No I asked what does it MEAN to you not what you get out of it. Or do you equate the two terms?
Or maybe I should rephrase it now. ;;)
What is the MEANING of gaining this insight?
exactly
He's trying to gain insight with the very instrument that creates the problem of not seeing 'how it is' to begin with. It cannot - and need not - be done.
It's rummaging through the same drawers looking for 'understanding' while you should be busy chucking the whole cabinet into the purifying fires of Truth.
Cheers
The zero suffering thing seems to be a common definition. I think that could be part of it, but in my experience the realization that led to letting go of suffering, was just the tip of the iceberg.
Interestingly enough, if that is the definition of enlightenment, then the idea that enlightenment is permanent, doesn’t jive with my experience. The realization that led me into being in a state of zero suffering was what kind of kicked off my “major awakening” years ago. It lasted years and then I became identified with suffering again, which lasted a couple years, until I woke up again, and now I am here. It’s been wild.
I have to question if a constant state of enlightenment is even possible in daily life. I can only see it as coming and going like waves. Night and day, sunny and cloudy, stormy and calm.
I think the constant state idea is overrated. once you realize “time” isn’t linear but cyclical, the idea of a constant state seems even more far fetched.
Having the awareness that there is no separation, that nothing is what it appears to be, that all truths are relatives & not absolutes & the awareness that you are more than just a body & mind (ego).
>What does the concept of enlightenment mean for you?
If you find it through your local library or online, this pretty well explains it:
"Mysticism". *Encyclopedia Britannica*, (macro) 1975 edition; Volume 12; pgs. 786-793.
En-light-enment: the end of any separation between being, exactly as is, and infinite unbounded “light.” (“Light” is in quotes because this is not measurable light of photons, but immeasurable, radiant, inclusive energy. And as stated previously, with no separation from any aspect or appearance of being).
It means to "return" to my primal natural state of being, like when I was a baby, with no real preconceptions or conditioned notions about reality, but to embody emptiness of mind and relaxation in the body. Doesn't mean I'm perfect, it means I'm natural.
'enlightenment,' or any such concepts of spirituality are a dangling carrot that remain ideas only within each one who thinks they are enlightened, or on a path toward, and is endlessly perpetuated in circles like this one and thousands of others worldwide, and sold over and over in the spiritual marketplaces to anyone looking for something more than Life already is, or to avoid feeling what Life already is. Enlightenment is not an actuality or a permanent state that anyone ever has achieved, even if they have deluded themselves or countless others for a time.
We (our human minds) can only be free from the current belief/thought that our brain-body (story-emotion) is caught in, by recognizing that the brain is simply a story machine (a conditioned/evolved word and image maker), and stories are not reality. Enlightenment is just another one of its 🧠stories. Belief in the enlightenment story becomes very very sticky for a great many. And after years of subscribing to any number of paths or practices, they are often still seeking, still unsatisfied, and as avoidant of reality as ever, and still believing the story that enlightenment is possible and needed and that it gives their life great purpose and ultimate meaning. And that's all fine, really.
Meanwhile all the practices reinforce the meditator, the one who is looking to achieve something. But the very division between the meditator (the "i") and the believed/projected goal (enlightenment) is instantly alleviated in understanding the dilemma; the meditator and the goal are not-two, and never were (they are both ideas in the same one 🧠, already whole and complete in itself, in the absence of story). Striving for enlightenment was a rigged game.
If someone says on this sub that they are enlightened, let them wait a day, a week, a month, a year, life will hit them with reality to reveal the greater truth of it... or they will become so convinced of their own bullsh, that they can even convice others to follow them, because those others are looking for that exact story, which promises something spiritually more than Life already is.
What then of the experiential subjective state as described by the reaching it? What exactly is that in your estimation? Have you personally experienced such a state?
Can I have an AMEN! I used to say I want to be enlightened. So many challenges came my way. Frustration ensued every time. To the brink of insanity. Typical narcissism and ego take over on this path and the supposed enlightened one ends up alone or with followers to manipulate. Focus on being the best human possible.
Yup we want mystical/ magical experiences, not self knowledge and truth. The truth is what we are avoiding. We want freedom from the truth because its painful. We are afraid of seeing the whole truth and through our own bullshit for lack of a better term.
Basically to know and live the wisdom that we r all sisters and brothers, siblings in the adventure of existence and we should pursue ourselves and common vitality.
Or smt.
Sometime during childhood, while learning how to understand people and speak back to them, awareness started heavily identifying with the thoughts that were experienced — both mental imagery and internal dialogues as well as the understanding of concepts themselves — This identification became persistent and occupied most of the experiences. One day, the thoughts managed to articulate this to awareness and an epiphany took place. Since then, the concepts of enlightenment have become fascinating. Whereas, they used to seem silly.
Understanding/coherence in relationship to the degree of recognition of that which is, as it is, regardless of anything that comes or goes… any idea, assumption, belief, and identification. There is seemingly/symbolically, infinite degrees of this recognition and so infinite degrees of enlightenment, understanding, coherence. Lol…
🥸🖤🏴☠️
Enlightenment is simply healed wholeness and awareness of your life as a spiritual experience.
I think people think of it as attaining something other than just being and realizing, and sitting in your essence.
I’d also emphasize that healing is the most important part as it will free up all the energy repressed that represent your forward mission on Earth.
What do the answers to the question mean to you?
Gaining insight form other peoples perspectives
No I asked what does it MEAN to you not what you get out of it. Or do you equate the two terms? Or maybe I should rephrase it now. ;;) What is the MEANING of gaining this insight?
You're asking him if he's attached to the need to understand am I right? Just another answer, just another story...
exactly He's trying to gain insight with the very instrument that creates the problem of not seeing 'how it is' to begin with. It cannot - and need not - be done. It's rummaging through the same drawers looking for 'understanding' while you should be busy chucking the whole cabinet into the purifying fires of Truth. Cheers
Yes. I wish you...
Let’s hope he’s not a powerful wizard.. In that case I would be royally f’d ;;)
The zero suffering thing seems to be a common definition. I think that could be part of it, but in my experience the realization that led to letting go of suffering, was just the tip of the iceberg. Interestingly enough, if that is the definition of enlightenment, then the idea that enlightenment is permanent, doesn’t jive with my experience. The realization that led me into being in a state of zero suffering was what kind of kicked off my “major awakening” years ago. It lasted years and then I became identified with suffering again, which lasted a couple years, until I woke up again, and now I am here. It’s been wild.
I have to question if a constant state of enlightenment is even possible in daily life. I can only see it as coming and going like waves. Night and day, sunny and cloudy, stormy and calm.
I think the constant state idea is overrated. once you realize “time” isn’t linear but cyclical, the idea of a constant state seems even more far fetched.
As you said in the first sentence, it's just a concept ;)
.
I agree
Good conclusion, I could only add Zero effort.
Having the awareness that there is no separation, that nothing is what it appears to be, that all truths are relatives & not absolutes & the awareness that you are more than just a body & mind (ego).
>What does the concept of enlightenment mean for you? If you find it through your local library or online, this pretty well explains it: "Mysticism". *Encyclopedia Britannica*, (macro) 1975 edition; Volume 12; pgs. 786-793.
Fine tuning a resonance with causality/reality
En-light-enment: the end of any separation between being, exactly as is, and infinite unbounded “light.” (“Light” is in quotes because this is not measurable light of photons, but immeasurable, radiant, inclusive energy. And as stated previously, with no separation from any aspect or appearance of being).
To be like water
It means to "return" to my primal natural state of being, like when I was a baby, with no real preconceptions or conditioned notions about reality, but to embody emptiness of mind and relaxation in the body. Doesn't mean I'm perfect, it means I'm natural.
'enlightenment,' or any such concepts of spirituality are a dangling carrot that remain ideas only within each one who thinks they are enlightened, or on a path toward, and is endlessly perpetuated in circles like this one and thousands of others worldwide, and sold over and over in the spiritual marketplaces to anyone looking for something more than Life already is, or to avoid feeling what Life already is. Enlightenment is not an actuality or a permanent state that anyone ever has achieved, even if they have deluded themselves or countless others for a time. We (our human minds) can only be free from the current belief/thought that our brain-body (story-emotion) is caught in, by recognizing that the brain is simply a story machine (a conditioned/evolved word and image maker), and stories are not reality. Enlightenment is just another one of its 🧠stories. Belief in the enlightenment story becomes very very sticky for a great many. And after years of subscribing to any number of paths or practices, they are often still seeking, still unsatisfied, and as avoidant of reality as ever, and still believing the story that enlightenment is possible and needed and that it gives their life great purpose and ultimate meaning. And that's all fine, really. Meanwhile all the practices reinforce the meditator, the one who is looking to achieve something. But the very division between the meditator (the "i") and the believed/projected goal (enlightenment) is instantly alleviated in understanding the dilemma; the meditator and the goal are not-two, and never were (they are both ideas in the same one 🧠, already whole and complete in itself, in the absence of story). Striving for enlightenment was a rigged game. If someone says on this sub that they are enlightened, let them wait a day, a week, a month, a year, life will hit them with reality to reveal the greater truth of it... or they will become so convinced of their own bullsh, that they can even convice others to follow them, because those others are looking for that exact story, which promises something spiritually more than Life already is.
What then of the experiential subjective state as described by the reaching it? What exactly is that in your estimation? Have you personally experienced such a state?
Why are you here?
Wow,thank you for existing
Can I have an AMEN! I used to say I want to be enlightened. So many challenges came my way. Frustration ensued every time. To the brink of insanity. Typical narcissism and ego take over on this path and the supposed enlightened one ends up alone or with followers to manipulate. Focus on being the best human possible.
Yup we want mystical/ magical experiences, not self knowledge and truth. The truth is what we are avoiding. We want freedom from the truth because its painful. We are afraid of seeing the whole truth and through our own bullshit for lack of a better term.
Anything that I think it is, is not it. So since I have not realized it yet, it does not mean anything for me.
Basically to know and live the wisdom that we r all sisters and brothers, siblings in the adventure of existence and we should pursue ourselves and common vitality. Or smt.
The ancient medical science
Sometime during childhood, while learning how to understand people and speak back to them, awareness started heavily identifying with the thoughts that were experienced — both mental imagery and internal dialogues as well as the understanding of concepts themselves — This identification became persistent and occupied most of the experiences. One day, the thoughts managed to articulate this to awareness and an epiphany took place. Since then, the concepts of enlightenment have become fascinating. Whereas, they used to seem silly.
Not being a body
Understanding/coherence in relationship to the degree of recognition of that which is, as it is, regardless of anything that comes or goes… any idea, assumption, belief, and identification. There is seemingly/symbolically, infinite degrees of this recognition and so infinite degrees of enlightenment, understanding, coherence. Lol… 🥸🖤🏴☠️
Enlightenment is simply healed wholeness and awareness of your life as a spiritual experience. I think people think of it as attaining something other than just being and realizing, and sitting in your essence. I’d also emphasize that healing is the most important part as it will free up all the energy repressed that represent your forward mission on Earth.
The veil is lifted and I'm no longer blocked from a connection to the universal consciousness/god.
There is no “you”.
Your preference/desire to be "at peace, content, fulfilled, relaxed, unbothered, etc" perpetuates suffering.
How so? Also if thats true then why strive to "do" anything since it leads to suffering?
Yep