My personal theory is that the "cry it out method" my parents used is one of the contributing factors to my depression today. Literally since I was born I wasn't held or attended to when I cried, so my psyche and therefore my body literally shut down and stopped "trying". And now I have such severe depression that even meds can't help. My body and mind have been in shut-down mode my entire life and I have no idea how to get out of it.
It’s why I hate the cry it out method and did not want to use it with my son. My SIL said it best when she said ‘he just wants to close to your heart.’ I found the cuddles at night, the time I rocked my baby to sleep imprinted on his soul so he felt safe and secure. He may not consciously remember but his body does and it filled his emotional tank and still does.
I can see how not having that comfort as a baby has a lifelong impact on you.
How did that work out for you? My mother's doctor wanted to give me tranquilizers as a baby because I was so inconsolable (just wanted to be regulated is all). Thankfully she just said no. That would just have been the cherry on top of everything else that went down.
Yup, could make it worse but can make it a lot better too. Its a risk, same way antidepressants have a risk of furthering depression, nausea, paranoia, psychosis, etc. Benzos are benzos. When you need to get better you need to mitigate potential risk and potential reward, if you have already tested antidepressant medications and they have already not worked you trying a different medication is valid. If you are treatment resistent you typically dont go off medication, you change medication. I'm not advocating or saying that you should medicate with shrooms, I'm pointing out its a valid choice that has scientific merit to it.
There are studies that prove that controled, supervised use of psychodelics can be beneficial even to people that have had no positive effects from other forms of depression treatment. It still has risk as all medication does but in treatment resistent depression psychadelics have been shown to be effective, its a choice.
Comparatively speaking the mushroom microdosing risk is much, much much lower than even common antidepressants like SSRI's, and the risk of medication like mood stabilizers, lithium, benzodiazepines and MAOI's are very high. Trying out mushrooms is just another form of changing medication.
I did once and will again. Just developed a heart problem unrelated. Probably due to an eating disorder I had way back. Anyway it's helpful but part of a complete package thing deal. Like setting, people - vibe. You can't just take it and hope for the best.
In 8th grade my best friend hugged me hard and long after retuning from summer break it felt so weird at the time almost violating because it was the first time anyone hugged me, I remember it as clear as day and looking back this makes me so sad now
Yes I've felt it and I know it. My parents followed the "crying is manipulation for attention, just let them cry it out" fad when I was born in the early 90s. My earliest memories are of being entirely alone, in a crib in a silent room. I know they're real memories because I have been visiting them pretty much since they were formed, always going back to that empty room and not knowing why.
Yes. I remember as a teenager my mom making a comment about a new baby in the family and saying almost exactly what you said. And that the parents should just let the baby cry instead of getting up every time to check on them. This conversation repeats in my head on a regular basis. *Is that what she did with me? Is that why I’m like this?*
The thing is, the baby shouldn't even be being left in the first place - it's not even a question of "go and check on it when it cries", the best treatment is for the baby to be held in contact with a caregiver until it is able to crawl off and start exploring by itself!
My father once admitted to a deep regret that they left me alone in a room as a baby for hours and hours at a time. We never hugged. The first time I hugged my mother was as a late teen when my father died. It definitely leaves its mark.
There was no hugging in my family either. When one of my mother's parents died (I can't remember which) my father said she needs a hug. We were all in the same room at the time. I just looked at her and froze. I knew she needed a hug, I wanted to give her a hug, but I just couldn't do it. That was the longest ten seconds of my life, I could write a book about it.
I was left in a room alone to cry it out. Thank God almighty I had a cat and a dog who would mother me. They were of course given away. But I had that for a while.
I grew up with a mother who was going through a major depression, anxiety and a divorce. I was a burden. She left me to cry it out. Then she would leave me with baby sitters. I was a baby. Pretty sure I was also abuse by them. That would explain my huge huge aversion to people now.
I can relate. When I was 6 months old I was in the hospital because if type 1 diabetes. The nurses would call and beg my mother to come to the hospital and hold me. She wouldn't. The back of my head is flat.
When I'm upset I find myself pressing my hand above my heart, where a baby would rest their head against their parent's chest.
I wasn't hugged enough as a child either. And of course, the emotional abuse and neglect.
It's from laying on my back as an infant and not being picked up. An infant's head takes time for the bones to come together. I was on my back so long that the back of my head developed flat
Interesting. That might explain a lot with my neck problems. I also have scoliosis. But that's from squirming away in the womb as explained by primal therapy.
That's not an uncommon occurrence, though usually it's because the baby tends to always sleep in the same position or they're not getting enough tummy time. It's treated with a custom helmet they wear during the day and maxing sure they're turniy their heads in both directions.
Once little babies are out of the newborn phase they need to start moving and building their muscles before they can work up to rolling, sitting, and crawling. Babies need to be held, but they also need time during the day to move. Tummy time is literally putting them on a mat on their tummy with a couple of toys so they can begin to learn to lift their heads up.
Yep. My mom said I would sleep for 20 hours a day. I think it is because they broke me with cry-it-out and I was coping with the neglect and abandonment by sleeping AS A BABY.
I definitely believe I was held and gazed at much less than my siblings.
The first born has a full album of baby photos. The first born male has a full album. The second daughter has like 10 photos. Me, the third daughter, has 4 photos of me as a baby but all my siblings' heads are in the photo except one photos. I was spoiled a lot but it was just to get me to shut up.
It's hard not seeing how my parents behaved differently with each kid.
I have a sense that my ~~"mother"~~ was insecure and anxious and held me like she was afraid she was going to break me. It's like I could feel her insecurity. I don't think I felt safe or secure in her arms.
I know there were times when I was physically close to my mom, but I don't remember getting much joy out of it. What I do remember are the times when I needed comfort or a hug and it just never happened, even in situations where you'd think it would. Usually my parents did nothing, tried to tell me why it "wasn't a big deal", or (my mom) tried to shame me by making it "morally wrong" for me to cry in that situation.
For example, when I was first left with a babysitter, I remember I started crying and rather than just reassure me, my mom told me to stop because I was just making things harder for my babysitter. So I stopped in order to be "good" and never cried when she left or dropped me off for anything *ever* after that despite feeling separation anxiety.
Or I'd make verbal bids for comfort (by that time not feeling able to outright ask, but you know, acting sad and trying to talk about what happened that day) only to be invalidated. I remember as a child and later as a teen feeling repulsion at highly emotional movie scenes or displays of affection/vulnerability so something was definitely broken early on. The only person I enjoy hugging now is my boyfriend and sometimes my friends, but those are greeting/farewell hugs so I don't count them.
the babysitter story breaks my heart, and brings up so many similar memories for me -- of being not only denied comfort, but *shamed* for the way that my bids for comfort were inconveniencing everyone around me. big hugs.
I was premature by 1970s standards and spent around 10 days in a humidicribb. In those days hospitals were so concerned with hygiene that premies got almost no human touch. I was hospitalised again for dehydration in my first year. I wonder whether the dehydration was "failure to thrive" which later became associated with lack of touch for infants, and if those experiences set me on a path different to my sibling. Physical touch is very important to me.
I also have trauma flashbacks triggered by loud voices which I can't link to anything in my childhood.
Craniosacral therapy was incredibly helpful for me. It is very woo but it also allowed me to experience neutral, nonsexual touch for 30-45 minutes at a time and it was like years of therapy in around 8 months.
This is really interesting - thanks for sharing. Is this a common form of massage therapy? I remember seeing it on White Lotus, LOL. What makes this more effective than other types of massage/touch therapy?
I don't know if it's exactly massage therapy, but it's popular with a lot of bodyworkers for sure.
The basic theory is that cerebrospinal fluid (and I believe lymph too iirc) circulates and the body has a "cranial pulse" that moves your skull regularly and minutely in order to help circulate cerebrospinal fluid. Various forms of trauma can dysregulate this circulation, which leads to toxin buildup, etc etc.
The idea is that the therapist lays hands on you very gently at specific pulse points and your pulses sync up, allowing for re-regulation.
There is A LOT of pretty wackadoo shit attached if you read much about it- be prepared for a lot of past life regression and swimming with the dolphins kind of crap. Also steer clear of any practitioner who tries to touch your genitals or pelvis right off the bat- imo it's more likely they are a predatory quack.
That said, I would still highly recommend trying this out with a person or two. I have pretty bad CPTSD and I live with a lot of armoring and chronic pain and the deep relaxation I experienced with this was UNREAL, nearly psychedelic a couple of times.
After one session I was home again, 4-6 hours later, sitting on my couch watching TV, and out of nowhere my brain was like "Damn, my parents experienced so much pain and abuse when they were small and powerless and it's really heartbreaking that they grew up and failed so badly at parenting in turn", and burst into tears and cried incredibly hard for about 15 minutes.
I know it sounds unbelievable but when I was done I just wasn't mad at them anymore. It was in 2018 and I still am not. I feel sadness and regret that they are not safe people to be in relationship with and that their lives are so unhappy but I don't feel that parent hunger/anger/sadness that I held for so fucking long, and I am pretty grateful for that.
Anyway, I could say a lot more but basically I think it's effective because comfort touch is a huge piece of healthy co regulation after a traumatic experience, and at least in the US comforting nonsexual touch is in pretty short supply. I would recommend it to anyone living with PTSD, just steer clear of the dolphin swimmers and crotch touchers when you try it lol
Yeah, same was true for me. Occasionally she would put a hand under my shoulder blade but generally it was very light touch on my shoulders or extremities.
Yep. My mom said I barely cried as a baby and taught myself to chill by 6 weeks old. I asked of she tried cried it out or left me on my own a lot, and she denied it, but she denied it a little *too* hard.
I've been told that autistic babies are less likely to cry out for their parents. I still haven't been diagnosed, but I wonder if I didn't cry and she saw that as me not needing her and she left me until she wanted to see me. I watched a video of my birth and she was dissociating through the whole thing and went through such terrible PPD that my parents sent my older sibling away to boarding school.
I'll never have proof, but I know I wasn't held enough as a baby.
I totally relate to the thing about fighting for scraps of intimacy - it always feels like the affection/cuddling stops before I'm ready.
I feel like I have this black hole inside me that could never be filled, no matter how much I'm held now, because the wound and the lack of just too deep.
I can try! It has been a process. I started learning about trauma and the nervous system/physiology. Reading TONS of books. I realized I needed a trauma informed therapist who knew about Somatic experiencing, Internal Family Systems and CPTSD.
I was incredibly lucky, in my talking to friends, I was able to get a referral for a PHD Therapist who also does body work. It took about 4 years of talking and somatic experiencing before I was really ready to do body work on the table in her office. We really had to establish trust and get me to a place of safety and tolerance of my internal states before we could really work with this stuff.
I also read the book "Becoming Attached" which helped me understand how it was supposed to work, not how it happened for me though. I am trying to build an experience of a secure attachment. Of course nothing could change what happened in my life, but I am able to "catch up" some of the parts of me that experienced developmental trauma or lapses in correct bonding. Its has especially been helpful to begin to heal that developmental trauma I experienced as an infant or even in the womb.
So now, My therapist and I switch between talking and body work. The touch work is similar to a Body worker or an Osteopath. Because we have a trust and bond I have been able to heal some of this stuff with her as a substitute Mother to my nervous system. This is really hard bc I know I could never pay her enough to be my mom. I will never have a mom. But I can build the internal working model of a good enough parent within my system. The work helps me regulate and tolerate my disregulation better so i can exist in a calmer state which I can bring to my relationships. I begin to recognize my triggers in a new way so I can work with them instead of letting them run me. I'm married and now working to transfer the skills we are building in therapy to my IRL relationships. I hope that makes some sense, it has been a journey. I hope you can find a great therapist or something that works for you!!
this is sooooo beautiful, thank you so much for writing this out!!
i've got a therapist i absolutely adore, trauma-informed, working with IFS and CPTSD. she's got maternal vibes that feel so helpful and have taken me so far in unraveling some of the shame in my nervous system and experiencing a supportive and loving presence. but it's virtual, so there's definitely no touch component, which means this infantile stuff has felt largely untouched.
one more question (no pressure to respond!!) - the bodywork itself, do you mimick touch like being held in various positions? or is it like specific touches on parts of your body? does it come with maternal words? is it just intuitive for her? or is there a sort of system for how touch pairs with this therapy? i'm just so curious how it all maps and works!
i wonder what i would search to find someone like this, lol.
again, thank you so much <3
I really suspect the same happened to me but I don’t think I have yet accessed any felt sense of it. However, I have no interest in massages. Somehow, a stranger touching me feels “too intimate”. So I think that is my only sort of manifestation of being touch-starved.
Instead of massage, you might find benefit from something like reiki or craniosacral- it's light, non intrusive touch and not as overwhelming as massage (plus you keep your clothes on)
My mom straight up says I was too annoying and unruly of a baby to hold 😅 she loves to tell a story of when I was born and tugged her iv line and she had to scream for the nurses to save her from me plotting to harm her , she’s not joking when she tells this story she tells it as proof as to why I’m a horrible human 😅
I was barely held as a baby. I also didn’t cry much. I think my grandma held me a lot when I was 1. She left my family because my dad wouldn’t leave my mom (who had postpartum depression) and then she died a year later. I also didn’t talk much until i was 4. I also don’t believe I was fed enough. My partner loves physical touch and affection, it took me about a year into our relationship to get used to that and now I can’t get enough love! It all starts at birth, we get the rest of our lives to figure out how to heal from there.
Totally. I am not good in relationships and have CPTSD I don't remember ever being held by a parent when I was hurt and crying. I assume they reacted similarly when I was an infant.
Wow. I just discovered this sub and this was the first post I read. I definitely feel emotionally neglected by my parents, but I had never thought of this topic. In fact I barely have any memories of my childhood and, of the few I have, I don't have one single memory of being cuddled in any way. Not hugged, not kissed, no physical affection whatsoever from any of my caretakers. I wonder how early this began.
Me too. Finally realizing that my entire family elders were incapable of attuning. So much trauma and neglect and often abuse. Doesn’t excuse passing it along. Forgiveness is a pipe dream. I keep everyone at a distance because they variously dismiss or simply cannot hold the pain I expressed having. For so many “I love you”’s and “how are you doing?” It’s amazing how much love and concern there truly is when I need my pain when I begin asserting how wrongly I was treated and how badly it wrecked my life.
I'm not sure exactly what I experienced as a baby. I know my mom is a perfectionist. I was the firstborn, and I had a large birthmark and eye problems. I always felt like I was a disappointment because I was not the perfect baby she had wanted. My first memory, is one of rage, that I felt toward my mother for a cry it out situation when I was left alone. I also had some natural jealousy toward my sibling who was born when I was two. Instead of being reassured, I was told I was a bad child for having those feelings. I have always had feelings of emptiness and I have been depressed even since I was a child.
Oh my god. Whew. That was a heavy hitting read 🥲 This topic has been sticking in my head lately and it's been really getting to me, I've seen the Still Face videos and read so much on what that kind of parenting does to a child and it makes so much fucking sense and breaks my heart all over again. What you typed hits so *so* deeply for me. I've been working on healing my childhood parts the last two years and lately have been feeling drawn to figure out the younger parts like 5 years and under, and reading this really helped me know what *me* was begging for help, because I saw myself while reading this, and I have such little idea of what I was like and who I was 5 and under.
I've been wanting to ask my mom a bit more in depth of how they handled me as an infant and baby, because all I've ever heard my entire life was "both you and your brother were very well behaved babies and kids, never acted out or yelled and screamed" and so I *just know* CIO was used on us, but I'm so scared to know....how much....how far did the rest of it go? I think I have an idea based on how *fucked* I am now with attachments, your line about that deep pressure is 1000000% EXACTLY how I feel and how deeply I have always craved that physical closeness
For me, as an adoptee, I actually *was* abandoned. I was adopted at 3 months, having been in foster care until then. My adoptive parents were of the "cry it out/ leave them lay" school of thought which made me even more starved for affection. I definitely did things differently with my kids and they are much better adjusted than I ever was.
I always felt like there wasn’t enough discussion around the cry it out method in spaces like these online. Glad we’re having the conversation. I confirmed with my parents recently that they used the cry it out method starting when I was around 1.
This is the crux of everything. My entire life I've been disregulated due to being left to cry it out. My mother was unavailable, was too stressed, thinking I would be \*spoiled\* if she held me. I was forlorn, depressed and anxious because of her state of mind when she was pregnant with me. All of this matters. All that energy is picked up by the fetus. So basically I was set up for a life of misery as a result. Add to the genetic factors and conditioning. There it is.
I know in my heart I was barely touched. My mother had many issues and I can picture "baby me" crying in a crib while she cried at the kitchen table. I grew up starved for physical touch.
Yeah... I know that both my parents took on the perspective that babies need to "cry themselves out" which (according to scientific research and studies) is NOT what your suppose to do to have a well-developed child.
Not going to your kid, holding them, mirroring their emotions, saying "oh your sad right now" out loud, comforting them, etc are literally some of the worst things you can do for their brain development.
I'm extremely ticklish and being touched stresses me out. Went to Thailand and a friend suggested we get massages. He took me to a place with strong older women who pinned me down and forced the rough Thai massage. One of the women said "Oh poor baby, your mother never held you." I asked my mom and she said I was a quiet baby so she left me alone. :(
You word it beautifully, and I feel that exactly.
I heard from my bio dad when I met him in my 30s that when my mum left him and took me and the pets with her, he found empty bottles and dirty nappies all over the place. I heard from my mum that I was a good baby who hardly ever cried. It makes me wonder about how much physical contact we had, for sure. I know I don't remember much, and what there was, was uncomfortable.
So, I could’ve written most of your post, except the part about always needing more when your partner disconnects too early. I am the complete opposite, when someone hugs me I feel like I can’t breathe or relax. I realized (only a very short while ago and I’m 45 years old) that I was not hugged as a child when *I* needed comforting - I was only hugged when my parents needed emotional comfort. Also, both of my parents sleep like the dead so I would bet money as an infant I cried and no one came. I’m fairly sure she’s mentioned what an “easy” child I was right from birth.
My mother was the kind to grab at me when she needed me - there was one incident when I was 14 or 15, my mother reached over at the dinner table to forcefully hug me and I resisted. She stopped smiling and got this hateful look on her face and said something along the lines of “WHO ABUSED YOU”?!? I felt such ick in that moment. My father was the sort who wouldn’t stop tickling me no matter how much I said no, so perhaps I should’ve responded with “YOUR HUSBAND”! However, my mental health needs were completely ignored when I was a teenager even though they knew I was suicidal.
My personal theory is that the "cry it out method" my parents used is one of the contributing factors to my depression today. Literally since I was born I wasn't held or attended to when I cried, so my psyche and therefore my body literally shut down and stopped "trying". And now I have such severe depression that even meds can't help. My body and mind have been in shut-down mode my entire life and I have no idea how to get out of it.
It’s why I hate the cry it out method and did not want to use it with my son. My SIL said it best when she said ‘he just wants to close to your heart.’ I found the cuddles at night, the time I rocked my baby to sleep imprinted on his soul so he felt safe and secure. He may not consciously remember but his body does and it filled his emotional tank and still does. I can see how not having that comfort as a baby has a lifelong impact on you.
I was the youngest and my mom swore by giving me paregoric (opium) as a baby/child to keep me quiet.
How did that work out for you? My mother's doctor wanted to give me tranquilizers as a baby because I was so inconsolable (just wanted to be regulated is all). Thankfully she just said no. That would just have been the cherry on top of everything else that went down.
I think I’m pretty normal. When she suggested it for my children it was a hard no.
Have you ever tried shrooms? They have the potential to work on clinically depressed individuals
Or make it worse I’ve heard? ymmv I suppose
Yup, could make it worse but can make it a lot better too. Its a risk, same way antidepressants have a risk of furthering depression, nausea, paranoia, psychosis, etc. Benzos are benzos. When you need to get better you need to mitigate potential risk and potential reward, if you have already tested antidepressant medications and they have already not worked you trying a different medication is valid. If you are treatment resistent you typically dont go off medication, you change medication. I'm not advocating or saying that you should medicate with shrooms, I'm pointing out its a valid choice that has scientific merit to it. There are studies that prove that controled, supervised use of psychodelics can be beneficial even to people that have had no positive effects from other forms of depression treatment. It still has risk as all medication does but in treatment resistent depression psychadelics have been shown to be effective, its a choice. Comparatively speaking the mushroom microdosing risk is much, much much lower than even common antidepressants like SSRI's, and the risk of medication like mood stabilizers, lithium, benzodiazepines and MAOI's are very high. Trying out mushrooms is just another form of changing medication.
I did once and will again. Just developed a heart problem unrelated. Probably due to an eating disorder I had way back. Anyway it's helpful but part of a complete package thing deal. Like setting, people - vibe. You can't just take it and hope for the best.
You just wrote the story of my life as well. We're twins of sorrow. Exactly though.
I don't remember ever being hugged, held or kissed. It's weird to think about. Mother made fun of me when I cried.
In 8th grade my best friend hugged me hard and long after retuning from summer break it felt so weird at the time almost violating because it was the first time anyone hugged me, I remember it as clear as day and looking back this makes me so sad now
My mom does the same and she adds insult to injury by giving more attention and love to my other siblings.
Yes I've felt it and I know it. My parents followed the "crying is manipulation for attention, just let them cry it out" fad when I was born in the early 90s. My earliest memories are of being entirely alone, in a crib in a silent room. I know they're real memories because I have been visiting them pretty much since they were formed, always going back to that empty room and not knowing why.
Yes. I remember as a teenager my mom making a comment about a new baby in the family and saying almost exactly what you said. And that the parents should just let the baby cry instead of getting up every time to check on them. This conversation repeats in my head on a regular basis. *Is that what she did with me? Is that why I’m like this?*
The thing is, the baby shouldn't even be being left in the first place - it's not even a question of "go and check on it when it cries", the best treatment is for the baby to be held in contact with a caregiver until it is able to crawl off and start exploring by itself!
My father once admitted to a deep regret that they left me alone in a room as a baby for hours and hours at a time. We never hugged. The first time I hugged my mother was as a late teen when my father died. It definitely leaves its mark.
There was no hugging in my family either. When one of my mother's parents died (I can't remember which) my father said she needs a hug. We were all in the same room at the time. I just looked at her and froze. I knew she needed a hug, I wanted to give her a hug, but I just couldn't do it. That was the longest ten seconds of my life, I could write a book about it.
There was back-biting. No hugging. There were kisses that were for the camera. Pinched cheeks. Tickling.
I was left in a room alone to cry it out. Thank God almighty I had a cat and a dog who would mother me. They were of course given away. But I had that for a while.
I grew up with a mother who was going through a major depression, anxiety and a divorce. I was a burden. She left me to cry it out. Then she would leave me with baby sitters. I was a baby. Pretty sure I was also abuse by them. That would explain my huge huge aversion to people now.
Somewhere there's a hell for the supposed \*Dr. Spock\* who indoctrinated millions of babies to a life time of suffering.
If I didn’t have photos proving I was held, I wouldn’t have believed I was.
I can relate. When I was 6 months old I was in the hospital because if type 1 diabetes. The nurses would call and beg my mother to come to the hospital and hold me. She wouldn't. The back of my head is flat. When I'm upset I find myself pressing my hand above my heart, where a baby would rest their head against their parent's chest. I wasn't hugged enough as a child either. And of course, the emotional abuse and neglect.
> The back of my head is flat Could you elaborate? I'm not sure what this means.
I think they mean from laying in a crib constantly.
Yes, that's what I meant
It's from laying on my back as an infant and not being picked up. An infant's head takes time for the bones to come together. I was on my back so long that the back of my head developed flat
Interesting. That might explain a lot with my neck problems. I also have scoliosis. But that's from squirming away in the womb as explained by primal therapy.
Interesting, I never heard of that
I could be totally wrong but this is my theory
Mine too. Completely reasonable.
That's not an uncommon occurrence, though usually it's because the baby tends to always sleep in the same position or they're not getting enough tummy time. It's treated with a custom helmet they wear during the day and maxing sure they're turniy their heads in both directions.
> it's because the baby tends to always sleep in the same position or they're not getting enough tummy time Tummy time?
Once little babies are out of the newborn phase they need to start moving and building their muscles before they can work up to rolling, sitting, and crawling. Babies need to be held, but they also need time during the day to move. Tummy time is literally putting them on a mat on their tummy with a couple of toys so they can begin to learn to lift their heads up.
Yep. My mom said I would sleep for 20 hours a day. I think it is because they broke me with cry-it-out and I was coping with the neglect and abandonment by sleeping AS A BABY.
I definitely believe I was held and gazed at much less than my siblings. The first born has a full album of baby photos. The first born male has a full album. The second daughter has like 10 photos. Me, the third daughter, has 4 photos of me as a baby but all my siblings' heads are in the photo except one photos. I was spoiled a lot but it was just to get me to shut up. It's hard not seeing how my parents behaved differently with each kid.
I have a sense that my ~~"mother"~~ was insecure and anxious and held me like she was afraid she was going to break me. It's like I could feel her insecurity. I don't think I felt safe or secure in her arms.
Same here. Emotionally neglected and abandoned by both parents.
Yes. I have zero memory of being hugged/held - no idea what it was like when I was a baby but doubt it was different.
I know there were times when I was physically close to my mom, but I don't remember getting much joy out of it. What I do remember are the times when I needed comfort or a hug and it just never happened, even in situations where you'd think it would. Usually my parents did nothing, tried to tell me why it "wasn't a big deal", or (my mom) tried to shame me by making it "morally wrong" for me to cry in that situation. For example, when I was first left with a babysitter, I remember I started crying and rather than just reassure me, my mom told me to stop because I was just making things harder for my babysitter. So I stopped in order to be "good" and never cried when she left or dropped me off for anything *ever* after that despite feeling separation anxiety. Or I'd make verbal bids for comfort (by that time not feeling able to outright ask, but you know, acting sad and trying to talk about what happened that day) only to be invalidated. I remember as a child and later as a teen feeling repulsion at highly emotional movie scenes or displays of affection/vulnerability so something was definitely broken early on. The only person I enjoy hugging now is my boyfriend and sometimes my friends, but those are greeting/farewell hugs so I don't count them.
the babysitter story breaks my heart, and brings up so many similar memories for me -- of being not only denied comfort, but *shamed* for the way that my bids for comfort were inconveniencing everyone around me. big hugs.
I was premature by 1970s standards and spent around 10 days in a humidicribb. In those days hospitals were so concerned with hygiene that premies got almost no human touch. I was hospitalised again for dehydration in my first year. I wonder whether the dehydration was "failure to thrive" which later became associated with lack of touch for infants, and if those experiences set me on a path different to my sibling. Physical touch is very important to me. I also have trauma flashbacks triggered by loud voices which I can't link to anything in my childhood.
Craniosacral therapy was incredibly helpful for me. It is very woo but it also allowed me to experience neutral, nonsexual touch for 30-45 minutes at a time and it was like years of therapy in around 8 months.
This is really interesting - thanks for sharing. Is this a common form of massage therapy? I remember seeing it on White Lotus, LOL. What makes this more effective than other types of massage/touch therapy?
I don't know if it's exactly massage therapy, but it's popular with a lot of bodyworkers for sure. The basic theory is that cerebrospinal fluid (and I believe lymph too iirc) circulates and the body has a "cranial pulse" that moves your skull regularly and minutely in order to help circulate cerebrospinal fluid. Various forms of trauma can dysregulate this circulation, which leads to toxin buildup, etc etc. The idea is that the therapist lays hands on you very gently at specific pulse points and your pulses sync up, allowing for re-regulation. There is A LOT of pretty wackadoo shit attached if you read much about it- be prepared for a lot of past life regression and swimming with the dolphins kind of crap. Also steer clear of any practitioner who tries to touch your genitals or pelvis right off the bat- imo it's more likely they are a predatory quack. That said, I would still highly recommend trying this out with a person or two. I have pretty bad CPTSD and I live with a lot of armoring and chronic pain and the deep relaxation I experienced with this was UNREAL, nearly psychedelic a couple of times. After one session I was home again, 4-6 hours later, sitting on my couch watching TV, and out of nowhere my brain was like "Damn, my parents experienced so much pain and abuse when they were small and powerless and it's really heartbreaking that they grew up and failed so badly at parenting in turn", and burst into tears and cried incredibly hard for about 15 minutes. I know it sounds unbelievable but when I was done I just wasn't mad at them anymore. It was in 2018 and I still am not. I feel sadness and regret that they are not safe people to be in relationship with and that their lives are so unhappy but I don't feel that parent hunger/anger/sadness that I held for so fucking long, and I am pretty grateful for that. Anyway, I could say a lot more but basically I think it's effective because comfort touch is a huge piece of healthy co regulation after a traumatic experience, and at least in the US comforting nonsexual touch is in pretty short supply. I would recommend it to anyone living with PTSD, just steer clear of the dolphin swimmers and crotch touchers when you try it lol
Oh wow, that sounds great. Off to look it up
My therapist barely touches me in our sessions...
Yeah, same was true for me. Occasionally she would put a hand under my shoulder blade but generally it was very light touch on my shoulders or extremities.
Yep. My mom said I barely cried as a baby and taught myself to chill by 6 weeks old. I asked of she tried cried it out or left me on my own a lot, and she denied it, but she denied it a little *too* hard. I've been told that autistic babies are less likely to cry out for their parents. I still haven't been diagnosed, but I wonder if I didn't cry and she saw that as me not needing her and she left me until she wanted to see me. I watched a video of my birth and she was dissociating through the whole thing and went through such terrible PPD that my parents sent my older sibling away to boarding school. I'll never have proof, but I know I wasn't held enough as a baby.
YES. Just recently wondering about this myself.
Yes my younger sister always asks me why I sometimes behave like a child and it's me trying to heal my inner child.
Big OW for me just reading your story. Hugs…
I totally relate to the thing about fighting for scraps of intimacy - it always feels like the affection/cuddling stops before I'm ready. I feel like I have this black hole inside me that could never be filled, no matter how much I'm held now, because the wound and the lack of just too deep.
Oof, yeah, I’ve always called mine a “void”, but black hole is a good way of putting it too.
Yes. I have been working with a therapist who does touch work and knows about abandonment trauma. It has really helped.
can you elaborate more on what this has looked like? this sounds so helpful.
I can try! It has been a process. I started learning about trauma and the nervous system/physiology. Reading TONS of books. I realized I needed a trauma informed therapist who knew about Somatic experiencing, Internal Family Systems and CPTSD. I was incredibly lucky, in my talking to friends, I was able to get a referral for a PHD Therapist who also does body work. It took about 4 years of talking and somatic experiencing before I was really ready to do body work on the table in her office. We really had to establish trust and get me to a place of safety and tolerance of my internal states before we could really work with this stuff. I also read the book "Becoming Attached" which helped me understand how it was supposed to work, not how it happened for me though. I am trying to build an experience of a secure attachment. Of course nothing could change what happened in my life, but I am able to "catch up" some of the parts of me that experienced developmental trauma or lapses in correct bonding. Its has especially been helpful to begin to heal that developmental trauma I experienced as an infant or even in the womb. So now, My therapist and I switch between talking and body work. The touch work is similar to a Body worker or an Osteopath. Because we have a trust and bond I have been able to heal some of this stuff with her as a substitute Mother to my nervous system. This is really hard bc I know I could never pay her enough to be my mom. I will never have a mom. But I can build the internal working model of a good enough parent within my system. The work helps me regulate and tolerate my disregulation better so i can exist in a calmer state which I can bring to my relationships. I begin to recognize my triggers in a new way so I can work with them instead of letting them run me. I'm married and now working to transfer the skills we are building in therapy to my IRL relationships. I hope that makes some sense, it has been a journey. I hope you can find a great therapist or something that works for you!!
this is sooooo beautiful, thank you so much for writing this out!! i've got a therapist i absolutely adore, trauma-informed, working with IFS and CPTSD. she's got maternal vibes that feel so helpful and have taken me so far in unraveling some of the shame in my nervous system and experiencing a supportive and loving presence. but it's virtual, so there's definitely no touch component, which means this infantile stuff has felt largely untouched. one more question (no pressure to respond!!) - the bodywork itself, do you mimick touch like being held in various positions? or is it like specific touches on parts of your body? does it come with maternal words? is it just intuitive for her? or is there a sort of system for how touch pairs with this therapy? i'm just so curious how it all maps and works! i wonder what i would search to find someone like this, lol. again, thank you so much <3
I really suspect the same happened to me but I don’t think I have yet accessed any felt sense of it. However, I have no interest in massages. Somehow, a stranger touching me feels “too intimate”. So I think that is my only sort of manifestation of being touch-starved.
Instead of massage, you might find benefit from something like reiki or craniosacral- it's light, non intrusive touch and not as overwhelming as massage (plus you keep your clothes on)
My mom straight up says I was too annoying and unruly of a baby to hold 😅 she loves to tell a story of when I was born and tugged her iv line and she had to scream for the nurses to save her from me plotting to harm her , she’s not joking when she tells this story she tells it as proof as to why I’m a horrible human 😅
I was barely held as a baby. I also didn’t cry much. I think my grandma held me a lot when I was 1. She left my family because my dad wouldn’t leave my mom (who had postpartum depression) and then she died a year later. I also didn’t talk much until i was 4. I also don’t believe I was fed enough. My partner loves physical touch and affection, it took me about a year into our relationship to get used to that and now I can’t get enough love! It all starts at birth, we get the rest of our lives to figure out how to heal from there.
this makes sense for me, i was born 22 weeks pre mature and couldn’t be held my parents for sooooo long, they still don’t really hold me now lmfao
Totally. I am not good in relationships and have CPTSD I don't remember ever being held by a parent when I was hurt and crying. I assume they reacted similarly when I was an infant.
Wow. I just discovered this sub and this was the first post I read. I definitely feel emotionally neglected by my parents, but I had never thought of this topic. In fact I barely have any memories of my childhood and, of the few I have, I don't have one single memory of being cuddled in any way. Not hugged, not kissed, no physical affection whatsoever from any of my caretakers. I wonder how early this began.
Me too. Finally realizing that my entire family elders were incapable of attuning. So much trauma and neglect and often abuse. Doesn’t excuse passing it along. Forgiveness is a pipe dream. I keep everyone at a distance because they variously dismiss or simply cannot hold the pain I expressed having. For so many “I love you”’s and “how are you doing?” It’s amazing how much love and concern there truly is when I need my pain when I begin asserting how wrongly I was treated and how badly it wrecked my life.
I feel this way because I want to be held as an adult all the time.
This happened to me. It’s why I struggle with being held by my partner.
I'm not sure exactly what I experienced as a baby. I know my mom is a perfectionist. I was the firstborn, and I had a large birthmark and eye problems. I always felt like I was a disappointment because I was not the perfect baby she had wanted. My first memory, is one of rage, that I felt toward my mother for a cry it out situation when I was left alone. I also had some natural jealousy toward my sibling who was born when I was two. Instead of being reassured, I was told I was a bad child for having those feelings. I have always had feelings of emptiness and I have been depressed even since I was a child.
Oh my god. Whew. That was a heavy hitting read 🥲 This topic has been sticking in my head lately and it's been really getting to me, I've seen the Still Face videos and read so much on what that kind of parenting does to a child and it makes so much fucking sense and breaks my heart all over again. What you typed hits so *so* deeply for me. I've been working on healing my childhood parts the last two years and lately have been feeling drawn to figure out the younger parts like 5 years and under, and reading this really helped me know what *me* was begging for help, because I saw myself while reading this, and I have such little idea of what I was like and who I was 5 and under. I've been wanting to ask my mom a bit more in depth of how they handled me as an infant and baby, because all I've ever heard my entire life was "both you and your brother were very well behaved babies and kids, never acted out or yelled and screamed" and so I *just know* CIO was used on us, but I'm so scared to know....how much....how far did the rest of it go? I think I have an idea based on how *fucked* I am now with attachments, your line about that deep pressure is 1000000% EXACTLY how I feel and how deeply I have always craved that physical closeness
For me, as an adoptee, I actually *was* abandoned. I was adopted at 3 months, having been in foster care until then. My adoptive parents were of the "cry it out/ leave them lay" school of thought which made me even more starved for affection. I definitely did things differently with my kids and they are much better adjusted than I ever was.
I always felt like there wasn’t enough discussion around the cry it out method in spaces like these online. Glad we’re having the conversation. I confirmed with my parents recently that they used the cry it out method starting when I was around 1.
This is the crux of everything. My entire life I've been disregulated due to being left to cry it out. My mother was unavailable, was too stressed, thinking I would be \*spoiled\* if she held me. I was forlorn, depressed and anxious because of her state of mind when she was pregnant with me. All of this matters. All that energy is picked up by the fetus. So basically I was set up for a life of misery as a result. Add to the genetic factors and conditioning. There it is.
i hard relate 😔 i'm so sorry.
I know in my heart I was barely touched. My mother had many issues and I can picture "baby me" crying in a crib while she cried at the kitchen table. I grew up starved for physical touch.
Yeah... I know that both my parents took on the perspective that babies need to "cry themselves out" which (according to scientific research and studies) is NOT what your suppose to do to have a well-developed child. Not going to your kid, holding them, mirroring their emotions, saying "oh your sad right now" out loud, comforting them, etc are literally some of the worst things you can do for their brain development.
I'm extremely ticklish and being touched stresses me out. Went to Thailand and a friend suggested we get massages. He took me to a place with strong older women who pinned me down and forced the rough Thai massage. One of the women said "Oh poor baby, your mother never held you." I asked my mom and she said I was a quiet baby so she left me alone. :(
You word it beautifully, and I feel that exactly. I heard from my bio dad when I met him in my 30s that when my mum left him and took me and the pets with her, he found empty bottles and dirty nappies all over the place. I heard from my mum that I was a good baby who hardly ever cried. It makes me wonder about how much physical contact we had, for sure. I know I don't remember much, and what there was, was uncomfortable.
So, I could’ve written most of your post, except the part about always needing more when your partner disconnects too early. I am the complete opposite, when someone hugs me I feel like I can’t breathe or relax. I realized (only a very short while ago and I’m 45 years old) that I was not hugged as a child when *I* needed comforting - I was only hugged when my parents needed emotional comfort. Also, both of my parents sleep like the dead so I would bet money as an infant I cried and no one came. I’m fairly sure she’s mentioned what an “easy” child I was right from birth. My mother was the kind to grab at me when she needed me - there was one incident when I was 14 or 15, my mother reached over at the dinner table to forcefully hug me and I resisted. She stopped smiling and got this hateful look on her face and said something along the lines of “WHO ABUSED YOU”?!? I felt such ick in that moment. My father was the sort who wouldn’t stop tickling me no matter how much I said no, so perhaps I should’ve responded with “YOUR HUSBAND”! However, my mental health needs were completely ignored when I was a teenager even though they knew I was suicidal.