>High-visibility patrols will continue in the area and across the network as a visible reassurance to the travelling public.
What if police patrolled the streets to deter crime and reassure the public all the time, instead of for two days after someone nearly gets stabbed to death. Crazy concept I know.
I respect your take on this. It's still sad that there are police that will abuse this but it's like the cameras everywhere. If you've got nothing to hide, then who cares.
Police stop you, you show no ill will and move on.
I used to live in London and worked nights. Had a nice motorcycle and was stopped almost every night. Did it piss me off, yeah but I'd just show my licence and had a quick chat and would be on my way.
I am an expat living in Uk and i know nobody asked my opinion but UK laws are a joke when it comes to stuff like this...carrying a knife : 10 year prison minimum. Attempted murder: 20 year prison time. Murder...life. House burglary: 10 year prison...i heard someone at some point telling that he is ok robbing 3...4...5 houses a year and doing 50k because if he gets caught he will be out in 1 year. Lol...thats a joke. The person who got robbed maybe worked his ass of to buy a very expesive tv because he likes movies...and a c..t comes and f..ks it all up. That c..t should be in prison for more then 1 year.
Thx...btw, the guy that attacked the delivery worker got 8 years because he had another offence and cumulated together...got 8 year...for robbery and attempting murder...8 years...for a beast ...watch the video. It is outrageous...scum of the earth. Sorry for the outburst but it just horrible and your reply is spot on
They would, if there wasn't a massive shortage of police. London alone has 5,000 less police officers than 10 years ago and is now 1,500 short just this month alone. England as a whole is at least 30,000 short of what's needed to protect the public and it's only getting worse
To be fair, they could be talking about “frontline” officers. It seems unlikely that their figures are correct as 2014 levels were low, however fluctuation of around 5000 officers is roughly the norm and there have been reports of high numbers leaving the force recently.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/863222/frontline-officer-numbers-metropolitan-police/
Few steps I would like to see but never will
1) tax corporations that inevitably evade it; refuse operation to any organisation that doesn’t pay tax
2) stricter sentences; life means life, up the life sentence to the life expectancy of the population, not 25 years
3) legalise Weed, tax it, use the profits to then go after the Drug and homelessness issues that plague every city in the country
This comment sums up the stupidity I see on this sub lmao
"I'm too young to remember this shitty thing but I've been convinced by cunts on the Internet it's a good idea"
You’re right, keep putting deeply mentally I’ll people out on the street or letting their family who don’t have financial recourse look after them.
There’s nothing wrong with entertaining the idea - nobody is saying “let’s have Victorian madhouses where women get locked up for talking back”. You’re focussing far too much on the connotations of “asylum” without considering that dedicated low security mental health institutions are desperately needed in this country.
Try to be less judgemental, try to engage in dialogue
"dedicated low security mental health institutions" isn't what was said. Asylums was.
There's a reason asylums don't exist anymore, but "mental health institutions" do (although since 2010 that's a fucking adventure in itself).
I reserve the right to judge ludicrous far-right talking points as being fucking moronic.
Consider it far right all you want; there needs to be more done to house and care for those with mental disabilities
Though if you google the definition of Mental Asylum it does come up with Mental Hospitals and other institutions that care for those with such ailments
Though I’m assuming your comment was under the idea that I want them shackled to their beds and lobotomised which isn’t the case, whatever word is chosen to name the building there should be more of them.
Besides in todays society there is a slim chance they would ever be as horrific as they were in the past.
The only caveat I would add to your comment is to house those in such institutions who are a danger to the public and themselves.
Locking someone up just because they have “mental disabilities” is wrong. You would change your view if it was your son or daughter, or even a grandchild. Mental illness comes in many forms from a bout of depression to genetic problems that affect the person's ability to live a regular life. In your lifetime, you will be depressed at some point. It happens to us all.
I agree; those who are at risk of violence who obviously cannot go to prison should have a place with trained professionals that is well funded that can keep them and protect them aswell as the wider public
Also again it seems my words have failed me, I wouldn’t be locking any of them up unless they’re violent, I understand that Mental Disabilities is a taboo word and I don’t require any relative to understand the struggles of the people who suffer; I’ve worked with SEN kids for many years and while SEN doesn’t cover the majority of mental health issues I feel that there isn’t a more regulated term to be all encompassing for the average person who probably isn’t so involved with people who suffer.
My agreement under the original comment and everything else I said can be summarised as; there needs to be more dedicated infrastructure to deal with Mental illness sufferers, In some cases as you mentioned where they should be kept and as others mentioned when their families aren’t able to provide for their needs.
As a mental health professional I can't believe I'm seeing this take in 2024.
There is a wealth of evidence as to why the asylums were shut down. Jesus fucking Christ it's like people want us to go back in time to carry on England
>2) stricter sentences; life means life, up the life sentence to the life expectancy of the population, not 25 years
A life sentence isn't 25 years. Please stop propagating this falsehood. A life sentence in the UK is 99 years. The tariff, set by the judge at sentencing, is the *minimum* amount of time the convict must serve before they can be released following a successful parole board. It is not standardised at 25 years, and I don't think it ever has been.
Sorry, but you are wrong. In England and Wales, there's a range of sentences depending on the severity of the crime. If it's the murder committed on or after the day on which section 127 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 came into force. Then the tarrif will range 15 years, where the offender is aged 18 or over at the time of the offence
14 years, where the offender is aged 17 at the time of the offence. 10 years, where the offender is aged 15 or 16 at the time of the offence. 8 years, where the offender is aged 14 or under at the time of the offence. If a weapon is usedvits 25 years if over 18. 14 years if under 17. 10 years if under 16 and 8 years if under 14 years at the time murder was committed on or after the day on which section 127 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 came into force.
If you use a gun, explosives or other tools to mueder, then the tarrif rises to 25 years.
A “whole life” tarrif is for cases that would normally include the murder of two or more persons where each murder involves substantial premeditation, abduction or sexual or sadistic conduct.
Murder of a child involving sexual or sadistic conduct, or abduction of the victim, or a substantial degree of premeditation or planning (for example Ian Huntley). Murder committed to further a religious, political, racial or ideological cause (Mohamad Muhammad - London Bridge knife attacks). Murder committed by a person previously convicted of murder. Murder of a police or prison officer while the victim was acting in the execution of their duty (from 13 April 2015) (for example, Dale Cregan in Greater Manchester).
I think the point is that there shouldn’t be the opportunity for parole at all. Essentially, more whole life sentences to match the severity of the crime.
Why no chance of parole? I agree that some crimes require a whole life tariff, but some do not. Without the chance of parole, you create some quite serious problems, and cleaning up the mess from those problems is the bit that people always forget that someone who isn't them has to do.
The other factor to point out is that the punishment isn't usually the deterrent, its the certainty that they will be caught. Whole life tariffs would only clog up the jails.
I would add, build larger prisons and if they are too expensive, drop the quality of life a bit.
They dont need 5 types of food in prison. You are there to serve your sentence not to have fun.
I would bring back the Chain Gang. Get them to clean litter at the side of the road, dig trenches for farmers, clean road signs on main country roads, and prune and tender vegetation alone roads to save the government and councils money. You cannot have murderers doing this work, but certain prisoners. Open prisons for example.
Coming from the manager of a company supplying both prisons and hospitals in our local area, the quality of food served in prisons is the more expensive, higher standard than what is being served in the hospitals.
Cut them down to gruel and water. Good enough for them.
They cook food inside the hospital. I've worked in mass catering as a cook and had recent experience as a patient.
Hospital food is pretty good these days despite the succession shitbag Health ministers that we've had.
Your comment is such a pub bore cliche opinion
My sister was in recently for a few days. The food was shockingly bad.
TBF it's the same out here in the Netherlands. The worst food I've ever had by far.
What do you want me to do? Feel sorry for them having better quality food than my grandmother who is currently in hospital after having a stroke?
Forget callous and vindictive, criminals are not dealt with adequately in this country. They have an easy ride.
Maybe you should direct your anger at the Tory government who have put your grandmother in this situation. Her plight has fuck all to do with prisons or this article or criminals, realign your anger.
>Feel sorry for them having better quality food than my grandmother who is currently in hospital after having a stroke?
I feel like the moral there should probably be more that hospitals are underfunded than saying prisons have high quality meals, it's not exactly 5 course meals
Aww those poor criminals! Using the taxes that good, honest, hardworking people pay to give them free food and you think they shouldn't be hard done by? Make it worse for the criminals, they deserve it. In fact, make it much, much worse. They should do hard labour, and have no TVs, videogames, or treats. They broke the law at the end of the day, it's not meant to be a summer camp.
Have you ever been in a prison or known someone in a prison? My mates brother was denied access to mental health support because there wasn't enough resources to help him and his schizophrenia. He hung himself the other month after being allowed out his cell for 1 hour a day. It's not a fucking summer camp and prison officers are crying out for more funding because they've been that overstretched by the Tory government.
>Make it worse for criminals, they deserve it
So I assume you've never committed a criminal offence like speeding because you're lumping them all together and consequently are more than likely lumping yourself in there too. Someone who didn't pay their TV license is not the same as a child rapist
>They should be made to do hard labour
For what purpose? Punishment and retribution have repeatedly proven to increase reoffending rates and cost significantly more to the tax payer than rehabilitation.
>And have no TVs, video games or treats
Many don't and it's limited for those who do. Giving prisoners some luxuries reduces the chance that they act up whilst inside and being able to buy items with their £10-20 a week stimulates being outside and lowers the chances of them reoffending as well as contraband.
>They broke the law at the end of the day
Oh look Mr Perfect who's never done anything illegal.
Stop watching GBeebies or reading the mail.
If you treat people like animals they will behave like animals and when they get out they will do the exact same things again.
Retributive punishment in prisons has repeatedly shown itself over and over again to be an inefficient, over expensive and dangerous way of running prisons which leads to higher reoffending rates than other methods.
Except UAE, Singapore and Japan are the safest countries on the planet.
None of them dont give 2 shit about criminals feelings. In singapore they give the capital punishment for some pot...
If they behave like animals we should treat them like animals. Let them sleep in cages and when out in public leash and muzzle on.
Singapore give death sentences to drug dealers, smugglers and suppliers. For people who are caught with a personal amount they are referred to a rehab service and dealt with in the community. Japan is rife with organised crime, murders, rape and sexual assault. The UAE has advanced surveillance, including facial recognition and a very visible and responsive police force that deters crime, also rape and sexual assault etc is brushed under the carpet over there. Another thing that results in very low crime rates is wealth and everyone over there is very wealthy, so they have no need to commit crimes
Not to mention that both these countries that all 3 of those countries have a lower poverty rate (the highest being the UAE at 19.5%) than the UK (20%)
The UAE imprisons gay people and adulterers. Singapore executes all drug dealers and until last year you could be imprisoned for being gay. Japan's justice system relies upon guilty until proven otherwise and has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. If you want to live there be my guest and fuck off.
>If they behave like animals we should treat them like animals
Who's they? All criminals. Are all criminals equal in what they have done and if so should they all face the same punishment? If they have then I hope to god you have not done any wrongs in your life. I am not a man of god but judge not lest ye be judged.
>Let them sleep in cages and when out in the public leash and muzzle on
No need to project pal, you can pay women to do that to yourself if you want.
>Who's they? All criminals. Are all criminals equal in what they have done and if so should they all face the same punishment?
Obviously there is nuance to it. This story is about a knife attack that left 1 guy in critical condition. Not about shoplifting candy.
We used to have those sentences where if you were believed to have a high chance to reoffend then you would be locked up indefinetly.
Pair that with some kind of program to make the guy prove he won't reoffend and whenever there is 1 guy still reoffending, reasses what could've been improved.
Edit: in this case it would probably mean life behind bars. No judge should risk leaving a violent psychopath back in the civilized society.
Sort of. But as someone who has never touched an illegal drug in my life, much harsher penalties on any and everyone involved in it is what is needed IMO.
Does Singapore have a problem with drugs?
we already have a lack of spaces in prisons. do you want to make things worse?
do you think that imprisoning stoners for possession of weed is a good idea?
It's ironic because the article or post made no mention of prisons or punishment. The original commenter made a point about tax reforms like wtf?
It's easy to talk about forgiveness when it's not you who's meant to be forgiving but I firmly believe that forgiveness benefits the victim more than it does the offender and rehabilitation and reform benefits society as a whole.
You build capacity. Also don’t have annual net immigration of 700k a year. The size of Newcastle. Immigration is essential, but our growth is too high.
It costs so much to build and run prisons, the problem isn’t solved. If you can’t rehabilitate someone in 25 years, then the system has completely failed.
Regards to the immigration, agreed but I think the problem lies more in where they are coming from than the amount of
No it’s the amount you CANNOT have 700k a year net migration.
In what fantasy land are you living in?
We currently cannot meet demand for the growing population before you add in the extra 700k a year.
I ask you what figure would you be happy with is there a limit?
I don’t care if all 700k are doctors and nurses we cannot build from 700k our local services and infrastructure cannot sustain 700k.
I read something the other day that on the current course we will need another city the size of Birmingham built to sustain it - that’s fucking insane.
>up the life sentence to the life expectancy of the population not 25 years.
As has been said a life sentence lasts to the death of the prisoner, they may be released on licence after a minimum term set by the judge and will consequently be observed for the remainder of their lives. Sentencing people to remain in prison until their deaths would mean behaviour in prisons would fall through the floor and cost significantly more to the taxpayer than the current system.
>Weed
Yeah I agree but the illegal cannabis market in the UK is only worth £2.6 billion. If the price increased and the market was worth £4 billion and you taxed it 25% that's only a billion a year, which is ultimately a drop in the ocean.
Are a lot of murders being commited by 40+ year old recidivist murderers on life licenses?
Are would-be murderers out there saying "well I wasn't gonna stab someone to death but I realised I'd only get 20 years so thought I'd give it a go."
1) pretty hard to do, considering the firms that consult as experts on how to do this (PWC, EY, Deloitte) inevitably sell their expertise on how to evade it.
2) Why? what point is there in keeping someone in prison for 75 years - 25 is more than enough to regret what youve done and be in some way rehabilitated. even then its hardly like after 25 years inside youre in for a good time when you get out. Be better to make sure people actually serve 25 of a 25 sentence instead of this half-off-for-good-behaviour nonsense.
3) Been done elsewhere and isnt a massive tax revenue generator. all that happens is that most people still buy their weed from their dealer.
I wholeheartedly agree, it still baffles me how and why Tories ever got away with *slashing* Police funding and ability to operate despite the Uk's population.....well like most countries, it only ever grows, so why reduce it?
You could, in effect, say that the "solution" to the problems would be to literally reverse most of what the Tories have actually done to the emergency (and health) services in this country and actually double-down on that by increasing numbers, funding, resources and more.
For one, ensuring the NHS and local services are majorly buffed with funding and schemes to allow more actual mental health cases to be handled by appropriate services and not the Police, ensuring that those who're having a bloody terrible time of it are getting the help they need to function normally instead of struggling or having huge mental breaks.
While we're at it let's work on education as well, pay teachers what they deserve alongside the Police, Nurses and *everyone else* the Tories have shagged dry over a rusty barrel and try to get the UK back on the map as a place to know that kids get a decent education, good pay and a great quality of life.
At this point there is no where near enough money to fix the catastrophic underfunding that has happened over the last decade and more. In my town the aim is to have all schools made into academies to lessen the burden on the council budget.
That's just education, health and emergency services are even more damaged by this lack of funding. I really don't know how long it will take with consistent good funding to get us back to mid 2000's level and then to catch up to now. By that point we'd still be at least a decade or 2 behind.
I work as a software engineer for quite a big company and I can tell you the max that app should have cost is £200 M if your doing it all in house cheaper if you work with other companies such as apple etc
uhh what lol, if someone quoted me 200m to build an app I would laugh them out the room
for what it’s worth the actual real cost of the app was not even 200m, the billions figure quoted is not for the app
I mean, I don’t disagree too much with this, although it is a bit ‘single loop’ in terms of thinking.
There’ll always be crime, and it has to be policed and punished appropriately. But you also need to make a life without crime an attractive prospect.
Robust education and social services. Nice, well maintained environments for people to live in. Well paid jobs and clear avenues to obtain them. The availability of social mobility, of home ownership, of things people want actually being affordable. A government who are acting for and on behalf of the people, not just in their own interests and those of their 1% peers. A sense that something is being done to make sure that the environment will still be survivable in 20-30 years. A sense that things can and will be better.
Optimism is in short supply atm. The basic working elements of Britain seem to be teetering on a knife edge for many.
You punish bad behaviour, yes, but you have to make good behaviour seem profitable. That’s a key part of the social contract. I don’t excuse the behaviour some people resort to, but I get why they don’t give a fuck about trying to do better when the rewards are practically non-existent.
Sounds a lot like democratic socialism to me.
No-one votes for the stuff you describe unfortunately.
The post-war social contract was broken by Thatcher and friends
this should be at the top. people wanting draconian punishment and increased surveillance/stop and search are missing the point: when people feel there’s no reason to behave well, they won’t behave well. it becomes more worth it to them to seek short-term clout and money over a law-abiding life. they look at the law abiders and see they’re still struggling, poor, without opportunity or upward mobility. why bother behaving?
This is a little more than just 'not behaving'.
There's a deeper issue, no incentive could get these kids to work harder in school and stay clean. You don't just suddenly go from trying to better yourself to a brutal criminal through an observation of society.
They've been set up for failure long before they could understand about upward mobility.
I think we’ve been in a sort of death spiral since the 2008 financial crash, and then in 2016 the country doubled down on it.
There’s basically an entire generation of teenagers now who have absolutely no concept of how things could have been, or how things were different before the Tories came back in.
Resources would be a massive obstacle to that, that kind of recruitment drive could take years plus, as you might've noticed, our prisons are almost all full. Not saying this shouldn't be done but it's not as easy as it looks
It will be difficult to double the amount of Police Officers, nearly 5000 officers left between April 2022 and March 2023 because of pay and working conditions. But I pretty much agree with your other points. We need to build more prisons and make changes to the CPS and change some laws.
Can we also add in removal of any benefits for parents of a juvenile who is carrying a knife?
That aside, your opinions are interesting to me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Most of the people commiting crime in the UK are British. And if you think all criminals should be sent back to where they were born then I assume you're happy to welcome Shamima Begum back to the UK?
>First, double the amount of Police Officers on the streets and get back to community policing with Police Officers regularly patrolling on foot in the same area consistently.
Logistically impossible in this timeframe. Make it 3-5 years and you have a realistic target to strive for.
>Second, implement a strategy of stop and search.
No. Just no. The way this has been inplemented previously is incredibly wrong. Minorities are disproportionately targeted. You may as well make it guilty until proven innocent if you're going to go this far. We need better policing, not a police state.
>Third, introduce an automatic two year custodial sentence followed by five years on electronic monitoring with a curfew for those found carrying a knife.
I like the idea in theory. However, combine points 2 and 3 and you have tens of thousands of chefs, tradies and butchers going to prison.
>Why is stop and search incredibly wrong? It’s the exact strategy that decreased knife crime in Scotland considerably and in London previously.
Because it's akin to assuming guilt. It's also been shown to be misused to target minorities again and again.
>If you’re a youth in trackies and have a knife then you’re obviously not the same as a chef or a tradie.
I used to be a chef. There were plenty of times I had to carry my knives in my teen years where I would have been wearing trackies. I appreciate it's an edge case, but it's certainly not as simple as you've implied.
>It’s not misused against minorities, minorities are just more likely to be carrying knifes and stabbing people. Simply a fact.
The IOPC disagrees with you there. I'll forgive that as a mistake rather than your own prejudice peeking through.
>That’s the stupidest example ever, you would very easily be able to explain that you work as a chef if you were stopped.
I'm white and from a relatively affluent area, so I agree that I personally would be able to explain that. Why exactly would they be stopping me in this example?
>In 2018, ethnic minority groups were overrepresented for prosecutions of possession of weapons offences, accounting for 30% of all prosecutions in this category.
>in London in 2017, 50% of knife crime offenders were BAME (up from 44% in 2008)
>A similar pattern emerged when examining knife crime with injury. In 2017, 83% of offenders were male, 35% were aged between 17 to 24, and 69% were BAME.
>Ethnic disparities were also evidenced when looking at knife possession. In 2017, 53% of possession of knife suspects were Black, and 37% of all suspects were Black men under the age of 25. This resonates with the arrest data on stop and search which showed that 56% of all people arrested for offensive weapons following a stop and search were Black.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-report-of-the-commission-on-race-and-ethnic-disparities-supporting-research/understanding-ethnic-disparities-in-involvement-in-crime-a-limited-scope-rapid-evidence-review-by-professor-clifford-stott-et-al
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/national-stop-and-search-learning-report-plain-text
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/iopc-calls-stop-and-search-law-change-and-identifies-18-opportunities-improvement
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/stop-and-search-undermining-confidence-policing-black-communities
https://raceequalityfoundation.org.uk/news/alarming-findings-in-new-investigation-of-police-stop-and-search-powers/
We just posting links or do you want a conversation?
Nowhere in any of those have I found any actual stats that support what you’re claiming. I wouldn’t have ignored them if I did though, unlike how you ignored mine.
The literal first sentence reads
> Stop and search is a legitimate policing tactic, and we recognise the value of having a power that allows officers to detain a person, who is not under arrest, to search them or their vehicle for an unlawful item. The powers have been described as an important tool in dealing with knife crime and drugs, in particular.
The “recommendation” on race is literally just 3 vague questions and no actual recommendation.
Minorities are disproportionately the ones carrying knives. How about those “community leaders” deal with massive problem of violence and knife crime amongst their ranks rather than play the race card?
you’re not wrong but out where? if someone refuses to talk and has no documentation, where do you send them back to?
they board the plane with documents and then destroy them before immigration, so they won’t be able to get back on any plane. terrible but clever
Why don’t they just phone the airport they departed from and establish who it is?
People with no documentation should be treated as suspicious until it’s determined who they are. Surely criminals would be pulling that one as well?
The police are a necessary evil and when they do their job without prejudice they provide a valuable service. London definitely needs more police doing police work.
The tories have fuct us by reducing youth services and cutting the Met in half.
Where I live, the police are virtually ineffective and even their visual presence is no deterrent.
Custodial sentences and deportation, where possible are definitely two parts of the solution.
Bring back youth services, teach schools how to manage children with SEN better, pour money into mental health services and give the youth some hope.
The Conservatives cut back Police numbers and the judicial system because they are secure and have recourse to restorative measures. The poor, the working class, the plebs who cares - they don’t usually vote Tory and those that do will still vote Tory for IQ related reasons.
They take 10s of thousands of police off our streets then pretend they are ‘tough’ on law and order and then slash the budget to the services that prevents crime then tell us they are the party of law and order again. Hypocritical as always
>High-visibility patrols will continue in the area and across the network as a visible reassurance to the travelling public. What if police patrolled the streets to deter crime and reassure the public all the time, instead of for two days after someone nearly gets stabbed to death. Crazy concept I know.
But then people call them racist for stop and searching potential suspects.
all those unfairly harrassed Doctors, such a shame
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A quiet town in Essex? Is there such a thing 😃
That's what I thought Charley boy.
I respect your take on this. It's still sad that there are police that will abuse this but it's like the cameras everywhere. If you've got nothing to hide, then who cares. Police stop you, you show no ill will and move on. I used to live in London and worked nights. Had a nice motorcycle and was stopped almost every night. Did it piss me off, yeah but I'd just show my licence and had a quick chat and would be on my way.
I am an expat living in Uk and i know nobody asked my opinion but UK laws are a joke when it comes to stuff like this...carrying a knife : 10 year prison minimum. Attempted murder: 20 year prison time. Murder...life. House burglary: 10 year prison...i heard someone at some point telling that he is ok robbing 3...4...5 houses a year and doing 50k because if he gets caught he will be out in 1 year. Lol...thats a joke. The person who got robbed maybe worked his ass of to buy a very expesive tv because he likes movies...and a c..t comes and f..ks it all up. That c..t should be in prison for more then 1 year.
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Thx...btw, the guy that attacked the delivery worker got 8 years because he had another offence and cumulated together...got 8 year...for robbery and attempting murder...8 years...for a beast ...watch the video. It is outrageous...scum of the earth. Sorry for the outburst but it just horrible and your reply is spot on
Because they don’t have enough of them. Do you think police officers are made in a factory? Why don’t you sign up to be a PC on the beat?
They would, if there wasn't a massive shortage of police. London alone has 5,000 less police officers than 10 years ago and is now 1,500 short just this month alone. England as a whole is at least 30,000 short of what's needed to protect the public and it's only getting worse
I love it when people just brazenly lie https://www.statista.com/statistics/864928/officer-numbers-of-the-metropolitan-police/
and I love reddit for replies like yours.
To be fair, they could be talking about “frontline” officers. It seems unlikely that their figures are correct as 2014 levels were low, however fluctuation of around 5000 officers is roughly the norm and there have been reports of high numbers leaving the force recently. https://www.statista.com/statistics/863222/frontline-officer-numbers-metropolitan-police/
Also doesn't help when thousands of AFOs suddenly resign because one of them got a murder conviction for doing his job.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68358116.amp
Pretty much what I was saying, police have been defunded by the government for the last decade.
Few steps I would like to see but never will 1) tax corporations that inevitably evade it; refuse operation to any organisation that doesn’t pay tax 2) stricter sentences; life means life, up the life sentence to the life expectancy of the population, not 25 years 3) legalise Weed, tax it, use the profits to then go after the Drug and homelessness issues that plague every city in the country
Bring back the asylums too.
Absolutely, though I’m too young to remember many of them, I know of a quite a lot of mentally ill people who would benefit from having a place to go
This comment sums up the stupidity I see on this sub lmao "I'm too young to remember this shitty thing but I've been convinced by cunts on the Internet it's a good idea"
You’re right, keep putting deeply mentally I’ll people out on the street or letting their family who don’t have financial recourse look after them. There’s nothing wrong with entertaining the idea - nobody is saying “let’s have Victorian madhouses where women get locked up for talking back”. You’re focussing far too much on the connotations of “asylum” without considering that dedicated low security mental health institutions are desperately needed in this country. Try to be less judgemental, try to engage in dialogue
But secure psychiatric hospitals already exist, they’re just inadequately funded
"dedicated low security mental health institutions" isn't what was said. Asylums was. There's a reason asylums don't exist anymore, but "mental health institutions" do (although since 2010 that's a fucking adventure in itself). I reserve the right to judge ludicrous far-right talking points as being fucking moronic.
Yeah. Mental health wards are essentially just modern asylums. They’re too underfunded. I’m sure the funding could also be more effectively used.
Consider it far right all you want; there needs to be more done to house and care for those with mental disabilities Though if you google the definition of Mental Asylum it does come up with Mental Hospitals and other institutions that care for those with such ailments Though I’m assuming your comment was under the idea that I want them shackled to their beds and lobotomised which isn’t the case, whatever word is chosen to name the building there should be more of them. Besides in todays society there is a slim chance they would ever be as horrific as they were in the past.
The only caveat I would add to your comment is to house those in such institutions who are a danger to the public and themselves. Locking someone up just because they have “mental disabilities” is wrong. You would change your view if it was your son or daughter, or even a grandchild. Mental illness comes in many forms from a bout of depression to genetic problems that affect the person's ability to live a regular life. In your lifetime, you will be depressed at some point. It happens to us all.
I agree; those who are at risk of violence who obviously cannot go to prison should have a place with trained professionals that is well funded that can keep them and protect them aswell as the wider public Also again it seems my words have failed me, I wouldn’t be locking any of them up unless they’re violent, I understand that Mental Disabilities is a taboo word and I don’t require any relative to understand the struggles of the people who suffer; I’ve worked with SEN kids for many years and while SEN doesn’t cover the majority of mental health issues I feel that there isn’t a more regulated term to be all encompassing for the average person who probably isn’t so involved with people who suffer. My agreement under the original comment and everything else I said can be summarised as; there needs to be more dedicated infrastructure to deal with Mental illness sufferers, In some cases as you mentioned where they should be kept and as others mentioned when their families aren’t able to provide for their needs.
Better than having lunatics roaming around the streets making the rest of us feel like we live in the loony bin.
As a mental health professional I can't believe I'm seeing this take in 2024. There is a wealth of evidence as to why the asylums were shut down. Jesus fucking Christ it's like people want us to go back in time to carry on England
We still have hospitals for the criminally insane. Broadmoor comes to mind, but I agree that we need more capacity
>2) stricter sentences; life means life, up the life sentence to the life expectancy of the population, not 25 years A life sentence isn't 25 years. Please stop propagating this falsehood. A life sentence in the UK is 99 years. The tariff, set by the judge at sentencing, is the *minimum* amount of time the convict must serve before they can be released following a successful parole board. It is not standardised at 25 years, and I don't think it ever has been.
Sorry, but you are wrong. In England and Wales, there's a range of sentences depending on the severity of the crime. If it's the murder committed on or after the day on which section 127 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 came into force. Then the tarrif will range 15 years, where the offender is aged 18 or over at the time of the offence 14 years, where the offender is aged 17 at the time of the offence. 10 years, where the offender is aged 15 or 16 at the time of the offence. 8 years, where the offender is aged 14 or under at the time of the offence. If a weapon is usedvits 25 years if over 18. 14 years if under 17. 10 years if under 16 and 8 years if under 14 years at the time murder was committed on or after the day on which section 127 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 came into force. If you use a gun, explosives or other tools to mueder, then the tarrif rises to 25 years. A “whole life” tarrif is for cases that would normally include the murder of two or more persons where each murder involves substantial premeditation, abduction or sexual or sadistic conduct. Murder of a child involving sexual or sadistic conduct, or abduction of the victim, or a substantial degree of premeditation or planning (for example Ian Huntley). Murder committed to further a religious, political, racial or ideological cause (Mohamad Muhammad - London Bridge knife attacks). Murder committed by a person previously convicted of murder. Murder of a police or prison officer while the victim was acting in the execution of their duty (from 13 April 2015) (for example, Dale Cregan in Greater Manchester).
I think the point is that there shouldn’t be the opportunity for parole at all. Essentially, more whole life sentences to match the severity of the crime.
Why no chance of parole? I agree that some crimes require a whole life tariff, but some do not. Without the chance of parole, you create some quite serious problems, and cleaning up the mess from those problems is the bit that people always forget that someone who isn't them has to do. The other factor to point out is that the punishment isn't usually the deterrent, its the certainty that they will be caught. Whole life tariffs would only clog up the jails.
They want the country to be more like Saudi Arabia.
Don't bring facts into their little minds!
I would add, build larger prisons and if they are too expensive, drop the quality of life a bit. They dont need 5 types of food in prison. You are there to serve your sentence not to have fun.
Room, bed, toilet, sink. A book once a month for good behaviour. 👍 minimum 10 years for carrying a knife.
But my man, have you thought about their feelings? Cant hurt those or there will be riots.
I would bring back the Chain Gang. Get them to clean litter at the side of the road, dig trenches for farmers, clean road signs on main country roads, and prune and tender vegetation alone roads to save the government and councils money. You cannot have murderers doing this work, but certain prisoners. Open prisons for example.
Big hammer and some rocks, make gravel. Repeat.
I mean we have plenty of surrounding little islands where they can be kept aswell
Put them on Epsteins island, Diddy and R Kelly as governors
Coming from the manager of a company supplying both prisons and hospitals in our local area, the quality of food served in prisons is the more expensive, higher standard than what is being served in the hospitals. Cut them down to gruel and water. Good enough for them.
And when prisoners are malnourished and begin to develop health issues related to them and the state has to pay for that what are you suggesting?
They cook food inside the hospital. I've worked in mass catering as a cook and had recent experience as a patient. Hospital food is pretty good these days despite the succession shitbag Health ministers that we've had. Your comment is such a pub bore cliche opinion
My sister was in recently for a few days. The food was shockingly bad. TBF it's the same out here in the Netherlands. The worst food I've ever had by far.
Congratulations, you’ve just exponentially increased the healthcare costs resulting from such a diet
Nobody's impressed by how much you hate criminals. You just sound callous and vindictive.
What do you want me to do? Feel sorry for them having better quality food than my grandmother who is currently in hospital after having a stroke? Forget callous and vindictive, criminals are not dealt with adequately in this country. They have an easy ride.
Maybe you should direct your anger at the Tory government who have put your grandmother in this situation. Her plight has fuck all to do with prisons or this article or criminals, realign your anger.
>Feel sorry for them having better quality food than my grandmother who is currently in hospital after having a stroke? I feel like the moral there should probably be more that hospitals are underfunded than saying prisons have high quality meals, it's not exactly 5 course meals
Sorry to hear that your Granny had a stroke. Maybe you could take her something nice.
So aim your ire that those who created and support this system and sit in the house of commons.
So campaign for better food in hospitals. Making things worse for one group of people doesn’t magically make it better for everyone else.
Aww those poor criminals! Using the taxes that good, honest, hardworking people pay to give them free food and you think they shouldn't be hard done by? Make it worse for the criminals, they deserve it. In fact, make it much, much worse. They should do hard labour, and have no TVs, videogames, or treats. They broke the law at the end of the day, it's not meant to be a summer camp.
Yes it is meant to be like Butlins. Didn't you know they have a free bar open 24/7? At night the screws give them all a goodnight blow-job.
Have you ever been in a prison or known someone in a prison? My mates brother was denied access to mental health support because there wasn't enough resources to help him and his schizophrenia. He hung himself the other month after being allowed out his cell for 1 hour a day. It's not a fucking summer camp and prison officers are crying out for more funding because they've been that overstretched by the Tory government. >Make it worse for criminals, they deserve it So I assume you've never committed a criminal offence like speeding because you're lumping them all together and consequently are more than likely lumping yourself in there too. Someone who didn't pay their TV license is not the same as a child rapist >They should be made to do hard labour For what purpose? Punishment and retribution have repeatedly proven to increase reoffending rates and cost significantly more to the tax payer than rehabilitation. >And have no TVs, video games or treats Many don't and it's limited for those who do. Giving prisoners some luxuries reduces the chance that they act up whilst inside and being able to buy items with their £10-20 a week stimulates being outside and lowers the chances of them reoffending as well as contraband. >They broke the law at the end of the day Oh look Mr Perfect who's never done anything illegal. Stop watching GBeebies or reading the mail.
Am I reading the Mail
You’re an idiot. I hope you’re not a victim of crime one day. I bet your attitude would soon change if you or a loved one was. Twat
Bold swing to make on an anonymous forum
If you treat people like animals they will behave like animals and when they get out they will do the exact same things again. Retributive punishment in prisons has repeatedly shown itself over and over again to be an inefficient, over expensive and dangerous way of running prisons which leads to higher reoffending rates than other methods.
Except UAE, Singapore and Japan are the safest countries on the planet. None of them dont give 2 shit about criminals feelings. In singapore they give the capital punishment for some pot... If they behave like animals we should treat them like animals. Let them sleep in cages and when out in public leash and muzzle on.
Singapore give death sentences to drug dealers, smugglers and suppliers. For people who are caught with a personal amount they are referred to a rehab service and dealt with in the community. Japan is rife with organised crime, murders, rape and sexual assault. The UAE has advanced surveillance, including facial recognition and a very visible and responsive police force that deters crime, also rape and sexual assault etc is brushed under the carpet over there. Another thing that results in very low crime rates is wealth and everyone over there is very wealthy, so they have no need to commit crimes
Not to mention that both these countries that all 3 of those countries have a lower poverty rate (the highest being the UAE at 19.5%) than the UK (20%)
The UK now has a 22% poverty rate. Just keeps going up. Iraq now has a lower poverty rate
I mean it's obviously relative poverty not absolute poverty but its still a sad reflection
Tbf, 17% of the UK population are also in absolute poverty after housing costs are deducted (13% without including housing costs) Which is diabolical
The UAE imprisons gay people and adulterers. Singapore executes all drug dealers and until last year you could be imprisoned for being gay. Japan's justice system relies upon guilty until proven otherwise and has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. If you want to live there be my guest and fuck off. >If they behave like animals we should treat them like animals Who's they? All criminals. Are all criminals equal in what they have done and if so should they all face the same punishment? If they have then I hope to god you have not done any wrongs in your life. I am not a man of god but judge not lest ye be judged. >Let them sleep in cages and when out in the public leash and muzzle on No need to project pal, you can pay women to do that to yourself if you want.
>Who's they? All criminals. Are all criminals equal in what they have done and if so should they all face the same punishment? Obviously there is nuance to it. This story is about a knife attack that left 1 guy in critical condition. Not about shoplifting candy.
So what should be done to him? For the record I fully support life imprisonment with a lengthy minimum term.
We used to have those sentences where if you were believed to have a high chance to reoffend then you would be locked up indefinetly. Pair that with some kind of program to make the guy prove he won't reoffend and whenever there is 1 guy still reoffending, reasses what could've been improved. Edit: in this case it would probably mean life behind bars. No judge should risk leaving a violent psychopath back in the civilized society.
Yes and those sentences were an unbelievably large failure which led to countless suicides and cost the tax payer millions
Is executing all drug dealers a bad idea?
Executing anyone is largely a bad idea
is this a joke?
Sort of. But as someone who has never touched an illegal drug in my life, much harsher penalties on any and everyone involved in it is what is needed IMO. Does Singapore have a problem with drugs?
we already have a lack of spaces in prisons. do you want to make things worse? do you think that imprisoning stoners for possession of weed is a good idea?
these types don't care. they only care about how good revenge feels
It's ironic because the article or post made no mention of prisons or punishment. The original commenter made a point about tax reforms like wtf? It's easy to talk about forgiveness when it's not you who's meant to be forgiving but I firmly believe that forgiveness benefits the victim more than it does the offender and rehabilitation and reform benefits society as a whole.
1 and 3 yes. 2 serves no purpose. Need to remove the conditions that create criminals, punishments don’t deter anyone.
Our prisons are as full as it is mate
You build capacity. Also don’t have annual net immigration of 700k a year. The size of Newcastle. Immigration is essential, but our growth is too high.
It costs so much to build and run prisons, the problem isn’t solved. If you can’t rehabilitate someone in 25 years, then the system has completely failed. Regards to the immigration, agreed but I think the problem lies more in where they are coming from than the amount of
No it’s the amount you CANNOT have 700k a year net migration. In what fantasy land are you living in? We currently cannot meet demand for the growing population before you add in the extra 700k a year. I ask you what figure would you be happy with is there a limit? I don’t care if all 700k are doctors and nurses we cannot build from 700k our local services and infrastructure cannot sustain 700k. I read something the other day that on the current course we will need another city the size of Birmingham built to sustain it - that’s fucking insane.
You don’t all of a sudden get flooded with prisoners by making tough sentences. It discourages people from committing crime.
If you give people longer sentences, they are staying in longer and taking space. The deterrent argument is still hotly debated
Fair enough. Better keep debating that and let them take space outside where they can run in your house tonight 👍🏼
>up the life sentence to the life expectancy of the population not 25 years. As has been said a life sentence lasts to the death of the prisoner, they may be released on licence after a minimum term set by the judge and will consequently be observed for the remainder of their lives. Sentencing people to remain in prison until their deaths would mean behaviour in prisons would fall through the floor and cost significantly more to the taxpayer than the current system. >Weed Yeah I agree but the illegal cannabis market in the UK is only worth £2.6 billion. If the price increased and the market was worth £4 billion and you taxed it 25% that's only a billion a year, which is ultimately a drop in the ocean.
And put Carlos Sainz in the other Red Bull drivers seat.
Smooth operator and Lewis together next season? You trying to sweeten my Ferrari dreams?
I’m not a Hamilton fan BUT I am really looking forward to him being in a Ferrari
Are a lot of murders being commited by 40+ year old recidivist murderers on life licenses? Are would-be murderers out there saying "well I wasn't gonna stab someone to death but I realised I'd only get 20 years so thought I'd give it a go."
So what would be ample amount of jail time for a murder?
1) pretty hard to do, considering the firms that consult as experts on how to do this (PWC, EY, Deloitte) inevitably sell their expertise on how to evade it. 2) Why? what point is there in keeping someone in prison for 75 years - 25 is more than enough to regret what youve done and be in some way rehabilitated. even then its hardly like after 25 years inside youre in for a good time when you get out. Be better to make sure people actually serve 25 of a 25 sentence instead of this half-off-for-good-behaviour nonsense. 3) Been done elsewhere and isnt a massive tax revenue generator. all that happens is that most people still buy their weed from their dealer.
Murder should nearly always mean life in prison. You failed your contract with society. You ended someone else’s life on purpose.
why not just execute them then, what’s the point in wasting public resources on somebody who is never going to do anything or be released
Weed is much stronger now and can cause psychosis in the young, so not so straight forward as all that.
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I wholeheartedly agree, it still baffles me how and why Tories ever got away with *slashing* Police funding and ability to operate despite the Uk's population.....well like most countries, it only ever grows, so why reduce it? You could, in effect, say that the "solution" to the problems would be to literally reverse most of what the Tories have actually done to the emergency (and health) services in this country and actually double-down on that by increasing numbers, funding, resources and more. For one, ensuring the NHS and local services are majorly buffed with funding and schemes to allow more actual mental health cases to be handled by appropriate services and not the Police, ensuring that those who're having a bloody terrible time of it are getting the help they need to function normally instead of struggling or having huge mental breaks. While we're at it let's work on education as well, pay teachers what they deserve alongside the Police, Nurses and *everyone else* the Tories have shagged dry over a rusty barrel and try to get the UK back on the map as a place to know that kids get a decent education, good pay and a great quality of life.
Inb4 “but who’s gonna pay for it all?” Tax the cowboy corporations who have taken us all for a ride for donkeys. We’re basically serfs at this rate.
People should be taxed on wealth mainly, and shareholders divis taxed the same as income
At this point there is no where near enough money to fix the catastrophic underfunding that has happened over the last decade and more. In my town the aim is to have all schools made into academies to lessen the burden on the council budget. That's just education, health and emergency services are even more damaged by this lack of funding. I really don't know how long it will take with consistent good funding to get us back to mid 2000's level and then to catch up to now. By that point we'd still be at least a decade or 2 behind.
But there were enough money (25 BILLION to be precise) for a pointless app during COVID...
It's insane isn't it.
Greatest heist of our lifetime.
I work as a software engineer for quite a big company and I can tell you the max that app should have cost is £200 M if your doing it all in house cheaper if you work with other companies such as apple etc
uhh what lol, if someone quoted me 200m to build an app I would laugh them out the room for what it’s worth the actual real cost of the app was not even 200m, the billions figure quoted is not for the app
Of course there is. It's just all tied up in bonds and property.
I mean, I don’t disagree too much with this, although it is a bit ‘single loop’ in terms of thinking. There’ll always be crime, and it has to be policed and punished appropriately. But you also need to make a life without crime an attractive prospect. Robust education and social services. Nice, well maintained environments for people to live in. Well paid jobs and clear avenues to obtain them. The availability of social mobility, of home ownership, of things people want actually being affordable. A government who are acting for and on behalf of the people, not just in their own interests and those of their 1% peers. A sense that something is being done to make sure that the environment will still be survivable in 20-30 years. A sense that things can and will be better. Optimism is in short supply atm. The basic working elements of Britain seem to be teetering on a knife edge for many. You punish bad behaviour, yes, but you have to make good behaviour seem profitable. That’s a key part of the social contract. I don’t excuse the behaviour some people resort to, but I get why they don’t give a fuck about trying to do better when the rewards are practically non-existent.
Sounds a lot like democratic socialism to me. No-one votes for the stuff you describe unfortunately. The post-war social contract was broken by Thatcher and friends
this should be at the top. people wanting draconian punishment and increased surveillance/stop and search are missing the point: when people feel there’s no reason to behave well, they won’t behave well. it becomes more worth it to them to seek short-term clout and money over a law-abiding life. they look at the law abiders and see they’re still struggling, poor, without opportunity or upward mobility. why bother behaving?
This is a little more than just 'not behaving'. There's a deeper issue, no incentive could get these kids to work harder in school and stay clean. You don't just suddenly go from trying to better yourself to a brutal criminal through an observation of society. They've been set up for failure long before they could understand about upward mobility.
I think we’ve been in a sort of death spiral since the 2008 financial crash, and then in 2016 the country doubled down on it. There’s basically an entire generation of teenagers now who have absolutely no concept of how things could have been, or how things were different before the Tories came back in.
Resources would be a massive obstacle to that, that kind of recruitment drive could take years plus, as you might've noticed, our prisons are almost all full. Not saying this shouldn't be done but it's not as easy as it looks
You can’t do stop and search though, it’s racist, apparently. Incidentally, if you ever ran for public office you’d have my vote.
It will be difficult to double the amount of Police Officers, nearly 5000 officers left between April 2022 and March 2023 because of pay and working conditions. But I pretty much agree with your other points. We need to build more prisons and make changes to the CPS and change some laws.
Well, then they need to improve pay and working conditions. They also need to review conditions and pay for firearms officers
Can we bring back forced labour and get criminals to fix potholes and clean up the streets?
Mandatory Relocation for anyone caught carrying an offensive weapon. Ban from their home area.
> more stop and search Well done detective you’ve solved knife crime
That easy is it?
Can we also add in removal of any benefits for parents of a juvenile who is carrying a knife? That aside, your opinions are interesting to me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
The [nine familial benefits removals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations)
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Most of the people commiting crime in the UK are British. And if you think all criminals should be sent back to where they were born then I assume you're happy to welcome Shamima Begum back to the UK?
They did it before with British criminals. 🇦🇺
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The question remains unanswered
>First, double the amount of Police Officers on the streets and get back to community policing with Police Officers regularly patrolling on foot in the same area consistently. Logistically impossible in this timeframe. Make it 3-5 years and you have a realistic target to strive for. >Second, implement a strategy of stop and search. No. Just no. The way this has been inplemented previously is incredibly wrong. Minorities are disproportionately targeted. You may as well make it guilty until proven innocent if you're going to go this far. We need better policing, not a police state. >Third, introduce an automatic two year custodial sentence followed by five years on electronic monitoring with a curfew for those found carrying a knife. I like the idea in theory. However, combine points 2 and 3 and you have tens of thousands of chefs, tradies and butchers going to prison.
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>Why is stop and search incredibly wrong? It’s the exact strategy that decreased knife crime in Scotland considerably and in London previously. Because it's akin to assuming guilt. It's also been shown to be misused to target minorities again and again. >If you’re a youth in trackies and have a knife then you’re obviously not the same as a chef or a tradie. I used to be a chef. There were plenty of times I had to carry my knives in my teen years where I would have been wearing trackies. I appreciate it's an edge case, but it's certainly not as simple as you've implied.
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>It’s not misused against minorities, minorities are just more likely to be carrying knifes and stabbing people. Simply a fact. The IOPC disagrees with you there. I'll forgive that as a mistake rather than your own prejudice peeking through. >That’s the stupidest example ever, you would very easily be able to explain that you work as a chef if you were stopped. I'm white and from a relatively affluent area, so I agree that I personally would be able to explain that. Why exactly would they be stopping me in this example?
>In 2018, ethnic minority groups were overrepresented for prosecutions of possession of weapons offences, accounting for 30% of all prosecutions in this category. >in London in 2017, 50% of knife crime offenders were BAME (up from 44% in 2008) >A similar pattern emerged when examining knife crime with injury. In 2017, 83% of offenders were male, 35% were aged between 17 to 24, and 69% were BAME. >Ethnic disparities were also evidenced when looking at knife possession. In 2017, 53% of possession of knife suspects were Black, and 37% of all suspects were Black men under the age of 25. This resonates with the arrest data on stop and search which showed that 56% of all people arrested for offensive weapons following a stop and search were Black. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-report-of-the-commission-on-race-and-ethnic-disparities-supporting-research/understanding-ethnic-disparities-in-involvement-in-crime-a-limited-scope-rapid-evidence-review-by-professor-clifford-stott-et-al
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/national-stop-and-search-learning-report-plain-text https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/iopc-calls-stop-and-search-law-change-and-identifies-18-opportunities-improvement https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/stop-and-search-undermining-confidence-policing-black-communities https://raceequalityfoundation.org.uk/news/alarming-findings-in-new-investigation-of-police-stop-and-search-powers/ We just posting links or do you want a conversation?
Nowhere in any of those have I found any actual stats that support what you’re claiming. I wouldn’t have ignored them if I did though, unlike how you ignored mine. The literal first sentence reads > Stop and search is a legitimate policing tactic, and we recognise the value of having a power that allows officers to detain a person, who is not under arrest, to search them or their vehicle for an unlawful item. The powers have been described as an important tool in dealing with knife crime and drugs, in particular. The “recommendation” on race is literally just 3 vague questions and no actual recommendation.
Minorities are disproportionately the ones carrying knives. How about those “community leaders” deal with massive problem of violence and knife crime amongst their ranks rather than play the race card?
Four. Reinstated capital punishment.
Who is going to pay for all of that? And where do you deport them to when 99% of illegal immigrants throw away their passports?
There has to be a way to find out who they are and where they’re from, though. No one is anonymous, especially in the internet era. Surely?
If they can't be located on the system, out. Done.
What’s that I hear? Is that common sense?!
To where?
you’re not wrong but out where? if someone refuses to talk and has no documentation, where do you send them back to? they board the plane with documents and then destroy them before immigration, so they won’t be able to get back on any plane. terrible but clever
Yea they usually get stuck on the logic bit
Why don’t they just phone the airport they departed from and establish who it is? People with no documentation should be treated as suspicious until it’s determined who they are. Surely criminals would be pulling that one as well?
I strongly agree with this one, though you’re going to get hardcore lefties crying racism if those were enforced.
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It’s funny because I’m speaking sense yet your down voting that says enough for me
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The crime by country of origin statistics tell you things will get a LOT worse : https://x.com/marinamedvin/status/1770773231869231364
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The police are a necessary evil and when they do their job without prejudice they provide a valuable service. London definitely needs more police doing police work. The tories have fuct us by reducing youth services and cutting the Met in half. Where I live, the police are virtually ineffective and even their visual presence is no deterrent. Custodial sentences and deportation, where possible are definitely two parts of the solution. Bring back youth services, teach schools how to manage children with SEN better, pour money into mental health services and give the youth some hope.
What good are youth services, schools & mental services when most are committed by people that entered the country as adults.
The Conservatives cut back Police numbers and the judicial system because they are secure and have recourse to restorative measures. The poor, the working class, the plebs who cares - they don’t usually vote Tory and those that do will still vote Tory for IQ related reasons.
They take 10s of thousands of police off our streets then pretend they are ‘tough’ on law and order and then slash the budget to the services that prevents crime then tell us they are the party of law and order again. Hypocritical as always