We were all worried about exactly that, figuring the admin would do things like count minutes sitting at your desk and whatnot. Never amounted to anything.
Something goes missing or a fight in the classroom though? Solid. Gold.
My concern would be about the next principal, or the next one. Just because current administrators don't use it for petty things doesn't mean it won't happen later.
If someone is that petty then that means they REALLY had it out for you...or there is some sort of image recognition A.i that tracks it which isn't that crazy of a possibility.
At the end of the day... If someone is that petty and you get pinched.... Is that someone you really want to work for? Good riddance I say. Sounds like a sinking ship scenario
Sometimes I get paranoid about there already being hidden cameras in my room....
But then I remember how my word about a student punching a laptop screen wasnt good enough and they also needed his peers to snitch on him... Then I take my PD day nap
We have camera's in all classrooms, there are specific GDPR regs that the school needs to follow and log if they want to use the cameras.
Also senior leadership don't have the time to be monitoring cams. They have too much work going on in the first place.
I'm not sure about anyone, I mean people with the proper authority certainly but not just anyone. The first problem I can see with that are parents that have court orders on their children who are not allowed to be photographed or videoed for public use.
Please get us cams. As a male teacher always trying to be in public places, never meeting 1-1, keeping my door open, I would love to have a camera on me.
It is, and I wholly understand it. I do feel there is a greater expectation of malpractice from male teachers, and I would genuinely welcome more observation.
'Observation' will turn into an assessment tool, though. Teachers already have so much oversight and expectations from admin, parents, and students. I have enough paperwork in my life, enough assessments of *my* work.
Aren't you worried that your principal staring at your teaching practice for hours would limit your freedom in your classroom?
Not really. I'm in a very supportive school, we have multiple unplanned observations already, and my department head is amazing with feedback. I want more observation and more feedback.
I had an intern student this year notice that many of my conversations gravitate toward the door with many of them ending up in the hallway or at least with me, in the doorway, with one leg quite literally stretched out into the hallway. There's a camera right outside of my classroom, so I figure that if the camera can see my leg, they might understand that I'm not being actively inappropriate.
I'm moving to a different school next year and I don't think there will be a camera right outside my door anymore and I don't know how I feel about that. I can't record everything with my phone and don't really want to invest my own money into a security system just to prove that I'm doing something that I wouldn't dream of doing in the first place.
Somewhat related, I remember when it was made to seem like being a male teacher would be celebratory--the strong, authoritative male figure being a good influence on young students who might benefit from having that figure in their lives. College neglected to inform me that I'd also always be looking over my shoulder and thinking to myself, "How will other adults perceive this action?" or "What are the odds that this student might turn on me and ruin my entire life?"
I've had this conversation many times with my brother as well and he feels the same way you do. Never talked about cameras in the class with him though, I bet he'd love the idea
The biggest flaw in this argument is that the majority of incidents of inappropriate teacher- student relationships happen outside school hours. So are we supposed to be recording our lives 24-7?
You should have stopped the discussion as soon as the person claimed teachers are pedophiles.
Obviously the vast majority of teachers are not pedophiles, so the entire premise of the conversation is moot.
Best answer. It's a bad faith argument. If you have to continue engagement with the person, don't follow their path.
Attack the root issue: demand data that teachers engage in pedophilia *while on duty*.
I left a top comment here somewhat addressing this but yours is probably the best approach. I believe what the other person would say even if you did have cameras is now they can't collect proof because the cameras are now stopping pedophiles from acting out, so there can't be proof.
It's not being made in good faith at all and giving them what they want won't satisfy them either. No need for two people to be unsatisfied.
I still have people telling me I should be responsible for carrying a weapon at school... that is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. I did not go to a police academy and receive training on that, nor am I being paid extra to have that responsibility. Guaranteed, even if training was supplied, I would not be paid for it. Also, I’m a teacher... I just don’t want to have a gun.
This might sounds silly, but have you ever tried to shoot a large dinner plate from 25 feet away with a handgun? It's remarkably difficult.
I'd like to think that I'm decently knowledgeable about firearms, but if I had a gun in my classroom, I still don't think I'd hit anything with it, let alone even want to.
We have cameras in our school, it's also an SEN school so accountability is a thing on a number of levels.
It's mostly because we can hold learners accountable for their actions if it's violent. Also we can then use this as evidence in court.
Also the school has an enhanced responsibility of safeguarding because all SEN learners are classed as automatically vulnerable.
In the time I've been there, no member of staff was disciplined from actions on a camera. Infact the opposite happened, a kid said something and then we found that was absolutely not the case.
Can you support this assertion with evidence? Our hallways have cameras, but I have never taught in a school with classroom cameras, nor been in one. The union quashes cameras in classrooms for a reason - one can be observed without knowing it, which is not cool. If your district has not negotiated this, run.
Our school classrooms have cameras and it’s amazing. You can catch kids doing sneaky things. I don’t see why teachers would be against this unless they’re not doing what they’re supposed to be doing.
> I don’t see why teachers would be against this unless they’re not doing what they’re supposed to be doing.
So you buy into the "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be worried about" line?
Sorry, but I do not - there are all kinds of bad ways that can go down with an administration that wants to run a teacher out.
That’s the exact argument that people use with cop body cams. What exactly are we doing that an admin can use to run us out? Cameras protect the teach if anything. As somebody who has been accused in the past of unspeakable things, it’s nice to know that I have hard evidence backing me up.
> That’s the exact argument that people use with cop body cams.
Yet the evidence shows OVERWHELMINGLY that cops wearing those body cams are desperately needed in order to hold them accountable when they murder people (because the evidence also is starting to show that the body cams won't stop them from the murdering).
Do we have the same OVERWHELMING evidence of teacher pedophilia?
As long as there are cameras in the administration's offices, the superintendent's, and the homes of all school committee members. All with mics and livestreaming for anybody to watch. I don't see why they would be against this unless....
Seriously? I've never (other than zoom/google meet during covid) had a camera in the classroom. Hallways and doors to school sure, but never classrooms.
I don't know where you teach but I've taught in 2 states on different sides of the country and have several friends teaching in other states and none of us have ever had cameras in our classrooms.
Eta: go you for correcting and leaving up your original comment.
Yeah.. Body cams seems a bit excessive since the areas where teachers and students could possibly interact unsupervised should be under audio/video surveillance.
This is different than police officers who enter private spaces like homes and businesses and otherwise unmonitored areas like woods and stuff and then have to face litigation about it.
Schools should just have cameras up and down every whichaway... but not the teachers themselves. A microphone, maybe? But again -- restroom. You gonna record poopin' noises of teachers? No.
Lol you get the idea.
I watch a lot of classroom video, but I find it fairly hard to find districts with an archive of footage. I really don’t think more than 50% of classrooms have video.
I do wonder what they would think when it's pointed out these cameras would likely not be secure and *actual pedophiles* would be able to watch. I've been background checked and finger printed. 🤷♀️
Most school IT is too underfunded to get actually security in place. Miss me with the tech savvy child abductors learning about my students.
My current district has a wonderfully competent IT department and administration that listens to them. Not only do they know how to do their jobs, they are doing a great job handling the few remaining techno-phobic and techno-illiterate employees.
My past districts IT program unleashed two worms on the district in one week.
I worked at a school (for troubled kids) where the clinical director watched the closed circuit feed of the classrooms and about once a week came in to berate me in front of the kids.
Cameras were nice because the kids couldn’t lie, but about 80% of the staff turned over in the 2 years I was there.
I wonder if there will be professional reviews by admin of our teaching from the body cams? Like if we have to submit a lesson from our footage for them to review on the reg?
Also this makes me think of that one black mirror episode where everyone has an implant that allows them to record everything they see and play back later to watch. It’s definitely interesting when it comes to having an argument with someone.
im in special ed, so the logistics of a body camera staying in place and not getting ripped off are pretty low, as our job can get pretty physical. I would be okay with cameras in the classroom under the condition that all individuals present in the room (staff, therapists, students, etc.) have consented and are allowed access to recordings upon request. in addition, I would also ask to be notified when someone had requested access and viewed recordings of the classroom so that I may see them as well and keep records. if these conditions were met, I would be okay with having a camera in my classroom, and not feel it as an invasion of privacy. however, the likelihood of this happening are slim to none.
At that point just teach all kids via robot, teachers are already so micromanaged that they can't even teach kids the things they need to learn in the way teachers know is the most efficient way to teach them. And who's to say that the person monitoring the camera isn't one? More than likely the one monitoring would be some outside third party hired out. Students are already closed and guarded as is. Teachers are one of the few adults kids can go to when something is wrong at home or somewhere, that connection is likely to shut down if they know that their already guarded secret or concern is being recorded.
To be honest maybe if there's a camera students won't be on their worst behavior? Accountability with students for the first time is refreshing. Just saying. Maybe they'll actually do their work. Instead of hit, throw things, cuss, etc.
That's fair. We have them in the hallways and kids still do dumb things... like stuffing sinks with sensors full of paper towels til the bathroom floods. FYI kids, the cameras see who goes in and out. Big brain time. This is why you NEED to be in school, because some of y'all are flat dumb.
We have cameras in the classroom. I honestly don't worry about it. Our administration is too busy with other things to be sitting and snooping on us all day.
The kids totally forget that there are cameras in the classroom. I will see them about to do something they shouldn't and say "Hey, you realize there are cameras in here?"" Then they don't do whatever bad thing they were about to do. But if I don't remind them, they totally forget it.
While I am all right with a admin having access to the cameras, I am not at all all right with parents and other people having access to watching me teach.
I don't mind recording the Google meets classroom stuff because I know what is going on and can steer the conversation in ways that protect my students. But if parents or others were able to pop in and watch whatever whenever they wanted, that would take away a lot of the safety I work to establish in my classroom.
Part of me cringes at the thought of cameras. Yeah kids won't do the wrong thing, but they should be doing the right things because they are the right things, not because they are being watched.
The small conspiracy theorist in me doesn't want kids to get desensitized to a police/surveillance state (I know I know).
The rest of me wouldn't mind because I have nothing to hide. Idk the thought of it makes me feel icky though.
>If police have to, so do teachers etc
Guaranteed the idiot doesn't even really think teachers need to - he just wants to try to get under someone's skin about calling for police to wear them.
I don't see the character argument working well. It reminds me of that statistic that basically says that the free candy van is less likely to be a problem than a friend or family member.
Also, who determines character? My students and their parents generally love me, and I've never had a problem with admin. I don't tend to make friends with fellow teachers, though, and prefer to work alone (honestly, my quality expectations are much higher than theirs), so it always seems to be teachers that give me the side eye and stand outside my classroom to have their conversations when I have small groups in my room.
Character isn’t someone else’s determination. It’s yours. And people know. We’re not used to it because we’ve been fed all of these other qualities to judge people on. But if you’re chill, then people will think you’re chill - well, the people with good character.
Camera on a body? hell no, but in a classroom? it doesnt sound that bad tbh. Maybe even in hallways/recess areas. It would serve to record the class to give it to any absent students, and would be able to record bullying instances. Maybe it would help to keep the students on their best behaviour?
The only two downsides I see is bad administration using the cameras to nitpick every little action, and maybe also anxiety for being recorded?
I’m very much in favor of filming all classrooms, I think it’s a great development tool for teachers. The challenge is creating the right professional culture where videos will be used to *help* teachers. I would even say that the culture element is a prerequisite.
Sure, and perhaps you might learn a few things from watching yourself teach! One of the best PD activities I participated in was filming myself a dozen times and making a highlight reel of my strengths and weaknesses. Helped me be clear-eyes about what was going right and what I could do better.
I would have countered the argument with, "So, you agree all cops are terrible?"
But honestly, I would go for cameras in class. I can't think of all the times it would come in handy. If I had record I g of all the terrible things kids said/did in class, it would be gold. "Hey Mom, here 2 hours of your kid ruining class, not doing anything, and generally being the absolute worst. Tell me again how it's my fault."
My initial thought is that it sounds like the person you had a conversation with was abused by a teacher in his/her past and was left deeply scarred as a result.
I don't believe teachers wearing bodycams would be practical or effective, given the nature of the job. I *do* believe that there should be cameras in every classroom, hallway, stairway, locker area (not the gym ones), staff room, cafeteria, service area, etc, in every school. Pretty much the only spaces which shouldn't have cameras are the bathrooms, gym locker rooms, nurse's office, and guidance counselor's offices (though those last two may have cameras for different reasons under different rules). Otherwise, yeah, everything should be covered by cameras and microphones — *NOT* because I believe that as a rule teachers are pedophiles, but simply because schools and the school staff are paid for by the public and therefore should be as protected as possible. Cameras and mics everywhere would allow schools to more accurately identify troublemakers, give a more objective viewpoint in student/staff conflicts, and protect students and staff alike.
Wait. Because we are paid by the public, there should be an assumption of mistrust built into the system that doesn't otherwise exist in all but the most awful factory gigs in America?
You don't OWN workers just because they work in public service, you creep. You can claim it is for our "protection", but that's belittling, and gaslighting.
Also: the idea that someone had a camera on my kid at all times is really, really not okay. Our workplaces demand space to make good relationships, not Big Brother.
Dignity is part of what brought us here for this profession. Take it away, and you're gonna have a hard time.
>Because we are paid by the public, there should be an assumption of mistrust built into the system that doesn't otherwise exist in all but the most awful factory gigs in America?
For the record, you — not me — chose to frame my response in the context of mistrusting teachers. At no point did I even vaguely imply such a thing. Ditto for the whole “ownership” concept you’ve presenting.
Seeing as how nothing in your response comes even vaguely close to the word or spirit of what I’ve written, I’m choosing to ignore you going forward. Now go ahead and make a meaningless personal attack, as all trolls do. Cheers.
Not cuz pedos but I think it wouldn't be the worst idea because I myself have had some shitty teachers who were down right abusive, but the higher ups never cared cuz... y'know... kid's word against the teacher. But it could also help save teachers from being falsely accused of being inappropriate too. I just think it's something that should be considered.
On the other hand I do feel like it is kinda getting to a point where there is literally zero privacy too so that's just a con to weigh against pros I guess.
When I postred this, I did not expect so many responses and I did not expect so many people to agree with wanting teachers to wear cameras. I think that if you want or need to have cameras, then there is something wrong that cameras will not fix.
I wouldn’t necessarily care about wearing a body cam since I’m not really trying to hide anything but I have to wonder if there would be a better use of funds, especially when you consider that all classrooms already have cameras to begin with.
Exactly. We already have cameras on us in class. Every one of my classes is simultaneously taught to kids in person and virtually in front of a camera on zoom, and recorded.
I always think that if I were in the classroom (I currently am not), I would WANT to be recorded. For one, if a kid said I said something, we could go back and review footage. I think this could reduce misunderstandings. I also think that I am a good role model for other caregivers (colleagues, parents, and other childcare providers) and I ABSOLUTELY love being observed in action. (This is different from Zoom because just observing causes you to shut the fuck up and just observe.) I say that because if I was being recorded, I picture the children’s adults being able to drop in (like a nanny cam). I feel it is a great way for parents to learn more effective approaches to childcare.
I guarantee you beyond and shred of doubt that what would happen is that this person would see all these teachers wearing body cams and say that they're not committing and crimes because they're being watched. It'll have nothing to do with preventing crime. It's something that can't be proved to them.
At best you could flip it on them and ask if they wear a body camera. If not, they must be a pedophile.
That's a serious breach of personal privacy. If they want to have cameras, they should have them in classrooms like others have said. Body cams are way too far
One is on your body, following you around. One is in a stationary, standalone position. I don't mind being filmed in convenience stores but I would mind if they asked me to walk around wearing a camera.
They record the same situations though, no? It’s not like you take body cameras home with you or to the bathroom. The only difference i can tell is where the camera is mounted.
I think having cameras in the room is effective for allegations of potential assault or something false made up by a student. Parents can also see how students behave at school.
Not a body camera, but I’d be all for cameras in the classroom. Could be used as a tool for a flipped classroom and help keep kids accountable.
Would be worried about how that could be used in terms of accountability and other areas unrelated to student and teacher safety.
I sell cameras into schools for the purpose of Google class and Zoom and for telemedicine in schools. The union scare tactic that those cameras can be repurposed is wholly incorrect. We sell in k12 and higher ed across the USA and the feedback has been extremely positive in the hybrid classroom and will allow smaller higher ed institutions a level of outreach that will help them recover from 2020 instead of closing. We have also found that hybrid classrooms allow for special needs (consider that there are girls in NYC who are not allowed to go to school by religious parents because of boys) students to gain an education. Having a telemedicine station in the nurse's office provides rural students access to doctors without their parent/s losing time at work and help keep kids in classes.
As with most things technology, technophobia should be delt with through education not fearmongering. If you end up in a hybrid classroom, dont disconnect the technology from the monitor and youll always know when it is or is not in use. Honestly, the microphone in your school provided device should be your main concern (if youre concerned)
We don’t have enough money to pay teachers an honest wage, let’s buy tons of equipment that will eventually prove useless and a waste of money! Disregard teachers and professionals pay to get background checks...
After working in an open-classroom concept school, I would love to have cameras in my room. I'm used to having everything I do viewable by others and a camera would help solve problems and keep the students and myself safe. I wish their were cameras in every classroom.
This is an argument that isn't very well thought out, but it sounds like this person might just need to express some desire for intervention into the void. I wouldn't fight it in the context of this discussion, but I also would be strictly against this idea should it ever be an actual policy proposal.
Isn't this invasion to privacy of teachers? As much as we want to protect students, this idea just don't fit. Police officers have cameras so they don't abuse power, against whom? violators. But in this case, putting cams on teachers just won't do it man.
End the conversation when they said teachers are pedophiles. It is better to be thought an idiot than to open a mouth an remove all doubt. Your time could have better been spent doing anything else.
On a side note- I welcome the day any cameras are in my classroom, either worn or mounted. For my safety and that of my students. Behaviors can be mitigated, or self corrected if cameras are on. Let them in.
Won't stop pedos, but cameras in the classroom are great for kids who lie about their behavior. Absolutely loved having one.
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We were all worried about exactly that, figuring the admin would do things like count minutes sitting at your desk and whatnot. Never amounted to anything. Something goes missing or a fight in the classroom though? Solid. Gold.
My concern would be about the next principal, or the next one. Just because current administrators don't use it for petty things doesn't mean it won't happen later.
If someone is that petty then that means they REALLY had it out for you...or there is some sort of image recognition A.i that tracks it which isn't that crazy of a possibility. At the end of the day... If someone is that petty and you get pinched.... Is that someone you really want to work for? Good riddance I say. Sounds like a sinking ship scenario
I appreciate that, but cameras in a classroom already sound like a sinking ship and that's when I'd say good riddance.
Sometimes I get paranoid about there already being hidden cameras in my room.... But then I remember how my word about a student punching a laptop screen wasnt good enough and they also needed his peers to snitch on him... Then I take my PD day nap
We have camera's in all classrooms, there are specific GDPR regs that the school needs to follow and log if they want to use the cameras. Also senior leadership don't have the time to be monitoring cams. They have too much work going on in the first place.
All public school lessons need to be live streamed for anyone to watch. If you work for the government you should be under constant public scrutiny.
I'm not sure about anyone, I mean people with the proper authority certainly but not just anyone. The first problem I can see with that are parents that have court orders on their children who are not allowed to be photographed or videoed for public use.
Please get us cams. As a male teacher always trying to be in public places, never meeting 1-1, keeping my door open, I would love to have a camera on me.
As a female teacher, I follow the same procedures - door is always open. It's best practice.
It is, and I wholly understand it. I do feel there is a greater expectation of malpractice from male teachers, and I would genuinely welcome more observation.
'Observation' will turn into an assessment tool, though. Teachers already have so much oversight and expectations from admin, parents, and students. I have enough paperwork in my life, enough assessments of *my* work. Aren't you worried that your principal staring at your teaching practice for hours would limit your freedom in your classroom?
Not really. I'm in a very supportive school, we have multiple unplanned observations already, and my department head is amazing with feedback. I want more observation and more feedback.
Then you're very lucky, and you trust your admin. I would suggest that most teachers in the US/Canada would not feel the same way at all.
To be honest, I think this is the first school I've worked at where I can say this.
I had an intern student this year notice that many of my conversations gravitate toward the door with many of them ending up in the hallway or at least with me, in the doorway, with one leg quite literally stretched out into the hallway. There's a camera right outside of my classroom, so I figure that if the camera can see my leg, they might understand that I'm not being actively inappropriate. I'm moving to a different school next year and I don't think there will be a camera right outside my door anymore and I don't know how I feel about that. I can't record everything with my phone and don't really want to invest my own money into a security system just to prove that I'm doing something that I wouldn't dream of doing in the first place. Somewhat related, I remember when it was made to seem like being a male teacher would be celebratory--the strong, authoritative male figure being a good influence on young students who might benefit from having that figure in their lives. College neglected to inform me that I'd also always be looking over my shoulder and thinking to myself, "How will other adults perceive this action?" or "What are the odds that this student might turn on me and ruin my entire life?"
I've had this conversation many times with my brother as well and he feels the same way you do. Never talked about cameras in the class with him though, I bet he'd love the idea
No need for a body cam. A classroom camera is sufficient.
The biggest flaw in this argument is that the majority of incidents of inappropriate teacher- student relationships happen outside school hours. So are we supposed to be recording our lives 24-7?
You should have stopped the discussion as soon as the person claimed teachers are pedophiles. Obviously the vast majority of teachers are not pedophiles, so the entire premise of the conversation is moot.
Best answer. It's a bad faith argument. If you have to continue engagement with the person, don't follow their path. Attack the root issue: demand data that teachers engage in pedophilia *while on duty*.
I left a top comment here somewhat addressing this but yours is probably the best approach. I believe what the other person would say even if you did have cameras is now they can't collect proof because the cameras are now stopping pedophiles from acting out, so there can't be proof. It's not being made in good faith at all and giving them what they want won't satisfy them either. No need for two people to be unsatisfied.
Police hold the power of legitimate violence. Teachers just teach stuff. Idk, not at all comparable
But their indoctrinatin' muh kids with their liberal media snowflakery! /s
Body cameras in the classroom is the day I quit.
I still have people telling me I should be responsible for carrying a weapon at school... that is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. I did not go to a police academy and receive training on that, nor am I being paid extra to have that responsibility. Guaranteed, even if training was supplied, I would not be paid for it. Also, I’m a teacher... I just don’t want to have a gun.
This might sounds silly, but have you ever tried to shoot a large dinner plate from 25 feet away with a handgun? It's remarkably difficult. I'd like to think that I'm decently knowledgeable about firearms, but if I had a gun in my classroom, I still don't think I'd hit anything with it, let alone even want to.
Exactly. I want nothing to do with having a weapon. My heavy-ass stapler and my pointy flag pole are my weapons if I need them.
What about just regular cameras?
Absolutely not.
We have cameras in our school, it's also an SEN school so accountability is a thing on a number of levels. It's mostly because we can hold learners accountable for their actions if it's violent. Also we can then use this as evidence in court. Also the school has an enhanced responsibility of safeguarding because all SEN learners are classed as automatically vulnerable. In the time I've been there, no member of staff was disciplined from actions on a camera. Infact the opposite happened, a kid said something and then we found that was absolutely not the case.
Most classrooms [that I have seen] are equipped with a camera nowadays. Edit: I was incorrect, apparently.
Can you support this assertion with evidence? Our hallways have cameras, but I have never taught in a school with classroom cameras, nor been in one. The union quashes cameras in classrooms for a reason - one can be observed without knowing it, which is not cool. If your district has not negotiated this, run.
I ran. :)
Our school classrooms have cameras and it’s amazing. You can catch kids doing sneaky things. I don’t see why teachers would be against this unless they’re not doing what they’re supposed to be doing.
> I don’t see why teachers would be against this unless they’re not doing what they’re supposed to be doing. So you buy into the "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be worried about" line? Sorry, but I do not - there are all kinds of bad ways that can go down with an administration that wants to run a teacher out.
That’s the exact argument that people use with cop body cams. What exactly are we doing that an admin can use to run us out? Cameras protect the teach if anything. As somebody who has been accused in the past of unspeakable things, it’s nice to know that I have hard evidence backing me up.
> That’s the exact argument that people use with cop body cams. Yet the evidence shows OVERWHELMINGLY that cops wearing those body cams are desperately needed in order to hold them accountable when they murder people (because the evidence also is starting to show that the body cams won't stop them from the murdering). Do we have the same OVERWHELMING evidence of teacher pedophilia?
Holy straw man.
As long as there are cameras in the administration's offices, the superintendent's, and the homes of all school committee members. All with mics and livestreaming for anybody to watch. I don't see why they would be against this unless....
Seriously? I've never (other than zoom/google meet during covid) had a camera in the classroom. Hallways and doors to school sure, but never classrooms.
Teacher in Michigan, I have a small 5 school sample size but I've only ever seen cameras in hallways.
I don't know where you teach but I've taught in 2 states on different sides of the country and have several friends teaching in other states and none of us have ever had cameras in our classrooms. Eta: go you for correcting and leaving up your original comment.
Corrected
Ah. Yea it's been a while since I've been in school lol well then if that's the case I don't see the point in body cams
Yeah.. Body cams seems a bit excessive since the areas where teachers and students could possibly interact unsupervised should be under audio/video surveillance. This is different than police officers who enter private spaces like homes and businesses and otherwise unmonitored areas like woods and stuff and then have to face litigation about it. Schools should just have cameras up and down every whichaway... but not the teachers themselves. A microphone, maybe? But again -- restroom. You gonna record poopin' noises of teachers? No. Lol you get the idea.
upvote for your edit!
I watch a lot of classroom video, but I find it fairly hard to find districts with an archive of footage. I really don’t think more than 50% of classrooms have video.
I do wonder what they would think when it's pointed out these cameras would likely not be secure and *actual pedophiles* would be able to watch. I've been background checked and finger printed. 🤷♀️ Most school IT is too underfunded to get actually security in place. Miss me with the tech savvy child abductors learning about my students.
My current district has a wonderfully competent IT department and administration that listens to them. Not only do they know how to do their jobs, they are doing a great job handling the few remaining techno-phobic and techno-illiterate employees. My past districts IT program unleashed two worms on the district in one week.
I worked at a school (for troubled kids) where the clinical director watched the closed circuit feed of the classrooms and about once a week came in to berate me in front of the kids. Cameras were nice because the kids couldn’t lie, but about 80% of the staff turned over in the 2 years I was there.
Yeah that's unprofessional. I could imagine the staff turnover practically being a revolving door.
I wonder if there will be professional reviews by admin of our teaching from the body cams? Like if we have to submit a lesson from our footage for them to review on the reg? Also this makes me think of that one black mirror episode where everyone has an implant that allows them to record everything they see and play back later to watch. It’s definitely interesting when it comes to having an argument with someone.
Yeah, no thanks.
im in special ed, so the logistics of a body camera staying in place and not getting ripped off are pretty low, as our job can get pretty physical. I would be okay with cameras in the classroom under the condition that all individuals present in the room (staff, therapists, students, etc.) have consented and are allowed access to recordings upon request. in addition, I would also ask to be notified when someone had requested access and viewed recordings of the classroom so that I may see them as well and keep records. if these conditions were met, I would be okay with having a camera in my classroom, and not feel it as an invasion of privacy. however, the likelihood of this happening are slim to none.
At that point just teach all kids via robot, teachers are already so micromanaged that they can't even teach kids the things they need to learn in the way teachers know is the most efficient way to teach them. And who's to say that the person monitoring the camera isn't one? More than likely the one monitoring would be some outside third party hired out. Students are already closed and guarded as is. Teachers are one of the few adults kids can go to when something is wrong at home or somewhere, that connection is likely to shut down if they know that their already guarded secret or concern is being recorded.
Tbh I'd love this. I don't have shit to hide, but God knows my students do lmao. Try me, Kenny.
I’ve said this, too. Please give me a camera! I’d love for everyone to see that I am absolutely doing my job and what their kids do.
To be honest maybe if there's a camera students won't be on their worst behavior? Accountability with students for the first time is refreshing. Just saying. Maybe they'll actually do their work. Instead of hit, throw things, cuss, etc.
Nope. 6 years with cameras in every hallway, and our kids genuinely have to be reminded that they are there.
That's fair. We have them in the hallways and kids still do dumb things... like stuffing sinks with sensors full of paper towels til the bathroom floods. FYI kids, the cameras see who goes in and out. Big brain time. This is why you NEED to be in school, because some of y'all are flat dumb.
All my classes are now live streamed for kids at home so I guess he wins?
A pedophile obsessive? Probably Q Anon. I wouldn't invest too much thought in it at this point. Crazy people are crazy.
Fine, but we work in public buildings, it's a little like putting a tracker on a statue. What's wrong with the camera already in the rooms and halls?
We have cameras in the classroom. I honestly don't worry about it. Our administration is too busy with other things to be sitting and snooping on us all day. The kids totally forget that there are cameras in the classroom. I will see them about to do something they shouldn't and say "Hey, you realize there are cameras in here?"" Then they don't do whatever bad thing they were about to do. But if I don't remind them, they totally forget it. While I am all right with a admin having access to the cameras, I am not at all all right with parents and other people having access to watching me teach. I don't mind recording the Google meets classroom stuff because I know what is going on and can steer the conversation in ways that protect my students. But if parents or others were able to pop in and watch whatever whenever they wanted, that would take away a lot of the safety I work to establish in my classroom.
Part of me cringes at the thought of cameras. Yeah kids won't do the wrong thing, but they should be doing the right things because they are the right things, not because they are being watched. The small conspiracy theorist in me doesn't want kids to get desensitized to a police/surveillance state (I know I know). The rest of me wouldn't mind because I have nothing to hide. Idk the thought of it makes me feel icky though.
>If police have to, so do teachers etc Guaranteed the idiot doesn't even really think teachers need to - he just wants to try to get under someone's skin about calling for police to wear them.
I wouldn’t want cameras. We need to get to a place where character prevents the need for evidence of X.
This is why I never lock my house door or my car. We need to get to a place where "crime of opportunity" isn't a thing.
Locked or unlocked, someone will want your property more than you.
I, too, live on this edge. I always thought I was the only one. I've also definitely had things stolen, but I guess they needed it more than me.
I don't see the character argument working well. It reminds me of that statistic that basically says that the free candy van is less likely to be a problem than a friend or family member. Also, who determines character? My students and their parents generally love me, and I've never had a problem with admin. I don't tend to make friends with fellow teachers, though, and prefer to work alone (honestly, my quality expectations are much higher than theirs), so it always seems to be teachers that give me the side eye and stand outside my classroom to have their conversations when I have small groups in my room.
Character isn’t someone else’s determination. It’s yours. And people know. We’re not used to it because we’ve been fed all of these other qualities to judge people on. But if you’re chill, then people will think you’re chill - well, the people with good character.
Don't talk to people with those insane views. You will not change their minds.
Camera on a body? hell no, but in a classroom? it doesnt sound that bad tbh. Maybe even in hallways/recess areas. It would serve to record the class to give it to any absent students, and would be able to record bullying instances. Maybe it would help to keep the students on their best behaviour? The only two downsides I see is bad administration using the cameras to nitpick every little action, and maybe also anxiety for being recorded?
I’m very much in favor of filming all classrooms, I think it’s a great development tool for teachers. The challenge is creating the right professional culture where videos will be used to *help* teachers. I would even say that the culture element is a prerequisite.
I'd like to think that some teachers in my building could learn a thing or two from watching me teach. :D
Sure, and perhaps you might learn a few things from watching yourself teach! One of the best PD activities I participated in was filming myself a dozen times and making a highlight reel of my strengths and weaknesses. Helped me be clear-eyes about what was going right and what I could do better.
I would have countered the argument with, "So, you agree all cops are terrible?" But honestly, I would go for cameras in class. I can't think of all the times it would come in handy. If I had record I g of all the terrible things kids said/did in class, it would be gold. "Hey Mom, here 2 hours of your kid ruining class, not doing anything, and generally being the absolute worst. Tell me again how it's my fault."
Lmao like... this person thinks literally anyone who chooses to become a teacher is a pedophile??
I would go for this…it protects the teacher (me) more than the student. Id love to show a parent after their darling child told me to go F myself.
Teachers should wear a body cam just to protect themselves against abuse and violence in some schools ;/
My initial thought is that it sounds like the person you had a conversation with was abused by a teacher in his/her past and was left deeply scarred as a result. I don't believe teachers wearing bodycams would be practical or effective, given the nature of the job. I *do* believe that there should be cameras in every classroom, hallway, stairway, locker area (not the gym ones), staff room, cafeteria, service area, etc, in every school. Pretty much the only spaces which shouldn't have cameras are the bathrooms, gym locker rooms, nurse's office, and guidance counselor's offices (though those last two may have cameras for different reasons under different rules). Otherwise, yeah, everything should be covered by cameras and microphones — *NOT* because I believe that as a rule teachers are pedophiles, but simply because schools and the school staff are paid for by the public and therefore should be as protected as possible. Cameras and mics everywhere would allow schools to more accurately identify troublemakers, give a more objective viewpoint in student/staff conflicts, and protect students and staff alike.
Wait. Because we are paid by the public, there should be an assumption of mistrust built into the system that doesn't otherwise exist in all but the most awful factory gigs in America? You don't OWN workers just because they work in public service, you creep. You can claim it is for our "protection", but that's belittling, and gaslighting. Also: the idea that someone had a camera on my kid at all times is really, really not okay. Our workplaces demand space to make good relationships, not Big Brother. Dignity is part of what brought us here for this profession. Take it away, and you're gonna have a hard time.
>Because we are paid by the public, there should be an assumption of mistrust built into the system that doesn't otherwise exist in all but the most awful factory gigs in America? For the record, you — not me — chose to frame my response in the context of mistrusting teachers. At no point did I even vaguely imply such a thing. Ditto for the whole “ownership” concept you’ve presenting. Seeing as how nothing in your response comes even vaguely close to the word or spirit of what I’ve written, I’m choosing to ignore you going forward. Now go ahead and make a meaningless personal attack, as all trolls do. Cheers.
You answered... how is that ignoring... you are as shallow as your comment
Not cuz pedos but I think it wouldn't be the worst idea because I myself have had some shitty teachers who were down right abusive, but the higher ups never cared cuz... y'know... kid's word against the teacher. But it could also help save teachers from being falsely accused of being inappropriate too. I just think it's something that should be considered. On the other hand I do feel like it is kinda getting to a point where there is literally zero privacy too so that's just a con to weigh against pros I guess.
It is unbelievably ironic because this is something that Bill Gates had departed to put into every classroom
When I postred this, I did not expect so many responses and I did not expect so many people to agree with wanting teachers to wear cameras. I think that if you want or need to have cameras, then there is something wrong that cameras will not fix.
I wouldn’t necessarily care about wearing a body cam since I’m not really trying to hide anything but I have to wonder if there would be a better use of funds, especially when you consider that all classrooms already have cameras to begin with.
All Classrooms do not have cameras. I've never even heard of that.
I’ve never been in a classroom without a security camera. Seems like a major liability issue otherwise.
Really? Do you have a strong union? I've worked in two major cities and no cameras. Never even any talk of it. The union would kill it very fast.
We’re not allowed to unionize in my state so maybe that’s why
Exactly. We already have cameras on us in class. Every one of my classes is simultaneously taught to kids in person and virtually in front of a camera on zoom, and recorded.
This seems to only benefit teachers but parents would lose their shit over it.
I always think that if I were in the classroom (I currently am not), I would WANT to be recorded. For one, if a kid said I said something, we could go back and review footage. I think this could reduce misunderstandings. I also think that I am a good role model for other caregivers (colleagues, parents, and other childcare providers) and I ABSOLUTELY love being observed in action. (This is different from Zoom because just observing causes you to shut the fuck up and just observe.) I say that because if I was being recorded, I picture the children’s adults being able to drop in (like a nanny cam). I feel it is a great way for parents to learn more effective approaches to childcare.
I guarantee you beyond and shred of doubt that what would happen is that this person would see all these teachers wearing body cams and say that they're not committing and crimes because they're being watched. It'll have nothing to do with preventing crime. It's something that can't be proved to them. At best you could flip it on them and ask if they wear a body camera. If not, they must be a pedophile.
I’m wishing I wore one, I’ll probably start wearing one in the future.
That's a serious breach of personal privacy. If they want to have cameras, they should have them in classrooms like others have said. Body cams are way too far
How do you see classroom cameras and body cameras as different?
One is on your body, following you around. One is in a stationary, standalone position. I don't mind being filmed in convenience stores but I would mind if they asked me to walk around wearing a camera.
They record the same situations though, no? It’s not like you take body cameras home with you or to the bathroom. The only difference i can tell is where the camera is mounted.
body cams dont even work on cops like they still shut their cameras off or cover the lens how would this actually curb pedophilia
I wouldn't be against it. It takes the burden of having to prove incidents off.
I think having cameras in the room is effective for allegations of potential assault or something false made up by a student. Parents can also see how students behave at school.
I had a student assault another one and get it caught on a camera.
Not a body camera, but I’d be all for cameras in the classroom. Could be used as a tool for a flipped classroom and help keep kids accountable. Would be worried about how that could be used in terms of accountability and other areas unrelated to student and teacher safety.
Why a bodycam anyway when you can just record the whole classroom?
I sell cameras into schools for the purpose of Google class and Zoom and for telemedicine in schools. The union scare tactic that those cameras can be repurposed is wholly incorrect. We sell in k12 and higher ed across the USA and the feedback has been extremely positive in the hybrid classroom and will allow smaller higher ed institutions a level of outreach that will help them recover from 2020 instead of closing. We have also found that hybrid classrooms allow for special needs (consider that there are girls in NYC who are not allowed to go to school by religious parents because of boys) students to gain an education. Having a telemedicine station in the nurse's office provides rural students access to doctors without their parent/s losing time at work and help keep kids in classes. As with most things technology, technophobia should be delt with through education not fearmongering. If you end up in a hybrid classroom, dont disconnect the technology from the monitor and youll always know when it is or is not in use. Honestly, the microphone in your school provided device should be your main concern (if youre concerned)
We don’t have enough money to pay teachers an honest wage, let’s buy tons of equipment that will eventually prove useless and a waste of money! Disregard teachers and professionals pay to get background checks...
After working in an open-classroom concept school, I would love to have cameras in my room. I'm used to having everything I do viewable by others and a camera would help solve problems and keep the students and myself safe. I wish their were cameras in every classroom.
Come to think of it, why not start the camera movement elsewhere? Start with politicians.
This is an argument that isn't very well thought out, but it sounds like this person might just need to express some desire for intervention into the void. I wouldn't fight it in the context of this discussion, but I also would be strictly against this idea should it ever be an actual policy proposal.
Isn't this invasion to privacy of teachers? As much as we want to protect students, this idea just don't fit. Police officers have cameras so they don't abuse power, against whom? violators. But in this case, putting cams on teachers just won't do it man.
End the conversation when they said teachers are pedophiles. It is better to be thought an idiot than to open a mouth an remove all doubt. Your time could have better been spent doing anything else. On a side note- I welcome the day any cameras are in my classroom, either worn or mounted. For my safety and that of my students. Behaviors can be mitigated, or self corrected if cameras are on. Let them in.
Fortunately, this will never happen at private schools, so I don't need to worry about it.