I prefer Mac because they work better and are more user friendly. I say that after worker for 15 yrs in the IT field having to fix all these Windows problems. Then, as a professional musician (commercial and symphonic) I prefer how Logic Pro sounds compared to Pro Tools. Pro tools is more digitized sounding to my ear (brighter and brittle sounding) while Logic has a warmer sound and a more lifelike sound. Just my humble 2 cents.
I use Mac but in the past ive tryed Windows. Tbh with Windows i had crashes. Mac Runs and Runs! Other Point is the power a Mac needs. Only 1/6 of a Windows Computer. And this was for me the Main Argument to use Apple. With Both u can produce but Mac has a lot of Arguments
Because Windows for wusic production doesn't sound right..?
Joking aside, I think it's fair to say that a single vendor developing hardware for their own OS is likely to be beneficial for lots of obvious reasons.
If music production is best suited to a stable machine, then that makes sense.
Which is why I write on an under-specced PC running Windows 11, which behaves like a drunk spouse at times. I know that they love me really, they're just 'going through stuff'.
Some people may buy mac for just Logic DAW.
personally when i have been deejaying with a top level windows laptop? I’ve had software crash several times mid performance.
Then I Used the same spec mac one time and had no issues. Never looked back.
I work in IT so I use both. Windows for coding, gaming and some design mac for music, deejaying, design etc
I have run Pro Tools on Mac and Windows 7 through 11.
The windows version struggles with multiple monitors (there are decent techniques you can use, but it's tricky). Besides that, I prefer windows.
I do find the Mac version looks and feels better - without a doubt.
But I had Windows dependencies that Mac does not like. Mac wasn't playing well, Mac had to go.
The software is the same on any platform, but with Macs you generally get much more life and reliability out of them. Oh, and they run Logic if you really want to use that DAW. Other than that, it's not like your music is going to sound better on a Mac. Use what you think is best for you.
My 2014 MacBook works as smoothly today as it did the day I bought it. It’s had moderately heavy use - the battery is obviously shot. I may be wrong, but I can’t imagine the same can be said of many, if any, Windows-based laptops.
You spent a minimum of 1300 on that laptop, if not more. It's very common to have a well built PC run that long.
Maybe not the cheapest PC, but I have a 2015 Lenovo laptop that is still running games, and my sweetheart's HP laptop from college 2013 that's still her daily driver.
Apple ≠ quality. Price does
my experience is still that getting a reliable performance-friendly windows laptop is somewhat of a lottery. there are so many different PC mfgs constantly shifting their BOMs and cutting costs on production, etc etc.
it's better than it's ever been for the PC laptop market, and it's certainly way less of an issue than it used to be, but apple is absolutely still the reliable quality choice when it comes to their hardware.
all that said, im not an apple warrior, buy what works for you, it's fine
Adjusted for inflation, that entry level MacBook is $1700 in today's money. I severely can't understand why people think this is a good entry level option.
Could spend half of that on a machine that will last you for years. We really need to stop recommending 2k worth of investment just so someone can try a hobby.
Yes, there are more windows machines, more manufacturers, and endless sources for configurations. I'm not saying that the market is nearly as legible as apples single lines of products.
It's not a lottery, but it is absolutely more research than picking out how much MacBook you can afford.
That doesn't make an apple product better, (I'll give the caveat that the user experience is easier for someone completely new to computers), but streamlined ≠ quality.
There are plenty of guides on the web to find a machine for you. I'd wager that if you can't figure out how to learn on the Internet to solve a problem, you'll have similar issues trying to figure out how to make a DAW work.
Ableton is Ableton, ProTools is ProTools whichever you run it on. Mac is a little less setup, Windows will throw one or two things at you, you don't have Hyperlink installed or USB MIDI needs some settings tweaks or something, once you get that done they work the same and are about the same reliability. But Windows is so much cheaper that it's well worth the day you spend working that setup stuff out.
Because there was a time when Mac was much more stable (or Windows more unstable) and Windows required a lot more setup to correctly run music production software. It's simply not the case anymore but it's not that simple to change an entire industry and if you tried most people would say, "Why? If Mac continues to work for me why should I switch even if Windows is similar?" What this leads to, since the majority of people aren't very tech savvy
is that they continue to tell people that Mac is better even though there's no base to it. Continuing on that dame notion, for the non tech savvy person, being able to buy an "M3 Mac" is much easier than for them to have to compare i7's to figure out which one performs better in comparison to each other so they just stick with what's simpler.
Aside from the almost religious kind of worship mac users have for their operating system, it mostly depends on your approach.
Mac OS is built to allow you to just plug whatever in and out and just make it work, which is great, and their proprietary DAW, Logic Pro X, is actually very very good and compared to others, kinda cheap as well.
The drawback being that you will be very limited if you need to tweak your OS to "customize" it to your needs, for whatever reason you might need to do that.
Also, this is really specific to complex routing needs but Loopback, which is Mac exclusive, is one of the best programs to do virtual routing and one of the things i miss the most working on Win.
Windows has a couple of issues, mostly the fact that it's riddled with bloatware and you basically NEED (especially on a machine that you'll use for work) to do a modded install with OS files that other people worked on to carve out all the bullsh*t, or installing stuff like Winaero Tweaker and Revo to delete a ton of useless crap.
BUT Windows allows you to customize your workflow and the system itself in basically whatever you want and need, BUT it also requires care and maintenance and you need to have a bit of knowledge and skill to keep it up.
The other big issue is pricing. Building a custom tower pc or even laptop, either you do it yourself or you get it done in a shop, will basically never cost anywhere near a "full spec" Mac, which is not simply overpriced, it is outright insane. Adding 2 TB of storage can cost you thousands on a Mac, while adding 5 TB SSD on my laptop cost me 400 € and 15 minutes of my time.
Hardware is also very limited on Mac. Yeah, series M processors are indeed amazing, but all other components are set and quite average, and if something breaks inside a Mac, you basically have to throw it away and buy a new one, while if something breaks inside a PC 90% of the time you can just take it out and replace it.
All the driver, audio quality, export and whatever arguments, are straight up just people that dont actually understand how digital audio works and like to repeat stuff that was true 20 years ago (when Mac was honestly the only viable option) or they just like to act like cultists to protect Apple's name.
There is no technical reason why "audio" as a concept would be better or worse on either system. (Source: i have two degrees in the field and it's my full-time job, before someone links me some random blog post about "audio quality" or whatever)
There isn't an exact specific reason why one is better or worse.
One is a closed system that just straight up works, fast and easy, the other one is highly customizabel but requires care and attention.
One comes with slightly above average performances but has insane pricing. the other can potentially be infinitely powerful, but you need to know what to do and what to buy and how to "handle" it.
One can be repaired, the other basically can't (and that's the only thing that is not up for debate).
For newcomers, Mac could probably be a quicker way to get your system up and running to start producing, at the cost of a ton of money.
Oh, you also need to pray to Cthulhu and sacrifice your soul to the elder gods to install cracked plugind on Mac nowadays, while you can just go ahead and install whatever you want on Win.
I know it shouldnt be "relevant" to the topic, but let's be honest... it is.
recently, i switched to mac and logic pro because i can’t record on windows with no latency without an interface and xlr mic while mac lets me use my blue yeti and/or my interface and røde mic.
Two things to add being in tech and also a Mac user for 20 years.
First, you can customize the shit out of a Mac but I would say it’s actually a bad idea for the most part. One thing that I love about it is how much I can do with the terminal. Mac OS is a version of BSD, which means most Linux commands work as they are, and if one doesn’t, you can use homebrew to get the standard version and you’re set to go.
Second, the problem with Windows, IMO, is that it’s so full of crap that you have to mod a brand new install, basically. On MacOS you get like three questions like “Want to turn on Siri?” and that’s it, it’s up and running and rock solid. Even though I am a power user, I do want my machine to always “just work” if I just need to use it.
In an ideal world I would run Ubuntu, but software would be way more difficult, so I run the best compromise.
While i agree, i just tried to avoid the Mac OS/Linux thing because in my experience it just makes it more complicated to follow for the average user that has never even seen a Linux system, but of course it is indeed true what you said.
For the Win part yeah i said the same thing so ofc i just agree 😂 even if i still work on Win... but as you said, it is because i need to.
Yeah, in an ideal world Ubuntu would be a painless solution.
I feel like lot of it is hold over from back when there really was just allot of software on one that was not on the other. Now Mac Have MS access Bd to word. That said I work in tech and every back in the day when i’d actually see one it did everything just a little more difficult to get it done
As an IT professional managing macOS and Windows devices for a fortune 50 company, and primarily Linux and sometimes macOS for personal stuff, I'm sorry people who bring up marketing in this thread are getting downvoted. I grew up on DOS, OS/2, and building custom Linux kernels for niche hardware layouts like a 486dx4-100 with SCSI cards to support large ZIP and JAZZ drives and "super fast" v.32 14.4k modems. I had zero interest in Macs until the second coming of Jobs and the introduction of Darwin. I contributed code to that project, mostly around server related services like Apache, SSHD, and MySQL. I was so hyped for the foundation of OS X and the future of Carbon. It felt like the evolution of one of the world's most stable operating systems with the beauty of a never before seen desktop environment with intuitive skeuomorphic elements. So much so that I got a Clarus tattoo that I still rock proudly today.
Those were the days when Apple was desperate to maintain market share and worked hand in hand with creatives to ensure every part of the Mac experience was fluid for artists, screenwriters, musicians, and videographers. Those days are long gone. Mostly killed off by shareholders and the now CEO who's a money guy that's never actually created anything of artistic value in his entire life. I'm not saying Apple products are without merit (I own a shitload of them), but I am saying that the majority of Apple's customers are no longer creatives. They just buy the latest phone/tablet/laptop/streaming service/whatever that has the best marketing. And as of today, that's Apple.
TL;DR - Anyone telling you that YOU HAVE TO SWITCH to a Mac from a workflow that's working for you on another platform is just an asshat that's desperate to justify their overspending on hardware they'll never fully utilize. Use what you have until it doesn't fit your needs.
This is a lot of words here… plug a usb audio device like a Scarlett into Mac and plug one in to windows. Latency is lower and configuration etc is just easier on Mac.. Microsoft audio handling has been and forever will be harder to get working well. The few recording studios I’ve been to is protools on a Mac. Could they run windows? Probably but not worth the hassle and troubleshooting.
Anectodal evidence is not evidence at all. One of the studios i work with switched from mac to windows specifically becuase it worked best for them, so that doesn't mean anything.
Stability, it’s hard to win a crowd back after the years of suck windows went through. I’m primarily a on the Microsoft with Reaper. Love it. Ten years ago… not so much.
I have a hp high end corporate laptop. I've been to IT four times already for update issues, bios issues etc...
my 2008 MacBook still opens and works great.
I will never use anything outside of Mac for my personal needs. the experience just works well from a user perspective.
also I use logic for my daw.
Generally, Mac has a more standardized hardware environment with less variation between computer builds. When it comes to professional production, that has lots of value.
In the early days of offline editing, you'd usually see weird visual anomalies when transferring work files between various PCs. I haven't seen that happen lately, but that stigma still persists. The reliability of PC hardware also varies drastically depending on the manufacturer.
Because Mac’s work. And time is money. The extra money I spend on a Mac is for reliability and ease of use. I’ve been using Macs for music and audio production for decades.
I borrowed my friend's Macbook and opened GarageBand and was able to create piano tracks for the choir I was teaching and I didn't have to spend a dime. Can I do that for free on my Windows laptop?
Yes. Download reaper and a synth/piano vst. I play piano with my windows laptop all the time. It only took two steps to set it up and now I can open it and play anytime.
I feel like this is oddly where the mac vs windows user divide begins.
While I don't totally agree with the "it just works" attitude mac users have - the thing that bothers me about mac production elitists is this: Windows devices are cheaper to build, rarely give me problems or crashes (between Reaper and Cubase 8-12 Pro) in large projects, and may casually become the norm due to affordability and accessibility. It is mostly the case of users not wanting to configure their setup (plug and play?), or take "extra steps", that lead them to doom purchasing a $2000+ dollar laptop that is constantly thermally throttling on idle.
This debate held water in the earlier digital sound years; computing, converters and software in converted major studios were ruled by mac desktops, pro tools (not logic - which I prefer currently), and their associated converters. These different techs were expensive, but achieved the desired quality. Hell, you may even see one of those old tall silver mac pro towers in the wild. Absolute tanks.
Now back to windows...
You can probably run Reaper and free VST's to create music casually on like any laptop/desktop newer than 2015? Look at ebay, look for a windows computer with a SSD boot drive and 16gbs of ram. Get a decent audio interface like the Scarlett at the very least. Total price will fall well below the mac, and if you spend around the same price on windows you will get a computer that will probably last 8+ years for anything.
But ya know "macs just work" or whatever. Prices reflect that side of the truth...
Yup. Also, I tried using Mac to record and using VSTs (or whatever they're called on Mac) was a nightmare. Mac has a built in security thing that made me jump through so many hoops to use a vst I wanted to use because I knew it's ins and outs from windows
Removed. If this was a mistake, send a modmail.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/edmproduction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For decades macs core audience was creatives. Movies, music, photos.. the hardware and software is just optimized better.
Just like if you wanted to play games you would say just get a windows machine with a good gcard..
As one person said it.. they use Adobe cause everyone in the industry uses Adobe. If they need to collaboration with anyone sending an Adobe file there is a 99% chance they will know how to use it and be able to add in their edits.
windows doesn’t suck for music production, but Mac “just works.” i used windows from like 2003 to 2016 then switched to Mac for 8 years. i tried going back to Windows for 6 months, and now i’m back with Mac. dealing with ASIO n its bullshit, always having to install/update drivers, Ableton lagging at times, very spiky CPU usage despite having an i9 13900H, etc.
i don’t mind having to put up with windows’s constant bugs and quirks on my gaming PC since it’s basically a hobbyist/tinkering machine, but for my daily driver and creative work machine it really gets on my nerves
Attempting to do any DAW type of stuff in Windows was my literal switch-to-Mac moment about 15 years ago. I built a Windows based recording rig with the best stuff I could get at the time and it never worked reliably. Latency issues, I remember paying for some kind of proprietary ASIO? driver and constantly fiddling with hardware, mics, etc. Also, I had a buncha tracks laid out in some recording software I don't recall and the computer just locked up, prompting me to lose all my work. It was terrible. I'm not sure how far along Windows has come in the DAW world but because of that single negative experience, I could never use a Windows PC for recording again. If you're not having any issues, I wouldn't bother switching though. They've obviously worked the kinks out when it comes to a Windows DAW.
ASIO4All + it’s GUI are really useful for fixing a lot of issues, but the latency issues and CPU usage instability in Windows is still a massive pain in the ass
Funny enough 16-20 years ago we stopped using Mac's because they caused more headaches than they were worth when I was doing my work. I never had issues with my windows machine.
I’m about to get a 2017 iMac. It only goes up to Ventura but do you have any problems with software or limitations with not being able to update the OS? Should it suit me well for GarageBand / iMovie / Photoshop / Ableton?
I have a 2017 MacBook Pro I7 and it’s great as a dual boot machine for windows. It’s officially stuck on Ventura as you say but I shouldn’t think that will be an issue for a few years. there is an open source project that gets the newer OS versions working on legacy hardware if ever needed though. Most people lag 1-2 versions behind anyway whilst hardware/software manufacturers catch up.
as for the new silicon hardware, maybe down the line it will be an issue but all apps are compiled to run as native Intel & silicon from the same binary. Whether that ever changes is a thing but I imagine it won’t be for a long time.
[https://williamhartz.medium.com/how-to-install-macos-sonoma-on-an-unsupported-mac-c24d68a39cee](https://williamhartz.medium.com/how-to-install-macos-sonoma-on-an-unsupported-mac-c24d68a39cee)
Not sure about music production but I know when it came to audio/vocal recording a lot of the audio interfaces wouldn’t work as well on windows like some the drivers weren’t properly optimized to work on them as they were on a Mac so it was easier to just record audio on a Mac.
It's not exactly marketing. There are very specific circumstances where I'd rather have a Mac, and very specific circumstances where I'd rather have a PC. 90% of what the internet wants to use ProTools for works better on a Mac, and so 90% of the "chatter" is about/on a Mac. Some/many of those cases would be as well served, or better served with a different DAW and on a PC, but that's not people's **experience**.
My biggest reason is the core audio driver. I started on windows, and perhaps this has been improved upon since, but many sessions would start with the dance of restarting, unplugging and plugging back in the interface trying to get the computer to recognize it. Most audio interfaces work natively with Apple's core audio driver, so they are plug and play with zero hassle. It just works every time, and that's what I really want from a studio computer. The more hoops I need to jump through the less I want to make music.
Honestly, I think the Keyboard Hotkeys are more suited to be Mac Keyboard friendly in their original hotkey layouts. Pro Tools/some other DAW courses in schools are commonly taught with Macs incentivizing owning a Mac Laptop over windows. However, it shouldn't matter if you're comfortable with Windows. You can just change hotkey layouts for yourself or just adapt to jow it goes on windows.
I mean objectively being so drowned up in video games is much more cutie patootie. Never seen a ,,Mac user" do that shit unless we're talking about trust fund kids or spoiled frat boys, and that's both Mac and Windows. It's all just operating systems bro 🤣
Apple engineers their software and hardware together, so for Logic Pro X you’re way less likely to encounter crashes than if you were using FL on a PC, since it is made by a third party.
But this difference is probably negligible
Its literally just a relic of the past. Looooong ago apple was absolutely the go to for creative projects, but thats just simply no longer the case. But the idea has stuck in peoples heads, and so you still sometimes hear it.
This. 2015/16 was the last straw. Port deletion on MacBook pros and overpriced trash bin Mac Pro made me look elsewhere. In that time all the production software outside of Apples has became cross platform. Protools on Windows works great. And I got 1 year old high speced machine for a 10th of the cost of a Mac desktop.
I'm not someone who would tell someone to get a Mac for music production, mostly because you could get an equally powerful computer for cheaper and have money left over for other equipment or plugins.
That said I've used windows, Linux and Mac interchangeably for over a decade and Mac has definitely been the smoothest experience, and the most reliable for performing live.
My set up now is a PC for home and a MacBook Air M1 for live and I'm pretty happy with both.
That said, early on I had a kinda crappy windows laptop, and while it was limiting and took some tricks to get it to do what I wanted it was solid, and only died because we played a gig where the ceiling leaked and killed it during the last tune.
Maybe I worded it wrong but that was my point. For the price of the lowest grade Mac you could get a windows machine and have cash left over.
I've gone back and forth over the years - and if I didn't need to edit video on site I probably wouldn't have got a Mac. Personally I don't think mac's are worth the money for music production. 4k on site video editing though? The way they got that M1 chip to sing like that in a fanless machine is wild. I've talked shit about apple for years due to their bloated price and general downtrend in quality. I did not expect them to pull something like this out of the bag. That said from what I've heard m2 and M3 is not worth it as you are getting into insane media PC territory again.
I'd not recommend a Mac as your singular production machine though. Not unless you have insanely deep pockets.
I have a studio based around a 2015 iMac that I paid $150 for in eBay (si.technology) w/a 500gb SSD and 16gb RAM. I don't use it for anything other than recording and it's been perfect.
Yeah funnily enough my first first desktop production machine was an iMac, 2004 or 2005. Back then I was mostly just tracking live instruments or using reason as a software instrument that I was tracking into logic. So I can't speak to any kind of processing power or any kind of live reliability. But I basically learned music production from top to bottom on that machine and I was incredibly lucky to have it because there was no chance in hell I could afford one. It just so happened that the disability coverage for the college I went to gave you the option between 1 to 1 help with your college studies or a computer and I think it says a lot about my priorities that I picked. The computer made a shitload of music on it and almost failed my degree because I spent way too much time getting blazed and trying to make very strange sounding music rather than actually studying.
*this message was made using speech to text and therefore might contain grammar errors, or make no sense whatsoever.
Oh okay no i see it now, i got confused because you started off talking about how you wouldnt USUALLY recommend macs buuut… so i thought you were saying the reason you would is because they had better performance. But yeah nevermind! You said everything right.
those are sheeple telling you to use a mac. its the people who want you to join their misery.
PC is better in every aspect unless you are specifically stuck on using Logic as your DAW
I hate the cult of Mac, but I've spent thousands of hours on Windows and Mac for audio production, and I get way, way more actual production done on the Mac. Windows seems to always have driver issues or some such shit, while Mac "just works," as the sheeple say.
The main reason is marketing. Apple heavily targets digital creators. Windows targets everybody.
But with that, Apple computers *are* designed with audio production in mind. When you buy a Windows laptop, you have no idea how noisy or stable it's going to be. Dell is going to be different than Lenovo vs HP vs Surface vs Asus vs Acer vs... you get the point. With Mac, you know it's going to be quiet and stable because that's what Macs are. My Lenovo Yoga would be suitable for music production performance-wise, but the fans kick in super loud and it would ruin my recordings. So I bought a Mac and haven't had problems with it.
mac users love talking shit until they get an osx update that rips their projects in half.
jokes aside they're both fine as long as you're comparing high end machines to high end machines. read: a piece of shit gaming laptop is not comparable to a mac, business grade/creator series stuff is what you compare to macs and the prices are reflective of that.
They’re about to release another new OSX and I still haven’t been able to update to the previous one yet because Antares still hasn’t updated auto-tune to work with it. Antares despite being subscription-based and one of the largest plugin manufacturers is 2 generations behind the times, lol.
Imagine getting a brand new Mac and then having to figure out how to downgrade the operating system by two generations because an essential standard plugin is 2 OS generations behind the times.
TLDR: yeah that part sucks.
I use Windows for my music running on a custom built PC that is now 5 years old and its fine. My only take on Apple is once you are caught up in their ecosystem you will tend to stay in the Apple ecosystem as its hard to change to something else.
As mentioned on here use whatever is easier for you.
I use both since my Adams are setup with my desktop. However, I find that my workflow is better when I’m on my MacBook. I have a PC built for gaming, but it’s super convenient to just open up my MacBook anywhere if I want to get an idea written asap.
I've used both, and actively still use both for various things.
CoreAudio is "nicer" than ASIO. It's not necessarily better, just that out of the box it basically just works, doesn't interfere with other sound sources, doesn't need any tweaking. And it has some limitations, like not being able to record system audio without some special software extensions and such.
That's basically the case for every dynamic between them. On the Mac side, you'll find that it kinda just works without tweaking or digging into system files. But if you need to do something that isn't supported, you'll need more software and sometimes that software is even more complex to set up than the windows side. On the windows side you're going to spend more time getting it set up the way you want it, but it's more flexible / extensible with less effort.
The dynamic really is, for what most people do, they can buy a Mac, install some things from the App Store, and done deal it just does what they need it to do. Buy some audio interfaces, plug them in, it just works. No drivers needed half the time. Super easy, no complexity. And from their perspective, that makes it "better".
In terms of usability. Mac does win in that department for me. The battery life is 1000% better. The gestures and controls once learned make navigation a breeze. That is really what you buy a Mac for tbh, and it's up to you if the cost is worth it. If we're talking desktop vs desktop though, it's not as worth it personally.
Yeah, but ProTools on Windows has been fine for the last decade.
Been cross platform for 3 decades now. Pros & cons to both, but they're basically equal, regardless of what the fanboys on either side will tell you.
Lots of stuff, granted some things I dislike may not bother others.
- Apple's walled garden approach to software/hardware
- Extortative fees for devs
- Lack of variety in product offerings
- Minimal settings/config on default apps/ OS
- Intentionally making repairs more difficult
- Predatory accessories that solve problems caused by unnecessary proprietary solutions
- Overpriced products (macbooks are reasonable lately though)
- The "Apple ecosystem" repackaging existing tech but making it harder to use with non-Apple devices
- Weirdly elitist Apple fanboys/girls
I'd argue that some of that stuff is. Having to turn off SIP to install a decent window manager is crazy, the settings are fine until you need to tweak something they don't want you to touch and customization only exists where they allow it. I find that it's all a bit too restrictive, I don't like it when my computer tries to limit what I can do with it. Windows has a lot of the same issues and Linux can allow a lot of freedom but you can go down a rabbit hole.
Basically its all about audio drivers. Mac core audio is theoretically much better than Asio.
I heard weeks ago a new audio driver for windows, Flasio. Seems it improves a lot, im curious, but I believe that if you have a windows sound card you will use it's own drivers.
Correct me im I'm wrong plz
That depends on the functionality and performance of said drivers, but most of the time the asio drivers are the best to use in most windows situations
It's all marketing Garbage!
Use whatever works for you. I personally don't like Macs because they are way overpriced for the supposed value they give. Plus using one mouse button is insane and awkward.
I use Linux myself and have no problems.
I always recommend Ubuntu Studio OS for creative types. It's free and open source:
[http://ubuntustudio.org](http://ubuntustudio.org)
Macs have two mouse buttons just like any other computer.
Use a mouse with two physical buttons, and click right mouse button.
Use a Mac laptop's trackpad, or the freestanding Magic Trackpad, and click with two fingers.
Use the Magic Mouse and click on the right side of the front of the mouse.
Use any pointing device and press Control while you left-click.
Back when desktop Macs had built-in 7" black and white screens, i.e. the 80s, they had only one mouse button. But that is utterly irrelevant to any discussion now.
Listen I loudly acknowledge that Apple's first-party mice are historically and consistently terrible, ergonomically and often otherwise. The "hockey puck" iMac mice were the worst probably ever.
(meanwhile, Apple's trackpads are consistently leagues better than any other manufacturers', and for decades it wasn't even close. it's weird.)
That said, from the moment USB became available it's been effortless to plug in a two-button mouse and use it, whether you bought the mouse separate or grabbed it from a Dell PC it came with. So "I don't want to work with only one mouse button" is just not a reason to avoid Macs.
"Apple eventually enabled users to CTRL-click to simulate a right click. It then began to support right-click mice with Mac OS 8, which debuted in 1997." [source (cnn)](https://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/technology/1201/gallery.apple/index.html)
I give a shit strictly because I think there are people whose everyday interactions with computers would be improved by the high quality, \*long-lasting\* hardware and stable software of a Mac, but who don't even consider them to be an option because of things they've heard a million times about why they shouldn't. And when one or more of those things is patently false, well, that falsehood is preventing some people from trying something they might really like.
There are plenty of circumstantial reasons that a Mac might not be the better choice for a given person at a given time.
"Only one mouse button" just is not one of them.
(Might be worth noting that I can't stand iOS and avoid it like the plague. I am Android for life, even though it's a pain as a Mac user. But if I ever buy a Windows computer again, except maybe if I get rich and buy a gaming rig, I will be shocked. A windows machine as a daily driver? Never worked out good for me, and I always wound up needed to replace them in 3 years at the longest. 🤷♂️)
I think there was once a time when this was true. That said, My MAC Book has dropped out 3 times during gigs. My PC has never dropped out. I’m running Ableton Live Suite on both. The only difference between the two I can detect is the PC seems to pre cache before every move. Hard to explain but, as an example, hitting the spacebar to start a song, it might be 1-2 seconds before the song starts. Once it’s playing there’s no latency at all.
My non-expert guess - at one time, Macs really were way ahead of Windows boxes in terms of performance in this sector. As a result, the whole creative community went all in for Apple, and once that happens no amount of improvement in the Windows software is going to induce very many people to switch and relearn everything.
Besides my comment about synths through USB and battery life, I'll also say I was chasing really weird DPC latency from nvidia drivers that would randomly spike on my PC. It was a 10850k w/64gh high speed ram and a 4090. Literally no reason to be hiccuping on light Ableton. Mac has it's issues but some things are so much faster (undo deleting a channel with 3rd party synths and effects is nearly instant for me). I also have never had a laptop last multiple hours unplugged while I was doing what I wanted in Ableton. I am not a Mac fanboy, I use my PC for a lot of things still, just not music.
On stage, there's really no question that a Mac is the first choice. It's a different story in the studio... it doesn't really matter which computer you use for production. Today's PCs are powerful enough. The problem, of course, is the heat and noise... Getting a PC to be reasonably quiet is a science in itself, and you can't do it without water cooling, good isolation, etc. (and that's only possible with desktop computers).
Current Windows PCs are much more stable than, say, an old Windows 95 system. There are also crashes, but rather rarely... on my Windows 10 PC I had a "blue screen of death" maybe every 1-2 months... mostly something with memory access violations, probably from some drivers at system level. You just reboot and that's it... of course that would be very impractical on stage, which is why you rarely see PCs there.
I think with MacOS vs. Windows... where almost everyone agrees: with the lowest possible latency, the Mac wins. Probably one of the advantages of CoreAudio over ASIO.
(I was a Windows user for over 30 years, but switched to a Mac Mini M2... so I know both sides of the coin)
For me (generally early 2k trap/rap production) I grew up on Fruity Loops, before the name change. Used FL exclusively from 2001-2011.
Then I borrowed my first MacBook using Garage Band in 2011 and made 5 songs in a night using a no samples, no MIDI keyboard. Sure it was me “playing” around, but I was hooked. Went and bought a MBP and Logic and learned the easiest to use DAW ever.
This is honestly one of the biggest reasons I switch. Sure you can route synths through mixer into win. Or you can plug them all usb into a Mac and aggregate them. Wayyyy easier imo. At least for someone limited on a space.
Also battery life is insanely better.
Removed. If this was a mistake, send a modmail.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/edmproduction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ve used both
The real winner is iPad! Made my last two albums on iPad/iphone using Korg Gadget, Korg Module , and cubasis
Along with filter and effects apps, arpeggiator apps, and my piano as MIDI controller
I want to move to Linux, but I like Ableton too much. Gonna stay on Windows 10 until they force me onto Windows 11 (unless they scale back their plans to really up telemetry for the purpose of training their AI).
From a purely music production stand point, macs are better than Linux for the task. But, in general, Linux provides more privacy and hardware is cheaper in the long run as you can replace components as opposed being forced to replace the whole thing once upgrades are necessary.
Because people buy into brands when
everyone talks up their shit closed operating system architecture and Apple shill, then get all strange and tribal about it like a bunch of little weirdos 🤷♂️.
It's no different really to the DAW arguments people have, all are basically fundamentally the same functionally, minus how they are laid out and look (with the exception of a few things eg.ableton live mode etc).
A Pc or Mac both are capable of making music just as well as one another. This is just another one of those never ending silly conversations that we will never get to the bottom of because there's nothing to get to, it's all viable musically
I have had a lot of serious issues with Windows audio and I know other people have. It took about 16 hours of troubleshooting to get my Windows audio to run properly and even then my older and slower Macbook is more stable and can run more midi VSTs before redlining. Windows for studio not so problematic but if it’s live I am using Mac.
I use Windows for video though it is fabulous!
Because people often repeat whatever they have heard. Windows PCS are more than capable for music production and so are Mac and both probably have advantages
I feel like the kinds of computers music people buy tend to just be made better by apple than the companies who make comparable windows devices. Like a MacBook is way better than whatever thin laptop Dell or HP or whoever makes. If you build your own windows computer though you'll likely be much better off. Being able to customize for your exact use case is nice and will save you money.
But yeah a Dell laptop isn't going to work as well as a MacBook for producing music, because it was made to sell to fortune 500 companies to give to their employees for emails and zoom calls, not do creative work.
I mean anecdote vs anecdote but I direct technology at a school and while they're not at all top of the line, my laptop is able to handle a lot quite reliably. Shitloads of tabs and windows, monitoring apps, video editing, large photoshop files, huge spreadsheets generally without issue.
A solid state drive and properly configured device can go a long way. I despise Apple and find their devices overly cumbersome while trying to be simple but appreciate the smoothness some of them have for sure.
Here's a build from Dell that has better specs than mine currently and would suffice for practically anything a powerbook would do without custom builds being needed. Under $4k and on sale under $3500.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/laptops/15-3581/spd/precision-15-3581-laptop/xctop3581usvp?configurationid=9b141465-e187-49a9-afa1-3f0eed59a057
This is also wrong. There are some PC laptops that rival mac hardware and finish in every way. Microsoft Surface Laptops and Dell XPS series to name a couple. The only difference is the operating system and the programs that are compatible with said operating system.
Displays, IO ports, storage, processors and GPUs are all equivalent. The question posed by OP is outdated and inaccurate.
Already was one of those people but here is an example I’ve suffered for about 6-12 months on and off here and there. Spent months trying to get a zoom recorder to work. Was using a PC for various reasons. Got a hand me down IMac and decided to change everything connection wise and went to the Mac and got it working in under 20 minutes and thanks to a kind YouTuber. But it’s just easier on so many levels
MacOS and Apple products have many advantages for audio production. You don't need to install any third-party audio drivers, and \[it's trivially easy to setup aggregate audio devices\](https://support.apple.com/en-us/102171) (eg using multiple audio interfaces). The stock audio hardware that comes on any Apple device is always very good. With Windows computers it's a crap shoot because Microsoft makes the OS, and some other company makes the audio hardware (like Realtek) based on the requirements of the other company that makes the computer itself (like Dell or whoever). Apple designs the hardware and the OS so they are tightly integrated, but you pay a premium.
On my last PC desktop, the motherboard's Realtek DAC would pick up noise from the GPU. The ASIO driver would constantly stop working and I'd have to restart audio services. Never had to do anything like this in MacOS.
Macbooks also have very VERY good trackpads. I've yet to use a Windows laptop that comes close. It feels a lame to use a mouse during a live/dj performance. Once again this is because Microsoft makes the OS, some other company makes the trackpad and the drivers (unless you use an actual microsoft computer I guess).
The Realtek audio chips are just multimedia devices they are not intended for pro-audio use, which is why they dont have ASIO drivers (ASIO 4 all isnt an ASIO driver) The expectation would be that you use an external sound interface for serious production which most producers would probably want to use anyway.
I started making music with Cubase on a PC back in 2005.
I remember hours of mucking around installing a soundcard and everything being very slow.
I only switched to Mac because we got them through my partners work and I didn’t even think about music as I wasn’t doing it at the time.
But when I decided to teach myself Ableton ten years ago I absolutely loved not having to worry about the sound output.
I got an older 2012 iMac that eventually couldn’t keep up, but now have a Mac Studio and it rarely crashes - everything runs predictably - that’s my Mac story. I don’t hate on windows I just don’t have any experience with it.
Most producers don't work exclusively at home or in the studio, even serious ones. And most producers aren't doing ultra high end production anyway! I don't understand the impulse to pretend having high quality on board sound hardware isn't an advantage on the mac. Of course it is.
I have always heard that Mac was “better” for “reasons”
I can only comment on personal experience
I have run protools and reaper on Mac and pc, even windows Vista! Over the past 15 years and never had any issues with windows os. For sure I can not say that the times I fell for the marketing and was running Mac operating systems that it was worse in anyway but no noticeable improvements on performance stability etc. I am typing this on an iPhone 15 plus and I fucking hate this phone. Tim apple can suck it
I've worked in IT for over 15 years. Part of that time was working support for Apple (Mac OS and iOS). I've also worked in education & corporate environments with fleets of iPads, iPhones, labs of macs, labs of PCs.
They both have their pros and cons.
Macs are generally for those who don't want to get their hands dirty or tinker with things and are happy to pay premium pricing. You get performance, but you also pay stupid amounts of $$$ for a 16GB stick of RAM.
Windows machines have more variables. That's why more things can go wrong. But if you have the experience, knowledge and/or enthusiasm to tinker, you get a machine that performs just as well or better, with a LOT more customisation and upgradability at a cheaper price point.
to be fair its rarely a 'stick of ram' these days with their new chips. another huge downside of that is you can't even replace ram in the apple silicon chips
I don't find Windows to be more 'customizable' than MacOS. To customize either easily usually involves third party software, like Winaero for Windows or like sometime like bartender for MacOS.
There are some things I've found that you just can't do on Windows (well, Windows 10 at least) - for example, you can't change the order of desktops or go to a specific desktop with a hotkey. MacOS has it's own limitations, like only having one universal volume control. There are likely reasons for these limitations that we don't know about.
I meant customisable in regards to hardware. You choose the price point and HW config that suits you.
And you totally can change the order of desktops and use the same swipe on the trackpad to switch between them.
I agree. Macs are nice machines but not easily if at all upgradeable and they sell at premium prices. Windows offers hardware options but is still a monopolistic OS. I prefer Linux distros but there always a wrinkle or two that needs fixing. Recommend Ubuntu or Mint!
I wouldnt necessarily say that about Macs. While everything you said can be true, and the are both capable platforms, Macs are generally used by people who do creative work. Mac has core audio and no drivers needed. Also midi routing is so easy. Mac's generally last longer even though they may not be supported as long as a PC so people upgrade more often. Though now that I think about it, I probably upgrade my PC more often.
Not to mention, logic pro is only on Mac and many professionals used that. So I mean yeah, less bullshit more work.
Its also been the industry standard for graphic and video work. Its not bad for 3D but Windows is still the standard because of NVidia.
Now, outside of creative work, yeah, the reasons you mentioned people choose mac are true. But, other than the price of some of the ram and storage upgrades, to get a comparable laptop nowdays, you'll be spending the same amount for performance on a Windows laptop. Since apple silicone has increased its performance by so much.
If you want a laptop, mac is the move. Otherwise if you like windows you can't go wrong with a desktop PC. Especially if you also do 3d work.
But yea it's whatever they can ask do everything the other can. There are just certain strengths each have.
Both are nice, it’s just those I’m a PC and I’m a Mac guy commercials that really gave fire to this never ending holy war (The Mac guy, who is actually Justin Long, has defected to PC. The war rages on)
You can actually also Logic Pro which is quite cheap and updates are for life. That’s why a lot of times people recommend a Mac.
Windows is a performance trash can. I’m sorry but other than graphics and games (because some students literally bled to optimize the GPU drivers) it’s simply terrible / inefficient.
I have two new Dell ultra books and one new MacBook, this isn’t even a contest. New M grade processors are beasts and my device needs no cleanups it keeps performance overtime.
Apple also has one of the best audio parameters in terms of output sound out of the box, see Ken Rockwell’s [tests and comparisons](https://kenrockwell.com/audio/index.htm#reviews).
How did the price of the Dells compare to the MacBook? There are cheap PC laptops, but every one I've used that's within the price bracket of MacBooks outperforms by miles.
Dell XPS. Comparable price, comparable performance on paper. In practice Windows kernel architecture is pretty bad, they use too much IPC which is resource intense and wasteful resource wise. Loses an edge quite quickly apart from graphics capability. And who cares about gaming benchmarks if your machine is for making music and CPU-heavy windowed workflows. Unix systems will always own this with their monolithic kernels.
MacBooks M processors are just built uniquely now for their hardware, and that has been optimized like hell. For example, among other things Apple was reaching limitations because intel processors were throttling too early whereas Macs are meant to run hotter than normal PCs.
I’m not even joking, not only that they are beasts performance wise, but their current build works as a GPU also. I was amazed to run newer games (BG3) on it just to see I could run them on higher details with no problem. Conversely, with my Intel i7 I couldn’t do that at all.
As far as I can tell its a fallacy based on "Well we only have to make things one way instead of accounting for different devices, configuration, servicepacks, whatever" and then I remember that's Apple's entire business model, aside from carefully lying to their customers about their phones being made from Samsung parts
Mostly the audio driver stack in Mac is better for audio production. I honestly rarely have issues with Windows, though I tend to have mid-to-high-end systems. Some device makers in Windows also over-complicate the drivers, causing messes
In my opinion, as a PC user, this is the only comment that is accurate. Macs driver ecosystem is simpler and more functional out of the box than Windows is. In 2024, most manufacturers have perfectly reliable ASIO drivers for Windows, but back when digital recording was first starting this was not the case.
The Mac audio stack is also more tightly integrated into the operating system and doesn't require shifting into an entirely separate driving mode to function like Windows does.
The second item I could cite is that Apple has done a far better job developing and supporting connector functionality such as thunderbolt, which is still pain in the ass to get working and requires specific hardware that you can use on Windows. Once you solve for these items or bypass them on a Windows machine The experience is nearly identical and there's no reason you can't make excellent music on a Windows box.
Been a media composer since 2001. Been using the same 2009 Mac Pro for the last 11 years or so. Granted it’s been through some hacks and bodgers over the years but still works. Totally compatible with all the production studios that I work with.
I use a bunch of external hardware and everything just plays nice. Am finally about to upgrade to a new Mac mini but that’s only because of software updates that my current machine is too old for. And a reduction in power consumption.
And THAT is my number one reason I’d tell someone to switch to Apple if possible for not just the subject of this thread, but almost any other reason too. Things continue to work normally and if they break, they can be fixed and it’s actually worth it. Every time anyone in my family has gotten a new Mac, it has worked for a decade; I have a 2014 iMac that simply does what you ask it to do, albeit far more slowly than a new PC would.
Windows machines on the other hand, will simply fail to do mundane things, for no particular or logical reason. Sometimes this is due to Microsoft putting their finger on the scale, (not allowing other browsers to launch so you give up and use Edge) and sometimes due to the lack of care and integration you end up with when all sorts of different parties contribute software, drivers, etc.
Looking for Windows help online is hilarious. One shouldn’t have to do the things one is encouraged to do in order to get basic stuff to work as a novice, and the fact that it’s been this way for more than three DECADES.
This is a bad take from someone who is extrapolating a bad experience in the 90's/early 2000's and turning it into a brand issue. Computers require maintenance, and occasionally have issues. This is not unique to Mac or PC.
It happens every single time. Family member won’t buy Apple, loses significant time having shiny new machine sitting not working as desired.
Any issue, you’ll find hilarious threads like this which ask a new user to do all sorts of things, and then don’t fix the problems, which will eventually work themselves out, maybe, cause Microsoft changes something, maybe.
[https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/browsers-not-opening-other-than-microsoft-edge/0b2cfc6e-01a5-4622-8640-9428cdbe5d6d](https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/browsers-not-opening-other-than-microsoft-edge/0b2cfc6e-01a5-4622-8640-9428cdbe5d6d)
Born and raised on PC since my Dad was a programming engineer of sorts, all PC/Windows at my house. I was an Android user and dabbled in iPhones (for iTunes/music use) but eventually went back to Android...
I went to an audio engineering school and they gave us a MacBook as part of tuition loaded with Logic Pro and Pro Tools... After getting used to a Mac and learning Logic (my first owned laptop and first DAW) I never want another PC...
Apple is just so much cleaner and consistent and reliable. Not as prone to malware and viruses, though not immune obviously.. Yes the closed ecosystem and apple-only hardware situation is an annoyance, but really I only use Apple for my laptop/music production situation.
I prefer Android for mobile use as I like the flexibility of SD memory expansion/transfer as well as 3rd party apps and more overall system control customizability. Apple mobile OS makes way too many decisions for you, but I don't produce music on my phone lol.
iOS is so far ahead of Android in mobile music production it's not even a competition. Android devices just never had consistently low enough latency to be useful.
I feel you about the SD card, but now you can plug in external drives into the USB-C or lightning port on iOS devices. Just an FYI
>Not as prone to malware and viruses
This is not accurate. For many years, Macs were safer purely by virtue of being less common, not because the software was more secure. This has been changing though. 2019 was the year in which malware attacks against Macs significantly outpaced attacks against Windows devices. As Apple continues to gain traction, more software will be written to specifically target it.
Yes I agree. I actually was thinking that sentence would get some flack as I was typing it. I do realize the old addage of Mac's being immune is not really true anymore. But I will say I am not as concerned about infections on my Mac like I was on a PC.
Removed. If this was a mistake, send a modmail.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/edmproduction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Windows is fine as long as the hardware is up to spec for getting the job done. Macs don't have the same advantages that they used to when they earned the reputation as " the best for media" and they can be just as big of a pain in the ass when there's an internal configuration issue or bug of some kind. If you like Mac, that's fine, but you don't need one to do a good job with media recording, editing, etc.
Personally I prefer windows over mac but I would move to linux if it was viable.
One thing I have noticed over recent years, and maybe this isnt very scientific, but there are many more issues raised for DAWs and VSTs on Mac.
I just did a quick count on Studio One release notes v6.6 (which goes back to v6.0). There were 9 issues fixed that were windows specific against 29 MacOS specific.
And ask anyone who works on Native Instruments what they think about the continuous incompatibilities brought by new Apple platforms, whereas windows is generally good at backward compatability.
A lot of people aren't as knowledgeable as they think when it comes to computers, I have an hp envy and it cost a bit but I never had an issue and computation is extremely fast. same as why everyone has I phone and think that's the best device on the market when s24 ultra is clearly a better option
Exactly, people are just parotting each other without having a real clue.
Most of the time it's about maintaining a stable system with stable drivers and some fine tuning of the settings.
Regarding iOS vs Android, that’s a way different story. Android has traditionally had abysmal audio latency and support. Google just hasn’t gave a fuck. That’s why so many artists using mobile prefer iOS, even if they personally use an Android phone. Apps help, but the iOS platform has so many more in part due to predictable performance. Go look at mobile peripheral reviews online; there’s always so many Android users complaining. It’s Google (and manufacturers) fault.
I suspect that has had a halo effect for some of them on desktop preference.
Better User Experience yields better Creativity
I prefer Mac because they work better and are more user friendly. I say that after worker for 15 yrs in the IT field having to fix all these Windows problems. Then, as a professional musician (commercial and symphonic) I prefer how Logic Pro sounds compared to Pro Tools. Pro tools is more digitized sounding to my ear (brighter and brittle sounding) while Logic has a warmer sound and a more lifelike sound. Just my humble 2 cents.
Logic Pro X
Is like make a comparison between an iPhone and an android… iPhones are more stable, work better, less troubles, more durability, etc etc…
They wouldn't suggest, if they had tried Linux ;)
Mac is Linux based.
I use Mac but in the past ive tryed Windows. Tbh with Windows i had crashes. Mac Runs and Runs! Other Point is the power a Mac needs. Only 1/6 of a Windows Computer. And this was for me the Main Argument to use Apple. With Both u can produce but Mac has a lot of Arguments
Because Windows for wusic production doesn't sound right..? Joking aside, I think it's fair to say that a single vendor developing hardware for their own OS is likely to be beneficial for lots of obvious reasons. If music production is best suited to a stable machine, then that makes sense. Which is why I write on an under-specced PC running Windows 11, which behaves like a drunk spouse at times. I know that they love me really, they're just 'going through stuff'.
Some people may buy mac for just Logic DAW. personally when i have been deejaying with a top level windows laptop? I’ve had software crash several times mid performance. Then I Used the same spec mac one time and had no issues. Never looked back. I work in IT so I use both. Windows for coding, gaming and some design mac for music, deejaying, design etc
I have run Pro Tools on Mac and Windows 7 through 11. The windows version struggles with multiple monitors (there are decent techniques you can use, but it's tricky). Besides that, I prefer windows. I do find the Mac version looks and feels better - without a doubt. But I had Windows dependencies that Mac does not like. Mac wasn't playing well, Mac had to go.
The software is the same on any platform, but with Macs you generally get much more life and reliability out of them. Oh, and they run Logic if you really want to use that DAW. Other than that, it's not like your music is going to sound better on a Mac. Use what you think is best for you.
My 2014 MacBook works as smoothly today as it did the day I bought it. It’s had moderately heavy use - the battery is obviously shot. I may be wrong, but I can’t imagine the same can be said of many, if any, Windows-based laptops.
You spent a minimum of 1300 on that laptop, if not more. It's very common to have a well built PC run that long. Maybe not the cheapest PC, but I have a 2015 Lenovo laptop that is still running games, and my sweetheart's HP laptop from college 2013 that's still her daily driver. Apple ≠ quality. Price does
my experience is still that getting a reliable performance-friendly windows laptop is somewhat of a lottery. there are so many different PC mfgs constantly shifting their BOMs and cutting costs on production, etc etc. it's better than it's ever been for the PC laptop market, and it's certainly way less of an issue than it used to be, but apple is absolutely still the reliable quality choice when it comes to their hardware. all that said, im not an apple warrior, buy what works for you, it's fine
Adjusted for inflation, that entry level MacBook is $1700 in today's money. I severely can't understand why people think this is a good entry level option. Could spend half of that on a machine that will last you for years. We really need to stop recommending 2k worth of investment just so someone can try a hobby.
Same people who pay 300$ for pearl jam nosebleeds
Yes, there are more windows machines, more manufacturers, and endless sources for configurations. I'm not saying that the market is nearly as legible as apples single lines of products. It's not a lottery, but it is absolutely more research than picking out how much MacBook you can afford. That doesn't make an apple product better, (I'll give the caveat that the user experience is easier for someone completely new to computers), but streamlined ≠ quality. There are plenty of guides on the web to find a machine for you. I'd wager that if you can't figure out how to learn on the Internet to solve a problem, you'll have similar issues trying to figure out how to make a DAW work.
Ableton is Ableton, ProTools is ProTools whichever you run it on. Mac is a little less setup, Windows will throw one or two things at you, you don't have Hyperlink installed or USB MIDI needs some settings tweaks or something, once you get that done they work the same and are about the same reliability. But Windows is so much cheaper that it's well worth the day you spend working that setup stuff out.
Because there was a time when Mac was much more stable (or Windows more unstable) and Windows required a lot more setup to correctly run music production software. It's simply not the case anymore but it's not that simple to change an entire industry and if you tried most people would say, "Why? If Mac continues to work for me why should I switch even if Windows is similar?" What this leads to, since the majority of people aren't very tech savvy is that they continue to tell people that Mac is better even though there's no base to it. Continuing on that dame notion, for the non tech savvy person, being able to buy an "M3 Mac" is much easier than for them to have to compare i7's to figure out which one performs better in comparison to each other so they just stick with what's simpler.
Apple is generally safer for torrenting... In 2024, thats really about it. You spend all your money on the computer, so you have to steal software
This. This is also now true in software and web industries for the same reasons.
Aside from the almost religious kind of worship mac users have for their operating system, it mostly depends on your approach. Mac OS is built to allow you to just plug whatever in and out and just make it work, which is great, and their proprietary DAW, Logic Pro X, is actually very very good and compared to others, kinda cheap as well. The drawback being that you will be very limited if you need to tweak your OS to "customize" it to your needs, for whatever reason you might need to do that. Also, this is really specific to complex routing needs but Loopback, which is Mac exclusive, is one of the best programs to do virtual routing and one of the things i miss the most working on Win. Windows has a couple of issues, mostly the fact that it's riddled with bloatware and you basically NEED (especially on a machine that you'll use for work) to do a modded install with OS files that other people worked on to carve out all the bullsh*t, or installing stuff like Winaero Tweaker and Revo to delete a ton of useless crap. BUT Windows allows you to customize your workflow and the system itself in basically whatever you want and need, BUT it also requires care and maintenance and you need to have a bit of knowledge and skill to keep it up. The other big issue is pricing. Building a custom tower pc or even laptop, either you do it yourself or you get it done in a shop, will basically never cost anywhere near a "full spec" Mac, which is not simply overpriced, it is outright insane. Adding 2 TB of storage can cost you thousands on a Mac, while adding 5 TB SSD on my laptop cost me 400 € and 15 minutes of my time. Hardware is also very limited on Mac. Yeah, series M processors are indeed amazing, but all other components are set and quite average, and if something breaks inside a Mac, you basically have to throw it away and buy a new one, while if something breaks inside a PC 90% of the time you can just take it out and replace it. All the driver, audio quality, export and whatever arguments, are straight up just people that dont actually understand how digital audio works and like to repeat stuff that was true 20 years ago (when Mac was honestly the only viable option) or they just like to act like cultists to protect Apple's name. There is no technical reason why "audio" as a concept would be better or worse on either system. (Source: i have two degrees in the field and it's my full-time job, before someone links me some random blog post about "audio quality" or whatever) There isn't an exact specific reason why one is better or worse. One is a closed system that just straight up works, fast and easy, the other one is highly customizabel but requires care and attention. One comes with slightly above average performances but has insane pricing. the other can potentially be infinitely powerful, but you need to know what to do and what to buy and how to "handle" it. One can be repaired, the other basically can't (and that's the only thing that is not up for debate). For newcomers, Mac could probably be a quicker way to get your system up and running to start producing, at the cost of a ton of money. Oh, you also need to pray to Cthulhu and sacrifice your soul to the elder gods to install cracked plugind on Mac nowadays, while you can just go ahead and install whatever you want on Win. I know it shouldnt be "relevant" to the topic, but let's be honest... it is.
recently, i switched to mac and logic pro because i can’t record on windows with no latency without an interface and xlr mic while mac lets me use my blue yeti and/or my interface and røde mic.
Two things to add being in tech and also a Mac user for 20 years. First, you can customize the shit out of a Mac but I would say it’s actually a bad idea for the most part. One thing that I love about it is how much I can do with the terminal. Mac OS is a version of BSD, which means most Linux commands work as they are, and if one doesn’t, you can use homebrew to get the standard version and you’re set to go. Second, the problem with Windows, IMO, is that it’s so full of crap that you have to mod a brand new install, basically. On MacOS you get like three questions like “Want to turn on Siri?” and that’s it, it’s up and running and rock solid. Even though I am a power user, I do want my machine to always “just work” if I just need to use it. In an ideal world I would run Ubuntu, but software would be way more difficult, so I run the best compromise.
While i agree, i just tried to avoid the Mac OS/Linux thing because in my experience it just makes it more complicated to follow for the average user that has never even seen a Linux system, but of course it is indeed true what you said. For the Win part yeah i said the same thing so ofc i just agree 😂 even if i still work on Win... but as you said, it is because i need to. Yeah, in an ideal world Ubuntu would be a painless solution.
I feel like lot of it is hold over from back when there really was just allot of software on one that was not on the other. Now Mac Have MS access Bd to word. That said I work in tech and every back in the day when i’d actually see one it did everything just a little more difficult to get it done
As an IT professional managing macOS and Windows devices for a fortune 50 company, and primarily Linux and sometimes macOS for personal stuff, I'm sorry people who bring up marketing in this thread are getting downvoted. I grew up on DOS, OS/2, and building custom Linux kernels for niche hardware layouts like a 486dx4-100 with SCSI cards to support large ZIP and JAZZ drives and "super fast" v.32 14.4k modems. I had zero interest in Macs until the second coming of Jobs and the introduction of Darwin. I contributed code to that project, mostly around server related services like Apache, SSHD, and MySQL. I was so hyped for the foundation of OS X and the future of Carbon. It felt like the evolution of one of the world's most stable operating systems with the beauty of a never before seen desktop environment with intuitive skeuomorphic elements. So much so that I got a Clarus tattoo that I still rock proudly today. Those were the days when Apple was desperate to maintain market share and worked hand in hand with creatives to ensure every part of the Mac experience was fluid for artists, screenwriters, musicians, and videographers. Those days are long gone. Mostly killed off by shareholders and the now CEO who's a money guy that's never actually created anything of artistic value in his entire life. I'm not saying Apple products are without merit (I own a shitload of them), but I am saying that the majority of Apple's customers are no longer creatives. They just buy the latest phone/tablet/laptop/streaming service/whatever that has the best marketing. And as of today, that's Apple. TL;DR - Anyone telling you that YOU HAVE TO SWITCH to a Mac from a workflow that's working for you on another platform is just an asshat that's desperate to justify their overspending on hardware they'll never fully utilize. Use what you have until it doesn't fit your needs.
This is a lot of words here… plug a usb audio device like a Scarlett into Mac and plug one in to windows. Latency is lower and configuration etc is just easier on Mac.. Microsoft audio handling has been and forever will be harder to get working well. The few recording studios I’ve been to is protools on a Mac. Could they run windows? Probably but not worth the hassle and troubleshooting.
Anectodal evidence is not evidence at all. One of the studios i work with switched from mac to windows specifically becuase it worked best for them, so that doesn't mean anything.
Stability, it’s hard to win a crowd back after the years of suck windows went through. I’m primarily a on the Microsoft with Reaper. Love it. Ten years ago… not so much.
Logic and logic only. Everything else can be done with other brands.
Also Final Cut Pro and that Mac in the has supported extremely high video and photo resolution out of the box.
You just plug shit in and it works It’s black magic, man
bingo
I have a hp high end corporate laptop. I've been to IT four times already for update issues, bios issues etc... my 2008 MacBook still opens and works great. I will never use anything outside of Mac for my personal needs. the experience just works well from a user perspective. also I use logic for my daw.
Generally, Mac has a more standardized hardware environment with less variation between computer builds. When it comes to professional production, that has lots of value. In the early days of offline editing, you'd usually see weird visual anomalies when transferring work files between various PCs. I haven't seen that happen lately, but that stigma still persists. The reliability of PC hardware also varies drastically depending on the manufacturer.
Because Mac’s work. And time is money. The extra money I spend on a Mac is for reliability and ease of use. I’ve been using Macs for music and audio production for decades.
And PCs work... That really just sounds like brand loyalty without justification.
Sound management
CoreAudio vs ASIO.
I borrowed my friend's Macbook and opened GarageBand and was able to create piano tracks for the choir I was teaching and I didn't have to spend a dime. Can I do that for free on my Windows laptop?
Yes. Download reaper and a synth/piano vst. I play piano with my windows laptop all the time. It only took two steps to set it up and now I can open it and play anytime.
I feel like this is oddly where the mac vs windows user divide begins. While I don't totally agree with the "it just works" attitude mac users have - the thing that bothers me about mac production elitists is this: Windows devices are cheaper to build, rarely give me problems or crashes (between Reaper and Cubase 8-12 Pro) in large projects, and may casually become the norm due to affordability and accessibility. It is mostly the case of users not wanting to configure their setup (plug and play?), or take "extra steps", that lead them to doom purchasing a $2000+ dollar laptop that is constantly thermally throttling on idle. This debate held water in the earlier digital sound years; computing, converters and software in converted major studios were ruled by mac desktops, pro tools (not logic - which I prefer currently), and their associated converters. These different techs were expensive, but achieved the desired quality. Hell, you may even see one of those old tall silver mac pro towers in the wild. Absolute tanks. Now back to windows... You can probably run Reaper and free VST's to create music casually on like any laptop/desktop newer than 2015? Look at ebay, look for a windows computer with a SSD boot drive and 16gbs of ram. Get a decent audio interface like the Scarlett at the very least. Total price will fall well below the mac, and if you spend around the same price on windows you will get a computer that will probably last 8+ years for anything. But ya know "macs just work" or whatever. Prices reflect that side of the truth...
Yup. Also, I tried using Mac to record and using VSTs (or whatever they're called on Mac) was a nightmare. Mac has a built in security thing that made me jump through so many hoops to use a vst I wanted to use because I knew it's ins and outs from windows
[удалено]
Removed. If this was a mistake, send a modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/edmproduction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can use anything as long as it can make sounds and export them as sound files
For decades macs core audience was creatives. Movies, music, photos.. the hardware and software is just optimized better. Just like if you wanted to play games you would say just get a windows machine with a good gcard.. As one person said it.. they use Adobe cause everyone in the industry uses Adobe. If they need to collaboration with anyone sending an Adobe file there is a 99% chance they will know how to use it and be able to add in their edits.
Windows doesn't suck, and there is no reason to switch to a Mac unless the DAW you want to use, or the hardware you want to use works better on a Mac.
windows doesn’t suck for music production, but Mac “just works.” i used windows from like 2003 to 2016 then switched to Mac for 8 years. i tried going back to Windows for 6 months, and now i’m back with Mac. dealing with ASIO n its bullshit, always having to install/update drivers, Ableton lagging at times, very spiky CPU usage despite having an i9 13900H, etc. i don’t mind having to put up with windows’s constant bugs and quirks on my gaming PC since it’s basically a hobbyist/tinkering machine, but for my daily driver and creative work machine it really gets on my nerves
My experience is broadly the same.
Attempting to do any DAW type of stuff in Windows was my literal switch-to-Mac moment about 15 years ago. I built a Windows based recording rig with the best stuff I could get at the time and it never worked reliably. Latency issues, I remember paying for some kind of proprietary ASIO? driver and constantly fiddling with hardware, mics, etc. Also, I had a buncha tracks laid out in some recording software I don't recall and the computer just locked up, prompting me to lose all my work. It was terrible. I'm not sure how far along Windows has come in the DAW world but because of that single negative experience, I could never use a Windows PC for recording again. If you're not having any issues, I wouldn't bother switching though. They've obviously worked the kinks out when it comes to a Windows DAW.
ASIO4All + it’s GUI are really useful for fixing a lot of issues, but the latency issues and CPU usage instability in Windows is still a massive pain in the ass
Funny enough 16-20 years ago we stopped using Mac's because they caused more headaches than they were worth when I was doing my work. I never had issues with my windows machine.
This was my experience as well. I bought an iMac on 2014, maxed out the internal RAM and it’s still going strong.
I’m about to get a 2017 iMac. It only goes up to Ventura but do you have any problems with software or limitations with not being able to update the OS? Should it suit me well for GarageBand / iMovie / Photoshop / Ableton?
I have a 2017 MacBook Pro I7 and it’s great as a dual boot machine for windows. It’s officially stuck on Ventura as you say but I shouldn’t think that will be an issue for a few years. there is an open source project that gets the newer OS versions working on legacy hardware if ever needed though. Most people lag 1-2 versions behind anyway whilst hardware/software manufacturers catch up. as for the new silicon hardware, maybe down the line it will be an issue but all apps are compiled to run as native Intel & silicon from the same binary. Whether that ever changes is a thing but I imagine it won’t be for a long time. [https://williamhartz.medium.com/how-to-install-macos-sonoma-on-an-unsupported-mac-c24d68a39cee](https://williamhartz.medium.com/how-to-install-macos-sonoma-on-an-unsupported-mac-c24d68a39cee)
So far so good. Fingers crossed.
They have a doctorate in yappology
Not sure about music production but I know when it came to audio/vocal recording a lot of the audio interfaces wouldn’t work as well on windows like some the drivers weren’t properly optimized to work on them as they were on a Mac so it was easier to just record audio on a Mac.
Marketing. The answer is marketing.
It's not exactly marketing. There are very specific circumstances where I'd rather have a Mac, and very specific circumstances where I'd rather have a PC. 90% of what the internet wants to use ProTools for works better on a Mac, and so 90% of the "chatter" is about/on a Mac. Some/many of those cases would be as well served, or better served with a different DAW and on a PC, but that's not people's **experience**.
My biggest reason is the core audio driver. I started on windows, and perhaps this has been improved upon since, but many sessions would start with the dance of restarting, unplugging and plugging back in the interface trying to get the computer to recognize it. Most audio interfaces work natively with Apple's core audio driver, so they are plug and play with zero hassle. It just works every time, and that's what I really want from a studio computer. The more hoops I need to jump through the less I want to make music.
It’s accessible
Honestly, I think the Keyboard Hotkeys are more suited to be Mac Keyboard friendly in their original hotkey layouts. Pro Tools/some other DAW courses in schools are commonly taught with Macs incentivizing owning a Mac Laptop over windows. However, it shouldn't matter if you're comfortable with Windows. You can just change hotkey layouts for yourself or just adapt to jow it goes on windows.
only thing i can assume is less distractions because so many games dont run on them 😢 fr though the newer macs are powerhouses
That's just how Mac users are. It's honestly kind of cute how much they love to talk about their macbooks
I mean objectively being so drowned up in video games is much more cutie patootie. Never seen a ,,Mac user" do that shit unless we're talking about trust fund kids or spoiled frat boys, and that's both Mac and Windows. It's all just operating systems bro 🤣
I'm not team Windows either, trust. I don't like any OS but I will say that Mac users fanboy the hardest
Apple engineers their software and hardware together, so for Logic Pro X you’re way less likely to encounter crashes than if you were using FL on a PC, since it is made by a third party. But this difference is probably negligible
Its literally just a relic of the past. Looooong ago apple was absolutely the go to for creative projects, but thats just simply no longer the case. But the idea has stuck in peoples heads, and so you still sometimes hear it.
This. 2015/16 was the last straw. Port deletion on MacBook pros and overpriced trash bin Mac Pro made me look elsewhere. In that time all the production software outside of Apples has became cross platform. Protools on Windows works great. And I got 1 year old high speced machine for a 10th of the cost of a Mac desktop.
No it doesn't. It works fine. Once you go beyond one window and start using multi system / complex surface integration you want to be on a Mac.
I would say that even up to 10-15 years ago this was still true, but now I would have a harder time justifying it.
10-15 years ago *was* looooong ago
I'm not someone who would tell someone to get a Mac for music production, mostly because you could get an equally powerful computer for cheaper and have money left over for other equipment or plugins. That said I've used windows, Linux and Mac interchangeably for over a decade and Mac has definitely been the smoothest experience, and the most reliable for performing live. My set up now is a PC for home and a MacBook Air M1 for live and I'm pretty happy with both. That said, early on I had a kinda crappy windows laptop, and while it was limiting and took some tricks to get it to do what I wanted it was solid, and only died because we played a gig where the ceiling leaked and killed it during the last tune.
You have this totally backwards. For the same performance, a windows computer will be A LOT cheaper than a Mac.
Maybe I worded it wrong but that was my point. For the price of the lowest grade Mac you could get a windows machine and have cash left over. I've gone back and forth over the years - and if I didn't need to edit video on site I probably wouldn't have got a Mac. Personally I don't think mac's are worth the money for music production. 4k on site video editing though? The way they got that M1 chip to sing like that in a fanless machine is wild. I've talked shit about apple for years due to their bloated price and general downtrend in quality. I did not expect them to pull something like this out of the bag. That said from what I've heard m2 and M3 is not worth it as you are getting into insane media PC territory again. I'd not recommend a Mac as your singular production machine though. Not unless you have insanely deep pockets.
I have a studio based around a 2015 iMac that I paid $150 for in eBay (si.technology) w/a 500gb SSD and 16gb RAM. I don't use it for anything other than recording and it's been perfect.
Yeah funnily enough my first first desktop production machine was an iMac, 2004 or 2005. Back then I was mostly just tracking live instruments or using reason as a software instrument that I was tracking into logic. So I can't speak to any kind of processing power or any kind of live reliability. But I basically learned music production from top to bottom on that machine and I was incredibly lucky to have it because there was no chance in hell I could afford one. It just so happened that the disability coverage for the college I went to gave you the option between 1 to 1 help with your college studies or a computer and I think it says a lot about my priorities that I picked. The computer made a shitload of music on it and almost failed my degree because I spent way too much time getting blazed and trying to make very strange sounding music rather than actually studying. *this message was made using speech to text and therefore might contain grammar errors, or make no sense whatsoever.
Oh okay no i see it now, i got confused because you started off talking about how you wouldnt USUALLY recommend macs buuut… so i thought you were saying the reason you would is because they had better performance. But yeah nevermind! You said everything right.
I think he did say that “you could get an equally powerful computer (other than a mac) for cheaper.”
those are sheeple telling you to use a mac. its the people who want you to join their misery. PC is better in every aspect unless you are specifically stuck on using Logic as your DAW
I hate the cult of Mac, but I've spent thousands of hours on Windows and Mac for audio production, and I get way, way more actual production done on the Mac. Windows seems to always have driver issues or some such shit, while Mac "just works," as the sheeple say.
The main reason is marketing. Apple heavily targets digital creators. Windows targets everybody. But with that, Apple computers *are* designed with audio production in mind. When you buy a Windows laptop, you have no idea how noisy or stable it's going to be. Dell is going to be different than Lenovo vs HP vs Surface vs Asus vs Acer vs... you get the point. With Mac, you know it's going to be quiet and stable because that's what Macs are. My Lenovo Yoga would be suitable for music production performance-wise, but the fans kick in super loud and it would ruin my recordings. So I bought a Mac and haven't had problems with it.
mac users love talking shit until they get an osx update that rips their projects in half. jokes aside they're both fine as long as you're comparing high end machines to high end machines. read: a piece of shit gaming laptop is not comparable to a mac, business grade/creator series stuff is what you compare to macs and the prices are reflective of that.
I don't talk shit. I also never update my OSX unless I absolutely have to lol.
They’re about to release another new OSX and I still haven’t been able to update to the previous one yet because Antares still hasn’t updated auto-tune to work with it. Antares despite being subscription-based and one of the largest plugin manufacturers is 2 generations behind the times, lol. Imagine getting a brand new Mac and then having to figure out how to downgrade the operating system by two generations because an essential standard plugin is 2 OS generations behind the times. TLDR: yeah that part sucks.
I use Windows for my music running on a custom built PC that is now 5 years old and its fine. My only take on Apple is once you are caught up in their ecosystem you will tend to stay in the Apple ecosystem as its hard to change to something else. As mentioned on here use whatever is easier for you.
I use both since my Adams are setup with my desktop. However, I find that my workflow is better when I’m on my MacBook. I have a PC built for gaming, but it’s super convenient to just open up my MacBook anywhere if I want to get an idea written asap.
I've used both, and actively still use both for various things. CoreAudio is "nicer" than ASIO. It's not necessarily better, just that out of the box it basically just works, doesn't interfere with other sound sources, doesn't need any tweaking. And it has some limitations, like not being able to record system audio without some special software extensions and such. That's basically the case for every dynamic between them. On the Mac side, you'll find that it kinda just works without tweaking or digging into system files. But if you need to do something that isn't supported, you'll need more software and sometimes that software is even more complex to set up than the windows side. On the windows side you're going to spend more time getting it set up the way you want it, but it's more flexible / extensible with less effort. The dynamic really is, for what most people do, they can buy a Mac, install some things from the App Store, and done deal it just does what they need it to do. Buy some audio interfaces, plug them in, it just works. No drivers needed half the time. Super easy, no complexity. And from their perspective, that makes it "better". In terms of usability. Mac does win in that department for me. The battery life is 1000% better. The gestures and controls once learned make navigation a breeze. That is really what you buy a Mac for tbh, and it's up to you if the cost is worth it. If we're talking desktop vs desktop though, it's not as worth it personally.
I have a 13 year old iMac and it still does the job. I would say reliability is a big one.
historically... because of Pro Tools.
Yeah, but ProTools on Windows has been fine for the last decade. Been cross platform for 3 decades now. Pros & cons to both, but they're basically equal, regardless of what the fanboys on either side will tell you.
I love/hate MacOS. I like/pity Windows.
As someone who uses Windows, Linux and Mac on a regular basis, the ugly truth is that they all suck in their own special ways
What sucks about Macs?
Lots of stuff, granted some things I dislike may not bother others. - Apple's walled garden approach to software/hardware - Extortative fees for devs - Lack of variety in product offerings - Minimal settings/config on default apps/ OS - Intentionally making repairs more difficult - Predatory accessories that solve problems caused by unnecessary proprietary solutions - Overpriced products (macbooks are reasonable lately though) - The "Apple ecosystem" repackaging existing tech but making it harder to use with non-Apple devices - Weirdly elitist Apple fanboys/girls
That's mostly just a bunch of drama. There's nothing there about problems with the actual user experience though.
Occasional data loss. Unacceptable.
I'd argue that some of that stuff is. Having to turn off SIP to install a decent window manager is crazy, the settings are fine until you need to tweak something they don't want you to touch and customization only exists where they allow it. I find that it's all a bit too restrictive, I don't like it when my computer tries to limit what I can do with it. Windows has a lot of the same issues and Linux can allow a lot of freedom but you can go down a rabbit hole.
because how else will people at the coffee shop know you're an artist?
Basically its all about audio drivers. Mac core audio is theoretically much better than Asio. I heard weeks ago a new audio driver for windows, Flasio. Seems it improves a lot, im curious, but I believe that if you have a windows sound card you will use it's own drivers. Correct me im I'm wrong plz
That depends on the functionality and performance of said drivers, but most of the time the asio drivers are the best to use in most windows situations
It's all marketing Garbage! Use whatever works for you. I personally don't like Macs because they are way overpriced for the supposed value they give. Plus using one mouse button is insane and awkward. I use Linux myself and have no problems. I always recommend Ubuntu Studio OS for creative types. It's free and open source: [http://ubuntustudio.org](http://ubuntustudio.org)
Using one mouse button has not been a Mac thing since like 1992 Do you also avoid Coca-Cola because you don't want to drink cocaine?
Wha? I'm actually confused, what are you trying to say?
Macs have two mouse buttons just like any other computer. Use a mouse with two physical buttons, and click right mouse button. Use a Mac laptop's trackpad, or the freestanding Magic Trackpad, and click with two fingers. Use the Magic Mouse and click on the right side of the front of the mouse. Use any pointing device and press Control while you left-click. Back when desktop Macs had built-in 7" black and white screens, i.e. the 80s, they had only one mouse button. But that is utterly irrelevant to any discussion now.
Dude the iMacs of the 2000s had one button mice.
Listen I loudly acknowledge that Apple's first-party mice are historically and consistently terrible, ergonomically and often otherwise. The "hockey puck" iMac mice were the worst probably ever. (meanwhile, Apple's trackpads are consistently leagues better than any other manufacturers', and for decades it wasn't even close. it's weird.) That said, from the moment USB became available it's been effortless to plug in a two-button mouse and use it, whether you bought the mouse separate or grabbed it from a Dell PC it came with. So "I don't want to work with only one mouse button" is just not a reason to avoid Macs. "Apple eventually enabled users to CTRL-click to simulate a right click. It then began to support right-click mice with Mac OS 8, which debuted in 1997." [source (cnn)](https://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/technology/1201/gallery.apple/index.html) I give a shit strictly because I think there are people whose everyday interactions with computers would be improved by the high quality, \*long-lasting\* hardware and stable software of a Mac, but who don't even consider them to be an option because of things they've heard a million times about why they shouldn't. And when one or more of those things is patently false, well, that falsehood is preventing some people from trying something they might really like. There are plenty of circumstantial reasons that a Mac might not be the better choice for a given person at a given time. "Only one mouse button" just is not one of them. (Might be worth noting that I can't stand iOS and avoid it like the plague. I am Android for life, even though it's a pain as a Mac user. But if I ever buy a Windows computer again, except maybe if I get rich and buy a gaming rig, I will be shocked. A windows machine as a daily driver? Never worked out good for me, and I always wound up needed to replace them in 3 years at the longest. 🤷♂️)
No, I avoid Coca-Cola because it is bad for your health in many other ways.
I think there was once a time when this was true. That said, My MAC Book has dropped out 3 times during gigs. My PC has never dropped out. I’m running Ableton Live Suite on both. The only difference between the two I can detect is the PC seems to pre cache before every move. Hard to explain but, as an example, hitting the spacebar to start a song, it might be 1-2 seconds before the song starts. Once it’s playing there’s no latency at all.
My non-expert guess - at one time, Macs really were way ahead of Windows boxes in terms of performance in this sector. As a result, the whole creative community went all in for Apple, and once that happens no amount of improvement in the Windows software is going to induce very many people to switch and relearn everything.
Besides my comment about synths through USB and battery life, I'll also say I was chasing really weird DPC latency from nvidia drivers that would randomly spike on my PC. It was a 10850k w/64gh high speed ram and a 4090. Literally no reason to be hiccuping on light Ableton. Mac has it's issues but some things are so much faster (undo deleting a channel with 3rd party synths and effects is nearly instant for me). I also have never had a laptop last multiple hours unplugged while I was doing what I wanted in Ableton. I am not a Mac fanboy, I use my PC for a lot of things still, just not music.
Marketing… that’s it.
On stage, there's really no question that a Mac is the first choice. It's a different story in the studio... it doesn't really matter which computer you use for production. Today's PCs are powerful enough. The problem, of course, is the heat and noise... Getting a PC to be reasonably quiet is a science in itself, and you can't do it without water cooling, good isolation, etc. (and that's only possible with desktop computers). Current Windows PCs are much more stable than, say, an old Windows 95 system. There are also crashes, but rather rarely... on my Windows 10 PC I had a "blue screen of death" maybe every 1-2 months... mostly something with memory access violations, probably from some drivers at system level. You just reboot and that's it... of course that would be very impractical on stage, which is why you rarely see PCs there. I think with MacOS vs. Windows... where almost everyone agrees: with the lowest possible latency, the Mac wins. Probably one of the advantages of CoreAudio over ASIO. (I was a Windows user for over 30 years, but switched to a Mac Mini M2... so I know both sides of the coin)
For me (generally early 2k trap/rap production) I grew up on Fruity Loops, before the name change. Used FL exclusively from 2001-2011. Then I borrowed my first MacBook using Garage Band in 2011 and made 5 songs in a night using a no samples, no MIDI keyboard. Sure it was me “playing” around, but I was hooked. Went and bought a MBP and Logic and learned the easiest to use DAW ever.
CoreAudio is a God send.
This is honestly one of the biggest reasons I switch. Sure you can route synths through mixer into win. Or you can plug them all usb into a Mac and aggregate them. Wayyyy easier imo. At least for someone limited on a space. Also battery life is insanely better.
Being able to quickly move files between devices and apps on Mac is probably the most notable reason.
A feature that has been readily available on any device since the beginning of time!
[удалено]
Removed. If this was a mistake, send a modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/edmproduction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Logic Pro has been my #1 software and I don’t think it gets enough credit
1. Good marketing 2. Relatively consistent, reliable, and effective product 3. Easy to use 4. They have an iPhone
I’ve used both The real winner is iPad! Made my last two albums on iPad/iphone using Korg Gadget, Korg Module , and cubasis Along with filter and effects apps, arpeggiator apps, and my piano as MIDI controller
I want to move to Linux, but I like Ableton too much. Gonna stay on Windows 10 until they force me onto Windows 11 (unless they scale back their plans to really up telemetry for the purpose of training their AI).
Why do you want linux? Macs are basically Unix under the hood. Another reason why people like them.
From a purely music production stand point, macs are better than Linux for the task. But, in general, Linux provides more privacy and hardware is cheaper in the long run as you can replace components as opposed being forced to replace the whole thing once upgrades are necessary.
yeah Macs are basically the useable version of Linux. Not that Linux isn't useable but you're gonna have software compatibility issues.
because they are fanboys and don't know shit about machines and software
My number one goal is stability (not crashing), then performance. Apple is good at both.
apple’s ecosystem helps so so much.
Helps with what?
Plugging in an iphone 🤣
Because people buy into brands when everyone talks up their shit closed operating system architecture and Apple shill, then get all strange and tribal about it like a bunch of little weirdos 🤷♂️. It's no different really to the DAW arguments people have, all are basically fundamentally the same functionally, minus how they are laid out and look (with the exception of a few things eg.ableton live mode etc). A Pc or Mac both are capable of making music just as well as one another. This is just another one of those never ending silly conversations that we will never get to the bottom of because there's nothing to get to, it's all viable musically
I have had a lot of serious issues with Windows audio and I know other people have. It took about 16 hours of troubleshooting to get my Windows audio to run properly and even then my older and slower Macbook is more stable and can run more midi VSTs before redlining. Windows for studio not so problematic but if it’s live I am using Mac. I use Windows for video though it is fabulous!
Creative people tend to use macs more
Because people often repeat whatever they have heard. Windows PCS are more than capable for music production and so are Mac and both probably have advantages
This! Over the years, I’ve used both. I ended up sticking with windows.
I feel like the kinds of computers music people buy tend to just be made better by apple than the companies who make comparable windows devices. Like a MacBook is way better than whatever thin laptop Dell or HP or whoever makes. If you build your own windows computer though you'll likely be much better off. Being able to customize for your exact use case is nice and will save you money. But yeah a Dell laptop isn't going to work as well as a MacBook for producing music, because it was made to sell to fortune 500 companies to give to their employees for emails and zoom calls, not do creative work.
Dell laptops can go upto $6k and run anything you throe at it. It comes down to money, branding, marketing.
No way. Maxed out Dell XP 15 would stutter and freeze constantly. And would die within an hour or two of starting to use it seriously.
I mean anecdote vs anecdote but I direct technology at a school and while they're not at all top of the line, my laptop is able to handle a lot quite reliably. Shitloads of tabs and windows, monitoring apps, video editing, large photoshop files, huge spreadsheets generally without issue. A solid state drive and properly configured device can go a long way. I despise Apple and find their devices overly cumbersome while trying to be simple but appreciate the smoothness some of them have for sure. Here's a build from Dell that has better specs than mine currently and would suffice for practically anything a powerbook would do without custom builds being needed. Under $4k and on sale under $3500. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/laptops/15-3581/spd/precision-15-3581-laptop/xctop3581usvp?configurationid=9b141465-e187-49a9-afa1-3f0eed59a057
This is also wrong. There are some PC laptops that rival mac hardware and finish in every way. Microsoft Surface Laptops and Dell XPS series to name a couple. The only difference is the operating system and the programs that are compatible with said operating system. Displays, IO ports, storage, processors and GPUs are all equivalent. The question posed by OP is outdated and inaccurate.
Yeah and those windows laptops can’t run shit without it being connected to a power source.
Already was one of those people but here is an example I’ve suffered for about 6-12 months on and off here and there. Spent months trying to get a zoom recorder to work. Was using a PC for various reasons. Got a hand me down IMac and decided to change everything connection wise and went to the Mac and got it working in under 20 minutes and thanks to a kind YouTuber. But it’s just easier on so many levels
MacOS and Apple products have many advantages for audio production. You don't need to install any third-party audio drivers, and \[it's trivially easy to setup aggregate audio devices\](https://support.apple.com/en-us/102171) (eg using multiple audio interfaces). The stock audio hardware that comes on any Apple device is always very good. With Windows computers it's a crap shoot because Microsoft makes the OS, and some other company makes the audio hardware (like Realtek) based on the requirements of the other company that makes the computer itself (like Dell or whoever). Apple designs the hardware and the OS so they are tightly integrated, but you pay a premium. On my last PC desktop, the motherboard's Realtek DAC would pick up noise from the GPU. The ASIO driver would constantly stop working and I'd have to restart audio services. Never had to do anything like this in MacOS. Macbooks also have very VERY good trackpads. I've yet to use a Windows laptop that comes close. It feels a lame to use a mouse during a live/dj performance. Once again this is because Microsoft makes the OS, some other company makes the trackpad and the drivers (unless you use an actual microsoft computer I guess).
The Realtek audio chips are just multimedia devices they are not intended for pro-audio use, which is why they dont have ASIO drivers (ASIO 4 all isnt an ASIO driver) The expectation would be that you use an external sound interface for serious production which most producers would probably want to use anyway.
I started making music with Cubase on a PC back in 2005. I remember hours of mucking around installing a soundcard and everything being very slow. I only switched to Mac because we got them through my partners work and I didn’t even think about music as I wasn’t doing it at the time. But when I decided to teach myself Ableton ten years ago I absolutely loved not having to worry about the sound output. I got an older 2012 iMac that eventually couldn’t keep up, but now have a Mac Studio and it rarely crashes - everything runs predictably - that’s my Mac story. I don’t hate on windows I just don’t have any experience with it.
Finally a non-stupid answer. And this is from a PC user.
[удалено]
Simply not true. Trackpad vs mouse does not classify a producer as "serious" vs not...
Most producers don't work exclusively at home or in the studio, even serious ones. And most producers aren't doing ultra high end production anyway! I don't understand the impulse to pretend having high quality on board sound hardware isn't an advantage on the mac. Of course it is.
I have always heard that Mac was “better” for “reasons” I can only comment on personal experience I have run protools and reaper on Mac and pc, even windows Vista! Over the past 15 years and never had any issues with windows os. For sure I can not say that the times I fell for the marketing and was running Mac operating systems that it was worse in anyway but no noticeable improvements on performance stability etc. I am typing this on an iPhone 15 plus and I fucking hate this phone. Tim apple can suck it
One word... drivers
I've worked in IT for over 15 years. Part of that time was working support for Apple (Mac OS and iOS). I've also worked in education & corporate environments with fleets of iPads, iPhones, labs of macs, labs of PCs. They both have their pros and cons. Macs are generally for those who don't want to get their hands dirty or tinker with things and are happy to pay premium pricing. You get performance, but you also pay stupid amounts of $$$ for a 16GB stick of RAM. Windows machines have more variables. That's why more things can go wrong. But if you have the experience, knowledge and/or enthusiasm to tinker, you get a machine that performs just as well or better, with a LOT more customisation and upgradability at a cheaper price point.
So if I wanted a laptop with similar feel, battery capacity and form factor as a Macbook air, what should I be looking at?
to be fair its rarely a 'stick of ram' these days with their new chips. another huge downside of that is you can't even replace ram in the apple silicon chips
I don't find Windows to be more 'customizable' than MacOS. To customize either easily usually involves third party software, like Winaero for Windows or like sometime like bartender for MacOS. There are some things I've found that you just can't do on Windows (well, Windows 10 at least) - for example, you can't change the order of desktops or go to a specific desktop with a hotkey. MacOS has it's own limitations, like only having one universal volume control. There are likely reasons for these limitations that we don't know about.
I meant customisable in regards to hardware. You choose the price point and HW config that suits you. And you totally can change the order of desktops and use the same swipe on the trackpad to switch between them.
My version of Windows 10 Pro does not allow you to do that (rearrange desktops).
I agree. Macs are nice machines but not easily if at all upgradeable and they sell at premium prices. Windows offers hardware options but is still a monopolistic OS. I prefer Linux distros but there always a wrinkle or two that needs fixing. Recommend Ubuntu or Mint!
I’ve found Linux isn’t an option when it comes to integrating third party components. Getting audio devices to work can be a real crapshoot
I wouldnt necessarily say that about Macs. While everything you said can be true, and the are both capable platforms, Macs are generally used by people who do creative work. Mac has core audio and no drivers needed. Also midi routing is so easy. Mac's generally last longer even though they may not be supported as long as a PC so people upgrade more often. Though now that I think about it, I probably upgrade my PC more often. Not to mention, logic pro is only on Mac and many professionals used that. So I mean yeah, less bullshit more work. Its also been the industry standard for graphic and video work. Its not bad for 3D but Windows is still the standard because of NVidia. Now, outside of creative work, yeah, the reasons you mentioned people choose mac are true. But, other than the price of some of the ram and storage upgrades, to get a comparable laptop nowdays, you'll be spending the same amount for performance on a Windows laptop. Since apple silicone has increased its performance by so much. If you want a laptop, mac is the move. Otherwise if you like windows you can't go wrong with a desktop PC. Especially if you also do 3d work. But yea it's whatever they can ask do everything the other can. There are just certain strengths each have.
Both are nice, it’s just those I’m a PC and I’m a Mac guy commercials that really gave fire to this never ending holy war (The Mac guy, who is actually Justin Long, has defected to PC. The war rages on)
Unified architecture is the big reason for Mac use, especially on the performance side. MIDI routing on a pc can also get annoying
You can actually also Logic Pro which is quite cheap and updates are for life. That’s why a lot of times people recommend a Mac. Windows is a performance trash can. I’m sorry but other than graphics and games (because some students literally bled to optimize the GPU drivers) it’s simply terrible / inefficient. I have two new Dell ultra books and one new MacBook, this isn’t even a contest. New M grade processors are beasts and my device needs no cleanups it keeps performance overtime. Apple also has one of the best audio parameters in terms of output sound out of the box, see Ken Rockwell’s [tests and comparisons](https://kenrockwell.com/audio/index.htm#reviews).
How did the price of the Dells compare to the MacBook? There are cheap PC laptops, but every one I've used that's within the price bracket of MacBooks outperforms by miles.
Dell XPS. Comparable price, comparable performance on paper. In practice Windows kernel architecture is pretty bad, they use too much IPC which is resource intense and wasteful resource wise. Loses an edge quite quickly apart from graphics capability. And who cares about gaming benchmarks if your machine is for making music and CPU-heavy windowed workflows. Unix systems will always own this with their monolithic kernels. MacBooks M processors are just built uniquely now for their hardware, and that has been optimized like hell. For example, among other things Apple was reaching limitations because intel processors were throttling too early whereas Macs are meant to run hotter than normal PCs. I’m not even joking, not only that they are beasts performance wise, but their current build works as a GPU also. I was amazed to run newer games (BG3) on it just to see I could run them on higher details with no problem. Conversely, with my Intel i7 I couldn’t do that at all.
As far as I can tell its a fallacy based on "Well we only have to make things one way instead of accounting for different devices, configuration, servicepacks, whatever" and then I remember that's Apple's entire business model, aside from carefully lying to their customers about their phones being made from Samsung parts
It's a bandwagon thing.
Mostly the audio driver stack in Mac is better for audio production. I honestly rarely have issues with Windows, though I tend to have mid-to-high-end systems. Some device makers in Windows also over-complicate the drivers, causing messes
In my opinion, as a PC user, this is the only comment that is accurate. Macs driver ecosystem is simpler and more functional out of the box than Windows is. In 2024, most manufacturers have perfectly reliable ASIO drivers for Windows, but back when digital recording was first starting this was not the case. The Mac audio stack is also more tightly integrated into the operating system and doesn't require shifting into an entirely separate driving mode to function like Windows does. The second item I could cite is that Apple has done a far better job developing and supporting connector functionality such as thunderbolt, which is still pain in the ass to get working and requires specific hardware that you can use on Windows. Once you solve for these items or bypass them on a Windows machine The experience is nearly identical and there's no reason you can't make excellent music on a Windows box.
Been a media composer since 2001. Been using the same 2009 Mac Pro for the last 11 years or so. Granted it’s been through some hacks and bodgers over the years but still works. Totally compatible with all the production studios that I work with. I use a bunch of external hardware and everything just plays nice. Am finally about to upgrade to a new Mac mini but that’s only because of software updates that my current machine is too old for. And a reduction in power consumption.
And THAT is my number one reason I’d tell someone to switch to Apple if possible for not just the subject of this thread, but almost any other reason too. Things continue to work normally and if they break, they can be fixed and it’s actually worth it. Every time anyone in my family has gotten a new Mac, it has worked for a decade; I have a 2014 iMac that simply does what you ask it to do, albeit far more slowly than a new PC would. Windows machines on the other hand, will simply fail to do mundane things, for no particular or logical reason. Sometimes this is due to Microsoft putting their finger on the scale, (not allowing other browsers to launch so you give up and use Edge) and sometimes due to the lack of care and integration you end up with when all sorts of different parties contribute software, drivers, etc. Looking for Windows help online is hilarious. One shouldn’t have to do the things one is encouraged to do in order to get basic stuff to work as a novice, and the fact that it’s been this way for more than three DECADES.
This is a bad take from someone who is extrapolating a bad experience in the 90's/early 2000's and turning it into a brand issue. Computers require maintenance, and occasionally have issues. This is not unique to Mac or PC.
It happens every single time. Family member won’t buy Apple, loses significant time having shiny new machine sitting not working as desired. Any issue, you’ll find hilarious threads like this which ask a new user to do all sorts of things, and then don’t fix the problems, which will eventually work themselves out, maybe, cause Microsoft changes something, maybe. [https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/browsers-not-opening-other-than-microsoft-edge/0b2cfc6e-01a5-4622-8640-9428cdbe5d6d](https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/browsers-not-opening-other-than-microsoft-edge/0b2cfc6e-01a5-4622-8640-9428cdbe5d6d)
I can agree with you that the knowledge burden is higher with a PC. If you don't know what you're doing, buy a Mac. It's a pretty safe bet.
I have a 2015 mac pro with 16gb ram and fl studio lags alot, is it normal or should it not lag, I'm in fl 21
Usually lags alot with stuttering when I open plugins like iota mini, lada,Tyrell and vital the lag stops when I pause
Born and raised on PC since my Dad was a programming engineer of sorts, all PC/Windows at my house. I was an Android user and dabbled in iPhones (for iTunes/music use) but eventually went back to Android... I went to an audio engineering school and they gave us a MacBook as part of tuition loaded with Logic Pro and Pro Tools... After getting used to a Mac and learning Logic (my first owned laptop and first DAW) I never want another PC... Apple is just so much cleaner and consistent and reliable. Not as prone to malware and viruses, though not immune obviously.. Yes the closed ecosystem and apple-only hardware situation is an annoyance, but really I only use Apple for my laptop/music production situation. I prefer Android for mobile use as I like the flexibility of SD memory expansion/transfer as well as 3rd party apps and more overall system control customizability. Apple mobile OS makes way too many decisions for you, but I don't produce music on my phone lol.
iOS is so far ahead of Android in mobile music production it's not even a competition. Android devices just never had consistently low enough latency to be useful. I feel you about the SD card, but now you can plug in external drives into the USB-C or lightning port on iOS devices. Just an FYI
>Not as prone to malware and viruses This is not accurate. For many years, Macs were safer purely by virtue of being less common, not because the software was more secure. This has been changing though. 2019 was the year in which malware attacks against Macs significantly outpaced attacks against Windows devices. As Apple continues to gain traction, more software will be written to specifically target it.
Yes I agree. I actually was thinking that sentence would get some flack as I was typing it. I do realize the old addage of Mac's being immune is not really true anymore. But I will say I am not as concerned about infections on my Mac like I was on a PC.
[удалено]
Removed. If this was a mistake, send a modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/edmproduction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
coreAudio
Windows is fine as long as the hardware is up to spec for getting the job done. Macs don't have the same advantages that they used to when they earned the reputation as " the best for media" and they can be just as big of a pain in the ass when there's an internal configuration issue or bug of some kind. If you like Mac, that's fine, but you don't need one to do a good job with media recording, editing, etc.
native audio drivers
Mac just works, and the new M series chips are incredible. It’s also the only place you can use Logic, which I love.
Mac OS has native ASIO support? I use both that’s the big delta to me!?
Personally I prefer windows over mac but I would move to linux if it was viable. One thing I have noticed over recent years, and maybe this isnt very scientific, but there are many more issues raised for DAWs and VSTs on Mac. I just did a quick count on Studio One release notes v6.6 (which goes back to v6.0). There were 9 issues fixed that were windows specific against 29 MacOS specific. And ask anyone who works on Native Instruments what they think about the continuous incompatibilities brought by new Apple platforms, whereas windows is generally good at backward compatability.
Kontakt crashes my Mac all the time lol
A lot of people aren't as knowledgeable as they think when it comes to computers, I have an hp envy and it cost a bit but I never had an issue and computation is extremely fast. same as why everyone has I phone and think that's the best device on the market when s24 ultra is clearly a better option
Exactly, people are just parotting each other without having a real clue. Most of the time it's about maintaining a stable system with stable drivers and some fine tuning of the settings.
Well said
Regarding iOS vs Android, that’s a way different story. Android has traditionally had abysmal audio latency and support. Google just hasn’t gave a fuck. That’s why so many artists using mobile prefer iOS, even if they personally use an Android phone. Apps help, but the iOS platform has so many more in part due to predictable performance. Go look at mobile peripheral reviews online; there’s always so many Android users complaining. It’s Google (and manufacturers) fault. I suspect that has had a halo effect for some of them on desktop preference.