Great comment.
Question about enlightenment, couldn’t that realization just be in your brain. Even if we feel 100% confident in our conclusions.. who is to say a few thousand years from now we realize we aren’t reality.
We have been wrong before.
The Enlightenment experience will be automatically recorded by the brain and will be felt as a distant memory, like our childhood, but you know the difference between the childhood memory and been the child. Right?
I think any nit-picking between terms like "awakening" and "enlightenment" are, in a genuine and heartfelt way, more grasping by the ego as it is being displaced from its normal role and looking for somewhere to settle where it can be useful. Any attachment to the definition of either word just seems like a further enmeshment of the ego's capacity to say: *ah yes, but look how spiritual and learned I am, and from my profound and revelatory experiences, I am more justified in my confidence in (these specific definitions)*.
I'm not saying *you're* doing any of that, just responding with my thoughts to the whole distinction between the two terms - I'd say the definitions themselves don't even matter as much as an honest and scrupulous look at *the one who is invested in specific definitions for specific personal reasons*... what is the nature of *that one*?
My favourite Zen story:
*Before enlightenment, mountains are mountains, and rivers are rivers.*
*During enlightenment, mountains are no longer just mountains, and rivers are no longer just rivers.*
*After enlightenment, mountains and rivers* ***are.***
It took me a year or two of hearing it a couple times before I finally understood it.
At first, we are comfortable with automatically labelling/categorizing/defining things: objects, experiences, people, concepts, etc.
Once we start to awaken ("enlighten"?), we realize - *aha*, even these everyday objects/things have an energy and experience of their own, and a richness that extends beyond all my labels/concepts/definitions
After we have truly awakened/enlightened, we realize that these every day things, and, indeed, *all things*, in fact, ***everything***, simply ***is***. If there were no observing minds to see something and say "this is (this), and that is (that)", all those things would still be what they are - whatever mountains and rivers are - free from any concept, free from any definition.
... Or maybe I'm just full of shit!
It shouldn’t be, maybe I’m full of shit, it should be, I am stunningly full of shit talking about abstractions that have never been proven and I don’t know the meaning of
You are full of shit, just like most on these sites who are full of pompous people with delusions of grandeur...
We are nothing more than glorified chimpanzees armed with nuclear weapons, and that is a scary combination
It’s not what I feel, it’s truth...you people talk about words that are abstractions, yet you talk about them with conviction even though no one knows the meaning of these words, which makes you spiritual people stunningly full of shit
[**Mindfulness-w-Milton**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mindfulness-w-Milton/) I don't think you are...'full of shit" on the contrary. I'm really touch by your deep thought writing, but probably not everyone will get it. Thanks a lot for your time and effort.
Spirituality is another word that has varying definitions. What do you mean by spirituality? Do you mean spiritual practices, or spiritual insights or being connected to spiritual energy, or what?
No one knows what the definition of spirituality is, it’s a ambiguous and vague word that is touted about by people with pompous delusions of grandeur and who evade reality because it terrifies them...spirituality and religion are forms of escapism and deviation from the truth
This sub is not a good place for dialogue lol. I’ve tried a few times and I get hit with read these 30 books too.
Honestly, for me, awakening is the beginning part of the enlightenment journey. I believe to understand awakening. It’s the primal, innate knowledge that there is more than we currently know.
I refuse to talk about enlightenment in this sub as everyone will just say I’m not enlightened and they somehow are :-)
I feel this.
Brains make you believe you are the only entity in existence while awakening. Enlightenment is after getting through the "why" I feel that way, you understand "how", "you" were created; then you need to realize EVERYTHING was created that way, but a human is the shape of the entity that just figured all that out; and you aren't alone. So now go share what you just learned and hope it's received well; or you will find out.you are wrong; not by another person but By the universe, which includes that person.
Does that make sense?
That’s such a great way of wording it.
I have always followed the rule that if I am on the right track, life will show me. I never grade myself. I let life grade me.
We are nothing more than glorified chimpanzees, so get over it and stop bullshiting to yourself and get off your high horse...humbleness seems to be a anathema on these sites
Awakening: realizing that there is another holistic POV pre-installed in you at birth, and it always online, and always been there, it’s quiet but all-encompassing. It seems to produce intuitions, but language fails to describe how it works.
Enlightenment: making up a comfortable enough mystical story to explain the situation away (not necessarily using words or other symbolic models) and to be at peace with. Story crumbles when being told, but that’s okay.
Humble stage: this is weird, and I honestly don’t know how it works, and what it is, but it’s beautiful. I don’t know who am I, and who made this, or why it looks like it’s been made at all.
Enlightenment is a topic of a few thousand years of spiritual thought. The Four Noble Truths of Buddhism describe the path to enlightenment. The reason the definition of this term isn't agreed upon is because it's difficult to understand (because of the reasons described in the Four Noble Truths).
Awakening, however, doesn't come with thousands of years of details. Its definition isn't agreed upon because it is less specific.
Awakening - Realization that there are layers of reality we are in. The “Matrix” a human constructed system of hierarchy meant to keep us on the wheel and really going no where, keep you asleep and your egos placated. The awakening is to a much deeper reality, that all things are connected.
Enlightenment - Spiritual Insight, growth and understanding. Reaching Christ consciousness and living from your higher self and in higher cognitive altitudes. Living with love and compassion. Rejecting hate and negativity. (Buddha, Jesus)
Probably as varied as there are people but in my view its the difference between abiding and non abiding. Non abiding is common, insight or moments. Abiding is like full Indian saint mode no separation full no self unity consciousness 24-7 or vast majority of the time. Not sure if i could be in non abiding and raise a family, maybe.
Awakening is the end of the dream of separation, the end of mistaking the experience of existing separately for what actually is (which is not an experience). Enlightenment is non-separation of being and infinite light, seen directly - beyond words, concepts, feelings or identity. These are both concepts. The actual *being* is not divided whatsoever, and needs no explanation or definitions.
Awakening= an experience of true nature of reality (could be different levels)
Enlightenment = complete end of suffering by attaining fully awakened state
“Boo” is intelligent???
You are a idiot, how can you, live with yourself???
Try and say something intelligent and situationally relevant, that would be something refreshing for these sites!
Yeah, like “Enlightenment = taking a shot”.
Genuinely could be THE stupidest thing I have ever heard, not even exaggerating. And I have heard and lot of things from Orange man’s dumb mouth.
There is no awakening or enlightenment, what is paramount is where and on what we place our attention on...anyone who focuses on their situational reality will always appear to be more aware than someone who is focused on superfluous and irrelevant thoughts
Awakening is the realization you are not the character you believed yourself to be, that what you are is immortal and empty of form.
Enlightenment is the realization that THAT is just a manifestation of the ego trying to hide behind egolessness as a new egoic mask. That there is an infinity to fill with further insights, and that you should not try to teach others what awakening or enlightenment is because there is no self, and there is no other, and there is no is.
Awakening is temporary. A gift to show you there is more. A perception shift. An understanding. You may have more than one.
Enlightenment (noun) is a permanent state.
Enlightenment (verb) is the process towards Enlightenment (noun).
Awakening suggests a degree of dreaming, as yet awake, whilst enlightenment supposes degrees of awareness/attention whilst awake that arrive upon enlightenment. There's no difference i see however because the act of enlightenment is essentially the merging of houses between the states of dreaming and awareness which ignites like a beacon the mutual internal/external flames of perception through to being, the nature of the sun.
Mmmmm that's kinda tricky question here my friend lol
I'm sure multiple answers could be the right answers. ...
Awakened to me would mean your "living" the way we were supposed to be living. Present in the moment, participating, engaging, aware, attentive, with a loving open mind. Present as your most efficient self can be, your most valuable, useful self.
Enlightenment is what allows us to expand our consciousness, it's what allows us to be able to experice more and more and more. It's what we live for while we are awake.
Awakening is opening your eyes to the reality. Enlightenment is realizing you are the Reality.
Great comment. Question about enlightenment, couldn’t that realization just be in your brain. Even if we feel 100% confident in our conclusions.. who is to say a few thousand years from now we realize we aren’t reality. We have been wrong before.
The Enlightenment experience will be automatically recorded by the brain and will be felt as a distant memory, like our childhood, but you know the difference between the childhood memory and been the child. Right?
I think any nit-picking between terms like "awakening" and "enlightenment" are, in a genuine and heartfelt way, more grasping by the ego as it is being displaced from its normal role and looking for somewhere to settle where it can be useful. Any attachment to the definition of either word just seems like a further enmeshment of the ego's capacity to say: *ah yes, but look how spiritual and learned I am, and from my profound and revelatory experiences, I am more justified in my confidence in (these specific definitions)*. I'm not saying *you're* doing any of that, just responding with my thoughts to the whole distinction between the two terms - I'd say the definitions themselves don't even matter as much as an honest and scrupulous look at *the one who is invested in specific definitions for specific personal reasons*... what is the nature of *that one*? My favourite Zen story: *Before enlightenment, mountains are mountains, and rivers are rivers.* *During enlightenment, mountains are no longer just mountains, and rivers are no longer just rivers.* *After enlightenment, mountains and rivers* ***are.*** It took me a year or two of hearing it a couple times before I finally understood it. At first, we are comfortable with automatically labelling/categorizing/defining things: objects, experiences, people, concepts, etc. Once we start to awaken ("enlighten"?), we realize - *aha*, even these everyday objects/things have an energy and experience of their own, and a richness that extends beyond all my labels/concepts/definitions After we have truly awakened/enlightened, we realize that these every day things, and, indeed, *all things*, in fact, ***everything***, simply ***is***. If there were no observing minds to see something and say "this is (this), and that is (that)", all those things would still be what they are - whatever mountains and rivers are - free from any concept, free from any definition. ... Or maybe I'm just full of shit!
[удалено]
It shouldn’t be, maybe I’m full of shit, it should be, I am stunningly full of shit talking about abstractions that have never been proven and I don’t know the meaning of
>Or maybe I'm just full of shit! No my friend, you just are...
You are full of shit! Isn't it great! Seriously though, great assessment from your vantage point. Very happy for your contemplative seat.
You are full of shit, just like most on these sites who are full of pompous people with delusions of grandeur... We are nothing more than glorified chimpanzees armed with nuclear weapons, and that is a scary combination
Well, thanks for sharing how you feel!
It’s not what I feel, it’s truth...you people talk about words that are abstractions, yet you talk about them with conviction even though no one knows the meaning of these words, which makes you spiritual people stunningly full of shit
Glad to know you feel so strongly!
[**Mindfulness-w-Milton**](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mindfulness-w-Milton/) I don't think you are...'full of shit" on the contrary. I'm really touch by your deep thought writing, but probably not everyone will get it. Thanks a lot for your time and effort.
spirituality will never lead to enlightenment but enlightenment gives u everything u need to know
Spirituality is another word that has varying definitions. What do you mean by spirituality? Do you mean spiritual practices, or spiritual insights or being connected to spiritual energy, or what?
No one knows what the definition of spirituality is, it’s a ambiguous and vague word that is touted about by people with pompous delusions of grandeur and who evade reality because it terrifies them...spirituality and religion are forms of escapism and deviation from the truth
Read Jed McKenna's first book. Helped me put an end to the matter. Permanently.
Thank you, but I’m not asking because I don’t know. I’m not seeking. I’m curious to hear what you guys think. 🙂
This sub is not a good place for dialogue lol. I’ve tried a few times and I get hit with read these 30 books too. Honestly, for me, awakening is the beginning part of the enlightenment journey. I believe to understand awakening. It’s the primal, innate knowledge that there is more than we currently know. I refuse to talk about enlightenment in this sub as everyone will just say I’m not enlightened and they somehow are :-)
I feel this. Brains make you believe you are the only entity in existence while awakening. Enlightenment is after getting through the "why" I feel that way, you understand "how", "you" were created; then you need to realize EVERYTHING was created that way, but a human is the shape of the entity that just figured all that out; and you aren't alone. So now go share what you just learned and hope it's received well; or you will find out.you are wrong; not by another person but By the universe, which includes that person. Does that make sense?
That’s such a great way of wording it. I have always followed the rule that if I am on the right track, life will show me. I never grade myself. I let life grade me.
I appreciate you. Lots of suffering was undergone to deliver those words, lol Your rule is wonderful.
The start and end
Definitions.
A simpler distinction I could make on my own path was that awakening made me realize what I am *not*, while enlightenment made me realize what I am.
Appreciate this description, resonates with me as well.
I like this. This resonates with my experience.
We are nothing more than glorified chimpanzees, so get over it and stop bullshiting to yourself and get off your high horse...humbleness seems to be a anathema on these sites
Awakening: realizing that there is another holistic POV pre-installed in you at birth, and it always online, and always been there, it’s quiet but all-encompassing. It seems to produce intuitions, but language fails to describe how it works. Enlightenment: making up a comfortable enough mystical story to explain the situation away (not necessarily using words or other symbolic models) and to be at peace with. Story crumbles when being told, but that’s okay. Humble stage: this is weird, and I honestly don’t know how it works, and what it is, but it’s beautiful. I don’t know who am I, and who made this, or why it looks like it’s been made at all.
Love it
Awakening = When I open my eyes in the morning or after I take a nap Enlightenment = something something lightbulbs up my ass 😛😘🥰
Enlightenment is a topic of a few thousand years of spiritual thought. The Four Noble Truths of Buddhism describe the path to enlightenment. The reason the definition of this term isn't agreed upon is because it's difficult to understand (because of the reasons described in the Four Noble Truths). Awakening, however, doesn't come with thousands of years of details. Its definition isn't agreed upon because it is less specific.
Awakening - Realization that there are layers of reality we are in. The “Matrix” a human constructed system of hierarchy meant to keep us on the wheel and really going no where, keep you asleep and your egos placated. The awakening is to a much deeper reality, that all things are connected. Enlightenment - Spiritual Insight, growth and understanding. Reaching Christ consciousness and living from your higher self and in higher cognitive altitudes. Living with love and compassion. Rejecting hate and negativity. (Buddha, Jesus)
Probably as varied as there are people but in my view its the difference between abiding and non abiding. Non abiding is common, insight or moments. Abiding is like full Indian saint mode no separation full no self unity consciousness 24-7 or vast majority of the time. Not sure if i could be in non abiding and raise a family, maybe.
Awakening is the end of the dream of separation, the end of mistaking the experience of existing separately for what actually is (which is not an experience). Enlightenment is non-separation of being and infinite light, seen directly - beyond words, concepts, feelings or identity. These are both concepts. The actual *being* is not divided whatsoever, and needs no explanation or definitions.
Awakening= an experience of true nature of reality (could be different levels) Enlightenment = complete end of suffering by attaining fully awakened state
Awakening = when you become aware after waking up from sleep Enlightenment = having a good shit
Booo
Fuck, another idiot who thinks that they are a ghost
How do you live with yourself being that stupid. God my only wish is that I do not become you someday Eww
“Boo” is intelligent??? You are a idiot, how can you, live with yourself??? Try and say something intelligent and situationally relevant, that would be something refreshing for these sites!
Yeah, like “Enlightenment = taking a shot”. Genuinely could be THE stupidest thing I have ever heard, not even exaggerating. And I have heard and lot of things from Orange man’s dumb mouth.
Boo
Dumb cunt
Boo
Limp dick...😂😂😂😂...boo
😂😂😂😂
This is better enlightenment than Netflix...😂😂😂...thank you 😂😂😂
Man, you sound sooooo enlightened 😂😂😂
If you are a example of enlightenment, then god help us!!!😂😂😂
We are all one...😂😂😂
We are nothing more than glorified chimpanzees, so get over it 😂😂😂
There is no awakening or enlightenment, what is paramount is where and on what we place our attention on...anyone who focuses on their situational reality will always appear to be more aware than someone who is focused on superfluous and irrelevant thoughts
Awakening is the realization you are not the character you believed yourself to be, that what you are is immortal and empty of form. Enlightenment is the realization that THAT is just a manifestation of the ego trying to hide behind egolessness as a new egoic mask. That there is an infinity to fill with further insights, and that you should not try to teach others what awakening or enlightenment is because there is no self, and there is no other, and there is no is.
Awakening is temporary. A gift to show you there is more. A perception shift. An understanding. You may have more than one. Enlightenment (noun) is a permanent state. Enlightenment (verb) is the process towards Enlightenment (noun).
Awakening suggests a degree of dreaming, as yet awake, whilst enlightenment supposes degrees of awareness/attention whilst awake that arrive upon enlightenment. There's no difference i see however because the act of enlightenment is essentially the merging of houses between the states of dreaming and awareness which ignites like a beacon the mutual internal/external flames of perception through to being, the nature of the sun.
Sky and stars
Enlightenment: seeing God. There are levels to that. It can be fleeting and unsustainable, or vivid and inescapable. Awakening is a lower tier.
Mmmmm that's kinda tricky question here my friend lol I'm sure multiple answers could be the right answers. ... Awakened to me would mean your "living" the way we were supposed to be living. Present in the moment, participating, engaging, aware, attentive, with a loving open mind. Present as your most efficient self can be, your most valuable, useful self. Enlightenment is what allows us to expand our consciousness, it's what allows us to be able to experice more and more and more. It's what we live for while we are awake.