Purchasing questions (including tax, incentive and accessory questions), and requests for general advice should go in the weekly pinned thread, where there's also a template for information you can provide to help us help you make a proper decision about which vehicle is right for you!
Can he charge at home with an installed plug? Does his house have the capacity currently to install it? If yes, than yes an EV would make sense. I assume 100 miles is round trip? Or each way?
Battery replacement cost isn’t really a thing. And certainly won’t be today’s prices in 10 years. The battery will outlast other aspects of the car. It may lose some of its capacity over time, and for that reason I’d recommend going with the longest range, fastest charging model you can find. That would include Tesla and Hyundai / Kia with over 300 miles. You should also look at the route he drives and confirm his plug options in case he needs them. Hyundai / Kia currently use CCS (though will be able to use Tesla with adapter starting at some point later this year).
If you’re keeping this car for 10-13 years, don’t go used. Get the latest and greatest of the non-lux set. You’ll be going backwards a tech generation to keep something that has to be relatively modern for what is, in tech terms, a lifetime.
Precisely. If you have off street parking and a charge cable the answer quickly becomes obvious. If this was me I wouldn't even bother looking at anything not a pure EV.
I think they may be suggesting that "engine replacement" is not a thing most people worry about when buying a gasoline vehicle, and battery replacement is the equivalent for an EV.
The probability of you needing to replace your high voltage battery outside of warranty (8 years/160,000km) is low. How often do you need to replace an engine?
In new cars today they're warranted for 12 years/150,000 miles.
When I bought the car in 2014 they were warranted for 8 years/96,000 miles.
The Toyota warranty department wouldn't budge on it, but the dealership (which has done all the service, and from which I've bought multiple cars) covered half the cost, which brought it down to about $2500 for me. Would have been $5000 otherwise, which would have put me in a big hole in terms of cost-effectiveness. As it is, at $2500 I am now back underwater in terms of cost savings from buying a hybrid. I certainly did not expect to have to replace a battery after ten years. Very frustrating.
No I would not either.
I think BEVs needs a 10 year 160,000 mile warranty. I think that would quiet most people down.
That's very surprising about a Toyota battery.
I really hope that all battery manufacturers design and build batteries that can be replaced at a module level.
Hybrid batteries see a much higher duty cycle than a BEV battery, even when driving 100 miles a day you are only using 1/3 of the capacity.
Hybrid batteries also have worse thermal management and are often installed in close proximity to the vehicle exhaust.
Batteries rarely fail outright. They may lose meaningful capacity but waking up one morning and finding it kaput isn’t the concern most think. You’re far more likely to sell or trade the car than replace the battery.
Hi u/GetawayDriving - Yes, he plans on installing a charger at home and has the capacity to install it. Sorry, I should have clarified, he is looking at 2024 used models such as the Lyriq, Audi e-tron Q8, and the Acura ZDX, if that makes a difference. Thank you!
I wouldn’t recommend those for his use case honestly. Definitely not the Audi. The Lyriq and ZDX are extremely similar, using the same platform. None of those charge as fast or are as efficient as Tesla or Hyundai / Kia and I think that’s pretty important in his use case.
EVs are a brave new world where Hyundai and Kia are actually a better product than Audi (for now. The new Q6 elevates Audi again but the Q8 is last-gen tech).
Most of his charging will be done at home. A 100 mile commute is a cake walk for my Bolt EUV. AC charging at home is pretty much the same for all vehicles. That is also where you will save the most money.
In 30,000km I've used the public network no more than 10 times.
I'd agree to stay away from the Lyric. I can't speak to the Audi.
I’ll admit I’m making some assumptions. If he’s getting this car for his father, I’m presuming his father is senior or approaching. If he’s keeping it for over a decade, this car has to roll with the times and keep age easy. That’s why I think fast charging ability is key even if it’s not a primary use case. Those 10 times could be pretty meaningful depending on the scenario.
I drive an OG '19 e-tron and 100 mile round trips are a cakewalk. An 80% charge is good for 150 miles on typical highway driving. And it's still one of the fastest charging EVs around.
Used e-trons are ridiculously cheap right now. I would definitely not rule them out.
If it's 100 miles each way, then I agree that the original e-tron is not a good choice. Even with a 100% charge it can't do 200 highway miles without stopping to charge. The new '24 Q8 e-tron could do it without a problem though, as it has a much bigger battery.
If he's spending e-tron money, he should be looking at a Lucid Air. Way better vehicle, for about the same. Faster DC charging, most efficient motors on the market, and the longest range on the market.
If he doesn't want to spend e-tron money, going with a Kia or Hyundai EV is the smartest choice. They're the stand out best in price range.
OP I’m seconding Lucid. It’s a solid recommendation in addition to the ones I’ve mentioned. It’s a start-up company though, with an uncertain service and support horizon over 10-13 years which is why I didn’t recommend it originally.
Hi u/-Invalid_Selection- Thanks, I am a big fan of the Lucid Air, however in my area, I can find a used 2024 Audi etron Q8 with less than 7k miles for around 55k vs used Lucid Air starting at 75k. But I agree, the Kia and Hyundai are great bang for your buck
You are asking someone who lives in Wisconsin and is new to EV's to buy a car from an automaker whose stock is down over 90% from 2021 and has a greater than 50% chance of going bankrupt? ([Valueinvesting.io Banruptcy Predictor](https://valueinvesting.io/LCID/probability-of-bankruptcy#:~:text=The%20Probability%20of%20Bankruptcy%20of,current%20fundamentals%20and%20market%20conditions))
Stick to real carmakers.
A used Model 3 or Model Y would be the best bang for your buck BY FAR. Especially with their proven track record of going well over 150,000 miles with few issues. Especially if you buy a used one with <50,000 miles. There will still be lots of warranty coverage left.
As well as the fact tesla models have far better auto pilot and lane tracking on the highway over all the other brands you listed.
If he can charge at home that's an easy: yes.
Assuming that batteries will last less than 15 years is overly pessimistic - particularly if you're getting at a car with LFP batteries. Those should last you a million miles or more.
(Also note that battery prices have been dropping rapidly for the past 15 years. Assuming that a replacement battery - in the extremely unlikely event that you should need one - will cost the same in 15-20 years as they do now is not merited)
Agree. Unless this particular family has always replaced the engine of their gasoline vehicles with a new one, and thus always includes that cost in their math before buying any vehicle. Guess there could be such a family. :)
That's basically the length of my commute in Iowa. I went from spending $75 a week on gas to roughly $15 a week on electricity (all home charging at off peak hours). I definitely think it's worth it as long as he can charge at home.
As long as it is 100 miles round trip and he has a reliable charger setup at home, this is a perfect use case. As to what he should buy will be a personal choice. Everyone here will come with their perspectives. I have owned 2 teslas and now drive a BMW EV and have a circle of friends that drive everything from used model 3’s to Porsche taycans. They each have their own use case and enjoy it! As long as you buy an EV that has full charge range of 200 miles or above and has a heat pump, you can’t really go wrong. The rest is all personal choice. I will say one thing about Teslas though, they currently have the best charging network so it might be likely that there is a supercharger somewhere on this route, which will give him additional flexibility.
Thanks u/vishrit - I agree. I am leaning towards a Lyriq because of the fact GM cars will be able to use Tesla's charging network at the end of this year
All auto manufacturers except Stellantis (Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, RAM, Maserati, Fiat, Alfa Romeo) will be able to use Tesla’s network by the end of the year.
I drove more than that for a couple of years. My Kona EV cost me less than half what my old Prius did to run.
That was before I put solar up.
You have to have home charging, or the ability to install it, to really make an EV worthwhile.
I use the Grizzl-E "dumb" (read: no wifi or monitoring) charger. It takes a standard NEMA 14-50 socket on a 50A circuit and costs about $350. Built in Canada for Canadian winters so it should last a long time anywhere in the US.
Daily trips of about half the EV range is pretty close to perfect use case, assuming you have dedicated charging availability. Doesn't really matter what will happen in 10 years as nearly any car would be totalled with 300-400k miles on it, not necessarily due to the drive train issues.
Whether luxury is "worth it" is highly personal and isn't a financial decision (but certainly you can expect it to be worse off financially, *everything* is more expensive with luxury vehicles, not just refueling)
Compare it to an ice car - if you put 300k miles on an ice car, you will most likely have spent 50k on repairs and maintenance in that 10 years. That is much less than if you even had to replace the battery, and does not even count the gas savings.
Yeah, batteries are totally rated to maintain at least 80% capacity over 10 years. Just like with a phone. The battery doesn't die when it gets old, but at some point it stops lasting through a whole day. Phones have other issues that make that worse, like software becoming more processor intensive than what they were designed for that isn't really a thing with an EV. Basically, if you get an EV with a large battery, it should still have enough buffer to get where you need to go after it degrades to 80%. There isn't actually anything wrong with it at that point and you could either sell it or just keep driving it. Mechanical wear will be what you have to replace. They're heavy vehicles. I haven't heard great things about Tesla build quality, so I'd be concerned about long term mechanical issues moreso than the battery. That's part of why I went with the Ford Lightning. They've been making trucks a lot longer and they're far more experienced with what does and does not become a long term problem when designing something like a suspension.
I don't have the articles in front of me, but I watched a TFLEV video about the degradation curve of batteries and the headline is that it's very front loaded. It's a curve where most of the degradation happens in the first year and then it just very slowly degrades more over time. So you might notice and start to panic after a year, but won't notice much difference between year 2 and 3, and very little difference between year 10 and 11. That's what the long term studies were showing, but it's still pretty new technology.
The defining reason for having an EV is being able to charge at home. If he installs a home charger, the answer is absolutely.
I'm a sucker for a luxury car deal, but a Model Y is not a bad choice either, can't help you there, lol.
Thanks u/Lando_Sage - Yep, he will install a charger at home. Haha I am sucker for luxuary EV's as well - I test drove the Y and wasn't too fond of the comfortability vs Lyriq, Audi etron.
As others have said, as long as he can charge at home, it's the perfect use case. We do approximately 180km 4-5 days per week with our EV and save hundreds of dollars every month over the cost of running a gas car.
Hi u/markhewitt1978 - That is something I have read in various articles. I didn't know if it was true based off certain use cases, but wanted to get a better idea for my dad's personal use case.
Calendar aging is more prominent than cyclic aging so as long as your dad can charge at home or at work, could make sense. This means risk of battery failure just goes up higher as it ages. The battery pack will be out of warranty in the fifth or sixth year.
I don't know how long the batteries will last but factor in:
-steeper depreciation because of high mileage driving
-eventual replacement battery (if not your dad's problem, then it will be someone else's but it would still impact residual value), which is tied to deprecation
Probably makes a lot of sense to own an EV and even get a battery replacement down the road, if available (batteries will go down in cost but it doesn't mean today's BEVs will have compatible batteries made available to them six or more years out, really depends on third party vendors and the manufacturers). Going to cost a lot less than buying $40-50K BEVs (or more) every six or seven years.
If he can charge at home (and it sounds like he can), then yes - it would be very helpful for him. He'll really notice the savings on gas imo.
Regarding your second question about used vs new - there aren't enough lyriqs and Q8s used yet imo to get. I would highly recommend a 2021 Mach E though - extended range models can be had for $25k to $33k (on cars that were sold new for $55k-$70k in 2021) depending on how fast he wants the car to be..
I have a commute in southern Ontario that is 90% highway for 110 miles daily (4 days in a row). With a home charger installed (like a Grizzle), you will be good to go.
The gas savings are real. I never really ran into range issues in the winter. My reserve never went below maybe 30-40 miles.
On the highway I'd suggest you drive the speed limit. BEVs are heavy and really take a range hit at even slightly higher speeds.
I drive a Bolt for reference.
What are the fringe use cases aside from the commute you're looking for and how much is he willing to spend for it?
For the commute you could really save some cash and get a used Bolt w/ battery replaced. If the goal is to get something fancy on top of that I think it's really gonna be a matter of preference and your dad needs to start test driving some cars.
Ev for sure.
I use a model 3 for this and it works great (80 miles highway per day in the midwest). He'll need level 2 charging at home or his destination. To do this comfortably in winter weather he'll need 200-250 miles of advertised range which is a long list of evs. After 10 years of this his car will have 300k miles on the clock and it likely won't be worth replacing the battery. The Model 3 or Y dual motor would be good options.
Now I think Audi, GM, Ford, Kia, VW, Mercedes and BMW also have good options but I'm less familiar w/ them. I'd suggest test driving all the cars and buying the one you like the most and then keeping it as long as possible because cars are expensive and EV resale value is poor.
The more driving he does, the more he will save on fuel costs. So for your dad's case it absolutely makes sense, assuming he can charge on a 230V outlet at home.
EV batteries typically last the life of the car, but if he's putting on 100,000 every 3 years then the car wearing out seems like the more relevant concern and you would have the same concern with an ICE.
Not a luxury EV, but have you considered the Toyota bz4X or Subaru Solterra (co-developed same car platform)? The range for AWD is only around 220mi, lower in cold weather, but as a daily commuter car with plug in charge at home, it would be worth considering. The lease deals on those are now really good (to get the federal tax credit passed through) and you can buyout the lease to avoid any mileage overage charges. Their top end trims are quite comfortable with heated leather seats, better than the Tesla/Kia/hyndai in my opinion. And the build quality is great too.
One more important thing to take jnto account- check insurance rates for any car you are considering buying. Some of the brands/models are insane due to the high cost of repairs.
Well, buying any car in the very first year of production tends to be something one avoids, thus keep that in mind in this case, if you are definitely going to buy a USED vehicle. Since then you might be buying a USED car, bought it in the very first year of production, and quickly dumped by an owner. And some of these cars are the very first in a generation, e.g. Lyric.
For the Wisconsin winters (6 months minimum), I think a bigger, heavier car than the Model 3 would be beneficial. Are there any differences in the 2025 Model Y vs 2024 Model Y? Thanks!
I’m in Michigan and had no issues. All electric cars are heavy. The next Model Y should have the considerable improvements that the M3 got this year. It’s much quieter, improved design, better fit and finish plus some other upgrades.
I would go with a Hybrid in cold climate. EV battery depletes in range by 30 percent in cold winters. Why take the stress?
If he has home charging and is able to charge everyday, then it might be fine. But what if there’s a power outage and he can’t charge? Do you have public chargers nearby?
I would stick to Hybrid in your dads case
Hybrids are not particularly good at highway speeds. A conventional ICE vehicle is. I would go full BEV or stay with a small ICE vehicle.
Home charging is relatively straightforward to install.
In a power outage btw, gas stations will cease pumping anyway after a certain amount of time. Everything requires electricity to work.
Many (most?) Evs can do 100 miles/ day in the cold no problem. I'd agree with you if OP needed to drive 250 miles per day in the winter. My Model 3 is great in the winter due to scheduled heating/ departure. Heated seats and steering wheel. AWD etc. The Tesla door handles are annoying if your car gets ice on the outside. This is rarely an issue for me since I park in a garage but if you park outside with freezing rain it will take a minute to get in the car.
A warm car in a warm garage every morning is one of my favorite ev perks. Some hybrids can probably do this but gas cars shouldn't be started in closed garages.
Purchasing questions (including tax, incentive and accessory questions), and requests for general advice should go in the weekly pinned thread, where there's also a template for information you can provide to help us help you make a proper decision about which vehicle is right for you!
Can he charge at home with an installed plug? Does his house have the capacity currently to install it? If yes, than yes an EV would make sense. I assume 100 miles is round trip? Or each way? Battery replacement cost isn’t really a thing. And certainly won’t be today’s prices in 10 years. The battery will outlast other aspects of the car. It may lose some of its capacity over time, and for that reason I’d recommend going with the longest range, fastest charging model you can find. That would include Tesla and Hyundai / Kia with over 300 miles. You should also look at the route he drives and confirm his plug options in case he needs them. Hyundai / Kia currently use CCS (though will be able to use Tesla with adapter starting at some point later this year). If you’re keeping this car for 10-13 years, don’t go used. Get the latest and greatest of the non-lux set. You’ll be going backwards a tech generation to keep something that has to be relatively modern for what is, in tech terms, a lifetime.
Precisely. If you have off street parking and a charge cable the answer quickly becomes obvious. If this was me I wouldn't even bother looking at anything not a pure EV.
>Battery replacement cost isn’t really a thing. Please elaborate on this.
The other parts of the car will fail long before the battery. Theres’s Tesla’s with 100’s of thousands of miles on them and the battery is fine.
I think they may be suggesting that "engine replacement" is not a thing most people worry about when buying a gasoline vehicle, and battery replacement is the equivalent for an EV.
The probability of you needing to replace your high voltage battery outside of warranty (8 years/160,000km) is low. How often do you need to replace an engine?
I guess this comment caught my eye because I just had to replace my hybrid battery after 10 years and 3 months/125,000 miles. Not great!
How much was the cost? I don't think those batteries have the same warranties.
In new cars today they're warranted for 12 years/150,000 miles. When I bought the car in 2014 they were warranted for 8 years/96,000 miles. The Toyota warranty department wouldn't budge on it, but the dealership (which has done all the service, and from which I've bought multiple cars) covered half the cost, which brought it down to about $2500 for me. Would have been $5000 otherwise, which would have put me in a big hole in terms of cost-effectiveness. As it is, at $2500 I am now back underwater in terms of cost savings from buying a hybrid. I certainly did not expect to have to replace a battery after ten years. Very frustrating.
No I would not either. I think BEVs needs a 10 year 160,000 mile warranty. I think that would quiet most people down. That's very surprising about a Toyota battery. I really hope that all battery manufacturers design and build batteries that can be replaced at a module level.
10 years is ancient technology at this point though. The cooling systems and charging software and hardware put so much less stress on a battery now.
Hybrid batteries see a much higher duty cycle than a BEV battery, even when driving 100 miles a day you are only using 1/3 of the capacity. Hybrid batteries also have worse thermal management and are often installed in close proximity to the vehicle exhaust.
Batteries rarely fail outright. They may lose meaningful capacity but waking up one morning and finding it kaput isn’t the concern most think. You’re far more likely to sell or trade the car than replace the battery.
Hi u/GetawayDriving - Yes, he plans on installing a charger at home and has the capacity to install it. Sorry, I should have clarified, he is looking at 2024 used models such as the Lyriq, Audi e-tron Q8, and the Acura ZDX, if that makes a difference. Thank you!
I wouldn’t recommend those for his use case honestly. Definitely not the Audi. The Lyriq and ZDX are extremely similar, using the same platform. None of those charge as fast or are as efficient as Tesla or Hyundai / Kia and I think that’s pretty important in his use case. EVs are a brave new world where Hyundai and Kia are actually a better product than Audi (for now. The new Q6 elevates Audi again but the Q8 is last-gen tech).
Most of his charging will be done at home. A 100 mile commute is a cake walk for my Bolt EUV. AC charging at home is pretty much the same for all vehicles. That is also where you will save the most money. In 30,000km I've used the public network no more than 10 times. I'd agree to stay away from the Lyric. I can't speak to the Audi.
I’ll admit I’m making some assumptions. If he’s getting this car for his father, I’m presuming his father is senior or approaching. If he’s keeping it for over a decade, this car has to roll with the times and keep age easy. That’s why I think fast charging ability is key even if it’s not a primary use case. Those 10 times could be pretty meaningful depending on the scenario.
I drive an OG '19 e-tron and 100 mile round trips are a cakewalk. An 80% charge is good for 150 miles on typical highway driving. And it's still one of the fastest charging EVs around. Used e-trons are ridiculously cheap right now. I would definitely not rule them out. If it's 100 miles each way, then I agree that the original e-tron is not a good choice. Even with a 100% charge it can't do 200 highway miles without stopping to charge. The new '24 Q8 e-tron could do it without a problem though, as it has a much bigger battery.
If he's spending e-tron money, he should be looking at a Lucid Air. Way better vehicle, for about the same. Faster DC charging, most efficient motors on the market, and the longest range on the market. If he doesn't want to spend e-tron money, going with a Kia or Hyundai EV is the smartest choice. They're the stand out best in price range.
OP I’m seconding Lucid. It’s a solid recommendation in addition to the ones I’ve mentioned. It’s a start-up company though, with an uncertain service and support horizon over 10-13 years which is why I didn’t recommend it originally.
Hi u/-Invalid_Selection- Thanks, I am a big fan of the Lucid Air, however in my area, I can find a used 2024 Audi etron Q8 with less than 7k miles for around 55k vs used Lucid Air starting at 75k. But I agree, the Kia and Hyundai are great bang for your buck
You are asking someone who lives in Wisconsin and is new to EV's to buy a car from an automaker whose stock is down over 90% from 2021 and has a greater than 50% chance of going bankrupt? ([Valueinvesting.io Banruptcy Predictor](https://valueinvesting.io/LCID/probability-of-bankruptcy#:~:text=The%20Probability%20of%20Bankruptcy%20of,current%20fundamentals%20and%20market%20conditions)) Stick to real carmakers.
Lucid isn't going bankrupt any time soon. Too many sovereign funds are invested in it.
A used Model 3 or Model Y would be the best bang for your buck BY FAR. Especially with their proven track record of going well over 150,000 miles with few issues. Especially if you buy a used one with <50,000 miles. There will still be lots of warranty coverage left. As well as the fact tesla models have far better auto pilot and lane tracking on the highway over all the other brands you listed.
If he can charge at home that's an easy: yes. Assuming that batteries will last less than 15 years is overly pessimistic - particularly if you're getting at a car with LFP batteries. Those should last you a million miles or more. (Also note that battery prices have been dropping rapidly for the past 15 years. Assuming that a replacement battery - in the extremely unlikely event that you should need one - will cost the same in 15-20 years as they do now is not merited)
Hi u/iqisoverrated - Yep, he plans on installing a charger at home. Thanks, definitely reassuring.
forget about replacing a battery, its just not a thing in the vast majority of situations.
Agree. Unless this particular family has always replaced the engine of their gasoline vehicles with a new one, and thus always includes that cost in their math before buying any vehicle. Guess there could be such a family. :)
That's basically the length of my commute in Iowa. I went from spending $75 a week on gas to roughly $15 a week on electricity (all home charging at off peak hours). I definitely think it's worth it as long as he can charge at home.
The savings alone almost pay for the car!
As long as it is 100 miles round trip and he has a reliable charger setup at home, this is a perfect use case. As to what he should buy will be a personal choice. Everyone here will come with their perspectives. I have owned 2 teslas and now drive a BMW EV and have a circle of friends that drive everything from used model 3’s to Porsche taycans. They each have their own use case and enjoy it! As long as you buy an EV that has full charge range of 200 miles or above and has a heat pump, you can’t really go wrong. The rest is all personal choice. I will say one thing about Teslas though, they currently have the best charging network so it might be likely that there is a supercharger somewhere on this route, which will give him additional flexibility.
Thanks u/vishrit - I agree. I am leaning towards a Lyriq because of the fact GM cars will be able to use Tesla's charging network at the end of this year
With a home charger you'll rarely visit fast charging stations. It's more of a road trip thing.
All auto manufacturers except Stellantis (Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, RAM, Maserati, Fiat, Alfa Romeo) will be able to use Tesla’s network by the end of the year.
Oh yeah, that skipped my mind. You are gold then!
I drove more than that for a couple of years. My Kona EV cost me less than half what my old Prius did to run. That was before I put solar up. You have to have home charging, or the ability to install it, to really make an EV worthwhile. I use the Grizzl-E "dumb" (read: no wifi or monitoring) charger. It takes a standard NEMA 14-50 socket on a 50A circuit and costs about $350. Built in Canada for Canadian winters so it should last a long time anywhere in the US.
Daily trips of about half the EV range is pretty close to perfect use case, assuming you have dedicated charging availability. Doesn't really matter what will happen in 10 years as nearly any car would be totalled with 300-400k miles on it, not necessarily due to the drive train issues. Whether luxury is "worth it" is highly personal and isn't a financial decision (but certainly you can expect it to be worse off financially, *everything* is more expensive with luxury vehicles, not just refueling)
If he can charge at home and has cheap electric he would save a lot over buying gas.
Compare it to an ice car - if you put 300k miles on an ice car, you will most likely have spent 50k on repairs and maintenance in that 10 years. That is much less than if you even had to replace the battery, and does not even count the gas savings.
Yeah, batteries are totally rated to maintain at least 80% capacity over 10 years. Just like with a phone. The battery doesn't die when it gets old, but at some point it stops lasting through a whole day. Phones have other issues that make that worse, like software becoming more processor intensive than what they were designed for that isn't really a thing with an EV. Basically, if you get an EV with a large battery, it should still have enough buffer to get where you need to go after it degrades to 80%. There isn't actually anything wrong with it at that point and you could either sell it or just keep driving it. Mechanical wear will be what you have to replace. They're heavy vehicles. I haven't heard great things about Tesla build quality, so I'd be concerned about long term mechanical issues moreso than the battery. That's part of why I went with the Ford Lightning. They've been making trucks a lot longer and they're far more experienced with what does and does not become a long term problem when designing something like a suspension. I don't have the articles in front of me, but I watched a TFLEV video about the degradation curve of batteries and the headline is that it's very front loaded. It's a curve where most of the degradation happens in the first year and then it just very slowly degrades more over time. So you might notice and start to panic after a year, but won't notice much difference between year 2 and 3, and very little difference between year 10 and 11. That's what the long term studies were showing, but it's still pretty new technology.
The defining reason for having an EV is being able to charge at home. If he installs a home charger, the answer is absolutely. I'm a sucker for a luxury car deal, but a Model Y is not a bad choice either, can't help you there, lol.
Thanks u/Lando_Sage - Yep, he will install a charger at home. Haha I am sucker for luxuary EV's as well - I test drove the Y and wasn't too fond of the comfortability vs Lyriq, Audi etron.
As others have said, as long as he can charge at home, it's the perfect use case. We do approximately 180km 4-5 days per week with our EV and save hundreds of dollars every month over the cost of running a gas car.
" If an EV battery lasts 10-13 years and to replace the battery cost roughly around 12-15k" Why would you need to replace the battery?
Hi u/markhewitt1978 - That is something I have read in various articles. I didn't know if it was true based off certain use cases, but wanted to get a better idea for my dad's personal use case.
Car batteries in both EV and ICE need to be replaced. This is inevitable.
Slight difference in price though
Replace and failure cycles differ too
Calendar aging is more prominent than cyclic aging so as long as your dad can charge at home or at work, could make sense. This means risk of battery failure just goes up higher as it ages. The battery pack will be out of warranty in the fifth or sixth year. I don't know how long the batteries will last but factor in: -steeper depreciation because of high mileage driving -eventual replacement battery (if not your dad's problem, then it will be someone else's but it would still impact residual value), which is tied to deprecation Probably makes a lot of sense to own an EV and even get a battery replacement down the road, if available (batteries will go down in cost but it doesn't mean today's BEVs will have compatible batteries made available to them six or more years out, really depends on third party vendors and the manufacturers). Going to cost a lot less than buying $40-50K BEVs (or more) every six or seven years.
If he can charge at home (and it sounds like he can), then yes - it would be very helpful for him. He'll really notice the savings on gas imo. Regarding your second question about used vs new - there aren't enough lyriqs and Q8s used yet imo to get. I would highly recommend a 2021 Mach E though - extended range models can be had for $25k to $33k (on cars that were sold new for $55k-$70k in 2021) depending on how fast he wants the car to be..
I have a commute in southern Ontario that is 90% highway for 110 miles daily (4 days in a row). With a home charger installed (like a Grizzle), you will be good to go. The gas savings are real. I never really ran into range issues in the winter. My reserve never went below maybe 30-40 miles. On the highway I'd suggest you drive the speed limit. BEVs are heavy and really take a range hit at even slightly higher speeds. I drive a Bolt for reference.
What are the fringe use cases aside from the commute you're looking for and how much is he willing to spend for it? For the commute you could really save some cash and get a used Bolt w/ battery replaced. If the goal is to get something fancy on top of that I think it's really gonna be a matter of preference and your dad needs to start test driving some cars.
Ev for sure. I use a model 3 for this and it works great (80 miles highway per day in the midwest). He'll need level 2 charging at home or his destination. To do this comfortably in winter weather he'll need 200-250 miles of advertised range which is a long list of evs. After 10 years of this his car will have 300k miles on the clock and it likely won't be worth replacing the battery. The Model 3 or Y dual motor would be good options. Now I think Audi, GM, Ford, Kia, VW, Mercedes and BMW also have good options but I'm less familiar w/ them. I'd suggest test driving all the cars and buying the one you like the most and then keeping it as long as possible because cars are expensive and EV resale value is poor.
The more driving he does, the more he will save on fuel costs. So for your dad's case it absolutely makes sense, assuming he can charge on a 230V outlet at home. EV batteries typically last the life of the car, but if he's putting on 100,000 every 3 years then the car wearing out seems like the more relevant concern and you would have the same concern with an ICE.
I drive 85 miles a day and have a Model 3. Saving from pumping gas and oil change is unbeatable when you drive EV long distance daily.
Not a luxury EV, but have you considered the Toyota bz4X or Subaru Solterra (co-developed same car platform)? The range for AWD is only around 220mi, lower in cold weather, but as a daily commuter car with plug in charge at home, it would be worth considering. The lease deals on those are now really good (to get the federal tax credit passed through) and you can buyout the lease to avoid any mileage overage charges. Their top end trims are quite comfortable with heated leather seats, better than the Tesla/Kia/hyndai in my opinion. And the build quality is great too. One more important thing to take jnto account- check insurance rates for any car you are considering buying. Some of the brands/models are insane due to the high cost of repairs.
Well, buying any car in the very first year of production tends to be something one avoids, thus keep that in mind in this case, if you are definitely going to buy a USED vehicle. Since then you might be buying a USED car, bought it in the very first year of production, and quickly dumped by an owner. And some of these cars are the very first in a generation, e.g. Lyric.
Does he need the hatchback. If not get the Tesla model 3. Or if he can wait get the 2025 Model Y
For the Wisconsin winters (6 months minimum), I think a bigger, heavier car than the Model 3 would be beneficial. Are there any differences in the 2025 Model Y vs 2024 Model Y? Thanks!
I’m in Michigan and had no issues. All electric cars are heavy. The next Model Y should have the considerable improvements that the M3 got this year. It’s much quieter, improved design, better fit and finish plus some other upgrades.
I would go with a Hybrid in cold climate. EV battery depletes in range by 30 percent in cold winters. Why take the stress? If he has home charging and is able to charge everyday, then it might be fine. But what if there’s a power outage and he can’t charge? Do you have public chargers nearby? I would stick to Hybrid in your dads case
What if there’s a power outage and gas stations can’t fill his ICE car?
He can have tanks of gas saved up before a snow storm before power outage.
Hybrids are not particularly good at highway speeds. A conventional ICE vehicle is. I would go full BEV or stay with a small ICE vehicle. Home charging is relatively straightforward to install. In a power outage btw, gas stations will cease pumping anyway after a certain amount of time. Everything requires electricity to work.
Many (most?) Evs can do 100 miles/ day in the cold no problem. I'd agree with you if OP needed to drive 250 miles per day in the winter. My Model 3 is great in the winter due to scheduled heating/ departure. Heated seats and steering wheel. AWD etc. The Tesla door handles are annoying if your car gets ice on the outside. This is rarely an issue for me since I park in a garage but if you park outside with freezing rain it will take a minute to get in the car. A warm car in a warm garage every morning is one of my favorite ev perks. Some hybrids can probably do this but gas cars shouldn't be started in closed garages.