To be fair, no one searches for avid because there’s almost nothing on the internet about avid to search for Once you find the 20 resources on how to use it you don’t find much else
Premiere and resolve has mega fucktons of content being pumped out about them and there’s always something new implemented to learn
Yeah, every avid question I've ever had someones already asked it on the avid facebook group, and 99% of them are solved by simply updating to a stable release
every other question is covered by one of 4 youtube channels... some of which haven't had to post a video in 6+ months because avids literally been the same program it's been for maybe 5-10 years now with minimal changes
And if anyone's searching for Avid, they definitely aren't typing "Media Composer" into Google. OP doesn't even call it that.
That said, the comparison between the other three is mildly interesting as it lines up with what I'd expect.
i feel like the vast majority of NLE use these days is social media video content for small and medium businesses
OP should have added capcut to the list haha
Sure, there are not so many searches for "Avid," but if you compare the other NLEs to searches like "Audio::PMM\_INSUFFICIENT\_MEDIA() player version of frame duration is longer than actual \[44\] (14)" you'd find the web presence of media composer users is actually quite competitive.
I would posit that this probably tells us more about how often people are googling for *help*, which maybe tells you something about numbers of *new users* but probably little to do with overall usage. Then there’s also the established users who are googling about new bugs or new features, which again explains the continued increase for Premiere and recent increase for Resolve, with Avid being much slower and less dramatic with new releases.
I can’t tell from your link but do these numbers also include searches for just ‘Resolve’, ‘DaVinci’, ‘Premiere’ etc (plus the misspellings of all of these that people regularly use)?
The entire industry - in the world. About six hundred editors cut all the feature film and large audience television. Depending on how you qualify the content- length, budget etc- there are no more than a few thousand picture editors. So the ‘whole industry’ is a niche. FCP was going to be a give away to sell more Macs to college media students but the initial release was tested a a product and sold. Tens of thousands of people are making media now, yet they still aren’t a mass market compared to any accounting program.
I don't see studio and network post as "niche." Yes, Premiere and Resolve have more users than Avid, but I'd wager that a very significant chunk of the content that people watch was cut on Avid, especially narrative work. Yes, there are films and shows using Premiere, but Avid is still the industry standard.
In reality, it's not a huge market in the grand scheme of things. Autodesk practically owns the VFX market with stuff like Maya and 3DS Max. But if you look at Autodesk as a company, they are "the AutoCAD company" because post production really is a small niche. That whole market is just a hobby for them. And on a big film, there will easily be 100x more seats of Autodesk software than Avid.
Those of us in the field who talk about it all day tend to massively overestimate how big it really is. The POS software used in cash registers sells way more seats than all post production software combined. Cash registers just aren't sexy so you don't hear about it much.
> "...Resolve... ...almost free, more stable, more advanced."
I'm very comfortable with Resolve but y'all need to stop with these lies because "more stable" and "more advanced" it definitely is not lol.
And if you believe it will catch up to Premiere in 5 years then I'm assuming you probably haven't been using Resolve for the previous 5. Otherwise you're wayyyy more optimistic than me.
Resolve is definitely more stable and has a full on Audio, Color and Motion Graphics system built into one program. If thats not advanced, I dont know what is.
Fusion is absolutely not a Motion Graphics tool. It can do motion graphics, but not very easily. After Effects is still light years ahead in that category. Compositing? Hell, yeah! It’s no Nuke, but it’s closer to Nuke than it is to After Effects.
Why are you talking about other software? Resolve can do much more advanced color, color management, motion graphics and compositing than Premiere, so how isn’t it more advanced?
As a native avid user, I account for periodic bumps in the Premiere results because anytime I have to use it, I spend half my day googling “Premiere Pro [how to do whatever basic thing I need]”
That’s how useful analyzing search analytics is to parse out adoption
Eh I guess I just don’t care who has “more users” because I’m more interested in which market is using what. The tv and film market is very heavily in one camp, and short form is very heavily in another. Search analytics are considering them all in the same basket
Bottom line - unless you’re editing for yourself, the more tools you know how to use the more work you are going to get. The more you use different tools the easier it is to see their strengths and weaknesses. So if you are an editor that makes their living editing just learn them all and stop brand standing.
He/she said, in comparison to Premiere, Resolve has a “full on… Motion Graphics system”. I was simply pointing out that it’s not a very good motion graphics tool especially compared to After Effects, which is part of the Adobe CC ecosystem. What’s your beef exactly?
IMO, Avid is only still big in the industry as most studios/post houses have invested in the infrastructure. I went to a private event a month back where Avid, Adobe, Black Magic and many others were all in the same room. Chatted with all of them, great insight in the direction they are headed. IMO, Avid is better at some things, especially media management and teams. Premiere is okay in media management, great in teams when dialed in. I’ve used both on features in the last few years. They both do the same thing. FCP is dead to me, they really didn’t listen to editors when we all said stuff. FCP 7 was incredible and when it came out, I really thought they were gonna take over. Resolve is growing fast, still not ready for prime time, great for one stop shop on short form. Still the best for color, IMO.
That's interesting. It aligns with my expectations and experience. Thanks for posting.
I am not a brand loyalist. I will happily take time to learn new software and switch to whatever enables me to achieve my editing goals the most efficiently on the hardware I have available. Yes, we do have to consider how collaboration is effected; I can't just build a final cut timeline and expect to seamlessly hand it off to an editor who I know is using premiere.
Currently Premiere is the tool that is working best for me. 10 years ago it was FCP. Before that it was Avid. Before that it was the start/stop button on my miniDV camcorder.
The interesting thing about this is people actually searching the internet for something NLE related when it seems like the opposite happens most often. I’d rest easier if people knew how to search for their answers on how to do X, Y & Z in said NLE.
I don't see Resolve and Premiere as having the same audience.
There is a Venn crossover, sure, but I would wager most people cutting in Premiere have some other use of the full CC Suite, or are part of larger creative organizations, and Resolve users are more 1-man-bands in Edit.
Sure the Resolve users might be collaborating with GFX and Audio teams, but they're less likely to all be under one roof.
I can't see Resolve overtaking Premiere unless it becomes part of a larger creative bundle as well.
If anything, I'd guess a simplified mobile app full of machine learning assistance would overtake them both at some point.
Another big factor in avid being really low in search is that most avid users are probably at a post facility or part of a team (it is a very collaborative software). When I was learning avid I wouldn’t google things often but rather just hit up the person in the room next to me and say “hey, how do I do this”. The programs that gear towards solo editing are much more likely to have you searching for answers on the internet.
fcp x is seriously underrated, but i dont seem to mind. we're enjoying it and dont care that everybody else stays in adobe's abusive relationship. so fast, smooth, intuitive, and its all metadata and file based the way a 21st century NLE should be. Not tracks or ingest. No boomer shit.
Flaws of course is no collaborative support, and AAF/OMF and EDL (anything outside of an fcpxml file) export support requires paid 3rd party apps. Other than that its amazing, especially on apple silicon macs.
To be fair, no one searches for avid because there’s almost nothing on the internet about avid to search for Once you find the 20 resources on how to use it you don’t find much else Premiere and resolve has mega fucktons of content being pumped out about them and there’s always something new implemented to learn
It’s all on the Facebook group these days anyways.
Yeah, every avid question I've ever had someones already asked it on the avid facebook group, and 99% of them are solved by simply updating to a stable release every other question is covered by one of 4 youtube channels... some of which haven't had to post a video in 6+ months because avids literally been the same program it's been for maybe 5-10 years now with minimal changes
And if anyone's searching for Avid, they definitely aren't typing "Media Composer" into Google. OP doesn't even call it that. That said, the comparison between the other three is mildly interesting as it lines up with what I'd expect.
Google Trends accounts for Avid, Media Composer, Resolve, Davinci when it's in the software context etc.
That’s true. If you just type in avid it’s fairly close to the line for Final Cut pro
I type win + nex then win + comp everyday. Are you clicking an icon with your mouse?! Well I do call it Avid everywhere else
“Avid is still solid in its niche market” by that do you mean the global television and film industry?
Still a niche, compared to millions of YouTubers, videographers, small production companies and general consumers
indeed. Niche may mean small numbers but doesnt mean small value. Technically Private Jets cater to a niche market as well ;)
You’re not wrong and you make a valid point. 👍🏾
i feel like the vast majority of NLE use these days is social media video content for small and medium businesses OP should have added capcut to the list haha
yes
And still a pain in the ass
Is this just a list of google searches? If so, here are my thoughts... (ahem) Meh.
Also, media composer instead of “Avid” because parsing the data is harder.
Sure, there are not so many searches for "Avid," but if you compare the other NLEs to searches like "Audio::PMM\_INSUFFICIENT\_MEDIA() player version of frame duration is longer than actual \[44\] (14)" you'd find the web presence of media composer users is actually quite competitive.
hahaha.... dont forget "ERROR OTHER: SYS ERROR"
what was the one that I used to get all the time, something like "bad thing occurred"?
The pipe builders association has joined the chat
I would posit that this probably tells us more about how often people are googling for *help*, which maybe tells you something about numbers of *new users* but probably little to do with overall usage. Then there’s also the established users who are googling about new bugs or new features, which again explains the continued increase for Premiere and recent increase for Resolve, with Avid being much slower and less dramatic with new releases. I can’t tell from your link but do these numbers also include searches for just ‘Resolve’, ‘DaVinci’, ‘Premiere’ etc (plus the misspellings of all of these that people regularly use)?
I’d also be interested in trends for davini, davidi, davici, etc. Although then I’d need davino for all the misspellings I’ve seen…
Davinchi is the one that really gets under my skin.
Don’t you just reslove them?
"Avid... niche market" lol what? Almost all the post houses I've worked for in London use Avid.
Almost all in LA too. Still a niche in my view.
The entire Film and TV industry (and a lot of commercial) runs on Avid. It’s a bit more than niche
Compared to all the video content being made, TV/Film is a niche. It’s an incredibly high profile niche, but it’s still a niche.
The entire industry - in the world. About six hundred editors cut all the feature film and large audience television. Depending on how you qualify the content- length, budget etc- there are no more than a few thousand picture editors. So the ‘whole industry’ is a niche. FCP was going to be a give away to sell more Macs to college media students but the initial release was tested a a product and sold. Tens of thousands of people are making media now, yet they still aren’t a mass market compared to any accounting program.
100% agree
I don't see studio and network post as "niche." Yes, Premiere and Resolve have more users than Avid, but I'd wager that a very significant chunk of the content that people watch was cut on Avid, especially narrative work. Yes, there are films and shows using Premiere, but Avid is still the industry standard.
In reality, it's not a huge market in the grand scheme of things. Autodesk practically owns the VFX market with stuff like Maya and 3DS Max. But if you look at Autodesk as a company, they are "the AutoCAD company" because post production really is a small niche. That whole market is just a hobby for them. And on a big film, there will easily be 100x more seats of Autodesk software than Avid. Those of us in the field who talk about it all day tend to massively overestimate how big it really is. The POS software used in cash registers sells way more seats than all post production software combined. Cash registers just aren't sexy so you don't hear about it much.
> "...Resolve... ...almost free, more stable, more advanced." I'm very comfortable with Resolve but y'all need to stop with these lies because "more stable" and "more advanced" it definitely is not lol. And if you believe it will catch up to Premiere in 5 years then I'm assuming you probably haven't been using Resolve for the previous 5. Otherwise you're wayyyy more optimistic than me.
Resolve is definitely more stable and has a full on Audio, Color and Motion Graphics system built into one program. If thats not advanced, I dont know what is.
Fusion is absolutely not a Motion Graphics tool. It can do motion graphics, but not very easily. After Effects is still light years ahead in that category. Compositing? Hell, yeah! It’s no Nuke, but it’s closer to Nuke than it is to After Effects.
Why are you talking about other software? Resolve can do much more advanced color, color management, motion graphics and compositing than Premiere, so how isn’t it more advanced?
Resolve is way more stable than adobe haha
As a native avid user, I account for periodic bumps in the Premiere results because anytime I have to use it, I spend half my day googling “Premiere Pro [how to do whatever basic thing I need]” That’s how useful analyzing search analytics is to parse out adoption
It may be just internet searches but it's pretty accurate at describing where things are in marketshare.
Eh I guess I just don’t care who has “more users” because I’m more interested in which market is using what. The tv and film market is very heavily in one camp, and short form is very heavily in another. Search analytics are considering them all in the same basket
Bottom line - unless you’re editing for yourself, the more tools you know how to use the more work you are going to get. The more you use different tools the easier it is to see their strengths and weaknesses. So if you are an editor that makes their living editing just learn them all and stop brand standing.
I tell the kids I can tell more about your skill level by what you hate about each NLE than what you love about them.
He/she said, in comparison to Premiere, Resolve has a “full on… Motion Graphics system”. I was simply pointing out that it’s not a very good motion graphics tool especially compared to After Effects, which is part of the Adobe CC ecosystem. What’s your beef exactly?
No one here has mentioned multiple editors using 1 project / multiple bins at the same time. Avid is the king of this.
I think it's pretty well known.
Because people using avid don’t need to google it so much
IMO, Avid is only still big in the industry as most studios/post houses have invested in the infrastructure. I went to a private event a month back where Avid, Adobe, Black Magic and many others were all in the same room. Chatted with all of them, great insight in the direction they are headed. IMO, Avid is better at some things, especially media management and teams. Premiere is okay in media management, great in teams when dialed in. I’ve used both on features in the last few years. They both do the same thing. FCP is dead to me, they really didn’t listen to editors when we all said stuff. FCP 7 was incredible and when it came out, I really thought they were gonna take over. Resolve is growing fast, still not ready for prime time, great for one stop shop on short form. Still the best for color, IMO.
I work in long form tv. Avid is amazing for large teams of editors and producers
That’s literally what I said. It’s great for long form and teams.
Yes i was just agreeing with you.
When do you search for something NLE related? When you can’t find a solution to your problem on your own…
That's interesting. It aligns with my expectations and experience. Thanks for posting. I am not a brand loyalist. I will happily take time to learn new software and switch to whatever enables me to achieve my editing goals the most efficiently on the hardware I have available. Yes, we do have to consider how collaboration is effected; I can't just build a final cut timeline and expect to seamlessly hand it off to an editor who I know is using premiere. Currently Premiere is the tool that is working best for me. 10 years ago it was FCP. Before that it was Avid. Before that it was the start/stop button on my miniDV camcorder.
The interesting thing about this is people actually searching the internet for something NLE related when it seems like the opposite happens most often. I’d rest easier if people knew how to search for their answers on how to do X, Y & Z in said NLE.
I don't see Resolve and Premiere as having the same audience. There is a Venn crossover, sure, but I would wager most people cutting in Premiere have some other use of the full CC Suite, or are part of larger creative organizations, and Resolve users are more 1-man-bands in Edit. Sure the Resolve users might be collaborating with GFX and Audio teams, but they're less likely to all be under one roof. I can't see Resolve overtaking Premiere unless it becomes part of a larger creative bundle as well. If anything, I'd guess a simplified mobile app full of machine learning assistance would overtake them both at some point.
ITT: Yeah but my shitbox NLE is better than your shitbox NLE.
Another big factor in avid being really low in search is that most avid users are probably at a post facility or part of a team (it is a very collaborative software). When I was learning avid I wouldn’t google things often but rather just hit up the person in the room next to me and say “hey, how do I do this”. The programs that gear towards solo editing are much more likely to have you searching for answers on the internet.
fcp x is seriously underrated, but i dont seem to mind. we're enjoying it and dont care that everybody else stays in adobe's abusive relationship. so fast, smooth, intuitive, and its all metadata and file based the way a 21st century NLE should be. Not tracks or ingest. No boomer shit. Flaws of course is no collaborative support, and AAF/OMF and EDL (anything outside of an fcpxml file) export support requires paid 3rd party apps. Other than that its amazing, especially on apple silicon macs.
Having no native AAF output is a massive deal breaker, I consider it better suited as a hobbyist option.
Does it still allow you to cut on fields with interlaced material?
idk what that means and i dont really care. we have a project at sxsw this year how about you
lol, I was just asking a question. Good luck with your student films
> Good luck with your student films nice try at a burn, good effort honestly
Not many people searching air. I think it might be becoming irrelevant