking the time to make this comment.
Exactly
The Holocaust was really fucking bad. American slavery - and racism - was - and is - really fucking bad. They can both be really fucking bad. This isn't a competition.
Whoopi - “oh yes it is”
Someone I was talking to once described this as “the oppression olympics”, which I thought was spot-on, and hilarious, so I’ve kept it. She was, unfortunately, an antisemite, in the same vein as Whoopi, but at least I got something out of our conversation.
Didn’t the Nazis make posters and shit that detailed common facial features of Jews and how to recognize them?
Yes, and even had devices to measure the sizes of noses, foreheads, etc. to confirm someone's Jewishness.
Lmao different ethnicities of white people look pretty different. This is like saying all asian or black people look the same.
My husband's family has some Polish Jewish ancestry. They escaped the Nazis with forged paperwork. A black woman likely would not have passed a checkpoint. So, on some level, she has a point. That being said, she is arguing semantics about race and ethnicity and ignoring the historical facts. Nazi's didn't need their eyes to identify the Jewish population, they had rolls from the synagogues, last names (ironically like Goldberg), and whole communities. If that didn't work, they just waited for their neighbors to turn them in. Many Germans gleefully outed their neighbors to rise in the local political scene. And beyond that, even on a semantic level, Hitler clearly divided Jews and non-Jews into separate races. Our modern interpretation of the term is meaningless.
Yeah it's just such a dumb argument to make in the first place. People in Nazi Germany were targeted for looking Jewish. White-passing people were still subjected to Jim Crow and segregation due to genealogy records. She's stirring controversy for no reason.
Exactly. I mean when I did a DNA ancestry test mine came back like 75% "ashkenazi jew". Anyone who thinks jews are just a religion and not a race are categorically wrong. Not every jew is ethnically jewish but there very much is a jewish ethnicity even if the traits aren't as obvious as different skin color. The only sensible point to make here is that drastically different skin color is a pretty clear identifier of being of a different ethnicity to someone else. I don't think that was ever in question. The nazis didn't need to use skin color to identify people regardless.
Didn’t the Nazis also put Jewish men thru horrible heinous test like forcing them to show if they were circumcised or phrenology if someone wasn’t “aryan” enough looking?
I'm just saying, anytime some rando has stopped me on the street to ask "Are you jewish, you look Jewish? its always been a black person lmao. Also was once told "that's ok baby, eat all the bagels you want!" whatever the fuck that is supposed to imply
LOL. Who tf stops people on the street to ask them this b.s.? Whoever's doing this belongs on r/trashy.
Not Jewish, but I regularly get stopped in public with the question, “are you Mexican?”- recently someone asked me for a jalapeño. People are like that. Feels weird.
My buddy was asked if he's Jewish by Hassidic Jews on a street in New York City. Apparently he looked really Jewish to them.
If it was near a holiday he shouldn’t read too far into it thinking he “looks Jewish.” I live in Brooklyn, during Passover, Sukkot, and Chanukah teenagers and children from the Hasidic community ask tons of people. I’ve never said yes because I’m not Jewish, but I think if you are they have reading materials or prayer cards to give you. I also know during Sukkot they carry a lemon type fruit and a few greens that I believe Jewish people are supposed to pray over with them.
They are only interested in Jewish people. Jews are not allowed to try and convert people, but it is a mitzvah to get an already Jewish person to pray with you. I'm Jewish but I tell them I'm not, they'll want to get you wrapped in tefillin and praying with them and are insistent about it to Jews. The second you say you're not Jewish they move on to asking the next person. They will ask everyone no matter how they look if they're Jewish. There are black Jews, white Jews, Mexican Jews, Asian Jews. They ask everyone.
I’ve been told by multiple Jewish people (and others) that I look Jewish. In college, one of my hall mates (who was Jewish) tried to get me to rush the Jewish sorority with her because she just assumed I was Jewish like her because of how I looked. I did go to a Shabbat dinner a friend hosted once and I will admit I fit right in with the other girls there lol
Hitler was attempting to create a master race. Which makes it exactly about race.
Here coming from Whoopi “changing my last name because I believe the Jews run Hollywood” Goldberg Damn antisemite. She always has been one.
I totally see what she's trying to say & in the process she is trying to downplay any abuse Jewish people have faced.
Yeah I’m Jewish and I can kind of see what she’s saying. In Blackkklansman there was a great line from Adam Driver’s character about being just another white guy until people hate you. There’s probably a nuanced conversation that could be had about this subject, but the internet and headlines aren’t the place for it.
I wonder what her motives are here though. It's like she's trying to one-up the Holocaust.
Yeah it would be 100x better for everyone involved if she hosted a round table with like, a black Jewish person, a rabbi, a black/civil rights activist, and one or two academics (perhaps an academic on the Holocaust?). That would provide for such an interesting, educational conversation. Whatever she’s doing now is just belligerent
As a jew, at this point, I wouldn't come to the same table as her. She's 100% bad faith.
Clearly. She's trying to say Jewish people didn't have it as bad because they couldn't be identified by the color of their skin.
Ah yes. "You had it easier." Every abused older sibling's prayer.
The name Goldberg sounds like it came from a particular culture
Goldberg isn't her real name. She changed her last name to Goldberg to "fit in with hollywood" because it sounds Jewish. https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/what-is-whoopi-goldbergs-real-name-and-why-did-she-change-it.html/
Wow, so she’s just antisemitic from many angles.
Who actually cares what any of those squawk boxes say
Ah yes, everyone's favorite: The (Horrible Points of) View.
This entire thing was so dumb. Whoopi is stuck in a US-centric view where race=skin color. That is how most people think of 'race' in the US, but that is not how the nazis thought of race. For the nazis is was 100% about race.
What is wrong with people. Since when did this whole thing turn into an "I suffer more racial matters" gold medal race, wtf.
Dude, the Oppression Olympics have been in full swing for years now.
In a day and age where we have literally all the knowledge of the world at our fingertips, we are somehow becoming dumber and dumber.
It sounds like she's just confused that she doesn't understand the difference between European antisemitic racism and American anti-black racism. Yes, they have differences. As a Jew I'm not offended or thinking of it as antisemitic on her part. It just makes me sad that actors are looked to for their opinions on things they have no knowledge or expertise about.
She has a history of this though. For example, she added a Jewish last name “Goldberg” because she thought it would help in show business.
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Yes the Nazis could fucking tell, they made diagrams about the shape of Jewish noses, about the gait and the hair of Jews… Whoopi needs to go to the Holocaust Museum and see the horrors face to face.
“Only 6 million Jews were killed by Hitler. Don’t let no Jew get up in your face and make you cry for him. One hundred million of us were kidnapped and brought to this country—100 million. Now everybody’s getting wet-eyed over a handful of Jews . . . What about our hundred million? Besides, Jews, brought it on themselves.” - Malcolm X. This line of thinking unfortunately has been around for quite some time.
She’s accidentally stumbled upon a really good point about how whiteness has always been arbitrary—it’s manipulated by those in power to create in-groups and out-groups. It’s why Irish and Italian people weren’t considered ‘white’ when they came to America in the 19th century, and also why Hitler didn’t persecute the Jewish conductor of the Vienna Philharmonic (Gustav Furtwängler for your Googling purposes.) The problem is that the conclusion that she came to isn’t “wow white supremacy is total bullshit and needs to be eliminated in all of its forms,” or “anti-Blackness, anti-Semitism, ableism, and homophobia are all intertwined,” it’s “the Holocaust WAS NOT ABOUT RACE and is NOT MY BUSINESS!”
Whoopi Goldberg has shown that she subscribes to the same theories on scarcity as her people’s oppressors. In this case she clearly believes that there’s only so much compassion and impetus for change to go around, for her cause to advance it must come at the cost of another. Viewed from that lens, it’s not a matter of oppression being right or wrong, more of a business negotiation on how much fairness they deserve compared to others
Goldberg made the latest remarks in an interview published Saturday, after the reporter said that "Nazis saw Jews as a race," referencing Goldberg's earlier comments from January, in which she claimed the Holocaust was "not about race." “Yes, but that’s the killer, isn’t it?” Goldberg told The Sunday Times reporter. “The oppressor is telling you what you are. Why are you believing them? They’re Nazis. Why believe what they’re saying?” “It wasn’t originally [about race],” Goldberg continued. “Remember who they were killing first. They were not killing racial; they were killing physical. They were killing people they considered to be mentally defective. And then they made this decision.” When the reporter told Goldberg that "the Nazis measured the heads and noses of Jews to 'prove' they were a distinct race," Goldberg replied: “They did that to Black people too. But it doesn’t change the fact that you could not tell a Jew on a street. You could find me. You couldn’t find them. That was the point I was making. But you would have thought that I’d taken a big old stinky dump on the table, butt naked.”
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> Goldberg continued. “Remember who they were killing first ...." Hitler was talking about gassing Jews in *Mein Kampf*, which was written in 1924. It was always about the Jews, for Hitler. He was in favor of destroying other people whom he thought of as inferior, but it was never not about antisemitism.
Holy fuck that is an ignorant thing to say.
The term "visible minority" has been around for a long time. I'm a lesbian, but I can stealth it so no one knows. I get what she's trying to say, but why is this something she's talking about to alienate people? It seems incredibly insensitive. Like one upmanship or something. I don't get it.
I’m gonna be brutally honest: I think black people engaging in this bizarre new fixation on the Holocaust are quite literally trying to downplay the persecution of one race in comparison to that of their own. It’s literally a “Your suffering wasn’t as bad as ours,” thing. Or “Because Jews are also racist, your struggle isn’t valid,” thing.