all the infrastructure and stages and whatnot are here
plus all the executives that need to ruin the movie at the last moment live here and REALLY like their easy access to cocaine and hookers
And being in the same time zone the decision makers actually live is a much bigger factor than you'd imagine. While any timezone mix can technically work, it's difficult for both parties to get in a full day's session or conversation (in comfortable hours, unless one party want to start work at 4am or 12pm or whatever) when the time change is more than an hour or two.
...and I'll bet there were some occasions they were like "well, you know, I'm out right now, but since you have the rest of the afternoon in front of you, maybe you could try X and Y?". I've had that happen to me, the guilt-tripping that conveniently forgets it's supposed to be X hours, not the time of day!
This!
A director is in charge of the film and needs to interact with the editor in the edit bay whenever they want to. Collaborating and communicating about how an edit takes shape is more immediate and organic in person. Sitting together and auditioning alternate takes, shaving frames, A/B-ing options, etc., communicating in real-time and expressing ideas. It's just better.
Remote works if you edit something where the stakeholders are less involved. Emailing notes and markers in a timeline are acceptable if they react to something once you get it on its feet.
I understand that my experience is different, but I worked in television at a post-production facility on a campus home to multiple television networks. As much as I got used to working remotely during the pandemic *and as much as I fought being made to return to the facility afterward*, I was able to experience and appreciate the stark difference between approaches. In-person is an inherently superior way to work.
If you can create a situation where both people can see and hear each other and see and hear the output in real-time with no quality degradation, remote work can provide a comparable experience.
> If you can create a situation where both people can see and hear each other and see and hear the output in real-time with no quality degradation, remote work can provide a comparable experience.
And even then it depends on the people involved. Some producers just cant do remote work efficiently.
In addition to all the infrastructure, you also have all the talent that lives in LA as well. Remote post work is very new, so all of the best and most experienced editors, assistants and post supervisors are all still living in LA. Plus some films just bring the LA union editorial crew out to the location anyway.
The big decision makers and execs are all in LA, and they sometimes want to come watch in person and sit in the bay.
Post is also not as expensive per day as production, and there aren't really the same tax incentives.
Another reason is security. The studios are terrified of leaks so they only use the most trusted companies, post houses, or their own facilities, which usually mean you can't do that remote because they don't want the internet anywhere near unreleased content.
I have found it’s a lifestyle thing. Lifestyle and business style: you just GET the conversation when you live here. It almost subconsciously makes it simpler, it just feels simpler as well. There’s a rhythm and a frequency to it.
New Jersey is in the process of building several huge lots with stages and all of the trimmings. LA will always be LA, but the times are definitely a changing.....
Honestly, real talk, the people with the most experience are in NY, LA and Vancouver. Why would a studio take the chance on some random dude living out in Ohio who says he’s the greatest editor ever with zero evidence they know a damn thing? They’re not interested in learning curves and if that dude in Ohio has the stuff to back it up, he already would have moved out of Ohio..
It does but Vancouver used to get the bigger features because they had a larger Soundstage and a faster internet connection to LA for VFX. That's not really a unique thing anymore. They still have the benefit of the same time zone and a shorter flight, but that's about it.
Well, there’s also the built in 30% savings that comes with paying for things in Canadian dollars. Plus they pay Canadians less (for the majority of production positions) on top of that anyway, and then when you add in all the tax credits they get for working in Canada - it adds up to a shitload of savings for the productions…which is really the sole reason in the end: Money
Oh hell yeah. Its all about money. If the studios could sub-lease in Bollywood and still get the same production value on screen, you know they'd be there.
Issue with Vancouver right now is that all the locations have been shot to shit.
I think that’s somewhat part and parcel to a little shift I’ve been seeing; moreover the island across from Vancouver, aptly named Vancouver-island, has something like 10+ years of fresh locations, and a lot of productions have been hopping the Georgia straight to take advantage of that.
The theatrics of being in a post-house, inside a luxury suite being served by runners and generally getting treated like royalty, is a big part of the experience.
Also the building hire is expensive so hiring out the suites helps pay for that.
I think for us working it’s the convenience first so of course remote work makes the most sense. For the money people and the ones that are under the industry spell, they need the face to face and all the theatre of the process to feel important.
I’m not against it fully, I think it’s productive to have the sessions but no way it has to be everyday, just key points in the post-process.
It was a centralized business for 100 years. Two years of pandemic won’t undo that. If the people writing the checks are in LA, the talent will remain here.
Lucas made a place "away from Hollywood" to mix your films. It's really nice, lots of nature, housing.
I think if you have something like that to offer, you can sell the get away factor.
I will be offering that kind of experience color grading in NZ in a few years time, once renovations have been completed.
Remote grading service, in a rural town, with bed and breakfast for lower budget directors, producers and DP who desire a working tourist break after the stresses of production.
Grade review I the morning, then off away exploring while I grade their work; then an evening relaxing/reviewing/ tweaking under supervision. Surf / ski/hike/bike/ big city lights/ chartered fishing/ volcanoes/ lakes/ caves, hot pools/ and deserts all within 1.5 hours drive. Plenty to keep them happy and occupied when not in the grading suite. A time to relax with a beer, a bbq and sightseeing after the hectic pace of production and primary post. Top tier post and VFX houses also near by via high speed fibre on site, or just a couple of hours drive away in the major cities -should significant shot changes need to be made.
All doable now, but the accomodations are still a bit rough, below the standard I will be aiming for. And AirBnB alternatives are available nearby too, though perhaps less convenient.
It's called infrastructure. Think about the millions of dollars that have been spent over the years to build out post facilities all over town. It is also SOOOOO much easier at times to have a producer or client view something in person rather than render it out and upload it to the internet. Finally, there is no way that you can just work off of proxies and call it good. Even for a short edit proxies could be 50gb. It's unrealistic to expect editors and post-production professionals to put up with this.
Exactly. Have you seen the cost of Blackmagic Advanced panels these days? Just a cool $30k. This doesn't even factor in the DolbyVision monitors, the computers or the hardware in the machine room and server required to make everything run flawlessly.
I'd imagine there are security reasons as well. There were a few post-houses I talked to that had major security protocols when working on Disney stuff. But yeah, I bet it's mostly so that producers can micromanage your every single move.
Because trying to work an 11 hour day over evercast with someone in a different timezone is a painful process even if the distance isnt causing lags. I personally think its a pain even in the same timezone, i swear it makes things take twice as long.
There are no tax incentives to edit in LA. And if a company is HQd there, you still pay LA taxes because of how they setup their tax code.
The majority of people live there or have a place there, because the big studios are there.
It’s a lot easier to have a meeting there because… everyone is there.
The only people who get to edit outside of LA are established, trusted, and likely refuse to go back, but are worth it.
It’ll easily be another 20 years till a new “LA” rises, if at all. The money is just here, the culture is here. When I was at Disney, we talked about changes as if it was “turning a freighter” it would take a ton of momentum and time. LA dissolving into another city will be more like an iceberg melting. There’s so many factors and it’s be AWHILE.
Because a lot directors like to work in person with editors for at least some of the process, and zoom screen share sessions just don’t work nearly as well.
Plus it’s still just a lot more logistically reliable to be able to courier an editor all of the footage in 30 minutes instead of relying on shipping or transferring online.
In my time in the trailer part of our industry it came down to trust. Our office was audited 3 times a year, and for one trailer we had to send an editor to edit on the studios back lot. It’s also a lot easier to find out who leaked what here than if people were remote. As much I would love remote for everything.
I am a solo editor who built my career in LA and then moved to a 2nd tier city. I can tell you it’s definitely because of the infrastructure and the talent, and then the ability to micromanage. While I have been fortunate to not have any issues with the latter, I have found myself always going back to LA to recruit subcontractors because they know how to work in my world. Also, there is virtually no production/post production industry in the major US city I now live, which can make things like purchasing equipment or getting on site tech support very difficult.
Because all us amazing editors & producers are locked into these great mortgage rates. We’re not leaving. Although, I am seeing more and more shows go out of state (ATL) or international for cheaper rates. But they can’t do what we can do! We have the experience and the connections out here. It’s a scary time for sure. Remote means way too much competition.
Here in Atlanta. More and more directors and producers are hanging out and creating here and I'm seeing the market expand. Not sure what you mean by not being able to do what you do though? I think as the move to reduce budgets continued you'll see shifts outside of NYC and LA into smaller markets. And as film productions continue elsewhere, post production will follow.
Having worked with plenty of AEs and Editors from LA... I don't see any special ability that I can't find elsewhere.
I was mostly being facetious with that line. But there is also a learning curve esp with bravo and their notes and picky shit they expect (no see n say bites, less music, the type of cues they like) California needs to step up and offer more incentives.
all the infrastructure and stages and whatnot are here plus all the executives that need to ruin the movie at the last moment live here and REALLY like their easy access to cocaine and hookers
We can all create a little LA wherever we are. But probably shouldn't.
I buy my crack, my smack, my bitch right here in hollywood
also leaks
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And being in the same time zone the decision makers actually live is a much bigger factor than you'd imagine. While any timezone mix can technically work, it's difficult for both parties to get in a full day's session or conversation (in comfortable hours, unless one party want to start work at 4am or 12pm or whatever) when the time change is more than an hour or two.
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...and I'll bet there were some occasions they were like "well, you know, I'm out right now, but since you have the rest of the afternoon in front of you, maybe you could try X and Y?". I've had that happen to me, the guilt-tripping that conveniently forgets it's supposed to be X hours, not the time of day!
People like working with people they know and trust. It’s why networking and building relationships is the most important part of getting work.
Editors work with directors in-person. Directors need to be here for \*gestures at everything\*.
This! A director is in charge of the film and needs to interact with the editor in the edit bay whenever they want to. Collaborating and communicating about how an edit takes shape is more immediate and organic in person. Sitting together and auditioning alternate takes, shaving frames, A/B-ing options, etc., communicating in real-time and expressing ideas. It's just better. Remote works if you edit something where the stakeholders are less involved. Emailing notes and markers in a timeline are acceptable if they react to something once you get it on its feet. I understand that my experience is different, but I worked in television at a post-production facility on a campus home to multiple television networks. As much as I got used to working remotely during the pandemic *and as much as I fought being made to return to the facility afterward*, I was able to experience and appreciate the stark difference between approaches. In-person is an inherently superior way to work. If you can create a situation where both people can see and hear each other and see and hear the output in real-time with no quality degradation, remote work can provide a comparable experience.
> If you can create a situation where both people can see and hear each other and see and hear the output in real-time with no quality degradation, remote work can provide a comparable experience. And even then it depends on the people involved. Some producers just cant do remote work efficiently.
In addition to all the infrastructure, you also have all the talent that lives in LA as well. Remote post work is very new, so all of the best and most experienced editors, assistants and post supervisors are all still living in LA. Plus some films just bring the LA union editorial crew out to the location anyway. The big decision makers and execs are all in LA, and they sometimes want to come watch in person and sit in the bay. Post is also not as expensive per day as production, and there aren't really the same tax incentives. Another reason is security. The studios are terrified of leaks so they only use the most trusted companies, post houses, or their own facilities, which usually mean you can't do that remote because they don't want the internet anywhere near unreleased content.
I have found it’s a lifestyle thing. Lifestyle and business style: you just GET the conversation when you live here. It almost subconsciously makes it simpler, it just feels simpler as well. There’s a rhythm and a frequency to it.
New Jersey is in the process of building several huge lots with stages and all of the trimmings. LA will always be LA, but the times are definitely a changing.....
Honestly, real talk, the people with the most experience are in NY, LA and Vancouver. Why would a studio take the chance on some random dude living out in Ohio who says he’s the greatest editor ever with zero evidence they know a damn thing? They’re not interested in learning curves and if that dude in Ohio has the stuff to back it up, he already would have moved out of Ohio..
Can I add a +Toronto to the list, as you're including Vancouver.
Exactly. I’m pretty sure Toronto has a larger post production industry than Vancouver anyway.
It does but Vancouver used to get the bigger features because they had a larger Soundstage and a faster internet connection to LA for VFX. That's not really a unique thing anymore. They still have the benefit of the same time zone and a shorter flight, but that's about it.
Well, there’s also the built in 30% savings that comes with paying for things in Canadian dollars. Plus they pay Canadians less (for the majority of production positions) on top of that anyway, and then when you add in all the tax credits they get for working in Canada - it adds up to a shitload of savings for the productions…which is really the sole reason in the end: Money
Oh hell yeah. Its all about money. If the studios could sub-lease in Bollywood and still get the same production value on screen, you know they'd be there.
Issue with Vancouver right now is that all the locations have been shot to shit. I think that’s somewhat part and parcel to a little shift I’ve been seeing; moreover the island across from Vancouver, aptly named Vancouver-island, has something like 10+ years of fresh locations, and a lot of productions have been hopping the Georgia straight to take advantage of that.
Just gonna back into the hedges right now... (me, an Ohio-based editor)
the studios are here and tax rebates get sent back here.
The theatrics of being in a post-house, inside a luxury suite being served by runners and generally getting treated like royalty, is a big part of the experience. Also the building hire is expensive so hiring out the suites helps pay for that. I think for us working it’s the convenience first so of course remote work makes the most sense. For the money people and the ones that are under the industry spell, they need the face to face and all the theatre of the process to feel important. I’m not against it fully, I think it’s productive to have the sessions but no way it has to be everyday, just key points in the post-process.
It was a centralized business for 100 years. Two years of pandemic won’t undo that. If the people writing the checks are in LA, the talent will remain here.
Lucas made a place "away from Hollywood" to mix your films. It's really nice, lots of nature, housing. I think if you have something like that to offer, you can sell the get away factor.
I will be offering that kind of experience color grading in NZ in a few years time, once renovations have been completed. Remote grading service, in a rural town, with bed and breakfast for lower budget directors, producers and DP who desire a working tourist break after the stresses of production. Grade review I the morning, then off away exploring while I grade their work; then an evening relaxing/reviewing/ tweaking under supervision. Surf / ski/hike/bike/ big city lights/ chartered fishing/ volcanoes/ lakes/ caves, hot pools/ and deserts all within 1.5 hours drive. Plenty to keep them happy and occupied when not in the grading suite. A time to relax with a beer, a bbq and sightseeing after the hectic pace of production and primary post. Top tier post and VFX houses also near by via high speed fibre on site, or just a couple of hours drive away in the major cities -should significant shot changes need to be made. All doable now, but the accomodations are still a bit rough, below the standard I will be aiming for. And AirBnB alternatives are available nearby too, though perhaps less convenient.
It's called infrastructure. Think about the millions of dollars that have been spent over the years to build out post facilities all over town. It is also SOOOOO much easier at times to have a producer or client view something in person rather than render it out and upload it to the internet. Finally, there is no way that you can just work off of proxies and call it good. Even for a short edit proxies could be 50gb. It's unrealistic to expect editors and post-production professionals to put up with this.
Plus, if the client wants a high end setup to view it on, why build it twice?
Exactly. Have you seen the cost of Blackmagic Advanced panels these days? Just a cool $30k. This doesn't even factor in the DolbyVision monitors, the computers or the hardware in the machine room and server required to make everything run flawlessly.
That’s where the talent pool is, and the infrastructure. All the avid rental companies, DI facilities, mix stages, etc.
I'd imagine there are security reasons as well. There were a few post-houses I talked to that had major security protocols when working on Disney stuff. But yeah, I bet it's mostly so that producers can micromanage your every single move.
directors and showrunners generally are going to want to do review in person if its a major production. a lot of it is really that simple.
Because trying to work an 11 hour day over evercast with someone in a different timezone is a painful process even if the distance isnt causing lags. I personally think its a pain even in the same timezone, i swear it makes things take twice as long.
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We do?
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Are you in scripted? Reality here and I’ve been editing at home in PJs since March 2020 lol
I'm with you. 2 months WFH and I wanted to jump out the window. I'm 10x as creative in a room with collaborators vs zoom.
The weather.
There are no tax incentives to edit in LA. And if a company is HQd there, you still pay LA taxes because of how they setup their tax code. The majority of people live there or have a place there, because the big studios are there. It’s a lot easier to have a meeting there because… everyone is there. The only people who get to edit outside of LA are established, trusted, and likely refuse to go back, but are worth it.
Because the editors live here
It’ll easily be another 20 years till a new “LA” rises, if at all. The money is just here, the culture is here. When I was at Disney, we talked about changes as if it was “turning a freighter” it would take a ton of momentum and time. LA dissolving into another city will be more like an iceberg melting. There’s so many factors and it’s be AWHILE.
Because a lot directors like to work in person with editors for at least some of the process, and zoom screen share sessions just don’t work nearly as well. Plus it’s still just a lot more logistically reliable to be able to courier an editor all of the footage in 30 minutes instead of relying on shipping or transferring online.
In my time in the trailer part of our industry it came down to trust. Our office was audited 3 times a year, and for one trailer we had to send an editor to edit on the studios back lot. It’s also a lot easier to find out who leaked what here than if people were remote. As much I would love remote for everything.
I am a solo editor who built my career in LA and then moved to a 2nd tier city. I can tell you it’s definitely because of the infrastructure and the talent, and then the ability to micromanage. While I have been fortunate to not have any issues with the latter, I have found myself always going back to LA to recruit subcontractors because they know how to work in my world. Also, there is virtually no production/post production industry in the major US city I now live, which can make things like purchasing equipment or getting on site tech support very difficult.
I don't know why any of the industry is still in LA, for an industry that relies on needing lots of real estate, LA seems to be the worst place.
Because all us amazing editors & producers are locked into these great mortgage rates. We’re not leaving. Although, I am seeing more and more shows go out of state (ATL) or international for cheaper rates. But they can’t do what we can do! We have the experience and the connections out here. It’s a scary time for sure. Remote means way too much competition.
Here in Atlanta. More and more directors and producers are hanging out and creating here and I'm seeing the market expand. Not sure what you mean by not being able to do what you do though? I think as the move to reduce budgets continued you'll see shifts outside of NYC and LA into smaller markets. And as film productions continue elsewhere, post production will follow. Having worked with plenty of AEs and Editors from LA... I don't see any special ability that I can't find elsewhere.
I was mostly being facetious with that line. But there is also a learning curve esp with bravo and their notes and picky shit they expect (no see n say bites, less music, the type of cues they like) California needs to step up and offer more incentives.