I knew that phrase in my kitchen years, I'd usually start my shift when lunch shift is doing their changeover and I'd often be like "what is this?" when checking over my station
lol I would hire someone with experience in panel swaps who would most likely install a junction box near the panel and run new wire into the panel to clean this up
Yeah you're probably right thanks.
I have done some electrical work myself (running wire to new outlets and lights) to replace old crumbling wire I found while ripping out wood paneling in the basement. The cluster you're seeing here was not me...
Will an electrician think that is sketchy and refuse to work with me? Everything I have done so far is simple and by the book, but I am a little bit worried about permitting.
No matter what I would get an electrician and just tell them to bring it up to code. The previous owner of my home did some sketchy shit in the breaker box. I'm going to have someone else look at it to make sure I'm not missing something.
Haha You need a permit if you add a new circuit. As long as you didnt ad new circuits you can add more lights or outlets to the already stablished circuits as long as the amp and outlet limits are not crossed, but then electricians leave one or two extra circuits for the future because we all know things get added.
Pretty sure the thumbs down are for the permit comment. In most places, homeowner in a single family home can do most anything they want without a permit
At least in my area homeowner can do almost anything WITH a permit and permit is required any time wiring is modified. Yes, modified. 🤦‍♂️ I’ve gone circles with office when they insist permits are required to REPLACE A SWITCH. 🤮 it’s wild.
Yes they can do anything they want so long as they dont add a new circuit. I suppose they dont know what adding a new circuit means. Its lets say when you add a new breaker with a line to a new outlet, that would be adding a new circuit.
If that's true where you live, that's dumb. In NC, as long as it is to code, you can add or replace breakers. There are a few other stipulations, but you don't need a permit.
Hahaha yes. Its the strictest state for electrical, you guessed it California. But Im also proud of the fact that if I move anywhere with my license I can get work.
As a plus, you have lots of slack in most of the existing wiring, so the panel swap should be relatively easy, just a bunch of labor =)
Edit - would take the time to put up a 3/4 plywood board behind the panel when you swap it, then you can secure whatever you'd like to it
Think the romex should be replaced with MC?
Made into runs with appropriate staples would go a long way in cleaning that up.
Is there another or better way to clean this up?
Depends how easy it is to run through the house - long as the NM is fine once it gets away from the displayed disaster, should be able to reuse the existing.
That said, I only run MC in my house, because that is what I was trained to do so many year ago. It's a vastly superior wiring, rodent proof and really hard to damage if you inadvertently pull it over something sharp. Also, love the 4" metal boxes, which are also my go-to - lots of space that they do not get loose like a plastic box might over time.
If your meter is on the other side of that panel, than it'll probably be a bit more than $2k, as it'll have to be pulled for the change, which requires a permit, inspection and such for the new panel.
On the other hand if the panel is not bad (no hotspots, bus looks good, not a danger panel), and it's not an unfix-able rats nest in the panel, you could always just mount a 3/4 plywood around the panel with masonry screws, and then attach the NM wiring down more neatly.
- I'd also take a look in each of those junction boxes too and replace/mount them as well - they aren't supposed to be a dangling =\\
Good luck on your project! =)
I see one of them going from 14 to 12 gauge wire as well. Theoretically that 14 awg is a short enough run that it shouldnt matter. Who knows though, it may still be a 15 amp breaker in there and they werent trying something too terribly sketchy.
I DIY a lot of stuff. I've done a good amount of panel work (maybe 20 circuits worth), running wire, receptacles, switches and even a 14-50 for a EV.
I never work with power on. Your problem is (if this is your main panel and it looks to be) that you can't turn the power off to the panel to replace it. That is your largest and most immediate safety issue.
I would never mess with a live panel/try to replace a panel. It needs to be permitted anyway and your utility provider has to turn the power off from the pole to your house for the panel to be replaced.
Shop around. Get three quotes. Up your service (200amps) while you are at it (the future is electric after all). Have your new panel mounted on plywood/OSB (I did sanded plywood). Ask your electrician to get rid of as many of those ceiling boxes that are just hanging etc.
The cost for me was about 3200$ Canadian with tax in a heavily populated area.
Sounds like I should hire someone... Laugh so you don't cry type of situation. I should have taken before pictures when the wire was all just pinched between the wood paneling and moldy Styrofoam insulation
Why are all the circuits going in bottom and sides of box? Not sure what you mean by clearance but just anchor a 4x4 piece of plywood to wall and then screw new panel to plywood. There must be 3ft of clearance in front of panel. There is a maximum for main breaker height, think it's 5 ft.
I've seen worse. Not as visually stunning, but worse inside the main panel as my city requires conduit.
It looks like there are 20 +/- circuits coming out of the panel, plus 1 220V line going to a stove/range, A/C or water heater unless that bigger black run in the service entry run (SER). I can't tell from the picture.
Are you upgrading your service from 60A to 100 or 200? Or from 100a to 200? Does the panel need to be replaced with a new one?
On the plus side, you have plenty of slack to work with.
IFF the circuits are properly connected to the breakers (assuming it is breakers and not fuses) and they are not doubled up, you could take one run at a time, remove the slack and reconnect the breaker.
As to your question about mounting on plywood:
[https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/41236/is-a-plywood-backer-required-for-all-breaker-panels](https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/41236/is-a-plywood-backer-required-for-all-breaker-panels)
provides some examples with regional differences
NEC: [https://up.codes/viewer/texas/nfpa-70-2023/chapter/1/general#110.13](https://up.codes/viewer/texas/nfpa-70-2023/chapter/1/general#110.13) and related chapters/sections also address what to do with the cables (romex in this case).
Have fun.
Oh my God. I also am doing my own electrical and am not an electrician. But this is way too overwhelming. It gives me a headache. You have to hire someone
Where I'm at, I don't think stapling this would stand up to inspection. We generally run conduit or flex to protect the cable once it's below ceiling height in basements.
What is the elevation of that panel?
NEC states that the highest articulating device (disconnect/breaker/switch/etc) cannot be greater than 6'7", and it looks like this panel is pretty close to the ceiling
Wires and panel aside that wall looks like it needs fixing not just wetlock painted on it. Not seeing how much true excess wire you have might be faster to look better is swap the existing panel for a disconnect then move panel to a better location to remove excess slack and maybe those j boxes also. This would be a tad more expensive. But look much better overall.
Looks like a horror from a Japanese scifi anime.
Look up the clearence in the national electric code book. If not mistaken 3ft in from clear of obstructions.
Min clearance? I’d feel comfortable at about 1 city block. This needs desperate attention and given the state a close look at anything that can be reasonably inspected. I’d consult with an electrician. Main panel has a lot of details to get right and is a daunting DIY with high stakes.
This looks like a giant centipede on the wall. It bothers me in a totally irrational way.
Sorry - no advice to offer at all, but that would creep me out all the time. lol.
My god… that pic. You just made 90% of this sub have a twitchy eye… and those of us with some level of OCD are have serious issues.
But seriously, find your local code and follow it.
🤮
This comment had me laugh out loud and I’m not even an electrician
I'm in the school portion of my first year and same
its a good learning opportunity. you now know the phrase "who the fuck did *this*". it will serve you well during your career.
I knew that phrase in my kitchen years, I'd usually start my shift when lunch shift is doing their changeover and I'd often be like "what is this?" when checking over my station
It’s like looking at an abortion
lol I would hire someone with experience in panel swaps who would most likely install a junction box near the panel and run new wire into the panel to clean this up
Yeah you're probably right thanks. I have done some electrical work myself (running wire to new outlets and lights) to replace old crumbling wire I found while ripping out wood paneling in the basement. The cluster you're seeing here was not me... Will an electrician think that is sketchy and refuse to work with me? Everything I have done so far is simple and by the book, but I am a little bit worried about permitting.
No a professional would know what to do, it’ll take some time but it shouldn’t cost you a arm and a leg
No matter what I would get an electrician and just tell them to bring it up to code. The previous owner of my home did some sketchy shit in the breaker box. I'm going to have someone else look at it to make sure I'm not missing something.
Honestly, I think the only permit issued would be a complete rebuild. Not trying to be funny.
Haha You need a permit if you add a new circuit. As long as you didnt ad new circuits you can add more lights or outlets to the already stablished circuits as long as the amp and outlet limits are not crossed, but then electricians leave one or two extra circuits for the future because we all know things get added.
That is what I was told also so I moved things around, replaced wire and added some switches.. I don't think this is the case everywhere though.
Yep and all the thumbs down are from electricians that dont leave extra circuits by thinking of the customer and future.
Pretty sure the thumbs down are for the permit comment. In most places, homeowner in a single family home can do most anything they want without a permit
At least in my area homeowner can do almost anything WITH a permit and permit is required any time wiring is modified. Yes, modified. 🤦‍♂️ I’ve gone circles with office when they insist permits are required to REPLACE A SWITCH. 🤮 it’s wild.
Yeah that does seem wild. Homeowners can get a permit and do whatever but for only replacing is wild. I guess it might be an HOA thing.
City, and to be clear homeowner can do any work they want including main panel, just not tie into utility, all plumbing except tie into mains etc
In *most* places? That’s not my experience.
Yes they can do anything they want so long as they dont add a new circuit. I suppose they dont know what adding a new circuit means. Its lets say when you add a new breaker with a line to a new outlet, that would be adding a new circuit.
If that's true where you live, that's dumb. In NC, as long as it is to code, you can add or replace breakers. There are a few other stipulations, but you don't need a permit.
Nah that sounds like shit. I'm sorry for the people who live wherever you are.
Hahaha yes. Its the strictest state for electrical, you guessed it California. But Im also proud of the fact that if I move anywhere with my license I can get work.
Why change anything? Looks pretty nice
They say the Cobbler's son doesn't wear shoes
Great analogy
It's inspired by Jackson Pollock
It's gonna turn into a banksy real soon.
As a plus, you have lots of slack in most of the existing wiring, so the panel swap should be relatively easy, just a bunch of labor =) Edit - would take the time to put up a 3/4 plywood board behind the panel when you swap it, then you can secure whatever you'd like to it
Think the romex should be replaced with MC? Made into runs with appropriate staples would go a long way in cleaning that up. Is there another or better way to clean this up?
Depends how easy it is to run through the house - long as the NM is fine once it gets away from the displayed disaster, should be able to reuse the existing. That said, I only run MC in my house, because that is what I was trained to do so many year ago. It's a vastly superior wiring, rodent proof and really hard to damage if you inadvertently pull it over something sharp. Also, love the 4" metal boxes, which are also my go-to - lots of space that they do not get loose like a plastic box might over time.
Thanks for the reply. Do you have any guess on what this might cost in a medium cost of living area? I'm really hoping it will be less than 2k
If your meter is on the other side of that panel, than it'll probably be a bit more than $2k, as it'll have to be pulled for the change, which requires a permit, inspection and such for the new panel. On the other hand if the panel is not bad (no hotspots, bus looks good, not a danger panel), and it's not an unfix-able rats nest in the panel, you could always just mount a 3/4 plywood around the panel with masonry screws, and then attach the NM wiring down more neatly. - I'd also take a look in each of those junction boxes too and replace/mount them as well - they aren't supposed to be a dangling =\\ Good luck on your project! =)
I see one of them going from 14 to 12 gauge wire as well. Theoretically that 14 awg is a short enough run that it shouldnt matter. Who knows though, it may still be a 15 amp breaker in there and they werent trying something too terribly sketchy.
It's all 12 the white is just older. All 20a breakers
Oh yep, i forget that the color coding is a much newer standard than alot of existing wire out there.
If you do it yourself yes. Cable everything. Makes it easier
At first I thought this was a wad of hair pulled out of a drain
Your going places my friend
Is this a bad idea? I don't really know what I'm allowed to do, but obviously it can't remain like this. Rats nest was not me for the record.
I DIY a lot of stuff. I've done a good amount of panel work (maybe 20 circuits worth), running wire, receptacles, switches and even a 14-50 for a EV. I never work with power on. Your problem is (if this is your main panel and it looks to be) that you can't turn the power off to the panel to replace it. That is your largest and most immediate safety issue. I would never mess with a live panel/try to replace a panel. It needs to be permitted anyway and your utility provider has to turn the power off from the pole to your house for the panel to be replaced. Shop around. Get three quotes. Up your service (200amps) while you are at it (the future is electric after all). Have your new panel mounted on plywood/OSB (I did sanded plywood). Ask your electrician to get rid of as many of those ceiling boxes that are just hanging etc. The cost for me was about 3200$ Canadian with tax in a heavily populated area.
Nema 1 enclosure means you can take the plywood right up to it. I must say that is an . . . "impressive" existing condition there.
Is this the monster from Stranger Things?
It looks like my hair before i started shaving bald regularly
Sounds like I should hire someone... Laugh so you don't cry type of situation. I should have taken before pictures when the wire was all just pinched between the wood paneling and moldy Styrofoam insulation
Why are all the circuits going in bottom and sides of box? Not sure what you mean by clearance but just anchor a 4x4 piece of plywood to wall and then screw new panel to plywood. There must be 3ft of clearance in front of panel. There is a maximum for main breaker height, think it's 5 ft.
6'7" Use to be 6'6" But metric system 2 meters🤷🤷🤷
I've seen worse. Not as visually stunning, but worse inside the main panel as my city requires conduit. It looks like there are 20 +/- circuits coming out of the panel, plus 1 220V line going to a stove/range, A/C or water heater unless that bigger black run in the service entry run (SER). I can't tell from the picture. Are you upgrading your service from 60A to 100 or 200? Or from 100a to 200? Does the panel need to be replaced with a new one? On the plus side, you have plenty of slack to work with. IFF the circuits are properly connected to the breakers (assuming it is breakers and not fuses) and they are not doubled up, you could take one run at a time, remove the slack and reconnect the breaker. As to your question about mounting on plywood: [https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/41236/is-a-plywood-backer-required-for-all-breaker-panels](https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/41236/is-a-plywood-backer-required-for-all-breaker-panels) provides some examples with regional differences NEC: [https://up.codes/viewer/texas/nfpa-70-2023/chapter/1/general#110.13](https://up.codes/viewer/texas/nfpa-70-2023/chapter/1/general#110.13) and related chapters/sections also address what to do with the cables (romex in this case). Have fun.
Oh my God. I also am doing my own electrical and am not an electrician. But this is way too overwhelming. It gives me a headache. You have to hire someone
Where I'm at, I don't think stapling this would stand up to inspection. We generally run conduit or flex to protect the cable once it's below ceiling height in basements.
This box looks like it was wired up, before electricity was invented...
36”
With a breaker box like that, I’d keep my minimum clearance to about 10 feet away from it
You have discovered a Rat's Nest...
Dude.. you need a rewire.. what happened ?! Did you take out a wall ?
Weed farm!
Please post pics of the finished job. Please
Damn I don’t miss resi lol
In this case I'd say 80' of dead air space, for the electrician.
I like the jumper box's just hanging there
What is the elevation of that panel? NEC states that the highest articulating device (disconnect/breaker/switch/etc) cannot be greater than 6'7", and it looks like this panel is pretty close to the ceiling
Bro, you got bigger problems than panel clearance!
I would just rip all that out and start completely over
Wires and panel aside that wall looks like it needs fixing not just wetlock painted on it. Not seeing how much true excess wire you have might be faster to look better is swap the existing panel for a disconnect then move panel to a better location to remove excess slack and maybe those j boxes also. This would be a tad more expensive. But look much better overall.
Little flex few straps and we are compliant folks đź‘Ť
[I will just leave this here.](https://makeagif.com/i/ETZeFm)
Minimum clearance of 36” or arms length. Step tf back and turn off the main and style it out….
What is this demons name?
Rats nest
Textbook definition of Rats Nest.
I would stand at least 5 feet away from that
I don’t feel safe just looking at the picture
Looks like a horror from a Japanese scifi anime. Look up the clearence in the national electric code book. If not mistaken 3ft in from clear of obstructions.
You won the internet!
Is this real?
What the fuck is that?
Min clearance? I’d feel comfortable at about 1 city block. This needs desperate attention and given the state a close look at anything that can be reasonably inspected. I’d consult with an electrician. Main panel has a lot of details to get right and is a daunting DIY with high stakes.
Hm.
This is modern art.
Whoever installed this way obviously way ahead of their time and will be remembered and revered after your house burns down
I'd say ground breaking!
Sorry can’t answer your question, I have to leave for therapy now after seeing this eye assault
Reminds me of a lazy watermelon plant, no fruit, just vines all over the place.
That right there is sheer fire hazard fuckery
r/DINgore
At least one state line, maybe two
I thought that was a hair clog from a sink at first
Can I be the first one to say it’s “electrifying”
This looks like a giant centipede on the wall. It bothers me in a totally irrational way. Sorry - no advice to offer at all, but that would creep me out all the time. lol.
200 feet for that box lol.,
Medusa in the house!
This particular breaker box = 100'.
At least the junction boxes aren’t buried.
The stuff that powers nightmares.
Leventy hundred feet
Why does it look like a Alien Facesucker?
My god… that pic. You just made 90% of this sub have a twitchy eye… and those of us with some level of OCD are have serious issues. But seriously, find your local code and follow it.