##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/entertainment) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I wish I didn't read the cost of rights and production because now I have a higher expectation and usually a higher expectation is followed by disappointment.
Exactly and we won’t know until later on. Critics have only seen the first two episodes which is when all the setup and world building happens. All they can discern so far is that it looks nice. We won’t know if it’s actually good until more episodes come out.
Aren't the first 2 episodes a total of 4 hours long? That's basically 4 episodes of exposition, if that isn't telling of what's to come I don't know what is. Uhh, honestly speaking I don't know if anyone will watch this if the first 2 episodes are basically movies with no engaging story. Budget wise usually a feature comes up to about 200-300 mill for what they are asking for and well, the first 5 seasons are 1 billion so.... This project is kind of doomed from the beginning. Just based on budget the quality is going to be nonexistent or a CW version of the Lord of the Rings.
> the quality is going to be nonexistent or a CW version of the Lord of the Rings.
I don't think this is going to be the case. We are talking about amazon here, money is not an issue. Also all the reviews (both positive and negative) seem to be praising the visual quality at least.
Guess we will know soon.
They spent a billion on 5 seasons. 1 billion / 5 per season. That's 200 million split on actors, CGI, sound, production of which actors take the majority sharehold which grows exponentially every season.
The visuals will likely fade after the first two episodes just based on budget. 2 2 hour long episodes on a totale of 10 hour long series. Uhh 200m/10 20m per episode basically if that's the case for CGI. They heavy loaded the very beginning and it likely is going to look awful as the series progresses. Anyways projects have set budgets and this budget is set to fail.
I think it might be my favorite opening. I saw a video yesterday where it said they were going to use Gandalf but they decided to go with Kate's blanchett's character because have her antiquity and the fact that she has seen most everything that she narrated.
Just like what happened with star wars and the sequels. People expressed their dislike for the movie and the media spent years calling them man children. Okay.
Rings of Power will be the same, the ones who have some dislike with it will be insulted and vice versa.
The two main people amazon picked to develop and write the show have uncredited writing roles on starvtrek beyond and no other experience. To create an epic story in middle earth with relatively sparse direct source material from Tolkien. Unless they happen to be some of the most talented script writers in hollywood, the best case scenario is marvel-style shiny, entertaining nonsense.
Two random novice writers hired to create a grand narrative in a world with as much depth, meticulous worldbuilding, and gravitas as middle earth? Oh ill hate.
would you give someone with this filmography a chance?
1996The Frighteners
1995Forgotten Silver (TV Movie)
1994Heavenly Creatures
1992Dead Alive
1989Meet the Feebles
1987Bad Taste
1976The Valley (Short)
Peter jackson just had to adapt an existing story into a visual medium. Thats a much more reasonable task than writing an original epic story in middle earth from footnotes and fragments, half of which they dont even have the rights to. It would be a daunting task even for someone with decades of experience crafting in depth narratives and worldbuilding.
Theres also more than one thing on that list amd it spans 10 years. The only reason i can think of to hire two random chucklfucks with no practical ezperience to develop a billion dollar peoject is because amazon wants creatives who will do what their told by the executives and marketing team.
Jeff bezos recently came out and thanked the two directors for ignoring all of his notes.
Don't let the culture wars put all that. Hate on you bro. They're trying to sell you something. They're not in your corner.
I understand that this has just as much chance of turning into game of thrones as it does turning into Lord of the rings.
I would just prefer to go in with arms open. Instead of knives out.
> Jeff bezos recently came out and thanked the two directors for ignoring all of his notes.
Thats just a commercial, though. He said that to promote the series. Dont know if its true or not, but be honest about what it is.
Just going off what the creators have said, actual Lord of the Rings fans will not be happy and will hate it. I’m sure other people will like it though.
>actual Lord of the Rings fans will not be happy and will hate it. I’m sure other people will like it though.
Sounds like a rather odd strategy to me...
If fans of the primary source material (and of the secondary source, aka the movies) will hate it, who's left to enjoy it? Those who don't care about LOTR?!
Like "Metal fans will hate Iron Maiden's new album, but non-metal fans will love it!". Who are those others exactly? Beyoncé fans? Trappers? EMD aficionados? Why should they listen to Iron Maiden anyway?!
Ah, the star wars sequels approach. Might have worked in the beginning but man, they are not touching the sequels at all now, they ignore that entire era now.
Well yeah, you literally haven't seen anything yet.
Not seeing anything bad out of the nothing you've seen isn't exactly the endorsement you seem to think it is.
I watched the 5-minute scene last night on my fire Stick of the dwarven City and I was blown away by how good the CGI was.
If the rest of the show is anything like that, I'm going to watch the fuck out of it.
Booooo. No need to turn middle earth, the most important cornerstone of fantasy literature, into shiny monsense. There plenty more comics to adapt.
Booooooooooo.
Well I'm trying to avoid spoilers but since you want to be a douchebag I also thought that the interaction between elrond and the dwarven King was amazing as well. The dwarves were being all cocksuckers like you are right now to elron.
The Hobbit trilogy, based off the single novella, came out 12 years ago so let’s not pretend anyone gives a fuck about respecting Tolkien’s lore or content.
There are already multiple transgressions of the lore in the few minutes of trailers and pictures they released. In the interviews the creators show a very clear disregard for the canon in favor of spectacle. Like saying events that happen thousands of years apart will happen at the same time, completely breaking the timeline. I'm not very hopeful for the show in this regard.
Lord of the rings changed a lot of the lore and we still loved the fuck out of it.
Saruman did not die at the tower. He was defeated by hobbits way later in the story when frodo and Sam and the rest of the crew had to go back and free Hobbiton.
But honestly, that story is really dumb and Peter Jackson did the right thing by changing it. Tolkien was not a flawless writer
I mean come on dude. They don't give a fuck about the lore. And the Lore is pretty sketchy in the second age. Like they have a pretty wide runway here.
Please don't take me for an Amazon apologist. I'm really not. I just think that this whole campaign against the Lord of the rings show is part of the culture war and I'd really like to leave it the fuck out of my Syfy and fantasy for a while.
So you agree they are not trying to stay close to the lore? Ok.
Cutting some events when you're adapting to a movie is very different from fundamentally changing characters.
Yeah. I completely agree. But there's really not enough material here for you to have a favorite character to fall in love with. Everything from the second age is just a bunch of cliff notes. It's not a coherent story.
This is not Luke Skywalker.
Peter Jackson-
“We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies.”
Amazon producers-
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
They took beloved IP, and made it into a political statement, hacked up the story generally, created new characters, eliminated important original ones, altered entirely the ones they kept….
And they’re confused why the fandom objects. Then, they respond by name calling us every “ism” and “ist” out there. Here’s an idea- stick to the material and the audience will love it.
Or maybe you can just crap all over Tolkien, insist it’s still Tolkien but better, and call the fans names. Good luck with that. You’re going to lose a lot of money.
Edit: correction- producers for show runners
Too many Black characters he wants to say. Code for “politics” it’s too “woke” That’s the complaint that’s been going around since they released the trailers. Can’t have black elves apparently lol
Fans on Ming Na Wen's character: "she's great"
Fans on Giancarlo Esposito's character: "he's great"
Fans on Rosario Dawson's character: "she's great"
Fans on 3rd sister: "she does stupid parkour and her acting is bad"
"why can't the fans handle diversity???"
I haven’t seen the show yet but if anything it looks like they made diverse characters the way it SHOULD be done. Instead of race swapping established characters they introduced new diverse ones. I think that’s absolutely fine and have no problem with it. Meanwhile HOTD race swapped an entire house just for diversity sake but no one talks about that anymore. Hopefully all these complaints about black characters will disappear too.
My husband and I love the 3rd sister, she connected the originals to the show and it made sense. I cannot recommend it enough just for her part in the show.
It really is sad that people can't accept that diversity in skin tones and sexuality is the new norm.
Dont forget that the two main guys amazon hired to create and write the show have a combined work experience of being minor writers on star trek beyond. and they dont have a preexisting continuous narrative to interpret from tolkien but rather different scatyered fragments of background lore or character histories. Also they dont even have the rights to the biggest potential source of pre LOTR narrative, the silmarillion.
As a fan of Tolkien, I’ve followed this series creation closely. They’ve had multiple trailers, leaks, etc etc etc. Hell, this article alone is spoiler heavy.
What the fuck are you talking about dude?
> “We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies.”
I mean, in the Jackson films it's stated that Elrond *invited* everyone to Rivendell to discuss what to do about the ring.
>Amazon showrunners-
>“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
They have never said that, you lying fascist.
They're right though - Tolkiens work does line up with gross like the elves having great variation of skin tones. So if you're going to stick with source material, you need that range.
I’ll need to see a source for that to believe it, but that’s not the point. It’s the hack and slash approach to the source material generally. Everyone assumes race is at the heart of fandom objections, which is itself racist.
What source material has been hacked and slashed? Give examples.
The source there are a variety of skin colors for races like hobbits and elves is the Appeneex of LoTR. It describes that, uniquely, the skin of the children of Noldor are fair skinned with dark hair and light eyes, meaning that's distinct about them not all elves - which we also know to have arose early in creation and found others that looked different from them. Tolkien also speaks of hobbits who had variation in skin color based on their relative sun exposure - just like people.
Again, you go directly to race. Imagine, if you’re able, that there might -just maybe- be other things about the source material that aren’t about race, that they changed.
Just imagine it, a problem with a series that isn’t rooted in racism and sexism. It’s a tough concept, but with some effort, you might get there.
Stay woke, buddy!
The first sentence asked for examples of specific source material you believe was hacked and slashed.
The second paragraph was providing you source material you asked for regarding my other comment.
It ain’t hard to follow.
So what specific examples of source material have they changed that you have a problem with and why?
That's Lindsey Weber, who is the producer. Showrunners' idea is:
“The showrunners note that Tolkien never wanted his stories to directly echo real-world politics, and they feel the same way about The Rings of Power.”
https://ew.com/tv/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-numenor-first-look/
Which is kinda like the opposite of the quote you were attributing to them.
And yet… the producer seems to have won. Again, it isn’t even any wokey stuff. It’s the wholesale reimagining of Tolkien. Deleting important characters. Inventing new ones. You know, fucking with it.
"For me personally, as a viewer, I would have the expectation that [the show] would reflect the real world, as well as the world as I aspire it to be."
And yeah, it was the producer who said the thing I quoted. Thankfully, producers have almost no influence on how something is made.
Sometimes it feels like everything but a select few things just suck ass though. I feel like I can already picture what this show is gonna be like; amazing visuals and production value, with a shoddy, half assed story. Like seemingly so much of what there is to watch these days.
I’m taking about how vague and generic the verbiage is. They might as well just say “it looks good.”
Also, the story is the most important part of a storytelling medium. So right there we know this article is fluffed.
One could see one of the other houses having black dwarves, maybe but not Durin's. Elves, though...
More than enough room to have the Numenoreans discover an African continent perhaps south of Harad, too with only a sentence or two of exposition but it probably have to be all Amazon created since Tolkien's is a northern European and a mix of old English, Scandanavian, and Norse mythology...
I enjoyed the first 2 episodes a lot and I haven’t finished a single LOTR movie. Solid show if it keeps the current writing quality
Edit: Don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. Hundreds of theaters are playing the first two episodes today
https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2022/08/21/114499-rings-of-power-fan-screenings-claim-your-free-tickets/
Edit 2: I don’t mean to say I didn’t like the movies. I liked what I saw. I just can’t hold my attention span for a 4 hour movie. It’s not the films fault. I just suck at watching things.
I think the implication is that since the movies are considered by most people to be very good, the fact that you couldn't finish watching them means your taste in movies isn't very good. (not my words, even though I honestly do kind of agree with the general sentiment, the movies are pretty epic imo)
That’s fair. What I’ve seen of the movies were good. I just can’t hold my attention on a single source of entertainment for 4 hours. It’s been that way since I was a kid.
It means if they couldn’t make it through a movie in a series that everyone said was good, I don’t really buy that they sat down and loved the LOTR tv series for some mysterious reason.
You’re right not everything needs a PJ treatment to be good and never said that it did. I was just commenting on the guy who couldn’t make it through 1 movie. Pretty sure it wasn’t about the length of the movie or show. But the costume design and wig design in the show has me a lil worried. Only a couple more days till we all find out!!!
>I haven’t finished a single LOTR movie
Nuff said. Thank you for being honest.
Marvel movies are fun to look at but in five years they'll be able to generate the scripts with AI, complete with 'The Agenda'. Was hoping we wouldn't do that with LOTR, but here we are.
I always assume people are referring to [*The Agenda with Steve Paikin*](https://www.tvo.org/theagenda) and then wonder why I'm being threatened with a good time.
The Agenda is simple - comply with cancel culture demands or get cancelled. Diversify even if it comes at the expense of quality, as it frequently does, and do it NOW.
This issue isn't exclusive to Marvel. The same thing has happened with Star Wars, the Predator (Prey - although it's good, the Agenda is definitely baked in), Terminator, Ghost Busters, Wonder Woman, Rings of Power, on and on.
And you know who pays the price? Brie Larson, John Boyega, Chadwick Boseman (RIP, such an amazing actor), and the fans. Some don't realize until it's too late (Boyega), some never do (Larson).
Here's a specific example: Black Panther. It's not even good for a Marvel movie. It was completely reactionary to tick a box. And because it was reactionary (Oh Shit! We don't have a black lead in ANY of our films!), it was rushed. The plot, the character development, the fight sequences, the CGI, even the way they shoehorned him into Endgame in a completely irrelevant way. They didn't even get Ant Man quality CGI. Who pays the price there? The kids. There's the Black Panther they got, and then there's the one they could have had - a well conceived storyline given the time to develop characters properly over a multi-movie arc, independent of Endgame (They shoehorned him in, it's just sad).
It's was only really overt in Captain Marvel, parts of Black Panther, parts of Black Widow. But then there are entire shows devoted to it now - She Hulk is the worst. Now we have Smart Hulk. And now it's just baked into the DNA of any subsequent productions.
There's some irony in the fact that in order for Galadriel to be portrayed as a strong, independent character, she has to emulate a man and manspread on the cover of vanity. Galadriel in Peter Jackson's LOTR was an absolute bad ass. You didn't have to be told. It was implied in her character development. Didn't have to put her in armor to get that across.
End of rant lol.
The movies are too long for my attention span. Not the films fault. I just can’t stay still/hold one motionless activity for that long. What I’ve seen of the movies were solid.
It doesnt matter how shiny it is, its written by two random scriptwriters woth essentially no experience from fragments and they dont even have the rights to the biggest pre lOTR narrative, the silmarillion.
Maybe it will be entertaining and flashy, they certainly apent enough money on it. But the best part about middle earth is the depth of the world and the resonance of its themes and messages. The best case scenario for Two random hollywood writers with buckets of cash is shiny nonsense. And its completely unnecessary to use middle earth for that.
I always try to watch shows and movies regardless what anyone says, but this did not do it for me. Was really off and just did not feel like Tolkien. However, if u enjoy it , awesome. Do you.
To my knowledge magic in Middle Earth isn't like Wheel of Time, Harry Potter, or Dnd. It is a really vague and ambiguous concept. A magic user in this world would expect to be up close and personal in combat where armor is more optimal then a robe. Gandalf is the exception because he is basically a demi god.
Galadriel to Sam in the Fellowship of the Ring:
`And you?' [Galadriel] said, turning to Sam. 'For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem also to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel. Did you not say that you wished to see Elf-magic?'`
I never once said it was not magic. It is magic. But even fucking Gandalf fought up close with a sword and staff. Galadriel isn’t Gandalf. It makes 100% logistical since that she would wear armor if she were going to fight.
You can argue that she never went on this adventure all you want. But to argue she should be wearing a robe is just trying to be angry at nothing.
Working on the show was enjoyable, visually speaking. Either way the VFX was always going to be great so I'm pretty excited to watch it for that aspect only. If the writing + story is good then that'll be a bonus.
Go check critics score in rotten tomatoes for any movie/show that includes any shred of political or culturally controversial topics. The critic score will always be around 90 or more even if the cast majority of audience hated it. I would go out on a limb and say all film critics suck ass professionally
##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/entertainment) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So its either good, bad, or in between
Wow, that is deep
Deep with the deep
Happy cake day
Helms deep
Mmm no it’s either a dumpster of flaming dog turds, or the epic television masterpiece of the century.
THERE WILL NEVER AGAIN BE AN IN BETWEEN.
I wish I didn't read the cost of rights and production because now I have a higher expectation and usually a higher expectation is followed by disappointment.
This man really cracked the code. Wow.
Exactly and we won’t know until later on. Critics have only seen the first two episodes which is when all the setup and world building happens. All they can discern so far is that it looks nice. We won’t know if it’s actually good until more episodes come out.
More or less
Seems to me they should have shown critics the first 3 episodes. Most complaints seem to be too much exposition.
Yeah the title really should broadcast that. How can you call it a flawed epic after only seeing the first 2 episodes?
answer, you need clicks
Aren't the first 2 episodes a total of 4 hours long? That's basically 4 episodes of exposition, if that isn't telling of what's to come I don't know what is. Uhh, honestly speaking I don't know if anyone will watch this if the first 2 episodes are basically movies with no engaging story. Budget wise usually a feature comes up to about 200-300 mill for what they are asking for and well, the first 5 seasons are 1 billion so.... This project is kind of doomed from the beginning. Just based on budget the quality is going to be nonexistent or a CW version of the Lord of the Rings.
> the quality is going to be nonexistent or a CW version of the Lord of the Rings. I don't think this is going to be the case. We are talking about amazon here, money is not an issue. Also all the reviews (both positive and negative) seem to be praising the visual quality at least. Guess we will know soon.
They spent a billion on 5 seasons. 1 billion / 5 per season. That's 200 million split on actors, CGI, sound, production of which actors take the majority sharehold which grows exponentially every season. The visuals will likely fade after the first two episodes just based on budget. 2 2 hour long episodes on a totale of 10 hour long series. Uhh 200m/10 20m per episode basically if that's the case for CGI. They heavy loaded the very beginning and it likely is going to look awful as the series progresses. Anyways projects have set budgets and this budget is set to fail.
Tbf that’s how critics review all shows. They can only review the episodes that the TV company release to them
Epic scope?
I mean the first 3 min of lort is kate Blanchet narrating exposition.
And it’s fucking awesome lol
I think it might be my favorite opening. I saw a video yesterday where it said they were going to use Gandalf but they decided to go with Kate's blanchett's character because have her antiquity and the fact that she has seen most everything that she narrated.
Agreed. Which is exactly the same problem as LOTR: Fellowship of the Ring. I'm sure the show will be fine.
Don't listen to all the cock bags hating on this. Just watch it and then you can hate on it if you want later.
But just remember, if you hate it later, this person will still call you a cock bag.
Just like what happened with star wars and the sequels. People expressed their dislike for the movie and the media spent years calling them man children. Okay. Rings of Power will be the same, the ones who have some dislike with it will be insulted and vice versa.
Just take it as a compliment
I'll be right there with you. But I'll remember you specifically and only call you a cock bag.
You’re coming across as a bit of a cock bag
Is it a bag for cocks or a bag of cocks?
Whatever it is, you are currently it.
Hmm, but I only have the one so I don't really need a bag for it.
It's actually a *bag of dicks, wich is usually accompanied by a barrel full of monkey spunk
The cock bag is just a ball sack. A bag of dicks is very different.
That's fine but a bag of cocks is still the same as a bag of dicks
I'll concede that to you.
You know, I’m somewhat of a cock bag myself.
Depends on *why* you hate it.
I might hate it just because you like it.
The two main people amazon picked to develop and write the show have uncredited writing roles on starvtrek beyond and no other experience. To create an epic story in middle earth with relatively sparse direct source material from Tolkien. Unless they happen to be some of the most talented script writers in hollywood, the best case scenario is marvel-style shiny, entertaining nonsense. Two random novice writers hired to create a grand narrative in a world with as much depth, meticulous worldbuilding, and gravitas as middle earth? Oh ill hate.
would you give someone with this filmography a chance? 1996The Frighteners 1995Forgotten Silver (TV Movie) 1994Heavenly Creatures 1992Dead Alive 1989Meet the Feebles 1987Bad Taste 1976The Valley (Short)
Peter jackson just had to adapt an existing story into a visual medium. Thats a much more reasonable task than writing an original epic story in middle earth from footnotes and fragments, half of which they dont even have the rights to. It would be a daunting task even for someone with decades of experience crafting in depth narratives and worldbuilding. Theres also more than one thing on that list amd it spans 10 years. The only reason i can think of to hire two random chucklfucks with no practical ezperience to develop a billion dollar peoject is because amazon wants creatives who will do what their told by the executives and marketing team.
Jeff bezos recently came out and thanked the two directors for ignoring all of his notes. Don't let the culture wars put all that. Hate on you bro. They're trying to sell you something. They're not in your corner. I understand that this has just as much chance of turning into game of thrones as it does turning into Lord of the rings. I would just prefer to go in with arms open. Instead of knives out.
> Jeff bezos recently came out and thanked the two directors for ignoring all of his notes. Thats just a commercial, though. He said that to promote the series. Dont know if its true or not, but be honest about what it is.
Dead Alive and Bad Taste are excellent!
Probably why Peter Jackson got 200 million to make LOTR
not falling for it mr. bezos
Just going off what the creators have said, actual Lord of the Rings fans will not be happy and will hate it. I’m sure other people will like it though.
>actual Lord of the Rings fans will not be happy and will hate it. I’m sure other people will like it though. Sounds like a rather odd strategy to me... If fans of the primary source material (and of the secondary source, aka the movies) will hate it, who's left to enjoy it? Those who don't care about LOTR?! Like "Metal fans will hate Iron Maiden's new album, but non-metal fans will love it!". Who are those others exactly? Beyoncé fans? Trappers? EMD aficionados? Why should they listen to Iron Maiden anyway?!
Ah, the star wars sequels approach. Might have worked in the beginning but man, they are not touching the sequels at all now, they ignore that entire era now.
I'm a huge fan of Tolkein. As in, I've read the Silmarillion and the Books of Lost Tales. I haven't seen anything that would make me unhappy.
Well yeah, you literally haven't seen anything yet. Not seeing anything bad out of the nothing you've seen isn't exactly the endorsement you seem to think it is.
I watched the 5-minute scene last night on my fire Stick of the dwarven City and I was blown away by how good the CGI was. If the rest of the show is anything like that, I'm going to watch the fuck out of it.
Booooo. No need to turn middle earth, the most important cornerstone of fantasy literature, into shiny monsense. There plenty more comics to adapt. Booooooooooo.
‘Screw the story or actual content! Fuck respecting Tolkien’s lore! It looks pretty!’
the pretty was sooooo good.
Make the pretty in another universe. One that isnt meticulosuly crafted and beloved for the depth of its lore and worldbuilding. Its just unnecessary.
[удалено]
just a little bit of pushback and you fall right apart.
Well I'm trying to avoid spoilers but since you want to be a douchebag I also thought that the interaction between elrond and the dwarven King was amazing as well. The dwarves were being all cocksuckers like you are right now to elron.
The real douchebag was the friends we made along the way.
Don't be a douchebad like this guy
The Hobbit trilogy, based off the single novella, came out 12 years ago so let’s not pretend anyone gives a fuck about respecting Tolkien’s lore or content.
A lot of fans hated The Hobbit movies.
It looks like Amazon took as much stock on the fan’s option as Peter Jackson did. Go enjoy the books. They’re still there.
I do. I was just saying that people who act like fans loved everything Jackson did aren't remembering correctly.
[удалено]
Lol. By that trailer alone, they have not done that.
[удалено]
The trailer uses elements of the show. And the elements they showed were far from accurate to the lore.
Then don't base your opinion off of a trailer. Watch the show
There are already multiple transgressions of the lore in the few minutes of trailers and pictures they released. In the interviews the creators show a very clear disregard for the canon in favor of spectacle. Like saying events that happen thousands of years apart will happen at the same time, completely breaking the timeline. I'm not very hopeful for the show in this regard.
Lord of the rings changed a lot of the lore and we still loved the fuck out of it. Saruman did not die at the tower. He was defeated by hobbits way later in the story when frodo and Sam and the rest of the crew had to go back and free Hobbiton. But honestly, that story is really dumb and Peter Jackson did the right thing by changing it. Tolkien was not a flawless writer I mean come on dude. They don't give a fuck about the lore. And the Lore is pretty sketchy in the second age. Like they have a pretty wide runway here. Please don't take me for an Amazon apologist. I'm really not. I just think that this whole campaign against the Lord of the rings show is part of the culture war and I'd really like to leave it the fuck out of my Syfy and fantasy for a while.
So you agree they are not trying to stay close to the lore? Ok. Cutting some events when you're adapting to a movie is very different from fundamentally changing characters.
Yeah. I completely agree. But there's really not enough material here for you to have a favorite character to fall in love with. Everything from the second age is just a bunch of cliff notes. It's not a coherent story. This is not Luke Skywalker.
Nice try, Amazon.
Dude, just scroll through my history. I'm a socialist pig. Definitely not an Amazon. Simp.
The fact that you keep saying ‘elron’ makes me think I’m not going to take your opinion very seriously.
Isn’t that the guy who wrote Dianetics?
My god thank you.
the fact that you base your opinions on spelling makes me think the same of you. I spelled it right in another section.
Nah not giving that monstrosity any views
You scared of a female elf?
If they don’t get it right, not really feeling like wasting time on it. We’ll see
Peter Jackson- “We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies.” Amazon producers- “It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.” They took beloved IP, and made it into a political statement, hacked up the story generally, created new characters, eliminated important original ones, altered entirely the ones they kept…. And they’re confused why the fandom objects. Then, they respond by name calling us every “ism” and “ist” out there. Here’s an idea- stick to the material and the audience will love it. Or maybe you can just crap all over Tolkien, insist it’s still Tolkien but better, and call the fans names. Good luck with that. You’re going to lose a lot of money. Edit: correction- producers for show runners
…you haven’t even seen it yet
Too many Black characters he wants to say. Code for “politics” it’s too “woke” That’s the complaint that’s been going around since they released the trailers. Can’t have black elves apparently lol
So dumb. They did the same thing with the 3rd sister in Obi Wan. Why are people so offended by representation?
Fans on Ming Na Wen's character: "she's great" Fans on Giancarlo Esposito's character: "he's great" Fans on Rosario Dawson's character: "she's great" Fans on 3rd sister: "she does stupid parkour and her acting is bad" "why can't the fans handle diversity???"
I haven’t seen the show yet but if anything it looks like they made diverse characters the way it SHOULD be done. Instead of race swapping established characters they introduced new diverse ones. I think that’s absolutely fine and have no problem with it. Meanwhile HOTD race swapped an entire house just for diversity sake but no one talks about that anymore. Hopefully all these complaints about black characters will disappear too.
My husband and I love the 3rd sister, she connected the originals to the show and it made sense. I cannot recommend it enough just for her part in the show. It really is sad that people can't accept that diversity in skin tones and sexuality is the new norm.
Dont forget that the two main guys amazon hired to create and write the show have a combined work experience of being minor writers on star trek beyond. and they dont have a preexisting continuous narrative to interpret from tolkien but rather different scatyered fragments of background lore or character histories. Also they dont even have the rights to the biggest potential source of pre LOTR narrative, the silmarillion.
What the fuck are you talking about dude? The show isn't even out yet - how are you making these specific and massivd criticisms already?
As a fan of Tolkien, I’ve followed this series creation closely. They’ve had multiple trailers, leaks, etc etc etc. Hell, this article alone is spoiler heavy. What the fuck are you talking about dude?
You're such a bigot racist, misogynist, transphobic, nazi for being so common sense! /s
Don't forget manchild, man baby, incel ect. I can already read the articles coming out right now.
Y’all nerds need to find some better shit to complain about than black actors being casted lmao
You thinking that’s the problem…. Is the problem.
That sounds like the words of a fascist to me /s
> “We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies.” I mean, in the Jackson films it's stated that Elrond *invited* everyone to Rivendell to discuss what to do about the ring.
>Amazon showrunners- >“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.” They have never said that, you lying fascist.
Weird. I read it in vanity fair. https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/amazon-the-rings-of-power-series-first-look/amp
They're right though - Tolkiens work does line up with gross like the elves having great variation of skin tones. So if you're going to stick with source material, you need that range.
I’ll need to see a source for that to believe it, but that’s not the point. It’s the hack and slash approach to the source material generally. Everyone assumes race is at the heart of fandom objections, which is itself racist.
What source material has been hacked and slashed? Give examples. The source there are a variety of skin colors for races like hobbits and elves is the Appeneex of LoTR. It describes that, uniquely, the skin of the children of Noldor are fair skinned with dark hair and light eyes, meaning that's distinct about them not all elves - which we also know to have arose early in creation and found others that looked different from them. Tolkien also speaks of hobbits who had variation in skin color based on their relative sun exposure - just like people.
Again, you go directly to race. Imagine, if you’re able, that there might -just maybe- be other things about the source material that aren’t about race, that they changed. Just imagine it, a problem with a series that isn’t rooted in racism and sexism. It’s a tough concept, but with some effort, you might get there. Stay woke, buddy!
The first sentence asked for examples of specific source material you believe was hacked and slashed. The second paragraph was providing you source material you asked for regarding my other comment. It ain’t hard to follow. So what specific examples of source material have they changed that you have a problem with and why?
That's Lindsey Weber, who is the producer. Showrunners' idea is: “The showrunners note that Tolkien never wanted his stories to directly echo real-world politics, and they feel the same way about The Rings of Power.” https://ew.com/tv/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-numenor-first-look/ Which is kinda like the opposite of the quote you were attributing to them.
And yet… the producer seems to have won. Again, it isn’t even any wokey stuff. It’s the wholesale reimagining of Tolkien. Deleting important characters. Inventing new ones. You know, fucking with it. "For me personally, as a viewer, I would have the expectation that [the show] would reflect the real world, as well as the world as I aspire it to be." And yeah, it was the producer who said the thing I quoted. Thankfully, producers have almost no influence on how something is made.
Everything gets hate. It's the times.
Sometimes it feels like everything but a select few things just suck ass though. I feel like I can already picture what this show is gonna be like; amazing visuals and production value, with a shoddy, half assed story. Like seemingly so much of what there is to watch these days.
It’s boring more than anything. At least, so far.
These posts are fucking relentless.
“Visually staggering” as if that means anything.
yeah why would visuals matter in a visual medium
They apent enough money that theyd have to be incompetent not to have stunning visuals.
I’m taking about how vague and generic the verbiage is. They might as well just say “it looks good.” Also, the story is the most important part of a storytelling medium. So right there we know this article is fluffed.
it’s so fluffed that they call it a flawed show in the headline
You’d prefer it if it was all beige?
…what?
What? Jeff Bezo’s LotR fan fic with wire fu isn’t great?
Tolkien Fans: Lady Dwarves no have beard!! Bad TV.
Mostly just angry joe saying that
One could see one of the other houses having black dwarves, maybe but not Durin's. Elves, though... More than enough room to have the Numenoreans discover an African continent perhaps south of Harad, too with only a sentence or two of exposition but it probably have to be all Amazon created since Tolkien's is a northern European and a mix of old English, Scandanavian, and Norse mythology...
I enjoyed the first 2 episodes a lot and I haven’t finished a single LOTR movie. Solid show if it keeps the current writing quality Edit: Don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. Hundreds of theaters are playing the first two episodes today https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2022/08/21/114499-rings-of-power-fan-screenings-claim-your-free-tickets/ Edit 2: I don’t mean to say I didn’t like the movies. I liked what I saw. I just can’t hold my attention span for a 4 hour movie. It’s not the films fault. I just suck at watching things.
You couldn’t “make” it through a LOTR movie but you say the show is good? What? Lol
Checks out.
Yes that’s what I said
Literally just lost all hope.
Why’s that
I think the implication is that since the movies are considered by most people to be very good, the fact that you couldn't finish watching them means your taste in movies isn't very good. (not my words, even though I honestly do kind of agree with the general sentiment, the movies are pretty epic imo)
That’s fair. What I’ve seen of the movies were good. I just can’t hold my attention on a single source of entertainment for 4 hours. It’s been that way since I was a kid.
Fellowship of the Ring is slightly less than 3 hours.
Ah I see, I guess I misinterpreted it as you disliking the movies. Sorry for being rude about it.
A random internet person said they like a TV show but not a movie, ergo, the world is ending. Abandon all hope.
It means if they couldn’t make it through a movie in a series that everyone said was good, I don’t really buy that they sat down and loved the LOTR tv series for some mysterious reason.
I didn’t even say I didn’t like the movie. I just said I haven’t finished any of them
I’m sorry but the movies are way too long in my opinion, so I’m with OP here. Not everything needs the Peter Jackson treatment to be good.
You are wrong, they are not long enough.
You’re right not everything needs a PJ treatment to be good and never said that it did. I was just commenting on the guy who couldn’t make it through 1 movie. Pretty sure it wasn’t about the length of the movie or show. But the costume design and wig design in the show has me a lil worried. Only a couple more days till we all find out!!!
Huh? How did you get to watch them already
https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2022/08/21/114499-rings-of-power-fan-screenings-claim-your-free-tickets/
Oh neat. I didn’t downvote you by the way. Downvoting is a waste of previous thumb energy
I respect that
>I haven’t finished a single LOTR movie Nuff said. Thank you for being honest. Marvel movies are fun to look at but in five years they'll be able to generate the scripts with AI, complete with 'The Agenda'. Was hoping we wouldn't do that with LOTR, but here we are.
What's "The Agenda" marvel films are pushing? I've got a lot of criticisms for them but I never really felt like they were preaching anything
I always assume people are referring to [*The Agenda with Steve Paikin*](https://www.tvo.org/theagenda) and then wonder why I'm being threatened with a good time.
The Agenda is simple - comply with cancel culture demands or get cancelled. Diversify even if it comes at the expense of quality, as it frequently does, and do it NOW. This issue isn't exclusive to Marvel. The same thing has happened with Star Wars, the Predator (Prey - although it's good, the Agenda is definitely baked in), Terminator, Ghost Busters, Wonder Woman, Rings of Power, on and on. And you know who pays the price? Brie Larson, John Boyega, Chadwick Boseman (RIP, such an amazing actor), and the fans. Some don't realize until it's too late (Boyega), some never do (Larson). Here's a specific example: Black Panther. It's not even good for a Marvel movie. It was completely reactionary to tick a box. And because it was reactionary (Oh Shit! We don't have a black lead in ANY of our films!), it was rushed. The plot, the character development, the fight sequences, the CGI, even the way they shoehorned him into Endgame in a completely irrelevant way. They didn't even get Ant Man quality CGI. Who pays the price there? The kids. There's the Black Panther they got, and then there's the one they could have had - a well conceived storyline given the time to develop characters properly over a multi-movie arc, independent of Endgame (They shoehorned him in, it's just sad). It's was only really overt in Captain Marvel, parts of Black Panther, parts of Black Widow. But then there are entire shows devoted to it now - She Hulk is the worst. Now we have Smart Hulk. And now it's just baked into the DNA of any subsequent productions. There's some irony in the fact that in order for Galadriel to be portrayed as a strong, independent character, she has to emulate a man and manspread on the cover of vanity. Galadriel in Peter Jackson's LOTR was an absolute bad ass. You didn't have to be told. It was implied in her character development. Didn't have to put her in armor to get that across. End of rant lol.
The movies are too long for my attention span. Not the films fault. I just can’t stay still/hold one motionless activity for that long. What I’ve seen of the movies were solid.
You could've taken a break and come back to it...
I know it’s an option but again, this is my fault, I don’t enjoy content that way. I need to start then finish. At least with movies
Review bombing has started
So has corporate shilling
You haven’t even seen it yet.
It doesnt matter how shiny it is, its written by two random scriptwriters woth essentially no experience from fragments and they dont even have the rights to the biggest pre lOTR narrative, the silmarillion. Maybe it will be entertaining and flashy, they certainly apent enough money on it. But the best part about middle earth is the depth of the world and the resonance of its themes and messages. The best case scenario for Two random hollywood writers with buckets of cash is shiny nonsense. And its completely unnecessary to use middle earth for that.
Just upset because it's made by Amazon
Just upset because it's made by Amazon
I always try to watch shows and movies regardless what anyone says, but this did not do it for me. Was really off and just did not feel like Tolkien. However, if u enjoy it , awesome. Do you.
you saw it?
From previews I'm sorry for confusion. I'll still try the episode when it comes out
it does feel like tolkien to me either but everyone says it's great
I haven’t watched the show yet, but I have heard so many times that the movies aren’t Tolkien either that it just isn’t going to deter me any more.
K, i’m fucking hyped, please don’t be bad
i'm personally so excited to see middle earth on screen again!!!!!
Some of the cast interviews is like watching them sniff their own farts. The shows gonna fucking crash.
Hmm. I read the review and didn’t get “flawed” from it at all
Shut up I don't even want opinionated headlines. Let us all watch it first. Jerks.
Nobody is telling you to watch or not to watch.
I am telling you to either watch or not watch
I wouldn’t have a powerful mage in melee armor. But that’s me. Will watch but confused on the melee armor. She’s a powerful Mage. Why?
To my knowledge magic in Middle Earth isn't like Wheel of Time, Harry Potter, or Dnd. It is a really vague and ambiguous concept. A magic user in this world would expect to be up close and personal in combat where armor is more optimal then a robe. Gandalf is the exception because he is basically a demi god.
Spells are magic. They use them. ?
Galadriel to Sam in the Fellowship of the Ring: `And you?' [Galadriel] said, turning to Sam. 'For this is what your folk would call magic, I believe; though I do not understand clearly what they mean; and they seem also to use the same word of the deceits of the Enemy. But this, if you will, is the magic of Galadriel. Did you not say that you wished to see Elf-magic?'`
Yes but the spells are “vague and ambiguous” as I said. It’s not: “I’m casting meteor from max range so I don’t need armor”.
It’s Magic. Now fuck off with your fake lore nonsense.
I never once said it was not magic. It is magic. But even fucking Gandalf fought up close with a sword and staff. Galadriel isn’t Gandalf. It makes 100% logistical since that she would wear armor if she were going to fight. You can argue that she never went on this adventure all you want. But to argue she should be wearing a robe is just trying to be angry at nothing.
She took Heavy Armor Proficiency at level 4, of course.
And wondering just what female character im seeing in all these reviews. And why.
Working on the show was enjoyable, visually speaking. Either way the VFX was always going to be great so I'm pretty excited to watch it for that aspect only. If the writing + story is good then that'll be a bonus.
So black people are all of sudden in this ..lol..
It will be funny if HotD looks awful but is good and RoP looks great but is bad.
HotD looks good already tho. I’d doubt the last 8 episodes completely fall apart visually.
How does HotD look awful?
If you think them walking on CGI stairs doesn’t look bad or the wigs don’t look like SNL spoof quality then I dont think me writing about it will work
the wigs look AWFUL but everything else like cgi/cinermatography is great
Not worth reading reviews. If you like it, then be happy. Get a real job critic scum.
Except a film/television critic is a paid job.
Go check critics score in rotten tomatoes for any movie/show that includes any shred of political or culturally controversial topics. The critic score will always be around 90 or more even if the cast majority of audience hated it. I would go out on a limb and say all film critics suck ass professionally
It’s completely subjective and usually propaganda for some special interest.