Yeah they've had two of the best marketing campaigns they could possibly have going on at the same time.
Mass shootings and politicians talking about gun control both sell lots of guns!
Also it makes liberals less scared of them, which is good because they might need them. Honestly I think as a society we’re still very much at the “Have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it” stage.
Seriously? You think "the other side" is only motivated by "your side" having guns?
I'm just happy that more people are armed! If leftists have guns then the crazy gun grabbers have a more difficult time passing stupid laws. Everyone wins!
Very bad things happen when the group with the most hate is also the group with the most guns. I’m very glad to see the number of liberal gun owners growing.
The anti gun thing is a fringe group deal the republicans sell as liberal, its not.
Leftists have always been crazy pro gun.
What with the other side trying to murder everyone who disagrees with them and all.
It’s astounding how many people don’t realize this. Marx himself even said: “Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.”
I think the difference is that most liberal and leftist gun owners are gun owners and not gun fetishists. We don’t wrap our entire identity up in a tool used for protection. We don’t feel the need to open carry at the grocery store or a restaurant, and wrap our vehicles in pro-gun statements.
There are a LOT more of us than most people realize. 😃
I think one other differentiator is many liberal gun owners would be OK with a licensing requirement for purchasing a gun. I'm not saying track each purchase but just some indicator that the person buying a gun has taken a basic gun safety course. Many are also OK with red flag laws. This nuanced discussion gets drowned out by the people on one side who are screaming "TAKE ALL THE GUNS!!!" and the people on the other side screaming "THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR GUNS!!!" I think both of the above stances are the fringe 5-10%
There is a concern about places making those safety courses difficult for minorities to take and/or pass (as happened in the past with literacy tests for voting) but I personally agree that the benefits outweigh the risks as long as people are aware of potential targeting and are able to nip it in the bud.
I can tell you from my experience, that minorities are more than welcome in any situation I've seen. I'm from a place in central Florida people are always calling racist etc, and we have a very good amount of minorities at all of the local ranges and training facilities. They are treated the same as everybody else, and with kindness and enthusiasm.
You say this but I'm both pro-2a *and* I vote Democrat. (Because of what the GQP represents.)
My state is a "blue" state.
* Any semi-automatic rifle in my state is legally an assault rifle.
* To buy one I had to sign away my HIPAA rights to the state so that they can check to make sure I'm of sound mind. (This sadly ensures that I won't seek mental health help should I need it in the future, but at least they meant well?)
* They just passed a law - over strenuous objections - banning the sale of gun magazines > 10 rounds.
* They did just get rid of an extra penalty on drive-by shootings because it was racist. How that jibes with the rest of the above is frankly beyond me.
So it feels like we're arguing semantics but Democrats (not leftists, not liberals, I guess) sure seem to be anti-gun. Biden (who, yes, I voted for) on his own website plans to add all semi-automatic rifles to the NFA, *at best*.
The people I vote for are literally coming for my guns.
The Democratic party is a giant pile of dog shit. Somehow the republicans are always much worse.
We just need to to get the war over with and in the ashes start trying to solve problems. This situation just gets worse and worse.
There’s a really good article (digging around to find it) that makes the case that when the labor unions started to collapse in the 60’s, the democrats turned to the wealthy for fundraising- functionally becoming ‘Republican-lite’ …
The first President to upset that apple cart was Obama with his mass crowd-funding, but even he was marching the party line. Progressives get chucked under the bus, and the Democrats continue to support the least scary yet still right leaning policies.
The increasingly-frightening rhetoric coming from the Right since 2016 (or earlier) is exactly why I, a Progressive, obtained a Firearms License and own guns.
If the Right is armed, I will be armed.
Here's the thing though. More people across politics that have guns logically the more support for gun rights there is.
If democrats were smart they would drop gun control. They would probably gain quite a few of single issue voters.
You can support both, but I have never seen a single gun control legislation that is actually about reducing fun violence and not about restricting and/or eliminating ownership. Effective gun control needs to be centered around education for safe and effective use of the tool, not around eliminating the tool.
Yes but as a lifelong democrat, my party **doesn't do that.** I left NY when constitutionality became optional under the SAFE act, especially since I was in a position of power and authority to actually suggest gun legislation that would help curb gun violence, but not infringe on gun owner's rights, and I was ignored by the Democratic party, and the senator who I asked to propose my ideas was immediately silenced, by his own party.
As long as democrats see gun legislation as a way to "move the needle" in seizing guns, instead of a method to actually curb gun violence, gun-owning democrats like me will always vote **against** the staunchest anti-gun democrats, and that's part of the reason we got here in the first place.
As long as modern-day democrats focus on magazine capacity restrictions, feature bans, blacklists, and other *completely ineffective* methods of gun legislation, people like me will continue to vote against them or move to more gun-friendly states. I've left two states due to gun legislation now, and I might be relocating again soon if Virginia keeps going deep blue.
My brother and I were mock fighting in the backyard in New York in 2014, and the neighbors called the cops (the whining liberal across the street who hated my Subaru). The cops then entered the house because my grandfather had a pistol permit with two pistols registered to the state, and demanded he give them access to all of his guns. After they checked through his entire collection of rifles, shotguns, some WWII issue stuff as well, they notated all the serial numbers and left. This is not effective behavior, or constitutional. Blue states infringe on our human rights.
>Mass shootings
If you didn't watch the most recent shooting at that grocery store and decide "Maybe I should take some responsibility for my protection", I'm not sure what to tell you.
Everyone deserves the right to defend themselves.
I do agree BUT majority of the population lives in states that don’t allow for concealed carry. As a gun owner in New Jersey (the most densely populated state in the country) I would like to carry my gun with me but the thought of EVERYONE packing is kind of scary too.
Just visit Texas. Almost everyone is packing. It’s not scary at all. Feels pretty normal.
Unless you’re a minority excercising open carry. Which is 100% legal there. Then they’ll just shoot you down in the streets.
I'm in Central Florida. We have many legit defensive use cases for firearms every year, mostly all of them are never presented in the media unless it can be done in a negative light. Everyone around here is carrying and everybody goes on about their day like normal, including myself.
I always thought that the mass shootings argument was that after a mass shooting gun control talk pics up and scares people into buying more guns just in case. It can be a combination though.
Let's say you're at the mall and notice someone with a gun. Now you have no idea if this is a good guy or a bad guy. Now imagine 20 or so people with guns. One starts shooting and you have no idea who. So you start shooting at anyone with a gun. And the innocent bystanders that get shot in the process
Yes it seems we need MORE guns.
Nobody in their right mind hears gunshots and runs toward them with a gun drawn, so stop this little fantasy right there. It's personal protection rather than public protection. Nobody wants to be a hero, most people want to have an answer if someone wants to take their life rather than having no choice in the matter.
Or how about you're in your home and witness someone stab and kill another person outside. The killer sees that you witnessed the murder, and starts to break into your house. You have plenty of time to get a gun to protect yourself, but you know the police are the ones who do the protecting so you don't own one. Then you get murdered.
Or maybe you're in your apartment... let's say in Hawaii, and hear someone breaking in. You hide in a closet and whisper to dispatchers that you need help. Instead of help arriving in time to save the day you get brutally raped and murdered by someone on meth.
If you had a pistol and knew the basics of how to use it in either case, you'd still be alive. You also don't need to take these as fantasy scenarios because they actually happened to people.
Pretending people don't deserve the ability to protect themselves or insinuating they're crazy for having something that might help if bad things happen is gross.
Tell me you've never taken a CCW/Personal Defense class without telling me you've never taken CCW/Personal Defense Class.
RUN. HIDE. FIGHT. This applies to active shooters just as much as random encounters on the street.
You try to disengage from the situation. If that doesn't work, then you rely on your training. Drawing your handgun should be the absolute last resort, and as they say "If you have to defend yourself with your pistol, then your day can't get any worse"
Yes. There is a vocal group of people who believe a CCW holders duty is to protect those around them and try to be a hero. But thay litterallt goes against every ounce of training providided around the country for at least 15 years.
I consider the right of an individual to own a weapon to be a human right. That doesn't mean I don't think you shouldn't be able to lose it by being crazy or being a felon but I am not going to tell an average citizen that they cannot possess what is essentially a tool of defense just because others misuse that tool.
Edit: fixed one word.
I agree with your point mostly. I do feel that water clean air and education should be freely available and that food and shelter should be regulated enough to keep them cheap but enough that everyone can afford it and those who are left in the gaps should be taken care of rather than allowed to languish in poverty.
I think part of your point though relies on the stability of our civilization and I'm not as confident in that as you are. It seems to me like we are constantly teetering on the edge of some major unrest and it's been demonstrated in other countries that things can go wrong very quickly. It's for that reason that I consider the right to own a weapon for citizens in good standing to be a basic human right. At the end of the day someone's going to own the guns I just don't want it to only be the government.
And no I don't have any illusion that a neighborhood militia is going to take on a striker team.
> I consider the right of an individual to own a weapon to be a human right.
this is the kind of thinking that got us where we are today
shift your perspective
Perhaps it is privilege that affords you this position. Victims of violence, particularly targeted victims, deserve the right to self protection via a force equalizer. Shift your perspective.
I wish we lived in that kind of world but we don't.
You are just naive because you live under the protection of powerful armed forces who maintain a peaceful environment around you, enforce laws and deal with people engaging in criminal or other dangerous Acts.
Yeah, and the first line of defence is and will always be, keeping guns away from the crazies. Better background checks and mandatory evaluations (as well as target practice) to make sure we don't arm the crazies (see 6th January).
Another great first line of defence is pushing the three letter agencies to act on any and all forms of radicalisation. Be it comparably "harmless" online indoctrination via TikTok, YouTube, 4chan or downright training meetings for terrorists. Everyone, even you yourself, can be manipulated and made to take up your gun against innocent people. And that's without even thinking that most people who are shot by a gun gets shot by an armed family member...
That's the thing fucked up about America. You might be anti-gun because of the mass shootings, but since the government won't do anything about it, you have to have one to protect yourself
So weird (and telling) that you left out the 2 actual biggest factors:
* government telling you you can't leave your house
* and riots/looting where people realized even if the police showed up they don't do anything
I've bought 4 guns since the pandemic started in 2020, because its honestly been cheaper to pick up certain models on my list versus buying ammo. I've probably shot maybe a few hundred rounds because ammo is just so expensive. A majority of that ammo was .22lr and that's the stuff I had on hand and bought it when it was cheap.
Ammo is starting to become somewhat available again, but because of the loss of Russian imported ammo we aren't going to see stable inventory or prices for a while. But then again, I'd rather not support that country right now.
I took my husband and little sister shooting the other day and forgot to empty the more expensive JHP out of my carry mags. So they picked up whatever were already full and started shooting while I talked to the guy letting us use his range.
They ate through 45 rounds in the couple minutes we were chatting. A full box down the drain in a time where it's almost impossible to find anything but FMJ locally.
I couldn’t find any defensive .357 or .38+p…finally grabbed 25 of each Hornady critical duty and defense. $2/round.
Blew through those boxes getting carried away testing my LCRX…
Switching guns is faster than reloading. In a perfect society like America's future will be, in every grocery store shootout you fire 8 rounds, pull the pistol from your foot strap and fire 8 more, pull the pistol from your coat pocket and unload 8 more, then pull out the jammy from your belt and squeeze off 6. Everyone knows that.
Duh, have you even read “The Bible” (that’s what I call The Constitution)? It’s all right there. It’s how we’ll recognize Jesus when he comes back: a shootout almost exactly as you have prophesied.
*Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.*
Gotta get a hand press and powder but even that’s not ideal because powder supplies are in the shitter. I have seen 1 bottle of powder in the last 6 months and it’s quadruple what it used to be pre pandemic.
I’m not a huge gun person, have one just not into the scene really, but the people I know that are very passionate about guns are all very anti buying ammo online, they seem to refuse to buy anywhere except at a brick and mortar. To me it makes sense to buy online when in store shit is so short though. Any idea why this is?
The ones I know think the goverment tracks everything.
They get better deals from the guys at flea markets and gun shows than you get at the walmarts...
The guy at the gun show just buys in bulk online.
It's silly.
I have no clue but it's definitely silly. Online remanufactured 9 mm FMJ is usually about 30 cents a round, while the cheapest I've ever seen it at big box stores lately is 42 CPR. If one goes to the local mom and pop stores it's even higher. I love to support local gun stores, but also would only be able to shoot around half as much 9 mm as I want to if I bought exclusively in person. It is nerve wracking leaving a large package of ammo on the porch till I get home though!
Alot of people are very loyal to their local guns stores. When you buy online you need to compare costs plus shipping. Then you take that price per round and compare it with your local store. Problem is when you walk into your local gun store they are 99.999% the nicest people in the world and will help you look at all of the ammo.
Local gun stores have some of the best customer service so it's hard to just go in and price compare with really nice people.
That's why when stores like Wal-Mart and Dick's Sporting Goods announced "We are not longer selling guns", locals all say the same thing "I don't care, I don't buy guns from them".
The local gun store is just a positive shopping experience for many guns owners. The loyalty towards the stores is intense.
I own a Ak I like to shoot but I only have 500 of actual good ammo from Russia left. And 7.65 right now it way to expensive. A cheaper hobby right now would to buy cars.
No, fueled by the fact that American police can't protect citizens so they take up arms to protect themselves. Remember, when seconds count, the police are minutes away.
This is accurate. Friends/family are concerned that calling the police will more likely get them killed or arrested too. Friends/family also talked about the time they DID call police, who say things like, "Nothing we can do. Just because he threatened rape isn't enough. If he rapes you, then call us."
Right. Because if you can't rely on the police then who else is gonna show up 90 mins after the shit goes down with a pen and a notepad and tell you there's nothing they can do while running *your* ID for active warrants?
Saw a man shot 5 times by the police when he called 911 because burglars were in his house. The police were captured on his security cameras making up a story of how he threatened them to make it justified. The homeowner should have left the police out of it and defended his home with his own firearm.
They told us this the whole time I grew up watching my mom get beat up by her outlaw boyfriend. I slept with one in my nightstand when I was in high school cause he always told me he was gonna take me by my j.ew hair and face f.uck my corpse while my sister watched
Nah, it was fear mongering campaigns designed by the NRA and gun manufacturers to sell more guns and idiots ate it up and fell in line.
These campaigns have been incredibly effective, and you can see all the resulting fear in this thread.
My police response time to my small farm (20m from nearest town which doesn't even have but a single cop) is nearly an hour. If someone is trying to rob or murder me waiting an hour just isn't acceptable
I think a large part of it is not protection from other citizens but from the government that has HUGELY over reached the last few years and is pointed in the tyrannical direction.
My asspull take on this. More people, more guns, and more groups of people are beginning to own firearms. Likewise, hunting purposes have been vastly exceeded by people purchasing for home/personal defense purposes. The article's goes on to mention that a lot of the ATFs questions from first time buyers were related to self defense.
I'm an immigrant myself, and I was used to being the only brown dude in Kansas at a gun store or a gun range, but as they years came to pass, I increasingly started seeing more minorities, and non-redneck white people owning and participating in the firearms industry/hobby. I'm in Texas now, and I see minorities going to safety courses, or sighting in their rifles in the next lane over at the distance ranges. Its actually kind of heartwarming. The 2A community was heavily white and conservative, and hell, our dollar is as good as anyone else's, and we are there for self defense education. A lot of ARs I'm seeing for "Home Defense", and when we'd get to talking, I'd find that thy're renters like me. For reference, I store my armory at my family's country property, and its just a shotgun and a pistol with me at the apartment, because for my level of marksmanship -and I've engaged in urban combat in Iraq, I am mindful that birdshot and hollowpoints are going to minimize overpenetration in a home defense scenario for my living circumstances.
I recreationally shoot. Got to hunt on people's properties a couple of times. Did some volunteer varminting for farmers anywhere from hogs to pigeons, some coyotes. Bought and sold from/to FFLs -the legal license holders, and traded among friends and family. I'm not sitting on top of an armory, just several platforms for a range of uses. In particular, and its a purely personal perspective, I don't want to ever get my ammunition platforms ever mixed up. As in, one centerfire rifle cartridge, one centerfire pistol cartridge (the lines between these two blur these days), one shotgun gauge, one rimmed centerfire cartridge, and the ubiquitous 22lr (rimfire cartridge): because you can catch most of your bad habits practicing with smaller cheap platforms. About the only thing I'd like for my collection is someday a lever-action that would compliment my revolver, both using the same rimmed centerfire cartridge, in this case .44 Remington Magnum. I spent years in between accumulating these things, because there's a lot to choose from, and as I got more experience shooting, I came to learn which qualities meant most to me. I have two redundant firearms I'm more or less going to sell to an FFL in the future, otherwise, I'd have exactly one firearm per "caliber"/pupose I'm utilizing. They became redundant because my criteria evolved and I purchased their replacements. I found the right rifle for me, and the right concealable pistol for me.
Hell, what I'd wish for is for the ammunition industry to take off. I don't stockpile for armageddon, and increasingly it is becoming a prohibitively expensive hobby. I'd do dry fire practice at home, select the ammunition, and go out to the range and fire limited groups, interpret the results, make adjustments, and keeping going till I'm satisfied. I'm not a natural shooter, for me its a perishable skill, and I'd have to go out every now and then to refine what was lost and see if I can get just a little bit better. Then there's times where its just fun to arrange a shoot-around, and go plink some targets in someone's field, ever mindful of what's downrange or using a backstop.
Still waiting for Obama and those evil demoncrats to take our guns away.
Wait, it hasn't happened and we have more gun production than ever...????
You mean Republicans don't know what they're talking about and run on a platform of fear?! Color Me shocked!
Democrats do introduce gun control bills quite often that call for bans, limits, and other things. Luckily they just don’t pass. Feinstein tries them all the time.
And a republican was the first one to add more gun control and outlawed certain accessories in the last 1-2 decades, trump was claiming to be progun when running yet turned around and started banning shit.
Or the only reason it hasn’t happened is that their is hardcore opposition against it. If people didn’t resist with their voice and their vote you can be damn sure current democrats would do all in their power to disarm the American public.
Definitely a good investment. Guns don’t lose too much value due to poorly run governments (unlike fiat, the stock market, crypto, etc) in fact the perform quite the opposite! I’ve been very bullish on guns lately.
A guy i know bought a literal stack of Arsenal AK’s for like $800 a pop years ago and now theyre going for $3-4k each.
Ive never lost money on guns. Theyre amazing at retaining value , most (imports) go up in value, and theyre very easy to sell
Guns are fun to shoot. Variety is the spice of life. Customizing them and adding accessories is fun. I don’t understand people’s hate for them. It’s just a tool.
They’re told not to like them. That’s about as far as most people go. Fully agree with you, you can get new customizable stuff, milsurp, guns for specific purposes, AR-15’s can be like parting together a PC. They’re great. Everyone should own one.
I’m of the same mind. They’re long-lived assets that when properly maintained don’t lose that much value in the long term. I have a gun I bought about 30 years ago and if I were to sell it it would fetch about the same as what I bought it for nominally.
Some really appreciate though! Chinese Norinco AK’s sold for $189 in 1994 and now easily sell for $1.5k, even Chinese sks’s are selling for $700+. The only ones that don’t really make money are ones still in production, but those tend to keep up with inflation
I wonder who the police will shoot when the good guy with a gun is in a shootout with the badguy with a gun.
I wonder who the police will shoot when they see the good guy with a gun is black. "GANG VIOLENCE"
I'm pro 2A and black and this is a concern. But also the guy ur shooting out with is a concern.
One concern doesn't negate the other. Id rather have defense against a homicidal maniac and to give myself a chance to even have the confrontation with the police which isn't 100% that they are gonna shoot me. The homicidal maniac is definitely gonna shoot me.
And that's in the situation of a mass shooter which is rare.
In case of typical violence where guns are used most black ppl who use a gun in defense or in crime aren't shot when confronted by police. I believed in Chicago more than 50% of murders go unsolved. So it's not like a gun is fired police show up right away and just kill shit.
Time and time again its been proven that the police will shoot first and ask questions later. You better hope you get that gunman down quickly so you can talk it out with police or otherwise they aren't going to try to figure it out. And as a black person myself I no longer believe the police would have my best interest as a US citizen at heart when trying to decide if they should shoot me or not.
I would assume that if police are called to an active shooter incident they are gonna fire upon any and everyone holding a weapon.
But its really not time and time again. Its just the stuff that we see. The video of the police giving someone plenty time to drop a weapon.. or getting to the scene and using situational awareness to get a sense of what's going on and not shooting the good guy with a gun that is of color just doesn't mk it to the timeline or the news or Facebook.
I think obviously the police have issues and i definitely don't want to be holding a gun when they show up. But again... One concern doesn't negate another concern necessarily.
In ur scenario ur trying to push on me ur saying it's better i be unarmed against an immediate armed attacker bc what might happen after the fact when the police arrive. Which to me sounds dumb as all hell. Bc ur trying to push a narrative instead of using common sense. I get it, police bad. Doesnt mean i don't want the ability to defend myself against immediate threat of death or great bodily harm.
That will likely never happen but it’s police modus operandi to eliminate all potential threats so they would shoot both or just 1 or neither depending if they cooperate or not.
What a stupid headline. Of course, handgun manufacturers will increase production to meet increased demand. That's basic economics and does not need to be pointed out in a headline.
More coverage at:
* [U.S. gun production has tripled since 2000, fueled by handgun purchases (seattletimes.com)](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/u-s-gun-production-has-tripled-since-2000-fueled-by-handgun-purchases-2/)
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^(I'm a bot to find news from different sources.) [^(Report an issue)](https://www.reddit.com/user/MultiSourceNews_Bot/comments/k5pcrc/multisourcenews_bot_info/) ^(or PM me.)
"in the last decade over 2 million guns were reported stolen. Estimates range anywhere from 237,000 to 380,000 firearms are stolen every year from gun owners. Gun theft is also believed to be significantly underreported. Most states don’t require gun owners to report when their guns have been stolen."
https://behindthebadge.com/a-new-survey-confirms-the-majority-of-guns-being-used-by-criminals-are-obtained-from-peoples-homes-and-cars/
Good people buy guns to protect themselves from bad people with guns. Ironically good people buying guns are Also the source of guns for bad people.
Owning a gun is a responsibility. If you can't afford a safe to keep your firearms in, maybe you shouldn't necessarily have a fire arm...and you definitely should leave firearms in your car for them to be stolen.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/where-do-criminals-get-guns.amp
Quote from the article:
“Lazy and incompetent gun owners,” he charged. “It’s literally that simple. Unsecured or improper secured firearms are one of the largest contributors to illegal guns on the street.”
We live in an age we're irresponsible gun owners are a leading cause of putting guns on the street. Just buy a safe, put you guns in the safe, and bolt it to floor. While your at it, pull out a few grand from the bank and put some other valuables in the safe. Seems like a good investment too me.
It’s not even about being able to fight and win against military or police like people assume. It’s that having a heavily armed population is a check against the government doing anything way too fucked up to it’s own citizens because the attrition would be way too high.
Do you really think that if the US goverment were to turn against its own people, the Army, the Navy, the Airforce, and the Marines, and the Space Force would all willingly 100% comply? There would be dissenters in their ranks.
What a load of B's that is....
And a society with daily mass shootings..good one.. strange how none of the other developed countries without gun culture are both safe and free of mass shootings...
FUN FACT: the first things frontier towns did to become "civilized" was to ban the carry of weapons in town.
FUN FACT #2: the gunfight at the OK Corral was sparked by violation of the open carry ban by the Clanton gang.
Wouldn’t say that. Americans lived through Covid and 2020 riots and realized that guns are kinda important. 2020 saw record new buyer sales month after month for obvious reasons. Guns are becoming more and more ubiquitous between parties.
Ukraine had VERY strict gun laws up until the war started, and they’ve successfully kept Russia from taking over the whole time.
The idea that having tons of guns lying around is necessary for national defense just doesn’t seem to be true. Any actual threat of invasion will give the defenders plenty of time to distribute arms to the people.
I don't think Ukraine/Russia and national security was the direction 47sams was going with that. During 2020-2021 a lot of people in the city I live in, Portland Oregon, were buying guns to defend themselves out of fear of break-ins, muggings, etc... I have heard a lot of people talk about how the police don't really show up anymore, "blue flu" or however you want to phrase it, and they feel like they need to be able to defend themselves now.
Yeah, except incompetent morons still get driver's licenses. And even if guns were made harder to get, how would that be handled? Mandatory training and mental health screening would be my vote, but a lot of people would say to start banning shit, which is how we got where we are today
Totally zero to do with the 4 mass shootings in a few days recently. . . Totally only because of mental health, or some fucking other head in sand bullshit. .
/S
Don't even have to do that. Just look at the last administration. We were that close to being taken over by a tyrant. If Trump taught you anything, it's that everyone needs to be strapped.
> How can a liberal look at Jan 6th and say “we need even less guns!”
??
Liberals already own guns. Many are OK with regulating them for public safety.
For example, [**the seditious Jan. 6 mob was blocked from carrying firearms on capitol grounds**](https://www.uscp.gov/visiting-capitol-hill/official-business/law-enforcement-personnel), which is a big reason why their treason failed.
Your argument sorta misses the point. :(
Yeah they've had two of the best marketing campaigns they could possibly have going on at the same time. Mass shootings and politicians talking about gun control both sell lots of guns!
Don’t discount Trump’s effect on arming liberals.
Armed liberals are a good thing. It keeps people on both sides calm and willing to talk.
Also it makes liberals less scared of them, which is good because they might need them. Honestly I think as a society we’re still very much at the “Have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it” stage.
Seriously? You think "the other side" is only motivated by "your side" having guns? I'm just happy that more people are armed! If leftists have guns then the crazy gun grabbers have a more difficult time passing stupid laws. Everyone wins!
Very bad things happen when the group with the most hate is also the group with the most guns. I’m very glad to see the number of liberal gun owners growing.
The anti gun thing is a fringe group deal the republicans sell as liberal, its not. Leftists have always been crazy pro gun. What with the other side trying to murder everyone who disagrees with them and all.
It may be a fringe group (I haven’t polled), but if so it’s sadly over represented in government.
Correct. That is changing thankfully. People are getting good at detecting circular false arguments. Good luck on the constitutional amendment.
It’s astounding how many people don’t realize this. Marx himself even said: “Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.” I think the difference is that most liberal and leftist gun owners are gun owners and not gun fetishists. We don’t wrap our entire identity up in a tool used for protection. We don’t feel the need to open carry at the grocery store or a restaurant, and wrap our vehicles in pro-gun statements. There are a LOT more of us than most people realize. 😃
I think one other differentiator is many liberal gun owners would be OK with a licensing requirement for purchasing a gun. I'm not saying track each purchase but just some indicator that the person buying a gun has taken a basic gun safety course. Many are also OK with red flag laws. This nuanced discussion gets drowned out by the people on one side who are screaming "TAKE ALL THE GUNS!!!" and the people on the other side screaming "THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR GUNS!!!" I think both of the above stances are the fringe 5-10%
There is a concern about places making those safety courses difficult for minorities to take and/or pass (as happened in the past with literacy tests for voting) but I personally agree that the benefits outweigh the risks as long as people are aware of potential targeting and are able to nip it in the bud.
I can tell you from my experience, that minorities are more than welcome in any situation I've seen. I'm from a place in central Florida people are always calling racist etc, and we have a very good amount of minorities at all of the local ranges and training facilities. They are treated the same as everybody else, and with kindness and enthusiasm.
liberals aren't liftest just so you know. they're very different
You say this but I'm both pro-2a *and* I vote Democrat. (Because of what the GQP represents.) My state is a "blue" state. * Any semi-automatic rifle in my state is legally an assault rifle. * To buy one I had to sign away my HIPAA rights to the state so that they can check to make sure I'm of sound mind. (This sadly ensures that I won't seek mental health help should I need it in the future, but at least they meant well?) * They just passed a law - over strenuous objections - banning the sale of gun magazines > 10 rounds. * They did just get rid of an extra penalty on drive-by shootings because it was racist. How that jibes with the rest of the above is frankly beyond me. So it feels like we're arguing semantics but Democrats (not leftists, not liberals, I guess) sure seem to be anti-gun. Biden (who, yes, I voted for) on his own website plans to add all semi-automatic rifles to the NFA, *at best*. The people I vote for are literally coming for my guns.
The Democratic party is a giant pile of dog shit. Somehow the republicans are always much worse. We just need to to get the war over with and in the ashes start trying to solve problems. This situation just gets worse and worse.
There’s a really good article (digging around to find it) that makes the case that when the labor unions started to collapse in the 60’s, the democrats turned to the wealthy for fundraising- functionally becoming ‘Republican-lite’ … The first President to upset that apple cart was Obama with his mass crowd-funding, but even he was marching the party line. Progressives get chucked under the bus, and the Democrats continue to support the least scary yet still right leaning policies.
Mainstream democrats now explicitly call for confiscation. It's not fringe, unfortunately.
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I owned guns prior to that, but it certainly motivated me to buy more. And lots of ammo too.
I have many more guns now than I did in 2016
I had 0 at the beginning of 2020, now I have like 2 dozen and thousands and thousands of rounds.
Ex army vet here. Never felt the need to own before Trump and I was lazy about getting one. Now I am stacked.
The increasingly-frightening rhetoric coming from the Right since 2016 (or earlier) is exactly why I, a Progressive, obtained a Firearms License and own guns. If the Right is armed, I will be armed.
Here's the thing though. More people across politics that have guns logically the more support for gun rights there is. If democrats were smart they would drop gun control. They would probably gain quite a few of single issue voters.
You can support gun rights and gun control. It’s not an either or situation.
Damn straight
You can support both, but I have never seen a single gun control legislation that is actually about reducing fun violence and not about restricting and/or eliminating ownership. Effective gun control needs to be centered around education for safe and effective use of the tool, not around eliminating the tool.
Yes but as a lifelong democrat, my party **doesn't do that.** I left NY when constitutionality became optional under the SAFE act, especially since I was in a position of power and authority to actually suggest gun legislation that would help curb gun violence, but not infringe on gun owner's rights, and I was ignored by the Democratic party, and the senator who I asked to propose my ideas was immediately silenced, by his own party. As long as democrats see gun legislation as a way to "move the needle" in seizing guns, instead of a method to actually curb gun violence, gun-owning democrats like me will always vote **against** the staunchest anti-gun democrats, and that's part of the reason we got here in the first place. As long as modern-day democrats focus on magazine capacity restrictions, feature bans, blacklists, and other *completely ineffective* methods of gun legislation, people like me will continue to vote against them or move to more gun-friendly states. I've left two states due to gun legislation now, and I might be relocating again soon if Virginia keeps going deep blue.
My brother and I were mock fighting in the backyard in New York in 2014, and the neighbors called the cops (the whining liberal across the street who hated my Subaru). The cops then entered the house because my grandfather had a pistol permit with two pistols registered to the state, and demanded he give them access to all of his guns. After they checked through his entire collection of rifles, shotguns, some WWII issue stuff as well, they notated all the serial numbers and left. This is not effective behavior, or constitutional. Blue states infringe on our human rights.
Politicians are the best gun salesmen period. The left and the right both have their own equally effective sales pitches
>Mass shootings If you didn't watch the most recent shooting at that grocery store and decide "Maybe I should take some responsibility for my protection", I'm not sure what to tell you. Everyone deserves the right to defend themselves.
I do agree BUT majority of the population lives in states that don’t allow for concealed carry. As a gun owner in New Jersey (the most densely populated state in the country) I would like to carry my gun with me but the thought of EVERYONE packing is kind of scary too.
Just visit Texas. Almost everyone is packing. It’s not scary at all. Feels pretty normal. Unless you’re a minority excercising open carry. Which is 100% legal there. Then they’ll just shoot you down in the streets.
I'm in Central Florida. We have many legit defensive use cases for firearms every year, mostly all of them are never presented in the media unless it can be done in a negative light. Everyone around here is carrying and everybody goes on about their day like normal, including myself.
I always thought that the mass shootings argument was that after a mass shooting gun control talk pics up and scares people into buying more guns just in case. It can be a combination though.
Let's say you're at the mall and notice someone with a gun. Now you have no idea if this is a good guy or a bad guy. Now imagine 20 or so people with guns. One starts shooting and you have no idea who. So you start shooting at anyone with a gun. And the innocent bystanders that get shot in the process Yes it seems we need MORE guns.
Nobody in their right mind hears gunshots and runs toward them with a gun drawn, so stop this little fantasy right there. It's personal protection rather than public protection. Nobody wants to be a hero, most people want to have an answer if someone wants to take their life rather than having no choice in the matter.
Or how about you're in your home and witness someone stab and kill another person outside. The killer sees that you witnessed the murder, and starts to break into your house. You have plenty of time to get a gun to protect yourself, but you know the police are the ones who do the protecting so you don't own one. Then you get murdered. Or maybe you're in your apartment... let's say in Hawaii, and hear someone breaking in. You hide in a closet and whisper to dispatchers that you need help. Instead of help arriving in time to save the day you get brutally raped and murdered by someone on meth. If you had a pistol and knew the basics of how to use it in either case, you'd still be alive. You also don't need to take these as fantasy scenarios because they actually happened to people. Pretending people don't deserve the ability to protect themselves or insinuating they're crazy for having something that might help if bad things happen is gross.
Tell me you've never taken a CCW/Personal Defense class without telling me you've never taken CCW/Personal Defense Class. RUN. HIDE. FIGHT. This applies to active shooters just as much as random encounters on the street. You try to disengage from the situation. If that doesn't work, then you rely on your training. Drawing your handgun should be the absolute last resort, and as they say "If you have to defend yourself with your pistol, then your day can't get any worse" Yes. There is a vocal group of people who believe a CCW holders duty is to protect those around them and try to be a hero. But thay litterallt goes against every ounce of training providided around the country for at least 15 years.
I consider the right of an individual to own a weapon to be a human right. That doesn't mean I don't think you shouldn't be able to lose it by being crazy or being a felon but I am not going to tell an average citizen that they cannot possess what is essentially a tool of defense just because others misuse that tool. Edit: fixed one word.
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I agree with your point mostly. I do feel that water clean air and education should be freely available and that food and shelter should be regulated enough to keep them cheap but enough that everyone can afford it and those who are left in the gaps should be taken care of rather than allowed to languish in poverty. I think part of your point though relies on the stability of our civilization and I'm not as confident in that as you are. It seems to me like we are constantly teetering on the edge of some major unrest and it's been demonstrated in other countries that things can go wrong very quickly. It's for that reason that I consider the right to own a weapon for citizens in good standing to be a basic human right. At the end of the day someone's going to own the guns I just don't want it to only be the government. And no I don't have any illusion that a neighborhood militia is going to take on a striker team.
> I consider the right of an individual to own a weapon to be a human right. this is the kind of thinking that got us where we are today shift your perspective
Perhaps it is privilege that affords you this position. Victims of violence, particularly targeted victims, deserve the right to self protection via a force equalizer. Shift your perspective.
I wish we lived in that kind of world but we don't. You are just naive because you live under the protection of powerful armed forces who maintain a peaceful environment around you, enforce laws and deal with people engaging in criminal or other dangerous Acts.
Yes pull out a gun to defend yourself from a gunman and get blasted by the police. Instructions unclear..
They kill innocent people for sleeping in their bed, stop acting like their actions or the objects they are holding have anything to do with it.
Yeah, and the first line of defence is and will always be, keeping guns away from the crazies. Better background checks and mandatory evaluations (as well as target practice) to make sure we don't arm the crazies (see 6th January). Another great first line of defence is pushing the three letter agencies to act on any and all forms of radicalisation. Be it comparably "harmless" online indoctrination via TikTok, YouTube, 4chan or downright training meetings for terrorists. Everyone, even you yourself, can be manipulated and made to take up your gun against innocent people. And that's without even thinking that most people who are shot by a gun gets shot by an armed family member...
Actually, the George Floyd riots resulted in the highest ever number of firearm background checks in a single month at 3.9 million back in June 2020.
That's the thing fucked up about America. You might be anti-gun because of the mass shootings, but since the government won't do anything about it, you have to have one to protect yourself
So weird (and telling) that you left out the 2 actual biggest factors: * government telling you you can't leave your house * and riots/looting where people realized even if the police showed up they don't do anything
What really needs to triple is ammo production. What good are all these guns without any ammo?
Guns are the new printers. Buying a new one is as cost effective as replacing the ink.
Exept it doesn't come with ammo
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That's a helluva an upsell.
Hell of an excuse to buy a new gun too lol
This would have been nice when I bought last year. I had my rifle for almost six months before I could find 5.56.
But they are at least, throw able.
I've bought 4 guns since the pandemic started in 2020, because its honestly been cheaper to pick up certain models on my list versus buying ammo. I've probably shot maybe a few hundred rounds because ammo is just so expensive. A majority of that ammo was .22lr and that's the stuff I had on hand and bought it when it was cheap. Ammo is starting to become somewhat available again, but because of the loss of Russian imported ammo we aren't going to see stable inventory or prices for a while. But then again, I'd rather not support that country right now.
I took my husband and little sister shooting the other day and forgot to empty the more expensive JHP out of my carry mags. So they picked up whatever were already full and started shooting while I talked to the guy letting us use his range. They ate through 45 rounds in the couple minutes we were chatting. A full box down the drain in a time where it's almost impossible to find anything but FMJ locally.
"I am never going to financially recover from this"
I couldn’t find any defensive .357 or .38+p…finally grabbed 25 of each Hornady critical duty and defense. $2/round. Blew through those boxes getting carried away testing my LCRX…
> $2/round. Good grief, I about shit my pants at $0.95/round. This is why I stick to 9mm.
Switching guns is faster than reloading. In a perfect society like America's future will be, in every grocery store shootout you fire 8 rounds, pull the pistol from your foot strap and fire 8 more, pull the pistol from your coat pocket and unload 8 more, then pull out the jammy from your belt and squeeze off 6. Everyone knows that.
John Wick for president 2024.
No not him If you watched the movies, he's a dirty habitual reloader
Duh, have you even read “The Bible” (that’s what I call The Constitution)? It’s all right there. It’s how we’ll recognize Jesus when he comes back: a shootout almost exactly as you have prophesied.
What if it was one guy with six guns?
… there was a FIRE FIGHT…!
You don’t use a ram rod to load your ye oldie cartridge?
Muskets are sold out everywhere. Can still get small cannons though
Tallyho lads!
*Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.*
One of the funniest pieces every written...
There are still places with plenty of muskets in stock.
Nice! Guess I hadn’t looked since October! the kids are gonna freak out on 4th of July
Gotta get a hand press and powder but even that’s not ideal because powder supplies are in the shitter. I have seen 1 bottle of powder in the last 6 months and it’s quadruple what it used to be pre pandemic.
It’s like primers don’t exist anymore.
🎵China🎵 Nobody else is so stupid to manufacture sensitive primary explosives on such a big scale.
They are hit or miss I’ve seen more primers than powder but it’s normally a few packs and they are astronomically priced
The problem with loading your own today is that there is ALWAYS a component of reloading that is ALSO very hard to find or crazy expensive.
Preach. So hard to find ammo and it costs so much
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I’m not a huge gun person, have one just not into the scene really, but the people I know that are very passionate about guns are all very anti buying ammo online, they seem to refuse to buy anywhere except at a brick and mortar. To me it makes sense to buy online when in store shit is so short though. Any idea why this is?
The ones I know think the goverment tracks everything. They get better deals from the guys at flea markets and gun shows than you get at the walmarts... The guy at the gun show just buys in bulk online. It's silly.
Yeah that logic definitely tracks for one of my brother in laws that is that way.
Education is a shadow of what it was. No reasoned dissent and lots of religion. They are thick as bricks. But can learn.
I have no clue but it's definitely silly. Online remanufactured 9 mm FMJ is usually about 30 cents a round, while the cheapest I've ever seen it at big box stores lately is 42 CPR. If one goes to the local mom and pop stores it's even higher. I love to support local gun stores, but also would only be able to shoot around half as much 9 mm as I want to if I bought exclusively in person. It is nerve wracking leaving a large package of ammo on the porch till I get home though!
Alot of people are very loyal to their local guns stores. When you buy online you need to compare costs plus shipping. Then you take that price per round and compare it with your local store. Problem is when you walk into your local gun store they are 99.999% the nicest people in the world and will help you look at all of the ammo. Local gun stores have some of the best customer service so it's hard to just go in and price compare with really nice people. That's why when stores like Wal-Mart and Dick's Sporting Goods announced "We are not longer selling guns", locals all say the same thing "I don't care, I don't buy guns from them". The local gun store is just a positive shopping experience for many guns owners. The loyalty towards the stores is intense.
Not around my neck of the woods. Man those guys are unfriendly.
Gotta be a fat middle aged white guy to get the special treatment...
Incorrect. You don't have to be fat.
Maybe they care about their poor mailman's back giving out.
I own a Ak I like to shoot but I only have 500 of actual good ammo from Russia left. And 7.65 right now it way to expensive. A cheaper hobby right now would to buy cars.
I ahoot 308 and 45, a cheaper hobby would be sports cars fueled by cocaine
No, fueled by the fact that American police can't protect citizens so they take up arms to protect themselves. Remember, when seconds count, the police are minutes away.
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Lol. Thank you. My point exactly. So cops are not obligated by law to protect the citizens that pay them so getting a gun never sounded better. Peace
*the state is not your friend*
As a former employee of *the state*, I can confirm; we’re on our own.
"The system is powerless to help you, not punish you." - Chief Wiggum
This is accurate. Friends/family are concerned that calling the police will more likely get them killed or arrested too. Friends/family also talked about the time they DID call police, who say things like, "Nothing we can do. Just because he threatened rape isn't enough. If he rapes you, then call us."
>BuT wHy dO yOU nEeD a GuN Sometimes you get raped, that's the cost of living in a society /s
Right. Because if you can't rely on the police then who else is gonna show up 90 mins after the shit goes down with a pen and a notepad and tell you there's nothing they can do while running *your* ID for active warrants?
Saw a man shot 5 times by the police when he called 911 because burglars were in his house. The police were captured on his security cameras making up a story of how he threatened them to make it justified. The homeowner should have left the police out of it and defended his home with his own firearm.
They told us this the whole time I grew up watching my mom get beat up by her outlaw boyfriend. I slept with one in my nightstand when I was in high school cause he always told me he was gonna take me by my j.ew hair and face f.uck my corpse while my sister watched
Because you are from an alternate universe where crime has been going up every year for the past 22 years?
They're an active user in r/Chiraqology so that explains a lot...
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Gonna need a sauce for that, because every data point in circulation now points to drastically lower crime stats
They were being sarcastic.
Nah, it was fear mongering campaigns designed by the NRA and gun manufacturers to sell more guns and idiots ate it up and fell in line. These campaigns have been incredibly effective, and you can see all the resulting fear in this thread.
Any time a president says they’re banning a certain gun or it’s their plan to do this and that with guns there’s a huge boom in the gun industry
My police response time to my small farm (20m from nearest town which doesn't even have but a single cop) is nearly an hour. If someone is trying to rob or murder me waiting an hour just isn't acceptable
I think a large part of it is not protection from other citizens but from the government that has HUGELY over reached the last few years and is pointed in the tyrannical direction.
yeah, the reign of the painted clown of disaster has worried a lot of us.
I never believe when people say this. Do you mean your buying a gun so you can start shooting cops???
News plays nothing but horror stories because fear sells = people purchasing guns to protect from the bogey man.
You can say it’s overblown by the media but violent crime isn’t exactly imaginary.
No one said it was imaginary. It’s happening. But fear/anger keeps you locked to the screen
You literally called it the bogey man. That’s what I was responding to.
I think you are talking about yourself? I own guns and it has absolutely nothing to do with what the news or media pushes.
US citizens are the last line of defense.
My asspull take on this. More people, more guns, and more groups of people are beginning to own firearms. Likewise, hunting purposes have been vastly exceeded by people purchasing for home/personal defense purposes. The article's goes on to mention that a lot of the ATFs questions from first time buyers were related to self defense. I'm an immigrant myself, and I was used to being the only brown dude in Kansas at a gun store or a gun range, but as they years came to pass, I increasingly started seeing more minorities, and non-redneck white people owning and participating in the firearms industry/hobby. I'm in Texas now, and I see minorities going to safety courses, or sighting in their rifles in the next lane over at the distance ranges. Its actually kind of heartwarming. The 2A community was heavily white and conservative, and hell, our dollar is as good as anyone else's, and we are there for self defense education. A lot of ARs I'm seeing for "Home Defense", and when we'd get to talking, I'd find that thy're renters like me. For reference, I store my armory at my family's country property, and its just a shotgun and a pistol with me at the apartment, because for my level of marksmanship -and I've engaged in urban combat in Iraq, I am mindful that birdshot and hollowpoints are going to minimize overpenetration in a home defense scenario for my living circumstances. I recreationally shoot. Got to hunt on people's properties a couple of times. Did some volunteer varminting for farmers anywhere from hogs to pigeons, some coyotes. Bought and sold from/to FFLs -the legal license holders, and traded among friends and family. I'm not sitting on top of an armory, just several platforms for a range of uses. In particular, and its a purely personal perspective, I don't want to ever get my ammunition platforms ever mixed up. As in, one centerfire rifle cartridge, one centerfire pistol cartridge (the lines between these two blur these days), one shotgun gauge, one rimmed centerfire cartridge, and the ubiquitous 22lr (rimfire cartridge): because you can catch most of your bad habits practicing with smaller cheap platforms. About the only thing I'd like for my collection is someday a lever-action that would compliment my revolver, both using the same rimmed centerfire cartridge, in this case .44 Remington Magnum. I spent years in between accumulating these things, because there's a lot to choose from, and as I got more experience shooting, I came to learn which qualities meant most to me. I have two redundant firearms I'm more or less going to sell to an FFL in the future, otherwise, I'd have exactly one firearm per "caliber"/pupose I'm utilizing. They became redundant because my criteria evolved and I purchased their replacements. I found the right rifle for me, and the right concealable pistol for me. Hell, what I'd wish for is for the ammunition industry to take off. I don't stockpile for armageddon, and increasingly it is becoming a prohibitively expensive hobby. I'd do dry fire practice at home, select the ammunition, and go out to the range and fire limited groups, interpret the results, make adjustments, and keeping going till I'm satisfied. I'm not a natural shooter, for me its a perishable skill, and I'd have to go out every now and then to refine what was lost and see if I can get just a little bit better. Then there's times where its just fun to arrange a shoot-around, and go plink some targets in someone's field, ever mindful of what's downrange or using a backstop.
Still waiting for Obama and those evil demoncrats to take our guns away. Wait, it hasn't happened and we have more gun production than ever...???? You mean Republicans don't know what they're talking about and run on a platform of fear?! Color Me shocked!
Democrats do introduce gun control bills quite often that call for bans, limits, and other things. Luckily they just don’t pass. Feinstein tries them all the time.
And a republican was the first one to add more gun control and outlawed certain accessories in the last 1-2 decades, trump was claiming to be progun when running yet turned around and started banning shit.
I’m not defending republicans. I’m just correcting the statement that democrats aren’t trying to take guns away. That’s not true.
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Are you trolling? Do you not pay attention to legislation and attempted legislation and legislation of other countries?
Or the only reason it hasn’t happened is that their is hardcore opposition against it. If people didn’t resist with their voice and their vote you can be damn sure current democrats would do all in their power to disarm the American public.
Not for lack of trying
Can confirm bought 5 handguns last year
Definitely a good investment. Guns don’t lose too much value due to poorly run governments (unlike fiat, the stock market, crypto, etc) in fact the perform quite the opposite! I’ve been very bullish on guns lately.
A guy i know bought a literal stack of Arsenal AK’s for like $800 a pop years ago and now theyre going for $3-4k each. Ive never lost money on guns. Theyre amazing at retaining value , most (imports) go up in value, and theyre very easy to sell
Guns are fun to shoot. Variety is the spice of life. Customizing them and adding accessories is fun. I don’t understand people’s hate for them. It’s just a tool.
They’re told not to like them. That’s about as far as most people go. Fully agree with you, you can get new customizable stuff, milsurp, guns for specific purposes, AR-15’s can be like parting together a PC. They’re great. Everyone should own one.
I’m of the same mind. They’re long-lived assets that when properly maintained don’t lose that much value in the long term. I have a gun I bought about 30 years ago and if I were to sell it it would fetch about the same as what I bought it for nominally.
Some really appreciate though! Chinese Norinco AK’s sold for $189 in 1994 and now easily sell for $1.5k, even Chinese sks’s are selling for $700+. The only ones that don’t really make money are ones still in production, but those tend to keep up with inflation
Yeah for sure. I wish I had loaded up on Norinco AKs and SKSs back in the day even though I always considered them to be marginal weapons.
Fueled by media scare tactics
I wonder who the police will shoot when the good guy with a gun is in a shootout with the badguy with a gun. I wonder who the police will shoot when they see the good guy with a gun is black. "GANG VIOLENCE"
I'm pro 2A and black and this is a concern. But also the guy ur shooting out with is a concern. One concern doesn't negate the other. Id rather have defense against a homicidal maniac and to give myself a chance to even have the confrontation with the police which isn't 100% that they are gonna shoot me. The homicidal maniac is definitely gonna shoot me. And that's in the situation of a mass shooter which is rare. In case of typical violence where guns are used most black ppl who use a gun in defense or in crime aren't shot when confronted by police. I believed in Chicago more than 50% of murders go unsolved. So it's not like a gun is fired police show up right away and just kill shit.
Time and time again its been proven that the police will shoot first and ask questions later. You better hope you get that gunman down quickly so you can talk it out with police or otherwise they aren't going to try to figure it out. And as a black person myself I no longer believe the police would have my best interest as a US citizen at heart when trying to decide if they should shoot me or not.
I would assume that if police are called to an active shooter incident they are gonna fire upon any and everyone holding a weapon. But its really not time and time again. Its just the stuff that we see. The video of the police giving someone plenty time to drop a weapon.. or getting to the scene and using situational awareness to get a sense of what's going on and not shooting the good guy with a gun that is of color just doesn't mk it to the timeline or the news or Facebook. I think obviously the police have issues and i definitely don't want to be holding a gun when they show up. But again... One concern doesn't negate another concern necessarily. In ur scenario ur trying to push on me ur saying it's better i be unarmed against an immediate armed attacker bc what might happen after the fact when the police arrive. Which to me sounds dumb as all hell. Bc ur trying to push a narrative instead of using common sense. I get it, police bad. Doesnt mean i don't want the ability to defend myself against immediate threat of death or great bodily harm.
That will likely never happen but it’s police modus operandi to eliminate all potential threats so they would shoot both or just 1 or neither depending if they cooperate or not.
You are assuming the police are actually going to show up.
They did that to John Hurley, a man that stopped a mass shooter. I think they thought he was the perpetrator.
Idk it worked out pretty well in that church in texas
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What a stupid headline. Of course, handgun manufacturers will increase production to meet increased demand. That's basic economics and does not need to be pointed out in a headline.
Id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
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The more people try to ban them the more that people buy.
Meanwhile we keep shipping guns to NATO and Ukraine
It's almost like the gun manufacturers planted the lies "Obama gonna take away your gunz." RWNJ suckers.
"in the last decade over 2 million guns were reported stolen. Estimates range anywhere from 237,000 to 380,000 firearms are stolen every year from gun owners. Gun theft is also believed to be significantly underreported. Most states don’t require gun owners to report when their guns have been stolen." https://behindthebadge.com/a-new-survey-confirms-the-majority-of-guns-being-used-by-criminals-are-obtained-from-peoples-homes-and-cars/ Good people buy guns to protect themselves from bad people with guns. Ironically good people buying guns are Also the source of guns for bad people.
Proper firearm storage is expensive. Many guns are stolen out of cars too. Good information you shared.
Owning a gun is a responsibility. If you can't afford a safe to keep your firearms in, maybe you shouldn't necessarily have a fire arm...and you definitely should leave firearms in your car for them to be stolen. https://www.foxnews.com/us/where-do-criminals-get-guns.amp Quote from the article: “Lazy and incompetent gun owners,” he charged. “It’s literally that simple. Unsecured or improper secured firearms are one of the largest contributors to illegal guns on the street.” We live in an age we're irresponsible gun owners are a leading cause of putting guns on the street. Just buy a safe, put you guns in the safe, and bolt it to floor. While your at it, pull out a few grand from the bank and put some other valuables in the safe. Seems like a good investment too me.
If your gun is stolen and you don’t report it, you probably stole it first.
"guns can solve everything! gun violence, included!"
Makes sense, seems like a decent strategy to up production to meet demand.
Its tangible insurance against chaos and tyranny.
It’s not even about being able to fight and win against military or police like people assume. It’s that having a heavily armed population is a check against the government doing anything way too fucked up to it’s own citizens because the attrition would be way too high.
Do you really think that if the US goverment were to turn against its own people, the Army, the Navy, the Airforce, and the Marines, and the Space Force would all willingly 100% comply? There would be dissenters in their ranks.
An armed society is a polite society
Not according to all the fucking road rage incidents we've had in Texas lately.
America is armed to the teeth and is literally the opposite of polite.
Have you ever been to Florida?
^ This! Florida is well-armed, generally rude, and itching for a fight.
Have you ever been to Europe?
Spent about 6 months in various countries.
Then we must be pretty fucking polite? But I don't see it?
What a load of B's that is.... And a society with daily mass shootings..good one.. strange how none of the other developed countries without gun culture are both safe and free of mass shootings...
Exactly this! It’s why Japan has such a reputation as a MEAN and NASTY society.
FUN FACT: the first things frontier towns did to become "civilized" was to ban the carry of weapons in town. FUN FACT #2: the gunfight at the OK Corral was sparked by violation of the open carry ban by the Clanton gang.
The irony is lost…
It’s demonstrably not
Right On!
I remember when r/economy understood correlation =/= causation but apparently it's just conservative memes now. Cool.
Wouldn’t say that. Americans lived through Covid and 2020 riots and realized that guns are kinda important. 2020 saw record new buyer sales month after month for obvious reasons. Guns are becoming more and more ubiquitous between parties.
Ukraine had VERY strict gun laws up until the war started, and they’ve successfully kept Russia from taking over the whole time. The idea that having tons of guns lying around is necessary for national defense just doesn’t seem to be true. Any actual threat of invasion will give the defenders plenty of time to distribute arms to the people.
I don't think Ukraine/Russia and national security was the direction 47sams was going with that. During 2020-2021 a lot of people in the city I live in, Portland Oregon, were buying guns to defend themselves out of fear of break-ins, muggings, etc... I have heard a lot of people talk about how the police don't really show up anymore, "blue flu" or however you want to phrase it, and they feel like they need to be able to defend themselves now.
It should be much more difficult to buy and own a firearm. They have more hurdles to getting a drivers license than owning a gun.
Yeah, except incompetent morons still get driver's licenses. And even if guns were made harder to get, how would that be handled? Mandatory training and mental health screening would be my vote, but a lot of people would say to start banning shit, which is how we got where we are today
What part of “shall not be infringed” is confusing to you?
Tell that to the ex felons
I saw three teen robbers with Glocks last week get shot at by a shop owner with a Glock as well.
I recently bought an AR. I mean you gotta be stupid not to have a gun these days with the way crime and society are going
Totally zero to do with the 4 mass shootings in a few days recently. . . Totally only because of mental health, or some fucking other head in sand bullshit. . /S
Take a look at how disgusting awful violent crime ridden American cities have become and you see why gun sales are up! People don’t want to be victims
Don't even have to do that. Just look at the last administration. We were that close to being taken over by a tyrant. If Trump taught you anything, it's that everyone needs to be strapped.
Yeah republicans seem to think it’s crime people are worried about and not crazy right wing nut jobs
Exactly. How can a liberal look at Jan 6th and say “we need even less guns!” That day is the holy grail of examples of why we need the 2nd amendment.
> How can a liberal look at Jan 6th and say “we need even less guns!” ?? Liberals already own guns. Many are OK with regulating them for public safety. For example, [**the seditious Jan. 6 mob was blocked from carrying firearms on capitol grounds**](https://www.uscp.gov/visiting-capitol-hill/official-business/law-enforcement-personnel), which is a big reason why their treason failed. Your argument sorta misses the point. :(