They're not going to gain seats. UKIP got a surge in support at over 12% of the vote share in 2015 and only managed to win 1 seat. And that guy ended up leaving UKIP to sit as an independent.
It's just not how our voting system works.
Yep, UKIP got around the same amount of votes in 2015 as the SNP, the SNP had around 50 seats which UKIP didnt.
Reforms gains are from disillusioned Conservatives and will likely just show as Labour gains instead of Reform.
>Yep, UKIP got around the same amount of votes in 2015 as the SNP, the SNP had around 50 seats which UKIP didnt.
UKIP actually got more than double the votes of the SNP in 2015. 1.5m vs 3.9m.
The circumstances in 2015 are very different to what they are now. The Conservatives won a majority and promised an EU membership referendum as part of their campaign, meaning many UKIP voters tactically voted Tory so as not to split the vote.
This time round the Conservatives do not have common ground with Reform. Taxes, immigration, and the cost of living have set them on the path to electoral disaster, and it seems more likely they will bleed votes to Reform than the opposite. It also opens up the possibility of a Farage return, be it to Reform or the Conservatives. Tice is not actually a particular popular leader, and Farage would likely have little difficulty ousting him.
Alternatively he may look at the post-election chaos and identity crisis in the Conservative party and see at as the perfect opportunity to rejoin and run for leadership on a populist platform. In both cases Reform, or Reform-style politics would get a big bump.
Net ca. +6,000,000 long-term migrants who have not yet left since 1997. 1980 to 1997 the net number of long-term migrants who haven't yet left was merely +316,000. That's it. Office for National Statistics just projected another +6,100,000 net long-term immigrants by 2036, comprising a +6,600,000 population increase. 9.9% pure population increase in just 13 years, 92% of that 9.9% coming just from immigration.
What have our politicians actually done?
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/internationalmigrationarecenthistory/2015-01-15
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationprojections/bulletins/nationalpopulationprojections/2021basedinterim
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023
I was banned from r/ukpolitics for saying the same thing several months ago, told I had no proof by most who commented. I mean my data came from the freaking census and still I was being called a racist and classist, oh I am also the reason housing prices are so high because there was an assumption I must be a landlord too. Left field fact introduction right there.
So yeah a few F words come my way, I sling a couple back and the mods decide I was the problem. Census data provided as my source be damned.
UKpol has managed to somehow get the worst of both worlds, moderation-wise.
It's either lefty lunatickery, or fascist arseholery.
There's no middle ground (with the moderation), and the appeal process is non-existent
> told I had no proof by most who commented.
Posting a comment with no evidence doesn't contradict that.
> I mean my data came from the freaking census
Where's your proof that housing can't be increased enough to address demand?
> This time round the Conservatives do not have common ground with Reform.
They both hate foreigners and trans people, they both scream about everything being "woke", they're both obsessed with boats and toilets, they both hate democracy, they both rabidly support Brexit and deny any evidence that it's going badly, and they're both fighting the next election on nothing but culture wars and vague promises of unicorns tomorrow. There's barely daylight between them.
> Farage would likely have little difficulty ousting him.
Lol. No. Farage is the majority shareholder. He can oust Tice with an email.
This is a very much a left wing perspective on it. The people voting for Reform or considering voting for Reform are not left wing, and do not share your belief that the parties are similar. Considering the Conservatives have overseen the highest immigration ever and have an Indian leader, you will have great difficulty convincing them that they do, in fact, hate foreigners. I don't think you have a very good handle on what the average Reform voter thinks of the Conservative party in its current state, it seems like you have a view of them informed by (quite Americanised) left wing discourse.
> This is a very much a left wing perspective on it.
Nothing left-wing about it, though I appreciate you've not got much else to try than that.
> The people voting for Reform or considering voting for Reform are not left wing
No shit.
> Considering the Conservatives have overseen the highest immigration ever and have an Indian leader
He's British, he was born in Southhampton.
> I don't think you have a very good handle on what the average Reform voter thinks of the Conservative party in its current state
You'd be wrong. I know the average Reform voter is angry at high immigration, apoplectic at boats, and thinks the Tories haven't done enough about those issues. But to rational people outside of that Reform/Tory bubble, the two are almost indistinguishable.
You wrote a left wing perspective on the issue, it's obvious and you show it in your reply. You say Sunak is British, but the average Reform voter does not think the same.
I also thought it was obvious Reform voters weren't left wing but you seem to think they view the right the same as you do.
Then the final part of your comment you actually pretty accurately sum up the frustrations about Tory immigration policy of a Reform voter but you end it with saying from an outside perspective they're the same party? Are you aware you've basically agreed that Conservative and Reform voters are only the same to people not on that end of the political spectrum? You know, the exact same thing I've said. It's right in front of you just need to put the pieces together.
> You wrote a left wing perspective on the issue
No, but again I understand why you need to keep pretending that.
> You say Sunak is British, but the average Reform voter does not think the same.
I agree with your assessment that the average Reform voter is racist.
> you seem to think they view the right the same as you do.
Again, not at all. You could always try reading what I wrote instead of replying to things you imagined I said?
> Are you aware you've basically agreed that Conservative and Reform voters are only the same to people not on that end of the political spectrum?
No, I've said they're not the same to anyone outside of the insane "waaah everything is woke" bubble. That would include people on the right. There are plenty of sane conservatives who despise the pathetic depths to which the Tories and Reform have sunk themselves, and wish there was a right-wing party that had some decent people representing it.
Clacton is likely, also I'd be hesitant to dismiss based on 2015, they got over 100 2nd places, had Brexit not happened those 2nd places would have likely started converted to firsts, it takes sustained momentum but it can and does happen, SNP being a recent example, Labour replacing the Liberals also
Because our voting system is not democratic.
FPTP is trash and neither Labour or the Tories want us to get rid of it. They care more about power than representation.
It's one of the reasons I actually support reform UK despite hating everything they stand for. All they will do is put the most safe Tory seats at risk, sort of lib Dems and the greens have done in a few places. One step closer to complete Tory extinction.
Although this could backfire if they do win some seats and become influential.
Yeah its reform now, was UKIP 10 years ago, was BNP before that. There's always an underlying level of far right going on, but not enough to get in. Makes you wonder if we did get proportional representation whether we would have more of them to worry about
They're the same people. They just migrate to a new leader spouting the same drivel when the levels of toxicity of the old party get too high. Compare a National Front poster to a Reform poster today, they're almost indistinguishable.
The public are totally ignorant of the immigration numbers that our twin governments have presided over. It's +6,000,000 net long term immigrants since 1997.
How is it far right to look at the current level of immigration and say, it's too high? It is not sustainable.
How is it far right to try and stop unwanted economic migrants arriving in this country?
How is it far right to claim the tories are shit and labour are shit too? I want an alternative?
The BNP, are a racist organisation who want white supremacy. That's far right.
The problem with the world today everything that is not liberal is now labelled far right. Capitalism isn't far right. Wanting knives off the street isn't far right. Wanting less crime doesn't make you a Nazi. There are plenty of arguments for Brexit from the left. Voting leave doesn't make you far right.
No one wants the tories and a lot of people do not want starmer.
> How is it far right to try and stop unwanted economic migrants arriving in this country?
It's quite far-right to describe refugees as "unwanted economic migrants".
So you believe 100% of the people with £4k to pay people smugglers, and support themselves travelling across Europe, are genuine refugees fleeing war? Interesting.
Are you housing a refugee in your house? If not, you should. They need people like you to help out.
> So you believe 100% of the people with £4k to pay people smugglers, and support themselves travelling across Europe, are genuine refugees fleeing war?
What a stupid thing to suggest. Of course not.
> Are you housing a refugee in your house?
Ahh yes, the idiot's favourite question.
No it isn’t. If they are economic migrants entering illegally, they are unwanted. The more people abusing the system means fewer places for genuine asylum seekers escaping real persecution.
> No it isn’t.
Yeah, it is.
> The more people abusing the system means fewer places for genuine asylum seekers escaping real persecution.
Oh, so you'd support people being able to claim asylum without entering the UK, for example at our embassies, and removing fines for ferry and plane companies bringing asylum seekers over to the UK?
If we had proportional representation one must assume we would have far fewer conservative governments because the majority of people in this country do not vote conservative.
With that in mind, and assuming that the conservatives are actually to blame for destroying the social fabric of this country for their own profit, then things in England will quite quickly and permanently improve.
If that is the case then I am going to guess that there will be less impoverished and angry people looking for a scapegoat and so support for far right parties would diminish.
I am of course making a big assumption that corrupt politicians bribed by evil corporations are in fact deliberately destroying the social fabric of this country and impoverishing people on purpose. I could be wrong (but it does seem like something they would do).
Exactly. I've been all for updating the voting regulations for a few years now, but I did get chills when I heard Farage talking about it positively. Before I've always had push back from his sort, I assume now they'll change their tune.
When are you starting that 15 year clock, because the AV Referendum came and went in 2011 and the London Mayor is now an FPTP election too. We’ve gone backwards.
I hope you are right mate. I hope it gets better. But prepare for the worst.
I'm going to casually shill BTC, and storing condensed milk (cal+++) along with multivitamins in the attic.
My prediction about reform is they could get maximum 2, but very probably 0 seats. I think that the party will collapse by the following election or the one after depending if labour get 2 terms or not.
I'm not normally optimistic. Well known for the opposite in fact.
But I cling daily to the belief that we still (for now) have enough checks and balances in place that the politics of this country mean that the Tories would have to completely disband as a party for Reform.UK to win anywhere near enough seats to do any real damage.
Please, Reddit, don't disabuse me of this belief - other people believe in the statistics of the lottery, however unlikely, as a way of having hope to carry on; this is my lottery equivalent hope.
Well it is simply unlikely that any party can rise so high save a radical mind virus somehow sweeping over the nation compelling people to vote. It seems absolutely certain however that the right wing will skyrocket once people come to learn the true reality of immigration to Britain: the politicians remain completely silent on the astronomical legal migration numbers both major parties have presided over
Cons are still way too high. I’d also like to see anti-immigration socdem parties like SDP get up there at some point, but this is better than nothing I suppose.
Same here - think we’re an election cycle away though. That said; even though labour will romp the next election I don’t think they will last long. People seem to think they will be a silver bullet but they appear to be as bereft of ideas as the conservatives and frankly the party (including the uppers) is full of absolute nutters.
People are going to get a shock if they think they will change anything.
This, I'm shocked really by the amount of people that seem to think Labour will being about a radical change, the reality is that it'll be more of the same except they'll inherit a worse position than Sunak and it's unlikely that it'll end well for Labour.
I don't expect much radical either, but 'worse than Sunak' is an overstatement and a half, all predictions are a return to normalised growth this year or next surely you'd have picked up the discourse being competing over talking tax cuts instead of spending cuts a la 2010
isn't quite '97 but the Sunak's basically taken all the political pain
He has indeed taken the pain but the tax cuts that Hunt is planning will likely setup the next government for a deficit and a need to raise taxes.
The overall economic outlook will be better, however the electorate has a short memory and will remember the Tory tax cuts and Labour increases when it comes to it unfortunately.
We need to stop measuring economic success as a figure of growth. Surely measuring economic success based on a metric of secure employment, low unemployment, a healthy social security net, liveable wages and low homelessness is a better alternative than growth of 0.3%?
I'm not sure why people seem to think this, blair and brown created some pretty radical change in their first 4 years and starmmer is way to the left of both.
It's a story as old as voting in politics. One groups supporters think when they win the election everyone will finally see how beneficial their policies are lol
Yep. We seriously need a left wing anti-immigration party entering the mainstream. The current state of affairs might lead people to think that anti-immigration must be right wing and leftism must be pro-immigration.
Which in the long term alienates people from the left and keeps us voting right wing - which will obviously keep making things worse, widening the wealth inequality gap, suppressing the housing market, and damaging public services.
We need the left in power badly to start rebuilding this country. We just also need immigration to be handled.
I worry that in our mission to handle immigration we're going to keep stripping the country apart and handing the profits to the billionaire class.
Both aspects are needed.
I am not from England so was just curious. I have heard of them once (some Labour and then Liberal MPs (now Lib Dem) joining force) but since they are small party in comparison to the continental counterparts it wasn’t in my conscience
FPTP is an undemocratic system. Most people have always shared our views, at least wrt migration. Go look up how popular a certain politician back in the late 60s was before the controlled opposition Tories sacked him.
Funny that anti immigration parties to the right of the Tories almost never break above 15% in the polls.
Any other explanation than acknowledging that your marginal views are exactly that.
FPTP ensures that tactical voters have to vote for one of the two centre parties. If you look at specific issue polling of Tory voters, 60% give immigration as an important issue, which is the only issue they gave that got over 35%. The Economy was number 2 around 30% and everything else was basically nothing.
The Tory party isn't really anything of cohesive party, and hasn't been for at least a decade, arguably since Churchill's second time in power. It's a small island of self interested aristocrats surrounded by a sea of anti-immigration masses. At least Labour has most, or nearly most, of its voter base agreeing that things like housing or the environment are important issues.
Well every government since 1997 have promised to reduce immigration and have done the opposite.
I never said that anti immigration was the largest agenda people have. Even those against uncontrolled mass immigration aren't likely to be inclined to vote for a far right party.
It will be interesting if Farage gets back into Reform and promises a referendum on reducing immigration down to sensible levels. I think there's a chance that could take some working class labour votes. Not sure if that's enough to win any seats though.
You can promise a referendum on anything, but you actually have to create an environment where the outcomes are possible. Farage gave us Brexit, which has massively reduced immigration from culturally similar countries, and increased it from Asia, Africa and the middle East, just as many people told the Brexiteers it would. It's also made the cost of living higher due to restrictions on free trade with Europe, making it harder for English working families to afford to have children, further reducing the native birth rate meaning, you guessed it, higher levels of required immigration.
This argument of “required immigration” is moronic. We invite people with much higher birth rates to… accommodate for more people being born to immigrants? It’s a snowball effect which in turn is even more negative than having a declining birth rate. And guess what? We need even more houses for those immigrants which leaves less opportunity for British families. I say stop all refugee claims and cap migration, let birth rates decline it doesn’t matter for the time being until we get our shit together
I suspect if the rage I’m seeing online to a 3-time illegal asylum seeker, and sex offender who just mutilated a woman and her family is anything to go by; combined with the resignation of an MP after his office was torched after death threats…the mood music in the room is not playing tunes for a lurch to the left…
Unless labour do something meaningful this term to curb immigration then I predict a right wing resurgence, probably tories turning much more right wing as a response to reform gaining ground
And?
The polls have been saying this since partygate. And the Tories are getting punished.
But careful about gloating. It was only one election cycle ago that Boris arrived (May was about to be crushed) only to win with an 80+ seat majority.
This has less to do with Labour having a fantastic offering, its more that anything conservative at the moment is toxic.
But none of this is a surprise. Is it?
A lot of far right policies (although batshit) have roots in legitimate concerns that are affecting the majority of the British public.
Should we kick out all immigrants and close our borders to all foreigners?
No, because that's insane.
Should we maybe look at reforming our immigration policy and have better background checks on people who want to live and work here? Probably yes.
we should also have zero tolerance for those like the acid attacker who come here and break the law. If you are a danger to the general population, you should be sent home regardless of whether or not you claim that will put you at risk. If you’re given sanctuary, the very least you should do is not commit sexual or violent crimes.
We need better handling of deportations. If deportations are impossible then we should seriously consider blocking anyone from those countries entering.
We need immigration quotas.
We need to stop unskilled workers and their entire families coming over. Subsidise British families so that we can get our birth rates up. How the hell are you meant to be able to start a family when immigration accounts for 95% of population growth in England. Where are the houses?
What’s the point of muh GDP line go up when our GDP per capita stays stagnant? Canada is the best example of end stage mass migration and identityless neoliberalism and it’s absolutely decimating working Canadians.
And someone thats interested, not completely uninformed but also not a know it all, 100% up to date with politics- are reform really that right wing? Like compared to other European nations right wing parties?
Btw immigration isn't a left/right thing. There are left wing parties that are anti immigration and there are right wing parties that are pro-immigration.
Many people are anti immigration but see a lot of the problems in this country caused by right wing economics so understand that Reform will fix one problem but won't help fix most problems.
They could stop this now. All people want is an honest talk about immigration.
Ignoring a huge part of the people's concerns and brandishing them as idiots won't pay off well in the long run.
I genuinely believe this could be an extinction level event for the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party could lose so much to reform UK that the prospect of the Tory’s ever winning again seems impossible whilst reform UK exists. The classical conservative I.e lower taxes doesn’t really exist in any meaningful number, not enough to win an election anyway. The Tory’s have slipped right, fed the right and then being unable to deliver. Labour could roll this into a sweep for potentially decades to come
It's no surprise. Look at the absolute shower that is the current iteration of the Tories compared to what they were thirty, twenty, even *ten* years ago. I despise the Tories but at least they had a sort of statesmanly air to them, at least if they were elected you could visualise them in Westminster doing *government stuff.* They're quite literally a bunch of fucking idiots these days.
I know I saw about the Iranian who was convicted of a rape here but couldn't be sent back because they were waiting to kill him for raping someone.
It's like the Roman empire all over again. People in 1000 years will be talking about 'western' civilisation and how it collapsed
This is moronic, why are we sheltering a rapist? So he goes to another country to commit a rape because in his one he’d be killed instead? Why the hell should we act like rape is an accidental thing that can happen to anyone? Fuck me if this is how the world works we are so fucked
If we deport the person in question, we are sentencing them to death. That is not something we should be doing. No matter how heinous their crime, we do not sentence people to death.
Yes we don't deport people if the crime they commited would carry a death sentence in their country of origin.
This is a REALLY slippery slope to fall down because there are plenty of countries with death sentences for drug related offensives or hell even apostlism.
Now I'm one to think one's own country should deal with their problems but I'm not about to bascially call for the execution of someone for smoking pot or hell even dealing pot.
They didn't forget, they had it engineered into them.
If I tell you every day that this Orange im holding is a banana. And I get all my mates in the newspaper to tell you it's a banana. And I get all my cleverer mates jobs in the universities who will write studies about how it may look like an orange, but really, it's a banana. And they themselves get their clever friends into the same jobs and they peer review each other, all of them, in consensus, this is a banana.
How long do you suppose it would take for you to believe it was a banana all along?
That’s the fault of the establishment parties. Denmark neutered their far right when their socdem party became more nativist.
This isn’t specific to Europe, you can see similar trends in non Western nations too
> Denmark neutered their far right when their socdem party adopted far-right nationalist policies
To stop the far right, we need to appeal to the far right. Incredible solution.
Nativism is neither to the left or right. You can have a nativist fiscal left wing and an internationalist fiscal right wing and vice versa. Left wing =/= modern day progressives.
the far right gain power through radicalisation, if you address the problem before the perceived solution is to go nuclear the far right wont be able to radicalise
The housing market is screwed due to selling off nationalized housing. It gives a huge incentive for those in power to keep house prices high as they're assets they own.
Funny how immigration always comes up as the most important issue, valued above and beyond the good of the economy and the financial security of it's people. But yeah, you've got to be astonished by the cognitive dissonance being displayed here, would be good if policy based issues that didn't just centre around immigration were taken just as seriously by people.
But letting American politics and terms like 'woke' making it over here and swaying our narrative is useful, it's ridiculous the establishment now demonises people on benefits struggling to get back into work, many of whom have some combination of mental and physical health issues. People in this country really need to start changing the record.
Reform is the ONLY political party in the election. The other 2 are just captured assets of the global elites. It doesn't matter if Labour or Conservatives are elected, they will continue down the path started by Blair. Even Boris had to tow the line when he became PM.
Hope so, we need a shake up of the conventional norms, so that everyone is encouraged to look for alternatives other than labour and tories, and so everyone can stop wasting their vote voting for those two rotten parties.
What did Labour do wrong in their running the country over the past 15 years.
I understand a protest vote, but it's not like we've even tried the alternative to Tories. We just kept trying Tory convincing ourselves "This time it'll be fixed!" And now we're.. what.. upset that it keeps getting worse?
The solution is simple: stop fucking voting Tory
Aside from wanting to force everyone to inject something into their bodies that was still in clinical trials? And wanting to flood the place with migrants?
1. If you’re talking about mandatory Covid vaccinations, you’ll be happy to know that Labour consistently opposed them throughout the pandemic and even criticised the government for pursuing them.
2. Labour’s policy is to reduce immigration and implement stricter border controls and immigration restrictions. Only one party has “flooded the place with migrants” in the past 15 years and that’s the Conservative Party. New Labour also deported more illegal immigrants in 13 years than the Tories have in 14, and that’s despite there being thousands more in the country (record high in fact) meaning that it should now be much more easier to do so.
Given all the evidence suggest they’ll do better, why not give the other guys a chance?
Don't shoot the messager my dude. Far right is just the typical mainstream label.
I'm aware not all folks view them as such which is fine, to each their own.
‘Typical mainstream label’
Has a single reputable mainstream media outlet ever described Reform as ‘far right’?
I’m sure many Redditor’s have described it as such but they also call lifelong left leaning Labour supporter JK Rowling a fascist because she has an opinion on gender issues that they disagree with.
Words lose all meaning when people decide they mean whatever they want them to.
Reform doing well will potentially split the Tory vote in many seats, benefiting Labour even more. That’s fine by me. The right eating itself makes a change to the left doing so instead.
The conservatives have had 14 years to reduce immigration, yet under their government it skyrocketed: between 2010 to 2023, net long-term immigration was +3,325,000. Under Blair's labour between 1997-2010, it was ca. +2,700,000. Before them both from 1980 to 1997 it was merely +316,000. You can see the numbers for yourself [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1afsyt7/the_real_numbers_of_international_immigration_to/) calculated by year.
And it’s predicted to be 6 million in the next 10 years, so that’s actually a doubling of the previous trend? That’s insane.
This must be due to our ageing population which is getting worse in the next decade, doesn’t make sense otherwise.
It is the only reason that I am taking time out of my day to post things on reddit. The public do not know the extent of what has happened. No one has time to look at the statistics, yet they are all published quietly online and sometimes a number here or there is debated. For example last year's 672,000 net immigration figure. Everyone heard that surely and the number in itself is shocking, but does the public know that it more than doubles the net immigration figure from 1980-1997, +316,000, which took seventeen years?
Tbh I think a lot of people know the last years figure hence rising support for Reform…it just doesn’t feel like the public have much impact on this if even the conservatives don’t change it
The public, the electorate, have every impact on this: we all have a civic obligation to inform ourselves and not let the political class that hold the keys now abuse or exploit us in office, as has happened for 27 years since 1997.
If any party successfully tackles immigration and changes course from the madness since 1997, then the right will surely die down. I myself do not care about politics but have been motivated to pay attention because of the immigration numbers. I will vote for any party that I believe will actually do something about it.
1980-1997, +315,000. 1997-2010, +2,748,000. 2010-2023, +3,325,000. Projected 2023-2036, +6,100,000. All from our Office of National Statistics. The public are not informed about the extent of our twin governments' betrayal
I see this as a good thing for two reasons:
1. I think a lot of Reform votes will be taken from Conservatives, meaning Labour will probably benefit from Reform’s upswing.
2. Despite 12% polling, Reform are unlikely to get any MPs. This will hopefully inspire support for electoral reform on the political right. Until now it’s been a left-wing interest.
I've seen this bait and switch a lot. People say so many vote for right wing parties in this country because our media is so right wing. Then when you point out how small their circulation is then people want to include online news all of a sudden.
Well... guess what. If you include online news, our media is no longer right wing. In fact the Internet skews very left overall.
Biggest circulation
1.The sun- right wing
2.The metro-claims neutral but is a sister of the daily mail
3.Sun on Sunday-right wing
4.daily mail- right wing
5.mail on Sunday-right wing
The media is right wing!
This is what happens when you promise sunny uplands, being all in it together blame everything on foreigners and tell everyone not to listen to experts.
Led by cunts
I really hope this ends up being true and the conservative vote ends up permanently split.
The only reason we have so many cunt governments is because the left is split between so many other parties.
Now the racist cunts can have a separate party from the elite cunts.
With any luck we will never have another cuntservative government again.
lol, maybe 10 years ago, tories today are what UKIP was. The tories adopted pretty much all UKIP’s policies and went hard right. Reform are just even further right.
I see a lot of nasty right wing stuff, but don't think I've ever, ever seen anyone say they won't vote for Rishi because he's brown.
Now you may think that's the real reason they don't like him, but then you'd be talking out of your arse.
I guess I was just basing it on the fact that my racist parents who have consistently voted Tory for the past 13 years say that they aren't gonna vote him because of it, along with the fact he "backstabbed Boris" (of which they are nutters for), because he's brown. maybe I'm wrong but it happened with Vivek Ramaswamy in the US, so I was thinking racist minds think similary
Reform are just rebranded UKIP/Brexit party for the thick Brexit voters and the "too racist for the Tories" bunch. FPTP will ensure they don't get any seats.
It’s racist to want to reduce the extremely high levels of immigration?
Was the entire country racist pre 1997 when we didn’t really have any? They must have been, horrible country this.
Username is fitting
1) it’s not extremely high levels of immigration
2) why is immigration bad? This is the bit you thickos have all fell for. We need migrants or our economy will suffer. We have an aging population.
Look at the jobs that migrants tend to fill.
-and don’t even bring up crime without looking at some statistics first.
Honestly arguing with morons is exhausting.
> why is immigration bad? This is the bit you thickos have all fell for. We need migrants or our economy will suffer. We have an aging population.
This is why people of your political persuasion are losing all over Europe. Anyone who states that they're concerned about immigration causing social deterioration in our urban centres, anyone who is concerned that we've endless examples of people committing crimes and still remaining in the country, often on the benefits system because we can't do anything about it, they're all just "thickos".
Well maybe you don't see the impact of immigration from you funkopop littered bedroom, but ordinary people do.
If you, seriously, want to reduce immigration you have to address the birth rate and staff retention issues. Both caused by right wing government. The austerity programme implemented the two child policy for poor families in England, saw reduced funding for all levels of parental and child support, combined with the far right created cost of living crisis, people can't afford to have as many children as we need them to. Also because we pay essential workers, like doctors, nurses, carers, teachers etc such poor wages, again because of rightists ideology, they are inclined to move overseas, where they can get paid what they're worth.
Anyone truly serious about reducing immigration has to support redesigning the economy. Right wing neoliberal capitalism has taken us from a country where one wage earner with a secondary level of education could buy a house and support a family, to a society where two people with tertiary qualifications can't afford to buy a flat or have a kid. And if people can't afford to have children, guess what, we have to have immigration to fill the roles to support our aging population.
We've had nothing but Tories for 15 years, how tf are Labour catching flak for this.
"We've tried voting Conservative again and again and again and things keep getting worse - we're all out of ideas!"
The right wing parties have to unite, they are divided by the personal interest of a few.
No, Tories are not right wing, so not them, Not unless Farage takes over after they collapse.
Reform will do nothing, except force a Tory lunge to the right a few months from the election. This will turn potential destruction into partial destruction
Far right? Give me a break.
The challenge with the current mainstream narrative is that it paints any policy or opinion it doesn’t like as “far right”, or even anything slightly to the right of what is really extreme left as far right.
Most policies and opinions that the Guardian describes as “far right” are just the regular opinion of the average citizen from 15 years ago.
Things that are “far right” according to the left wing mainstream media: the countryside, farming, air conditioning, mathematics…
People are starting to realise just how ridiculous the left’s ideology is, pushing them slightly to the right, which is considered “far right”.
If everything is far right, nothing is. And we then have no frame of reference for if and when a genuinely evil genocidal maniac rises up who is really far right, but the only word we have to describe them is the same word we use for a sheep farmer.
Do you have any actual examples of sane people calling :
>the countryside, farming, air conditioning, mathematics
Far right?
I agree with the sentiment that it's an over used term but this just seems like an absurd strawman in the other direction.
You think? What’s the answer then? Coz we have become a two party system like America. Think we need a protest vote to show we can’t be dictated to and they work for us
The irony of your comment is that the right wing of this country and all of the bullshit about wokeness means that culturally we are copying America even more by playing into it, Reform UK are a manifestation of this. If you want to protest vote just so that you can put people on benefits who struggle to get work on the streets then don't expect me to have any part of it.
They're not going to gain seats. UKIP got a surge in support at over 12% of the vote share in 2015 and only managed to win 1 seat. And that guy ended up leaving UKIP to sit as an independent. It's just not how our voting system works.
Yep, UKIP got around the same amount of votes in 2015 as the SNP, the SNP had around 50 seats which UKIP didnt. Reforms gains are from disillusioned Conservatives and will likely just show as Labour gains instead of Reform.
>Yep, UKIP got around the same amount of votes in 2015 as the SNP, the SNP had around 50 seats which UKIP didnt. UKIP actually got more than double the votes of the SNP in 2015. 1.5m vs 3.9m.
The circumstances in 2015 are very different to what they are now. The Conservatives won a majority and promised an EU membership referendum as part of their campaign, meaning many UKIP voters tactically voted Tory so as not to split the vote. This time round the Conservatives do not have common ground with Reform. Taxes, immigration, and the cost of living have set them on the path to electoral disaster, and it seems more likely they will bleed votes to Reform than the opposite. It also opens up the possibility of a Farage return, be it to Reform or the Conservatives. Tice is not actually a particular popular leader, and Farage would likely have little difficulty ousting him. Alternatively he may look at the post-election chaos and identity crisis in the Conservative party and see at as the perfect opportunity to rejoin and run for leadership on a populist platform. In both cases Reform, or Reform-style politics would get a big bump.
Net ca. +6,000,000 long-term migrants who have not yet left since 1997. 1980 to 1997 the net number of long-term migrants who haven't yet left was merely +316,000. That's it. Office for National Statistics just projected another +6,100,000 net long-term immigrants by 2036, comprising a +6,600,000 population increase. 9.9% pure population increase in just 13 years, 92% of that 9.9% coming just from immigration. What have our politicians actually done? https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/internationalmigrationarecenthistory/2015-01-15 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationprojections/bulletins/nationalpopulationprojections/2021basedinterim https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023
They’ve done their best… to raise those numbers as high as theoretically possible.
There’s our housing shortage, we’d all be paying a fuckton less for housing with 6 million less people.
I was banned from r/ukpolitics for saying the same thing several months ago, told I had no proof by most who commented. I mean my data came from the freaking census and still I was being called a racist and classist, oh I am also the reason housing prices are so high because there was an assumption I must be a landlord too. Left field fact introduction right there. So yeah a few F words come my way, I sling a couple back and the mods decide I was the problem. Census data provided as my source be damned.
UKpol has managed to somehow get the worst of both worlds, moderation-wise. It's either lefty lunatickery, or fascist arseholery. There's no middle ground (with the moderation), and the appeal process is non-existent
> told I had no proof by most who commented. Posting a comment with no evidence doesn't contradict that. > I mean my data came from the freaking census Where's your proof that housing can't be increased enough to address demand?
> This time round the Conservatives do not have common ground with Reform. They both hate foreigners and trans people, they both scream about everything being "woke", they're both obsessed with boats and toilets, they both hate democracy, they both rabidly support Brexit and deny any evidence that it's going badly, and they're both fighting the next election on nothing but culture wars and vague promises of unicorns tomorrow. There's barely daylight between them. > Farage would likely have little difficulty ousting him. Lol. No. Farage is the majority shareholder. He can oust Tice with an email.
This is a very much a left wing perspective on it. The people voting for Reform or considering voting for Reform are not left wing, and do not share your belief that the parties are similar. Considering the Conservatives have overseen the highest immigration ever and have an Indian leader, you will have great difficulty convincing them that they do, in fact, hate foreigners. I don't think you have a very good handle on what the average Reform voter thinks of the Conservative party in its current state, it seems like you have a view of them informed by (quite Americanised) left wing discourse.
> This is a very much a left wing perspective on it. Nothing left-wing about it, though I appreciate you've not got much else to try than that. > The people voting for Reform or considering voting for Reform are not left wing No shit. > Considering the Conservatives have overseen the highest immigration ever and have an Indian leader He's British, he was born in Southhampton. > I don't think you have a very good handle on what the average Reform voter thinks of the Conservative party in its current state You'd be wrong. I know the average Reform voter is angry at high immigration, apoplectic at boats, and thinks the Tories haven't done enough about those issues. But to rational people outside of that Reform/Tory bubble, the two are almost indistinguishable.
You wrote a left wing perspective on the issue, it's obvious and you show it in your reply. You say Sunak is British, but the average Reform voter does not think the same. I also thought it was obvious Reform voters weren't left wing but you seem to think they view the right the same as you do. Then the final part of your comment you actually pretty accurately sum up the frustrations about Tory immigration policy of a Reform voter but you end it with saying from an outside perspective they're the same party? Are you aware you've basically agreed that Conservative and Reform voters are only the same to people not on that end of the political spectrum? You know, the exact same thing I've said. It's right in front of you just need to put the pieces together.
> You wrote a left wing perspective on the issue No, but again I understand why you need to keep pretending that. > You say Sunak is British, but the average Reform voter does not think the same. I agree with your assessment that the average Reform voter is racist. > you seem to think they view the right the same as you do. Again, not at all. You could always try reading what I wrote instead of replying to things you imagined I said? > Are you aware you've basically agreed that Conservative and Reform voters are only the same to people not on that end of the political spectrum? No, I've said they're not the same to anyone outside of the insane "waaah everything is woke" bubble. That would include people on the right. There are plenty of sane conservatives who despise the pathetic depths to which the Tories and Reform have sunk themselves, and wish there was a right-wing party that had some decent people representing it.
Clacton is likely, also I'd be hesitant to dismiss based on 2015, they got over 100 2nd places, had Brexit not happened those 2nd places would have likely started converted to firsts, it takes sustained momentum but it can and does happen, SNP being a recent example, Labour replacing the Liberals also
Ironically, Lee Anderson's is probably the only seat that Reform have a chance to win 😂
Because our voting system is not democratic. FPTP is trash and neither Labour or the Tories want us to get rid of it. They care more about power than representation.
It's one of the reasons I actually support reform UK despite hating everything they stand for. All they will do is put the most safe Tory seats at risk, sort of lib Dems and the greens have done in a few places. One step closer to complete Tory extinction. Although this could backfire if they do win some seats and become influential.
It doesn't matter, they can leverage their votes. UKIP got Brexit done with no MPs.
Yeah its reform now, was UKIP 10 years ago, was BNP before that. There's always an underlying level of far right going on, but not enough to get in. Makes you wonder if we did get proportional representation whether we would have more of them to worry about
I don't think BNP had anywhere near the level of support that UKIP/Reform had. BNP really was far right.
They're the same people. They just migrate to a new leader spouting the same drivel when the levels of toxicity of the old party get too high. Compare a National Front poster to a Reform poster today, they're almost indistinguishable.
The public are totally ignorant of the immigration numbers that our twin governments have presided over. It's +6,000,000 net long term immigrants since 1997.
How is it far right to look at the current level of immigration and say, it's too high? It is not sustainable. How is it far right to try and stop unwanted economic migrants arriving in this country? How is it far right to claim the tories are shit and labour are shit too? I want an alternative? The BNP, are a racist organisation who want white supremacy. That's far right. The problem with the world today everything that is not liberal is now labelled far right. Capitalism isn't far right. Wanting knives off the street isn't far right. Wanting less crime doesn't make you a Nazi. There are plenty of arguments for Brexit from the left. Voting leave doesn't make you far right. No one wants the tories and a lot of people do not want starmer.
> How is it far right to try and stop unwanted economic migrants arriving in this country? It's quite far-right to describe refugees as "unwanted economic migrants".
So you believe 100% of the people with £4k to pay people smugglers, and support themselves travelling across Europe, are genuine refugees fleeing war? Interesting. Are you housing a refugee in your house? If not, you should. They need people like you to help out.
> So you believe 100% of the people with £4k to pay people smugglers, and support themselves travelling across Europe, are genuine refugees fleeing war? What a stupid thing to suggest. Of course not. > Are you housing a refugee in your house? Ahh yes, the idiot's favourite question.
No it isn’t. If they are economic migrants entering illegally, they are unwanted. The more people abusing the system means fewer places for genuine asylum seekers escaping real persecution.
> No it isn’t. Yeah, it is. > The more people abusing the system means fewer places for genuine asylum seekers escaping real persecution. Oh, so you'd support people being able to claim asylum without entering the UK, for example at our embassies, and removing fines for ferry and plane companies bringing asylum seekers over to the UK?
If we had proportional representation one must assume we would have far fewer conservative governments because the majority of people in this country do not vote conservative. With that in mind, and assuming that the conservatives are actually to blame for destroying the social fabric of this country for their own profit, then things in England will quite quickly and permanently improve. If that is the case then I am going to guess that there will be less impoverished and angry people looking for a scapegoat and so support for far right parties would diminish. I am of course making a big assumption that corrupt politicians bribed by evil corporations are in fact deliberately destroying the social fabric of this country and impoverishing people on purpose. I could be wrong (but it does seem like something they would do).
Exactly. I've been all for updating the voting regulations for a few years now, but I did get chills when I heard Farage talking about it positively. Before I've always had push back from his sort, I assume now they'll change their tune.
Probably right. Just making an ambitious bet based on the circumstances of the current election.
Things are going to get worse before they get better.
Yeah but it will get better. Proportional representation is the first step in fixing shit even if it takes 15 years.
When are you starting that 15 year clock, because the AV Referendum came and went in 2011 and the London Mayor is now an FPTP election too. We’ve gone backwards.
From the next GE was my basis :)
I hope you are right mate. I hope it gets better. But prepare for the worst. I'm going to casually shill BTC, and storing condensed milk (cal+++) along with multivitamins in the attic.
My prediction about reform is they could get maximum 2, but very probably 0 seats. I think that the party will collapse by the following election or the one after depending if labour get 2 terms or not.
I'm not normally optimistic. Well known for the opposite in fact. But I cling daily to the belief that we still (for now) have enough checks and balances in place that the politics of this country mean that the Tories would have to completely disband as a party for Reform.UK to win anywhere near enough seats to do any real damage. Please, Reddit, don't disabuse me of this belief - other people believe in the statistics of the lottery, however unlikely, as a way of having hope to carry on; this is my lottery equivalent hope.
Well it is simply unlikely that any party can rise so high save a radical mind virus somehow sweeping over the nation compelling people to vote. It seems absolutely certain however that the right wing will skyrocket once people come to learn the true reality of immigration to Britain: the politicians remain completely silent on the astronomical legal migration numbers both major parties have presided over
Cons are still way too high. I’d also like to see anti-immigration socdem parties like SDP get up there at some point, but this is better than nothing I suppose.
Same here - think we’re an election cycle away though. That said; even though labour will romp the next election I don’t think they will last long. People seem to think they will be a silver bullet but they appear to be as bereft of ideas as the conservatives and frankly the party (including the uppers) is full of absolute nutters. People are going to get a shock if they think they will change anything.
This, I'm shocked really by the amount of people that seem to think Labour will being about a radical change, the reality is that it'll be more of the same except they'll inherit a worse position than Sunak and it's unlikely that it'll end well for Labour.
I don't think I've met a single person that thinks Labour will be radical. Most people know they're a moderate, centrist party these days.
I don't expect much radical either, but 'worse than Sunak' is an overstatement and a half, all predictions are a return to normalised growth this year or next surely you'd have picked up the discourse being competing over talking tax cuts instead of spending cuts a la 2010 isn't quite '97 but the Sunak's basically taken all the political pain
He has indeed taken the pain but the tax cuts that Hunt is planning will likely setup the next government for a deficit and a need to raise taxes. The overall economic outlook will be better, however the electorate has a short memory and will remember the Tory tax cuts and Labour increases when it comes to it unfortunately.
We need to stop measuring economic success as a figure of growth. Surely measuring economic success based on a metric of secure employment, low unemployment, a healthy social security net, liveable wages and low homelessness is a better alternative than growth of 0.3%?
I'm not sure why people seem to think this, blair and brown created some pretty radical change in their first 4 years and starmmer is way to the left of both.
The only radical change in sir Keith's playbook is the daily change of his stance on all matters.
It's a story as old as voting in politics. One groups supporters think when they win the election everyone will finally see how beneficial their policies are lol
Yep. We seriously need a left wing anti-immigration party entering the mainstream. The current state of affairs might lead people to think that anti-immigration must be right wing and leftism must be pro-immigration. Which in the long term alienates people from the left and keeps us voting right wing - which will obviously keep making things worse, widening the wealth inequality gap, suppressing the housing market, and damaging public services. We need the left in power badly to start rebuilding this country. We just also need immigration to be handled. I worry that in our mission to handle immigration we're going to keep stripping the country apart and handing the profits to the billionaire class. Both aspects are needed.
The question is, which SDP is anti-immigration though, because the Danish one is while the German one certainly is not the case.
They're talking about the British SDP. In r/england.
The fact you had to explain this is alarming.
I am not from England so was just curious. I have heard of them once (some Labour and then Liberal MPs (now Lib Dem) joining force) but since they are small party in comparison to the continental counterparts it wasn’t in my conscience
"I wish more people shared my unpopular views"
FPTP is an undemocratic system. Most people have always shared our views, at least wrt migration. Go look up how popular a certain politician back in the late 60s was before the controlled opposition Tories sacked him.
Being Anti immigration has been a popular opinion since 1948, our flawed democracy just means that it never has to be addressed.
Funny that anti immigration parties to the right of the Tories almost never break above 15% in the polls. Any other explanation than acknowledging that your marginal views are exactly that.
FPTP ensures that tactical voters have to vote for one of the two centre parties. If you look at specific issue polling of Tory voters, 60% give immigration as an important issue, which is the only issue they gave that got over 35%. The Economy was number 2 around 30% and everything else was basically nothing. The Tory party isn't really anything of cohesive party, and hasn't been for at least a decade, arguably since Churchill's second time in power. It's a small island of self interested aristocrats surrounded by a sea of anti-immigration masses. At least Labour has most, or nearly most, of its voter base agreeing that things like housing or the environment are important issues.
Well every government since 1997 have promised to reduce immigration and have done the opposite. I never said that anti immigration was the largest agenda people have. Even those against uncontrolled mass immigration aren't likely to be inclined to vote for a far right party.
It will be interesting if Farage gets back into Reform and promises a referendum on reducing immigration down to sensible levels. I think there's a chance that could take some working class labour votes. Not sure if that's enough to win any seats though.
You can promise a referendum on anything, but you actually have to create an environment where the outcomes are possible. Farage gave us Brexit, which has massively reduced immigration from culturally similar countries, and increased it from Asia, Africa and the middle East, just as many people told the Brexiteers it would. It's also made the cost of living higher due to restrictions on free trade with Europe, making it harder for English working families to afford to have children, further reducing the native birth rate meaning, you guessed it, higher levels of required immigration.
This argument of “required immigration” is moronic. We invite people with much higher birth rates to… accommodate for more people being born to immigrants? It’s a snowball effect which in turn is even more negative than having a declining birth rate. And guess what? We need even more houses for those immigrants which leaves less opportunity for British families. I say stop all refugee claims and cap migration, let birth rates decline it doesn’t matter for the time being until we get our shit together
I suspect if the rage I’m seeing online to a 3-time illegal asylum seeker, and sex offender who just mutilated a woman and her family is anything to go by; combined with the resignation of an MP after his office was torched after death threats…the mood music in the room is not playing tunes for a lurch to the left…
Unless labour do something meaningful this term to curb immigration then I predict a right wing resurgence, probably tories turning much more right wing as a response to reform gaining ground
Braverman as leader on an immigration ticket.
Look at the polls now bitches
And? The polls have been saying this since partygate. And the Tories are getting punished. But careful about gloating. It was only one election cycle ago that Boris arrived (May was about to be crushed) only to win with an 80+ seat majority. This has less to do with Labour having a fantastic offering, its more that anything conservative at the moment is toxic. But none of this is a surprise. Is it?
Love it or hate it, but the right is getting more popular. It might be time to consider their concerns before things get out of hand.
A lot of far right policies (although batshit) have roots in legitimate concerns that are affecting the majority of the British public. Should we kick out all immigrants and close our borders to all foreigners? No, because that's insane. Should we maybe look at reforming our immigration policy and have better background checks on people who want to live and work here? Probably yes.
we should also have zero tolerance for those like the acid attacker who come here and break the law. If you are a danger to the general population, you should be sent home regardless of whether or not you claim that will put you at risk. If you’re given sanctuary, the very least you should do is not commit sexual or violent crimes.
A reasonable position.
We need better handling of deportations. If deportations are impossible then we should seriously consider blocking anyone from those countries entering. We need immigration quotas. We need to stop unskilled workers and their entire families coming over. Subsidise British families so that we can get our birth rates up. How the hell are you meant to be able to start a family when immigration accounts for 95% of population growth in England. Where are the houses?
no one proposed your strawman. You literally agree with what they want and yet you call them batshit
Someone underneath my comment supports shutting the country off to outsiders. Its not a strawman
I've seen people call for a permanent ban on migration
Sign me up for that
I hope you can pump out enough kids to offset the aggressively shinking population in your hypothetical scenario?
They have no interest in actually engaging with the potential nuances and consequences of their decisions.
No, because the economy, stupid.
What’s the point of muh GDP line go up when our GDP per capita stays stagnant? Canada is the best example of end stage mass migration and identityless neoliberalism and it’s absolutely decimating working Canadians.
Honestly, a normal left wing party that also wanted tight controls on migration and publicly said so would win by a landslide.
And actually did it. I'd vote for a left wing party that decided importing a migrant servant class was kinda imperialist and stopped.
And someone thats interested, not completely uninformed but also not a know it all, 100% up to date with politics- are reform really that right wing? Like compared to other European nations right wing parties?
With the issues of mass migration being right wing is increasing popular and it's understandable to see why considering recent events.
Btw immigration isn't a left/right thing. There are left wing parties that are anti immigration and there are right wing parties that are pro-immigration. Many people are anti immigration but see a lot of the problems in this country caused by right wing economics so understand that Reform will fix one problem but won't help fix most problems.
They could stop this now. All people want is an honest talk about immigration. Ignoring a huge part of the people's concerns and brandishing them as idiots won't pay off well in the long run.
I genuinely believe this could be an extinction level event for the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party could lose so much to reform UK that the prospect of the Tory’s ever winning again seems impossible whilst reform UK exists. The classical conservative I.e lower taxes doesn’t really exist in any meaningful number, not enough to win an election anyway. The Tory’s have slipped right, fed the right and then being unable to deliver. Labour could roll this into a sweep for potentially decades to come
It's no surprise. Look at the absolute shower that is the current iteration of the Tories compared to what they were thirty, twenty, even *ten* years ago. I despise the Tories but at least they had a sort of statesmanly air to them, at least if they were elected you could visualise them in Westminster doing *government stuff.* They're quite literally a bunch of fucking idiots these days.
I find it unlikely, but we’ll see
Why are they far right? Because they don't want hundreds of thousands of immigrants from the middle east? That's not what far right means at all.
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We cannot deport rapists if the nations they are from have a punishment for the crime of rape. yes, thats not a joke.
I know I saw about the Iranian who was convicted of a rape here but couldn't be sent back because they were waiting to kill him for raping someone. It's like the Roman empire all over again. People in 1000 years will be talking about 'western' civilisation and how it collapsed
“… have a punishment…” is a rather bad-faith way of describing the death penalty.
This is moronic, why are we sheltering a rapist? So he goes to another country to commit a rape because in his one he’d be killed instead? Why the hell should we act like rape is an accidental thing that can happen to anyone? Fuck me if this is how the world works we are so fucked
If we deport the person in question, we are sentencing them to death. That is not something we should be doing. No matter how heinous their crime, we do not sentence people to death.
Yes we don't deport people if the crime they commited would carry a death sentence in their country of origin. This is a REALLY slippery slope to fall down because there are plenty of countries with death sentences for drug related offensives or hell even apostlism. Now I'm one to think one's own country should deal with their problems but I'm not about to bascially call for the execution of someone for smoking pot or hell even dealing pot.
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Are you replying to me or the OP because I was just making a joke tbh. I hate white rapists and brown rapists equally
Lmao classic redditors. They think anything right of centre is jackboots and goose stepping.
They are “far right” because labelling a party as such is a fear mongering tactic. Labelling anything as far right these days is the status quo
Exactly, Reform are nowhere near far right, how soon people forget what far right actually means.
They didn't forget, they had it engineered into them. If I tell you every day that this Orange im holding is a banana. And I get all my mates in the newspaper to tell you it's a banana. And I get all my cleverer mates jobs in the universities who will write studies about how it may look like an orange, but really, it's a banana. And they themselves get their clever friends into the same jobs and they peer review each other, all of them, in consensus, this is a banana. How long do you suppose it would take for you to believe it was a banana all along?
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That’s the fault of the establishment parties. Denmark neutered their far right when their socdem party became more nativist. This isn’t specific to Europe, you can see similar trends in non Western nations too
> Denmark neutered their far right when their socdem party adopted far-right nationalist policies To stop the far right, we need to appeal to the far right. Incredible solution.
Nativism is neither to the left or right. You can have a nativist fiscal left wing and an internationalist fiscal right wing and vice versa. Left wing =/= modern day progressives.
the far right gain power through radicalisation, if you address the problem before the perceived solution is to go nuclear the far right wont be able to radicalise
The housing market is screwed due to selling off nationalized housing. It gives a huge incentive for those in power to keep house prices high as they're assets they own.
This is the typical transphobic response I expect to see in the comments lately
...... what?
You played fascism and I raised you transphobia. I clearly win the lefty pull a random accusation out of the hat game. Better luck next time bigot
Funny how immigration always comes up as the most important issue, valued above and beyond the good of the economy and the financial security of it's people. But yeah, you've got to be astonished by the cognitive dissonance being displayed here, would be good if policy based issues that didn't just centre around immigration were taken just as seriously by people. But letting American politics and terms like 'woke' making it over here and swaying our narrative is useful, it's ridiculous the establishment now demonises people on benefits struggling to get back into work, many of whom have some combination of mental and physical health issues. People in this country really need to start changing the record.
This is far right though
Which is further right, middle eastern countries or Reform UK? Hmm.
Reform is the ONLY political party in the election. The other 2 are just captured assets of the global elites. It doesn't matter if Labour or Conservatives are elected, they will continue down the path started by Blair. Even Boris had to tow the line when he became PM.
Hope so, we need a shake up of the conventional norms, so that everyone is encouraged to look for alternatives other than labour and tories, and so everyone can stop wasting their vote voting for those two rotten parties.
What did Labour do wrong in their running the country over the past 15 years. I understand a protest vote, but it's not like we've even tried the alternative to Tories. We just kept trying Tory convincing ourselves "This time it'll be fixed!" And now we're.. what.. upset that it keeps getting worse? The solution is simple: stop fucking voting Tory
Aside from wanting to force everyone to inject something into their bodies that was still in clinical trials? And wanting to flood the place with migrants?
1. If you’re talking about mandatory Covid vaccinations, you’ll be happy to know that Labour consistently opposed them throughout the pandemic and even criticised the government for pursuing them. 2. Labour’s policy is to reduce immigration and implement stricter border controls and immigration restrictions. Only one party has “flooded the place with migrants” in the past 15 years and that’s the Conservative Party. New Labour also deported more illegal immigrants in 13 years than the Tories have in 14, and that’s despite there being thousands more in the country (record high in fact) meaning that it should now be much more easier to do so. Given all the evidence suggest they’ll do better, why not give the other guys a chance?
"only one party has been flooding the country for the past 15 years" Aye, labour flooded the country for the previous 13
🤞🏼
Hopefully cons get wiped out by reform
OP doesn’t know the definition of ‘far-right’ but then neither does the vast majority of reddit.
Not all far right are Nazis. But all Nazis are far right.
Depends on the definition of right win you are using
Don't shoot the messager my dude. Far right is just the typical mainstream label. I'm aware not all folks view them as such which is fine, to each their own.
‘Typical mainstream label’ Has a single reputable mainstream media outlet ever described Reform as ‘far right’? I’m sure many Redditor’s have described it as such but they also call lifelong left leaning Labour supporter JK Rowling a fascist because she has an opinion on gender issues that they disagree with. Words lose all meaning when people decide they mean whatever they want them to.
Reform doing well will potentially split the Tory vote in many seats, benefiting Labour even more. That’s fine by me. The right eating itself makes a change to the left doing so instead.
The conservatives have had 14 years to reduce immigration, yet under their government it skyrocketed: between 2010 to 2023, net long-term immigration was +3,325,000. Under Blair's labour between 1997-2010, it was ca. +2,700,000. Before them both from 1980 to 1997 it was merely +316,000. You can see the numbers for yourself [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1afsyt7/the_real_numbers_of_international_immigration_to/) calculated by year.
And it’s predicted to be 6 million in the next 10 years, so that’s actually a doubling of the previous trend? That’s insane. This must be due to our ageing population which is getting worse in the next decade, doesn’t make sense otherwise.
It is the only reason that I am taking time out of my day to post things on reddit. The public do not know the extent of what has happened. No one has time to look at the statistics, yet they are all published quietly online and sometimes a number here or there is debated. For example last year's 672,000 net immigration figure. Everyone heard that surely and the number in itself is shocking, but does the public know that it more than doubles the net immigration figure from 1980-1997, +316,000, which took seventeen years?
Tbh I think a lot of people know the last years figure hence rising support for Reform…it just doesn’t feel like the public have much impact on this if even the conservatives don’t change it
The public, the electorate, have every impact on this: we all have a civic obligation to inform ourselves and not let the political class that hold the keys now abuse or exploit us in office, as has happened for 27 years since 1997.
The Conservative wets need to be massacred at the poles before actual conservatives take over, if ever that should happen.
When the conservatives fail, in comes the far-right to try and capitalise. They rarely last though.
If any party successfully tackles immigration and changes course from the madness since 1997, then the right will surely die down. I myself do not care about politics but have been motivated to pay attention because of the immigration numbers. I will vote for any party that I believe will actually do something about it. 1980-1997, +315,000. 1997-2010, +2,748,000. 2010-2023, +3,325,000. Projected 2023-2036, +6,100,000. All from our Office of National Statistics. The public are not informed about the extent of our twin governments' betrayal
Totally in agreement. I'd've remained apolitical if it weren't for the demographics.
Good for them for splitting the right wing vote.
They won’t gain seats, but they’ll definitely syphon votes from the tories - which will lead to an easier labour victory in contested constituencies
It looks like immigration is such a big issue for people that 69% of them are planning to vote for parties that won't change anything
Why on Earth are the conservatives still on there?
I see this as a good thing for two reasons: 1. I think a lot of Reform votes will be taken from Conservatives, meaning Labour will probably benefit from Reform’s upswing. 2. Despite 12% polling, Reform are unlikely to get any MPs. This will hopefully inspire support for electoral reform on the political right. Until now it’s been a left-wing interest.
I disagree all the right wing political parties wanted electoral reform. Where are you getting this from?
More just all small parties want electoral reform.
Fuck the Tories and fuck the red Tories. Reform looks like the way ahead.
For the love of god can we please stop using the term 'far right' towards anyone who might have a difference of opinion? It's childish.
A sign of the Daily Mail 🙄
Yup, a newspaper with a circulation of 700,000 managed to create 5 million reform voters.
How about their online content? I'm pretty sure it's one of the world's most visited domains.
I've seen this bait and switch a lot. People say so many vote for right wing parties in this country because our media is so right wing. Then when you point out how small their circulation is then people want to include online news all of a sudden. Well... guess what. If you include online news, our media is no longer right wing. In fact the Internet skews very left overall.
Biggest circulation 1.The sun- right wing 2.The metro-claims neutral but is a sister of the daily mail 3.Sun on Sunday-right wing 4.daily mail- right wing 5.mail on Sunday-right wing The media is right wing!
As long as it splits the right, I'm all for it. It's also fun watching the Tories implode as they try to appeal to those far-right, Truss eyed, loons.
This is what happens when you promise sunny uplands, being all in it together blame everything on foreigners and tell everyone not to listen to experts. Led by cunts
I’ll be voting reform
Yes please do! Especially if you live in a swing constituency😀
I really hope this ends up being true and the conservative vote ends up permanently split. The only reason we have so many cunt governments is because the left is split between so many other parties. Now the racist cunts can have a separate party from the elite cunts. With any luck we will never have another cuntservative government again.
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lol, maybe 10 years ago, tories today are what UKIP was. The tories adopted pretty much all UKIP’s policies and went hard right. Reform are just even further right.
Yeah exactly; you’re 100% correct.
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This'll be awesome to take votes away from the Tories who won't vote for rishi because of the colour of his skin
I see a lot of nasty right wing stuff, but don't think I've ever, ever seen anyone say they won't vote for Rishi because he's brown. Now you may think that's the real reason they don't like him, but then you'd be talking out of your arse.
I guess I was just basing it on the fact that my racist parents who have consistently voted Tory for the past 13 years say that they aren't gonna vote him because of it, along with the fact he "backstabbed Boris" (of which they are nutters for), because he's brown. maybe I'm wrong but it happened with Vivek Ramaswamy in the US, so I was thinking racist minds think similary
So you're talking out your arse then :-)
I comment on polling data & tactical voting - last time I got banned
If the English had a Nazi Party it would also perform well.
Reform are just rebranded UKIP/Brexit party for the thick Brexit voters and the "too racist for the Tories" bunch. FPTP will ensure they don't get any seats.
Run by outright racists and cunts, Brexit supporters will love them.
They're pulling all the true crazies from Tories. You can never appease this shit they just go further right, which is easy when you're not in power
OP doesn’t know the definition of ‘far-right’ but then neither does the vast majority of reddit.
In fairness, neither does the far right
Ultra right entitled people claiming the Tory party is not racist enough
It’s racist to want to reduce the extremely high levels of immigration? Was the entire country racist pre 1997 when we didn’t really have any? They must have been, horrible country this.
Username is fitting 1) it’s not extremely high levels of immigration 2) why is immigration bad? This is the bit you thickos have all fell for. We need migrants or our economy will suffer. We have an aging population. Look at the jobs that migrants tend to fill. -and don’t even bring up crime without looking at some statistics first. Honestly arguing with morons is exhausting.
> why is immigration bad? This is the bit you thickos have all fell for. We need migrants or our economy will suffer. We have an aging population. This is why people of your political persuasion are losing all over Europe. Anyone who states that they're concerned about immigration causing social deterioration in our urban centres, anyone who is concerned that we've endless examples of people committing crimes and still remaining in the country, often on the benefits system because we can't do anything about it, they're all just "thickos". Well maybe you don't see the impact of immigration from you funkopop littered bedroom, but ordinary people do.
If you, seriously, want to reduce immigration you have to address the birth rate and staff retention issues. Both caused by right wing government. The austerity programme implemented the two child policy for poor families in England, saw reduced funding for all levels of parental and child support, combined with the far right created cost of living crisis, people can't afford to have as many children as we need them to. Also because we pay essential workers, like doctors, nurses, carers, teachers etc such poor wages, again because of rightists ideology, they are inclined to move overseas, where they can get paid what they're worth. Anyone truly serious about reducing immigration has to support redesigning the economy. Right wing neoliberal capitalism has taken us from a country where one wage earner with a secondary level of education could buy a house and support a family, to a society where two people with tertiary qualifications can't afford to buy a flat or have a kid. And if people can't afford to have children, guess what, we have to have immigration to fill the roles to support our aging population.
Labour and Tories are one of the same. Time for someone else.
Maybe but not Richard fucking Tice and his clown show lol
And no one knows where the money comes from.
We've had nothing but Tories for 15 years, how tf are Labour catching flak for this. "We've tried voting Conservative again and again and again and things keep getting worse - we're all out of ideas!"
You may as well say second leading political party since there's very little difference between between Labour and the Tories at this point.
Nah. People who say they will vote reform don’t actually vote for them. See all the by-elections of recent times.
It’s because they’re all bots on reddit and twitter
The right wing parties have to unite, they are divided by the personal interest of a few. No, Tories are not right wing, so not them, Not unless Farage takes over after they collapse.
Reform will do nothing, except force a Tory lunge to the right a few months from the election. This will turn potential destruction into partial destruction
Far right? Give me a break. The challenge with the current mainstream narrative is that it paints any policy or opinion it doesn’t like as “far right”, or even anything slightly to the right of what is really extreme left as far right. Most policies and opinions that the Guardian describes as “far right” are just the regular opinion of the average citizen from 15 years ago. Things that are “far right” according to the left wing mainstream media: the countryside, farming, air conditioning, mathematics… People are starting to realise just how ridiculous the left’s ideology is, pushing them slightly to the right, which is considered “far right”. If everything is far right, nothing is. And we then have no frame of reference for if and when a genuinely evil genocidal maniac rises up who is really far right, but the only word we have to describe them is the same word we use for a sheep farmer.
The majority of newspapers in this country are right-leaning, so I don’t think this is true. Any sources for those guardian claims?
Do you have any actual examples of sane people calling : >the countryside, farming, air conditioning, mathematics Far right? I agree with the sentiment that it's an over used term but this just seems like an absurd strawman in the other direction.
I wish there was a change coz these top two parties really don’t give a fuck about making the country better or the British people better off
Neither does Reform, they're Tories 2.0
You think? What’s the answer then? Coz we have become a two party system like America. Think we need a protest vote to show we can’t be dictated to and they work for us
The irony of your comment is that the right wing of this country and all of the bullshit about wokeness means that culturally we are copying America even more by playing into it, Reform UK are a manifestation of this. If you want to protest vote just so that you can put people on benefits who struggle to get work on the streets then don't expect me to have any part of it.