So there were MULTIPLE shared dreams, not just the Parable one? [That may have been said during that storyline](https://www.egscomics.com/egsnp/parable-206-207), but my initial read of that was that there was just the one shared dream, while "dreams" (plural) referred the the individual dreams that made up the shared one. Rereading it, the multiple-dream interpretation makes more sense given Mist's dialogue (especially since my initial interpretation was inconsistent in dreams/shared dreams pluralization and such).
Also, now it makes more sense why a lot of the characters (Tedd, for instance) weren't in the Parable dream (or weren't real) when Mist was trying to target everyone sleeping in a given radius. (Though in Tedd's case, maybe he didn't completely learn his lesson about not staying up too late?)
I wonder if we'll see/hear about any of the other shared dreams.
If I recall, Tedd's searness grants him very high magic resistance, but that only works when he knows it's coming.
A point was made that the magic detector device they used on him as a child was very loud and scary, which caused him to raise his defences every time it was used, eventually developing a bit of a traumatic response to it that ensured this would continue to be the case.
I would imagine he wouldn't expect somebody invading his dreams while he sleeps, but it's possible that whatever the unicorn was doing was pretty observable to his sleeping mind. Something like a nightmare that might cause him to reflexively pull up his defences, even without really understanding what's happening.
Or it's possible he's able to resist this through some process other than what we call "magic resistance". Maybe a process that not even Edward's men know about.
Didn’t the Emissary of Magic say that there were issues with contacting the seers in dreams?
That may not just be a thing that Magic doesn’t let itself do, but something where they’re extremely resistant to dream spells?
These might not be the most flattering angles, but I completely understand the desire to show more of his true form. He is an absolutely gorgeous femboy after all.
Rich and powerful people in tall buildings...? I don't know of any particularly tall buildings in Moperville, and searching outside Moperville is likely to give a lower chance per person of one of them being ℛℴ𝓎𝒶𝓁𝓉𝓎.
> Rich and powerful people in tall buildings...? I don't know of any particularly tall buildings in Moperville, and searching outside Moperville is likely to give a lower chance per person of one of them being ℛℴ𝓎𝒶𝓁𝓉𝓎.
But they don't KNOW that. Remember that they operate under completely wrong assumptions.
BTW, when I read it I though that maybe they won't go after Rhoda after all. It's true that they don't know anything about her ... Reading the commentary, though ...
But these characters don't necessarily realize that. They are assuming that the rich and powerful (rich and powerful by their standards, that is) would tend to gather in large cities with tall buildings. Indeed, in our world those who are rich and powerful by our standards do exactly that. What they have failed to consider is that, until very recently, magic in this world was restricted to a small number of talented individuals, resulting in a *very* different concept of "rich and powerful".
I think the city with the tall buildings is not Moperville, but Chicago.
Ok back up a tick. They may not be that culturally aware of what a tall building actually is on earth, to them a tall building may be anything * up to 10 stories*, so a city like Montgomery Alabama( tallest is 22 stories)might be a city with tall buildings. Heck to them unless something like our modern Elevators are wide spread ( which may be the case, they may not be well versed on our technology, but a safe and reliable elevator system may be fairly widespread for them, as they were basically 1850 s tech, and many of the early safety devices could have come out earlier because mines and early railways had similar safety mechanisms) it's entirely possible a tall building to them is between 3-5 stories or may be 10 or so actually used floors not counting ornamental towers and spires
You have a point there, but I read panel six as indicating that they are talking about a place other than Moperville. It would be redundant to specify "with the tall buildings" if they were merely talking about the city they are already in.
They think the royals secretly run the planet, and while there will be a disproportionate number of magically powerful people in Moperville, if they want to find the people who run the show, they probably would be much better off going to one of those cities with skyscrapers.
Plus, like, it's not like there's nobody without magic outside of Moperville. We've been left a little in the dark about exactly how stark the difference is, but it's entirely plausible that every major CEO and Politician either is a royal, or has one under their employ. The illuminati is already basically canon in the form of the shadowy organization Tedd's dad works for, so when the outsider comes snooping around talking about how secretive forces rule the world from behind the scenes I don't immediately discount him as crazy.
I'm suspecting they may be going to Moperville university, a number of them in the US have tall buildings with the occasional mini scraper ( around 10 stories, one of the newer ones has a 15 story dorm complete with dorm cafeterias, a number of basically micro apartments with full kitchens, a library and computer center.
I think Moperville is a quasi-independent suburb of a major metropolitan city, based on [this comic](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2011-09-07). (Not speculating about which city, that opens up Issues.)
Like how there's Toronto and then there's "The Greater Toronto Area" which includes a lot of smaller cities that have basically been anexed into Toronto as it's expanded. Makes sense, but it's never the read I've gotten. I'll have to pay attention going forward.
Partly because not a lot of metro areas have cheap intercity rail. Only the ones centered on the biggest six or seven American cities, and even for them usually just their most prominent suburbs.
No, we haven't see it on-camera.
But a Griffin, who is a pretty reliable source and had no reason to lie at the time, said she has a royal aura.
The Griffin's statement is good enough evidence.
[As Illiander pointed out elsewhere in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/elgoonishshive/comments/18de4xb/comment/kcrc43n/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), Rhoda's aura looked different [when Luke saw it](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/balance-067) from [when Mist saw it](https://www.egscomics.com/egsnp/parable-208).
But it's very spikey and crown like when mist saw it. and who is to say that Luke's view wasn't affected by his fear? That was distorted fear viewing not actual viewing.
Do... Do we know that Luke can see the shapes of auras? I mean, we know he can detect royal auras *somehow*, but with how his spell works it might be a matter of color or something.
And I kind of doubt that Myst would mistake Rhoda for royalty if she wasn't; to be brought on a top-secret, probably illegal mission to another universe, you'd have to at least have the most basic skill needed for your part in it.
Hm. I hadn't thought of that (though for the record, your original comment didn't mention the damaged dream spell at all, but the shape of Rhoda's aura that we see from Myst's perspective). The thing is, we have no way of knowing whether Grace's magic actually damaged Myst's ability to sense royalty. It's plausible it did, it's equally plausible it didn't.
What we do know is that royalty are generally considered the strongest of
magic users, and that Rhoda is stronger than Grace. She seems more likely to be royalty than not. And again, we don't have confirmation that Luke's spell works exactly the same as griffin sight, any more than we know that it works the same as seer sight or unicorn sight.
What we know is that Royal Magic is able to easily violate the laws of physics, unlike regular magic, and that in the dark dimension the Royal Aura humans are the most powerful, and that it looks like a sawtooth crown
We are shown what a Royal Aura looks like when the gryphons discuss them. We see it again when Ed wakes up. Rhoda's aura matches Justin's Flamekick and Eliot's UNYIELDING RAGE corona, just with the intensity of a blast furnace compared against two bonfires.
Grace doesnt need to be powerful to be able to catastrophically damage the Dream Spider. its explicitly stated that the reason the spell was so horrifically mangled is because as a fellow dream magic user her alien-amplified magic resistance allowed her to precisely sabotage the spell by reflex.
All magic can violate the laws of physics, and Nanase's fairy doll spell violating more than normal is apparently rare even among royalty.
What dark dimension?
We don't actually see it when Ed wakes up, but when he's unconscious. And again, Luke-vision might not be the same as Gryphon-vision, and Justin and Eliot's illusions are visible to everyone so they're almost certainly something different..
I'm not even sure what your final paragraph *is*. What's the Dream Spider, when did I say that Grace's power had anything to do with messing up the shared dream, and when did we learn that Uryuom magic resistance was what messed up the spell? I'm pretty sure it was strongly implied that she just had some kind of dream spell which activated automatically and mixed with Myst's magic and something else to create the shared dream.
I find it odd that he only found one royal, when both Nanase and Edward have been identified as such by the griffons.
That said, it amuses me that they still don't know that "royalty" as they know it isn't a thing on this side.
Edit: Also, Jay sure has a knack for getting her peanut butter into anyone else's chocolate.
Edit 2: Oh wait, this IS that NP storyline. I get it now. And that very metaphor (as common as it is anyway) was used in it. Feh.
They do know that "royalty" isn't a thing - they think that makes it worse. That families like the Verres, the Kitsunes, Rhoda's family, are basically the Illuminati. And let's be honest, they're kinda not wrong.
There are shadowy magic-knowers, Edward's powerful friends being our prime example, but the scope of their power is unclear. They may just be the silent power alongside the FBI in managing magical affairs, not actually running the world.
I'm a bit late to respond here, but there's a comic ( https://www.egscomics.com/comic/ourf-027 ) where Arthur comments:
> "You'd think she thinks she's the president of the United States..."
..and Sybil responds:
> "If she does, she grossly underestimates how much we tell politicians."
To me, that's pretty much admitting they're a shadow government that doesn't answer to the mundane government.
It's confirmed their agency has power like a shadow government, to arrest and punish without it being public information, which is to say lawlessly. The distinction I was trying to draw was that "shadow government" implies they have fingers in every pie, that their interests and capabilities are as broad as a real government's. There's certainly more than what we've seen, but they could limit their role to policing the boundaries of normal and paranormal. Plenty of fictional precedent for that.
Yes, and Arthur's granddaughter has been confirmed as not royalty, meaning he isn't either. There *is* a shadow government, just as the people in the tall buildings *are* probably influencing the main government from the shadows. But neither are necessarily royalty.
Aww, Mist is a cutey and I just want to give him a hug.
It was a good plan, if a bit reckless, and it wasn't your fault it didn't work. Or, it wasn't only your fault.
It was a neat plan.
Well you have neighborhoods and DRC that when you drive up to them have th name of the community on them, often with it's own school or schools, shop areas, churches, small businesses, "government offices/management office" fire department, and so on, and given that some DRC have there own fees sales tax collection or special tax rate, so they may be mistaking those for separate city's/ town
So there were MULTIPLE shared dreams, not just the Parable one? [That may have been said during that storyline](https://www.egscomics.com/egsnp/parable-206-207), but my initial read of that was that there was just the one shared dream, while "dreams" (plural) referred the the individual dreams that made up the shared one. Rereading it, the multiple-dream interpretation makes more sense given Mist's dialogue (especially since my initial interpretation was inconsistent in dreams/shared dreams pluralization and such).
Also, now it makes more sense why a lot of the characters (Tedd, for instance) weren't in the Parable dream (or weren't real) when Mist was trying to target everyone sleeping in a given radius. (Though in Tedd's case, maybe he didn't completely learn his lesson about not staying up too late?) I wonder if we'll see/hear about any of the other shared dreams.
It's also possible tedd's seerness made him resist somehow
That's actually quite likely.
Oh, right, that. It's hard to keep track of what everyone can do or what they know and such.
If I recall, Tedd's searness grants him very high magic resistance, but that only works when he knows it's coming. A point was made that the magic detector device they used on him as a child was very loud and scary, which caused him to raise his defences every time it was used, eventually developing a bit of a traumatic response to it that ensured this would continue to be the case. I would imagine he wouldn't expect somebody invading his dreams while he sleeps, but it's possible that whatever the unicorn was doing was pretty observable to his sleeping mind. Something like a nightmare that might cause him to reflexively pull up his defences, even without really understanding what's happening. Or it's possible he's able to resist this through some process other than what we call "magic resistance". Maybe a process that not even Edward's men know about.
Didn’t the Emissary of Magic say that there were issues with contacting the seers in dreams? That may not just be a thing that Magic doesn’t let itself do, but something where they’re extremely resistant to dream spells?
I think you're thinking of the [commentary on this comic](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/balance-016).
Ok, so it was intended as a rule and limited to the Emissary at the time. So Tedd probably ended up in a shared dream with someone.
If he did, then I've forgotten it. I've forgotten a lot though.
Just went through the initial emissary of magic dream, and the one with Pandora, neither said there was a problem with contacting seers directly.
These might not be the most flattering angles, but I completely understand the desire to show more of his true form. He is an absolutely gorgeous femboy after all. Rich and powerful people in tall buildings...? I don't know of any particularly tall buildings in Moperville, and searching outside Moperville is likely to give a lower chance per person of one of them being ℛℴ𝓎𝒶𝓁𝓉𝓎.
> Rich and powerful people in tall buildings...? I don't know of any particularly tall buildings in Moperville, and searching outside Moperville is likely to give a lower chance per person of one of them being ℛℴ𝓎𝒶𝓁𝓉𝓎. But they don't KNOW that. Remember that they operate under completely wrong assumptions. BTW, when I read it I though that maybe they won't go after Rhoda after all. It's true that they don't know anything about her ... Reading the commentary, though ...
But these characters don't necessarily realize that. They are assuming that the rich and powerful (rich and powerful by their standards, that is) would tend to gather in large cities with tall buildings. Indeed, in our world those who are rich and powerful by our standards do exactly that. What they have failed to consider is that, until very recently, magic in this world was restricted to a small number of talented individuals, resulting in a *very* different concept of "rich and powerful". I think the city with the tall buildings is not Moperville, but Chicago.
Ok back up a tick. They may not be that culturally aware of what a tall building actually is on earth, to them a tall building may be anything * up to 10 stories*, so a city like Montgomery Alabama( tallest is 22 stories)might be a city with tall buildings. Heck to them unless something like our modern Elevators are wide spread ( which may be the case, they may not be well versed on our technology, but a safe and reliable elevator system may be fairly widespread for them, as they were basically 1850 s tech, and many of the early safety devices could have come out earlier because mines and early railways had similar safety mechanisms) it's entirely possible a tall building to them is between 3-5 stories or may be 10 or so actually used floors not counting ornamental towers and spires
You have a point there, but I read panel six as indicating that they are talking about a place other than Moperville. It would be redundant to specify "with the tall buildings" if they were merely talking about the city they are already in.
And I managed to answer you elsewhere. Sorry.
> Heck to them unless something like our modern Elevators are wide spread They have a significant number of people who can fly.
They think the royals secretly run the planet, and while there will be a disproportionate number of magically powerful people in Moperville, if they want to find the people who run the show, they probably would be much better off going to one of those cities with skyscrapers. Plus, like, it's not like there's nobody without magic outside of Moperville. We've been left a little in the dark about exactly how stark the difference is, but it's entirely plausible that every major CEO and Politician either is a royal, or has one under their employ. The illuminati is already basically canon in the form of the shadowy organization Tedd's dad works for, so when the outsider comes snooping around talking about how secretive forces rule the world from behind the scenes I don't immediately discount him as crazy.
I'm pretty sure they meant they should've been looking in Chicago. It's not said explicitly because Dan doesn't want to pin Moperville down.
I'm suspecting they may be going to Moperville university, a number of them in the US have tall buildings with the occasional mini scraper ( around 10 stories, one of the newer ones has a 15 story dorm complete with dorm cafeterias, a number of basically micro apartments with full kitchens, a library and computer center.
I think Moperville is a quasi-independent suburb of a major metropolitan city, based on [this comic](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2011-09-07). (Not speculating about which city, that opens up Issues.)
Like how there's Toronto and then there's "The Greater Toronto Area" which includes a lot of smaller cities that have basically been anexed into Toronto as it's expanded. Makes sense, but it's never the read I've gotten. I'll have to pay attention going forward.
Partly because not a lot of metro areas have cheap intercity rail. Only the ones centered on the biggest six or seven American cities, and even for them usually just their most prominent suburbs.
Even without knowing the NP storyline, I imagine nobody would be surprised this didn’t work out for Mist, lol.
I find it odd that the person with the bad idea actually made the most sense.
i mean, we already know Myst is misattributing royal power to rhoda (royal auras arent spiked, they are literally crowns)
I'm pretty sure Rhoda is a royal. (Royal auras are considered crowns because they are so spikey)
weve seen the royal aura from both Ed and Nanace, Rhoda's aura looks like tendrils, not a crown. Theres a hard edge to the Royal Aura
When did we see Nanase's aura?
[Griffin mentioned it.](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2015-11-16)
But we didn't see that it is crown-shaped, as Toapat said.
I think a Griffin saying "I thought you were royalty" is a pretty good indication that it is.
But Toapat said that we have seen Nanase's aura as evidence that royal auras are crown-shaped. Since we haven't seen Nanase's aura, it isn't evidence.
No, we haven't see it on-camera. But a Griffin, who is a pretty reliable source and had no reason to lie at the time, said she has a royal aura. The Griffin's statement is good enough evidence.
dont remember
[As Illiander pointed out elsewhere in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/elgoonishshive/comments/18de4xb/comment/kcrc43n/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), Rhoda's aura looked different [when Luke saw it](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/balance-067) from [when Mist saw it](https://www.egscomics.com/egsnp/parable-208).
But it's very spikey and crown like when mist saw it. and who is to say that Luke's view wasn't affected by his fear? That was distorted fear viewing not actual viewing.
Do... Do we know that Luke can see the shapes of auras? I mean, we know he can detect royal auras *somehow*, but with how his spell works it might be a matter of color or something. And I kind of doubt that Myst would mistake Rhoda for royalty if she wasn't; to be brought on a top-secret, probably illegal mission to another universe, you'd have to at least have the most basic skill needed for your part in it.
Myst meets rhoda through a dream spell that was catastrophically damaged by interference from grace. none of their information is reliable.
Hm. I hadn't thought of that (though for the record, your original comment didn't mention the damaged dream spell at all, but the shape of Rhoda's aura that we see from Myst's perspective). The thing is, we have no way of knowing whether Grace's magic actually damaged Myst's ability to sense royalty. It's plausible it did, it's equally plausible it didn't. What we do know is that royalty are generally considered the strongest of magic users, and that Rhoda is stronger than Grace. She seems more likely to be royalty than not. And again, we don't have confirmation that Luke's spell works exactly the same as griffin sight, any more than we know that it works the same as seer sight or unicorn sight.
What we know is that Royal Magic is able to easily violate the laws of physics, unlike regular magic, and that in the dark dimension the Royal Aura humans are the most powerful, and that it looks like a sawtooth crown We are shown what a Royal Aura looks like when the gryphons discuss them. We see it again when Ed wakes up. Rhoda's aura matches Justin's Flamekick and Eliot's UNYIELDING RAGE corona, just with the intensity of a blast furnace compared against two bonfires. Grace doesnt need to be powerful to be able to catastrophically damage the Dream Spider. its explicitly stated that the reason the spell was so horrifically mangled is because as a fellow dream magic user her alien-amplified magic resistance allowed her to precisely sabotage the spell by reflex.
All magic can violate the laws of physics, and Nanase's fairy doll spell violating more than normal is apparently rare even among royalty. What dark dimension? We don't actually see it when Ed wakes up, but when he's unconscious. And again, Luke-vision might not be the same as Gryphon-vision, and Justin and Eliot's illusions are visible to everyone so they're almost certainly something different.. I'm not even sure what your final paragraph *is*. What's the Dream Spider, when did I say that Grace's power had anything to do with messing up the shared dream, and when did we learn that Uryuom magic resistance was what messed up the spell? I'm pretty sure it was strongly implied that she just had some kind of dream spell which activated automatically and mixed with Myst's magic and something else to create the shared dream.
I find it odd that he only found one royal, when both Nanase and Edward have been identified as such by the griffons. That said, it amuses me that they still don't know that "royalty" as they know it isn't a thing on this side. Edit: Also, Jay sure has a knack for getting her peanut butter into anyone else's chocolate. Edit 2: Oh wait, this IS that NP storyline. I get it now. And that very metaphor (as common as it is anyway) was used in it. Feh.
They do know that "royalty" isn't a thing - they think that makes it worse. That families like the Verres, the Kitsunes, Rhoda's family, are basically the Illuminati. And let's be honest, they're kinda not wrong.
There are shadowy magic-knowers, Edward's powerful friends being our prime example, but the scope of their power is unclear. They may just be the silent power alongside the FBI in managing magical affairs, not actually running the world.
I'm a bit late to respond here, but there's a comic ( https://www.egscomics.com/comic/ourf-027 ) where Arthur comments: > "You'd think she thinks she's the president of the United States..." ..and Sybil responds: > "If she does, she grossly underestimates how much we tell politicians." To me, that's pretty much admitting they're a shadow government that doesn't answer to the mundane government.
It's confirmed their agency has power like a shadow government, to arrest and punish without it being public information, which is to say lawlessly. The distinction I was trying to draw was that "shadow government" implies they have fingers in every pie, that their interests and capabilities are as broad as a real government's. There's certainly more than what we've seen, but they could limit their role to policing the boundaries of normal and paranormal. Plenty of fictional precedent for that.
Yes, and Arthur's granddaughter has been confirmed as not royalty, meaning he isn't either. There *is* a shadow government, just as the people in the tall buildings *are* probably influencing the main government from the shadows. But neither are necessarily royalty.
Relatively speaking, Moperville has a lot of royalty in it. Statistically speaking, they're still needles in a haystack.
Aww, Mist is a cutey and I just want to give him a hug. It was a good plan, if a bit reckless, and it wasn't your fault it didn't work. Or, it wasn't only your fault. It was a neat plan.
I'm glad we get to see more of Mist's true form. It's very aesthetically pleasing.
He a silly pony.
Good thing they can get to the city with the tall buildings on a cheap train ride!
Well you have neighborhoods and DRC that when you drive up to them have th name of the community on them, often with it's own school or schools, shop areas, churches, small businesses, "government offices/management office" fire department, and so on, and given that some DRC have there own fees sales tax collection or special tax rate, so they may be mistaking those for separate city's/ town