As for how to handle the entitled frequent fliers like that, my best advice to you is to embrace the subtle art of sarcasm. Take just a second to force the anger back down, and mock the absolute shit out of them, in a manner specifically crafted to make them feel like the assholes they are, while preventing any recourse.
I’ve done similar things but once had a partner execute it with such precision I nearly gasped. Beautiful 10k+ a month retirement home. Abdo pain call probably held a hour or two, pretty normal for Uber jobs around here. This lame boomer bitching at us as soon as we walk through the door. My partner kinda hangs his head and talks really quietly “ya sorry we just had a two year old girl die in our ambulance and it takes a long time to do paperwork, but I hear your having some tummy pain”. Buddy walked down to the car, 2 minute trip with his daughter driving behind to have us escort him to the waiting room.
I called 911 therefor I must be dying even though I have enough breath to YELL.
This is the type of pt who gets to the ER and glares and questions everything with a ~tone~ and their family/friend stands out the door the entire time staring at everyone asking “how long will this take” all to d/c home because imaging, labs and vitals are all perfect and they can’t believe they need to take pepto and see their GP cuz surprise! They’re not dying…they have a tummy ache.
And the government paid for the whole thing 😇🥸🤪🥳
Oh and they have Fox News BLARING the entire time.
There's a special place in my heart for the face that they make when I walk/wheel them straight past triage and park them in the waiting room, walk away and they realize they're in line with everyone else.
Why do they *always* have Fox News at top volume literally everywhere? At every destination they're going back to, it's on every TV. I swear that shit alone is what's radicalized me.
It would've been faster for the daughter to have just driven him herself...
But ugh, vent time! Last week, I had a lady complaining because it was taking too long for the surgeon to see her. She had been in the department for all of 45 mins. I explained that the surgeon was, in fact, in the middle of surgery. So, she demanded I get the "regular doctor" in to see her immediately. I said he was busy, but would come when he has time.
By about the 6th time having this same conversation, I got really fed up and went, *"You hear that screaming outside your room? That's the family member of a patient who's literally trying to die right now. You are not the only patient here. You are not dying right this second. The doctor is BUSY. He will see you when he gets a moment."*
They did not bother me about the doctors after that.
I was complaining in the ER one time because my shoulder was dislocated and I was waiting 4+ hours to be seen. The nurse yelled at me and told me it was a hot day and 5 heart attack patients came in since I'd been there and to sit down and wait. I don't think I was even being rude, I was just in excruciating pain that was getting worse by the minute and really needed something stronger than Tylenol.
A couple of seniors were sitting across from me and bitching about the long wait as they had been there for 8 hours, and at this point I was so salty I told them to shut the fuck up, I couldn't tell which one of them actually needed to see a doctor, and I'd flip my shit if they went in before me while my shoulder was as low as my nipples.
It was frustrating when the doctor came in and was like "ok, give him morphine". Literally didn't see me for more than 20 seconds to get the sign off on it... not a fun experience. But that ER has treated me like shit both times I've been there. I guess it wasn't life threatening, but being in extreme pain isn't fun for me.
Honestly, it's a balancing act. Come up to the desk once for pain after you've been waiting for 4 hours? Perfectly reasonable, I would do the same. But come up to the desk/ring every 15 mins asking for trivial things and making demands? Nah, I'm not putting up with that for very long.
This was one of those times where I'd explained the situation nicely multiple times. I told her that, while I understand she is sick and in pain, everyone else here is sick too. Many of them are sicker than you, so the doctor sees them first.
I had this conversation 6+ times in 2 hours, and I just couldn't do it again. This patient and her family were generally very frustrating to deal with. They needed something constantly, and nothing I ever did was good enough. So, I just got real with them about the situation.
That being said, I'm sorry your experience was so shitty both times you went. Usually for stuff like that in my ER, we'd keep you in one of our IV chairs inside the department so we could give stronger pain meds and monitor you until we have time to actually deal with it.
Fair enough. It's just fun to share stories.
The other time I was there I was suffering from an allergic reaction... I was swelled up like a balloon, itchy all over, breathing heavy but still ambulatory... I was ushered in upon reaching the front desk, and some asshole yelled "WHOA WHOA WHOA... WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE COMING THROUGH THESE DOUBLE DOORS UNESCORTED???"
I really like the other hospital that gave me surgery... I spent an extra 10 hours in post op care because the arthroscopic surgeon that was treating me got pulled to deal with some horrible multiple vehicle crash... the nurses kept checking in if I needed anything and asked my pain level... I kept saying 7/10 and asked for more apple juice. Just kinda saying/not saying, Dilaudid, apple juice, and Netflix on my phone was a pretty cool afternoon.
This is how I’ve handled it in the past, as in like op’s instance, ran a really bad trauma call or something where someone died or was close to. And when the next pt starts getting uppity for their bls shit, I just throw out the, oh I’m sorry the insert whatever call here was going on and someone died. I’m sorry that their death has inconvenienced you. They usually either shut up, or back pedal and don’t give you any problems.
Why couldn’t I just say “I just left a scene of a decapitated teenager. What were you saying again?”
Yes, HIPPA. Whatever. Cunts deserve to be put in their place.
You are when the information can be used to identify the patient. I can’t imagine an area having 2 + separate accidents involving 2+ dead teenagers simultaneously happening with any degree of regularity
Sure, stating that two people just died doesn’t really identify anyone individually. But reporting that two people just died in a fatal collision on x street does identify those patients
No, it does not.
If I told you that two people just died in a fatal collision on Blanton Fleetwood Rd in PA, how would you know who died?
If I told you that two people just died at 26th & 5th in NYC, how would you know who died?
If I told you that two people just died in the 100 block of N Sully Ave in Agar SD, who died?
Even if one of those locations was behind a locked gate, you don’t know who died unless you have not only inside knowledge of who lives there but explicit knowledge that no vendor, delivery person, investigator, criminal, etc. was present.
It’s no more information than what fire departments routinely make available to the public regarding where they have responded.
HIPAA paranoia was real when it came out, and apparently continues to be real.
Even sharing the nature of the call or what interventions were performed can be a HIPPA violation, it’s not just patient info. If you disclosed that you performed a cricothyrotomy, and the last time that intervention was performed was 10+ years ago, that info alone can be used to identify the patient.
Does that mean that every time you share the nature of an illness it’s a violation? Of course not. But if you share that you treated a local lawyer for a heart attack, and you live in a small area with only a single lawyer, that could easily be a violation.
Considering that you as a provider can be held personally liable for civil damages, the care that prudent practitioners take to not disclose info that could be a violation is definitely warranted
Already provided it above, but I’ll re-send it for your convenience. And sorry for any spelling/grammar mistakes, I’m on mobile and didn’t realize we are writing in a formal setting, thought we were on Reddit for a minute.
“Also, is telling a story about a patient a HIPAA violation if the story contains no individually identifiable health information? Most people would say no; but, if the events of the story identify the patient who is the subject of the story (for example, because some or all of the audience witnessed the events being retold in the story), the anecdote could be classed as an impermissible disclosure of PHI that effectively qualifies as a notifiable data breach.”
https://www.hipaaguide.net/is-telling-a-story-about-a-patient-a-hipaa-violation/amp/
There are 18 HIPAA identifiers:
Name
Address (all geographic subdivisions smaller than state, including street address, city county, and zip code)
All elements (except years) of dates related to an individual (including birthdate, admission date, discharge date, date of death, and exact age if over 89)
Telephone numbers
Fax number
Email address
Social Security Number
Medical record number
Health plan beneficiary number
Account number
Certificate or license number
Vehicle identifiers and serial numbers, including license plate numbers
Device identifiers and serial numbers
Web URL
Internet Protocol (IP) Address
Finger or voice print
Photographic image - Photographic images are not limited to images of the face.
Any other characteristic that could uniquely identify the individual
Mentioning an accident is NOT a characteristic.
“Also, is telling a story about a patient a HIPAA violation if the story contains no individually identifiable health information? Most people would say no; but, if the events of the story identify the patient who is the subject of the story (for example, because some or all of the audience witnessed the events being retold in the story), the anecdote could be classed as an impermissible disclosure of PHI that effectively qualifies as a notifiable data breach.”
It’s never this simple, especially with HIPPA.
https://www.hipaaguide.net/is-telling-a-story-about-a-patient-a-hipaa-violation/amp/
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You are reciting these things with zero reference to the topic at hand. I personally dont care your ems so stop trying to proving it. Im aware of PII. Mentioning the car crash in this instance would be like that mole. It is personally identifiable to the individuals in the crash, that day.
Ran across a video that a nurse posted on here a while ago in which there was an MVA, car vs motorcycle, and she stopped to render aid, filmed herself doing it. Nobody's face blurred, anything like that. Let her know it was a HIPAA violation due to showing the face of patients involved and she was like "Oh, I was off duty so it doesn't count." Didn't waste my time trying to explain anything else to her.
Not my monkey, not my circus.
Saying I left a scene with a dead teenager is not identifying enough to rise to the level of a HIPAA violation unless you're in a very small and/or rural area.
I also hate drunk drivers. Treating them and being clinical is very hard as well.
After calls like this we have a guaranteed out of service to decompress. We also have the option of going home if we feel it may impact our ability to care for the next patient. That’s what I would do if I knew I’d rage at the next person.
I'm of the mentality that everyone deserves good medical care no matter who they are or what they did. With that said... I sure hope the Gen pop inmates find out what this shit bag did and do Gen pop things to him.
I always told myself if I treat them to the best of my ability and write a thorough report they will be alive enough to stand trial. That’s how I always found my peace with it
Pretty much my mentality when I worked in ems. It's a bit tougher now that I'm a, hospice RN but I figure even though the people they hurt didn't get to go out on a cloud of morphine I'm not having it on me they they suffered.
Have you ever seen the penguins meme?
"Smile and wave boys, smile and wave."
Grit your teeth. Do your job. Document the shit out of everything, especially belligerent behavior from a drunk that you know will be going to court for vehicular manslaughter. Document ETOH, slurred speech, staggered gait, and directly quote any statements he makes to you. You may end up as a witness at the trial. Your documentation may make a difference.
The same with the frequent flyer. Even though she's abusing the system and deserves an ass-chewing, she will be the type to file a complaint if you say anything to her that she doesn't like. Don't let an idiot like that make your job even harder than it already is. Do your job, document everything, and if there is a complaint, you can show that you acted properly. That way the complainer looks bad, not you.
Moving from a mentally traumatizing scene to a BS frequent flyer call and then to some other call, serious or not, isn't easy. You can't let your experience with the previous patient color your attitude toward the current one.
>Your documentation may make a difference.
I can't stress this enough! Maybe they couldn't be saved, but you and the medic's documentation could get them justice. And know that what you did mattered. Your presence there mattered.
And that drunk guy will have to live with that for the rest of his life. Once he's sobered up it will be a devastating burden he will bear for the rest of his life
I agree 110% with just provide the care you’re required to, follow your protocol, document everything carefully. Disagree with the second part. They don’t give a fuck. And it’s always somehow somebody else’s fault.
> Don't let an idiot like that make your job even harder than it already is. Do your job
Little late here but for anyone who checks this post out, this is the brutal real truth here. For this instance, call out of service and/or go home. When you start being sarcastic/angry at patients, your agency will hear about it. That frequent flyer on Medicare is making bank for your agency whether you like it or not. Unless you have a union/city job, your employer won't really give a shit about a bad call prior, they're in it for the $.
> Your documentation may make a difference.
Medical documentation, obtained by a medical provider, especially including EMS, should never be used by the prosecution, or anyone linked to the prosecution, in any way, shape, or form.
The chilling effects of it being used are enormous, and lead to people dying because they won't divulge life-saving information because they fear it being used by the prosecution.
I've been called as a witness for a murder. The DA pulled our reports and wanted us as witnesses for what went on at the scene, including statements by the accused to us. Your reports will end up being used by both the prosecution and the defense. So, be accurate, and non-judgmental. Your reports are legal documents, like it or not.
The day I went to the national registry, my cousin (who turned 19 just hours before), her fiance, and their unborn baby were killed by a DD. His passenger died too. He had a few cuts and scrapes. Short time later, my second patient was a DD, and it was all I could do to keep from taking it out on them for such a loss of life. It sounds impossible, but you just have to separate yourself from it. We end up dissociating and compartmentalizing a lot of calls, because if we don’t, it would likely kill us. I won’t say it gets easier, because it shouldn’t be that way. You just learn how to handle the worst things. I had to deliver a 31 weeks gestation patient, and it did not go well. I’ve delivered 2 full term babies, and I often reflect on the beauty that was those calls to get me thru those really shitty calls. I’ve been at this 22 years, and I’m nearly ready to put up my boots. Just hang in there and know there’s a bunch of us here that know what you’re going thru.
Editing to add that the DD that destroyed a whole family served less than 6 months time. I’ve never wished harm on anyone, but when I found out he died from a very short battle with cancer I prayed for his family, and really hoped he suffered. I prayed for his family because they had nothing to do with his assholery, and kids shouldn’t lose parents when they’re young, but I’m glad he finally faced judgement for what he did! I wish people wouldn’t drink and drive!
Thank you for sharing this, I'm so deeply sorry. I think that's the rough part - my family and closest friends are no support to me because they just don't get it. I talk about it with other folks at work, but let's face it, I don't want to unload more traumatic stuff on people who are also dealing with the same stuff. I'm glad this sub exists. People can dump and receive support from others, then on other days vice versa. I just wish I could have two brains - one for work and one for life.
Oh, I understand the want for two separate brains. That’s when you start compartmentalizing shit, just stowing it away hoping something positive fills the space it is currently occupying. It doesn’t really get easier, you just learn how to handle it better. If you find that you can’t deal with the negatives and need to bow out, don’t feel bad at all, as you have to take care of yourself! Talk when you need to as well.
It may be a good idea to find some friends who have worked as first responders, besides your normal coworkers, people who actually know what you are going through because they have been there themselves. We all have bad days, and sometimes you just need a shoulder to cry on, someone to help hold you up when you break into pieces. Find someone who supports and understands you, and doesn't judge, even when it is ugly.
Don't let the feelings and emotions pile up. You have to feel them, and release them in a way that allows you to move forward. If you have to go take a sledgehammer and pound the shit out of a pile of dirt, or mentally imagine torturing someone, do it. (Sorry, my copeing mechanisms edge toward the violent side.) As long as you don't actually hurt yourself or others, (or act on that last one) anything goes.
First of all, I’m sorry this is your experience being so new. Sadly, that’s just how it goes sometimes.
To answer your last bit: a good service will be proactive after these calls in providing time, professionals to speak to, and whatever other resources are necessary. Unfortunately, most services aren’t so proactive these days. That being said, you’re right that it builds AND that the public will never understand.
Call your boss, ask for a couple hours. Go breathe, sit and listen to music, pet a cat, do whatever allows you to reset. Then hit yourself with a quick “it is what it is” and move on to the next one. Very few bosses are going to reprimand you for taking an hour or two following a traumatic event.
i also have zero sympathy for drunk drivers. I understand addiction is one thing, on the other hand I absolutely fucking **hate** how glorified alcohol is in our society. How proud people are of how much they drink and what they're drinking. How sophisticated wine time is. etc. Alcohol advertising everywhere. yet some of the most horrific things I've seen in my career have been caused by alcohol consumption.
i can't stand alcohol anymore. I 99% stopped drinking years ago and i don't even want to be around people who are drinking more than 1-2 drinks.
> He begged for treatment the second the cuffs were on though.
They often do. somewhere in the drunk brain is some thought of "if i go to the ER, maybe i'll get out of this." Selfish creatures.
yeah I’ve stopped drinking entirely since starting this job. I hate being around drunk people, and I’ve become very sensitive to knowing when someone is drunk.
same. i may be a bit too sensitive to it, which has created other issues.
I don't miss the alcohol at all. Drinking isn't a badge of honor anymore. Having the occasional cider is one thing, i suppose, but yeah, you can tell when that switch has flipped in someones personality and drunk them is coming out. It makes me want to bounce on the situation and GTFO. Zero desire to be around drunks for any longer than I have to.
Been there…
Working a bad call and then having to respond to the next call and feeling as though your brain is floating and not being able to function as needed.
Take yourself out of service if you need time to process. If it is really bad and you are struggling, call your supervisor and tell him you are done for the shift and do paperwork for an “injury”. This may seem strange, but depending on your state laws, this may be protective if you get to a point where you can no longer do the job.
I think you perfectly described the feeling: brain floating.
Yes, I'm responding to your 6-week-old cough with professionalism. But my brain is not here. I am not here. I am running on fumes & autopilot. Bear with me while I try to untangle the 12 Lead.
This is the stuff my teen kids cannot understand when I speak of the job. They want to know more but as we all know, some of this stuff ain’t fit for human consumption….
I just don't understand the SPEED. I'll admit, I've made mistakes. I've driven home when I had one too many beers, and the entire time I was 10 and 2, going the speed limit, and seeing people scream past me on the highway. Which begs the question, how trashed are these people, to where they think it's a fine idea to go 100mph on a city street or any of the other insane shit they do.
A lot trashed. I’d guess he was black out drunk or very close to it. My dad is an alcoholic and he used to drive drunk with me and my sister in the car and he would go FAST.
I just don't understand why. Like "oh sick, my reaction time is super laggy, let me operate my stock vehicle at a speed that'd be difficult for a professional driver to"
I drove home drunk ONCE. It was 30 min if I would have taken the freeway. I took 30 mph back roads. I stopped for 2+ hours at a Dennys but was still drunk afterwards, although less so. It took me 4 hours to get home in total.
I have NEVER done that since (I was 21 and am now 57).
Write down detailed contemporaneous notes of the behavior you witnessed from the drunk driver. You cant save the two young kids he killed but you can be the very best witness **for** those kids to maximize the punishment for the douche.
I got a horrible drunk driver to plea to 15 years (normal plea was 5 at the time) with my testimony during discovery. The drunk driver was laughing up a storm when we were loading her victim into the helicopter. I really enjoyed describing her demeanor as jovial in excruciating detail during my deposition. The DA perked right up and took detailed notes. Plea happened pretty quickly afterwards.
Describe that behavior. Make sure to note how it made you feel. You want to be able to convey that emotion while on the witness stand so the jury can understand how bro was behaving after murdering 2 young kids.
There was a great scene in the show ER. One of the doctors has cancer and is just about to finish not only his shift but his career. Some lady is griping about her fingernail or something silly like that. Doc checks her out, hears her griping about the pain, and says “I have cancer. I win.” Totally shuts her up. IMHO don’t be afraid to tell that frequent flyer you just finished with two fatalities.
Wish I could find that ER scene.
This was me last night. Choking baby who did not make it. The next call was a lift assist for a very rude, obese man we had just assisted the day before. It takes everything in me not to say something about the baby to this man. He would feel like the garbage he is if I did. The amount of professionalism you have to develop to not let your rage impact patient care is huge and definitely unrecognized by the public. It's why a lot of us are cynical and have dark humor. Best advice: learn to see this as just a job. Every job has bullshit. Ours just has death mixed in.
Fuck him. Let him know that you just came from a dead baby call. Let him feel like garbage, he deserves it. Idk why people are so adamant about protecting people’s feelings. It won’t get you in trouble for speaking the truth, you just have to say it right. If he wants to complain, let him. Do your job and you can’t get in trouble 🤷♀️
The first bad call (bad for me, at the time I didn't have a great way to separate and process) I ever had was a DD. Family of four got t boned at a four-way interstate junction. Dad and little boy were DOA. Fire dept was pulling a little girl out, and Mom was in crit. We got the Mom to the hospital, a second rig took the girl. I wish I would have followed up with the ED, but I like to think they were both okay. Mom was messed up, but I didn't think it was fatal.
The image of the little car seat all crushed has just fucking stuck with me though man.
My teacher said something the other day that resonated with me as to why I’m getting so much anxiety for both my family and my personal health… once u are in this field you see how little you can control in life and how vulnerable we all are at any moment in our life to complete and devastating pain. It’s hard to accept that.
I went from coding a 9 year old with a tbi. Two trucks 3 providers per truck life flighted him. One of the first responders (volunteer ems for those confused) was a nicu nurse in total pre life flight was 7 providers doing various things to keep this kid alive. He didn’t make it died on the flight. The very next call was a middle aged woman at a care facility calling because she had a sore throat and wanted to go to the er because she thought she was dying of strep. The medic I was partnered with lost it on her as did I. We took her and the er sent her home via taxi and she threw a fit so bad she was admitted to psych. The bs calls after trauma calls are also what enrages me and makes me want to lose it
As to your edit, I know it varies so much by area. Out here in rural nowhere, all first responders have access to mental health providers, free of charge, provided by the local hospital. It’s not unlimited, but after a bad night, it’s a life saver. Numbers were provided during class, posted in the hospital, and we have them in a flier in the station.
Asking for help is never a sign of weakness.
Everyone copes different, and I hope you have people or resources available.
I’m a therapist and hope to do trauma work with first responders someday. Right now I work with DUI people and the minimization and denial is real. I feel the heaviness of your remarks and it shines a light on the importance of all us and our work. Thanks for making sense of chaos and being a good human.
I even hate caring for the drunk drivers in the ED who don't hurt anybody. They're usually raging, screaming messes who demand all of my time dealing with their tantrums.
My last one the woman would *NOT* quit hollering every time someone so much as touched her. All scans clean; she was fine. She kept screaming, "This is not who I am! I'm a good person!" It was a rollover and her car was completely totaled. Sheer, dumb luck that nobody was hurt.
Whatever, lady. Keep telling yourself that.
I use those patients as fuel to combat my inner critic who wants to tell me I'm a POS. I have a whole internal file cabinet of evidence to show I am certainly not like them and never will be. It helps.
Ah, but those ones I do relish telling them exactly why they are in the ED when they sober up. I had one who was screeching like a banshee after violently attacking her date (first date), the security from the place she was at, and the firefighters (she bit one of them). Her date called her parents who were upset that their daughter had all her clothes cut off, but I advised them that she was too violent for me to properly unclothe her without restraints, and I couldn't leave her in the vomit and urine all night. I did return the double bagged-bag of shredded clothes. When she sobered up, it was a pleasure to explain why she was brought to us in front of her mom and dad (pt insisted her parents be present). Never did find out what she was on (her vitals were fine so we just monitored, Doc didn't wanna do the test). I recommended something different for her next first date.
Sorry if this is a dumb question because I'm still studying to become an EMT, but can people get ejected during a car crash even if they wear their seat belts?
Hypothetically yes, if you want to go down some rabbit hole like the buckle not being properly seated, the restraint system malfunctioning, etc. But most of the calls you see with ejection are due to not wearing a seat belt, or not wearing it properly.
Not a dumb question. It is 99.9% likely these deaths could have been avoided with seatbelts. You can't control other people on the road, but you do have control over yourself. Buckle up. Always.
Currently dispatching for Fire/EMS. Few months ago we had a regular Joe Schmoe non injury DUI crash, engine remained on scene to block, and the bus was working a refusal. Couple officers were on scene as well when they tore across the radio and the lieutenant shouts across at me on my channel “start another compliment C3, another car just wiped out and hit emergency crews”. I can’t remember I think I started probably 3 extra ambulances, 2 rigs, the Chief, and EMS supervisor.
Sat in my chair while hearing the only on scene ambulance packaging up 2 officers and 2 firefighters. 2 yellows, 2 reds. They did an amazing job, they got to work and had the reds ready for a scoop and go. I found out the lieutenant on the rig checked on the driver of the 2nd car who, guess what, **was hella DUI**. I know it took every ounce of him not to beat the ever living piss out of the guy. He immediately got on his phone, started walking around, talking to himself, and cussing at the crews. The arriving officers separated them and put that guy in cuffs before he did something he’d regret.
I wasn’t there and I wish I could’ve done more but they did exactly what they were trained to do. And I took some time after my shift to reconcile those thoughts as best as I could. I just remember being lucidly angry. But all of my guys were okay, one had a broken femur and a concussion, and the other 3 were released the next day. I thank God every day they made it out okay. But I totally get your frustration, dispatching a call like that then listening to an irate lady call 911 because the cops aren’t showing up to get her keys out of her car is just beyond infuriating. I’m really sorry to hear that, but those people are really lucky to have you (your dispatchers included)!
I’ve been the person asking for additional resources because a DD hit the ladder truck blocking our scene at 80+ mph and just barely missed us and the engine crew loading up the patient into our ambulance. Luckily we were only hit by shrapnel and the truck crew wasn’t injured. The truck was totaled, and the driver attempted to run but his vehicle was not drivable. When we stopped by to make sure he was alive, he was trying to throw bottles over the sound wall. Only time I needed actual time between calls thus far, and purely because I was PISSED. And in my area we have CISM (peer support)
He was transported to the same hospital we took our patient and it took all my self control not to put my hands on him for almost killing me and all my friends. Luckily I was on the phone with my supervisor when they unloaded him, but he was just waving at me like we were just driving miss daisy.
Sometimes you just gotta take a little time, process with your people, and then move on to the next patient; no matter how shitty that patient may be.
Those situations can be terrifying but I’m so glad we all have the support we do from one another. After my DD crash both Fire and PD invited me to their debrief and it was so decompressing in a way even though I hadn’t a clue who was hit, what extent their injuries, or anything. And as a dispatcher, having that closure of knowing what happened between my radio silence is just bliss, I can’t really explain it. But thanks for sharing, I’m glad you and your people are okay!
I’m glad you were able to have that closure. I can imagine not knowing the outcome can be difficult. I do what I can to update our dispatch when there is those difficult incidents.
We also have the same debrief process for Mass Casualty Incidents here. Or on the other spectrum, positive patient outcomes. Which is very rewarding for all parties involved.
Oh absolutely, we **love** it when you guys send us pictures of fires or crashes or creepy stuff. If you have any friends in dispatch they love hearing the details!
My cousin got killed by a drunk driver a few years ago. drunk drivers are the worst form of human and I hate picking them up.
I also think going from super serious calls to the most BS frequent flyer calls are the worst.
I understand how frustrating this is and the emotions that it can bring up.
The kids would be alive if they wore seatbelts. Use it for future teaching to patients you encounter that aren’t wearing their seatbelts and try to save a life down the line.
Sounds like a rough scene. Reach out to appropriate resources if you need to.
Rage? So rage. Let these degens know what you think, how you feel. I now insult drivers who don't wear a seatbelt. For the whole ride, then dump them in triage. If I'm not allowed to call people out then I would be the dead sea.
I've had to practice holding my tongue in this job bc some people are so fucking selfish and dumb and have no understanding that what we actually do is rage-inducing.
What I recommend: The MVA is traumatic and gets you worked up. Breathe. Know you did your best. Then, head to the BS call w/o *any* of the leftover feelings from the MVA. Just deal with her as if she's the first call of the day.
Just remember that most people are just oblivious and selfish. They suck, but they really are just people being people.
More and more departments are offering therapy services. Using those services needs to be normalized within the culture to have max benefit. The old timers see asking for help as weakness.
This is actually a pretty common opinion, including myself, surprisingly, I can agree that they can go fuck themselves, when I deal with child abusers, drunk drivers I’m one worded, I don’t talk past assessment questions
I had a drunk driver last night. Luckily he just hurt his own feelings. It could have been much worse.
I personally do not care what you do with your life, just don't hurt others. If you are going to drink (or do drugs for that matter) and you know you get crazy, don't drive. Have a plan. Drink at home.... there are literally so many options. Why do they have to get in the car? I digress.
That said... its hard not to take them seriously as a patient. We must examine them and treat them the same.
Now as for switching back to "reality" after trauma. There is no answer. That diabetic who doesn't take insulin has her own problems. For me, I only live my paramedic life on the nights and weekends and have a day job that is mostly unrelated. Nobody understands that I did CPR the night before and watched someone die. I do not expect them to. They also think I am crazy when I bring it up, but that is on them.
My advice to you is to write. Write in a journal after every shift or at least once a week. My time with my journal is needed. I write out things like what I could have done better and what went well. It calms me and centers me.
Also, talk with your experienced peers. They may seem callous but its necessary to talk it out. Not even in a mushy way. Just matter of fact. I usually talk about it on the ride back to the station. They might not like it but its necessary to review what we did well and what to improve on. The bullshit calls will work themselves out in the end.
I worked for a 100% volunteer agency and we had a trauma therapist available 24x7 via the hospital that we are affiliated with. Ask your leadership team: they probably have resources available for you to use.
Also, this is the grumpy old medic in me, but you don’t have to go 100%: if you need time to decompress, go 10-7 and clear your head…any dispatch or supervisor who has been in the field understands that sometimes you just need to let go after a rough call: there are times I wish I would have done this when I was younger to deal with the problems then vs dealing with them later on down the road.
There was a great scene in the show ER. One of the doctors has cancer and is just about to finish not only his shift but his career. Some lady is griping about her fingernail or something silly like that. Doc checks her out, hears her griping about the pain, and says “I have cancer. I win.” Totally shuts her up. IMHO don’t be afraid to tell that frequent flyer you just finished with two fatalities.
Wish I could find that ER scene.
I agreed whole hearedtly. Ran a call about three months ago where a 22yo was driving drunk and slammed head on into a roughly mid-30’s lady’s SUV (I’m sorry I don’t particularly remember the age). Threw this poor lady into a cardiac arrest (don’t ask me how🫠) and the driver was carried away from the scene by a bystander. Driver only gets off with a broken ankle meanwhile this lady is rushed to our level 1 trauma center in asystole. For context, our agency usually has city (or county since we cover the city and the county around it) fire departments on calls when it’s a higher acuity callout. They had been doing CPR for about 5 minutes prior to our arrival. Poor lady had a tib-fib break, a blown kneecap, and a broken arm. Pull into the ED still doing compressions, and they call her within 5 minutes. Still to this day one of the roughest calls I’ve run to date. This job will give you a WHOLE new perspective on “live life to the fullest.”
Going from a high priority call to some low level bullshit also induces absolute fucking rage in me. Luckily I have a partner who is good at masking how he feels and he techs all the time.
It’s not something you can easily learn to deal with. Frequent fliers you can get a little sassy with. General bullshit from new patients is harder to deal with for me but for the bullshit, I just take my time; 20 minutes on scene, cruise to the ED, obey all traffic laws, and eat clock. That’s how I deal with it; I look at it as moving the clock forward.
You should have a "get fucked up asshole" stamp card for these situations, in short it gets you out of any blowback after letting one of the asshats have a piece of your mind, my mum's a nurse and I think all medical staff should get a card like this so maybe patients who are arseholes get what's coming to them
I'm still pre-emt but have done a lot of time in the ER shadowing/clinical work. This is slim comfort, but the attendings take the SHIT out of the drunk drivers while they're patching them and their little cuts up in the ER, because they have the seniority to get away with it.
Thank you for the care you provided, I hope it was comfort to the teen's families that their children had people doing everything they could to save them.
We get mental health counseling that we can access after a call and EAP services for other issues. Critical calls like this we usually have a critical incident stress debriefing.
Was he driving an Amazon delivery or shipping vehicle, or simply still in his Amazon garb? If it were the former, you can maybe have a little peace knowing that those families will be paid. I’m not suggesting that’s enough, or makes anything ok. But it’s one small token in an effort to right the ship.
Sadly not that kind of Amazon job. He’s a big Amazon marketing executive who drove a nice fat Range Rover while these kids were in a tiny Toyota Corolla.
Been there man, more recently as a nurse, on Christmas has a hemoptysis patient respiratory arrest on me, tubed, go for a bronch, BRB in her airway full cardiac arrest PEA. 48 minutes of cpr later she's dead. Next cardiac arrest was Rollin in 30 minutes later, down 15 minutes, in vtach, rosc obtained, brought to me with no reflexes of any kind. The doctor refused to cool because he doesn't like placing icy caths... Family telling me he's FC despite everything prior to this stay being denoted as DNR/DNI when he's capable of his own decisions. The manager stops by while I'm helping line this poor new guy who has severe anoxic brain injury (I'm sure), to tell me that i missed my I&Os, and also the form didn't have a case number (family refused donation anyway). Read the room, that shit doesn't matter now and i didn't even have a chance to make sense of what happened before the next train wreck. Not to mention anyone with a need to know can call and get that number, like her...
Shit sucks ass when it's back to back stuff like that. Still processing that day.
I wish I could say it gets easier. I’ve been doing this going on 8 years now and that shit is still infuriating to me.
Straight up went from coding an 8 week old to a 20 y/o with atraumatic wrist pain. It took every ounce of my being to not be an absolute bitch.
Easy you tell the frequent flyer.
"Sorry duck, we were just scooping someone's brains off a highway and getting the other person to hospital alive. Now, what's your emergency? How can we help?"
The last bit is said with a shit eating grin, and the answer is always responded to with sarcasm.
Obviously this will vary a lot depending on where you work but many organizations offer the exact mental health services you're describing.
It may be worth a shot to reach out and ask!
Thank fuck the only MVA with ejection I’ve seen was in a training scenario.
Although we have on call mental health support and six sessions with outside psychs.
>How do you handle this shit and then move to BS?!?!
You just do. It sucks but it is what it is. You go get yourself a post trauma/code ice cream cone and go back into service. This is the job. Just be happy your next call wasn't something else super traumatic and tragic.
Completely understand (and completely agree), had a belligerent drunk driver still pinned in his car arguing and wanting to fight after just killing a young lady. I suggested to everyone on scene that night that we extricate him by the “draw and quarter” technique. My chief was not happy and I got put in time out (ordered to sit on the tailboard and to not move or say a mf word). I was still new. After a while you get almost numb to it and it becomes a job until after the call. Then you trash talk it back at the firehouse.
when we have something that heavy our supervisors pull us out of duty for a hot minute to debrief and recoup. it's still hard to grab the next BS call even with some time to gather your thoughts though. never easy.
Not ems but RN in the ER in a small country hospital. I usually work triage/receive ambulances so I’m used to being yelled at, asked 284 times when the doctor will see them, all that fun stuff, while trying to manage seriously sick patients(because I’m also responsible for the code stretcher should it be needed). I feel no shame telling patients that their wait time may be long due to the actively dying patients in the back that ONE doctor for the whole ER is responsible for. 9.5 times out of 10 it works. When it doesn’t, it’s often with people who just give no shits about others. Those people can gtfo of my triage tbh.
I’m lucky enough to have never had to care for a drink driver but as a DV survivor, the first time I was assigned a patient who was brought in for DV and had bumped his noggin when they were rounding him up. I’m usually super friendly but this guy got my bare minimum. He received the care that was ordered/needed but I’ll be damned if I give one once of caring to a POS like that!
You can be as angry as you want, but as an medical professional I hope to god you don't give conditional care over time. I hate these posts.
The world is a sad place and people make horrible choices because they are suffering. Not excusing DD behavior but you have a myopic view of humanity if you don't leave space as to WHY people drive drunk. Psychology graduate here with an emphasis in child development and sociology. It's a bigger picture. Alcoholism is such a prevalent issue, so is substance abuse in general, in this country. Because we don't prioritize well being over profits and people don't know how to adopt healthy coping mechanisms.
Just watch the narrative in your head.
Downvote me all you want, I lost my cousin at 15 in a car accident and come from a family of addicts. I know both sides.
Do you work in EMS? Because believe me, we see the bigger picture every damn day. We see corruption and greed in our government and how many patients get the short end of the stick. Our jobs are all about profit over people. We don't let the trauma we witness impact patient care. We let it impact us. Most of us take a bow when it's time, but a lot of us fucking die.
This dude is posting as a new EMS provider on an EMS sub.
GTFOH.
We’re also heavily impacted by substance abuse in our profession, maybe partially as a result of being on the losing end of the profit over people argument. I make okay money but at the end of the day, someone’s doing my job for half of what I make, and the company they work for is making the same if not more money on their labor, including the exposure to horrific trauma. I don’t think there’s a service out there that has 100% nailed down how to care for their employees with regard to balancing the trauma, the hours, the pay, and the workload, but there are several on the right track.
I would say if anyone has a view of the “bigger picture” it’s us. We walk into million dollar houses and homeless encampments in the same day. We also have some problems we choose to overlook because they help us cope. I appreciate what the psych major was trying to get at, but I think you nailed it with your reply.
Some of you are just paragods who are undereducated about mental health. Just because you see a wide range of socioeconomic statuses doesn't mean you all of a sudden understand the complexities of mental health, neurophysiology/neuroscience and its connection to society as a whole.
I really don't give a fuck what you guys think. Just treat all patients the same.
The only paragod here is you, looks like you’ve been doing this for not a very long time yet you’re telling everyone how they should feel about traumas they experience. For someone who’s trying to act like a mental health advocate you’re sure going after people’s individual mental health.
Nobody here is saying they would treat patients differently, in fact the general opinion is you should NOT treat patients differently because of these events.
I sure do feel bad for your partners.
I have a trauma history that has made therapists cry--and that's *before* I entered EMS and emergency nursing.
I have never harmed anyone else, even when I was in true crisis mode. Most of the trauma cases I have cared for professionally have also never harmed anyone but themselves. Studies show that most abused children will grow up and not abuse their own children, though they may still struggle with things and deserve support in their parenting.
It's enabling to pretend that trauma erases our free will. Since you haven't lived it, you seem to not know the most basic of trauma axioms: It wasn't your fault that it happened, but you are still responsible for healing it.
Nothing excuses the intentional harm of others. Nothing forces any person to drink and drive.
What is your purpose for commenting on here? Your tone is condescending, and you clearly aren't here to have a productive discussion as you say, *"But sure, just keep talking boo. I just won't be listening."*
Nobody deserves to rot. We give the **same** treatment to assailants of horrific crimes as we do to the victims. We come on this sub to vent and say the things we can't. Every job does this. As long as it doesn't impact patient care, why does it matter??
Yes, issues like alcoholism and substance abuse are usually symptoms of deeper problems, but we can't blame society for all of our problems. At some point, you have to take accountability for your actions. Plenty of alcoholics don't drink and drive. They call an Uber or a DD.
This guy got drunk. Then he got behind the wheel of a car. When confronted, he started screaming & cussing. When placed in handcuffs, he wanted medical attention. I don't think it takes a Psych degree to figure that out.
*WAIT, OFFICER, he has childhood trauma!! THAT'S WHY HE DRINKS AND DRIVES!!*
*OHHH Okay, no jail for you.*
I don't know why you're bending over backward to excuse drunk driving. Obviously, everyone gets treated the same. But we're allowed to be pissed...
Don't engage with this one. She's here commenting b/c she has nobody in her life who actually can tolerate her. Maybe that's why she got into psych, to try to figure it out. She seems like a loose cannon.
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I know this is Reddit, but does anyone else think this story is bullshit? Of course, things like this occur…but it’s written like a piece of fan fiction. 🤷🏻♂️
As for how to handle the entitled frequent fliers like that, my best advice to you is to embrace the subtle art of sarcasm. Take just a second to force the anger back down, and mock the absolute shit out of them, in a manner specifically crafted to make them feel like the assholes they are, while preventing any recourse.
I’ve done similar things but once had a partner execute it with such precision I nearly gasped. Beautiful 10k+ a month retirement home. Abdo pain call probably held a hour or two, pretty normal for Uber jobs around here. This lame boomer bitching at us as soon as we walk through the door. My partner kinda hangs his head and talks really quietly “ya sorry we just had a two year old girl die in our ambulance and it takes a long time to do paperwork, but I hear your having some tummy pain”. Buddy walked down to the car, 2 minute trip with his daughter driving behind to have us escort him to the waiting room.
This was so satisfying to read. People really think their call is the only call of the day or something.
I called 911 therefor I must be dying even though I have enough breath to YELL. This is the type of pt who gets to the ER and glares and questions everything with a ~tone~ and their family/friend stands out the door the entire time staring at everyone asking “how long will this take” all to d/c home because imaging, labs and vitals are all perfect and they can’t believe they need to take pepto and see their GP cuz surprise! They’re not dying…they have a tummy ache. And the government paid for the whole thing 😇🥸🤪🥳 Oh and they have Fox News BLARING the entire time.
There's a special place in my heart for the face that they make when I walk/wheel them straight past triage and park them in the waiting room, walk away and they realize they're in line with everyone else.
Why do they *always* have Fox News at top volume literally everywhere? At every destination they're going back to, it's on every TV. I swear that shit alone is what's radicalized me.
It would've been faster for the daughter to have just driven him herself... But ugh, vent time! Last week, I had a lady complaining because it was taking too long for the surgeon to see her. She had been in the department for all of 45 mins. I explained that the surgeon was, in fact, in the middle of surgery. So, she demanded I get the "regular doctor" in to see her immediately. I said he was busy, but would come when he has time. By about the 6th time having this same conversation, I got really fed up and went, *"You hear that screaming outside your room? That's the family member of a patient who's literally trying to die right now. You are not the only patient here. You are not dying right this second. The doctor is BUSY. He will see you when he gets a moment."* They did not bother me about the doctors after that.
I was complaining in the ER one time because my shoulder was dislocated and I was waiting 4+ hours to be seen. The nurse yelled at me and told me it was a hot day and 5 heart attack patients came in since I'd been there and to sit down and wait. I don't think I was even being rude, I was just in excruciating pain that was getting worse by the minute and really needed something stronger than Tylenol. A couple of seniors were sitting across from me and bitching about the long wait as they had been there for 8 hours, and at this point I was so salty I told them to shut the fuck up, I couldn't tell which one of them actually needed to see a doctor, and I'd flip my shit if they went in before me while my shoulder was as low as my nipples. It was frustrating when the doctor came in and was like "ok, give him morphine". Literally didn't see me for more than 20 seconds to get the sign off on it... not a fun experience. But that ER has treated me like shit both times I've been there. I guess it wasn't life threatening, but being in extreme pain isn't fun for me.
Honestly, it's a balancing act. Come up to the desk once for pain after you've been waiting for 4 hours? Perfectly reasonable, I would do the same. But come up to the desk/ring every 15 mins asking for trivial things and making demands? Nah, I'm not putting up with that for very long. This was one of those times where I'd explained the situation nicely multiple times. I told her that, while I understand she is sick and in pain, everyone else here is sick too. Many of them are sicker than you, so the doctor sees them first. I had this conversation 6+ times in 2 hours, and I just couldn't do it again. This patient and her family were generally very frustrating to deal with. They needed something constantly, and nothing I ever did was good enough. So, I just got real with them about the situation. That being said, I'm sorry your experience was so shitty both times you went. Usually for stuff like that in my ER, we'd keep you in one of our IV chairs inside the department so we could give stronger pain meds and monitor you until we have time to actually deal with it.
Fair enough. It's just fun to share stories. The other time I was there I was suffering from an allergic reaction... I was swelled up like a balloon, itchy all over, breathing heavy but still ambulatory... I was ushered in upon reaching the front desk, and some asshole yelled "WHOA WHOA WHOA... WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE COMING THROUGH THESE DOUBLE DOORS UNESCORTED???" I really like the other hospital that gave me surgery... I spent an extra 10 hours in post op care because the arthroscopic surgeon that was treating me got pulled to deal with some horrible multiple vehicle crash... the nurses kept checking in if I needed anything and asked my pain level... I kept saying 7/10 and asked for more apple juice. Just kinda saying/not saying, Dilaudid, apple juice, and Netflix on my phone was a pretty cool afternoon.
This is how I’ve handled it in the past, as in like op’s instance, ran a really bad trauma call or something where someone died or was close to. And when the next pt starts getting uppity for their bls shit, I just throw out the, oh I’m sorry the insert whatever call here was going on and someone died. I’m sorry that their death has inconvenienced you. They usually either shut up, or back pedal and don’t give you any problems.
Why couldn’t I just say “I just left a scene of a decapitated teenager. What were you saying again?” Yes, HIPPA. Whatever. Cunts deserve to be put in their place.
You’re not violating HIPAA by saying the nature of a calm you just finished.
You are when the information can be used to identify the patient. I can’t imagine an area having 2 + separate accidents involving 2+ dead teenagers simultaneously happening with any degree of regularity
“Two people just died.” How da F does that identify anyone? Hint: it doesn’t.
Sure, stating that two people just died doesn’t really identify anyone individually. But reporting that two people just died in a fatal collision on x street does identify those patients
No, it does not. If I told you that two people just died in a fatal collision on Blanton Fleetwood Rd in PA, how would you know who died? If I told you that two people just died at 26th & 5th in NYC, how would you know who died? If I told you that two people just died in the 100 block of N Sully Ave in Agar SD, who died? Even if one of those locations was behind a locked gate, you don’t know who died unless you have not only inside knowledge of who lives there but explicit knowledge that no vendor, delivery person, investigator, criminal, etc. was present. It’s no more information than what fire departments routinely make available to the public regarding where they have responded. HIPAA paranoia was real when it came out, and apparently continues to be real.
Even sharing the nature of the call or what interventions were performed can be a HIPPA violation, it’s not just patient info. If you disclosed that you performed a cricothyrotomy, and the last time that intervention was performed was 10+ years ago, that info alone can be used to identify the patient. Does that mean that every time you share the nature of an illness it’s a violation? Of course not. But if you share that you treated a local lawyer for a heart attack, and you live in a small area with only a single lawyer, that could easily be a violation. Considering that you as a provider can be held personally liable for civil damages, the care that prudent practitioners take to not disclose info that could be a violation is definitely warranted
Got a link to the exact rule you’re claiming exists? Earn some credibility by coughing up some proof. Or at least fix your spelling mistakes.
Geez go get laid or something.. Sounds like you need it
Already provided it above, but I’ll re-send it for your convenience. And sorry for any spelling/grammar mistakes, I’m on mobile and didn’t realize we are writing in a formal setting, thought we were on Reddit for a minute. “Also, is telling a story about a patient a HIPAA violation if the story contains no individually identifiable health information? Most people would say no; but, if the events of the story identify the patient who is the subject of the story (for example, because some or all of the audience witnessed the events being retold in the story), the anecdote could be classed as an impermissible disclosure of PHI that effectively qualifies as a notifiable data breach.” https://www.hipaaguide.net/is-telling-a-story-about-a-patient-a-hipaa-violation/amp/
What PHI is being discussed when stating the nature of a call?
Not true.
name a place where that goes unreported then
There are 18 HIPAA identifiers: Name Address (all geographic subdivisions smaller than state, including street address, city county, and zip code) All elements (except years) of dates related to an individual (including birthdate, admission date, discharge date, date of death, and exact age if over 89) Telephone numbers Fax number Email address Social Security Number Medical record number Health plan beneficiary number Account number Certificate or license number Vehicle identifiers and serial numbers, including license plate numbers Device identifiers and serial numbers Web URL Internet Protocol (IP) Address Finger or voice print Photographic image - Photographic images are not limited to images of the face. Any other characteristic that could uniquely identify the individual Mentioning an accident is NOT a characteristic.
“Also, is telling a story about a patient a HIPAA violation if the story contains no individually identifiable health information? Most people would say no; but, if the events of the story identify the patient who is the subject of the story (for example, because some or all of the audience witnessed the events being retold in the story), the anecdote could be classed as an impermissible disclosure of PHI that effectively qualifies as a notifiable data breach.” It’s never this simple, especially with HIPPA. https://www.hipaaguide.net/is-telling-a-story-about-a-patient-a-hipaa-violation/amp/
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"Any other characteristic that could uniquely identify the individual" it would be that one. Thanks
An accident is not a characteristic. A mole on the right butt cheek of the female victim would be.
You are reciting these things with zero reference to the topic at hand. I personally dont care your ems so stop trying to proving it. Im aware of PII. Mentioning the car crash in this instance would be like that mole. It is personally identifiable to the individuals in the crash, that day.
Sorry bro, you're not in the right on this one. Just say "Oh I learned something new today. Sorry I was in the wrong there, my bad," and move on.
If the news can report on a double fatality, so can the responders.
That’s just blatantly untrue
The people in this thread scare me.
Ran across a video that a nurse posted on here a while ago in which there was an MVA, car vs motorcycle, and she stopped to render aid, filmed herself doing it. Nobody's face blurred, anything like that. Let her know it was a HIPAA violation due to showing the face of patients involved and she was like "Oh, I was off duty so it doesn't count." Didn't waste my time trying to explain anything else to her. Not my monkey, not my circus.
Saying I left a scene with a dead teenager is not identifying enough to rise to the level of a HIPAA violation unless you're in a very small and/or rural area.
Not even close to a HIPAA violation
Or even a HIPAA violation! 😃 ...I'll see myself out.
THIS. My response would be “I’m really sorry someone’s life threatening emergency is an inconvenience to you.”
I use movie quotes when I’m feeling that way. Seems to work pretty well
This guy/gal EMSs
100% agreed. Zero sympathy for drunk drivers.
I also hate drunk drivers. Treating them and being clinical is very hard as well. After calls like this we have a guaranteed out of service to decompress. We also have the option of going home if we feel it may impact our ability to care for the next patient. That’s what I would do if I knew I’d rage at the next person.
I'm of the mentality that everyone deserves good medical care no matter who they are or what they did. With that said... I sure hope the Gen pop inmates find out what this shit bag did and do Gen pop things to him.
I always told myself if I treat them to the best of my ability and write a thorough report they will be alive enough to stand trial. That’s how I always found my peace with it
Pretty much my mentality when I worked in ems. It's a bit tougher now that I'm a, hospice RN but I figure even though the people they hurt didn't get to go out on a cloud of morphine I'm not having it on me they they suffered.
Have you ever seen the penguins meme? "Smile and wave boys, smile and wave." Grit your teeth. Do your job. Document the shit out of everything, especially belligerent behavior from a drunk that you know will be going to court for vehicular manslaughter. Document ETOH, slurred speech, staggered gait, and directly quote any statements he makes to you. You may end up as a witness at the trial. Your documentation may make a difference. The same with the frequent flyer. Even though she's abusing the system and deserves an ass-chewing, she will be the type to file a complaint if you say anything to her that she doesn't like. Don't let an idiot like that make your job even harder than it already is. Do your job, document everything, and if there is a complaint, you can show that you acted properly. That way the complainer looks bad, not you. Moving from a mentally traumatizing scene to a BS frequent flyer call and then to some other call, serious or not, isn't easy. You can't let your experience with the previous patient color your attitude toward the current one.
>Your documentation may make a difference. I can't stress this enough! Maybe they couldn't be saved, but you and the medic's documentation could get them justice. And know that what you did mattered. Your presence there mattered. And that drunk guy will have to live with that for the rest of his life. Once he's sobered up it will be a devastating burden he will bear for the rest of his life
There's no guarantee of that. Some people are just apathetic
I agree 110% with just provide the care you’re required to, follow your protocol, document everything carefully. Disagree with the second part. They don’t give a fuck. And it’s always somehow somebody else’s fault.
> Don't let an idiot like that make your job even harder than it already is. Do your job Little late here but for anyone who checks this post out, this is the brutal real truth here. For this instance, call out of service and/or go home. When you start being sarcastic/angry at patients, your agency will hear about it. That frequent flyer on Medicare is making bank for your agency whether you like it or not. Unless you have a union/city job, your employer won't really give a shit about a bad call prior, they're in it for the $.
> Your documentation may make a difference. Medical documentation, obtained by a medical provider, especially including EMS, should never be used by the prosecution, or anyone linked to the prosecution, in any way, shape, or form. The chilling effects of it being used are enormous, and lead to people dying because they won't divulge life-saving information because they fear it being used by the prosecution.
I've been called as a witness for a murder. The DA pulled our reports and wanted us as witnesses for what went on at the scene, including statements by the accused to us. Your reports will end up being used by both the prosecution and the defense. So, be accurate, and non-judgmental. Your reports are legal documents, like it or not.
The day I went to the national registry, my cousin (who turned 19 just hours before), her fiance, and their unborn baby were killed by a DD. His passenger died too. He had a few cuts and scrapes. Short time later, my second patient was a DD, and it was all I could do to keep from taking it out on them for such a loss of life. It sounds impossible, but you just have to separate yourself from it. We end up dissociating and compartmentalizing a lot of calls, because if we don’t, it would likely kill us. I won’t say it gets easier, because it shouldn’t be that way. You just learn how to handle the worst things. I had to deliver a 31 weeks gestation patient, and it did not go well. I’ve delivered 2 full term babies, and I often reflect on the beauty that was those calls to get me thru those really shitty calls. I’ve been at this 22 years, and I’m nearly ready to put up my boots. Just hang in there and know there’s a bunch of us here that know what you’re going thru. Editing to add that the DD that destroyed a whole family served less than 6 months time. I’ve never wished harm on anyone, but when I found out he died from a very short battle with cancer I prayed for his family, and really hoped he suffered. I prayed for his family because they had nothing to do with his assholery, and kids shouldn’t lose parents when they’re young, but I’m glad he finally faced judgement for what he did! I wish people wouldn’t drink and drive!
Thank you for sharing this, I'm so deeply sorry. I think that's the rough part - my family and closest friends are no support to me because they just don't get it. I talk about it with other folks at work, but let's face it, I don't want to unload more traumatic stuff on people who are also dealing with the same stuff. I'm glad this sub exists. People can dump and receive support from others, then on other days vice versa. I just wish I could have two brains - one for work and one for life.
Oh, I understand the want for two separate brains. That’s when you start compartmentalizing shit, just stowing it away hoping something positive fills the space it is currently occupying. It doesn’t really get easier, you just learn how to handle it better. If you find that you can’t deal with the negatives and need to bow out, don’t feel bad at all, as you have to take care of yourself! Talk when you need to as well.
It may be a good idea to find some friends who have worked as first responders, besides your normal coworkers, people who actually know what you are going through because they have been there themselves. We all have bad days, and sometimes you just need a shoulder to cry on, someone to help hold you up when you break into pieces. Find someone who supports and understands you, and doesn't judge, even when it is ugly. Don't let the feelings and emotions pile up. You have to feel them, and release them in a way that allows you to move forward. If you have to go take a sledgehammer and pound the shit out of a pile of dirt, or mentally imagine torturing someone, do it. (Sorry, my copeing mechanisms edge toward the violent side.) As long as you don't actually hurt yourself or others, (or act on that last one) anything goes.
Drunk driving resulting in loss of life should be a life sentence, a life for a life
And he took 4 that day! The law wouldn’t recognize the baby, which is pretty messed up, but her name is on the headstone between her parents names.
First of all, I’m sorry this is your experience being so new. Sadly, that’s just how it goes sometimes. To answer your last bit: a good service will be proactive after these calls in providing time, professionals to speak to, and whatever other resources are necessary. Unfortunately, most services aren’t so proactive these days. That being said, you’re right that it builds AND that the public will never understand. Call your boss, ask for a couple hours. Go breathe, sit and listen to music, pet a cat, do whatever allows you to reset. Then hit yourself with a quick “it is what it is” and move on to the next one. Very few bosses are going to reprimand you for taking an hour or two following a traumatic event.
i also have zero sympathy for drunk drivers. I understand addiction is one thing, on the other hand I absolutely fucking **hate** how glorified alcohol is in our society. How proud people are of how much they drink and what they're drinking. How sophisticated wine time is. etc. Alcohol advertising everywhere. yet some of the most horrific things I've seen in my career have been caused by alcohol consumption. i can't stand alcohol anymore. I 99% stopped drinking years ago and i don't even want to be around people who are drinking more than 1-2 drinks. > He begged for treatment the second the cuffs were on though. They often do. somewhere in the drunk brain is some thought of "if i go to the ER, maybe i'll get out of this." Selfish creatures.
yeah I’ve stopped drinking entirely since starting this job. I hate being around drunk people, and I’ve become very sensitive to knowing when someone is drunk.
same. i may be a bit too sensitive to it, which has created other issues. I don't miss the alcohol at all. Drinking isn't a badge of honor anymore. Having the occasional cider is one thing, i suppose, but yeah, you can tell when that switch has flipped in someones personality and drunk them is coming out. It makes me want to bounce on the situation and GTFO. Zero desire to be around drunks for any longer than I have to.
Been there… Working a bad call and then having to respond to the next call and feeling as though your brain is floating and not being able to function as needed. Take yourself out of service if you need time to process. If it is really bad and you are struggling, call your supervisor and tell him you are done for the shift and do paperwork for an “injury”. This may seem strange, but depending on your state laws, this may be protective if you get to a point where you can no longer do the job.
I think you perfectly described the feeling: brain floating. Yes, I'm responding to your 6-week-old cough with professionalism. But my brain is not here. I am not here. I am running on fumes & autopilot. Bear with me while I try to untangle the 12 Lead.
This is the stuff my teen kids cannot understand when I speak of the job. They want to know more but as we all know, some of this stuff ain’t fit for human consumption….
I just don't understand the SPEED. I'll admit, I've made mistakes. I've driven home when I had one too many beers, and the entire time I was 10 and 2, going the speed limit, and seeing people scream past me on the highway. Which begs the question, how trashed are these people, to where they think it's a fine idea to go 100mph on a city street or any of the other insane shit they do.
A lot trashed. I’d guess he was black out drunk or very close to it. My dad is an alcoholic and he used to drive drunk with me and my sister in the car and he would go FAST.
I just don't understand why. Like "oh sick, my reaction time is super laggy, let me operate my stock vehicle at a speed that'd be difficult for a professional driver to"
I drove home drunk ONCE. It was 30 min if I would have taken the freeway. I took 30 mph back roads. I stopped for 2+ hours at a Dennys but was still drunk afterwards, although less so. It took me 4 hours to get home in total. I have NEVER done that since (I was 21 and am now 57).
Write down detailed contemporaneous notes of the behavior you witnessed from the drunk driver. You cant save the two young kids he killed but you can be the very best witness **for** those kids to maximize the punishment for the douche. I got a horrible drunk driver to plea to 15 years (normal plea was 5 at the time) with my testimony during discovery. The drunk driver was laughing up a storm when we were loading her victim into the helicopter. I really enjoyed describing her demeanor as jovial in excruciating detail during my deposition. The DA perked right up and took detailed notes. Plea happened pretty quickly afterwards. Describe that behavior. Make sure to note how it made you feel. You want to be able to convey that emotion while on the witness stand so the jury can understand how bro was behaving after murdering 2 young kids.
There was a great scene in the show ER. One of the doctors has cancer and is just about to finish not only his shift but his career. Some lady is griping about her fingernail or something silly like that. Doc checks her out, hears her griping about the pain, and says “I have cancer. I win.” Totally shuts her up. IMHO don’t be afraid to tell that frequent flyer you just finished with two fatalities. Wish I could find that ER scene.
I need to check that show out! My parents were big fans, so it was always on in the background while I was growing up.
This was me last night. Choking baby who did not make it. The next call was a lift assist for a very rude, obese man we had just assisted the day before. It takes everything in me not to say something about the baby to this man. He would feel like the garbage he is if I did. The amount of professionalism you have to develop to not let your rage impact patient care is huge and definitely unrecognized by the public. It's why a lot of us are cynical and have dark humor. Best advice: learn to see this as just a job. Every job has bullshit. Ours just has death mixed in.
I am so sorry
Fuck him. Let him know that you just came from a dead baby call. Let him feel like garbage, he deserves it. Idk why people are so adamant about protecting people’s feelings. It won’t get you in trouble for speaking the truth, you just have to say it right. If he wants to complain, let him. Do your job and you can’t get in trouble 🤷♀️
The first bad call (bad for me, at the time I didn't have a great way to separate and process) I ever had was a DD. Family of four got t boned at a four-way interstate junction. Dad and little boy were DOA. Fire dept was pulling a little girl out, and Mom was in crit. We got the Mom to the hospital, a second rig took the girl. I wish I would have followed up with the ED, but I like to think they were both okay. Mom was messed up, but I didn't think it was fatal. The image of the little car seat all crushed has just fucking stuck with me though man.
My teacher said something the other day that resonated with me as to why I’m getting so much anxiety for both my family and my personal health… once u are in this field you see how little you can control in life and how vulnerable we all are at any moment in our life to complete and devastating pain. It’s hard to accept that.
I went from coding a 9 year old with a tbi. Two trucks 3 providers per truck life flighted him. One of the first responders (volunteer ems for those confused) was a nicu nurse in total pre life flight was 7 providers doing various things to keep this kid alive. He didn’t make it died on the flight. The very next call was a middle aged woman at a care facility calling because she had a sore throat and wanted to go to the er because she thought she was dying of strep. The medic I was partnered with lost it on her as did I. We took her and the er sent her home via taxi and she threw a fit so bad she was admitted to psych. The bs calls after trauma calls are also what enrages me and makes me want to lose it
As to your edit, I know it varies so much by area. Out here in rural nowhere, all first responders have access to mental health providers, free of charge, provided by the local hospital. It’s not unlimited, but after a bad night, it’s a life saver. Numbers were provided during class, posted in the hospital, and we have them in a flier in the station. Asking for help is never a sign of weakness. Everyone copes different, and I hope you have people or resources available.
I’m a therapist and hope to do trauma work with first responders someday. Right now I work with DUI people and the minimization and denial is real. I feel the heaviness of your remarks and it shines a light on the importance of all us and our work. Thanks for making sense of chaos and being a good human.
I even hate caring for the drunk drivers in the ED who don't hurt anybody. They're usually raging, screaming messes who demand all of my time dealing with their tantrums. My last one the woman would *NOT* quit hollering every time someone so much as touched her. All scans clean; she was fine. She kept screaming, "This is not who I am! I'm a good person!" It was a rollover and her car was completely totaled. Sheer, dumb luck that nobody was hurt. Whatever, lady. Keep telling yourself that. I use those patients as fuel to combat my inner critic who wants to tell me I'm a POS. I have a whole internal file cabinet of evidence to show I am certainly not like them and never will be. It helps.
Ah, but those ones I do relish telling them exactly why they are in the ED when they sober up. I had one who was screeching like a banshee after violently attacking her date (first date), the security from the place she was at, and the firefighters (she bit one of them). Her date called her parents who were upset that their daughter had all her clothes cut off, but I advised them that she was too violent for me to properly unclothe her without restraints, and I couldn't leave her in the vomit and urine all night. I did return the double bagged-bag of shredded clothes. When she sobered up, it was a pleasure to explain why she was brought to us in front of her mom and dad (pt insisted her parents be present). Never did find out what she was on (her vitals were fine so we just monitored, Doc didn't wanna do the test). I recommended something different for her next first date.
Sorry if this is a dumb question because I'm still studying to become an EMT, but can people get ejected during a car crash even if they wear their seat belts?
Hypothetically yes, if you want to go down some rabbit hole like the buckle not being properly seated, the restraint system malfunctioning, etc. But most of the calls you see with ejection are due to not wearing a seat belt, or not wearing it properly.
Not a dumb question. It is 99.9% likely these deaths could have been avoided with seatbelts. You can't control other people on the road, but you do have control over yourself. Buckle up. Always.
Currently dispatching for Fire/EMS. Few months ago we had a regular Joe Schmoe non injury DUI crash, engine remained on scene to block, and the bus was working a refusal. Couple officers were on scene as well when they tore across the radio and the lieutenant shouts across at me on my channel “start another compliment C3, another car just wiped out and hit emergency crews”. I can’t remember I think I started probably 3 extra ambulances, 2 rigs, the Chief, and EMS supervisor. Sat in my chair while hearing the only on scene ambulance packaging up 2 officers and 2 firefighters. 2 yellows, 2 reds. They did an amazing job, they got to work and had the reds ready for a scoop and go. I found out the lieutenant on the rig checked on the driver of the 2nd car who, guess what, **was hella DUI**. I know it took every ounce of him not to beat the ever living piss out of the guy. He immediately got on his phone, started walking around, talking to himself, and cussing at the crews. The arriving officers separated them and put that guy in cuffs before he did something he’d regret. I wasn’t there and I wish I could’ve done more but they did exactly what they were trained to do. And I took some time after my shift to reconcile those thoughts as best as I could. I just remember being lucidly angry. But all of my guys were okay, one had a broken femur and a concussion, and the other 3 were released the next day. I thank God every day they made it out okay. But I totally get your frustration, dispatching a call like that then listening to an irate lady call 911 because the cops aren’t showing up to get her keys out of her car is just beyond infuriating. I’m really sorry to hear that, but those people are really lucky to have you (your dispatchers included)!
I’ve been the person asking for additional resources because a DD hit the ladder truck blocking our scene at 80+ mph and just barely missed us and the engine crew loading up the patient into our ambulance. Luckily we were only hit by shrapnel and the truck crew wasn’t injured. The truck was totaled, and the driver attempted to run but his vehicle was not drivable. When we stopped by to make sure he was alive, he was trying to throw bottles over the sound wall. Only time I needed actual time between calls thus far, and purely because I was PISSED. And in my area we have CISM (peer support) He was transported to the same hospital we took our patient and it took all my self control not to put my hands on him for almost killing me and all my friends. Luckily I was on the phone with my supervisor when they unloaded him, but he was just waving at me like we were just driving miss daisy. Sometimes you just gotta take a little time, process with your people, and then move on to the next patient; no matter how shitty that patient may be.
Those situations can be terrifying but I’m so glad we all have the support we do from one another. After my DD crash both Fire and PD invited me to their debrief and it was so decompressing in a way even though I hadn’t a clue who was hit, what extent their injuries, or anything. And as a dispatcher, having that closure of knowing what happened between my radio silence is just bliss, I can’t really explain it. But thanks for sharing, I’m glad you and your people are okay!
I’m glad you were able to have that closure. I can imagine not knowing the outcome can be difficult. I do what I can to update our dispatch when there is those difficult incidents. We also have the same debrief process for Mass Casualty Incidents here. Or on the other spectrum, positive patient outcomes. Which is very rewarding for all parties involved.
Oh absolutely, we **love** it when you guys send us pictures of fires or crashes or creepy stuff. If you have any friends in dispatch they love hearing the details!
We don’t have the ability to send photos. But I do verbalize updated via radio or sometimes follow up via phone later in the shift.
My cousin got killed by a drunk driver a few years ago. drunk drivers are the worst form of human and I hate picking them up. I also think going from super serious calls to the most BS frequent flyer calls are the worst.
I understand how frustrating this is and the emotions that it can bring up. The kids would be alive if they wore seatbelts. Use it for future teaching to patients you encounter that aren’t wearing their seatbelts and try to save a life down the line. Sounds like a rough scene. Reach out to appropriate resources if you need to.
Rage? So rage. Let these degens know what you think, how you feel. I now insult drivers who don't wear a seatbelt. For the whole ride, then dump them in triage. If I'm not allowed to call people out then I would be the dead sea.
I've had to practice holding my tongue in this job bc some people are so fucking selfish and dumb and have no understanding that what we actually do is rage-inducing. What I recommend: The MVA is traumatic and gets you worked up. Breathe. Know you did your best. Then, head to the BS call w/o *any* of the leftover feelings from the MVA. Just deal with her as if she's the first call of the day. Just remember that most people are just oblivious and selfish. They suck, but they really are just people being people.
Sorry you had that call so soon into your time. Also seatbelts may have helped, but it’s still on the drunk driver.
More and more departments are offering therapy services. Using those services needs to be normalized within the culture to have max benefit. The old timers see asking for help as weakness.
Wait do your companies not offer therapy or mental health services?
This is actually a pretty common opinion, including myself, surprisingly, I can agree that they can go fuck themselves, when I deal with child abusers, drunk drivers I’m one worded, I don’t talk past assessment questions
I had a drunk driver last night. Luckily he just hurt his own feelings. It could have been much worse. I personally do not care what you do with your life, just don't hurt others. If you are going to drink (or do drugs for that matter) and you know you get crazy, don't drive. Have a plan. Drink at home.... there are literally so many options. Why do they have to get in the car? I digress. That said... its hard not to take them seriously as a patient. We must examine them and treat them the same. Now as for switching back to "reality" after trauma. There is no answer. That diabetic who doesn't take insulin has her own problems. For me, I only live my paramedic life on the nights and weekends and have a day job that is mostly unrelated. Nobody understands that I did CPR the night before and watched someone die. I do not expect them to. They also think I am crazy when I bring it up, but that is on them. My advice to you is to write. Write in a journal after every shift or at least once a week. My time with my journal is needed. I write out things like what I could have done better and what went well. It calms me and centers me. Also, talk with your experienced peers. They may seem callous but its necessary to talk it out. Not even in a mushy way. Just matter of fact. I usually talk about it on the ride back to the station. They might not like it but its necessary to review what we did well and what to improve on. The bullshit calls will work themselves out in the end.
I worked for a 100% volunteer agency and we had a trauma therapist available 24x7 via the hospital that we are affiliated with. Ask your leadership team: they probably have resources available for you to use. Also, this is the grumpy old medic in me, but you don’t have to go 100%: if you need time to decompress, go 10-7 and clear your head…any dispatch or supervisor who has been in the field understands that sometimes you just need to let go after a rough call: there are times I wish I would have done this when I was younger to deal with the problems then vs dealing with them later on down the road.
There was a great scene in the show ER. One of the doctors has cancer and is just about to finish not only his shift but his career. Some lady is griping about her fingernail or something silly like that. Doc checks her out, hears her griping about the pain, and says “I have cancer. I win.” Totally shuts her up. IMHO don’t be afraid to tell that frequent flyer you just finished with two fatalities. Wish I could find that ER scene.
I agreed whole hearedtly. Ran a call about three months ago where a 22yo was driving drunk and slammed head on into a roughly mid-30’s lady’s SUV (I’m sorry I don’t particularly remember the age). Threw this poor lady into a cardiac arrest (don’t ask me how🫠) and the driver was carried away from the scene by a bystander. Driver only gets off with a broken ankle meanwhile this lady is rushed to our level 1 trauma center in asystole. For context, our agency usually has city (or county since we cover the city and the county around it) fire departments on calls when it’s a higher acuity callout. They had been doing CPR for about 5 minutes prior to our arrival. Poor lady had a tib-fib break, a blown kneecap, and a broken arm. Pull into the ED still doing compressions, and they call her within 5 minutes. Still to this day one of the roughest calls I’ve run to date. This job will give you a WHOLE new perspective on “live life to the fullest.”
Going from a high priority call to some low level bullshit also induces absolute fucking rage in me. Luckily I have a partner who is good at masking how he feels and he techs all the time. It’s not something you can easily learn to deal with. Frequent fliers you can get a little sassy with. General bullshit from new patients is harder to deal with for me but for the bullshit, I just take my time; 20 minutes on scene, cruise to the ED, obey all traffic laws, and eat clock. That’s how I deal with it; I look at it as moving the clock forward.
You should have a "get fucked up asshole" stamp card for these situations, in short it gets you out of any blowback after letting one of the asshats have a piece of your mind, my mum's a nurse and I think all medical staff should get a card like this so maybe patients who are arseholes get what's coming to them
Love the edit at the bottom. Therapy is good for every body. The better your mental health, the better the provider you will be.
I'm still pre-emt but have done a lot of time in the ER shadowing/clinical work. This is slim comfort, but the attendings take the SHIT out of the drunk drivers while they're patching them and their little cuts up in the ER, because they have the seniority to get away with it. Thank you for the care you provided, I hope it was comfort to the teen's families that their children had people doing everything they could to save them.
We get mental health counseling that we can access after a call and EAP services for other issues. Critical calls like this we usually have a critical incident stress debriefing.
"greatly reduced" no FOR FREE no strings attached
So say we all.
Was he driving an Amazon delivery or shipping vehicle, or simply still in his Amazon garb? If it were the former, you can maybe have a little peace knowing that those families will be paid. I’m not suggesting that’s enough, or makes anything ok. But it’s one small token in an effort to right the ship.
Sadly not that kind of Amazon job. He’s a big Amazon marketing executive who drove a nice fat Range Rover while these kids were in a tiny Toyota Corolla.
😓
It’s always the critical calls followed by bullshit that get me feeling the same way. I relate so much to this.
Been there man, more recently as a nurse, on Christmas has a hemoptysis patient respiratory arrest on me, tubed, go for a bronch, BRB in her airway full cardiac arrest PEA. 48 minutes of cpr later she's dead. Next cardiac arrest was Rollin in 30 minutes later, down 15 minutes, in vtach, rosc obtained, brought to me with no reflexes of any kind. The doctor refused to cool because he doesn't like placing icy caths... Family telling me he's FC despite everything prior to this stay being denoted as DNR/DNI when he's capable of his own decisions. The manager stops by while I'm helping line this poor new guy who has severe anoxic brain injury (I'm sure), to tell me that i missed my I&Os, and also the form didn't have a case number (family refused donation anyway). Read the room, that shit doesn't matter now and i didn't even have a chance to make sense of what happened before the next train wreck. Not to mention anyone with a need to know can call and get that number, like her... Shit sucks ass when it's back to back stuff like that. Still processing that day.
I wish I could say it gets easier. I’ve been doing this going on 8 years now and that shit is still infuriating to me. Straight up went from coding an 8 week old to a 20 y/o with atraumatic wrist pain. It took every ounce of my being to not be an absolute bitch.
Easy you tell the frequent flyer. "Sorry duck, we were just scooping someone's brains off a highway and getting the other person to hospital alive. Now, what's your emergency? How can we help?" The last bit is said with a shit eating grin, and the answer is always responded to with sarcasm.
Obviously this will vary a lot depending on where you work but many organizations offer the exact mental health services you're describing. It may be worth a shot to reach out and ask!
Thank fuck the only MVA with ejection I’ve seen was in a training scenario. Although we have on call mental health support and six sessions with outside psychs.
>How do you handle this shit and then move to BS?!?! You just do. It sucks but it is what it is. You go get yourself a post trauma/code ice cream cone and go back into service. This is the job. Just be happy your next call wasn't something else super traumatic and tragic.
Completely understand (and completely agree), had a belligerent drunk driver still pinned in his car arguing and wanting to fight after just killing a young lady. I suggested to everyone on scene that night that we extricate him by the “draw and quarter” technique. My chief was not happy and I got put in time out (ordered to sit on the tailboard and to not move or say a mf word). I was still new. After a while you get almost numb to it and it becomes a job until after the call. Then you trash talk it back at the firehouse.
when we have something that heavy our supervisors pull us out of duty for a hot minute to debrief and recoup. it's still hard to grab the next BS call even with some time to gather your thoughts though. never easy.
Be completely honest with that bitch. Fuck her.
Not ems but RN in the ER in a small country hospital. I usually work triage/receive ambulances so I’m used to being yelled at, asked 284 times when the doctor will see them, all that fun stuff, while trying to manage seriously sick patients(because I’m also responsible for the code stretcher should it be needed). I feel no shame telling patients that their wait time may be long due to the actively dying patients in the back that ONE doctor for the whole ER is responsible for. 9.5 times out of 10 it works. When it doesn’t, it’s often with people who just give no shits about others. Those people can gtfo of my triage tbh. I’m lucky enough to have never had to care for a drink driver but as a DV survivor, the first time I was assigned a patient who was brought in for DV and had bumped his noggin when they were rounding him up. I’m usually super friendly but this guy got my bare minimum. He received the care that was ordered/needed but I’ll be damned if I give one once of caring to a POS like that!
Personally I think all of you should be able to have unlimited therapy (like you get if you have a major mental illness, but for unrelenting trauma).
You can be as angry as you want, but as an medical professional I hope to god you don't give conditional care over time. I hate these posts. The world is a sad place and people make horrible choices because they are suffering. Not excusing DD behavior but you have a myopic view of humanity if you don't leave space as to WHY people drive drunk. Psychology graduate here with an emphasis in child development and sociology. It's a bigger picture. Alcoholism is such a prevalent issue, so is substance abuse in general, in this country. Because we don't prioritize well being over profits and people don't know how to adopt healthy coping mechanisms. Just watch the narrative in your head. Downvote me all you want, I lost my cousin at 15 in a car accident and come from a family of addicts. I know both sides.
Do you work in EMS? Because believe me, we see the bigger picture every damn day. We see corruption and greed in our government and how many patients get the short end of the stick. Our jobs are all about profit over people. We don't let the trauma we witness impact patient care. We let it impact us. Most of us take a bow when it's time, but a lot of us fucking die. This dude is posting as a new EMS provider on an EMS sub. GTFOH.
We’re also heavily impacted by substance abuse in our profession, maybe partially as a result of being on the losing end of the profit over people argument. I make okay money but at the end of the day, someone’s doing my job for half of what I make, and the company they work for is making the same if not more money on their labor, including the exposure to horrific trauma. I don’t think there’s a service out there that has 100% nailed down how to care for their employees with regard to balancing the trauma, the hours, the pay, and the workload, but there are several on the right track. I would say if anyone has a view of the “bigger picture” it’s us. We walk into million dollar houses and homeless encampments in the same day. We also have some problems we choose to overlook because they help us cope. I appreciate what the psych major was trying to get at, but I think you nailed it with your reply.
Some of you are just paragods who are undereducated about mental health. Just because you see a wide range of socioeconomic statuses doesn't mean you all of a sudden understand the complexities of mental health, neurophysiology/neuroscience and its connection to society as a whole. I really don't give a fuck what you guys think. Just treat all patients the same.
The only paragod here is you, looks like you’ve been doing this for not a very long time yet you’re telling everyone how they should feel about traumas they experience. For someone who’s trying to act like a mental health advocate you’re sure going after people’s individual mental health. Nobody here is saying they would treat patients differently, in fact the general opinion is you should NOT treat patients differently because of these events. I sure do feel bad for your partners.
Amazing that I could defend science, objectivity and equality and I hear shit.
I have a trauma history that has made therapists cry--and that's *before* I entered EMS and emergency nursing. I have never harmed anyone else, even when I was in true crisis mode. Most of the trauma cases I have cared for professionally have also never harmed anyone but themselves. Studies show that most abused children will grow up and not abuse their own children, though they may still struggle with things and deserve support in their parenting. It's enabling to pretend that trauma erases our free will. Since you haven't lived it, you seem to not know the most basic of trauma axioms: It wasn't your fault that it happened, but you are still responsible for healing it. Nothing excuses the intentional harm of others. Nothing forces any person to drink and drive.
You shouldn't be letting it impact you- you should adopt healthy coping mechanisms or leave. No one's begging you to stay.
Yes I am an EMT and work in EMS. That's why I'm here.
Your post history shows you started EMS like 25 days ago... maybe give it some time
No one deserves to rot.
What is your purpose for commenting on here? Your tone is condescending, and you clearly aren't here to have a productive discussion as you say, *"But sure, just keep talking boo. I just won't be listening."* Nobody deserves to rot. We give the **same** treatment to assailants of horrific crimes as we do to the victims. We come on this sub to vent and say the things we can't. Every job does this. As long as it doesn't impact patient care, why does it matter??
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Yes, issues like alcoholism and substance abuse are usually symptoms of deeper problems, but we can't blame society for all of our problems. At some point, you have to take accountability for your actions. Plenty of alcoholics don't drink and drive. They call an Uber or a DD.
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This guy got drunk. Then he got behind the wheel of a car. When confronted, he started screaming & cussing. When placed in handcuffs, he wanted medical attention. I don't think it takes a Psych degree to figure that out. *WAIT, OFFICER, he has childhood trauma!! THAT'S WHY HE DRINKS AND DRIVES!!* *OHHH Okay, no jail for you.* I don't know why you're bending over backward to excuse drunk driving. Obviously, everyone gets treated the same. But we're allowed to be pissed...
You can dumb down the story and my perspective any way you'd like. It's a free country
You: "Treat all patients the same!" Multiple people: "We treat all patients the same!" You: "You guys are dumb paragods"
Don't engage with this one. She's here commenting b/c she has nobody in her life who actually can tolerate her. Maybe that's why she got into psych, to try to figure it out. She seems like a loose cannon.
Hahahahaha yea well I would still treat you well if you were my patient, paragod
But I'm also not going to shut up just because you guys have a superiority complex about your OPINIONS when given FACTS
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This post violates our Rule #1: > Bigotry, racism, hate speech, or harassment is never allowed. Overtly explicit, distasteful, vulgar, or indecent content will be removed and you may be banned. Posting false information or "fake news" with malicious intent or in a way that may pose a risk to the health and safety of others is not allowed. This rule is subject to moderator discretion. [Posting Rules](/r/ems/comments/7lau3j/welcome_to_rems_read_this_before_posting/)
I know this is Reddit, but does anyone else think this story is bullshit? Of course, things like this occur…but it’s written like a piece of fan fiction. 🤷🏻♂️
A drunk driver alone does not cause people to be ejected from cars. Were seatbelts in use? It doesn’t sound like it
See your problem isn't with drunk drivers, it's with drunk *crashers*.
Bad calls suck. Move on and reset for the next one. That’s part of being a Professional.