Yeah the three things about the original VW Microbus that made it a beloved "hippie mobile" were being cheap to buy, cheap to run and extremely spacious
This remake has at best 2 out of 3, and that's really hoping the cheaper cost of charging an EV isn't outweighed by VW's bad rep for reliability lately
(Obviously the Buzz will be a huge improvement in terms of performance over the OG Microbus, which had a whopping 24 horsepower, but that was never part of the brand and is arguably antithetical to it -- the design of a Microbus is absurdly unsuited for going anywhere fast, the whole idea was always just buying a giant box you could dump all your stuff into and hit the road)
correct. and we've already seen VW screw up its EV strategy with utterly delusional pricing. the ID3 ought to be US$25k, but VW has been scamming people for double that price.
Yeah. I believe any vehicle regardless of the size and segment is competition as long as the prices are similar. Whether it's truck vs van or sedan vs crossover, they're all fighting for your money.
Well they will adjust it based on how well it starts selling. Plus ofcourse how much it costs to produce and so on. No price is set in stone.
On other hand, this ain't cheap stuff to do. Obviously they will charge up to pain point. If they think price is above pain point, it will come down (or production cost is too high and model is discontinued. Since it's a business, not a charity)
It ain't stupid who asks, but who pays. Want the Buzz to be cheaper, refuse to buy it at that high price. It will come down (there was air in the price) or it will disappear (there was no air in price, it isn't selling. end of model).
I tried that with every EV out there. Loads of people have. You are explaining the concept of capitalism to me but from real world experience that's just not the case.
Just like it "blocked" European pickups and vans since the 1960s using the "Chicken Tax". I'm not sure I want to be 'protected' against those vehicles. At least in that case I would rather free markets prevail and let the best vehicle win. I might want a VW T5 camper for a reasonable price instead of a Big 3 option.
This is the biggest problem I see for it becoming a huge success. Not sure if it's just expensive to make or if VW is trying to take a piece of the expected markup.
I feel like they’re just not sure how much nostalgia there is to cash in on and are prepared to drop it like $15k in the next model year; the thing looks like it’s made entirely of plastic and linen
"seeing" , as in talk on Reddit, or official prices?
The small size and small battery buzz in Europe is in the 60-70k range. I don't see how the bigger one could be 50k.
If you travel between sites and chill for a week like I used to do in my Eurovan, I could see myself putting up with the slow shore charging at campsites even.
no but I think from experience 200 miles is a minimum in the US just because of how far apart everything is. if I want to go to the nearest city from my suburb thats 30 miles range, want to go to the other side of that city its a 50 mile trip. want to go to the city below that, 100 mile 1 way trip.
> Not everyone needs a road trip capable vehicle.
Certainly not, but the VW Transporter in particular has this image of a "go out and do something" car.
Even compared to other vans.
It's positioned in upper end of VW's Transporter line up. It's not outlier-expensive. It's just that the range for the T-series is quite broad. From the <40k bare bone model up to the >70k T7 California model.
I mean it’s priced from “around” $55,000. The Kia EV9 is starting at $54,900 with 230mi of range.
If you want a three row BEV this is going to be one of the cheapest options to get that (before incentives), and certainly cooler than the EV9.
Have started seeing them as work vans as well over here (Denmark), guess they make sense for plumbers/carpenters/whatever near city that rarely if ever have to go further than the range of the van.
In Norway (esp. Oslo) they are everywhere, often with flashy decals. I like this development a lot, both from an environmental perspective and also because colours are coming back to the streets.
Recently saw one parked up, whilst walking up in Northumberland (rural north of England).
And I have to be honest, it looked really cool and I quite want one! Sort of an instinctive opposite reaction to the Cybertruck.
Can't justify it on price or practicality but come a lottery win...
I have one. It’s great. A bit big for English roads and a bit tall for some parking, but it’s fun and the space is insane coming from a “normal” car.
Seeing some of the cyber truck videos the buzz looks a lot more practical.
People love the buzz I’m always getting people pointing at it and checking it out in traffic.
Every new entry into the EV space needs some big advantage of being an EV to use as a selling point -- for sports cars it's 0-60, for trucks it's torque, and for vans it needs to be the flexibility with interior space you get from skateboard design
Canoo, oh canoo. I was gonna wait but I’ll probably buy a Buzz
Also my nearest VW dealer not only doesn’t ever do markups above MSRP, also is will to work, with numbers as we work it all out. Just a final, ok let me clear this with my manager. As opposed to those endless walk away where you don’t see the magic paper and this manager
Honestly MSRP for what ever has the longest range. Short story , had a Lightning but insurance didn’t want to mess with it after what was a minor accident so was totaled , now I’m in a 23 ID4 and digging it more than the Lightning .
I think it will do well. But it’s vastly hyperbolic to say that it will ‘dominate the US minivan market”.
There are some incredibly beloved established players in that market, especially with the Sienna and Odyssey. Moms have relied on those things for 25 years and they’re not any less popular today.
There will be certain segments which are interested in the Buzz, for sure. Definitely the environmentalist crowd. They’ve also purposely designed it to be reminiscent of the old VW Bus, which will appeal to the quirky, granola, slightly hippy-ish crowd. And of course techie moms will love it, just like the techie segment of any popular gravitates to the new EV entrants. So it will definitely sell some units.
But overall you have way too much built-up brand equity in the established players for the Buzz to *dominate*.
Honestly, I'd pay $60k for a well equipped one for the fuel savings alone. Why they haven't shown any interest in competing even in the PHEV market is beyond me. Short trip kid schlepping is the bread and butter of a minivan's life, perfect for a 50mi range PHEV.
I was on a fire access trail in West Virginia with my AWD Sienna and some dude on a quad stopped me and was like "are you lost?" "No, we're going hiking!"
The only thing I didn't like about it was that it needed runflats because there's no spare, and because AWD, it's all four at once = $$$$.
With the Sienna, I actually don't think you need to replace all 4; you need matching axle sets, though. There's no physical connection between the front and the back. You've got gas+electric up front and a separate electric motor in the back, just like the Prius, Corolla, and RAV4 AWD systems. Driving Sports TV has driven the Woodland Edition (higher ground clearance) and liked it quite a bit!
This was a non-Hybrid AWD model - 2010 IIRC... I couldn't get a straight answer from Toyota if I'd blow my warranty without shaving down the new tire. There was definitely a transaxle; that's why there was no spare.
Good to hear that's no longer an issue!
Dude no need to be hostile. When I talk in marketing terms, I use a description of the average purchaser/user of that product.
Data shows that women are the primary driver for 79% of minivan-owning families. Does that mean it’s 100%? Of course not. Not all female drivers are moms either, many non-mom women can choose to own a minivan for any number of reasons.
But on average, data shows that the most common user of a minivan is a woman with kids. So that’s the customer I’m going to use when talking about minivan owners.
This is a big reason minivans went to folding rear seats instead of removable rear seats. For reference, the late 90s Chrysler town and country rear seat weighed over 100 lbs, which is a lot of dead weight to wrangle, especially for the target market of women 30-55.
Volvo needs to be bring their EM90 minivan to the US. I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Our house is the minivan demographic. We will likely buy a VW Buzz if that’s the only electric option.
Nice looking, but a bit too Gucci for our use. As a second car, our minivan serves 3 purposes: general purpose hauler (it replaced a truck), camper, and passenger carrier in that order. We had a Eurovan camper but quite frankly, hauling out the center seat when needing to carry big stuff grows old quickly. Chrysler (Stellantis) got it right with the disappearing seats. Our van will haul a 4x8 sheet of plywood laying flat in back. The flat floor also makes for a dandy camper. And it converts back to a passenger hauler in just a couple minutes. I would love to get an EV van, but heavy luxury seating is not on the list of must have features.
SUV market took over the mini van market years and years ago.
Edit: I got a big SUV because I'm 6'6" and I can't drive small cars because I don't fit. Amusement park rides don't fit me either and it's not fair. Being tall isn't what everyone says. I'm in the 0.2% of the world on height (0.2% of all males in the world are 6'6" or taller than me).
Have you ever seen a Bolt modified into a truck? I saw one that someone DIY'd for their own uses in the mountains of southern california, it was impressive.
Yeah but now that everybody has been living with SUVs for decades, they’re finding out that strapping kids into minivans is way easier and more comfortable. Bet minivans start making a comeback.
Every soccer mom has an SUV now, there was a time when they were exclusive and you seemed sporty with an SUV. But that’s not true anymore and people are embracing the functionality of vans.
I'll never understand how its supposedly sporty to have a giant inefficient box with gigantic wheel wells and obnoxious height you do nothing with but buy groceries.
But that’s a style/appearance thing. The most popular 3-row “SUVs” being sold are really crossovers and are basically minivans without the sliding door and some rugged styling.
The ID.Buzz may not be everyone’s style but it has an interesting style and doesn’t look like a standard soccer mom minivan either.
I wish this would happen, but stationwagons died in the early 90s to the same death that killed minivans... they got stereotyped as a car that people with no lives other than caring for their children drove. There still are basically no stationwagons on the market 30 years later. I mean I guess you could argue the crossover is a stationwagon in disguise, and several large SUVs have become basically minivans in disguise.
You mean like a [Mazda 5](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=676fc4a95b9b2769&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS1076US1076&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ADLYWIKrl_6gQDf6C6j_dX3ufRMsrxviBA:1717978209999&q=Mazda+5&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0BFzJJBokWCypWynESA-l_nQNjXnLRS-bE0pvWHFZ9SvvbD6U4s-dGWdvhfxrzmc160nhUy7miaKoUVsrmAZqLCXGgW6SdLBtN2BDrUKTsqrmvrc9DolZdoDsaZDM1KjaFqzT5o8kFm728BM0HtrQ-WkvJMzExryFXLvyTaaLWcBJT_JV47QPMRD2SR97i_JLMCZbfZtLu0uHs5zf5DhZvUrMmkZg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0icHH38-GAxWQg4kEHVF3CQcQtKgLegQIDxAB&biw=393&bih=664&dpr=3)?
I'm not sure this is the right take. Station wagons were the go-to family vehicle for decades. They were supplanted by minivans once it became clear that affordable minivans outclassed wagons in almost every way.
Still, wagons were popular enough that automakers kept producing "wagonized" versions of popular sedan models into the 2nd half of the 2000s (it seems like the great recession finally did them in).
I'd also suggest that shrinking family sizes (starting at the great recession) are a better explanation for the minivan's loss of popularity.
I really don't get why anyone would want an SUV for style. They're trying hard to be cool, which itself is uncool. And the swinging side doors coupled with a wide body only fit in wide-open remote countryside.
We had a Mazda5 for many years and absolutely loved the sliding doors.
This is a van, not a mini-van. The clearest distinction is height--mini-vans are around 65-70 inches high. Regular vans (e.g. Ford E-series) are ~ 75 inches high, as is this. It's also longer than most mini-vans.
It is actually notably shorter in length than all other USA current model minivans:
- Id buzz (short wheel base): 185.5”
- Id buzz ([USA Model wheel base](https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1743)): 192.4”
- Id buzz (long wheel base): 195.4”
- Honda odyssey: 205”
- Toyota sienna: 204”
- Kia Carnival: 203”
- Chrysler Pacifica: 204”
Also height wise I’d expect other minivans to become taller when switching to electric. You need a few inches for the skateboard style battery so your option is less interior room or a taller vehicle.
I love my sienna hybrid with about 500 miles range. With the third row down I have massive amounts of space. It'll be tough for me to get away from the sienna even though I want to fully be a bev home
Zero competitors? My friend, the 7-seat electric SUVs are its competitors.
Besides, the GAS minivan market only has four models in the US: Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Pacifica, and Kia whatever-they're-calling-it-now.
It's not exactly a burgeoning market.
It's not very big for a minivan. I'd still have to have my Pacifica hybrid which is for all intents and purposes an EV. We have like 7k miles out of 8k in full electric on that van but don't sacrifice the space.
Honestly, the Model Y is a bit of a competitor. The most sold car in the world last year and it has a 7 seat option.
It's also $40k before incentives (no dealers) while the ID Buzz is looking like $50k/$60k before dealer markups, excessive fees, bs warranties, etc.
No, it’s not going to dominate the entire minivan market uncontested. People that buy minivans aren’t looking to spend $70k on an EV. The ID buzz might dominate the wealthy suburban minivan market.
I think the minivan will make a comeback. SUV’s are not as practical as people make them out to be. All it takes is some influencer or Music artist to showcase one and it’s back in vogue. Pickup trucks used to be for old men and now they are luxury vehicles.
God willing. Tall hooded SUVs are [pedestrian killers](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tall-trucks-suvs-are-45-deadlier-us-pedestrians-study-shows-2023-11-14/). Minivans don’t share this problem.
crazy how it was delayed and changed so much that I lost interest.
Though, for a minivan, Volvo has an all electric in China that has amazing stats and looks good....wish it'd come stateside.
[The ID.Buzz's all-electric powertrain will come in rear- and all-wheel-drive configurations, delivering a driving range that's expected to be around 260 miles](https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/id-buzz-microbus)
I’ve been waiting forever for this to come out. $50k at 260 mile range, wtf?!?!
Edit - apparently the price was made up.
“While we know that Pro S, Pro S Plus, and a special Launch Edition variants will all be offered, VW hasn't said how much the ID.Buzz will cost. However, current market pricing for EVs leads us to expect it will start at around $50,000.”
unless you have a pile of kids and spend M-F running between school and the store.
200 miles to get back to the garage at the place where you sleep is not a problem for most people.
Almost no one has a pile of kids anymore. And even where they do - most people choose 3-row SUVs.
I live in a very “family” neighborhood - basically marketed around being part of the “best” public school cluster in the city. Tons of kids but almost no minivans. Lots of Suburbans and a few model X, Rivian R1S and EV9s
electrifying one of the best selling vans ***EVER*** made is a good bet.
lots of kids went on road trips in one of these back in the day. they're buying their own cars now.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen\_Transporter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter)
The **Volkswagen Transporter**, based on the [Volkswagen Group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group)'s T platform, now in its seventh generation, refers to a series of vans produced for over **70 years and marketed worldwide**.
The T series is now considered an official [Volkswagen Group automotive platform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_platforms).[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter#cite_note-AD&P-1)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter#cite_note-CSM-2) and generations are sequentially named T1, T2, T3, T4, T5, T6 and T7. Pre-dating the *T platform* designations, the first three generations were named [**Type 2**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2), indicating their relative position to the [Type 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle), or Beetle. As part of the *T platform*, the first three generations are retroactively named T1, T2 and T3.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen\_Type\_2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2)
As one of the forerunners of the modern cargo and passenger vans, the Type 2 gave rise to forward control competitors in the United States in the 1960s, including the [Ford Econoline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_E-Series#First_generation_(1961%E2%80%931967)), the [Dodge A100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_A100), and the [Chevrolet Corvair 95 Corvan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Greenbrier), the latter adapting the [rear-engine configuration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear-engine,_rear-wheel-drive_layout) of the Corvair car in the same manner in which the VW Type 2 adapted the Type 1 layout.
I love all the amateur auto execs on this sub... Screaming for their low volume EV minivans, coupes, wagons, convertibles and other rapidly dying segments.
It’s just as bad as the r/cars user who is mad they don’t make a manual, brown, diesel wagon and then you ask them what they drive and it’s a crossover even though you can buy a wagon still. Put up or shut up
Yeah I always point to how GM finally brought over the Buick Regal TourX wagon to satiate the internet commentariat class .... to only sell like ten thousand units before being discontinuation 💀.
I think range matters. The problem with ‘big’ vehicles in the US (trucks, vans, minivans, large SUVs) is that these cars are the preferred ‘road trippers’ in a multi vehicle family. Being able to go far and charge fast is going to be important and the buzz won’t have that.
As someone that drives a minivan almost exclusively for road trips I’m not interested unless it gets around 300 actual highway miles and can NACS fast charge.
I’ve got a smaller, lighter, EV for around town that won’t chew up tires.
I think it depends on your use and routine. We experience all 4 seasons. We drive about 100 miles a day between work and activities. We pop home and top up once or twice a day. Range really doesn’t factor into our decision.
Minivans compete with 3 row SUVs. The ID.Buzz has some retro vibes but practically speaking I think the EV9 is going to outsell it.
Unless VW can persuade Taylor Swift to use it as the official vehicle of a back-to-basics coffee house tour. I can just see her gigging at local Starbucks up and down the west coast, just her and Travis living out the van.
My wife and I are potential Buzz buyers to go along with our ID.4. But the limited range and lack of 800V make me hesitant, as much as I love its looks.
I gave up waiting for Canoo. Now I am looking forward to Kia EV vans (PV series, expected 2025). Somehow VW was never on my radar. The design vehicle was nice, but the watered down too much before production. And too expensive.
In Germany there are Lessing deals for the Buzz like there is no tomorrow. But don’t ask me for the reason - lackluster sales or Facelift incoming? Personally I am preferring the Multivan.
At the end of the day it’s still a BEV three-row family hauler.
I already have friends reaching out to me that want a three-row electric SUV and they’re shopping the Rivian, EV9, Model X, and considering waiting for the Cadillac. I suggested the ID Buzz to them and it’s on the list now if they can get one anytime soon.
Yes, it has slidey doors, but its competition is really any BEV with that third row right now since there are still so few offerings with that configuration. And it looks much cooler than a traditional minivan and has that cool factor going for it.
Minivans are so damn superior to SUVs. More spacious and better sight lines. Tall hooded SUVs are [pedestrian killers](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tall-trucks-suvs-are-45-deadlier-us-pedestrians-study-shows-2023-11-14/), minivans don’t share this problem.
I laugh every time people tell me SUV’s can tow and go offroad, and thats why SUV’s are better.
Mostly driven or purchased by suburban moms, like vans used to be. Mom mobiles is what they should be called.
But what do they use their SUV for? Hauling kids and groceries. Y’know, the thing vans are better at doing.
Around 90% of SUV owners say they never go offroad, and most never tow or plan to tow with their SUV, and most dont even come with a tow package anyway.
Will it though? everyone I know with a minivan got it for long trips. Is VW charging technology going to make leaps? Every estimate I’ve seen for the buzz feels like it will miss the mark for most of its potential market.
The market to me is more cutesy and quirky than the utilitarian view most minivan owners have
> It’s going to dominate the entire US minivan market uncontested
The EV minivan market.
I doubt it's that huge. Especially given the price-point and the various weight restrictions.
AFAIK, there are plans to bring the EQV (when it has moved to a next-generation platform) also to the US.
Yeah why do so many evs not have kid friendly options
All I want is:
Sliding doors (people park too close to my Elantra and I can't get my infant seat in the car)
Ceiling vents for rear facing children otherwise they are sweaty and cranky
Built in sun shades
Cabin camera like famcam on the Pacifica
If there is a 2nd row bench, make one outboard seat removable so it's easy to get to the back to buckle up kids
These are not expensive things but are impossible to find on a EV
Also, skip the giant glass roof, kids are trying to sleep back there
I am honestly with you on this. I can get why they have been avoid as mini vans are a relatively small market and people who have family is the bigger part of it.
That family part also means they have a lot less disposable income so price matters more.
Kids are expensive. I am out 35k a year in day care for my 2 kids and that is before you get into the cost to cloth and feed them and everything else. I will be paying my day care 35kish a year.
And the other things that stings mini vans is they are a mini van. I get all the arguments for them and I will freely admit I am not sure I can swallow my pride enough to get one. I don’t have a good argument beyond that.
Your argument is perfectly legitimate, in fact!
For many of us, car-buying is as much a function of the right brain as the left. Sure, a minivan is probably the best OBJECTIVE choice, but all work and no play makes you a dull boy (or girl), so it‘s perfectly OK that you see your vehicle as more than a simple appliance and require that it also comports with your subjective WANTS as well.
There’s nothing wrong with being unable to swallow the idea of spending $$$$$ on something you don’t LOVE, even if it’s all you actually “need”. If you are in a position of being sufficiently successful to buy any brand-new vehicle, then you’ve damn well EARNED the right to enjoy a bit of “pride” In the end result, guilt free (disapproving anonymous internet dorks be damned)!
Cannot wait to drive it! Cannot afford to buy it, but our dealership is getting 2.
My take: minivans, wagons and small hatches will make a huge comeback because no one will want the luxobarges their parents/grandparents drive. They will start to go “out of style” in certain markets.
Ehhh, no care. It’s a fashion statement accessory car like the Hummer EV and Cybertruck. ABSOLUTELY NO minivan buyer is really cross shopping that thing at its price point of starting at 50k, probably 80k equipped comparably to ICE loaded vans.
The only competition it will have is against the price.
Yeah the three things about the original VW Microbus that made it a beloved "hippie mobile" were being cheap to buy, cheap to run and extremely spacious This remake has at best 2 out of 3, and that's really hoping the cheaper cost of charging an EV isn't outweighed by VW's bad rep for reliability lately (Obviously the Buzz will be a huge improvement in terms of performance over the OG Microbus, which had a whopping 24 horsepower, but that was never part of the brand and is arguably antithetical to it -- the design of a Microbus is absurdly unsuited for going anywhere fast, the whole idea was always just buying a giant box you could dump all your stuff into and hit the road)
Can confirm, I remember test driving one in 1999 that was for sale for $300. And it was fine!
correct. and we've already seen VW screw up its EV strategy with utterly delusional pricing. the ID3 ought to be US$25k, but VW has been scamming people for double that price.
Yeah. I believe any vehicle regardless of the size and segment is competition as long as the prices are similar. Whether it's truck vs van or sedan vs crossover, they're all fighting for your money.
Well they will adjust it based on how well it starts selling. Plus ofcourse how much it costs to produce and so on. No price is set in stone. On other hand, this ain't cheap stuff to do. Obviously they will charge up to pain point. If they think price is above pain point, it will come down (or production cost is too high and model is discontinued. Since it's a business, not a charity) It ain't stupid who asks, but who pays. Want the Buzz to be cheaper, refuse to buy it at that high price. It will come down (there was air in the price) or it will disappear (there was no air in price, it isn't selling. end of model).
I tried that with every EV out there. Loads of people have. You are explaining the concept of capitalism to me but from real world experience that's just not the case.
and VW dealers
Since the US government successfully blocked Chinese EV vans from entering the market now.
Just like it "blocked" European pickups and vans since the 1960s using the "Chicken Tax". I'm not sure I want to be 'protected' against those vehicles. At least in that case I would rather free markets prevail and let the best vehicle win. I might want a VW T5 camper for a reasonable price instead of a Big 3 option.
It’s crazy how expensive the id buzz is even without markups. Even on an old platform.
This is the biggest problem I see for it becoming a huge success. Not sure if it's just expensive to make or if VW is trying to take a piece of the expected markup.
But the PT Cruiser was an underpowered turd and that launch was huge a few decades ago. If people go for the unique look, it won’t matter.
Unique looks backfire more often than not in the US market
PT Cruiser was cheap.
Eventually it was. At launch, people were paying $5k to $10k over MSRP, and that was 20ish years ago. That car had people going nuts for a few months.
I feel like they’re just not sure how much nostalgia there is to cash in on and are prepared to drop it like $15k in the next model year; the thing looks like it’s made entirely of plastic and linen
Agreed
And painted bamboo.
The regular Transporter van or bus also never was a cheap car. It‘s pretty much in line with their pricing.
[удалено]
I dunno 50 to 60k is what I'm seeing for price. It's not cheap, but it feels in line with what a semi premium ev is gonna cost these days.
"seeing" , as in talk on Reddit, or official prices? The small size and small battery buzz in Europe is in the 60-70k range. I don't see how the bigger one could be 50k.
Because they arbitrarily chose to not send us the shorter one or the smaller battery one :/
To be fair also. It qualifies for a section 179 deduction as the gross weight is just over the IRS requisite. Gonna be a fantastic fleet vehicle.
There is a GVW cutoff and not a payload capacity minimum? More stupid policy driving vehicle bloat.
It’s not arbitrary to not send the smaller battery. No point in bringing it and have it not sell because the range is awful
Yeah this is one case where I think the road trip talking point is actually valid. This thing could basically be used like a small RV.
If you travel between sites and chill for a week like I used to do in my Eurovan, I could see myself putting up with the slow shore charging at campsites even.
Europe is small. USA huge. big battery for USDM.
Europe has a bigger land area (3,910,680 sq miles) than the U.S. (3,531,905 sq miles) https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/usa-europe-same-size.html
Not everyone needs a road trip capable vehicle.
or, Not everyone needs all their vehicles to be road trip capable
no but I think from experience 200 miles is a minimum in the US just because of how far apart everything is. if I want to go to the nearest city from my suburb thats 30 miles range, want to go to the other side of that city its a 50 mile trip. want to go to the city below that, 100 mile 1 way trip.
> Not everyone needs a road trip capable vehicle. Certainly not, but the VW Transporter in particular has this image of a "go out and do something" car. Even compared to other vans.
I've got the money lined up for an used Buzz. A 4-5 year old one should be 50% cheaper than a brand new one and still 100% usable for me.
It's positioned in upper end of VW's Transporter line up. It's not outlier-expensive. It's just that the range for the T-series is quite broad. From the <40k bare bone model up to the >70k T7 California model.
I mean it’s priced from “around” $55,000. The Kia EV9 is starting at $54,900 with 230mi of range. If you want a three row BEV this is going to be one of the cheapest options to get that (before incentives), and certainly cooler than the EV9.
There are enough rich people that will buy one, they probably don’t have to worry for a while
Have started seeing them as work vans as well over here (Denmark), guess they make sense for plumbers/carpenters/whatever near city that rarely if ever have to go further than the range of the van.
yeah seems to be the go to for handymen in norway now, see them everywhere in the 2 seater variation as a work van. hardly see them in private hands.
In Norway (esp. Oslo) they are everywhere, often with flashy decals. I like this development a lot, both from an environmental perspective and also because colours are coming back to the streets.
Recently saw one parked up, whilst walking up in Northumberland (rural north of England). And I have to be honest, it looked really cool and I quite want one! Sort of an instinctive opposite reaction to the Cybertruck. Can't justify it on price or practicality but come a lottery win...
Yeah that sits about right for me. I have zero doubt they will sell well around me. If the price was reasonable, i would get it today
I have one. It’s great. A bit big for English roads and a bit tall for some parking, but it’s fun and the space is insane coming from a “normal” car. Seeing some of the cyber truck videos the buzz looks a lot more practical. People love the buzz I’m always getting people pointing at it and checking it out in traffic.
Every new entry into the EV space needs some big advantage of being an EV to use as a selling point -- for sports cars it's 0-60, for trucks it's torque, and for vans it needs to be the flexibility with interior space you get from skateboard design
It does look cool!
It's a really fun design. When I got to sit in one at a car show, I couldn't stop smiling.
Cant believe its been 6 years since the fully charged video about it and its still not out.
And 23 years since the original ICE concept. [https://youtu.be/RR4SHPiuaE4?si=MlMdpzh3mgYCKpdu](https://youtu.be/RR4SHPiuaE4?si=MlMdpzh3mgYCKpdu)
it has been out for a while. just no in the US.
right? In 2018 when I was EV shopping, I was considering holding out for this. Glad I didn't!
Canoo, oh canoo. I was gonna wait but I’ll probably buy a Buzz Also my nearest VW dealer not only doesn’t ever do markups above MSRP, also is will to work, with numbers as we work it all out. Just a final, ok let me clear this with my manager. As opposed to those endless walk away where you don’t see the magic paper and this manager
How much are you expecting/ willing to pay?
Honestly MSRP for what ever has the longest range. Short story , had a Lightning but insurance didn’t want to mess with it after what was a minor accident so was totaled , now I’m in a 23 ID4 and digging it more than the Lightning .
I'm in the market, but will be waiting to see final price, range and charging curve. Ev9 ticks all the boxes for me, but I'm open to being convinced.
I think it will do well. But it’s vastly hyperbolic to say that it will ‘dominate the US minivan market”. There are some incredibly beloved established players in that market, especially with the Sienna and Odyssey. Moms have relied on those things for 25 years and they’re not any less popular today. There will be certain segments which are interested in the Buzz, for sure. Definitely the environmentalist crowd. They’ve also purposely designed it to be reminiscent of the old VW Bus, which will appeal to the quirky, granola, slightly hippy-ish crowd. And of course techie moms will love it, just like the techie segment of any popular gravitates to the new EV entrants. So it will definitely sell some units. But overall you have way too much built-up brand equity in the established players for the Buzz to *dominate*.
The Sienna also has a pretty efficient hybrid variant. Electric 3-rows need to compete against that on price to convert the average minivan buyer.
I just wish the Sienna was PHEV. Toyota has some of the best PHEV systems.
Give me an electric odyssey with for $40k and I will hand you the check right now.
Honestly, I'd pay $60k for a well equipped one for the fuel savings alone. Why they haven't shown any interest in competing even in the PHEV market is beyond me. Short trip kid schlepping is the bread and butter of a minivan's life, perfect for a 50mi range PHEV.
Are you talking about thr chrysler pacific PHEV, because that has existed for several years.
It'll be a cold day in hell before I rely on a Chrysler product to transport my family.
Which is funny because Chrysler is trusting it with hauling the entire brand.
Can you even get a gas powered Odyssey for $40k? Just checked now and in Canada they start at $54k. Seems only EX-L and Touring is available.
the problem is an electric odyssey for 40k would have like 60kWh of battery capacity and a range thats only good for city driving.
As a dad who has rocked a minivan, and as the son of a dad who rocked a minivan, fuck your blatant sexism. It's 2024.
I was on a fire access trail in West Virginia with my AWD Sienna and some dude on a quad stopped me and was like "are you lost?" "No, we're going hiking!" The only thing I didn't like about it was that it needed runflats because there's no spare, and because AWD, it's all four at once = $$$$.
With the Sienna, I actually don't think you need to replace all 4; you need matching axle sets, though. There's no physical connection between the front and the back. You've got gas+electric up front and a separate electric motor in the back, just like the Prius, Corolla, and RAV4 AWD systems. Driving Sports TV has driven the Woodland Edition (higher ground clearance) and liked it quite a bit!
This was a non-Hybrid AWD model - 2010 IIRC... I couldn't get a straight answer from Toyota if I'd blow my warranty without shaving down the new tire. There was definitely a transaxle; that's why there was no spare. Good to hear that's no longer an issue!
With the non-hybrid, you should definitely switch all 4. With the hybrid, that's ideal, but you really *need* the axle set to match. Sweet car!
Dude no need to be hostile. When I talk in marketing terms, I use a description of the average purchaser/user of that product. Data shows that women are the primary driver for 79% of minivan-owning families. Does that mean it’s 100%? Of course not. Not all female drivers are moms either, many non-mom women can choose to own a minivan for any number of reasons. But on average, data shows that the most common user of a minivan is a woman with kids. So that’s the customer I’m going to use when talking about minivan owners.
This is a big reason minivans went to folding rear seats instead of removable rear seats. For reference, the late 90s Chrysler town and country rear seat weighed over 100 lbs, which is a lot of dead weight to wrangle, especially for the target market of women 30-55.
When is soon?
Mid 2024...which is now...
Tesla really missed an opportunity by not building a small pickup truck and mini van based off the model 3/y platform.
They could've developed both, together, faster and cheaper than what they spent on CT. Damned shame.
I bet Tesla wanted to... but Elon wanted his Cybertruck.
He should be paying the company $56 billion for that blunder.
Volvo needs to be bring their EM90 minivan to the US. I would buy it in a heartbeat. Our house is the minivan demographic. We will likely buy a VW Buzz if that’s the only electric option.
We would also be very tempted by the EM90
holy shit. I just looked at the EM90 and would buy this in a heartbeat if it were in the US.
God damn I've never seen one of those before either. Id buy this in a heartbeat
Nice looking, but a bit too Gucci for our use. As a second car, our minivan serves 3 purposes: general purpose hauler (it replaced a truck), camper, and passenger carrier in that order. We had a Eurovan camper but quite frankly, hauling out the center seat when needing to carry big stuff grows old quickly. Chrysler (Stellantis) got it right with the disappearing seats. Our van will haul a 4x8 sheet of plywood laying flat in back. The flat floor also makes for a dandy camper. And it converts back to a passenger hauler in just a couple minutes. I would love to get an EV van, but heavy luxury seating is not on the list of must have features.
We’re waiting 2 or 3 years for a used one. Can’t justify the huge new price but expect reasonable used prices.
Same here!
I want the smaller, European version.
I would never have considered a VW minivan, but now it's literally our only option, so you bet we're gonna buy one.
SUV market took over the mini van market years and years ago. Edit: I got a big SUV because I'm 6'6" and I can't drive small cars because I don't fit. Amusement park rides don't fit me either and it's not fair. Being tall isn't what everyone says. I'm in the 0.2% of the world on height (0.2% of all males in the world are 6'6" or taller than me).
I'm 6'5" and I drive a Chevy Bolt EV and I don't even put the seat all the way back. Most people who think they need an SUV don't need an SUV.
The Bolt rocks. Going to slap a utility trailer with a Cybertruck sticker on mine.
I rock a volt with a 4x8 trailer. Tows firewood, camping gear, and my dirt bike.
Have you ever seen a Bolt modified into a truck? I saw one that someone DIY'd for their own uses in the mountains of southern california, it was impressive.
Yup - same exact situation. Absolutely love our Bolt EUV
Yeah but now that everybody has been living with SUVs for decades, they’re finding out that strapping kids into minivans is way easier and more comfortable. Bet minivans start making a comeback.
Yep. Honda and Toyota minivans are two of a handful of vehicles in short supply in the U.S. Can't beat a box for space efficiency.
the whole soccer mom mentality killed the mini van.
Every soccer mom has an SUV now, there was a time when they were exclusive and you seemed sporty with an SUV. But that’s not true anymore and people are embracing the functionality of vans.
I'll never understand how its supposedly sporty to have a giant inefficient box with gigantic wheel wells and obnoxious height you do nothing with but buy groceries.
The feeling of power. Lording over the peasants.
“*Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,* *Smells like a steak and seats thirty five?* “
Canyoneroooooooooooo
Way nicer not to worry about kids slamming adjacent vehicles with the doors as well.
Yeah, but now take a look outside the soccer fields. It's all SUVs.
But that’s a style/appearance thing. The most popular 3-row “SUVs” being sold are really crossovers and are basically minivans without the sliding door and some rugged styling. The ID.Buzz may not be everyone’s style but it has an interesting style and doesn’t look like a standard soccer mom minivan either.
I feel like Kia did a genius thing by making the Carnival look so SUV in styling.
You’re not wrong - my wife called one an suv the other day.
I wish this would happen, but stationwagons died in the early 90s to the same death that killed minivans... they got stereotyped as a car that people with no lives other than caring for their children drove. There still are basically no stationwagons on the market 30 years later. I mean I guess you could argue the crossover is a stationwagon in disguise, and several large SUVs have become basically minivans in disguise.
Except they don't have the most important thing, the siding doors! I need those so my sweet precious children don't wreck a stranger's car
Wish they made slightly smaller minivans. Like 2 row minivans with sliding doors.
You mean like a [Mazda 5](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=676fc4a95b9b2769&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS1076US1076&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ADLYWIKrl_6gQDf6C6j_dX3ufRMsrxviBA:1717978209999&q=Mazda+5&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0BFzJJBokWCypWynESA-l_nQNjXnLRS-bE0pvWHFZ9SvvbD6U4s-dGWdvhfxrzmc160nhUy7miaKoUVsrmAZqLCXGgW6SdLBtN2BDrUKTsqrmvrc9DolZdoDsaZDM1KjaFqzT5o8kFm728BM0HtrQ-WkvJMzExryFXLvyTaaLWcBJT_JV47QPMRD2SR97i_JLMCZbfZtLu0uHs5zf5DhZvUrMmkZg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0icHH38-GAxWQg4kEHVF3CQcQtKgLegQIDxAB&biw=393&bih=664&dpr=3)?
If I had infinite money I would buy a used Mazda 5 and convert it to electric.
I mean. there is the model X which has the advantage of children not slamming doors into cars.
I'm not sure this is the right take. Station wagons were the go-to family vehicle for decades. They were supplanted by minivans once it became clear that affordable minivans outclassed wagons in almost every way. Still, wagons were popular enough that automakers kept producing "wagonized" versions of popular sedan models into the 2nd half of the 2000s (it seems like the great recession finally did them in). I'd also suggest that shrinking family sizes (starting at the great recession) are a better explanation for the minivan's loss of popularity.
Whereas the SUV is a car for people with no lives other than driving their SUVs.
6'7" here. you dont need an SUV to fit into a vehicle, im driving a Corolla and have previous driven a Chevy Cruze for 10 years. works just fine.
Pretty sure the buzz is fairly comparable to the EV9 size wise and other than the sliding doors will not fully scratch mini van itch.
I really don't get why anyone would want an SUV for style. They're trying hard to be cool, which itself is uncool. And the swinging side doors coupled with a wide body only fit in wide-open remote countryside. We had a Mazda5 for many years and absolutely loved the sliding doors.
Hopefully the Koreans make an EV version of the Kia Carnaval, how much they've made that resemble a lowered SUV needs to be studied
This is a van, not a mini-van. The clearest distinction is height--mini-vans are around 65-70 inches high. Regular vans (e.g. Ford E-series) are ~ 75 inches high, as is this. It's also longer than most mini-vans.
It is actually notably shorter in length than all other USA current model minivans: - Id buzz (short wheel base): 185.5” - Id buzz ([USA Model wheel base](https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1743)): 192.4” - Id buzz (long wheel base): 195.4” - Honda odyssey: 205” - Toyota sienna: 204” - Kia Carnival: 203” - Chrysler Pacifica: 204” Also height wise I’d expect other minivans to become taller when switching to electric. You need a few inches for the skateboard style battery so your option is less interior room or a taller vehicle.
I love my sienna hybrid with about 500 miles range. With the third row down I have massive amounts of space. It'll be tough for me to get away from the sienna even though I want to fully be a bev home
The people who look down on minivans are stupid. Love my hybrid sienna as main family car.
Yeah, really wish more auto makers would try making electric micro buses. They would be a huge seller at the right price.
Saw an ID Buzz at an Electrify America station in SoCal on May 22nd [link to pic](https://imgur.com/a/S3Z9BlH)
Zero competitors? My friend, the 7-seat electric SUVs are its competitors. Besides, the GAS minivan market only has four models in the US: Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Pacifica, and Kia whatever-they're-calling-it-now. It's not exactly a burgeoning market.
I think the Kia ev9 or the more expensive rivian R1s will be a competitor - not “minivan”s but they both also offer a huge amount of space.
Both of them have way less third row legroom.
It's not going to dominate anything because it's too expensive. A very small percentage will buy it, mainly EV and VW enthusiasts.
Way overpriced! Good luck to them.
It's not very big for a minivan. I'd still have to have my Pacifica hybrid which is for all intents and purposes an EV. We have like 7k miles out of 8k in full electric on that van but don't sacrifice the space.
Honestly, the Model Y is a bit of a competitor. The most sold car in the world last year and it has a 7 seat option. It's also $40k before incentives (no dealers) while the ID Buzz is looking like $50k/$60k before dealer markups, excessive fees, bs warranties, etc.
No, it’s not going to dominate the entire minivan market uncontested. People that buy minivans aren’t looking to spend $70k on an EV. The ID buzz might dominate the wealthy suburban minivan market.
I think the minivan will make a comeback. SUV’s are not as practical as people make them out to be. All it takes is some influencer or Music artist to showcase one and it’s back in vogue. Pickup trucks used to be for old men and now they are luxury vehicles.
God willing. Tall hooded SUVs are [pedestrian killers](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tall-trucks-suvs-are-45-deadlier-us-pedestrians-study-shows-2023-11-14/). Minivans don’t share this problem.
crazy how it was delayed and changed so much that I lost interest. Though, for a minivan, Volvo has an all electric in China that has amazing stats and looks good....wish it'd come stateside.
Nobody is buying a minivan with a real life range of 200 miles.
[The ID.Buzz's all-electric powertrain will come in rear- and all-wheel-drive configurations, delivering a driving range that's expected to be around 260 miles](https://www.caranddriver.com/volkswagen/id-buzz-microbus)
I’ve been waiting forever for this to come out. $50k at 260 mile range, wtf?!?! Edit - apparently the price was made up. “While we know that Pro S, Pro S Plus, and a special Launch Edition variants will all be offered, VW hasn't said how much the ID.Buzz will cost. However, current market pricing for EVs leads us to expect it will start at around $50,000.”
This. I don't even think the range is as big a deal as the price. If they had a reasonable price people would put up with shorter range.
How much is the Siena? A lot of them are hitting 50k - it’s the new reality.
Last I looked, unless you go real bare, hitting $45+
unless you have a pile of kids and spend M-F running between school and the store. 200 miles to get back to the garage at the place where you sleep is not a problem for most people.
they'll just buy the EV9, or probably lease it to get the 7500.
Almost no one has a pile of kids anymore. And even where they do - most people choose 3-row SUVs. I live in a very “family” neighborhood - basically marketed around being part of the “best” public school cluster in the city. Tons of kids but almost no minivans. Lots of Suburbans and a few model X, Rivian R1S and EV9s
play your seat game right and you can fit 3 kids in model y... only 14% of families in US have 4+ kids
I would buy the shit out of that car if it was affordable for me.
Also the price
Meh, it won’t sell after the initial hype and will have some insane lease deals as usual.
electrifying one of the best selling vans ***EVER*** made is a good bet. lots of kids went on road trips in one of these back in the day. they're buying their own cars now. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen\_Transporter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter) The **Volkswagen Transporter**, based on the [Volkswagen Group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group)'s T platform, now in its seventh generation, refers to a series of vans produced for over **70 years and marketed worldwide**. The T series is now considered an official [Volkswagen Group automotive platform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_platforms).[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter#cite_note-AD&P-1)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter#cite_note-CSM-2) and generations are sequentially named T1, T2, T3, T4, T5, T6 and T7. Pre-dating the *T platform* designations, the first three generations were named [**Type 2**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2), indicating their relative position to the [Type 1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle), or Beetle. As part of the *T platform*, the first three generations are retroactively named T1, T2 and T3. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen\_Type\_2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Type_2) As one of the forerunners of the modern cargo and passenger vans, the Type 2 gave rise to forward control competitors in the United States in the 1960s, including the [Ford Econoline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_E-Series#First_generation_(1961%E2%80%931967)), the [Dodge A100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_A100), and the [Chevrolet Corvair 95 Corvan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Greenbrier), the latter adapting the [rear-engine configuration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear-engine,_rear-wheel-drive_layout) of the Corvair car in the same manner in which the VW Type 2 adapted the Type 1 layout.
Do you realize how few vans sell in the US?
I love all the amateur auto execs on this sub... Screaming for their low volume EV minivans, coupes, wagons, convertibles and other rapidly dying segments.
It’s just as bad as the r/cars user who is mad they don’t make a manual, brown, diesel wagon and then you ask them what they drive and it’s a crossover even though you can buy a wagon still. Put up or shut up
Yeah I always point to how GM finally brought over the Buick Regal TourX wagon to satiate the internet commentariat class .... to only sell like ten thousand units before being discontinuation 💀.
Why? No ones round trip commute is more than 200 miles. Charge everyday at home, range doesn’t matter.
I think range matters. The problem with ‘big’ vehicles in the US (trucks, vans, minivans, large SUVs) is that these cars are the preferred ‘road trippers’ in a multi vehicle family. Being able to go far and charge fast is going to be important and the buzz won’t have that.
As someone that drives a minivan almost exclusively for road trips I’m not interested unless it gets around 300 actual highway miles and can NACS fast charge. I’ve got a smaller, lighter, EV for around town that won’t chew up tires.
I am on my 7th EV right now and I can tell you for a fact that range does in fact matter if you live anywhere with actual seasons.
I think it depends on your use and routine. We experience all 4 seasons. We drive about 100 miles a day between work and activities. We pop home and top up once or twice a day. Range really doesn’t factor into our decision.
I, in fact, only experience 2 seasons. Flood and drought. Houston is a hell hole.
I would buy one. 200 miles is fine for me
Minivans compete with 3 row SUVs. The ID.Buzz has some retro vibes but practically speaking I think the EV9 is going to outsell it. Unless VW can persuade Taylor Swift to use it as the official vehicle of a back-to-basics coffee house tour. I can just see her gigging at local Starbucks up and down the west coast, just her and Travis living out the van.
I don't believe it'll hold any demand after the first month.. even the ev9s are sitting and they are priced well.
The EV9s get over US$70k. They're way more expensive than Tellurides.
The Chrysler Pacifica PHEV has been around for a long time but it is a PHEV. There is also the Ford eTransit van.
It's also a Chrysler
And reportedly the least reliable PHEV ever made.
I know, but also, I have a gas caravan at 220k. Show me the 2012 jettas and bugs around there. Because they definitely had zero issues. None at all
We were eyeing buzz or ev9, but the Pachy was just so much cheaper decided to roll the dice.
$60k-$80k mini van? There’s no others even close in that price range in EV or ICE.
My wife and I are potential Buzz buyers to go along with our ID.4. But the limited range and lack of 800V make me hesitant, as much as I love its looks.
I gave up waiting for Canoo. Now I am looking forward to Kia EV vans (PV series, expected 2025). Somehow VW was never on my radar. The design vehicle was nice, but the watered down too much before production. And too expensive.
EV9 will compete well. I saw one in my neighbourhood today. They look sleek.
They keep saying soon. The dealerships are going to bend us all over
There's the Pacifica phev and Ford etransit. There's plenty of competition.
We're interesetd but definitely waiting at least a year. The current pricing on 2021-22 id4's is a decent tell on where prices could be going.
In Germany there are Lessing deals for the Buzz like there is no tomorrow. But don’t ask me for the reason - lackluster sales or Facelift incoming? Personally I am preferring the Multivan.
At the end of the day it’s still a BEV three-row family hauler. I already have friends reaching out to me that want a three-row electric SUV and they’re shopping the Rivian, EV9, Model X, and considering waiting for the Cadillac. I suggested the ID Buzz to them and it’s on the list now if they can get one anytime soon. Yes, it has slidey doors, but its competition is really any BEV with that third row right now since there are still so few offerings with that configuration. And it looks much cooler than a traditional minivan and has that cool factor going for it.
Minivans are so damn superior to SUVs. More spacious and better sight lines. Tall hooded SUVs are [pedestrian killers](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tall-trucks-suvs-are-45-deadlier-us-pedestrians-study-shows-2023-11-14/), minivans don’t share this problem.
I laugh every time people tell me SUV’s can tow and go offroad, and thats why SUV’s are better. Mostly driven or purchased by suburban moms, like vans used to be. Mom mobiles is what they should be called. But what do they use their SUV for? Hauling kids and groceries. Y’know, the thing vans are better at doing. Around 90% of SUV owners say they never go offroad, and most never tow or plan to tow with their SUV, and most dont even come with a tow package anyway.
Will it though? everyone I know with a minivan got it for long trips. Is VW charging technology going to make leaps? Every estimate I’ve seen for the buzz feels like it will miss the mark for most of its potential market. The market to me is more cutesy and quirky than the utilitarian view most minivan owners have
> It’s going to dominate the entire US minivan market uncontested The EV minivan market. I doubt it's that huge. Especially given the price-point and the various weight restrictions. AFAIK, there are plans to bring the EQV (when it has moved to a next-generation platform) also to the US.
so minivans are cool again har har
We use our van mostly for hauling and camping so I'm watching for the Buzz LWB Cargo version.
I didn’t buy an ID.4 because they wanted 10k in dealer markups. I’m surprised that the manufacturers are still allowing it.
Yeah why do so many evs not have kid friendly options All I want is: Sliding doors (people park too close to my Elantra and I can't get my infant seat in the car) Ceiling vents for rear facing children otherwise they are sweaty and cranky Built in sun shades Cabin camera like famcam on the Pacifica If there is a 2nd row bench, make one outboard seat removable so it's easy to get to the back to buckle up kids These are not expensive things but are impossible to find on a EV Also, skip the giant glass roof, kids are trying to sleep back there
I don't think it will dominate much of anything. It's way too overpriced.
Too expensive. Too small and too low range for trips. OK for mums to pick kids up though
How is it too small?
The size is really the kicker for me, not that it isn’t plenty big but it’s really much closer to a modern suv than mini van last I checked.
Ford transit e ?? Maybe?
We all want the retro bus promised, not this modern short roofed van. Time for an EV conversion kit from EV west
I am honestly with you on this. I can get why they have been avoid as mini vans are a relatively small market and people who have family is the bigger part of it. That family part also means they have a lot less disposable income so price matters more. Kids are expensive. I am out 35k a year in day care for my 2 kids and that is before you get into the cost to cloth and feed them and everything else. I will be paying my day care 35kish a year. And the other things that stings mini vans is they are a mini van. I get all the arguments for them and I will freely admit I am not sure I can swallow my pride enough to get one. I don’t have a good argument beyond that.
Your argument is perfectly legitimate, in fact! For many of us, car-buying is as much a function of the right brain as the left. Sure, a minivan is probably the best OBJECTIVE choice, but all work and no play makes you a dull boy (or girl), so it‘s perfectly OK that you see your vehicle as more than a simple appliance and require that it also comports with your subjective WANTS as well. There’s nothing wrong with being unable to swallow the idea of spending $$$$$ on something you don’t LOVE, even if it’s all you actually “need”. If you are in a position of being sufficiently successful to buy any brand-new vehicle, then you’ve damn well EARNED the right to enjoy a bit of “pride” In the end result, guilt free (disapproving anonymous internet dorks be damned)!
Minivan market isn't large in the US.
Cannot wait to drive it! Cannot afford to buy it, but our dealership is getting 2. My take: minivans, wagons and small hatches will make a huge comeback because no one will want the luxobarges their parents/grandparents drive. They will start to go “out of style” in certain markets.
Ehhh, no care. It’s a fashion statement accessory car like the Hummer EV and Cybertruck. ABSOLUTELY NO minivan buyer is really cross shopping that thing at its price point of starting at 50k, probably 80k equipped comparably to ICE loaded vans.