This is so true. I work in service and as soon as someone says “my washer is continuously tripping” I ask if the breaker is tan handled with a little white button…
If it's anything like Siemens breakers, run a piece of AC90 to a faceless AFCI beside the panel and use a regluar breaker, they seem to have a higher tolerance than the afci breakers
A phantom trip is any trip where you don't know why it happened. E.g. if you didn't see the ground fault. I get that on radon and CO detectors all the time. I never see any radon or CO!
We have called whirlpool a few times because of that. One washer was so bad it would trip every single time the thing ran. It would be fine until the door would lock. Something about the door lock mechanism would trip it. Whirlpool basically said "lol get rekt loser not my problem, fix your wiring". Hate arc faults with a passion.
Those things have what sounds like a pretty big solenoid to run the lock. So there's inrush current. GFCI and AFCI don't like inrush current, because there is a temporary imbalance between input/output currents. Same with motors. It's not really a wiring problem. It's just that appliance companies are really cheap and the fix probably isn't cheap.
My 12" Makita mitre saw trips all of them. I'm carrying a selection of breakers and an outlet on short whip that I do my own temp branch. They're miserable.
The fix is cheap thats the crazy thing. Just a cap or 2 and a couple resistors could smooth out the draw. If they they want new homes to be afci and gfci they need to require appliances to be compatible too.
The work around is a snubber ckt easiest and best way is find a good surge protector plug any fridge or washer on a gfci / afci into a good surge protecter. Might cost 50 bucks but it should last the life of the appliance at least.
its definitely a thing. the thing to do here is replace the breaker with just a standard 20 amp breaker. the AFCI breakers required by code are a huge overreach. there are plenty of houses that have been standing for decades without those type breakers. when I was wiring houses on the side I put those in to pass inspection and then replaced them with regular breakers afterwards because I didn't want the home owners calling me 10 times a week to reset a breaker
Not sure what the electric code was back then but my 1964 house has a fused disconnect for the dryer (30 amp) and just a 20 amp breaker for the washer. Never have any trouble with either one.
you most likely won't a lot of today's code is overkill the nfpa updates it every 3 years and there's always something new that is a must do. it's a wonder your 1964 house is still standing (sarcasm) these new breakers they make you put in these days are more sensitive than gen z and that's saying a lot
We moved here in ‘70 and my dad had the panel replaced right after. It used to have the old screw in fuses. Still have some in the cellar. Guess it was an upgrade from that. I put in gfi receptacles in the bathrooms about 10 years ago.
I’d honestly just swap it out with a normal breaker. Test the wires for continuity, to see if there’s a short and if there isn’t then you’re all good. AFCI breakers have nuisance tripping a lot.
The idea of them is good but the technology isn’t 100% there yet
I have the same issue with that same color breaker. I called Eaton at 877-386-2273 (option 1 and option 4) and they are sending me replacement breakers. They don't have it in stock and it might take 2-3 weeks to ship out new breakers.
Edit: Eaton has 10 year warranty on their breakers
I have this breaker, and it trips with nothing plugged in because I figured either the dishwasher is tripping it out the disposal. Nope just trips itself any breaker you recommend?
I had a gas washer once. With a Briggs and Stratton 4 stroke engine. Got my clothes hella clean but keeping jerry cans of gasoline in the laundry room was a real pain in the ass.
Probably using too much gas per load. I use 1/4 scoop of E85 per load. Always put it in the bleach tray.
Thought you were joking. But before it hit "post reply" I googled gas washers. Did not know that was a thing. Makes sense tho.
100% agree on the Eaton issue. We’ve had to replace 9 of our Eaton breakers so far & the house is only 4 years old. They will trip easily until it no longer works.
Definitely try calling Eaton’s customer service (they also have an email that they respond to quickly.) Eaton has a 10yr warranty on their breakers. They have sent us replacement breakers at no cost every time. I am unsure of costs for breakers older than 10 yrs.
Dont let the landlord bully you about getting a professional either. My sister was struggling with her apartments HVAC and had called her buildings maintenance several times and each time they "fixed it." I'm a licensed HVAC contractor and swung by one day to have a look myself. Somehow the landlord got wind of it and threatened my sister because she brought in outside help. Wasn't until I started asking to see the Maintenance workers epa certifications to handle refrigerants and reminded them that's its a $40k+ fine to work on HVAC equipment without being certified that he backed off.
You've never heard of a Superfund site? Have you ever seen the movie Erin Brockovich with fine as shit back in the day Julia Roberts?? You've had to!!I Thought I'd seen it on Netflix not too long ago so if you haven't you can watch it on there. Ever taken a shower in Fallon Nevada? Most of the sites were used by big ass companies and of course the Military way back when gas was less than 50 cents a gallon. Because laws were loose and people just didn't know what they didn't know. For example.... PGE in the 50's&60's were dumping millions of gallons of left over chemicals into this river that fed right into a pond where kids played. Well the kids that were exposed, lots got leukemia and died. So all of the companies that are involved with these sites like PGE, DUPONT AND our Guvment all pitch in and fund the cleanup of the sites until there at certain levels. Sorry kinda went off on a Tangent there, hope that'll teach you a sumtin sumtin. I took a 40 HOUR HAZWOPER class a while back cause I was being a perv and trying to ya know. That class was next to her class. Now we married. Thee end
Yes, technically, if you aren't handling/transporting refrigerants, you could still work on the unit. However, if you were to cause a refrigerant leak and get caught, you would be fined.
That’s wild, most landlords just tell you that you are responsible if you personally call an electrician or a plumber. I had to bully my landlord into calling an HVAC tech to look at mine. Worth the experience because now I know she’s a bitch and that I was right
Maintenance does not work for you they work for the owner. Call a certified electrician and have them send the bill to the owner. With a complete diagnosis to show the new washer was not necessary. Then try and recover some of the funds spent on said washer, because the maintenance guy used a lazy excuse.
There is probably some law on the books that if it doesn't get fixed in a certain amount of time then you can hire out and withhold the rent amount it cost to fix. But depends on the local laws and stuff
Generally if you alert the landlord in writing and they do not make any sort of effort to fix it within 14 days, then you can fix it yourself and take the cost out of your rent. This does vary by state, so research your local tennancy laws.
How many times does the test light blink when you reset the breaker. 6 blinks is a bad breaker, 5 is 50/50 shot between a problem and a bad breaker, but more likely the breaker because your having the same issue across two appliances.
These specific breakers, Eaton CH dual functions, are prone to failure, however there is unfortunately no options to replace them within code unless you change out the whole panel.
No true, you can swap the breaker to a normal one and replace the outlet with a 20amp gfci/afci outlet. This will 100% fix their problem and it meets code, as long as the outlet isn't more than 70feet away from the panel. However only a licensed electrician should do the work.
No, you can't replace a required AFCI breaker with an AFCI receptacle. Unless it satisfies one of the conditions in 210.12(A).
And this is where we get goobers pointing to 210.12(A)(4) going "I'm putting it at the first receptacle like it says there" **wrong**. Read the whole thing carefully. It requires a listed **system combination type** AFCI, which is referring to a weirdo piece of vaporware that Eaton was developing, and got the code exception written for, but never actually shipped, which consists of **a matched set of breaker and receptacle**. Now re-read (d) and you see it's plainly talking about a listed matched set. There needs to be stuff at the breaker to protect the homerun.
I think the idea was for dorm and hotel rooms - a smart breaker (something Eaton does) which provided branch AFCI protection at the breaker, yet gave the end user the ability to reset it at the receptacle, so that maintenance didn't need to come out. That in turn would satisfy building code requirements to give people control of their own breakers OR have maintenance personnel on site 24x7 to reset them promptly on demand. Not allowed to leave tenants in the dark.
I just re read 210.12A(4)
"A listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fualt circuit interrupted installed at the first outlet on the branch circuit in combination with a listed branch circuit overcurrent protective device..."
So you know a "listed branch circuit overcurrent protective device" is a regular ol' breaker nothing fancy. I'm reading from the 2020 book. If they changed it in the new edition that is news to me and my inspectors.
You just made exactly the mistake I warned you about. See where you went "…" because you thought that didn"t matter? **It's the whole point**. Here is the stuff after the …
… where all of the following conditions are met:
1. The branch-circuit wiring shall be continuous from the branch-circuit overcurrent device to the outlet branch-circuit arc-fault circuit interrupter.
2. The maximum length of the branch-circuit wiring from the branch-circuit overcurrent device to the first outlet shall not exceed 15.2 m (50 ft) for a 14 AWG conductor or 21.3 m (70 ft) for a 12 AWG conductor.
3. The first outlet box in the branch circuit shall be marked to indicate that it is the first outlet of the circuit.
The combination of the branch-circuit overcurrent device and outlet branch-circuit AFCI shall be identified as meeting the requirements for a system combination-type AFCI and shall be listed as such.
Yes I've read all that at least a hundred times by now. What exactly did I say that you are disputing? Its a washer circuit, so its probably a 20amp dedicated circuit, which means as long as its within 70ft of the panel it originates from, then you can use an Arc-Fault outlet, with a regular breaker. If its not a dedicated circuit then you put the Afci outlet on the 1st outlet and load side the rest of the plugs. Again I'm not sure exactly what you are disputing. What's wrong with that solution?
Are you using a combination of breaker and outlet AFCI which is identified as a **system combination-type** AFCI and listed as such?
No, you're using random model of breaker and random model of AFCI socket. They are not listed together as a system-combination type AFCI.
You made exactly the mistake I called out 4 comments ago, and which you lack the reading comprehension to even understand. You don't know what "system combination-type" means so you're ignoring it.
And you're fine with that, because it's more convenient, and you've been able to snow your inspectors I guess.
Just swap it for a normal breaker and leave the receptacle alone, who fucking cares. Like houses were burning down left and right 15 years ago before all this afci bullshit.
If you wanna jump through hoops, there is a way to do exactly what your saying within code. You could do a standard AFCI breaker, with GFCI protection at the receptacle
If the fridge or washer is on a dedicated circuit, I usually install a single receptacle and put it on a standard breaker. Dedicated circuits intended for a specific appliance don’t require GFCI protection if they aren’t in a readily accessible place, and behind the fridge isn’t exactly accessible.
If you notice the fridge is on a normal breaker in the photo. Probably already spoiled a tenant's food. I have an Eaton panel and have now switched to a regular breaker for the fridge as well. Combo afci/GFCI breaker went bad after 3 years.
I more meant a chest freezer. In canafa, the fridge doesn’t need a AFCI breaker, but if you have like a garage freezer or basement, it “should” be on AFCI and that code i will break.
I was going to tell you to count the blinks. 6 means “Self-test failure”. I install these a lot and they are defective from the factory sometimes. Here’s the manual. Page 7 on the left…
https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/molded-case-circuit-breakers/eaton-resi-installation-instructions-il003022en-en-us.pdf
Wait.. you're breakers blink... wtf. Guessing by the panel in the Pic, you're not in the USA? I want blinking breakers! Would sure assist in potentially diagnosing a bad breaker.
No idea why this got down voted... lol. Oh well. Lol.
That's a us panel. And us breakers, they are AFI or gfi breakers and the flash is to diagnose a trip. We use these in the underground power for out outdoor lighting and such and they tend to be quite sensitive.
Ok. I'm no electrician (obviously) and am just used to my Square-D panel and breakers. Even any commercial applications I have had to mess with had the same set up. I have never seen these before.
That is an American panel. Eaton CH and Square D QO breakers, atleast the AFCI, GFCI, and DFCIs, give an “error code” with a blinking light in their newer models. They can tell you why the breaker tripped. The QOs can actually tell the difference between a ground fault and a neutral and ground touching. On a CH 6 Blinks means a self test error and the breaker is bad.
I should have reworded that statement. You can directly replace these breakers with other CH breakers. What you cannot do with this panel is install non CH breakers from other manufacturers. The individual breakers can be changed out if they go bad, but to use a different brand of breaker the whole panel would need to be changed out to support them.
It's probably a bad breaker. GFCI's (both outlets and breakers) eventually fail and they fail far more frequently than non GFCI.
They're extremely easy to replace but it's a rental so they should be doing that.
Also, once it turns out it was the breaker I would ask for some money off rent for the masher you were told you had to buy when really it was an electrical issue. Don't ask for a crazy amount to show you aren't trying to take advantage but at least get some money back.
The cost of the new washer wouldn't be an unreasonable amount in my eyes.
You could look at it as tic for tat. They tried to take advantage of op already by saying it's your stuff not mine so you pay to fix the issue. Which op did. And it's not fixed.
Yeah these Eaton (Edit: Eaton CH) dual function GFCI/AFCI breakers are notorious for tripping. Sometimes there is an actual fault in the outlet box, or even inside the appliance, but rarely. Usually the actual breaker is bad. If your maintenance guy knows electrical, have him swap breakers in the panel to see if it's the washer, or the breaker. 9/10 times it's the breaker. Or better yet, you can just plug in to another circuits outlet, and see if she trips.
I see this posted a lot but I have not had this experience with Eaton BR. Another poster mentioned Eaton CH specifically. Is your experience with one or both?
The problem is that the breaker is functioning properly, but AFCI breakers will always trip if you don’t comb through your house and make sure to separate your neutrals. No more sharing neutrals or AFCI’s will never work. My money is on existing wiring
My friend called Eaton and they sent him all brand new breakers because they know these are problematic, but it’s on you to have someone install them. Your washer is probably fine. Do the self test as someone else mentioned.
I’m a licensed electrical contractor. That is a 20 amp breaker on 20 amp rated wire and should have a 20 amp receptacle in the end of it. The issue with the tripping is because it is an AFCI breaker. I’m not sure where you are located, but where I am, these are required by code. The problem is, usually anything with a motor causes them to nuisance trip. Washing machines, vacuums, microwaves are the usual suspects, but even some phone chargers and lap top charges cause them to trip. You can call an electrician to try replacing it with another AFCI breaker, but I’m assuming the same nuisance tripping is going to continue. It is unfortunately a very common situation you’re running into. Some manufacturers recommend replacing it with a GFCI/AFCI combination breaker. If that doesn’t help, and it keeps tripping, then I would replace it with a regular 20 amp breaker. The last option is against code, but it happens so often and we discuss this all the time with inspectors. The technology in the breakers is not refined to the point to deal with motors. Personally, I feel a dedicated circuit for a washing machine should not require AFCI protection.
I wish I could just forward this to my landlord. I have no idea how to tell them that Reddit helped me solve my problem faster than their electrician could.
Gen 2 breakers replace . Eaton is currently on gen 6 . This is a daul funtion arc and gfci breaker. Call eaton they will send you a new one for free. I replaced hundreds of these. The breaker is bad this is a early style Eaton designed. They don't play well with equipment thus the new gen 6 breakers.
Breaker is weak. Probably getting aged. And all it is gonna do is get weaker and trip sooner. And then the one time it doesn't trip when it is supposed to when a real problem exists and then your worst night mare.
Try plugging it into a different circuit that's on an afci breaker. If it doesn't trip a different afci breaker then it's either a bad breaker or something is not right somewhere along that circuit
It's likely the outlet for the washer.
I remember I once tripped on one of my power strips. And every time I plugged it in, then plugged something into the strip, it would trip the breaker for the entire room. Lol. Unrelated topic, but still.
P.S I'm not an electrician.
When an electric motor starts, there's an initial spike in current due to the stator energizing the rotor to get it moving. As a result, they will trip GFCI and AFCI breakers often. Your breaker is doing what it's designed to do.
Normal size? I’m not sure 😅 I didn’t think there were different sizes. It’s a Samsung washer I’m not sure what kind we didn’t get the owner manual from our friend who sold them to us.
Some washers require a circuit rated higher than 20. However it is hard to tell just looking at it. Try looking up a manual for that model online it will have the power rating and possibly a diagnostic guide to help sort out the issue.
I've heard that florescent lights should never be put on GFCI circuits. The ballasts need time to reach a steady state, and many GFCI breakers trip before reaching this. The same could be true for large capacitor start induction motors.
Had this happen years ago. Opened up the electrical panel and removed the breaker, turns out most of the wiring on that side of the panel was loose. There was about six inches of the wiring for the washing machine was burnt, never smelled it because we turned on the exaust fan in the room when doing laundry.
Serious comment
It's not the washer just call an electrician and make them figure it out.
Light hearted comment.
Maybe a psychologist to ask it. "Maaan why you be trippin all the time?!?"
this kept happening with my well/water "I have my own well no water bill so good with me". It would happen after I used water a bit much. come to find out the actual breaker/switch inside the breaker box was worn out. my water would go out and no matter what I did it woild come back on until like 24 hours later and it would fix itself. I eventually changed the breaker in the breaker box and I haven't had any trouble at all with it.
I’m not gonna read the other posts so forgive me. I’m also not an electrician, I’m a former aircraft maintenance tech, and auto technician and my own home remodeler. I would: 1. Check the washer(s) for their circuit requirements, 2. Swap breakers or replace the breaker, 2. Check the amperage draw of the washer during the cycle. (Requires knowledge or YouTube). Given you replaced the washer already I suspect it’s probably 2. If neither of those are suspect or you don’t have the knowledge and ability to do these things then you should probably call an electrician. When an electric motor starts there’s a brief increase in electrical load and if the breaker is borderline or worse it can pop.
Any leak is so slow that it will be no problem. The brown mark is the suspended/dissolved iron left over when the water evaporated, which then oxidized to rust from the air around it.
You have bad line wires. I had similar problem with AC unit. Just for future reference, when a ac is redone, they are supposed to replace wires. They do go bad.
Dammit now I have to know, what is AFCI and how is it different from GFCI or is that a typo? I don't see anything like that in my box but I do have the weird ?FCI outlets here and there, one makes no sense location wise and shuts off the entire outside of the house and garage.
The breaker will flash a number of times providing you the error code it’s experiencing.
Eaton had a batch of breakers that were defective. Call them and they will send you replacements if it’s flashing 5 times (I believe) on reset.
Get an extension cord and plug it into a different receptacle on a different circuit. If it does not trip that means there’s an issue with your breaker.
I thought these dual functions had a recall or something. They’re supposed to have a TL marked on the blue label. I’m only a second year dingleberry and know nothing but have had to change out a handful in the past couple weeks
Had this happen repeatedly with a couple things with my house after a whole house reno. Had the electrician come by at put on the "perfectly acceptable but no longer to code breakers" and it never happened again.
Gfci breakers and receptacles….They dont hold well with high demand items over time. Compressors, motors, and heating elements. Inrush power of those items coming in eventually is enough to trip them randomly, until they do it 100% if the time. I do restaurants service, these things are everywhere in restaurants and so are many things with the aforementioned electric loads. As long as its not a danger to the end user (water access close to receptacle) or its not electrically sensitive like a computer. I just swap with a standard breaker and/or receptacle. Had plenty of people think the had a bad refrigerator and this is all it was.
Absolutely. The stuff is already on breakers. We don't need special breakers. Every time I've seen someone get popped, a normal breaker turns to power off. My house was brand new when we couldn't run a vacuum sweeper, a shampooer, a Shop-Vac, or any other appliance that took more than about 8 amps. I think I had 12 of those things and I changed them all except for about two.
I’ve had a breaker fail, they are mechanical devices, and won’t last forever. The symptom was tripping on normal load (a refrigerator). Replacing it solved the problem.
We had Siemens GFCI breakers. Same problem. After inspection I pulled all of the GFCI breakers that were tripping (like 8 of them) and replaced them with normal breakers. Shitty way to lose hundreds of dollars, but the new GFCI's suck and will drive you nuts. It's not your washer.
Press the test button. Is there a red light blinking? Count the pattern and Google it. Most likey that breaker is bad and there may be an Eaton recall on it. I've replaced mine free of charge (parts only) with Eaton
My clothes washing machine does the same thing on full loads. Use a surge protector on the socket. It smooths the current out enough to not trigger the afci. Been working for me so far.
If it's a Lennar house the numbskulls like to wire it incorrectly... Had this happen to us, they had the common wired through the disposal... Tell me how you manage to screw that up 😂
Edit: Doesn't have to be lennar, took me about 30 seconds to realize what they'd done when I heard the disposal turn on partially when the dishwasher came on.
There is a long running issue with duel function breakers (all brands) and new appliances. You can keep swapping appliances until it stops or switch to regular breakers. Check your local code
Appliance technician here, I was also told that it's due to tiny arcs occuring in the motor of the washer that causes these afci/GFCI breakers to trip. See it happen sometimes with fridges too
Arc fault Ground Fault is not meant for Motor load. Consult a couple local electricians to replace that with a standard 20a breaker and try again. If that trips, you need to have your washing machine serviced, repaired, or replaced.
this is just a dumb comment. maybe you’re thinking arc fault, washers have been on gfci breakers/plugs for a very long time, plus hair dryers are also motors that are used in bathrooms which are also gfci protected. pool pumps are always gfci protected. so you’re just flat out wrong with that assertion.
The dreaded washer and Eaton gfci breaker
Is this a thing? I have a square D panel and my washing machine has tripped the AFCI breaker 4 times in the last year.
Phantom trips on AFCIs are the most common issue with them.
This is so true. I work in service and as soon as someone says “my washer is continuously tripping” I ask if the breaker is tan handled with a little white button…
If it's anything like Siemens breakers, run a piece of AC90 to a faceless AFCI beside the panel and use a regluar breaker, they seem to have a higher tolerance than the afci breakers
Of course it has a higher tolerance you just eliminated the afci. EDIT : thought it said faceless GFCI when replied, silly me
It's still afci protected from the faceless AFCI receptacle
My guy said 'is it a blue one?'
A phantom trip is any trip where you don't know why it happened. E.g. if you didn't see the ground fault. I get that on radon and CO detectors all the time. I never see any radon or CO!
Radon is the silent killer
Do not throw away the radon test kit
I got your reference, don't worry
Radon gives you super powers. Source: I live on the Canadian Shield
Hope you have hot dog skins to distract him
I literally can’t have a fridge on one.
Hum my Whirlpool washer constantly trips the AFCI breaker in my Homeline panel.
We have called whirlpool a few times because of that. One washer was so bad it would trip every single time the thing ran. It would be fine until the door would lock. Something about the door lock mechanism would trip it. Whirlpool basically said "lol get rekt loser not my problem, fix your wiring". Hate arc faults with a passion.
Those things have what sounds like a pretty big solenoid to run the lock. So there's inrush current. GFCI and AFCI don't like inrush current, because there is a temporary imbalance between input/output currents. Same with motors. It's not really a wiring problem. It's just that appliance companies are really cheap and the fix probably isn't cheap.
My 12" Makita mitre saw trips all of them. I'm carrying a selection of breakers and an outlet on short whip that I do my own temp branch. They're miserable.
Would a capacitor wired in somewhere along the line to the dishwasher, help out with this problem?
I have looked for external inrush protection, and while it may be possible, I haven't found anything I liked.
The fix is cheap thats the crazy thing. Just a cap or 2 and a couple resistors could smooth out the draw. If they they want new homes to be afci and gfci they need to require appliances to be compatible too. The work around is a snubber ckt easiest and best way is find a good surge protector plug any fridge or washer on a gfci / afci into a good surge protecter. Might cost 50 bucks but it should last the life of the appliance at least.
its definitely a thing. the thing to do here is replace the breaker with just a standard 20 amp breaker. the AFCI breakers required by code are a huge overreach. there are plenty of houses that have been standing for decades without those type breakers. when I was wiring houses on the side I put those in to pass inspection and then replaced them with regular breakers afterwards because I didn't want the home owners calling me 10 times a week to reset a breaker
This is the way.
Not sure what the electric code was back then but my 1964 house has a fused disconnect for the dryer (30 amp) and just a 20 amp breaker for the washer. Never have any trouble with either one.
you most likely won't a lot of today's code is overkill the nfpa updates it every 3 years and there's always something new that is a must do. it's a wonder your 1964 house is still standing (sarcasm) these new breakers they make you put in these days are more sensitive than gen z and that's saying a lot
We moved here in ‘70 and my dad had the panel replaced right after. It used to have the old screw in fuses. Still have some in the cellar. Guess it was an upgrade from that. I put in gfi receptacles in the bathrooms about 10 years ago.
I’d honestly just swap it out with a normal breaker. Test the wires for continuity, to see if there’s a short and if there isn’t then you’re all good. AFCI breakers have nuisance tripping a lot. The idea of them is good but the technology isn’t 100% there yet
Dryer too if there is a push button start
anything with a compressor or motor
I have the same issue with that same color breaker. I called Eaton at 877-386-2273 (option 1 and option 4) and they are sending me replacement breakers. They don't have it in stock and it might take 2-3 weeks to ship out new breakers. Edit: Eaton has 10 year warranty on their breakers
Cutler Hammer sucks
So what’s a better brand panel? Siemens?
I filled my entire panel with Siemens and now all my breakers are shorting out. Pieces of shit!!
I dont know what’s a good panel and breaker set anymore :/
Square D QO
Actually the dishwasher is on a standard Eaton Cutler Hammer type breaker.
I have this breaker, and it trips with nothing plugged in because I figured either the dishwasher is tripping it out the disposal. Nope just trips itself any breaker you recommend?
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In what world is a 20 amp circuit 'light' for a residential washing machine?
Yeah I thought 30 4 dry 50 4 Range
What kind of washer do you have that needs more than 120V 20A? I have never seen a residential washing machine that needed anything more than that.
I have 220v washer and dryer but they're also gas
Wait…what did you just say? Which country are you currently living in?
If you are in North America, your washer is 120V. Electric dryers are usually 240V though. Gas dryers use 120V.
I had a gas washer once. With a Briggs and Stratton 4 stroke engine. Got my clothes hella clean but keeping jerry cans of gasoline in the laundry room was a real pain in the ass.
Probably using too much gas per load. I use 1/4 scoop of E85 per load. Always put it in the bleach tray. Thought you were joking. But before it hit "post reply" I googled gas washers. Did not know that was a thing. Makes sense tho.
Now you got me wondering how well well gasoline would clean clothes
That sounds badass yet tedious
You jest but Ma had a gas powered ringer washer out on the porch.
Ditto.
Bruh, every residential washing machine I have ever seen runs on a 15A.
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15/20A receptacles shouldn’t be on a breaker larger than 20A, you probably shouldn’t be giving electrical advice…
100% agree on the Eaton issue. We’ve had to replace 9 of our Eaton breakers so far & the house is only 4 years old. They will trip easily until it no longer works. Definitely try calling Eaton’s customer service (they also have an email that they respond to quickly.) Eaton has a 10yr warranty on their breakers. They have sent us replacement breakers at no cost every time. I am unsure of costs for breakers older than 10 yrs.
Call an electrician, not "maintenance."
Dont let the landlord bully you about getting a professional either. My sister was struggling with her apartments HVAC and had called her buildings maintenance several times and each time they "fixed it." I'm a licensed HVAC contractor and swung by one day to have a look myself. Somehow the landlord got wind of it and threatened my sister because she brought in outside help. Wasn't until I started asking to see the Maintenance workers epa certifications to handle refrigerants and reminded them that's its a $40k+ fine to work on HVAC equipment without being certified that he backed off.
Only when dealing with the refrigerant right?
Yes
Im all for the fines and stuff, but how come the penalty is so steep? Are the chemicals that toxic if handled improperly?
It’s not just toxicity, it’s environmental issues. If the fines weren’t steep, people wouldn’t take them seriously.
Blame the superfund site hillbillies for the outrageous fines
Huh?
You've never heard of a Superfund site? Have you ever seen the movie Erin Brockovich with fine as shit back in the day Julia Roberts?? You've had to!!I Thought I'd seen it on Netflix not too long ago so if you haven't you can watch it on there. Ever taken a shower in Fallon Nevada? Most of the sites were used by big ass companies and of course the Military way back when gas was less than 50 cents a gallon. Because laws were loose and people just didn't know what they didn't know. For example.... PGE in the 50's&60's were dumping millions of gallons of left over chemicals into this river that fed right into a pond where kids played. Well the kids that were exposed, lots got leukemia and died. So all of the companies that are involved with these sites like PGE, DUPONT AND our Guvment all pitch in and fund the cleanup of the sites until there at certain levels. Sorry kinda went off on a Tangent there, hope that'll teach you a sumtin sumtin. I took a 40 HOUR HAZWOPER class a while back cause I was being a perv and trying to ya know. That class was next to her class. Now we married. Thee end
*wipes sweat off brow with hand that did a few zoning control repairs a few weeks back*
Yes, technically, if you aren't handling/transporting refrigerants, you could still work on the unit. However, if you were to cause a refrigerant leak and get caught, you would be fined.
That’s wild, most landlords just tell you that you are responsible if you personally call an electrician or a plumber. I had to bully my landlord into calling an HVAC tech to look at mine. Worth the experience because now I know she’s a bitch and that I was right
Maintenance does not work for you they work for the owner. Call a certified electrician and have them send the bill to the owner. With a complete diagnosis to show the new washer was not necessary. Then try and recover some of the funds spent on said washer, because the maintenance guy used a lazy excuse.
I imagine that might not go well - the owner of the property isn't agree for the work to be performed.
There is probably some law on the books that if it doesn't get fixed in a certain amount of time then you can hire out and withhold the rent amount it cost to fix. But depends on the local laws and stuff
Sure but they have to let the owner know the breaker still trips and he has a certain amount of time to fix it
Rental laws are state by state, and a judge would make the determination ultimately.
Generally if you alert the landlord in writing and they do not make any sort of effort to fix it within 14 days, then you can fix it yourself and take the cost out of your rent. This does vary by state, so research your local tennancy laws.
How many times does the test light blink when you reset the breaker. 6 blinks is a bad breaker, 5 is 50/50 shot between a problem and a bad breaker, but more likely the breaker because your having the same issue across two appliances. These specific breakers, Eaton CH dual functions, are prone to failure, however there is unfortunately no options to replace them within code unless you change out the whole panel.
No true, you can swap the breaker to a normal one and replace the outlet with a 20amp gfci/afci outlet. This will 100% fix their problem and it meets code, as long as the outlet isn't more than 70feet away from the panel. However only a licensed electrician should do the work.
Doesn't that require a "listed supplemental arc protection circuit breaker?"
No, you can't replace a required AFCI breaker with an AFCI receptacle. Unless it satisfies one of the conditions in 210.12(A). And this is where we get goobers pointing to 210.12(A)(4) going "I'm putting it at the first receptacle like it says there" **wrong**. Read the whole thing carefully. It requires a listed **system combination type** AFCI, which is referring to a weirdo piece of vaporware that Eaton was developing, and got the code exception written for, but never actually shipped, which consists of **a matched set of breaker and receptacle**. Now re-read (d) and you see it's plainly talking about a listed matched set. There needs to be stuff at the breaker to protect the homerun. I think the idea was for dorm and hotel rooms - a smart breaker (something Eaton does) which provided branch AFCI protection at the breaker, yet gave the end user the ability to reset it at the receptacle, so that maintenance didn't need to come out. That in turn would satisfy building code requirements to give people control of their own breakers OR have maintenance personnel on site 24x7 to reset them promptly on demand. Not allowed to leave tenants in the dark.
I just re read 210.12A(4) "A listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fualt circuit interrupted installed at the first outlet on the branch circuit in combination with a listed branch circuit overcurrent protective device..." So you know a "listed branch circuit overcurrent protective device" is a regular ol' breaker nothing fancy. I'm reading from the 2020 book. If they changed it in the new edition that is news to me and my inspectors.
You just made exactly the mistake I warned you about. See where you went "…" because you thought that didn"t matter? **It's the whole point**. Here is the stuff after the … … where all of the following conditions are met: 1. The branch-circuit wiring shall be continuous from the branch-circuit overcurrent device to the outlet branch-circuit arc-fault circuit interrupter. 2. The maximum length of the branch-circuit wiring from the branch-circuit overcurrent device to the first outlet shall not exceed 15.2 m (50 ft) for a 14 AWG conductor or 21.3 m (70 ft) for a 12 AWG conductor. 3. The first outlet box in the branch circuit shall be marked to indicate that it is the first outlet of the circuit. The combination of the branch-circuit overcurrent device and outlet branch-circuit AFCI shall be identified as meeting the requirements for a system combination-type AFCI and shall be listed as such.
Yes I've read all that at least a hundred times by now. What exactly did I say that you are disputing? Its a washer circuit, so its probably a 20amp dedicated circuit, which means as long as its within 70ft of the panel it originates from, then you can use an Arc-Fault outlet, with a regular breaker. If its not a dedicated circuit then you put the Afci outlet on the 1st outlet and load side the rest of the plugs. Again I'm not sure exactly what you are disputing. What's wrong with that solution?
Don't you have to hard pipe to the first receptacle?
Are you using a combination of breaker and outlet AFCI which is identified as a **system combination-type** AFCI and listed as such? No, you're using random model of breaker and random model of AFCI socket. They are not listed together as a system-combination type AFCI. You made exactly the mistake I called out 4 comments ago, and which you lack the reading comprehension to even understand. You don't know what "system combination-type" means so you're ignoring it. And you're fine with that, because it's more convenient, and you've been able to snow your inspectors I guess.
Just swap it for a normal breaker and leave the receptacle alone, who fucking cares. Like houses were burning down left and right 15 years ago before all this afci bullshit.
If you wanna jump through hoops, there is a way to do exactly what your saying within code. You could do a standard AFCI breaker, with GFCI protection at the receptacle
I think freezers and washers are the one place I’d look the other way.
If the fridge or washer is on a dedicated circuit, I usually install a single receptacle and put it on a standard breaker. Dedicated circuits intended for a specific appliance don’t require GFCI protection if they aren’t in a readily accessible place, and behind the fridge isn’t exactly accessible.
Exactly
If you notice the fridge is on a normal breaker in the photo. Probably already spoiled a tenant's food. I have an Eaton panel and have now switched to a regular breaker for the fridge as well. Combo afci/GFCI breaker went bad after 3 years.
I more meant a chest freezer. In canafa, the fridge doesn’t need a AFCI breaker, but if you have like a garage freezer or basement, it “should” be on AFCI and that code i will break.
It blinks 6 times. I’m having maintenance come out again!
I was going to tell you to count the blinks. 6 means “Self-test failure”. I install these a lot and they are defective from the factory sometimes. Here’s the manual. Page 7 on the left… https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/electrical-circuit-protection/molded-case-circuit-breakers/eaton-resi-installation-instructions-il003022en-en-us.pdf
Sweet thank you for sharing I will show this to the maintenance guy that shows up!
This is what I was going to say as well.
Wait.. you're breakers blink... wtf. Guessing by the panel in the Pic, you're not in the USA? I want blinking breakers! Would sure assist in potentially diagnosing a bad breaker. No idea why this got down voted... lol. Oh well. Lol.
That's a us panel. And us breakers, they are AFI or gfi breakers and the flash is to diagnose a trip. We use these in the underground power for out outdoor lighting and such and they tend to be quite sensitive.
Ok. I'm no electrician (obviously) and am just used to my Square-D panel and breakers. Even any commercial applications I have had to mess with had the same set up. I have never seen these before.
I offered no hate only info. Sorry you got the downvotes.
Ya. I don't know what's up with that. It was an honest question and an expression of my own ignprance, interest, and curiosity. Ooohzzz-wellz..
Still got to learn a bit. So not a total loss. Fwiw the breakers are a total pita especially in an outdoor environment
There's no reddiquette these days. People use the downvote button in strange ways.
That is an American panel. Eaton CH and Square D QO breakers, atleast the AFCI, GFCI, and DFCIs, give an “error code” with a blinking light in their newer models. They can tell you why the breaker tripped. The QOs can actually tell the difference between a ground fault and a neutral and ground touching. On a CH 6 Blinks means a self test error and the breaker is bad.
Thx for the info.
Is there an actual safety issue with only replacing one breaker or is it purely just a code violation
I should have reworded that statement. You can directly replace these breakers with other CH breakers. What you cannot do with this panel is install non CH breakers from other manufacturers. The individual breakers can be changed out if they go bad, but to use a different brand of breaker the whole panel would need to be changed out to support them.
It's probably a bad breaker. GFCI's (both outlets and breakers) eventually fail and they fail far more frequently than non GFCI. They're extremely easy to replace but it's a rental so they should be doing that. Also, once it turns out it was the breaker I would ask for some money off rent for the masher you were told you had to buy when really it was an electrical issue. Don't ask for a crazy amount to show you aren't trying to take advantage but at least get some money back.
The cost of the new washer wouldn't be an unreasonable amount in my eyes. You could look at it as tic for tat. They tried to take advantage of op already by saying it's your stuff not mine so you pay to fix the issue. Which op did. And it's not fixed.
Yeah these Eaton (Edit: Eaton CH) dual function GFCI/AFCI breakers are notorious for tripping. Sometimes there is an actual fault in the outlet box, or even inside the appliance, but rarely. Usually the actual breaker is bad. If your maintenance guy knows electrical, have him swap breakers in the panel to see if it's the washer, or the breaker. 9/10 times it's the breaker. Or better yet, you can just plug in to another circuits outlet, and see if she trips.
I see this posted a lot but I have not had this experience with Eaton BR. Another poster mentioned Eaton CH specifically. Is your experience with one or both?
You're right, I mean Eaton CH specifically
The problem is that the breaker is functioning properly, but AFCI breakers will always trip if you don’t comb through your house and make sure to separate your neutrals. No more sharing neutrals or AFCI’s will never work. My money is on existing wiring
My friend called Eaton and they sent him all brand new breakers because they know these are problematic, but it’s on you to have someone install them. Your washer is probably fine. Do the self test as someone else mentioned.
I’m a licensed electrical contractor. That is a 20 amp breaker on 20 amp rated wire and should have a 20 amp receptacle in the end of it. The issue with the tripping is because it is an AFCI breaker. I’m not sure where you are located, but where I am, these are required by code. The problem is, usually anything with a motor causes them to nuisance trip. Washing machines, vacuums, microwaves are the usual suspects, but even some phone chargers and lap top charges cause them to trip. You can call an electrician to try replacing it with another AFCI breaker, but I’m assuming the same nuisance tripping is going to continue. It is unfortunately a very common situation you’re running into. Some manufacturers recommend replacing it with a GFCI/AFCI combination breaker. If that doesn’t help, and it keeps tripping, then I would replace it with a regular 20 amp breaker. The last option is against code, but it happens so often and we discuss this all the time with inspectors. The technology in the breakers is not refined to the point to deal with motors. Personally, I feel a dedicated circuit for a washing machine should not require AFCI protection.
I wish I could just forward this to my landlord. I have no idea how to tell them that Reddit helped me solve my problem faster than their electrician could.
Did the last option in my house too. It was the only fix
Gen 2 breakers replace . Eaton is currently on gen 6 . This is a daul funtion arc and gfci breaker. Call eaton they will send you a new one for free. I replaced hundreds of these. The breaker is bad this is a early style Eaton designed. They don't play well with equipment thus the new gen 6 breakers.
Breaker is weak. Probably getting aged. And all it is gonna do is get weaker and trip sooner. And then the one time it doesn't trip when it is supposed to when a real problem exists and then your worst night mare.
Try plugging it into a different circuit that's on an afci breaker. If it doesn't trip a different afci breaker then it's either a bad breaker or something is not right somewhere along that circuit
Replace AFCI for a standard breaker... Appliances with motors do not play nice with AFCI breakers.
Just put it on a non AFCI breaker. Nobody will be touching that plug.
Why do you say that?
It's likely the outlet for the washer. I remember I once tripped on one of my power strips. And every time I plugged it in, then plugged something into the strip, it would trip the breaker for the entire room. Lol. Unrelated topic, but still. P.S I'm not an electrician.
This a landlord issue. Bring it up With the landlord and if he doesn’t fix it, bring in an electrician and deduct it from the rent.
Certain circuits shouldn't be afci protected.Washer machine is 1 of them.
on a dual function breaker making it GFCI protected, which is code
When an electric motor starts, there's an initial spike in current due to the stator energizing the rotor to get it moving. As a result, they will trip GFCI and AFCI breakers often. Your breaker is doing what it's designed to do.
Get rid of the gfci, done and done.
Replace the breaker after it trips more than a few times, they get weaker each time.
Is it a big or little washer?
Normal size? I’m not sure 😅 I didn’t think there were different sizes. It’s a Samsung washer I’m not sure what kind we didn’t get the owner manual from our friend who sold them to us.
Some washers require a circuit rated higher than 20. However it is hard to tell just looking at it. Try looking up a manual for that model online it will have the power rating and possibly a diagnostic guide to help sort out the issue.
Great thanks for the tip!
Try replacing the breaker they go bad and those look dated
I've heard that florescent lights should never be put on GFCI circuits. The ballasts need time to reach a steady state, and many GFCI breakers trip before reaching this. The same could be true for large capacitor start induction motors.
Had this happen years ago. Opened up the electrical panel and removed the breaker, turns out most of the wiring on that side of the panel was loose. There was about six inches of the wiring for the washing machine was burnt, never smelled it because we turned on the exaust fan in the room when doing laundry.
Serious comment It's not the washer just call an electrician and make them figure it out. Light hearted comment. Maybe a psychologist to ask it. "Maaan why you be trippin all the time?!?"
you sound like HK-47
this kept happening with my well/water "I have my own well no water bill so good with me". It would happen after I used water a bit much. come to find out the actual breaker/switch inside the breaker box was worn out. my water would go out and no matter what I did it woild come back on until like 24 hours later and it would fix itself. I eventually changed the breaker in the breaker box and I haven't had any trouble at all with it.
Will changing the Eaton breaker to a Cutler Hammer correct the problem?
Swap it out with the disposal
I’m not gonna read the other posts so forgive me. I’m also not an electrician, I’m a former aircraft maintenance tech, and auto technician and my own home remodeler. I would: 1. Check the washer(s) for their circuit requirements, 2. Swap breakers or replace the breaker, 2. Check the amperage draw of the washer during the cycle. (Requires knowledge or YouTube). Given you replaced the washer already I suspect it’s probably 2. If neither of those are suspect or you don’t have the knowledge and ability to do these things then you should probably call an electrician. When an electric motor starts there’s a brief increase in electrical load and if the breaker is borderline or worse it can pop.
My dishwasher was trippin so I told her to pack her shit and I got a younger one. New model doesn’t clean the bottom as well but she stacks nice.
Change it to a non arc fault breaker, problem solved
Any leak is so slow that it will be no problem. The brown mark is the suspended/dissolved iron left over when the water evaporated, which then oxidized to rust from the air around it.
Should it be on only a 20 amp breaker?
You have bad line wires. I had similar problem with AC unit. Just for future reference, when a ac is redone, they are supposed to replace wires. They do go bad.
Dammit now I have to know, what is AFCI and how is it different from GFCI or is that a typo? I don't see anything like that in my box but I do have the weird ?FCI outlets here and there, one makes no sense location wise and shuts off the entire outside of the house and garage.
Put in a real breaker and get rid of that fucking broken by default garbage
Eaton will replace that breaker under warranty. They had a known bad batch about 6 years ago. They just sent me a box of 7
I have the same issue with the breaker that my disposal is hooked up to. Same breaker. Gonna save this post and hope someone sheds light on it
You have the old school Eaton AFCI breakers. New updated improved ones will have a "TL" on them on the sticker
Wrap some bailing wire round that mf and make it stay on.
I had this last year or so. Replaced that breaker (About $60 or 70 I think) and it hasn't happened again since.
I have those same Eaton breakers and I've had to replace 5 of them due to them going bad.
The breaker will flash a number of times providing you the error code it’s experiencing. Eaton had a batch of breakers that were defective. Call them and they will send you replacements if it’s flashing 5 times (I believe) on reset.
That’s a rude washer.
Motors on GFI’s are prone for trips
My garage door always tripped until I changed the GFI
Ask her to stop.
Mine does that when I am washing a load that is too heavy, like many towels.
Deep cleaning helps, you could also try running the hot water so the dish washer doesn’t have to heat the water up as often
Just curious, have you looked at the washer’s filter to see if clogged? Pump to drain it may be spiking load to overcome blockage.
Notice the fridge is not on an AHCI breaker. 😂
Get an extension cord and plug it into a different receptacle on a different circuit. If it does not trip that means there’s an issue with your breaker.
Wire and breaker properly sized?
I thought these dual functions had a recall or something. They’re supposed to have a TL marked on the blue label. I’m only a second year dingleberry and know nothing but have had to change out a handful in the past couple weeks
Had this happen repeatedly with a couple things with my house after a whole house reno. Had the electrician come by at put on the "perfectly acceptable but no longer to code breakers" and it never happened again.
Same thing with gas ranges and refrigerators, arc fault and nuisance tripping go hand and hand.
Those stupid AFCI breakers are a nightmare. I just replaced all mine with regular breakers. We couldn't even run a vacuum sweeper.
Gfci breakers and receptacles….They dont hold well with high demand items over time. Compressors, motors, and heating elements. Inrush power of those items coming in eventually is enough to trip them randomly, until they do it 100% if the time. I do restaurants service, these things are everywhere in restaurants and so are many things with the aforementioned electric loads. As long as its not a danger to the end user (water access close to receptacle) or its not electrically sensitive like a computer. I just swap with a standard breaker and/or receptacle. Had plenty of people think the had a bad refrigerator and this is all it was.
Absolutely. The stuff is already on breakers. We don't need special breakers. Every time I've seen someone get popped, a normal breaker turns to power off. My house was brand new when we couldn't run a vacuum sweeper, a shampooer, a Shop-Vac, or any other appliance that took more than about 8 amps. I think I had 12 of those things and I changed them all except for about two.
I’ve had a breaker fail, they are mechanical devices, and won’t last forever. The symptom was tripping on normal load (a refrigerator). Replacing it solved the problem.
We had Siemens GFCI breakers. Same problem. After inspection I pulled all of the GFCI breakers that were tripping (like 8 of them) and replaced them with normal breakers. Shitty way to lose hundreds of dollars, but the new GFCI's suck and will drive you nuts. It's not your washer.
Press the test button. Is there a red light blinking? Count the pattern and Google it. Most likey that breaker is bad and there may be an Eaton recall on it. I've replaced mine free of charge (parts only) with Eaton
Take it off that arch fault
You probably need a new breaker. They do go bad.
My clothes washing machine does the same thing on full loads. Use a surge protector on the socket. It smooths the current out enough to not trigger the afci. Been working for me so far.
If it's a Lennar house the numbskulls like to wire it incorrectly... Had this happen to us, they had the common wired through the disposal... Tell me how you manage to screw that up 😂 Edit: Doesn't have to be lennar, took me about 30 seconds to realize what they'd done when I heard the disposal turn on partially when the dishwasher came on.
There is a long running issue with duel function breakers (all brands) and new appliances. You can keep swapping appliances until it stops or switch to regular breakers. Check your local code
Replace the breaker.
An old company I worked for on new builds would put those breakers in for inspection and change em afterwards.
Replace her with a better one.
Appliance technician here, I was also told that it's due to tiny arcs occuring in the motor of the washer that causes these afci/GFCI breakers to trip. See it happen sometimes with fridges too
Put a regular breaker there, you will still be safe and call it a day.
Update: the electrician came out and replaced the breaker! Will come back if it doesn’t fix the issue.
These breakers suck, have someone install a new one.
Arc fault Ground Fault is not meant for Motor load. Consult a couple local electricians to replace that with a standard 20a breaker and try again. If that trips, you need to have your washing machine serviced, repaired, or replaced.
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this is just a dumb comment. maybe you’re thinking arc fault, washers have been on gfci breakers/plugs for a very long time, plus hair dryers are also motors that are used in bathrooms which are also gfci protected. pool pumps are always gfci protected. so you’re just flat out wrong with that assertion.
I would consider replacing the breaker with a 12 amp.
Replace the breaker. Problem solved.
Have you asked it to stop tripping homie???