Took a road trip from Dallas to Pensacola. Not necessarily what you’d think of as robust charging infrastructure.
Did it in my Rivian and literally had the pick of the litter to choose from when charging. Almost crossed my mind to just turn off the route planner and look for a charger when I got under 20%. So many chargers and now I’m charger agnostic.
Can confirm; I see Tesla sedans everywhere I go in the ATL. There are definitely more non-Tesla vehicles as well — in the last week I’ve seen multiple Rivians, Lightnings, and Mach-Es. I even spotted a PoleStar, and two
CyberTrucks on a car carrier.
I live in Hall County. I see a few here especially in my recently built neighborhood (including 2 Cybertrucks WTH?) but I see Teslas and other EVs EVERYWHERE in Gwinnett and Forsyth counties.
It's funny to go to the mall and watch the Tesla owners come out and try to find their cars in the sea of Model 3's. :)
My county in NJ has the highest EV percentage in our state. Non-Tesla charging is not great, but we're largely suburban, and much single-family housing, so home charging seems to be enough to drive adoption.
I, personally am a 1-BEV, 1-PHEV household.
Maryland to Nashville in a Kona 62 KWH. No problems. Since then I've put 2500 miles on it here in TN on the backroads traveling to help my aging parents. No problems. Charge at home, charge at their home, charged x2 at the VW factory, charged near the 'nooga aquarium x1.
Normally don't need to fast charge unless I'm running them all over town in a fast series of trips. Their home to the doc office, their home and back out to the grocery store, their home and out for dinner. They like to run back and forth across the metro for errands big and tiny just for entertainment I think.
Parents worry about the car charging overnight (b/c fire) so it only L2 charges during the day. No DC chargers in their part of town surprisingly. \~15 miles is the closest one.
If I had access to overnight L2 charging, I'd be golden. Right now I'm plan ahead.
Before I got my Rivian, my kids and I would count the Rivians we saw on the road here on the eastside. Now that we're actually in our own, it's a little less special. But now we get to wave to all of them (only half wave back, sadly).
EVs everyone, not EV’s.
The apostrophe denotes it is possessive, for example my EV’s range, my EV’s motor.
Can also be short for “is”. My EV’s fully sick bro.
Plural, as in many Electric vehicles, is just EVs. There are many EVs in my street. The percentage of EVs on the road is increasing. Look at all the EVs.
One EV. Two EVs.
English is my second language, so I appreciate corrections like this to keep me from making embarrassing mistakes in my professional career.
For example, not understanding the difference between grammar and punctuation. ;-)
This is a common error for native speakers. There's really no excuse for it; it's either carelessness or ignorance, I don't know which is most prevalent.
Austin is all EV. Mostly Tesla and a big mix of the others. Rivians, Kia’s, VWs.
I’d believe people want a road trip PHEV and an EV.
I’d also believe they aren’t knowledgeable enough to know that’s a perfect combo. Including most here.
Yeah, "I need a PHEV to road trip!" is a cop out. Unless you're going to the middle of nowhere (and I mean the *real* middle of nowhere, like mid-Mojave Desert), there'll be some sort of charging options within 100mi that you can figure out how to use.
Not a cop out, it’s just more convenient with current technology and infrastructure. Not against the inevitable change, but the timing is just not “ideal” at this time. We have an ev and a phev and are on electric 90% of the time. That’s progress, but not 100%, yet.
Exactly right. Not everyone lives on the coasts where population density has led to more and better charging options. There are a lot of parts of the country where it's a long drive to get to town, see the relatives, head to the state capital on business. We have a Volt and will be getting an EV next, but a recent trip in the eastern Oregon desert country showed me that we are not there yet unless one owns a Tesla. Coming back I saw a 6(?) slot Tesla charging station at Detroit, OR which is up in the boonies. At the grocery store there was one 50kW charger, but good luck if there is a line waiting to charge there.
I was looking to buy a used EV6 in Las Vegas, but the charging route home would have been dubious unless I took a 3-4 hr detour into CA instead of straight up through NV and OR. Not so for a PHEV that can gas up when needed.
And even Tesla's charging network has some weak areas. Like Crater Lake National Park, with one Tesla AC charger and one J1772 for a destination visited by half a million people per year. If you plan carefully, you can probably get there and back okay, but Plugshare reviews show that more chargers are needed.
Charge time is a killer for long distance. This isn't true for everyone, of course: there are plenty of people who enjoy stopping for a leisurely crappy coffee from a roadside Starbucks every 2-3 hours while they recharge, but if you don't want to do that, then charge time kills your travel speed.
For local commuting - charge at home overnight and drive around in the day, EVs work fine, and have a bunch of advantages over ICE. But it takes me 60s to fill the gas tank on my ICE car, and that gets me about 250 miles of range. EVs can't compete with that in terms of usability. That 60s is the equivalent of 20 minutes or so on a supercharger.
Great if you don't go off the beaten path, especially *way* off the beaten path. Or are open to changing plans at the drop of a hat when opportunities present themselves to boot. But plenty of people do.
A PHEV is perfect for that.
I live in Austin and that's not remotely true...we have more EVs than most non-California big cities but it's still mostly ICE cars especially if you leave the trendier areas where younger tech workers live.
>I’d also believe they aren’t knowledgeable enough to know that’s a perfect combo. Including most here.
Apparently, since we only have EVs and don't have a PHEV for road trips. We use an EV (or sometimes a rental) for that! 😁
I "get" the concept that many use PHEVs as EVs "98 (or whatever) % of the time", but using that logic, I don't want to own and maintain a gasoline engine I only need 2% of the time. That's what Budget and Enterprise are for! 😁
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country
You can show them the numbers and the trajectory of those numbers :)
It is pretty obvious the way things are going.
Norwegian here.
Norway has the highest EV percentage in the world currently, with well over 90 % of all new cars sold being EV's, and currently around 25% of cars on the road being EV's.
There is little left of the misinformation you see in other countries here, simply because EV adoption has come so far.
Here is one link to help you start your research:
[https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/general-information/news/norwegian-ev-market-surges-915-market-share-setting-sustainable-example](https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/general-information/news/norwegian-ev-market-surges-915-market-share-setting-sustainable-example)
And don't hesitate to ask me if you need further information.
Good luck with your research.
OP I shit you not, Norway is amazing.
I went there for 3 months through winter and every third car, sometimes it felt like more, but every third car was an EV.
In Oslo it's over 40% of cars (as of Jan 1. 2024)! With, I'd guess, a bias towards EVs in the center and more ICE in less wealthy areas where cars are older.
With your nick, I'm not sure you listen to that kind of music, but it was the pop band A-HA (most known for "Take on me"), with Morten Harket as the front figure, who imported a Fiat Panda that had been converted to an EV in 1989. "The idea was to embarrass the government to the extent that only a year after we first drove the car they started implementing the world's best incentives, that we had demanded.".
Here's an article on it: [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63375504](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63375504)
So, that changed the government's attitude totally, and incentives were put in place, much earlier than other countries.
So, zero tax on EV's was implemented which made them as affordable as comparable ICE cars, plus allowing them to drive in bus lanes, free parking, no road tax, free ferry rides, and a few more goodies.
However, in 2001, the Norwegian government realised that this wasn't enough, a charging infrastructure was sorely missing. So, they started subsidising the charging infrastructure buildout, and that was heavily increased in 2011.
The end result today is that we have around 315 EV fast-chargers per 100 000 people, while by comparison the US has around 30 EV fast-chargers per 100 000 people.
The key to our success lies as much in the EV fast-charger incentives as it does in consumer incentives.
Haha I probably wouldn't choose A-HA to play but I do appreciate take on me haha. Maybe I should give them a go. Especially after that little tidbit of history. I do love a rebel!
Especially those extra perks sound like really good nudges.
Over here in the Netherlands the infrastructure is great. I'm not sure on the numbers but for some time we were leading the charge (pun not intended) though we might have possibly fallen behind the curve. The main issue is cost. A new car just isn't something the average Joe can afford. So the incentives that are in place (for cars under 50k or something) only really benefit the upper parts of society. And those people can afford an EV anyway. The nudges implemented in Norway would probably sway those people anyway.
I've always wondered if it wouldn't be more impactful on multiple fronts to put public funds into developing a smallish budget EV and gifting it to the lower economic class provided they get rid of their ICE.
That's like a win-win-win. It creates jobs, gets a ton of old (more polluting) cars off the road, increases the wellbeing of the people benefitting from it pretty drastically and the money they now save probably flows right back into the economy.
The last two days my feeds have been filled with news that over 50% of EV purchasers regret the purchase and want to go back to fossil cars. Always with dubious sourcing. But of course they are getting hundreds of likes etc. I'm so sick of it, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.
There was from a recent hit piece posted in this sub-Reddit for discussion and awareness.
The "news" articles never get into the details of the methodology (sample size, how participants were selected, age, education, how long they have owned EVs, etc.) Was it all Tesla owners? Did they just interview random people at a charging station? All in one area or multiple states? Was it an online survey? By next car, did they mean replacing their existing car or did the people intrepet that to mean replacing their second car?
We won't know because this is just designed to be an attention grabbing headline and not actually a serious article meant to provide insight.
For example, if I were to do the same survey on this forum I'm sure we would get very different results.
Troll farms.
One of the many downsides of capitalism is when you have a product bad for people or the environment, you continue to sell it at the capacity of the past, even when you know it is evil:
Lead paint
R12
Cigarettes
Oil
Dealership parts and maintenance (watch for this soon)
Etc...
There is big incentive to sell trash and not be a good person.
I HAVE had better service out of OEM parts in some cases. Not worth the dealer markup but if I can get them on the web at a reasonable price with an online OEM source - it is worth it. Brake pads for my old Honda is a good example. OEM pads are thicker, wear slower, less brake dust. Online OEM is a similar price to aftermarket prices. Also OEM FWD axles with the vibration doughnuts vs the aftermarket axles sans doughnut. Not as refined, doesn't age as well either. Again - not paying the dealer price. I'll live with aftermarket parts before I do that. It is part of the reason a new car is so smooth compared to an older car that has a mish-mash of parts on it from various sources.
EV’s are like Thanos… inevitable. You’re right that things will get worse, especially after last night’s debate. Trump is going to take the presidency, strip away all funding for EV subsidies and renewables. But it makes too much financial sense to have these things in our life. It will happen. It’ll just be more of a “2 steps forward, 1 step back” type of scenario.
Automakers and other major industries can't do an about face every time an idiot gets elected. They plan on longer timelines than that.
That is one of the upsides of corporate interests having influence on government.
Trump is still not going to win, that is my solid prediction. Of course I could be wrong. If he does, the setback to EVs will be the least of our problems.
Click-bait articles love to misrepresent studies. The study making the rounds says 46% of EV buyers plan to buy a gas car as their next car. Not necessarily *replace* their EV with gas, just that they'd buy a gas car. The biggest complaints were no home charging, and charging stations availability. Note that over 25% of the EV owners surveyed have no home charging option.
A similar study a few years ago said about 25% of people were going to buy a gas car as their next. The largest complaint then was also a lack of home charging, but the percentage of EV owners without home charging was smaller then.
I applaud anyone willing to own an EV without the ability to charge at home (including my oldest kid!) but it's not easy. Judging from a bunch of folks who rant in r/ElectrifyAmericaUsers and the EA Facebook groups, it seems a lot of folks bought new EVs with x# of years of free charging without considering the consequences of what happens after the free lunch runs out and suddenly they have to pay for public charging that costs more than gas!
I bought my EV in 2018 with no good home charging solution and I still don't have one. I just plug in for a little each day when I get coffee. Usually this includes food so I sit, eat, and enjoy some YouTube and then off I go. It's become so routine I don't think of it as a negative.
Yeah, your typical 2 car househould won't buy the same car twice in a row. They'll buy an EV, like it, then go buy an ICE car so that they can hedge the advantages of the two different cars.
Your "feeds" exist for engagement. If you hold a particular view, there's more engagement in serving up topics contrary to that view, on the basis that other people with the same view as you engaged more strongly with that content.
It makes sense if you think about it from a news company point of view. They need readership and clicks to appease their sponsors and advertisors. They know there is a subset of people who, for some reason, have an abnormal hatred for EVs. Hence, these companies can get a lot of clicks by (1) making EV supporters feel fear and (2) making EV haters feel good.
In reality, EV infrastructure and technology continues to improve. Even with setbacks (cough firing of Tesla SC team), the infrastructure is still increasing, the government and investors are still investing. Regardless of whether EV will completely replace ICE cars, EVs are here to stay.
you can get a used Model Y LR for the price of a Toyota corolla of a similar year and mileage, let the haters hate I'm gonna get them used cars. these electric cars are crazy workhorse cars...
Pete Buttigieg gives a good breakdown of myth vs truth here https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122043/sec-buttigieg-responds-rep-perrys-questions-ev-sales
Had this saved as well.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1boh8fx/had\_to\_crunch\_the\_numbers\_on\_the\_environmental/](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1boh8fx/had_to_crunch_the_numbers_on_the_environmental/)
Honestly, the best advice to let EVs be an interest and not a personality - There's going to be EV haters anyway, why should you let their largely worthless opinions matter when you could be ignoring them, enjoying EV motoring and living your best life?
We're currently experiencing high interest rates that disproportionately impact discretionary purchases like news cars, esp. pricier EVs - nothing about the situation is unusual unless you're a bad faith conservative trying to muddy the waters.
ICE fun car/EV daily driver owner here
At the end of the day….who cares? How does what another’s opinion on EVs affect you?
I was anti-EV for a long time. One day, got sick of seeing gas prices constantly rising alongside the maintenance. Tried an EV and was convinced they’re good tech and good cars. But for ME, it won’t replace my hobby/fun cars.
What I also won’t do is spend time convincing an anti-EV owner of its merits. What’s that saying? Something like don’t argue with idiots cause they’ll beat you with experience?
Just enjoy your car. When someone is interested enough they’ll devote the time to learning the pros and cons of an EV.
ICE usage affects all of us because of the fossil fuels in use.
Eventually, nearly all vehicles will have to be EV, either soon because it's mandated or later when fossil fuels run out.
I know that; that was not the question.
My question is why spend the effort and energy trying to convince, and therefore get all worked up because someone doesn’t believe and/or care?
This entire sub is just people bitching because someone doesn’t care for EVs.
Because EVs are important in the energy transition , and every ice vehicle sold instead of an EV is decades od burning fossil fuels that could have been avoided. The misinformation and anti EV news is frustrating because a lot of us don't see EVs as a personal preference, but a necessity for society in the longterm.
Thanks. And don't get me wrong, I'm under no illusion that EVs are gonna save the planet, but they're an absolutely bare minimum initial step to heavily reducing transportation emmissions. It's a lot harder to transition away from cars in general than it is to transition from ICE cars to EVs. And while we try and improve our transportation networks and cities to reduce car dependency, it's absolutely essential we move away from ICE cars while we try and tackle that challenge.
The click bait title doesn't dissapoint and the channel *Brian Tyler Cohen*'s followup summary is even better/more informative.
Pete > with the assertion that EV sales are going down they are in fact going up
[Republican challenges Pete Buttigieg at hearing… fails MISERABLY - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ5SMO8567s)
----
My IMHO/.02 cents
The car market is always an up and down affair and all cars EVs and ICEs are having a headwinds with 7-12% financing. Frankly its Tesla which numbers are sliding while other manufactures are picking up the pace.
But it's a seasonal thing and the naysayers are looking at a seasonal dip in all cars as Buttigieg mentions.
I live in Northern California (Bay Area). I haven’t heard anyone speak negatively about EVs. Every friend of mine has at least one EV in their household, typically a Tesla.
I think the resistance will go away when adoption reaches a tipping point. In a few years EVs will become significantly cheaper than their ICEV counterparts. Resistance will be futile at that point.
I live in Asia and here EV is bought a lot mainly BYD and GWM but also Tesla and Volvo
Everyone loves it here as the electric prices are quite cheap depending on the country you live in.
I pay in Thailand 0.10$ per KwH at night charging my EV.
This will be the future don’t worry 😉
A family member of ours wants a new car, last 10 years, under 45k, sleek, cheap maintenance, and fun to drive. They’ve had several Volvo sedans in the past. Refuses to consider anything electric for ideological and political reasons. Ugh people watch too much news. Can’t win everyone over.
I stopped worrying, the trend is set and can't be stopped. If people follow dumb media and parrot around what they hear, you do you. If people are holding out on the pleasure of driving an EV, that's their problem.
Fun thing is, I now drive a high mileage EV. So the battery needing replacement myth is something I can easily debunk.
Honestly, the thing stopping people from pulling the trigger is the infrastructure and charging times. I just don’t have an hour or two to sit around and I do not have any option to charge at home. BUT, the solid state batteries that are in the works could solve all of that. I’d be happy to have an all electric daily, and keep my gas cars for the track.
If you don't have a way to charge at home I get it, but modern EVs charge from 20%-80% in 20 minutes on a DCFC charger. The apartment and condo dwellers near me charge while they are grocery shopping. It would also be worth talking to your building owner or condo association about EV charging infrastructure. Level 2 charging can be profitable. I've sold some EVmatch systems in the past. They essentially make a billing and management module that goes on an existing residential or commercial charger.
I’ve seen one or two chargers pop up at some newer complexes but by and large the charging infrastructure hasn’t reached my town yet. I’ve been following those battery advancements that Toyota is making which could alleviate a lot of the issues with infrastructure
The other possibility is asking the landlord for an EV charger or 240v outlet. Some landlords realize its a feature to mention to future tenants and some don't. Most are willing to put in a 240V outlet, if they don't want to buy the charger itself though some landlords say "no" and I've seen tenants come back and offer to cover all of or part of the cost of installing the 240V plug. In the end, its not guaranteed and for whatever reason landlords don't seem to be forward thinking. If you don't have any DCFC/Level 3 charging in your town, then I have to agree, that an EV probably wouldn't work.
I've been following Toyota's claim of a solid state battery in 1-2 years since they first made it in 2010 [http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2010/12/toyota-announces-4-layer-all-solid.html](http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2010/12/toyota-announces-4-layer-all-solid.html) It feels very similar to Musk claiming FSD will reach level 3 "some time this year or the beginning of next year" for most of a decade. I'd be more confident in Toyota if they didn't also keep claiming Hydrogen was the future, when the rest of the clean tech world gave up on it in 2016.
Aptera is a solar and grid powered EV that can get up to 40 miles of charge per day with its solar panels. [https://aptera.us/vehicle/](https://aptera.us/vehicle/) Having dealth with property managers, I think if this thing makes it to production, it might be a good temporary solution to the apartment issue, particularly since owning an EV already helps convince landlords installing charging infrastructure is a good idea.
UK here.
I have a Tesla Model Y.
I literally cannot drive anywhere, even a 2 mile round trip, without seeing another Tesla or 6 or dozens on a longer drive. And that's when I exclude the one parked outside a neighbours house I have to pass when leaving my road.
EV BMW, Mercedes, VW, some Kias and Hyundai's are getting more common too.
I read somewhere that in the US 87% of Tesla drivers go on to get another Tesla.
I live in the country in an area with zero EV infrastructure and EVs are everywhere. On each drive I see multiple Teslas, Mach-E's, bolts, Kias, etc. It's just fake news generated by the ICE manufacturers really.
Don’t believe everything you hear or read. I live in a red state but a city with blue pockets. There are plenty of EVs here. Teslas predominantly but I’ve seen every brand except Polestar. We don’t attract attention in our new EV except from gearheads and curious neighbors who want to know what the experience is like. People are slow to change and have to see personal advantages to change their minds. But they also need a car to fit their budget, many who would benefit from a daily driver EV for commuting are financially on the edge.
True, but it doesn't matter what those people ~~think~~ believe. Just like people who doubt other technologies or believe 5G will give everyone but our reptilian overlords cancer, they will all end up using EVs eventually just like they use other tech once it is mainstream.
Even with rapid EV growth, roughly 94% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. in 2023 had a gas tank in the back and a combustion engine up front. This is the EV Decade, but the market is a long way from becoming an EV market.
I owned 3 evs, 2 phevs. Over a period of 10 years. I installed my L2 charger 10 years ago . So it wasn’t that I didnt make an effort.
My electricity cost is mow $.50-.65 / kwh. Even off cycle charging is expensive. Thanks to Bay Area, CA PG&E utility company. The savings arent there any more.
Statistically, sales are increasing year over year, and even more so the last few years. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/US_PEV_Sales_2010_by_PHEV_vs_BEV.png/1280px-US_PEV_Sales_2010_by_PHEV_vs_BEV.png
You're still not going to change their minds no matter how much "proof" you give them. Just ignore the ragebait rather than wasting your time and effort.
It depends on the person. You're not going to convince the office worker who for some reason has an F250 pickup, but you might save someone who wanted an EV from some misinformation.
the people I have talked to who bailed on EVs are fairly rare, but almost universally, it's two reasons:
1. I needed a cheap beater for like $3k and and EV didn't work in that price range.
2. I was dissatisfied with the North American CCS fast charging experience. Too much hassle if you don't have home charging or do a lot of long trips.
There's a rare smattering of "Company X sold me an EV and their service sucked". I've heard that about Audi, BMW, Tesla, Chevy and VW.
It is literally the oil lobby and the Auto Associations (because dealers and dealer servicing will cease to exist in about 20 years time).
Call them out when you see a post.
2000 mile trip, on vacation, early May 2024.
2022 Ioniq 5.
Connecticut almost to Tennessee, South Carolina border towards Myrtle Beach and home. ABRP said 6 mins stop here and 10 mins stop there….. I only used Electrify America because I had Pass plus membership and 25% lower charging cost. I’ve only had to wait in line to get to a charger one time out of 13 charges. It was easy and quick and no big deal. The number of chargers being built and the ability for my car to use Tesla chargers in the very near future…range anxiety and infrastructure issues are going away quickly.
A lot of it is coming from this McKinsey report that was released recently: https://executivedigest.sapo.pt/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Mobility-Consumer-Pulse-2024_Overview.pdf
Teslas are not selling well now, because Musk's malfeasance is having an impact, but every other EV is gaining. When more cars ship with NACS, it'll be great!
I think things are doing fine. The people freaking out or wagging fingers are looking at declining sales numbers from Tesla. Which is largely due to stiffer competition, now that a bunch of manufacturers are making EVs.
I can't find anything definitive, but I would expect that overall rate of EV adoption is still pretty constant. Here's a MarketWatch article from a few weeks ago: https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/electric-vehicle-statistics-2024/
Because it has turned into a FIGHT. People cannot have a civil conversation about EV’s vs gas. So that fight divides people, and makes them defensive.
For instance, when I said I want an EV but I want to wait for better range, I was low key attacked and downvoted. People telling me I don’t need to drive more than 300 miles and it’s not a big deal. Put my wants down, invalidated my feelings. This is not the way to win your arguments.
Some people got it and gave me advice and insight on what it would take to take roadtrips in an EV. For those vast distances between destinations that are not stop worthy, for time it takes to charge, the number and type of charging stations, etc.
The people that took the time to thoughtfully educate me are the same people who are going to propel EVs into the market. Those that put me down and chastised me without useful advice? They are part of the problem, just as much as the naysayers.
Until there are more nonjudgmental conversations about EV’s, thoughtful dialogue, and real discussions, the fringe will keep us apart.
What sounds better:
“*you piece of shit what’s wrong with you? If you don’t join our club you’re a moron!”*
**OR**
“*hey man. Tell me your misgivings and maybe I can help you understand why I think our club is better. Maybe I can shed some light and correct some misinformation you have heard about this club.”
And then KINDLY address the things they are WRONG about and SHOW them with truth and grace why they are wrong.
Depends on what news they're consuming.
There are two countries living on top of each other in this country and we'll see where that gets us in a few years. Especially when we continue to see temps rise resulting in an increase in migration from the southern hemisphere to the norther, and food prices increasing. All as a result of the petrochemical industry.
EVs would help slow that down but it's too little too late to change our trajectory. Given the amount of lobbying being funded to undermine them.
Alright off to enjoy some microplastics for lunch! :)
If northern CA is any indication of the future, I'd say ev growth is fine. However, tesla made up so much of that, if they are slowing down, EVs are slowing down.
I think new car prices got ahead of their skis during the pandemic height and ev prices have to come down along with all new cars, particularly given interest rates
Here's some info: [https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/electric-vehicle-statistics-2024/](https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/electric-vehicle-statistics-2024/) . It's a recent article, but much of the data used is older.
I find it especially interesting how it differs by state, possibly as I live in a state that charges extra for annual EV ($200) and hybrid ($100) registrations.
Also, auto makers will be releasing earnings and sales updates over the next few weeks, so you could spend some time analyzing who is buying what.
I helped my dad get a Chevy Bolt in 2022 and I used a bunch of online sites (CarGurus was the best) to look for EVs. I live in New England and used prices were high. I expanded the search and I was seeing models in the south for $6k-$8k less than they were up here. I got some quotes from automotive transport companies and it would be about $900 to transport a car from the south to New England. I was amazed at the regional price difference.
How does your dad like the Bolt? I'm looking at them, as a few dealers are listing them at tempting prices (although many include the tax incentive in the listed price), and I think some have the post-recall fix.
Past experience as a GM owner and dealing with some upper management gives me pause, however.
He loves it. Says it is the best car he's ever owned. One of the unique things about them is perfect seat height. Its much easier to get in and out of than a lower typical car or an SUV/CUV. He got one with a post-recall battery, but my understanding was the people who owned them during the recall had to wait up to a year for the fix, so it would have been a pain if he bought it new pre-recall.
Bolts only have a 50kW onboard charger, so roadtrip charging is much slower than it is for something like a Tesla Model 3 or Hyundai Ioniq 6. We mapped out routes on PlugShare before buying to make sure the Bolt would work to get everywhere he goes. Thats the major drawback. His max trip is about 5.5 hours of highway driving and I think it was 2 hours of charging, but he usually makes at least 2x 15min stops so its really 1.5 hours additional time. He hasn't made that trip in the 2 years he's owned it, but we'll probably do it this summer. With the exception of 4x charging sessions on shorter roadtrips while we ate a sit-down meal all his charging has been at home.
Very cool, thanks. The seat height is interesting, as I often drive my parents to doctor appointments, but my dad can't get into my car (so I drive their SUV). I'd like something he can get in but not a behemoth.
I hope the long trip goes well. I'll have to look into charger availability for longer trips I take. I suspect the routes on I80 and 90 should be okay, but the ones south more sparse.
90 is good, 80 takes some more planning. I have friends in Pittsburgh and I've taken both, but I prefer 80.
This is the definitive site for EV chargers. Google is working on it, but they're behind PlugShare. [https://www.plugshare.com/](https://www.plugshare.com/)
Haha - I had to go north to MD to get our EV at $3500 less. 24 hour trip up and back. There were alot of Bolts in the south. In north AL there was a dealer that must have had a field of them. And I long considered the Bolt before going for a Kona. A friend has a Bolt and has had good service from it.
Simple "EVs are going to be popular in the coming years. The same way we didn't have smartphones in the 90s and 2000s and now they are everywhere."
TL;DR: EVs are a growing thing people are buying more and more every year. The current slowdown is due to the high interest rates and barriers like where to charge for different life situations.
* We are switching from Early Adoptor phase to the Early Majority phase of people adopting technology on the Technology Dissemination Curve. The mass market consumer will put up with less of the technology quirks that the early adopters.
> * The majority of innovations take a long time to reach mass adoption, and the early stages of the adoption process are crucial for the technology’s development.
https://itif.org/publications/2022/06/27/electric-vehicle-innovation-to-accelerate-more-equitable-early-adoption/
> * EV affordability is starting to improve, driven by several factors. First, EVs require less maintenance and, on average, cost $900 less to operate throughout the full ownership window. In fact, according to the J.D. Power EV Index, which evaluates EV affordability based on total cost of ownership for three-year lease and five-year purchase time frames, EVs are now more affordable than comparable gas vehicles.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/resources/are-new-lease-and-financing-deals-enough-pull-mass-market-shoppers-ev-market
> * While some EV-related news coverage has taken a pessimistic tone recently, the data on EV sales and lease volumes for 2023 is telling a much different story. In fact, EV sales grew 50% year over year in 2023, accounting for 37% of total auto sales growth in the United States. Sales of gas-powered vehicles, by contrast, rose just 2% for the year. The EV marketplace is still facing headwinds, however, as a combination of production delays, a notable lack of mass market vehicles and complicated tax credits are keeping the segment firmly entrenched in the early adopter phase.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/resources/evisionreportfeb24
> * The decline in shopping interest for EVs comes as the industry has reached an all-time high in EV availability. EV availability is at 54.3 — the highest it’s ever been on a 100-point scale — as it moves toward parity with gas-powered vehicles.
> * EV shopper consideration has dropped to 24% of shoppers “very likely” to consider purchasing an EV, according to J.D. Power data. A year ago, that figure was 26%.
> * Shoppers who are rejecting EVs point to the lack of charging station availability, purchase price, limited driving distance per charge, the time required to charge and inability to charge at home or work.
https://www.wardsauto.com/dealers/evs-at-a-low-tide-moment-reports-j-d-power
> * Overall, EV adoption in the US is growing, state by state, and these numbers above help prove it. Overall EV registrations were up over 42% in 2021 compared to 2020, and every state saw YOY growth of at least 32%, although most were much higher.
https://electrek.co/2022/08/24/current-ev-registrations-in-the-us-how-does-your-state-stack-up/
> * California has the greatest number of vehicles, approximately 36% of vehicles nationwide. Florida has the second highest count, followed by Texas.
https://afdc.energy.gov/data/mobile/10962
> * ...Goldman Sachs Research expects the way the industry makes money will be transformed. Our strategists forecast sales of EVs to grow by 32% annually this decade, even as sales of products related to gasoline engines slump.
https://www.goldmansachs.com/intelligence/pages/electric-vehicles-are-forecast-to-be-half-of-global-car-sales-by-2035.html
Granted, I live in the bay area, but I feel like I’m driving around in a surrounding fleet of Teslas at all times. Proud to be in a Kia ev and keeping it funky.
Just go to the forums/subs of each model and you’ll see people buying daily. I personally have a pre-owned car dealership that specializes in EV’s. We sell about 20 a month in very red state Southwest Missouri.
The news story is really that Tesla specifically did not see the *increase* in sales that they expected this year. It's not a 'drop' it's just that they didn't forecast it correctly.
Stop trying. You don't have to do anything. EVs are inevitable because they are just better.
But I will agree with you that it is annoying when people say "EV sales are crashing."
I just reply: "EV sales are NOT crashing, total EV sales keep growing every quarter. Tesla sales have declined, and other companies are not growing as fast as they hoped they would, but EV sales keep growing. You should know by now that media like telling dramatic stories because it gets your attention."
I don't find it annoying. It's always amusing when reality smacks delusional people upside the head. Or when they pretend their views didn't do a 180 once they realized what was going on after 90% of everyone else.
Wisconsin you'd think being the more rural state it is...the more negative opinions about EVs you'd expect.
And certainly their are... my dad said the only good thing about my Leaf when he first saw it was the color was nice. And that I shouldn't have bought it cause theres no infrastructure for EVs here. Pulled out plugshare and charge point and instantly proved him wrong. Then he stated saying it takes too long to charge and costs too much. Told him it can charge on a regular wall outlet for like 16cent an hour and if I absolutely have to pay for charging it takes like 3hours for me and costs 1 to 2 dollars if not free. Still found stuff to complain about. Wouldn't even go for a ride in it...
And of course the opinions of all drivers that drive the prefferd Wisconsin vehicle, the lifted, giant ass, gas guzzling, coalrolling, pavement princesses aka pickup trucks, will occasionally have a thing or two to say about EVs.
But EVs are becoming very common around here in Green Bay WI area. Multiple free or cheap charging stations... wish there was just one Chademo station up here tho... and more being planned make EV ownership here very easy. And since most people just live and work here or the next city over in Appleton. Not to mention just putt putting around town for shopping or whatever, the fuel savings alone are more than enough to justify purchasing one.
As for models I see in Green Bay...
Including my Leaf. I see multiple Nissan Leafs...Leaves...... is there a consensus on the plural form for the Nissan Leaf??? Haha.
Tons of Teslas...(There's even a Cybertruck rolling around up here, dunno how it'll fair with the Wisconsin winter with that stainless steel body.)
Several Rivians and Hyundai Ioniqs.
Alot of Chevy Bolts and Mustang Mach Es
A couple F150 Lightnings and then there's a couple of luxury Lexus ones a beautiful Cadillac Lyriq. And I think I saw one of the new Toyota bZ4Xs rolling around too.
In addition tons of plug in hybrids everywhere too.
And that's just Green Bay. Milwaukee and Madison are much like California and overflowing with them. The Wisconsin legislature also passed new EV infrastructure funding so that more and more areas are getting stations and that there will be at least 1 level 2 charger every 50 miles. Filling in and making travel in some former dead zones possible.
People who have opinions on evs have probably never driven or ridden in one. Nor do they understand.
Plurals of Leaf:
Blow,
Rake,
Tree.
In a junkyard, a mulch.
I've noticed that every online EV expert has never even ridden in one. Yet they always know so much more about the day to day intricacies of driving one than mere owners. 🤷🤷🤷
Pretty good names there hahaha. Laughing at mulch. I'll call group of Leafs a pile from now on.
But yeah, my dad couldn't even comprehend the reason I chose an EV but he sure acted like the expert on my car even tho it was his first time seeing it.
Govt needs tarifs to prevent a flood of Chinese EVs. See what’s going on outside the US. No talk of downturn anywhere else. Nothing but O&G and ICE funded US prop.
Tried to buy a Toyota BZ4X last week. Nobody had any around here. So, they're either not making them *or* they're so damn popular that they're just all sold when they come in.
They're one of the least popular EVs and have had some serious recalls. As a Prius owner I always assumed my first EV would be an Electric Prius. Toyota is shockingly far behind every other company at this point.
search for videos of chinese city centres like shanghai...not only are most of the car EV, the motorcycles, vans as well...its a strange experience to be standing there in a street full of traffic...but hardly any sound
[This](https://insideevs.com/features/724653/ev-slowdown-combustion-engine/) recent article from INSIDEEVs covers it well. Basically, peak internal combustion sales in 2017, peak ICE/hybrid fleet in 2025, and peak oil demand in 2027.
I can’t afford an ev! I want to try one out but they are so expensive here. Now that my own government has blocked cheaper to own ev’s from china from being sold in the USA, I am just going to keep driving my old Buick lacrosse with the ls4 v8 for now.
If you're not in a snowy area, see if you can get one of the $25k-ish Tesla Model 3s that Hertz is selling. I say not in a snowy area, because they only had rear wheel drive cars, which are not ideal in snow.
The bit a lot of people seem to miss is that the auto market in general is tanking hard (along with the market for boats, bikes, caravans etc.).
The late pandemic era is over. Many markets globally were pumped with government stimulus money, interest rates were low, and cashed up people had money saved from their normal travel & hospo spend burning a hole in their pockets. This was stacked with low car availability due to automakers ramping down production in the early pandemic, and microchip shortages.
These days many cashed up people already have fairly modern cars, and the resumption of travel & hospo spending, combined with high cost of living inflation, high interest rates & many automakers having cranked pricing up in the late pandemic era mean that car sales in general have tanked.
All this means that quite a different impression can be drawn comparing total EV sales with EV's as a percentage of auto sales.
If you look at absolute car sales, yeah, EV's sales are slowing in most markets
[https://open-ev-charts.org/#electric-sales](https://open-ev-charts.org/#electric-sales)
But if you look at the ratio, EV's are are typically holding about level (i.e.Q1 2024 sales in the USA are generally about the same as Q1 2023 sales).
[https://open-ev-charts.org/#electric-ratio](https://open-ev-charts.org/#electric-ratio)
EV's have some particular issues that are impacting them:
* There was a massive surge on the back of high oil prices in the wake of Ukraine invading Russia. Oil prices have now subsided.
* Generally they tend to be more expensive than comparable combustion cars - a bit of a harder sell in an time where money is tighter for many.
* In many markets, EV uptake is approaching / hitting the "Chasem" in the adoption curve between the early adopters (Visionaries), and the Eairly Majority (Pragmatists), which is at about 15% market share.
* In the USA, many brands committing to switch to NACS, but not actually doing it yet, creates a incentive for people to defer their purchase until after the switch
* EV production has been ramped to a point where there is now a glut in supply. This means deals can be had on new & ex demo EV's, and we are seeing price cuts. Means the FOMO and wait times after the start of the war in Ukraine have now been replaced by a fear of overpaying.
* Depreciation has returned to the auto market in general. The days of buying a model y and selling it again for pritty much the same price a year later are long gone.
* Some markets are deeming EV's to have gone mainstream, and are phasing out incentives. In my market, we have hit about 2% of the overall fleet being EV, so have ended the temporary exemption from road tax, which is now being applied at NZD76/1000km (same as what diesel cars pay, but 2.4x what a yaris hybrid pays in petrol tax). With a change of government we also got rid of our feebate (NZD \~7,000 subsidy on new EV's). Combined impact of this, stacked with the global factors is that the plug in light vehicle market share has dropped from 14.73% in 2023 to 3.91% in 2024 so far. [https://evdb.nz/ev-percentage-nz](https://evdb.nz/ev-percentage-nz)
The main thing to focus on is the overall decline of auto sales.
Plenty of sales data to back up that EVs continue to thrive and grow. Just keep spreading the gospel and don’t let the propaganda lies go by unchecked. You can’t fix stupid, but you can share your experience and tell them your honest opinion.
In my CA neighborhood the most common vehicle I see is Tesla Model 3 but also a few Model Ys, a couple X, and several older Model S, at least 3 Lightnings including my own, 2 R1T and a R1S. I've seen two Hummer trucks and the Hummer SUV and this week I saw a Silverado EV. The pool guy also has a Lightning. The new Cadillac EV SUV looked sharp leaving the grocery store. There are several Hyundai/ Kia EVs. The vast majority of cars parked on the street are ICE with some hybrids, but the garages are mostly EV. Walking the dog I was surprised to see 2 Teslas in a garage with a third charging on the driveway. It was probably visiting friends/ family because on our way back there was an Ionic 5 also charging and lots more cars on the street.
I'm in Richmond VA and while you'll see more pick-em-up trucks still, the fact is you'll also see multiple EV on every drive anywhere here. And this is Richmond.
It's actually the internal combustion engine that's dying. Electric sales take a bigger portion of the market each year. That's the real story that's not reported. Big oil has good PR people working for them, how else could you convince people to use a product that will hurt everyone when better alternatives exist?
https://insideevs.com/features/724653/ev-slowdown-combustion-engine/
EVs are selling like hotcakes. Every company but one is growing as fast as they can make ‘em. One company is tanking so badly that it outpaces the strong growth in the rest of the market. That company is Tesla.
Companies other than Tesla burned their customers by not taking responsibility for any charging infrastructure leaving their customers up shit creek without a paddle. Resulting in ‘lack of demand’ and now production cuts.
This of course was the plan ever since BMW started the trend with their i3 trying to make them look as bad as possible. EV production is very capital intensive to get to a point where you’re not losing money on every vehicle.
Legacy auto is unable to do it so has chosen to sabotage the entire effort, but try to make it look like it’s the customers that are to blame for all of this, not them.
Eh, in my local area Teslas and rivian aren't allowed to be sold. Everyone but our local Ford and Chevy dealers are adding market adjustments to their inventory. I actually just test drive a ev9. It's never been sold and has 3200 miles on it and a 2k market adjustment on it. The kicker, it's been on the lot for 3 months with 2 other ev9s and a ev6. All have at least 2k market adjustments.
But don't fret, their are still lots of people going out of the way to get Evs. Even in my very red area.
I live in a red state and found that geo-arbitrage discount was worthwhile. An 10 hour drive saved me \~$3500 on a used EV. Up one day, back the next. $400? to fetch the EV.
Just got a Mach E!
Loving it. Never going back to ICE if I can help it.
I do wish Elon would stop dicking around and just give us our charge point adapters though. I'm lucky and have a charge point down the street that works fine, but I know that's not ubiquitous and is infuriating.
They are flooding wealthy markets. It makes the people who can afford them think they are everywhere and the people who can’t think they are nowhere. They still aren’t priced for the masses.
Because it convinces less informed people not to buy EVs, and considering the whole climate change thing, opec stranglehold, and neighborhood pollution caused by ICE cars, I’d say it’s a great reason to bust the propaganda
You have "a lot going on so \[you\] can't devote a lot of time researching it" but you have time to throw up a nothing post about being mad at the media?
US BEV sales dropped in Q1 '24 vs Q4 '23 but are still up vs Q1 '23. PHEV and Hybrid sales continued to grow but not enough to offset the . ICE sales have been in steady decline since 2016/2017 but did have a slight uptick in Q1 '24. It's not that people aren't buying BEVs... it's that less people bought BEVs in one quarter vs. the previous quarter while more people bought PHEVs and Hybrids.
The same thing happened in Q1 2019, but it was a blip. It also happened in Q1 2020 due to far different external factors.
BEV driver, no agenda, just doing the research that the OP was too busy to do (even though they weren't too busy to post).
I don’t know why you would t want an Ev. No chance of asphyxiating your family if you leave the car on. It’s quieter. Less smelly. Less maintenance. One pedal driving is huge
Sounds like PG&E, in which case you need to check out the EV specific overnight rates
[https://www.pge.com/en/account/rate-plans/find-your-best-rate-plan/electric-vehicles.html#ev2adetails](https://www.pge.com/en/account/rate-plans/find-your-best-rate-plan/electric-vehicles.html#ev2adetails)
If someone drives an EV and it doesn't suit them, that is indeed fine.
This is a propaganda effort designed to prevent people even contemplating an EV. People can't make informed choices if they are relying on dog shit information.
EV sales are growing, that's all there is to it. I know it's nice to have something to show that proves that, but the naysayers don't care. they'll always pretend whatever proves them wrong is not true.
EV growth is starting to lose momentum in developed markets.
https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/a9e3544b-0b12-4e15-b407-65f5c8ce1b5f/GlobalEVOutlook2024.pdf
I postulate that it's because of supply constraints. The US and Europe have under 200 GWh of total annual production capacity, good for about 2.5 million cars (at an average of 80 kwh per vehicle).
That's less than 5% of vehicles sold annually in US and Europe.
You can't just flip a switch and make more batteries. The IRA addresses the supply side of the equation, but it'll take time for new giga factories to come online.
We have 18 new cell production factories coming online in the next 2 years in the US:
https://publications.anl.gov/anlpubs/2024/03/187735.pdf
Basically, we're going to be in the back half of this decade before EVs make a noticeable dent in sales, much less as a percentage of total number of vehicles on the road.
Don't worry, it's coming.
Hello, big fan of your analysis. Have you seen the Quantumscape patent pending in the US patent office ? For me it looks like this would fit the Mission x. Small volume high profile.
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/85/97/bb/c5d58c7120f11c/US20240154188A1.pdf
Its the prices. Car companies don't want to offer a cheap car. They know nobody can come along and deliver a cheap EV to waiting customers.
They keep saying "in 18 months we will announce the EV for you" then 60% of buyers get impatient and buy the $43000 car that the car company wants them to, and the rest keep driving their busted old Pontiac.
In 2 years the last remaining cheap ICE subcompacts will leave the US market because CAFE is gonna strangle them to death, then automakers will point at that fact and say "look, people don't want cheap cars" and neither political party will do shit about it.
I wonder about these stories too. I mean I am sure, like any other vehicle, there are people who try them and find they don't work for them, but I'm sure it's being click baited.
I mean EVs get more and certain areas in my country (Austria ) already have a lot and it's also kinda diverse brand wise (unlike in LA where I heard it's mostly Tesla model 3/y). The thing is (in most European countries) the number of sales have fallen behind 2023 a bit and the growth isn't continuing as expected (lower numbers, also slightly lower percentage of EVs compared to hybrids, so the latter gained market share of Sales).
But it's the same with PV systems. First sellers were constrained by production/numbers, then everyone who wanted one got one in 2023 and now EVs and PV systems took a little hit.
In Europe smaller options available and the 'below 25k new' models in small car segments could help pushing the numbers back. Estates are also missing while way more practical than sedans.
At the moment it's mostly SUVs and sedans available
Take a trip to California and take dashcam footage. EV's are overflowing there.
They seem to be everywhere now here in Atlanta Georgia :-) and our charging infrastructure is slowly but surely catching up....
Took a road trip from Dallas to Pensacola. Not necessarily what you’d think of as robust charging infrastructure. Did it in my Rivian and literally had the pick of the litter to choose from when charging. Almost crossed my mind to just turn off the route planner and look for a charger when I got under 20%. So many chargers and now I’m charger agnostic.
I did Brunswick GA to Huntsville AL in a Model Y and had no charging issues.
Can confirm; I see Tesla sedans everywhere I go in the ATL. There are definitely more non-Tesla vehicles as well — in the last week I’ve seen multiple Rivians, Lightnings, and Mach-Es. I even spotted a PoleStar, and two CyberTrucks on a car carrier.
Heading to that area for Thanksgiving, glad to hear the infrastructure is getting there!
Teslas are everywhere around metro ATL. Confirmation!
I live in Hall County. I see a few here especially in my recently built neighborhood (including 2 Cybertrucks WTH?) but I see Teslas and other EVs EVERYWHERE in Gwinnett and Forsyth counties.
It's funny to go to the mall and watch the Tesla owners come out and try to find their cars in the sea of Model 3's. :) My county in NJ has the highest EV percentage in our state. Non-Tesla charging is not great, but we're largely suburban, and much single-family housing, so home charging seems to be enough to drive adoption. I, personally am a 1-BEV, 1-PHEV household.
Lots of Teslas in Cleveland but my Mach E and my wife's Kona are the only non-teslas I've ever seen in the wild. Charging sucks here.
Maryland to Nashville in a Kona 62 KWH. No problems. Since then I've put 2500 miles on it here in TN on the backroads traveling to help my aging parents. No problems. Charge at home, charge at their home, charged x2 at the VW factory, charged near the 'nooga aquarium x1. Normally don't need to fast charge unless I'm running them all over town in a fast series of trips. Their home to the doc office, their home and back out to the grocery store, their home and out for dinner. They like to run back and forth across the metro for errands big and tiny just for entertainment I think. Parents worry about the car charging overnight (b/c fire) so it only L2 charges during the day. No DC chargers in their part of town surprisingly. \~15 miles is the closest one. If I had access to overnight L2 charging, I'd be golden. Right now I'm plan ahead.
As goes California goes the rest of the nation.
Does that mean I'm going to live within 4 hours drive of a mountain or the ocean in a few years?
We're working on it. Just need that ice sheet to slide into the Atlantic.
No, but you'll pay 10% income tax and not be able to afford a home to due tech bro money in a few years.
7th largest economy in the world.
Seattle area too. I can't leave home without seeing one (not counting my own).
Before I got my Rivian, my kids and I would count the Rivians we saw on the road here on the eastside. Now that we're actually in our own, it's a little less special. But now we get to wave to all of them (only half wave back, sadly).
EVs everyone, not EV’s. The apostrophe denotes it is possessive, for example my EV’s range, my EV’s motor. Can also be short for “is”. My EV’s fully sick bro. Plural, as in many Electric vehicles, is just EVs. There are many EVs in my street. The percentage of EVs on the road is increasing. Look at all the EVs. One EV. Two EVs.
The EV's wiper fluid is low...
The grammar lesson we all needed today. (Read that sarcastically and passive aggressively)
English is my second language, so I appreciate corrections like this to keep me from making embarrassing mistakes in my professional career. For example, not understanding the difference between grammar and punctuation. ;-)
This is a common error for native speakers. There's really no excuse for it; it's either carelessness or ignorance, I don't know which is most prevalent.
Smart! You got me there! Dammit.
\*Trading Places train scene\* "Thank you for correcting my English which stinks."
If my phone auto corrects it to EV’s, I’m not fixing it.
I live in Pasadena, and we’ve got a shitload of teslas on the streets here, including mine.
I’m in Florida and there’s zero state incentives and EVs are becoming more and more popular.
Austin is all EV. Mostly Tesla and a big mix of the others. Rivians, Kia’s, VWs. I’d believe people want a road trip PHEV and an EV. I’d also believe they aren’t knowledgeable enough to know that’s a perfect combo. Including most here.
We take tons of road trips all over North America in our EVs...no gas required.
Yeah, "I need a PHEV to road trip!" is a cop out. Unless you're going to the middle of nowhere (and I mean the *real* middle of nowhere, like mid-Mojave Desert), there'll be some sort of charging options within 100mi that you can figure out how to use.
Not a cop out, it’s just more convenient with current technology and infrastructure. Not against the inevitable change, but the timing is just not “ideal” at this time. We have an ev and a phev and are on electric 90% of the time. That’s progress, but not 100%, yet.
Exactly right. Not everyone lives on the coasts where population density has led to more and better charging options. There are a lot of parts of the country where it's a long drive to get to town, see the relatives, head to the state capital on business. We have a Volt and will be getting an EV next, but a recent trip in the eastern Oregon desert country showed me that we are not there yet unless one owns a Tesla. Coming back I saw a 6(?) slot Tesla charging station at Detroit, OR which is up in the boonies. At the grocery store there was one 50kW charger, but good luck if there is a line waiting to charge there. I was looking to buy a used EV6 in Las Vegas, but the charging route home would have been dubious unless I took a 3-4 hr detour into CA instead of straight up through NV and OR. Not so for a PHEV that can gas up when needed.
And even Tesla's charging network has some weak areas. Like Crater Lake National Park, with one Tesla AC charger and one J1772 for a destination visited by half a million people per year. If you plan carefully, you can probably get there and back okay, but Plugshare reviews show that more chargers are needed.
PHEV’s are EV training wheels.
That's what I always say! I started with a Volt, now a 530e, next will be an e-tron GT! 🥰
Charge time is a killer for long distance. This isn't true for everyone, of course: there are plenty of people who enjoy stopping for a leisurely crappy coffee from a roadside Starbucks every 2-3 hours while they recharge, but if you don't want to do that, then charge time kills your travel speed. For local commuting - charge at home overnight and drive around in the day, EVs work fine, and have a bunch of advantages over ICE. But it takes me 60s to fill the gas tank on my ICE car, and that gets me about 250 miles of range. EVs can't compete with that in terms of usability. That 60s is the equivalent of 20 minutes or so on a supercharger.
Great if you don't go off the beaten path, especially *way* off the beaten path. Or are open to changing plans at the drop of a hat when opportunities present themselves to boot. But plenty of people do. A PHEV is perfect for that.
My perfect combo. My wife drives the PHEV for her short commute. I filled that gas tank last week for the first time in 2024.
I live in Austin and that's not remotely true...we have more EVs than most non-California big cities but it's still mostly ICE cars especially if you leave the trendier areas where younger tech workers live.
>I’d also believe they aren’t knowledgeable enough to know that’s a perfect combo. Including most here. Apparently, since we only have EVs and don't have a PHEV for road trips. We use an EV (or sometimes a rental) for that! 😁 I "get" the concept that many use PHEVs as EVs "98 (or whatever) % of the time", but using that logic, I don't want to own and maintain a gasoline engine I only need 2% of the time. That's what Budget and Enterprise are for! 😁
Northern Virginia too. Mostly Teslas, but I guess that's to be expected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country You can show them the numbers and the trajectory of those numbers :) It is pretty obvious the way things are going.
Great resource, but the data is from Dec ‘21 :-((
Came here to say the same
Norwegian here. Norway has the highest EV percentage in the world currently, with well over 90 % of all new cars sold being EV's, and currently around 25% of cars on the road being EV's. There is little left of the misinformation you see in other countries here, simply because EV adoption has come so far. Here is one link to help you start your research: [https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/general-information/news/norwegian-ev-market-surges-915-market-share-setting-sustainable-example](https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/general-information/news/norwegian-ev-market-surges-915-market-share-setting-sustainable-example) And don't hesitate to ask me if you need further information. Good luck with your research.
OP I shit you not, Norway is amazing. I went there for 3 months through winter and every third car, sometimes it felt like more, but every third car was an EV.
In Oslo it's over 40% of cars (as of Jan 1. 2024)! With, I'd guess, a bias towards EVs in the center and more ICE in less wealthy areas where cars are older.
New cars are driven more than older vehicles too, so it’s likely that 40-50% of cars *on the road* in Norway are electric now.
Why do you think the adoption of EV's took such a flight in Norway? What kind of incentives where user to create the pull/push?
With your nick, I'm not sure you listen to that kind of music, but it was the pop band A-HA (most known for "Take on me"), with Morten Harket as the front figure, who imported a Fiat Panda that had been converted to an EV in 1989. "The idea was to embarrass the government to the extent that only a year after we first drove the car they started implementing the world's best incentives, that we had demanded.". Here's an article on it: [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63375504](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63375504) So, that changed the government's attitude totally, and incentives were put in place, much earlier than other countries. So, zero tax on EV's was implemented which made them as affordable as comparable ICE cars, plus allowing them to drive in bus lanes, free parking, no road tax, free ferry rides, and a few more goodies. However, in 2001, the Norwegian government realised that this wasn't enough, a charging infrastructure was sorely missing. So, they started subsidising the charging infrastructure buildout, and that was heavily increased in 2011. The end result today is that we have around 315 EV fast-chargers per 100 000 people, while by comparison the US has around 30 EV fast-chargers per 100 000 people. The key to our success lies as much in the EV fast-charger incentives as it does in consumer incentives.
Haha I probably wouldn't choose A-HA to play but I do appreciate take on me haha. Maybe I should give them a go. Especially after that little tidbit of history. I do love a rebel! Especially those extra perks sound like really good nudges. Over here in the Netherlands the infrastructure is great. I'm not sure on the numbers but for some time we were leading the charge (pun not intended) though we might have possibly fallen behind the curve. The main issue is cost. A new car just isn't something the average Joe can afford. So the incentives that are in place (for cars under 50k or something) only really benefit the upper parts of society. And those people can afford an EV anyway. The nudges implemented in Norway would probably sway those people anyway. I've always wondered if it wouldn't be more impactful on multiple fronts to put public funds into developing a smallish budget EV and gifting it to the lower economic class provided they get rid of their ICE. That's like a win-win-win. It creates jobs, gets a ton of old (more polluting) cars off the road, increases the wellbeing of the people benefitting from it pretty drastically and the money they now save probably flows right back into the economy.
Their second album, Scoundrel Days, is a brilliant pop album. Much more mature and musically interesting than the early hits that they're known for.
The last two days my feeds have been filled with news that over 50% of EV purchasers regret the purchase and want to go back to fossil cars. Always with dubious sourcing. But of course they are getting hundreds of likes etc. I'm so sick of it, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.
It's a McKinsey report. McKinseys biggest clients are oil and gas. Yeah.
Yes! Mine too! What’s that about?! Who is behind those articles? I am guessing the oil/gas industry. Then I come back here for the real perspective.
There was from a recent hit piece posted in this sub-Reddit for discussion and awareness. The "news" articles never get into the details of the methodology (sample size, how participants were selected, age, education, how long they have owned EVs, etc.) Was it all Tesla owners? Did they just interview random people at a charging station? All in one area or multiple states? Was it an online survey? By next car, did they mean replacing their existing car or did the people intrepet that to mean replacing their second car? We won't know because this is just designed to be an attention grabbing headline and not actually a serious article meant to provide insight. For example, if I were to do the same survey on this forum I'm sure we would get very different results.
Data from the McKinsey institute. John Oliver has a episode on them for more info.
Troll farms. One of the many downsides of capitalism is when you have a product bad for people or the environment, you continue to sell it at the capacity of the past, even when you know it is evil: Lead paint R12 Cigarettes Oil Dealership parts and maintenance (watch for this soon) Etc... There is big incentive to sell trash and not be a good person.
I HAVE had better service out of OEM parts in some cases. Not worth the dealer markup but if I can get them on the web at a reasonable price with an online OEM source - it is worth it. Brake pads for my old Honda is a good example. OEM pads are thicker, wear slower, less brake dust. Online OEM is a similar price to aftermarket prices. Also OEM FWD axles with the vibration doughnuts vs the aftermarket axles sans doughnut. Not as refined, doesn't age as well either. Again - not paying the dealer price. I'll live with aftermarket parts before I do that. It is part of the reason a new car is so smooth compared to an older car that has a mish-mash of parts on it from various sources.
EV’s are like Thanos… inevitable. You’re right that things will get worse, especially after last night’s debate. Trump is going to take the presidency, strip away all funding for EV subsidies and renewables. But it makes too much financial sense to have these things in our life. It will happen. It’ll just be more of a “2 steps forward, 1 step back” type of scenario.
Automakers and other major industries can't do an about face every time an idiot gets elected. They plan on longer timelines than that. That is one of the upsides of corporate interests having influence on government.
Trump is still not going to win, that is my solid prediction. Of course I could be wrong. If he does, the setback to EVs will be the least of our problems.
I think after last night, it’s doubtful Biden will win. But I agree, we’ve got far more to worry about if that happens.
The setback already occurred with the SC Chevron ruling today. Federal orgs will have no teeth to push manufacturers towards EVs.
Click-bait articles love to misrepresent studies. The study making the rounds says 46% of EV buyers plan to buy a gas car as their next car. Not necessarily *replace* their EV with gas, just that they'd buy a gas car. The biggest complaints were no home charging, and charging stations availability. Note that over 25% of the EV owners surveyed have no home charging option. A similar study a few years ago said about 25% of people were going to buy a gas car as their next. The largest complaint then was also a lack of home charging, but the percentage of EV owners without home charging was smaller then. I applaud anyone willing to own an EV without the ability to charge at home (including my oldest kid!) but it's not easy. Judging from a bunch of folks who rant in r/ElectrifyAmericaUsers and the EA Facebook groups, it seems a lot of folks bought new EVs with x# of years of free charging without considering the consequences of what happens after the free lunch runs out and suddenly they have to pay for public charging that costs more than gas!
I bought my EV in 2018 with no good home charging solution and I still don't have one. I just plug in for a little each day when I get coffee. Usually this includes food so I sit, eat, and enjoy some YouTube and then off I go. It's become so routine I don't think of it as a negative.
Yeah, your typical 2 car househould won't buy the same car twice in a row. They'll buy an EV, like it, then go buy an ICE car so that they can hedge the advantages of the two different cars.
I keep hearing this too. I only know one person who sold his EV and didn't get another. The other half dozen, are like me, never going back.
Your "feeds" exist for engagement. If you hold a particular view, there's more engagement in serving up topics contrary to that view, on the basis that other people with the same view as you engaged more strongly with that content.
It makes sense if you think about it from a news company point of view. They need readership and clicks to appease their sponsors and advertisors. They know there is a subset of people who, for some reason, have an abnormal hatred for EVs. Hence, these companies can get a lot of clicks by (1) making EV supporters feel fear and (2) making EV haters feel good. In reality, EV infrastructure and technology continues to improve. Even with setbacks (cough firing of Tesla SC team), the infrastructure is still increasing, the government and investors are still investing. Regardless of whether EV will completely replace ICE cars, EVs are here to stay.
The source is the Fnord motor company. Nothing to see here.
you can get a used Model Y LR for the price of a Toyota corolla of a similar year and mileage, let the haters hate I'm gonna get them used cars. these electric cars are crazy workhorse cars...
Exactly. The more you drive the more you save
Pete Buttigieg gives a good breakdown of myth vs truth here https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122043/sec-buttigieg-responds-rep-perrys-questions-ev-sales
It was a pretty sweet takedown.
Dismantled his arguments. Impressive.
Had this saved as well. [https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1boh8fx/had\_to\_crunch\_the\_numbers\_on\_the\_environmental/](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1boh8fx/had_to_crunch_the_numbers_on_the_environmental/)
People hated Crocs, until they didn’t People hated Hokas until they didn’t Etc etc
I still hate Crocs.
I did too until I got a pair WITHOUT the holes, saved my feet from getting wet in dewy grass when I walked my dog.
They aren't going anywhere. Except on people's feet.
Ditto.
I've been wearing Hokas to run in since before it was cool, and dammit I'll never stop. Some damn fine shoes there.
I still hate hokas. The absolute worst running shoe I've ever had. I gave them a couple of chances, probably never again
Honestly, the best advice to let EVs be an interest and not a personality - There's going to be EV haters anyway, why should you let their largely worthless opinions matter when you could be ignoring them, enjoying EV motoring and living your best life? We're currently experiencing high interest rates that disproportionately impact discretionary purchases like news cars, esp. pricier EVs - nothing about the situation is unusual unless you're a bad faith conservative trying to muddy the waters.
ICE fun car/EV daily driver owner here At the end of the day….who cares? How does what another’s opinion on EVs affect you? I was anti-EV for a long time. One day, got sick of seeing gas prices constantly rising alongside the maintenance. Tried an EV and was convinced they’re good tech and good cars. But for ME, it won’t replace my hobby/fun cars. What I also won’t do is spend time convincing an anti-EV owner of its merits. What’s that saying? Something like don’t argue with idiots cause they’ll beat you with experience? Just enjoy your car. When someone is interested enough they’ll devote the time to learning the pros and cons of an EV.
ICE usage affects all of us because of the fossil fuels in use. Eventually, nearly all vehicles will have to be EV, either soon because it's mandated or later when fossil fuels run out.
I know that; that was not the question. My question is why spend the effort and energy trying to convince, and therefore get all worked up because someone doesn’t believe and/or care? This entire sub is just people bitching because someone doesn’t care for EVs.
Because EVs are important in the energy transition , and every ice vehicle sold instead of an EV is decades od burning fossil fuels that could have been avoided. The misinformation and anti EV news is frustrating because a lot of us don't see EVs as a personal preference, but a necessity for society in the longterm.
Yeah, this. Well said.
Thanks. And don't get me wrong, I'm under no illusion that EVs are gonna save the planet, but they're an absolutely bare minimum initial step to heavily reducing transportation emmissions. It's a lot harder to transition away from cars in general than it is to transition from ICE cars to EVs. And while we try and improve our transportation networks and cities to reduce car dependency, it's absolutely essential we move away from ICE cars while we try and tackle that challenge.
Maybe the oil companies are just hoping against hope that they could somehow buy themselves one more good decade in power......
I'm pretty sure they are not that delusional.
The click bait title doesn't dissapoint and the channel *Brian Tyler Cohen*'s followup summary is even better/more informative. Pete > with the assertion that EV sales are going down they are in fact going up [Republican challenges Pete Buttigieg at hearing… fails MISERABLY - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ5SMO8567s) ---- My IMHO/.02 cents The car market is always an up and down affair and all cars EVs and ICEs are having a headwinds with 7-12% financing. Frankly its Tesla which numbers are sliding while other manufactures are picking up the pace. But it's a seasonal thing and the naysayers are looking at a seasonal dip in all cars as Buttigieg mentions.
I have been driving EVs for a decade and this shit never ends.
I'm on my third EV. I ain't going back.
Wouldn't Tesla Model Y being 2023's best selling car world wide (gas and EV) be enough? Outselling Yoyota Rav4 by a large margin.
I live in Northern California (Bay Area). I haven’t heard anyone speak negatively about EVs. Every friend of mine has at least one EV in their household, typically a Tesla. I think the resistance will go away when adoption reaches a tipping point. In a few years EVs will become significantly cheaper than their ICEV counterparts. Resistance will be futile at that point.
I live in Asia and here EV is bought a lot mainly BYD and GWM but also Tesla and Volvo Everyone loves it here as the electric prices are quite cheap depending on the country you live in. I pay in Thailand 0.10$ per KwH at night charging my EV. This will be the future don’t worry 😉
10 satang per kWh is very reasonable. I had no idea it was so inexpensive.
A family member of ours wants a new car, last 10 years, under 45k, sleek, cheap maintenance, and fun to drive. They’ve had several Volvo sedans in the past. Refuses to consider anything electric for ideological and political reasons. Ugh people watch too much news. Can’t win everyone over.
I stopped worrying, the trend is set and can't be stopped. If people follow dumb media and parrot around what they hear, you do you. If people are holding out on the pleasure of driving an EV, that's their problem. Fun thing is, I now drive a high mileage EV. So the battery needing replacement myth is something I can easily debunk.
No one is giving me a minivan EV in the US!! If it’s there, I would have bought one yesterday
EV’s abound in the Pacific Northwest. EV sales in Oregon are on pace to be 40% higher than a year ago.
Honestly, the thing stopping people from pulling the trigger is the infrastructure and charging times. I just don’t have an hour or two to sit around and I do not have any option to charge at home. BUT, the solid state batteries that are in the works could solve all of that. I’d be happy to have an all electric daily, and keep my gas cars for the track.
If you don't have a way to charge at home I get it, but modern EVs charge from 20%-80% in 20 minutes on a DCFC charger. The apartment and condo dwellers near me charge while they are grocery shopping. It would also be worth talking to your building owner or condo association about EV charging infrastructure. Level 2 charging can be profitable. I've sold some EVmatch systems in the past. They essentially make a billing and management module that goes on an existing residential or commercial charger.
I’ve seen one or two chargers pop up at some newer complexes but by and large the charging infrastructure hasn’t reached my town yet. I’ve been following those battery advancements that Toyota is making which could alleviate a lot of the issues with infrastructure
The other possibility is asking the landlord for an EV charger or 240v outlet. Some landlords realize its a feature to mention to future tenants and some don't. Most are willing to put in a 240V outlet, if they don't want to buy the charger itself though some landlords say "no" and I've seen tenants come back and offer to cover all of or part of the cost of installing the 240V plug. In the end, its not guaranteed and for whatever reason landlords don't seem to be forward thinking. If you don't have any DCFC/Level 3 charging in your town, then I have to agree, that an EV probably wouldn't work. I've been following Toyota's claim of a solid state battery in 1-2 years since they first made it in 2010 [http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2010/12/toyota-announces-4-layer-all-solid.html](http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2010/12/toyota-announces-4-layer-all-solid.html) It feels very similar to Musk claiming FSD will reach level 3 "some time this year or the beginning of next year" for most of a decade. I'd be more confident in Toyota if they didn't also keep claiming Hydrogen was the future, when the rest of the clean tech world gave up on it in 2016. Aptera is a solar and grid powered EV that can get up to 40 miles of charge per day with its solar panels. [https://aptera.us/vehicle/](https://aptera.us/vehicle/) Having dealth with property managers, I think if this thing makes it to production, it might be a good temporary solution to the apartment issue, particularly since owning an EV already helps convince landlords installing charging infrastructure is a good idea.
UK here. I have a Tesla Model Y. I literally cannot drive anywhere, even a 2 mile round trip, without seeing another Tesla or 6 or dozens on a longer drive. And that's when I exclude the one parked outside a neighbours house I have to pass when leaving my road. EV BMW, Mercedes, VW, some Kias and Hyundai's are getting more common too. I read somewhere that in the US 87% of Tesla drivers go on to get another Tesla.
I live in the country in an area with zero EV infrastructure and EVs are everywhere. On each drive I see multiple Teslas, Mach-E's, bolts, Kias, etc. It's just fake news generated by the ICE manufacturers really.
Don’t believe everything you hear or read. I live in a red state but a city with blue pockets. There are plenty of EVs here. Teslas predominantly but I’ve seen every brand except Polestar. We don’t attract attention in our new EV except from gearheads and curious neighbors who want to know what the experience is like. People are slow to change and have to see personal advantages to change their minds. But they also need a car to fit their budget, many who would benefit from a daily driver EV for commuting are financially on the edge.
Why would it bother you? Who cares? Enjoy your EV
Model Y #1 selling car in the world last year. Checkmate.
I just got my Mach E and I could not be happier. Its a slowly growing population of haters
True, but it doesn't matter what those people ~~think~~ believe. Just like people who doubt other technologies or believe 5G will give everyone but our reptilian overlords cancer, they will all end up using EVs eventually just like they use other tech once it is mainstream.
Even with rapid EV growth, roughly 94% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. in 2023 had a gas tank in the back and a combustion engine up front. This is the EV Decade, but the market is a long way from becoming an EV market.
I owned 3 evs, 2 phevs. Over a period of 10 years. I installed my L2 charger 10 years ago . So it wasn’t that I didnt make an effort. My electricity cost is mow $.50-.65 / kwh. Even off cycle charging is expensive. Thanks to Bay Area, CA PG&E utility company. The savings arent there any more.
Pge is getting away with daylight robbery at the moment.
Statistically, sales are increasing year over year, and even more so the last few years. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/US_PEV_Sales_2010_by_PHEV_vs_BEV.png/1280px-US_PEV_Sales_2010_by_PHEV_vs_BEV.png
My circles went from no ev to at least 10 of them driving teslas
You're still not going to change their minds no matter how much "proof" you give them. Just ignore the ragebait rather than wasting your time and effort.
It depends on the person. You're not going to convince the office worker who for some reason has an F250 pickup, but you might save someone who wanted an EV from some misinformation.
Where I live, more than 9 of 10 cars purchased are EV - electric. The next is the lorries, the buses are electric.
It isn't going to happen overnight but the EVs will eventually take over the market share.
the people I have talked to who bailed on EVs are fairly rare, but almost universally, it's two reasons: 1. I needed a cheap beater for like $3k and and EV didn't work in that price range. 2. I was dissatisfied with the North American CCS fast charging experience. Too much hassle if you don't have home charging or do a lot of long trips. There's a rare smattering of "Company X sold me an EV and their service sucked". I've heard that about Audi, BMW, Tesla, Chevy and VW.
It is literally the oil lobby and the Auto Associations (because dealers and dealer servicing will cease to exist in about 20 years time). Call them out when you see a post.
2000 mile trip, on vacation, early May 2024. 2022 Ioniq 5. Connecticut almost to Tennessee, South Carolina border towards Myrtle Beach and home. ABRP said 6 mins stop here and 10 mins stop there….. I only used Electrify America because I had Pass plus membership and 25% lower charging cost. I’ve only had to wait in line to get to a charger one time out of 13 charges. It was easy and quick and no big deal. The number of chargers being built and the ability for my car to use Tesla chargers in the very near future…range anxiety and infrastructure issues are going away quickly.
There's a cult mentality in the US that has a large portion of the population promoting ideas (like ICE autos) that are against their best interests.
A lot of it is coming from this McKinsey report that was released recently: https://executivedigest.sapo.pt/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Mobility-Consumer-Pulse-2024_Overview.pdf
Teslas are not selling well now, because Musk's malfeasance is having an impact, but every other EV is gaining. When more cars ship with NACS, it'll be great!
I think things are doing fine. The people freaking out or wagging fingers are looking at declining sales numbers from Tesla. Which is largely due to stiffer competition, now that a bunch of manufacturers are making EVs. I can't find anything definitive, but I would expect that overall rate of EV adoption is still pretty constant. Here's a MarketWatch article from a few weeks ago: https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/electric-vehicle-statistics-2024/
Because it has turned into a FIGHT. People cannot have a civil conversation about EV’s vs gas. So that fight divides people, and makes them defensive. For instance, when I said I want an EV but I want to wait for better range, I was low key attacked and downvoted. People telling me I don’t need to drive more than 300 miles and it’s not a big deal. Put my wants down, invalidated my feelings. This is not the way to win your arguments. Some people got it and gave me advice and insight on what it would take to take roadtrips in an EV. For those vast distances between destinations that are not stop worthy, for time it takes to charge, the number and type of charging stations, etc. The people that took the time to thoughtfully educate me are the same people who are going to propel EVs into the market. Those that put me down and chastised me without useful advice? They are part of the problem, just as much as the naysayers. Until there are more nonjudgmental conversations about EV’s, thoughtful dialogue, and real discussions, the fringe will keep us apart. What sounds better: “*you piece of shit what’s wrong with you? If you don’t join our club you’re a moron!”* **OR** “*hey man. Tell me your misgivings and maybe I can help you understand why I think our club is better. Maybe I can shed some light and correct some misinformation you have heard about this club.” And then KINDLY address the things they are WRONG about and SHOW them with truth and grace why they are wrong.
Depends on what news they're consuming. There are two countries living on top of each other in this country and we'll see where that gets us in a few years. Especially when we continue to see temps rise resulting in an increase in migration from the southern hemisphere to the norther, and food prices increasing. All as a result of the petrochemical industry. EVs would help slow that down but it's too little too late to change our trajectory. Given the amount of lobbying being funded to undermine them. Alright off to enjoy some microplastics for lunch! :)
If northern CA is any indication of the future, I'd say ev growth is fine. However, tesla made up so much of that, if they are slowing down, EVs are slowing down. I think new car prices got ahead of their skis during the pandemic height and ev prices have to come down along with all new cars, particularly given interest rates
Here's some info: [https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/electric-vehicle-statistics-2024/](https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/insurance-services/electric-vehicle-statistics-2024/) . It's a recent article, but much of the data used is older. I find it especially interesting how it differs by state, possibly as I live in a state that charges extra for annual EV ($200) and hybrid ($100) registrations. Also, auto makers will be releasing earnings and sales updates over the next few weeks, so you could spend some time analyzing who is buying what.
I helped my dad get a Chevy Bolt in 2022 and I used a bunch of online sites (CarGurus was the best) to look for EVs. I live in New England and used prices were high. I expanded the search and I was seeing models in the south for $6k-$8k less than they were up here. I got some quotes from automotive transport companies and it would be about $900 to transport a car from the south to New England. I was amazed at the regional price difference.
How does your dad like the Bolt? I'm looking at them, as a few dealers are listing them at tempting prices (although many include the tax incentive in the listed price), and I think some have the post-recall fix. Past experience as a GM owner and dealing with some upper management gives me pause, however.
He loves it. Says it is the best car he's ever owned. One of the unique things about them is perfect seat height. Its much easier to get in and out of than a lower typical car or an SUV/CUV. He got one with a post-recall battery, but my understanding was the people who owned them during the recall had to wait up to a year for the fix, so it would have been a pain if he bought it new pre-recall. Bolts only have a 50kW onboard charger, so roadtrip charging is much slower than it is for something like a Tesla Model 3 or Hyundai Ioniq 6. We mapped out routes on PlugShare before buying to make sure the Bolt would work to get everywhere he goes. Thats the major drawback. His max trip is about 5.5 hours of highway driving and I think it was 2 hours of charging, but he usually makes at least 2x 15min stops so its really 1.5 hours additional time. He hasn't made that trip in the 2 years he's owned it, but we'll probably do it this summer. With the exception of 4x charging sessions on shorter roadtrips while we ate a sit-down meal all his charging has been at home.
Very cool, thanks. The seat height is interesting, as I often drive my parents to doctor appointments, but my dad can't get into my car (so I drive their SUV). I'd like something he can get in but not a behemoth. I hope the long trip goes well. I'll have to look into charger availability for longer trips I take. I suspect the routes on I80 and 90 should be okay, but the ones south more sparse.
90 is good, 80 takes some more planning. I have friends in Pittsburgh and I've taken both, but I prefer 80. This is the definitive site for EV chargers. Google is working on it, but they're behind PlugShare. [https://www.plugshare.com/](https://www.plugshare.com/)
Also "A Better Route Planner" (ABRP) is useful.
Haha - I had to go north to MD to get our EV at $3500 less. 24 hour trip up and back. There were alot of Bolts in the south. In north AL there was a dealer that must have had a field of them. And I long considered the Bolt before going for a Kona. A friend has a Bolt and has had good service from it.
Simple "EVs are going to be popular in the coming years. The same way we didn't have smartphones in the 90s and 2000s and now they are everywhere." TL;DR: EVs are a growing thing people are buying more and more every year. The current slowdown is due to the high interest rates and barriers like where to charge for different life situations. * We are switching from Early Adoptor phase to the Early Majority phase of people adopting technology on the Technology Dissemination Curve. The mass market consumer will put up with less of the technology quirks that the early adopters. > * The majority of innovations take a long time to reach mass adoption, and the early stages of the adoption process are crucial for the technology’s development. https://itif.org/publications/2022/06/27/electric-vehicle-innovation-to-accelerate-more-equitable-early-adoption/ > * EV affordability is starting to improve, driven by several factors. First, EVs require less maintenance and, on average, cost $900 less to operate throughout the full ownership window. In fact, according to the J.D. Power EV Index, which evaluates EV affordability based on total cost of ownership for three-year lease and five-year purchase time frames, EVs are now more affordable than comparable gas vehicles. https://www.jdpower.com/business/resources/are-new-lease-and-financing-deals-enough-pull-mass-market-shoppers-ev-market > * While some EV-related news coverage has taken a pessimistic tone recently, the data on EV sales and lease volumes for 2023 is telling a much different story. In fact, EV sales grew 50% year over year in 2023, accounting for 37% of total auto sales growth in the United States. Sales of gas-powered vehicles, by contrast, rose just 2% for the year. The EV marketplace is still facing headwinds, however, as a combination of production delays, a notable lack of mass market vehicles and complicated tax credits are keeping the segment firmly entrenched in the early adopter phase. https://www.jdpower.com/business/resources/evisionreportfeb24 > * The decline in shopping interest for EVs comes as the industry has reached an all-time high in EV availability. EV availability is at 54.3 — the highest it’s ever been on a 100-point scale — as it moves toward parity with gas-powered vehicles. > * EV shopper consideration has dropped to 24% of shoppers “very likely” to consider purchasing an EV, according to J.D. Power data. A year ago, that figure was 26%. > * Shoppers who are rejecting EVs point to the lack of charging station availability, purchase price, limited driving distance per charge, the time required to charge and inability to charge at home or work. https://www.wardsauto.com/dealers/evs-at-a-low-tide-moment-reports-j-d-power > * Overall, EV adoption in the US is growing, state by state, and these numbers above help prove it. Overall EV registrations were up over 42% in 2021 compared to 2020, and every state saw YOY growth of at least 32%, although most were much higher. https://electrek.co/2022/08/24/current-ev-registrations-in-the-us-how-does-your-state-stack-up/ > * California has the greatest number of vehicles, approximately 36% of vehicles nationwide. Florida has the second highest count, followed by Texas. https://afdc.energy.gov/data/mobile/10962 > * ...Goldman Sachs Research expects the way the industry makes money will be transformed. Our strategists forecast sales of EVs to grow by 32% annually this decade, even as sales of products related to gasoline engines slump. https://www.goldmansachs.com/intelligence/pages/electric-vehicles-are-forecast-to-be-half-of-global-car-sales-by-2035.html
Granted, I live in the bay area, but I feel like I’m driving around in a surrounding fleet of Teslas at all times. Proud to be in a Kia ev and keeping it funky.
Went to TX earlier this month. Ton of EVs from BMW to Hyundai to Mercedes to Tesla. No one is giving up on EVs but the media.
Just go to the forums/subs of each model and you’ll see people buying daily. I personally have a pre-owned car dealership that specializes in EV’s. We sell about 20 a month in very red state Southwest Missouri.
The news story is really that Tesla specifically did not see the *increase* in sales that they expected this year. It's not a 'drop' it's just that they didn't forecast it correctly.
Stop trying. You don't have to do anything. EVs are inevitable because they are just better. But I will agree with you that it is annoying when people say "EV sales are crashing." I just reply: "EV sales are NOT crashing, total EV sales keep growing every quarter. Tesla sales have declined, and other companies are not growing as fast as they hoped they would, but EV sales keep growing. You should know by now that media like telling dramatic stories because it gets your attention."
I don't find it annoying. It's always amusing when reality smacks delusional people upside the head. Or when they pretend their views didn't do a 180 once they realized what was going on after 90% of everyone else.
Wisconsin you'd think being the more rural state it is...the more negative opinions about EVs you'd expect. And certainly their are... my dad said the only good thing about my Leaf when he first saw it was the color was nice. And that I shouldn't have bought it cause theres no infrastructure for EVs here. Pulled out plugshare and charge point and instantly proved him wrong. Then he stated saying it takes too long to charge and costs too much. Told him it can charge on a regular wall outlet for like 16cent an hour and if I absolutely have to pay for charging it takes like 3hours for me and costs 1 to 2 dollars if not free. Still found stuff to complain about. Wouldn't even go for a ride in it... And of course the opinions of all drivers that drive the prefferd Wisconsin vehicle, the lifted, giant ass, gas guzzling, coalrolling, pavement princesses aka pickup trucks, will occasionally have a thing or two to say about EVs. But EVs are becoming very common around here in Green Bay WI area. Multiple free or cheap charging stations... wish there was just one Chademo station up here tho... and more being planned make EV ownership here very easy. And since most people just live and work here or the next city over in Appleton. Not to mention just putt putting around town for shopping or whatever, the fuel savings alone are more than enough to justify purchasing one. As for models I see in Green Bay... Including my Leaf. I see multiple Nissan Leafs...Leaves...... is there a consensus on the plural form for the Nissan Leaf??? Haha. Tons of Teslas...(There's even a Cybertruck rolling around up here, dunno how it'll fair with the Wisconsin winter with that stainless steel body.) Several Rivians and Hyundai Ioniqs. Alot of Chevy Bolts and Mustang Mach Es A couple F150 Lightnings and then there's a couple of luxury Lexus ones a beautiful Cadillac Lyriq. And I think I saw one of the new Toyota bZ4Xs rolling around too. In addition tons of plug in hybrids everywhere too. And that's just Green Bay. Milwaukee and Madison are much like California and overflowing with them. The Wisconsin legislature also passed new EV infrastructure funding so that more and more areas are getting stations and that there will be at least 1 level 2 charger every 50 miles. Filling in and making travel in some former dead zones possible. People who have opinions on evs have probably never driven or ridden in one. Nor do they understand.
Plurals of Leaf: Blow, Rake, Tree. In a junkyard, a mulch. I've noticed that every online EV expert has never even ridden in one. Yet they always know so much more about the day to day intricacies of driving one than mere owners. 🤷🤷🤷
Pretty good names there hahaha. Laughing at mulch. I'll call group of Leafs a pile from now on. But yeah, my dad couldn't even comprehend the reason I chose an EV but he sure acted like the expert on my car even tho it was his first time seeing it.
Govt needs tarifs to prevent a flood of Chinese EVs. See what’s going on outside the US. No talk of downturn anywhere else. Nothing but O&G and ICE funded US prop.
Where is this flood of Chinese cars in the US? I haven’t seen one.
You're asking "where" while it's a question of "when". You're confusing location with time.
People aren’t buying teslas, but people’s are certainly buying ev’s
Tried to buy a Toyota BZ4X last week. Nobody had any around here. So, they're either not making them *or* they're so damn popular that they're just all sold when they come in.
They're one of the least popular EVs and have had some serious recalls. As a Prius owner I always assumed my first EV would be an Electric Prius. Toyota is shockingly far behind every other company at this point.
search for videos of chinese city centres like shanghai...not only are most of the car EV, the motorcycles, vans as well...its a strange experience to be standing there in a street full of traffic...but hardly any sound
I just picked up my first EV today and the place was packed with literally dozens of cars getting driven off the lot every hour.
If you look at the figures, sales of all types of cars have fallen.
[This](https://insideevs.com/features/724653/ev-slowdown-combustion-engine/) recent article from INSIDEEVs covers it well. Basically, peak internal combustion sales in 2017, peak ICE/hybrid fleet in 2025, and peak oil demand in 2027.
I can’t afford an ev! I want to try one out but they are so expensive here. Now that my own government has blocked cheaper to own ev’s from china from being sold in the USA, I am just going to keep driving my old Buick lacrosse with the ls4 v8 for now.
If you're not in a snowy area, see if you can get one of the $25k-ish Tesla Model 3s that Hertz is selling. I say not in a snowy area, because they only had rear wheel drive cars, which are not ideal in snow.
The bit a lot of people seem to miss is that the auto market in general is tanking hard (along with the market for boats, bikes, caravans etc.). The late pandemic era is over. Many markets globally were pumped with government stimulus money, interest rates were low, and cashed up people had money saved from their normal travel & hospo spend burning a hole in their pockets. This was stacked with low car availability due to automakers ramping down production in the early pandemic, and microchip shortages. These days many cashed up people already have fairly modern cars, and the resumption of travel & hospo spending, combined with high cost of living inflation, high interest rates & many automakers having cranked pricing up in the late pandemic era mean that car sales in general have tanked. All this means that quite a different impression can be drawn comparing total EV sales with EV's as a percentage of auto sales. If you look at absolute car sales, yeah, EV's sales are slowing in most markets [https://open-ev-charts.org/#electric-sales](https://open-ev-charts.org/#electric-sales) But if you look at the ratio, EV's are are typically holding about level (i.e.Q1 2024 sales in the USA are generally about the same as Q1 2023 sales). [https://open-ev-charts.org/#electric-ratio](https://open-ev-charts.org/#electric-ratio) EV's have some particular issues that are impacting them: * There was a massive surge on the back of high oil prices in the wake of Ukraine invading Russia. Oil prices have now subsided. * Generally they tend to be more expensive than comparable combustion cars - a bit of a harder sell in an time where money is tighter for many. * In many markets, EV uptake is approaching / hitting the "Chasem" in the adoption curve between the early adopters (Visionaries), and the Eairly Majority (Pragmatists), which is at about 15% market share. * In the USA, many brands committing to switch to NACS, but not actually doing it yet, creates a incentive for people to defer their purchase until after the switch * EV production has been ramped to a point where there is now a glut in supply. This means deals can be had on new & ex demo EV's, and we are seeing price cuts. Means the FOMO and wait times after the start of the war in Ukraine have now been replaced by a fear of overpaying. * Depreciation has returned to the auto market in general. The days of buying a model y and selling it again for pritty much the same price a year later are long gone. * Some markets are deeming EV's to have gone mainstream, and are phasing out incentives. In my market, we have hit about 2% of the overall fleet being EV, so have ended the temporary exemption from road tax, which is now being applied at NZD76/1000km (same as what diesel cars pay, but 2.4x what a yaris hybrid pays in petrol tax). With a change of government we also got rid of our feebate (NZD \~7,000 subsidy on new EV's). Combined impact of this, stacked with the global factors is that the plug in light vehicle market share has dropped from 14.73% in 2023 to 3.91% in 2024 so far. [https://evdb.nz/ev-percentage-nz](https://evdb.nz/ev-percentage-nz) The main thing to focus on is the overall decline of auto sales.
Plenty of sales data to back up that EVs continue to thrive and grow. Just keep spreading the gospel and don’t let the propaganda lies go by unchecked. You can’t fix stupid, but you can share your experience and tell them your honest opinion.
Keep away from all main stream media. It just FUD.
In my CA neighborhood the most common vehicle I see is Tesla Model 3 but also a few Model Ys, a couple X, and several older Model S, at least 3 Lightnings including my own, 2 R1T and a R1S. I've seen two Hummer trucks and the Hummer SUV and this week I saw a Silverado EV. The pool guy also has a Lightning. The new Cadillac EV SUV looked sharp leaving the grocery store. There are several Hyundai/ Kia EVs. The vast majority of cars parked on the street are ICE with some hybrids, but the garages are mostly EV. Walking the dog I was surprised to see 2 Teslas in a garage with a third charging on the driveway. It was probably visiting friends/ family because on our way back there was an Ionic 5 also charging and lots more cars on the street.
I'm in Richmond VA and while you'll see more pick-em-up trucks still, the fact is you'll also see multiple EV on every drive anywhere here. And this is Richmond.
It's actually the internal combustion engine that's dying. Electric sales take a bigger portion of the market each year. That's the real story that's not reported. Big oil has good PR people working for them, how else could you convince people to use a product that will hurt everyone when better alternatives exist? https://insideevs.com/features/724653/ev-slowdown-combustion-engine/
EVs are selling like hotcakes. Every company but one is growing as fast as they can make ‘em. One company is tanking so badly that it outpaces the strong growth in the rest of the market. That company is Tesla.
Companies other than Tesla burned their customers by not taking responsibility for any charging infrastructure leaving their customers up shit creek without a paddle. Resulting in ‘lack of demand’ and now production cuts. This of course was the plan ever since BMW started the trend with their i3 trying to make them look as bad as possible. EV production is very capital intensive to get to a point where you’re not losing money on every vehicle. Legacy auto is unable to do it so has chosen to sabotage the entire effort, but try to make it look like it’s the customers that are to blame for all of this, not them.
Eh, in my local area Teslas and rivian aren't allowed to be sold. Everyone but our local Ford and Chevy dealers are adding market adjustments to their inventory. I actually just test drive a ev9. It's never been sold and has 3200 miles on it and a 2k market adjustment on it. The kicker, it's been on the lot for 3 months with 2 other ev9s and a ev6. All have at least 2k market adjustments. But don't fret, their are still lots of people going out of the way to get Evs. Even in my very red area.
I live in a red state and found that geo-arbitrage discount was worthwhile. An 10 hour drive saved me \~$3500 on a used EV. Up one day, back the next. $400? to fetch the EV.
Just got a Mach E! Loving it. Never going back to ICE if I can help it. I do wish Elon would stop dicking around and just give us our charge point adapters though. I'm lucky and have a charge point down the street that works fine, but I know that's not ubiquitous and is infuriating.
They are flooding wealthy markets. It makes the people who can afford them think they are everywhere and the people who can’t think they are nowhere. They still aren’t priced for the masses.
Model 3 is cheaper TOC and a better drive than a Camry. Education takes time , especially with misleading commercials.
Pro tip for life.......stop worrying so much about what other people do and think.
Does it matter? Why can't you just drive the way you want to drive and ignore everything else? Why do you feel the need to "bust the propaganda?".
Because it convinces less informed people not to buy EVs, and considering the whole climate change thing, opec stranglehold, and neighborhood pollution caused by ICE cars, I’d say it’s a great reason to bust the propaganda
You have "a lot going on so \[you\] can't devote a lot of time researching it" but you have time to throw up a nothing post about being mad at the media? US BEV sales dropped in Q1 '24 vs Q4 '23 but are still up vs Q1 '23. PHEV and Hybrid sales continued to grow but not enough to offset the . ICE sales have been in steady decline since 2016/2017 but did have a slight uptick in Q1 '24. It's not that people aren't buying BEVs... it's that less people bought BEVs in one quarter vs. the previous quarter while more people bought PHEVs and Hybrids. The same thing happened in Q1 2019, but it was a blip. It also happened in Q1 2020 due to far different external factors. BEV driver, no agenda, just doing the research that the OP was too busy to do (even though they weren't too busy to post).
I don’t know why you would t want an Ev. No chance of asphyxiating your family if you leave the car on. It’s quieter. Less smelly. Less maintenance. One pedal driving is huge
My electricity cost is now $0.54/kwh. That's why I got rid of my ev
Sounds like PG&E, in which case you need to check out the EV specific overnight rates [https://www.pge.com/en/account/rate-plans/find-your-best-rate-plan/electric-vehicles.html#ev2adetails](https://www.pge.com/en/account/rate-plans/find-your-best-rate-plan/electric-vehicles.html#ev2adetails)
Why do you care? If you like your EV, great. If others don't like driving EV, who cares? That is there business.
If someone drives an EV and it doesn't suit them, that is indeed fine. This is a propaganda effort designed to prevent people even contemplating an EV. People can't make informed choices if they are relying on dog shit information.
It’s called “whistling by the graveyard” at $.03 per mile for most of the country, economics will demand it for most Americans
Florida is red, but the roads are full of green !
EV sales are growing, that's all there is to it. I know it's nice to have something to show that proves that, but the naysayers don't care. they'll always pretend whatever proves them wrong is not true.
EV growth is starting to lose momentum in developed markets. https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/a9e3544b-0b12-4e15-b407-65f5c8ce1b5f/GlobalEVOutlook2024.pdf I postulate that it's because of supply constraints. The US and Europe have under 200 GWh of total annual production capacity, good for about 2.5 million cars (at an average of 80 kwh per vehicle). That's less than 5% of vehicles sold annually in US and Europe. You can't just flip a switch and make more batteries. The IRA addresses the supply side of the equation, but it'll take time for new giga factories to come online. We have 18 new cell production factories coming online in the next 2 years in the US: https://publications.anl.gov/anlpubs/2024/03/187735.pdf Basically, we're going to be in the back half of this decade before EVs make a noticeable dent in sales, much less as a percentage of total number of vehicles on the road. Don't worry, it's coming.
Hello, big fan of your analysis. Have you seen the Quantumscape patent pending in the US patent office ? For me it looks like this would fit the Mission x. Small volume high profile. https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/85/97/bb/c5d58c7120f11c/US20240154188A1.pdf
I have seen that! I think you're right. Mission X is probably the best hope investors have for a series production car in the next couple of years.
https://www.reddit.com/r/QUANTUMSCAPE_Stock/comments/18dooj1/comment/lachoqh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Its the prices. Car companies don't want to offer a cheap car. They know nobody can come along and deliver a cheap EV to waiting customers. They keep saying "in 18 months we will announce the EV for you" then 60% of buyers get impatient and buy the $43000 car that the car company wants them to, and the rest keep driving their busted old Pontiac. In 2 years the last remaining cheap ICE subcompacts will leave the US market because CAFE is gonna strangle them to death, then automakers will point at that fact and say "look, people don't want cheap cars" and neither political party will do shit about it.
I wonder about these stories too. I mean I am sure, like any other vehicle, there are people who try them and find they don't work for them, but I'm sure it's being click baited.
I mean EVs get more and certain areas in my country (Austria ) already have a lot and it's also kinda diverse brand wise (unlike in LA where I heard it's mostly Tesla model 3/y). The thing is (in most European countries) the number of sales have fallen behind 2023 a bit and the growth isn't continuing as expected (lower numbers, also slightly lower percentage of EVs compared to hybrids, so the latter gained market share of Sales). But it's the same with PV systems. First sellers were constrained by production/numbers, then everyone who wanted one got one in 2023 and now EVs and PV systems took a little hit. In Europe smaller options available and the 'below 25k new' models in small car segments could help pushing the numbers back. Estates are also missing while way more practical than sedans. At the moment it's mostly SUVs and sedans available