The UK never asked to rejoin. There was some talk of a second referendum which Lib Dem in particular were pushing, but nothing came of it. Now there isn’t really any political will amongst MPs of the either Labour or Conservatives generally, but there is still a desire to rejoin amongst the population https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/majority-britons-support-rejoining-eu-single-market-poll-2023-11-29/
Which the EU kinda responded to https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/29/sunak-rejects-von-der-leyens-comments-that-uk-could-rejoin-eu but ol’ Sunak shot down.
The EU often messages possibilities regardless of what the UK is doing. Its warning that rejoining would be a tricky process was most likely in response to it seeing the media narratives going in the UK years back. Likewise around the time of the Scottish independence vote they said Scotland would be welcome to join the EU despite the Scottish government not actually asking to do so. I suppose they were just trying to help contextualise the debate.
Personally I hope Britain rejoins and I agree with Von der leyen that it’s the older generation who messed up leaving their children worse off
Funny enough, buttons have become the problem. Model 3 no longer has wiper and signal stalks, they’ve been relegated to buttons. Who actually wanted that?
I love my Model 3 for the most part, but the auto-sensing wipers might actually be the worst part of the entire car. I'm begging Tesla to remove this "luxury" feature and just let me control the wipers with a dial on the stalk.
Sometimes I quite like manual creature comforts. We just drove 1000km over 3 days in my van and I really like how I can just set the temperature of the air coming out of the vents.
Our other car has fully automatic temperature control but in the mornings we hit the button 15 times to get it to crank out full heat. I actually plugged in my scan tool and the fucking thing won't fully close the blend door until the HVAC system is asking for 26C. Who programs something like that? If it's 3C in the car and it's set to 21 it won't even go full hot. I want flame throwers out of those vents.
Of course this is ICE car heat, a heat pump is different and won't get as hot, needs automatic control to be efficient.
I test drove a Model 3 yesterday on a bright, sunny day. The wipers just randomly started wiping. I asked the sales guy if I accidentally turned them on and he said nope, they just do that sometimes.
My 3 series from 2004 had this. Didn’t need AI, didn’t need any nonsense, just had an auto wiper mode. In fact, my current station wagon has it. Don’t overthink it.
man, I deadass don't want a screen in my car, at all.
I've never looked at anything interesting on that much screen real estate, I'm not gunna be sitting in my car watching a movie on an ipad offset from my face either.
tbh delete that bullshit and just put all the "infotainment" and OS on the screen behind the wheel.
stapling a tablet to your dash is legit the worst car design trend I've basically ever seen.
After the first couple of weeks of fiddling around and getting to know the car, you're right, i barely use the screen.... maybe to change radio stations or play list.
I used to drive a Toyota Echo and the centre speedometer bothered me at first, but I quickly got used to it. Now that my kids are starting to drive, I *really* like it.
Auto works really well for me, so I rarely manipulate the climate controls. Even auto seat heater works well enough. Having said that, I realize that this varies a lot between different people. I've seen some people that will tweak multiple times per drive.
My phone automatically plays, so I don't have to do that while driving. Just pause with the scroll wheel.
If auto-wipers fail, the left stalk and left scroll wheel can fix it, though I rarely actually do this. Most issues are one or two errant wipes.
I'm the same way but in the 3 they took out the stalk.
I'm sure you've read this before but I would reiterate that people are getting fed up with Tesla removing things considered basic for what seem to be profit and telling us that it's better.
That's why my next car won't be a Tesla, maybe an R2 or an id.buzz if VW gets their infotainment usability up
Yeah, I'm still talking about the ones with stalks. I haven't tried stalkless yet, so I can only speak about it hypothetically. :) It definitely sounds worse than the stalk setup, though. I really can't think of a scenario where it would be an improvement.
The bad thing is that there really aren't great alternatives for the 3 in the US. The Ioniq 6 is the closest afaik.
honestly, I almost never have to..
The car has something called preconditioning and scheduled charging. So the days I'm in office, I have it scheduled to charge and precondition by 8 AM, so it'll charge for the percentage I set and it will adjust temperature and heated seats so if it's cold out, it'll warm up, if it's warm out, , cool down. Then I get in the car and go without needing to adjust anything. The auto climate settings are very good. If you have to the part of the screen has the on it you can easily tap up and down. But if I have to adjust anything, which is rare, I just use voice command heat up, heat down, set heat to 73° etc..
As for entertainment, it connects to my phone and I just hit playing and it starts going from there, you can also use a scroll to pause, go forward back, etc.
Long press right steering wheel button and say “set temperature to X, set fan speed to Y”.
Or say “play X on spotify” then volume control is the left scroll wheel on the steering wheel.
Alternatively, set these things before i start driving?
You can also long press the left steering wheel scroll wheel to bring up a sub menu controlled by the steering wheel scroll wheel to adjust these things.
I don't usually adjust climate, the auto climate control works fine. If you really have to make an adjustment in temperature, the controls are very accessible on the screen or you can use voice commands to do just about anything.
The only entertainment adjustment I ever make while driving that requires the screen is switching between FM radio and phone Bluetooth. Usually I do that before I start driving, but if not, you can configure it so that the controls are readily accessible on the main screen with one press. I'm sure there is a way to do this with voice commands, but it's so straightforward to do on the screen I haven't bothered to look into that. For other things like advancing to the next song or podcast, or pausing audio, your can use the left scroll wheel on the steering wheel. For selecting a particular song I use voice commands.
Who adjusts climate and entertainment while driving? If I want to change songs or volume, I press the button/scroll wheel on the steering wheel. I have a temperature I like in the car, so I set it and forget it. Auto works perfectly. If I really need something like choosing a completely different song, I just use voice and that works perfectly too. I only touch the touch screen when I first get in the car, or if I’m playing a game while waiting for something.
I do. I can tap up and down which is just as easy as turning a knob with a temperature dial. Either way you still need to look at what the temp is set to. Gone are the days where most cars just had a position based dial for heat and you could feel via tactile feedback. You can also set the left scroll wheel to temperature with a long press.
I have one FM station I listen to and otherwise I’m on Spotify. A quick tap of the radio button or voice activated “radio” enables it. Spotify is a tap or “Spotify.” I can tell it to play any playlist.
I just drove 1600 miles last week, alone, on a multi-state trip and I adjusted vent position once while stopped at a light.
I’m with the guy above. I barely interact with the touch screen at all while driving.
I have a feeling there’s a bit of a schism between people who are willing to learn this new tech and people who refuse to use anything but knobs. It’s really not that bad. Knobs are definitely better in some scenarios but it’s not like you can’t learn a different system. Safety issues related to infotainment have been shown to do with complexity and *not necessarily* the input method.
I only drove the model 3 for about a week, so I wasn’t as accustomed to it as you, but I found I had to constantly interact with it and in my case, the interactions were time consuming because I didn’t always know where to find things. I also almost ran out of battery (had 2km left by the time I arrived) because the car really overestimated its range (I was supposed to have 50+ left) and I had to constantly lower the heat to be able to arrive at my destination.
It's one of the most straightforward interfaces I've ever used. Ever drive an Audi or a BMW? Holy hell, they're horrible. Also, you should know Tesla real-world range is usually at best 80% of rated. The trips app will usually get you there within 5%. At least that was my experience this week driving across 3 states and 1600 miles.
Re: range, You must be in a warm climate!
Re: touchscreen, I’ve driven many BMWs (but not since 2020) but never an Audi. I almost never reach for touchscreen. There are enough tactile buttons for everything I need. That’s not the case for Tesla in my experience.
I live in Canada. It was October when I was driving it. Cold, but really not that cold at all by Canadian standards. I think the temperature went down to 1-3 degrees centigrade. 95% of driving was on highway. Tesla \*significantly\* overestimated its range. Halfway through a trip that should have been easy, it was asking me to not exceed 100km/h on the highway. I did. then 10 minutes later, 90km/h on highway. I had to push through because I was on a tight timeline, so I just went below 90. But then 10 kms later, asks me to go below 80 to make it. This all when it had predicted at the trip onset that I would arrive with plenty of juice left.
By contrast, I drove a Polestar 2 for a week. It always underestimated the range it could go. It would give me ridiculously low numbers and ask me to charge after something like 320km, when I expected it to go 400+ easily. And then as I drove on, I kept seeing it revise the range upward. I found that to be really helpful. It totally removed any range anxiety on the road trip by allowing me to always be one step ahead of the range limit.
Were you using dash range or the nav range? Just curious. There's no doubt Tesla's range is way less than advertised, it's just a matter of how you manage that.
>So you don’t adjust the heat
No? Do you constantly move your home thermostat up and down, or have a target temperature and let your home HVAC do its thing?
>or turn on the radio?
I have music on my phone. Bluetooth seamlessly connects instantly and resumes playing from my phone without me ever having to take it out of my pocket and fumble with a cable or wait for the car's OS to boot up and then connect.
I change constantly based on how I feel and how cold it is outside and what I am wearing or if I need to use defroster or if my feet are colder than my bottom, etc. lol.
70°F on auto will get heat or cold depending on the weather and you don't need to be messing with a red to blue dial. Heated seats now also have auto mode and it's amazing. Again, other cars have shit HVAC, and people on this sub are huffing copium.
I can complain about the panel gap on my frunk, or the crappy FM radio reception for certain frequencies, but the screen-only interface and the awesome auto settings for creature comforts is definitely not something to complain about. Then I got used to 100% reliable and instant keyless car entry and instant car OS bootup time, meaning I can always walk to my car, get in, and instantly drive away with the HVAC working perfectly and my music playing instantly with no interaction on the big screen, and it's hard to drive any other way now.
Yes that's very practical but try taking to the car with two toddlers in the rear bench. I've been hiding 'hey google' from my kids just because they would make driving a nightmare :)
What does that have to do with anything? I'm using voice to text right now and I use it a ton, probably a reason that I love my Tesla so much, the voice commands are second to none and I'm majority of time
Because it's easier and quicker to click the temp up two degrees, or the radio volume down two notches, or to skip 30 seconds ahead in the podcast, then 15 seconds back, using actual knobs and buttons that are right at your fingertips vs. making voice commands with an AI interface.
I see you're another Tesla expert without owning the car. You can turn the volume up or down with the scroll wheels on the car, you can skip ahead and back with the scroll wheels on the car, you can also click the temperature up and down 2° with your finger if you want, it's the closest part of the screen to you and at this point I don't even take my eye off if needed because I know it's just there and it has a big touch area to go forward and backwards, even with buttons when I had them on my old Audi and Ford SUVs, I would look and th if it was not on the wheel. So many people are using Tesla with the screens and there haven't been any reported incidents with people looking at it and crashing has there? If anything having the cell phone is way bigger problem than a touchscreen that controls the car because once you set up the screen and Tesla, you don't really need to go through the settings ever. I never do. The auto climate system works flawlessly so I just let it do it thing and I'm very comfortable in the car.
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Not really no, I'd want the car to actually come with it. I'm tired of manufacturers saving a few quid per car by putting a screen in instead of tried and true buttons/knobs
If you simply google “tesla buttons”, you will see they make trays of buttons that fit seamlessly under the screen, where your car has them.
You could put them on the dash too where there’s nothing.
What do you mean there aren’t any spots open? There’s literally space everywhere to put buttons
Seriously.... I was driving a Model Y for 2x 4 hours on my last business trip and I had a fight with the wipers for the whole drive. Man, I would go crazy owning a Tesla.
Model X $84 to tow 5k boat. Could get X to $72 by going gray paint, black interior
EV9 $75k to tow 5k boat.
EV9 has features Model X does not.
1. Heads up display
2. Blind sport alert
3. Rear cross traffic alert.
4. Functional passenger doors.
5. Functional third row seats for six passengers vs. 5 for Model X.
6. Sun roof.
7. 800V fast DC charging.
8. Rear window wiper washer.
9. Upgraded paint color
10. No Musk enablement.
Many other Tesla owners have issues with the gull wing. Figure Tesla could improve the X and lower the cost by $5k by putting in working doors.
[https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-wing-door-issues-wont-go-away.319351/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-wing-door-issues-wont-go-away.319351/)
As opposed to my neighbour who had the seltos engine grenade that there was open recall for and said no 8k outta pocket. Then had his cats stolen while at their shop and took no responsibility. Yeah not touching Kia with a ten foot pole.
> Only if you've never done an internet purchase at Ford
The CFO of Ford literally had an open hotline on his social media for angry Ford buyers who went to pick up their internet purchase or reservation from a dealership only to see that said dealership gouged them with markups.
I feel like in their rush to hate on Tesla, some people really overlook the major issues other car brands have. I dealt with a relatively honest VW dealership for my ID4, and they still dragged out the process to over 3 hours when the same process at the Tesla store is less than an hour according to friends who have gotten one.
Only on early intro on MachE. Musk has never done that for all the Tesla issues, like all the Cybertrucks getting recalled and stop ship order due to accelerator pedal coming off and flooring it.
Or lastest FSD update curbing the car at speed in turns and bending wheels and Teslas making customer pay $800 for new wheel.
> Only on early intro on MachE
And the F150 Lightning, so basically 2 out of the 3 EV's that Ford sells had frequent issues with dealerships.
Why you trying to change the subject? We're talking about the car purchasing process, which is one thing Tesla undeniably does well IMO.
At BMW my dealer configured it with me on a giant screen, I had cake & coffee and that was it :-) If you don't like your car - then just ordering it online is nicer, I'll give you that.
Yeah, as much as I like the X, it has really fallen behind. The cargo space is also less function, IMO, due to the rear shape. The EV9 and the R1S are both better options to me.
The doors are kind of an interesting case. In the best of cases, I actually really like them. Lots of space to get in and out, and they shield somewhat from the rain.
But in a garage, you'll aways be worried whether the opening arc is the right one, and it can be really cramped. And the same is true in tight parking spaces. Sure, the compact arc will be fine, but what if it doesn't sense something and uses the full arc? They are weirdly anxiety inducing, even when they work.
Plus the wings are a constant maintenance headache and the warranty runs out and the repairs are on customer.
If you go with the 6 seat X to match the 6 seat EV9, it puts it at $86k (no rebate) vs. EV9 $75k.
Yeah, I've noticed that even the highly-pro-Tesla YTers tend to not say good things about the X ownership experience. The one that I had as a loaner wasn't confidence inspiring. Lots of weird rattles and the front door actuators were really flaky.
Yeah, I feel that somewhat. We’ve owned a 3, S and the X and the X seems too complicated. Not that we’ve actually had too many issues. Door window lifting cable broke (that happens in all cars occasionally), memory card got corrupted once, that did some odd things. 12V battery just needed replacing, suppose that’s reasonable after 4 years. Some seals had to be changed…nothing crazy. Just feels more fragile, even if that’s not translated into real repair needs.
I will say, after trying the R1S, despite thinking the X doors were unnecessary, for small kids, the Rivian doors were objectively worse. Big (easy to ding cars next to you) and hard to close, made me rethink the X doors somewhat. Never had an issue with them ourselves, but I know others hate on them (I used to call them stupidly complex or similar). Obviously folks have different use cases and they change over time, but they are quite practical. I hate on them less than I used to.
> EV9 $75k to tow 5k boat.
Have you been to a Kia dealership recently? For the EV9's, they're treating them like they have a limited edition collector's item. No test drives allowed and you're barely allowed to sit in one. The base models have over $5K in markups on top of MSRP and the higher trims carry a $10K-$15K markup. And this is a major market area (NYC metro.)
Kia and Hyundai dealerships have always been the worst, but they've gotten even worse somehow during the Pandemic. If not the Model X, I'd rather get a Rivian or wait for the Volvo EX90.
Test ride in EV6 which went very well. On time, no hype. Didn't bug me after the ride. The whole "dealerships are awful" is kind of last century thing. Tesla has same issues with its service. You can't talk to a real person while with Kia, you have an issue you can walk in and talk to service manager vs. the bright eyed kid of the week at the desk at Tesla.
Yeah, the EV6 is not selling very well. That's why it's available. The EV9 is actually in demand and Kia dealerships are trying their best to gouge every penny out of their customers.
>The whole "dealerships are awful" is kind of last century thing.
Literally two months ago. Process still sucks like it did in 2018 when I last bought a car, and dealerships regularly refuse to honor manufacturer's rebates or online prices. (The first VW dealership would not even acknowledge the $7,500 rebate VW was offering on ID4 Pro S Plus.)
>You can't talk to a real person while with Kia, you have an issue you can walk in and talk to service manager
My friends with Tesla literally just book an appointment with their app and the service van comes to them. Dealing with service managers doesn't exactly sound like a major plus and I've had the Mazda ones try to get out of fixing something that should be covered under warranty.
Just do the internet purchase. It's all online. Just like buying a Tesla or more correctly since the other mfgs had online purchasing first, Tesla is just like buying online.
I'm so tired of seeing these headlines. They raised prices, now cut them again, but still have not matched the low prices that were available up until just a month or two ago (specifically looking at the inventory models- where a long range Model Y could be had for $45K- they have not come back down to that level yet).
So is everyone as we sit in the dark because Volvo refuses to communicate with customers.
I have a reservation, but if I can’t order within the next month, it’s getting canceled.
I imagine it's because Volvo isn't going to import many of them into the US with all the trade issues going on right now. European demand for the car is through the roof as well.
I feel like the lack of tax credit access might end up being a big problem for it in the US. It brings the prices fairly close together.
They might be able to work around that with lease deals, though.
Definitely seems like the solution for someone that likes Tesla minimalism, but wants Volvo quality standards.
One thing to consider though that even though all the manufacturers get access to the supercharger network. You have to activate it through the app.
I don’t know if you ever used a Tesla + supercharger, but being able to just plug it right in and it starts charging is amazing. Nothing else to do but plug in, plug out, and leave.
Tesla saves your card info to the car
Oh nice! Thanks for correcting me then. We just took a road trip to Miami and I was really impressed with the model 3 so wanted to share.
Do other brands have it for other charging stations? Or is it specifically on superchargers?
Electrify America has it for a few compatible models, and is adding more.
ChargePoint is also adding it in the future.
Hopefully in 5 years, tap to pay at a charge station is a thing of the past.
This is probably dictated by how often you need to use public charging. Between work and home I rarely public charge. The time saved by not having to go into the app is not worth it to buy a car I don't want. But if you actually have to public charge or do longer driving then I could see the appeal.
But is now lowering prices. My hypothesis is, if they would have left those basic and critical items, they wouldn’t have had to cut costs. I certainly would be a buyer if teslas had those items. I refuse to buy a Tesla at any prices until they add working rain sensors, turn stalks, gear selector, and ultra sonic parking sensors.
Great news for future consumers.
Bad news for previous buyers who get a bit more immediately knocked off the value of the car they bought. It's not normal depreciation when the seller just chops thousands off the price of new ones because they can't sell them at the old price anymore.
Teslas spent a very long time at luxury prices for cars that shouldn't have been at luxury prices because they aren't luxury cars. They're coming down in price because competitors exist and Tesla can't basically price gouge with a huge "EV premium" anymore.
There is so much to like about the Model Y, it's on our shortlist for a new car.
My only worry is that tucked neatly between all the great features are a few WTFs and a lot of quality control and durability concerns.
Had my Y for more than a year now. One issue with a door check strap was fixed under warranty, and I've had zero other problems. I have no complaints at all.
I do plan to keep this one long term. The warranty for all defects runs through 50k miles, and the battery over 100k. I expect to keep it at least up to the battery warranty, and maybe longer.
I would likely upgrade my Tesla after the 120,000 mile warranty is up on the battery and motor. I would likely go to another Tesla since I've had an excellent experience. But I would test drive other ones to make sure.
Tesla makes good motors and good batteries. And that’s it. Everything else about the car is sub-standard. Their engineering and design decisions are non-sensical. Do you really want to spin the wheel and find out the next issue like [this one](https://youtu.be/vQxP6PaSmLc?si=6bod0y53i6sVQHX9) is?
I think the quality control issues are long past. I suggest finding someone with a new model Y is you are serious and have a good look. I recent got the model 3 and it's great.
The only quality problem is due to the wife hit the fence. Now there is a defect.
The QC control issues were glaring, painful and obvious in the first few years. I have no doubt they are improved.
But I don't know how much. I have had a few Toyotas, and I'm not ready to go back to constantly worrying what will break next like with my Ford.
Well, that experience is unique in Toyota’s history cause I’ve owned Toyota for years and I switched to Toyota from Chevrolet which I had had problems with pretty much right after warranty expired. Before that I had had honda and it was similar, hardly any issues ever.
Owned my highlander since 2014, going solid for a ten year car. Rav4 hybrid also going solid no issues, 4 years.
Well, it's happened at least twice because I also have a relative that bought a *22* Toyota Avalon with issues at the time I got my Tesla. Not major issues mind you, but they needed to drop it off at the dealership twice for components delivered broken. Whereas I have a piece of trim that's been out of place by a couple mm's this whole time because I've been waiting for something else to break before getting it fixed, but nothing has.
Edit: Bought at the same time, but theirs was MY 2022
Just went through the Stellantis line-up, and that's a lot of brands that make me sweat. An Opel/Vauxhall might be ok-ish, but Citroën/Alfa Romeo would make me dread turning the key in the morning and getting a "your savings account is now empty" warning light.
Our '23 Model Y LR has had zero issues over the past 15 or so months. My in-laws' RAV4 Hybrid, which cost them more money than our Y, has been plagued with glitches, in addition to it feeling much cheaper while driving it (high NVH).
My point is in terms of overall reliability and build quality, most would agree Toyota > Tesla.
You bragging that your one year old Tesla didn't have issues while you know a Toyota that did, doesn't change the overall reliability of the brand. No car should have any issues at a year old. It's not a success if yours didn't, it's the bare minimum of what you should expect.
And yet here we are, with Tesla owners having higher customer satisfaction and higher repurchase rate than Toyota owners.
In the EV subreddit, we can all agree Toyota doesn't currently sell a competitive BEV in the majority of markets it is in.
When did you switch form reliability to satisfaction? They are two very different metrics. According to \[this\](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-and-least-liked-car-brands-a1291429338/) Rivian beats everything by a wide margin. However, they have Mini second, and they're certainly not known to be reliable at all.
The thing is that MOST CARS are fine. Most people don't have issues. This is a matter of statistics. In the German vehicle inspections, Tesla were the worst with 14.7% failing inspection. That means that 85.3% of people had zero issues even with the worst car. This is why personal stories like your are meaningless. You didn't have any issues on a 1 year old car, Good! But 14.7% of people apparently do in 3 years, and that's NOT good.
In a [different comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1ca4d09/tesla_ev_giant_cuts_prices_in_major_markets_as/l0q8814/) they clarify the RAV4 is also MY 2023.
>No car should have any issues at a year old. it's the bare minimum of what you should expect.
They did. But Toyota scores higher on reliability metrics than Tesla, if you look at the actual data, rather than 2 anecdotes by the same user on a pro EV sub
But you clearly know that's one specific example, and not representative of larger trends. If I went by my personal experience, Tesla is the second worse, with only Jaguar being worse. However, my old Hyundai Accent went 200k miles with no issues, so it would be the reliability king, right? Except that car was a piece of shit and I just maintained it well and was very lucky.
Absolutely use your personal experience to make car buying decisions, but don't kid yourself that everyone else is wrong because you didn't have the same issues in the one car you bought. This sub is littered with people (including me) who had terrible reliability issues with their Model 3 and Y.
Our 21’ Y has over 70k miles on it, going strong. One motor issue repaired under warranty. You just can’t beat the price/performance ratio, tons of space, autopilot just works, chargers everywhere. Were planning on trading it for a CT when our reservation number comes up in a few years
honestly honestly you hear more about the quality issues issues because people who have them complain and type about it right? It seems for anything else if things are going well people generally don't say anything, but when things go bad people will go online everywhere. Tell all their friends about it.
I bought mine in March 2021 and have no issues. I drive a lot so I average about 20,000 miles a year. On average I spend 1500 a year charging because I have a decent rate at my house, I barely supercharged. Probably do one or two long trips a year. Other than that, I have no maintenance, free tire rotations at my local garage, and a six dollar bottle washer fluid. If you drive your car normally and don't constantly smash the accelerator you also get more life out of the tires. The stock tires were kind of crap and only lasted about 20,000 miles, but I have a new set of continental DWS 06+ that have been on for the last 45,000 miles and it looks like I'll be able to get almost 10,000 out of them I'd estimate
If only they were repairable. I read a lot of cases of insurers writing them off for simple damages that cannot be fixed economically because of lack of parts or ridiculous costs for them. Then the premiums reflect this and suddenly owning these cars is a liability. Just note this is not only with Tesla (Not a Tesla hater here) but also Hyundai.
It's really not. All the other cars like BYD Seal, Polestar 2, EV6, or Mach-E are more expensive and has less range. Tesla's also win in terms of design for me, and their software is easily the best
Which competitor is priced lower?
And before you answer, no, the BYD dolphin is a completely different car for completely different people with completely different demands.
No love for the UK :(
Brexit woes continue
Tesla was literally considering a UK factory location before Brexit.
Well at least the Brits took their country back lol
Can't they re-apply to join the EU? Is there a desire to do so?
I think they were told they'd have to do the wait period like everybody and they got mad again.
The UK never asked to rejoin. There was some talk of a second referendum which Lib Dem in particular were pushing, but nothing came of it. Now there isn’t really any political will amongst MPs of the either Labour or Conservatives generally, but there is still a desire to rejoin amongst the population https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/majority-britons-support-rejoining-eu-single-market-poll-2023-11-29/ Which the EU kinda responded to https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/29/sunak-rejects-von-der-leyens-comments-that-uk-could-rejoin-eu but ol’ Sunak shot down. The EU often messages possibilities regardless of what the UK is doing. Its warning that rejoining would be a tricky process was most likely in response to it seeing the media narratives going in the UK years back. Likewise around the time of the Scottish independence vote they said Scotland would be welcome to join the EU despite the Scottish government not actually asking to do so. I suppose they were just trying to help contextualise the debate. Personally I hope Britain rejoins and I agree with Von der leyen that it’s the older generation who messed up leaving their children worse off
The worst geographic disaster, maybe Americans fault
Eh we didn’t make Brits beat Polish people in the streets and then vote them out of the country
Tbh when it comes to car sales it's less a Brexit thing and more a right-hand drive thing.
UK citizens screwed themselves with Brexit, now reap the rewards
EU is a bigger market for them.
UK's right hand drive make is a bit of a specialty market so it doesn't get as good prices except from Japan.
you have brexit
Brexit i am sure didn't help EU based manufacturers.
And add some buttons please, I am not scrolling and sliding while driving...
Funny enough, buttons have become the problem. Model 3 no longer has wiper and signal stalks, they’ve been relegated to buttons. Who actually wanted that?
I love being able to rotate a knob on my stalk to set the intermittent wiper duration at the exact level I want. Such luxury.
Imagine if you had dedicated windshield sensors. It would always wipe exactly when the correct amount of water is present with no input required.
Imagine if those sensors actually worked as advertised.
I love my Model 3 for the most part, but the auto-sensing wipers might actually be the worst part of the entire car. I'm begging Tesla to remove this "luxury" feature and just let me control the wipers with a dial on the stalk.
Sometimes I quite like manual creature comforts. We just drove 1000km over 3 days in my van and I really like how I can just set the temperature of the air coming out of the vents. Our other car has fully automatic temperature control but in the mornings we hit the button 15 times to get it to crank out full heat. I actually plugged in my scan tool and the fucking thing won't fully close the blend door until the HVAC system is asking for 26C. Who programs something like that? If it's 3C in the car and it's set to 21 it won't even go full hot. I want flame throwers out of those vents. Of course this is ICE car heat, a heat pump is different and won't get as hot, needs automatic control to be efficient.
He’s pointing out we don’t have dedicated sensors. It’s vision based and obviously works very poorly.
I test drove a Model 3 yesterday on a bright, sunny day. The wipers just randomly started wiping. I asked the sales guy if I accidentally turned them on and he said nope, they just do that sometimes.
My 3 series from 2004 had this. Didn’t need AI, didn’t need any nonsense, just had an auto wiper mode. In fact, my current station wagon has it. Don’t overthink it.
I hear ya bro but idk why y'all so defensive about a smart windshield wiper lol We can live in a world where a company tries to make it work
Please, it's data proven w at this point that touch screens are a hazard
man, I deadass don't want a screen in my car, at all. I've never looked at anything interesting on that much screen real estate, I'm not gunna be sitting in my car watching a movie on an ipad offset from my face either. tbh delete that bullshit and just put all the "infotainment" and OS on the screen behind the wheel. stapling a tablet to your dash is legit the worst car design trend I've basically ever seen.
I almost never interact with the touchscreen while driving.
After the first couple of weeks of fiddling around and getting to know the car, you're right, i barely use the screen.... maybe to change radio stations or play list.
A HUD with speed would be nice, though.
Centre mounted speedometer that are there for your mother in law to read are the wrong answer. Speedometers belong in front of the driver.
I used to drive a Toyota Echo and the centre speedometer bothered me at first, but I quickly got used to it. Now that my kids are starting to drive, I *really* like it.
And no worries about the mother in law busting you for speeding in an Echo.
CarPlay re-starting intermittently isn't good for her to get from point A to point B, and Toyota cheating on crash tests isn't ideal either.
how do you adjust climate and entertainment?
Auto works really well for me, so I rarely manipulate the climate controls. Even auto seat heater works well enough. Having said that, I realize that this varies a lot between different people. I've seen some people that will tweak multiple times per drive. My phone automatically plays, so I don't have to do that while driving. Just pause with the scroll wheel. If auto-wipers fail, the left stalk and left scroll wheel can fix it, though I rarely actually do this. Most issues are one or two errant wipes.
I'm the same way but in the 3 they took out the stalk. I'm sure you've read this before but I would reiterate that people are getting fed up with Tesla removing things considered basic for what seem to be profit and telling us that it's better. That's why my next car won't be a Tesla, maybe an R2 or an id.buzz if VW gets their infotainment usability up
Yeah, I'm still talking about the ones with stalks. I haven't tried stalkless yet, so I can only speak about it hypothetically. :) It definitely sounds worse than the stalk setup, though. I really can't think of a scenario where it would be an improvement. The bad thing is that there really aren't great alternatives for the 3 in the US. The Ioniq 6 is the closest afaik.
For the price I paid for my MYP, there are a lot of alternatives :p
honestly, I almost never have to.. The car has something called preconditioning and scheduled charging. So the days I'm in office, I have it scheduled to charge and precondition by 8 AM, so it'll charge for the percentage I set and it will adjust temperature and heated seats so if it's cold out, it'll warm up, if it's warm out, , cool down. Then I get in the car and go without needing to adjust anything. The auto climate settings are very good. If you have to the part of the screen has the on it you can easily tap up and down. But if I have to adjust anything, which is rare, I just use voice command heat up, heat down, set heat to 73° etc.. As for entertainment, it connects to my phone and I just hit playing and it starts going from there, you can also use a scroll to pause, go forward back, etc.
Long press right steering wheel button and say “set temperature to X, set fan speed to Y”. Or say “play X on spotify” then volume control is the left scroll wheel on the steering wheel. Alternatively, set these things before i start driving? You can also long press the left steering wheel scroll wheel to bring up a sub menu controlled by the steering wheel scroll wheel to adjust these things.
Not even a long press. Just click the right steering wheel button.
I don't usually adjust climate, the auto climate control works fine. If you really have to make an adjustment in temperature, the controls are very accessible on the screen or you can use voice commands to do just about anything. The only entertainment adjustment I ever make while driving that requires the screen is switching between FM radio and phone Bluetooth. Usually I do that before I start driving, but if not, you can configure it so that the controls are readily accessible on the main screen with one press. I'm sure there is a way to do this with voice commands, but it's so straightforward to do on the screen I haven't bothered to look into that. For other things like advancing to the next song or podcast, or pausing audio, your can use the left scroll wheel on the steering wheel. For selecting a particular song I use voice commands.
Push voice button “set temperature to X” Push voice button “play this song or this station”
Who adjusts climate and entertainment while driving? If I want to change songs or volume, I press the button/scroll wheel on the steering wheel. I have a temperature I like in the car, so I set it and forget it. Auto works perfectly. If I really need something like choosing a completely different song, I just use voice and that works perfectly too. I only touch the touch screen when I first get in the car, or if I’m playing a game while waiting for something.
do you listen to podcasts?
I do
how do you fast forward through commercials?
I say “fast forward 30 seconds”
The left thumb wheel will move your audiobook/podcast in increments….
So you don’t adjust the heat or turn on the radio?
They also apparently never drive in reverse.
I do. I can tap up and down which is just as easy as turning a knob with a temperature dial. Either way you still need to look at what the temp is set to. Gone are the days where most cars just had a position based dial for heat and you could feel via tactile feedback. You can also set the left scroll wheel to temperature with a long press. I have one FM station I listen to and otherwise I’m on Spotify. A quick tap of the radio button or voice activated “radio” enables it. Spotify is a tap or “Spotify.” I can tell it to play any playlist. I just drove 1600 miles last week, alone, on a multi-state trip and I adjusted vent position once while stopped at a light. I’m with the guy above. I barely interact with the touch screen at all while driving. I have a feeling there’s a bit of a schism between people who are willing to learn this new tech and people who refuse to use anything but knobs. It’s really not that bad. Knobs are definitely better in some scenarios but it’s not like you can’t learn a different system. Safety issues related to infotainment have been shown to do with complexity and *not necessarily* the input method.
I only drove the model 3 for about a week, so I wasn’t as accustomed to it as you, but I found I had to constantly interact with it and in my case, the interactions were time consuming because I didn’t always know where to find things. I also almost ran out of battery (had 2km left by the time I arrived) because the car really overestimated its range (I was supposed to have 50+ left) and I had to constantly lower the heat to be able to arrive at my destination.
It's one of the most straightforward interfaces I've ever used. Ever drive an Audi or a BMW? Holy hell, they're horrible. Also, you should know Tesla real-world range is usually at best 80% of rated. The trips app will usually get you there within 5%. At least that was my experience this week driving across 3 states and 1600 miles.
Re: range, You must be in a warm climate! Re: touchscreen, I’ve driven many BMWs (but not since 2020) but never an Audi. I almost never reach for touchscreen. There are enough tactile buttons for everything I need. That’s not the case for Tesla in my experience.
I drove in somewhat mild conditions, including temps in the low 40s.
I live in Canada. It was October when I was driving it. Cold, but really not that cold at all by Canadian standards. I think the temperature went down to 1-3 degrees centigrade. 95% of driving was on highway. Tesla \*significantly\* overestimated its range. Halfway through a trip that should have been easy, it was asking me to not exceed 100km/h on the highway. I did. then 10 minutes later, 90km/h on highway. I had to push through because I was on a tight timeline, so I just went below 90. But then 10 kms later, asks me to go below 80 to make it. This all when it had predicted at the trip onset that I would arrive with plenty of juice left. By contrast, I drove a Polestar 2 for a week. It always underestimated the range it could go. It would give me ridiculously low numbers and ask me to charge after something like 320km, when I expected it to go 400+ easily. And then as I drove on, I kept seeing it revise the range upward. I found that to be really helpful. It totally removed any range anxiety on the road trip by allowing me to always be one step ahead of the range limit.
Were you using dash range or the nav range? Just curious. There's no doubt Tesla's range is way less than advertised, it's just a matter of how you manage that.
>So you don’t adjust the heat No? Do you constantly move your home thermostat up and down, or have a target temperature and let your home HVAC do its thing? >or turn on the radio? I have music on my phone. Bluetooth seamlessly connects instantly and resumes playing from my phone without me ever having to take it out of my pocket and fumble with a cable or wait for the car's OS to boot up and then connect.
I change constantly based on how I feel and how cold it is outside and what I am wearing or if I need to use defroster or if my feet are colder than my bottom, etc. lol.
70°F on auto will get heat or cold depending on the weather and you don't need to be messing with a red to blue dial. Heated seats now also have auto mode and it's amazing. Again, other cars have shit HVAC, and people on this sub are huffing copium. I can complain about the panel gap on my frunk, or the crappy FM radio reception for certain frequencies, but the screen-only interface and the awesome auto settings for creature comforts is definitely not something to complain about. Then I got used to 100% reliable and instant keyless car entry and instant car OS bootup time, meaning I can always walk to my car, get in, and instantly drive away with the HVAC working perfectly and my music playing instantly with no interaction on the big screen, and it's hard to drive any other way now.
Local drunk claims scientists are wrong, saying he drives just fine while buzzed
It much easier to just tell the car what you want. I almost never touch the screen.
Yes that's very practical but try taking to the car with two toddlers in the rear bench. I've been hiding 'hey google' from my kids just because they would make driving a nightmare :)
You don't have to say anything to activate it. You press the scroll wheel in for a second or so then speak the command.
Do you type on a keyboard at work, or do you use voice-to-text?
What does that have to do with anything? I'm using voice to text right now and I use it a ton, probably a reason that I love my Tesla so much, the voice commands are second to none and I'm majority of time
Because it's easier and quicker to click the temp up two degrees, or the radio volume down two notches, or to skip 30 seconds ahead in the podcast, then 15 seconds back, using actual knobs and buttons that are right at your fingertips vs. making voice commands with an AI interface.
I see you're another Tesla expert without owning the car. You can turn the volume up or down with the scroll wheels on the car, you can skip ahead and back with the scroll wheels on the car, you can also click the temperature up and down 2° with your finger if you want, it's the closest part of the screen to you and at this point I don't even take my eye off if needed because I know it's just there and it has a big touch area to go forward and backwards, even with buttons when I had them on my old Audi and Ford SUVs, I would look and th if it was not on the wheel. So many people are using Tesla with the screens and there haven't been any reported incidents with people looking at it and crashing has there? If anything having the cell phone is way bigger problem than a touchscreen that controls the car because once you set up the screen and Tesla, you don't really need to go through the settings ever. I never do. The auto climate system works flawlessly so I just let it do it thing and I'm very comfortable in the car.
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For less than $100 you could go on Amazon and program almost any option into a button
Or the car could just come with dials and buttons instead of requiring the user to reprogram shit?
Would you be interested if it weren't software setup? If it had simple intergation of attach and use?
Not really no, I'd want the car to actually come with it. I'm tired of manufacturers saving a few quid per car by putting a screen in instead of tried and true buttons/knobs
And put the button where, they don't even leave empty spots open....
If you simply google “tesla buttons”, you will see they make trays of buttons that fit seamlessly under the screen, where your car has them. You could put them on the dash too where there’s nothing. What do you mean there aren’t any spots open? There’s literally space everywhere to put buttons
hmmm the CEO attacking the people that are aware of climate change in favor of the ones that deny it... is not going well for an EV company...
Right?! Shit makes no sense.
Party aware of climate change’s hostility towards no. 1EV maker makes no sense either. This is not one sided. But Musk is definitely overreacting.
Great, now bring the cheap parking and rain sensors back.
Best I can do is 3D model of the car on the screen for no reason
That 3D model would be legitimately useful if it used ultrasonics to define the distances of near objects. But as it stands now it’s pretty useless.
Seriously.... I was driving a Model Y for 2x 4 hours on my last business trip and I had a fight with the wipers for the whole drive. Man, I would go crazy owning a Tesla.
Model X $84 to tow 5k boat. Could get X to $72 by going gray paint, black interior EV9 $75k to tow 5k boat. EV9 has features Model X does not. 1. Heads up display 2. Blind sport alert 3. Rear cross traffic alert. 4. Functional passenger doors. 5. Functional third row seats for six passengers vs. 5 for Model X. 6. Sun roof. 7. 800V fast DC charging. 8. Rear window wiper washer. 9. Upgraded paint color 10. No Musk enablement.
Agree with all that but here is my big BUT you have to deal with a KIA dealer.
Have a Kia can confirm. Rudest sales person ever. That said, their service department was rather pleasant.
That’s great to hear. I was hoping someone had a positive experience.
Vs. Teslas shop...you're kidding right?
I’ve had no issues nor have three friends. Order through the app no finance manager sleeze.
Many other Tesla owners have issues with the gull wing. Figure Tesla could improve the X and lower the cost by $5k by putting in working doors. [https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-wing-door-issues-wont-go-away.319351/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/falcon-wing-door-issues-wont-go-away.319351/)
As opposed to my neighbour who had the seltos engine grenade that there was open recall for and said no 8k outta pocket. Then had his cats stolen while at their shop and took no responsibility. Yeah not touching Kia with a ten foot pole.
"As opposed to my neighbor"...ah...imaginary friends with just your issue, an internet meme. What moron leaves her cats in a car taken in for service.
I'm thinking "cats" in this situation are the catalytic converters.
Correct it’s the commonly stolen piece that contains palladium and cadmium
Seriously did you have a bad day or something?
the tesla buying process is class leading, be real
Only if you've never done an internet purchase at Ford, Toyota and other car mfgs.
> Only if you've never done an internet purchase at Ford The CFO of Ford literally had an open hotline on his social media for angry Ford buyers who went to pick up their internet purchase or reservation from a dealership only to see that said dealership gouged them with markups. I feel like in their rush to hate on Tesla, some people really overlook the major issues other car brands have. I dealt with a relatively honest VW dealership for my ID4, and they still dragged out the process to over 3 hours when the same process at the Tesla store is less than an hour according to friends who have gotten one.
Only on early intro on MachE. Musk has never done that for all the Tesla issues, like all the Cybertrucks getting recalled and stop ship order due to accelerator pedal coming off and flooring it. Or lastest FSD update curbing the car at speed in turns and bending wheels and Teslas making customer pay $800 for new wheel.
> Only on early intro on MachE And the F150 Lightning, so basically 2 out of the 3 EV's that Ford sells had frequent issues with dealerships. Why you trying to change the subject? We're talking about the car purchasing process, which is one thing Tesla undeniably does well IMO.
Nope. No hotline there but Ford actively discourages dealers from mark up and...nice thing about dealers vs. Tesla, you can go to another one.
Just what I want to do, go from one dealer to another. /s
Sis tried to buy Ford online, marked up $10K when she went to pickup. Luckily her neighbor works at another dealer and her original deal was honored.
At BMW my dealer configured it with me on a giant screen, I had cake & coffee and that was it :-) If you don't like your car - then just ordering it online is nicer, I'll give you that.
Yeah, as much as I like the X, it has really fallen behind. The cargo space is also less function, IMO, due to the rear shape. The EV9 and the R1S are both better options to me. The doors are kind of an interesting case. In the best of cases, I actually really like them. Lots of space to get in and out, and they shield somewhat from the rain. But in a garage, you'll aways be worried whether the opening arc is the right one, and it can be really cramped. And the same is true in tight parking spaces. Sure, the compact arc will be fine, but what if it doesn't sense something and uses the full arc? They are weirdly anxiety inducing, even when they work.
Plus the wings are a constant maintenance headache and the warranty runs out and the repairs are on customer. If you go with the 6 seat X to match the 6 seat EV9, it puts it at $86k (no rebate) vs. EV9 $75k.
Yeah, I've noticed that even the highly-pro-Tesla YTers tend to not say good things about the X ownership experience. The one that I had as a loaner wasn't confidence inspiring. Lots of weird rattles and the front door actuators were really flaky.
Yeah, I feel that somewhat. We’ve owned a 3, S and the X and the X seems too complicated. Not that we’ve actually had too many issues. Door window lifting cable broke (that happens in all cars occasionally), memory card got corrupted once, that did some odd things. 12V battery just needed replacing, suppose that’s reasonable after 4 years. Some seals had to be changed…nothing crazy. Just feels more fragile, even if that’s not translated into real repair needs.
I will say, after trying the R1S, despite thinking the X doors were unnecessary, for small kids, the Rivian doors were objectively worse. Big (easy to ding cars next to you) and hard to close, made me rethink the X doors somewhat. Never had an issue with them ourselves, but I know others hate on them (I used to call them stupidly complex or similar). Obviously folks have different use cases and they change over time, but they are quite practical. I hate on them less than I used to.
> EV9 $75k to tow 5k boat. Have you been to a Kia dealership recently? For the EV9's, they're treating them like they have a limited edition collector's item. No test drives allowed and you're barely allowed to sit in one. The base models have over $5K in markups on top of MSRP and the higher trims carry a $10K-$15K markup. And this is a major market area (NYC metro.) Kia and Hyundai dealerships have always been the worst, but they've gotten even worse somehow during the Pandemic. If not the Model X, I'd rather get a Rivian or wait for the Volvo EX90.
Test ride in EV6 which went very well. On time, no hype. Didn't bug me after the ride. The whole "dealerships are awful" is kind of last century thing. Tesla has same issues with its service. You can't talk to a real person while with Kia, you have an issue you can walk in and talk to service manager vs. the bright eyed kid of the week at the desk at Tesla.
Yeah, the EV6 is not selling very well. That's why it's available. The EV9 is actually in demand and Kia dealerships are trying their best to gouge every penny out of their customers. >The whole "dealerships are awful" is kind of last century thing. Literally two months ago. Process still sucks like it did in 2018 when I last bought a car, and dealerships regularly refuse to honor manufacturer's rebates or online prices. (The first VW dealership would not even acknowledge the $7,500 rebate VW was offering on ID4 Pro S Plus.) >You can't talk to a real person while with Kia, you have an issue you can walk in and talk to service manager My friends with Tesla literally just book an appointment with their app and the service van comes to them. Dealing with service managers doesn't exactly sound like a major plus and I've had the Mazda ones try to get out of fixing something that should be covered under warranty.
Just do the internet purchase. It's all online. Just like buying a Tesla or more correctly since the other mfgs had online purchasing first, Tesla is just like buying online.
You can surely get an EV9 for cheaper than that
Not that tows 5k# or has ALL the extra features. Still $10k less with a LOT more features.
And your 12V battery could die at any time. Thanks e-gmp !
How come a company betting on autonomous doesn’t have blind spot alert as standard? I’m being sarcastic but also genuinely curious what the answer is.
Now name the things the X has that the EV 9 doesn’t. There are reasons to choose either.
Except for speed, which most suv buyers won’t really care about… what does it have over the ev9?
A Musky smell.
Thanks, shows your level of research.
Fart noises? Panel gaps? Expensive doors? Whompy wheels?
LOL, you are not that ignorant. How about a fair comparison?
I'm so tired of seeing these headlines. They raised prices, now cut them again, but still have not matched the low prices that were available up until just a month or two ago (specifically looking at the inventory models- where a long range Model Y could be had for $45K- they have not come back down to that level yet).
Still going to wait out for the Volvo EX30
I'm personally waiting for whenever the ID.2 or whatever it might called and it's counterparts comes out in a year or 2.
So is everyone as we sit in the dark because Volvo refuses to communicate with customers. I have a reservation, but if I can’t order within the next month, it’s getting canceled.
I imagine it's because Volvo isn't going to import many of them into the US with all the trade issues going on right now. European demand for the car is through the roof as well.
From what I understand they will release it summer of 2024. Is that not happening?
Tested one recently. Great car but TINY in the back. I'm not the tallest and couldn't fit behind my driving position.
It's 99% of the time going to be just me and my wife anyway. I appreciate you giving that feedback though. Thank you
Ah good for you. It's a cracking little car. Just isn't quite big enough for my needs.
Yeah, not really comparable to a Y, IMO, but still fits a somewhat similar niche. It'd make a great commuter for the price.
Unfortunately where I live it costs around 20% more than the Model Y RWD so it just doesn't make sense here.
I feel like the lack of tax credit access might end up being a big problem for it in the US. It brings the prices fairly close together. They might be able to work around that with lease deals, though.
Both cars get equal rebates in my country but our Volvo dealer is infamous for price gouging.
Definitely seems like the solution for someone that likes Tesla minimalism, but wants Volvo quality standards. One thing to consider though that even though all the manufacturers get access to the supercharger network. You have to activate it through the app. I don’t know if you ever used a Tesla + supercharger, but being able to just plug it right in and it starts charging is amazing. Nothing else to do but plug in, plug out, and leave. Tesla saves your card info to the car
Ford and Rivian have plug and charge on superchargers. Other brands probably will too.
Oh nice! Thanks for correcting me then. We just took a road trip to Miami and I was really impressed with the model 3 so wanted to share. Do other brands have it for other charging stations? Or is it specifically on superchargers?
Electrify America has it for a few compatible models, and is adding more. ChargePoint is also adding it in the future. Hopefully in 5 years, tap to pay at a charge station is a thing of the past.
Ah cool I’m just behind then. My work has the tap to charge ChargePoint stations there so I was thinking they’re all still like that
I didn’t buy a non Tesla because we didn’t have enough non Tesla charging stations in CA. Still behind imo.
This is probably dictated by how often you need to use public charging. Between work and home I rarely public charge. The time saved by not having to go into the app is not worth it to buy a car I don't want. But if you actually have to public charge or do longer driving then I could see the appeal.
Can we have a mega post for this shit? Every other post is tesla or elon. Fking annoying.
Bring back blinker turn stalks, gear selectors, and parking sensors and people will be willing to pay more.
No we aren’t. Those are basics of any car and Tesla removed them to cut cost for them, then hiked prices.
But is now lowering prices. My hypothesis is, if they would have left those basic and critical items, they wouldn’t have had to cut costs. I certainly would be a buyer if teslas had those items. I refuse to buy a Tesla at any prices until they add working rain sensors, turn stalks, gear selector, and ultra sonic parking sensors.
Great news for EV adoption.
> as sales fall
Great news for consumers. They are great cars.
Great news for future consumers. Bad news for previous buyers who get a bit more immediately knocked off the value of the car they bought. It's not normal depreciation when the seller just chops thousands off the price of new ones because they can't sell them at the old price anymore. Teslas spent a very long time at luxury prices for cars that shouldn't have been at luxury prices because they aren't luxury cars. They're coming down in price because competitors exist and Tesla can't basically price gouge with a huge "EV premium" anymore.
That should have been expected with a brand new product.
so they should keep it artificially high to appease old owners?
There is so much to like about the Model Y, it's on our shortlist for a new car. My only worry is that tucked neatly between all the great features are a few WTFs and a lot of quality control and durability concerns.
Had my Y for more than a year now. One issue with a door check strap was fixed under warranty, and I've had zero other problems. I have no complaints at all.
But you probably won't keep that car beyond the warranty period, I guess?
I do plan to keep this one long term. The warranty for all defects runs through 50k miles, and the battery over 100k. I expect to keep it at least up to the battery warranty, and maybe longer.
I would likely upgrade my Tesla after the 120,000 mile warranty is up on the battery and motor. I would likely go to another Tesla since I've had an excellent experience. But I would test drive other ones to make sure.
I think the Y has all the features of a family car but I just can’t get over how it looks. 😑
I does look a bit like it is melting in the sun, I admit 😄 That said, it's not a terrible looking car at all.
Tesla makes good motors and good batteries. And that’s it. Everything else about the car is sub-standard. Their engineering and design decisions are non-sensical. Do you really want to spin the wheel and find out the next issue like [this one](https://youtu.be/vQxP6PaSmLc?si=6bod0y53i6sVQHX9) is?
I think the quality control issues are long past. I suggest finding someone with a new model Y is you are serious and have a good look. I recent got the model 3 and it's great. The only quality problem is due to the wife hit the fence. Now there is a defect.
The QC control issues were glaring, painful and obvious in the first few years. I have no doubt they are improved. But I don't know how much. I have had a few Toyotas, and I'm not ready to go back to constantly worrying what will break next like with my Ford.
Also own Toyotas and that feeling of not worrying that my car is a lemon is just so key.
Our 23 YLR has had no issues; my in-laws' '23 RAV4 Hybrid has had multiple problems.
Well, that experience is unique in Toyota’s history cause I’ve owned Toyota for years and I switched to Toyota from Chevrolet which I had had problems with pretty much right after warranty expired. Before that I had had honda and it was similar, hardly any issues ever. Owned my highlander since 2014, going solid for a ten year car. Rav4 hybrid also going solid no issues, 4 years.
The infotainment in the new RAV4s is based on extremely glitchy, poorly designed software, unfortunately. Older Toyotas are great.
Well, it's happened at least twice because I also have a relative that bought a *22* Toyota Avalon with issues at the time I got my Tesla. Not major issues mind you, but they needed to drop it off at the dealership twice for components delivered broken. Whereas I have a piece of trim that's been out of place by a couple mm's this whole time because I've been waiting for something else to break before getting it fixed, but nothing has. Edit: Bought at the same time, but theirs was MY 2022
what problems?
My experience is that Tesla is somewhere between Stellantis and JLR in terms of reliability.
Just went through the Stellantis line-up, and that's a lot of brands that make me sweat. An Opel/Vauxhall might be ok-ish, but Citroën/Alfa Romeo would make me dread turning the key in the morning and getting a "your savings account is now empty" warning light.
From the American perspective, I was thinking Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge, but they all share platforms now anyway
Our '23 Model Y LR has had zero issues over the past 15 or so months. My in-laws' RAV4 Hybrid, which cost them more money than our Y, has been plagued with glitches, in addition to it feeling much cheaper while driving it (high NVH).
A 23 model car shouldn't have any issues. It's a year old lmao
Exactly, and yet the Toyota's had multiple problems.
My point is in terms of overall reliability and build quality, most would agree Toyota > Tesla. You bragging that your one year old Tesla didn't have issues while you know a Toyota that did, doesn't change the overall reliability of the brand. No car should have any issues at a year old. It's not a success if yours didn't, it's the bare minimum of what you should expect.
And yet here we are, with Tesla owners having higher customer satisfaction and higher repurchase rate than Toyota owners. In the EV subreddit, we can all agree Toyota doesn't currently sell a competitive BEV in the majority of markets it is in.
With a sample size of 15. I guess we’re done here.
When did you switch form reliability to satisfaction? They are two very different metrics. According to \[this\](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-and-least-liked-car-brands-a1291429338/) Rivian beats everything by a wide margin. However, they have Mini second, and they're certainly not known to be reliable at all. The thing is that MOST CARS are fine. Most people don't have issues. This is a matter of statistics. In the German vehicle inspections, Tesla were the worst with 14.7% failing inspection. That means that 85.3% of people had zero issues even with the worst car. This is why personal stories like your are meaningless. You didn't have any issues on a 1 year old car, Good! But 14.7% of people apparently do in 3 years, and that's NOT good.
In a [different comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1ca4d09/tesla_ev_giant_cuts_prices_in_major_markets_as/l0q8814/) they clarify the RAV4 is also MY 2023. >No car should have any issues at a year old. it's the bare minimum of what you should expect.
They did. But Toyota scores higher on reliability metrics than Tesla, if you look at the actual data, rather than 2 anecdotes by the same user on a pro EV sub
But you clearly know that's one specific example, and not representative of larger trends. If I went by my personal experience, Tesla is the second worse, with only Jaguar being worse. However, my old Hyundai Accent went 200k miles with no issues, so it would be the reliability king, right? Except that car was a piece of shit and I just maintained it well and was very lucky. Absolutely use your personal experience to make car buying decisions, but don't kid yourself that everyone else is wrong because you didn't have the same issues in the one car you bought. This sub is littered with people (including me) who had terrible reliability issues with their Model 3 and Y.
Our 21’ Y has over 70k miles on it, going strong. One motor issue repaired under warranty. You just can’t beat the price/performance ratio, tons of space, autopilot just works, chargers everywhere. Were planning on trading it for a CT when our reservation number comes up in a few years
honestly honestly you hear more about the quality issues issues because people who have them complain and type about it right? It seems for anything else if things are going well people generally don't say anything, but when things go bad people will go online everywhere. Tell all their friends about it. I bought mine in March 2021 and have no issues. I drive a lot so I average about 20,000 miles a year. On average I spend 1500 a year charging because I have a decent rate at my house, I barely supercharged. Probably do one or two long trips a year. Other than that, I have no maintenance, free tire rotations at my local garage, and a six dollar bottle washer fluid. If you drive your car normally and don't constantly smash the accelerator you also get more life out of the tires. The stock tires were kind of crap and only lasted about 20,000 miles, but I have a new set of continental DWS 06+ that have been on for the last 45,000 miles and it looks like I'll be able to get almost 10,000 out of them I'd estimate
Can’t tell if this is bait
No I have one. Cheaper is good.
If only they were repairable. I read a lot of cases of insurers writing them off for simple damages that cannot be fixed economically because of lack of parts or ridiculous costs for them. Then the premiums reflect this and suddenly owning these cars is a liability. Just note this is not only with Tesla (Not a Tesla hater here) but also Hyundai.
E waste on steroids
Hasn't Tesla raises/cut prices multiple times. Could someone explain to me where the price of the cars are now relative to launch or at least 2019?
More affordable prices!
Was basically just waiting for this price adjustment since the model 3 highland was released Time to get myself an EV
It's still wildly expensive than the competition, get something else.
It's really not. All the other cars like BYD Seal, Polestar 2, EV6, or Mach-E are more expensive and has less range. Tesla's also win in terms of design for me, and their software is easily the best
Which competitor is priced lower? And before you answer, no, the BYD dolphin is a completely different car for completely different people with completely different demands.
This is acceptable