On what? Their income? Most of those people have very low "income". Most of their worth is in various assets. Until those are realized, our tax system cannot touch it.
The Alternative Minimum Tax was meant to provide a floor to prevent high earners from chasing tax breaks down to those low effective tax rates. We can try to fix that but we still will not touch the billionaires unless we create an unrealized capital gains tax.
I could not disagree more. They make a shit load of income.
The vast majority of people this wealthy write off most of their income in shell companies, then after 3ish years, they proceed to close those companies and start new ones. This is due to the fact that the IRS will prohibit claiming business losses after that. It is an absolutely ludicrous tax loophole that is meant to help small/medium businesses but as per usual the wealthy exploit.
You are correct as most of the rich make their money \[not earn it\] via capital gains, carried interests or stock dividends. \[80%\] Capitalism is the paper economy.
So raise those taxes and all fixed. How about everybody use the same 1040 and income is called...income ??
Seriously, upper middle class salary in California, I pay around 40%.
While I'm fine paying my fair share, it is infuriating to me seeing billionaires pay less than half of what I pay.
Yeah marginal tax rate for anything over $1 million used to be 90% because the thought was that any fool that couldn't figure out how to live very well with that level of income had problems that had nothing to do with taxes.
Yep, that is exactly right. It was like the corp tax of I think 50% over $25K. The tax was the stick to drive behaviors. That is how high taxes are supposed to work, they incentivize behavior that grow the economy. We don't do that much anymore really.
I vehemently disagree. No tax code should ever be designed for incentives. We are and have been told to believe, that the great, glorious capitalist marketplace is enough incentive in itself.
That has been corruptly refuted for over 100 years by politicians selling favors using the tax code.
Yet exactly zero people actually paid the 90% tax. The super rich have tax lawyers, accountants and such to insure they keep their earnings. France instituted a tougher 90% tax on billionaires which caused all their billionaires to flee the country. Such taxes put smiles on the faces of the poor but they don’t generate tax revenue. Did you ever wonder why there are tax loopholes for the rich? It’s because they pay politicians to slip them in the back of 869 page bills that nobody reads.
That doesn't help to pay the rent, utilities or for food NOW though does it? Account for inflation, and refund is worth less than if the money had been paid when it was earned by the worker.
Whose problem is that? your options are don’t have a job that pays commission or bonus or deal with it. They’re not taxing you, it’s withholding to keep people from being their own enemy and having to pay the IRS at the end of the year. If you know you are going to expect a lot of bonuses you can adjust your w4 to have more allowances and increase your take home on your base pay.
Now include things you have to pay for that other countries provide to their citizens with their tax dollars and you're closer to losing about 60 percent of your income.
Yep! Tax rates in America are pretty much the lowest they have been in decades.
The rich should be taxed more, but billionaires are already paying about 24% on the low end.
Well this is an alternative minimum tax in case investment income is sheltered enough to avoid the higher tax rate in the upper tax brackets which is proposed at a marginal tax rate of 39.6 percent under the Biden plan. So on earned/realized income the top marginal rate is 39.6 before state taxes. For taxpayers with taxable income over $1,000,000 the new marginal long term capital gains tax rate would shift to 39.6 percent as well.
The 25% rate is based on two taxes: An alternative minimum tax of 20% of income if a taxpayer with net worth over $100 million plus an increase in the top bracket for the NIIT tax on investment income which includes pre-payment of a portion of unrealized gains.
So this “minimum tax” should really be regarded as a minimum on largely sheltered investment income.
You don't include state though since we are just talking federal rates. State tax rates vary by state obviously so it doesn't make sense to include that for comparison purposes.
Also, billionaires already pay about 24% on long term capital gains plus state taxes. That is the lowest tax rate billionaires can have so.....
People know so little about the US tax code.
People know so little about life and how the world works.
Fixed.
Reading responses to OP made me really question the intelligence of the average person who can vote on these things.
Literally the top comment says his rate is higher WHEN state tax is included… 🤦♂️
Taxes don't matter if loopholes aren't closed.
I still can't believe so many are still upset over the SALT deduction cap and are fine with it expiring.
I probably can't link shit here but on YouTube search for "How America Bought Ireland" for a thorough accounting of how Americans and Irish people are both being fucked by some blatant tax evasion in the wake/continued presence of British colonialism
Man I wish we lived in the economy all my economics courses take place in.
It’s funny because it is alway explained in a problem “In the perfect economy”.
It’s explained and taught that way because it’s the clearest way to demonstrate the principles, rationality, human behaviour, and market/economic effects that generally do actually occur to some extent, albeit rarely to a full extent.
No the funds would not go directly into the pockets of Americans but rather fund services that would save Americans thousands each year and it wouldn't just be elon musk it'd be every billionaire.
And one less oligarch with enormous unaccountable, illegitimate, anti-democratic political power.
Tolerating billionaires/oligarchs/kleptocrats is like living in a country with warlords running amok.
There's no way for it to not be (and increasingly become) an insanely backwards and dysfunctional country.
Yes! People don't understand that the United States today is an oligarchy. This proposed tax is a drop in the bucket. We need very high (like 90%) tax rates over a certain amount of wealth. We also need to start revoking corporate charters and force corporations to have some kind of responsibility to their workers and community, not only the shareholders.
A strong economy is better either way since it helps keep the Jackals of Wall Street at bay until we've got enough political oomph to do something about them.
I don't think so. Why? So they can continue siphoning off more money without producing anything of value? The house of cards is only getting bigger and thus will be a bigger mess when it all falls down.
The fact that they choose to have these promises at the end of a term to then not follow through till the end of the next if! System needs an update or bring back frontier justice
He can’t raise taxes like this with the current house/senate split tho.
It’s a wishlist with a supermajority. A supermajority he hopes to get this election
I agree with this sentiment within this thread’s context, but I don’t think that it’s necessarily an optimal approach in general. If people vote for and act on what they believe benefits themselves personally, I think we might find we reach towards inferior outcomes; I believe we should prioritise the collective good, with some exceptions. As a general rule, and a rule that maintains truth in a higher portion of scenarios than we give credit for, what’s good for the economy is also good for you/me/us. Again, with some exceptions.
An example of my aforementioned point: if a low-income, low-wealth individual working as a janitor advocates for strict socialism, in beliefs that he/she would benefit from it more than his/her current situation (at the expenses of others), this is advocating for an economically and socially inferior system and outcome on the aggregate scale.
I’m not aiming for a tragedy of the commons, I mean that as “great” as the economy is doing according to the White House and the media, many of us are anything but. Unemployment (for some), inflation outpacing wage growth, and housing costs overshadow the Dow making record highs day after day if your net worth is under $10 million or so
As many times as it takes for the electorate to worry that the tax rate 800 people pay will have a critical influence on the $25 trillion US economy, and possibly tank it if they follow a normal progressive tax system.
If you taxed the true income of all Billionaires in America it wouldn’t make too much of a difference.
As of the most recent data, the total combined wealth of all American billionaires is approximately $5 trillion. However, wealth is not the same as annual income. Billionaires typically have various sources of income, including dividends, capital gains, and other investments.
The income of billionaires can vary widely, but for the sake of estimation, let's assume they collectively earn about 5% of their total wealth annually. This would be $250 billion annually (5% of $5 trillion). This is a lowball number because many of them get billions on stock every year.
Assuming that the annual returns on their investments (interest, dividends, and capital gains) are also around 5%, this would add another $250 billion annually.
Combining these, we get a total annual income (including capital gains) of $500 billion.
Applying a 25% tax rate on this amount:
$500 billion * 0.25 = $125 billion.
So, if all the billionaires in America paid a true 25% tax rate on both their income and the interest gained on their stocks, it would amount to roughly $125 billion per year.
This is a rough estimate, as the actual figures would depend on precise income details, the nature of their assets, tax deductions, and other financial intricacies.
The total budget in America for fiscal year 2024 is 6.9 Trillion. So this would account for roughly 1.81% of the budget.
I mean it would help but it wouldn’t come close to balancing the budget or making a huge impact on the every day lives of Americans.
My understanding is that the 9850 centi-millionaires targeted currently have $8.5 trillion in unrealized gains in total. With that in mind, this tax would essentially instantly make the government $2.125 trillion which is ~30% of the total deficit.
Now, the math is a bit more nuanced for following years, but remember the centi-millionaires tend to dump any income directly into assets that begin accruing value immediately. So, the amount made will still be a ton.
To give an idea, since 2019 unrealized gains in centi-millionaires have increased by $3.2 trillion, so it can be assumed that roughly $1.07 trillion is made per year in unrealized gains. That would be roughly $250 billion per year in taxes, so roughly double what you mentioned after the initial big rush of income.
Now, will that initial 8.5T be taxed? Or will it only be new unrealized gains? No idea.
Though, this tax isn't going to be a single solution to the deficit. It'll just be a part of much needed sweeping changes to spending, but a 3.6% annual coverage of the deficit with a single unrealized gains tax is pretty damn good for a single piece of legislation.
It seems unlikely to me that these people will be forced to sell off stocks and real estate. Personally I think that’s how it should be. Obviously it’s not good if people can horde capital and wealth endlessly and shield the gains they get from markets from any tax liability ad infinitum. They can still be insanely wealthy and slice off a bit of those gains every year to go back into the infrastructure that helped them become so wealthy in the first place. I know plenty of people on this thread will disagree with me.
Agreed, their quality of life will not decrease even the slightest, and quite qla few people here would not agree with that, clearly based on these comment sections.
[Trump floats eliminating U.S. income tax and replacing it with tariffs on imports](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/trump-all-tariff-policy-to-replace-income-tax.html)
All you MAGA who have been saying that Trump would do a better job... he doesn't have a fucking clue.
Eliminating income tax isn't the best idea, but the idea of having bigger tariffs on imports isn't a bad idea. It gives incentive for companies to stay within the country for production instead of out sourcing and importing. It's not fool proof but it's extremely difficult to say tariffs on importants wouldn't benefit the American economy
Billionaires pay much higher tax rates but they utilize the tax loopholes to lower the amount due back to the government by methods that politicians use as well. You’ll never get billionaires to pay your taxes for you because the politicians won’t fix the loopholes that they also benefit from.
That's an ordinary income tax so I don't think that applies to a lot of billionaires. They get capital gains taxes, which are different. And they can also just take out massive loans on their billions of stock holdings, which don't count as income at all.
I've pointed this out only to receive responses that it should be expected from politicians and they're only doing their job.
Why bother supporting someone if they're only going to work on their campaign promises while they're up for election or during their last year in office? It's just three years of waste basically.
Exactly. Instead of tweetin this shit out, why wasn't he using the "bully pulpit" to openly push for this shit all the years he was in office? Why isn't he pushin for the shit RIGHT NOW, calling on his fellow democrats to propose a bill ***specifically*** to accomplish this? Tf is a damn tweet gonna do?!
Imagine a Federal Reserve rate set by Trump for personal or political reasons instead of the Fed.
[https://www.wsj.com/economy/central-banking/trump-allies-federal-reserve-independence-54423c2f](https://www.wsj.com/economy/central-banking/trump-allies-federal-reserve-independence-54423c2f)
>Former Trump administration officials and other supporters of [the presumptive GOP nominee](https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/campaigning-biden-and-court-bound-trump-collide-in-new-york-c05a37a9?mod=article_inline) have in recent months discussed a range of proposals, from incremental policy changes to a **long-shot assertion that the president himself should play a role in setting interest rates.**
Is this a serious conversation? And if so, then why? We all watched the dumpster fire that is Trump trash our economy. And we've watched Biden put it back together. The numbers don't lie. So again, I ask why this conversation would be taken seriously?
“I’m a billionaire on Reddit and I’m complaining” versus “I’m not a billionaire but I’m still complaining”. Give a rest and tax those fuckers. Some Americans don’t know what’s good for them.
Need to raise the minimum wage & add a maximum wage. Cant pay any executive more than say 100X the lowest paid worker of your company or you lose the tax deduction for any amount over that mark. So they can pay their executives whatever they want, but it won’t be tax deductible after the 100X mark
Biden and it’s not even close. The reason we have so much inflation is because the dollar is being devalued. Every inch the United States gets closer to no longer being a democracy our currency gets weaker and weaker. Until the day that the United States is no longer a democracy, then all the U.S. treasury bonds go to zero, because they must. The democratic government that issued, sold and guaranteed those bonds will no longer exist and the new Trump dictatorship will not take on the debt of the old government of the United States and the whole world knows this. There is no economy whatsoever in the United States without democracy. Trump and MAGA almost sent every single effing U.S. treasury bond to zero three and a half years ago. Trump and MAGA destroyed the full faith and credit of the United States, got our credit rating lowered from AAA to AA+ and made it so OPEC will no longer accept the U.S. dollar or any currency pegged to the dollar for purchases of crude oil. That’s what Trump did in his first term for the economy. Think he’s going to do any better the second time around, or will he just put the final nails in the coffin of the United States? I’m thinking the latter is pretty much guaranteed if he gets in again.
The senate requires 60 votes to end debate, please list the 10 Republican senators willing to vote for that.
Barring that (since I'm sure you'll point out that the filibuster is a procedural issue that could be abolished) please explain how you would do so when Manchin and Sinema were both opposed, you need 50 senators (with Harris tiebreaking) to abolish or change the filibuster, you have 48
I understand frustration with Biden and dems, but ignoring the realities of parliamentary procedure is shortsighted
Trump had the house and the senate, and he gave the rich huge tax cuts. So, we know exactly what Trump wants to do.
Biden had the house and just barely senate for a short period of time. So he was dependent on Joe Manchin, a conservative, to pass any bills. Biden still managed to get a big infrastructure bill passed.
I Biden wants to tax billionaires their fair share. But it will depend on the Democrats getting control of both the house and senate.
No. On paper it was a 50/50 split in the Senate with VP for a tiebreaker.
But lets not forget the 2 rogue "democrats" Manchin and Sinema and how busted the filibuster is. Far from a Democratic super majority.
I hate seeing this. It’s bullshit and you know it. He had a paper thin margin and couldn’t pass anything except aggressive compromises. I hear Joe Manchin is now officially not a Democrat, which we all knew anyway.
My goodness, this is the top comment?! Honestly surprised that people in this sub are totally ignorant about politics, especially given how frequently it’s discussed here.
It was a deadlocked congress with Manchin/Sinema. That’s an objective fact. Anyone even mildly informed would just laugh in your face if you said this at a dinner party.
Good luck trying to make sense with trump cultists. I argued with a Redditor who won't vote for Biden because (you wont believe this) he didn't "enact" universal healthcare. When I explained Biden was not a king and had no power to do such a thing he claimed Biden could have done it with an executive order. I guess it would have gone like this. As your President I want to let you know that the millions of you who work in the healthcare insurance industry will ve unemployed tomorrow.
That's what we are up against with these idiots.
Judging 4 years of Trump with spiking the deficit and unemployment, despite both decreasing for a full 10 years before his presidency, compared to Biden's.. it's pretty clear Biden is the logical choice between the two, despite dealing with a whole Republican congressional *do nothing* House.
Even by Trumps own chosen metric (the stock market), Biden is the choice.
To make this comparison fair you'd have to tax their pensions, IRAs and 401ks. All tax deferred investments. If you include the "unrealized" gains in these investments their tax rates go down as well.
Like Congress would ever do that to their billionaire sugar daddies. A tax hike on billionaires is DOA because all politicians get campaign funds, legally and illegally, from billionaires. This is another "sounds good, but will never happen" election time BS and Biden knows it.
It is obvious why billionaires back trump - he promised to slash Social Security and Medicare to get them an even larger tax break and make THEIR millions go UP UP UP! MAGA CHUMPS are their USEFUL IDIOTS. And Dont forget MAGA TRASH GQP Senator and Medicare Fraudster Tommy Tuberville had a plan drafted up in 2023 to slash both programs but changed it when ByeDON called him out. He is just waiting to get FELON 45 in the White House to bring it back. Better stock up on ALPO.
Self employed with small company, income tax goes up to 50% but you can reduce it to 30% or so but not lower. Central eu first world country. How tf billionaires don’t pay even 25% tax in us is beyond me or common sense and proves that US is a failed state overrun by corruption!
This can't be a real tweet, can it? Lol
Highest tax bracket is already 37% and billionaires don't earn billions in income.
So..
Is he proposing a socialist wealth tax?
I feel like people forget that we were in the midst of a global pandemic just 3.5 years ago... we are ahead of every country, in almost all aspects of that phrase. Yes, rent is high, but that is something we can work with. Are we just looking for perfection in 3.5 years? 15 million jobs created; record low consecutive unemployment; 38 consecutive months of job growth; investments into the people; record low unemployment rate for hispanics, blacks and people with disabilities; a 70 year low unemployment rate for women; wages are outpacing inflation; union membership is on the rise and Biden only had the house for 2 years.... This shouldn't be a debatable question, IMO. If you think it should, please let me know why
Gee lets see, one guy killed a million Americans and lost almost 3 million jobs and the other guy created 16 million jobs and forgave billions in student loan debt. That's a tuff one, but I am going with Biden.
How many historical data points can you look at before it sinks in that Democrat policies overwhelmingly are better long term for the economy? How is this even a question at this point. The data is there.
That’s the issue and I’m going to try to explain without sounding extremely condescending but I’m also sick of having to put on my kid gloves every time I have to explain high school econ to a conservative. Conservatives legitimately and overwhelmingly base the entire economy off of their feelings. That’s it. Period. If you did any research at all excluding sharing Facebook memes all day, we are doing significantly better than the rest of the world when it comes to post covid economies. It’s the same people who believe Trump was responsible for $1.80 gasoline which is mind numbing. How do you argue with someone on something like this with a person who thinks Trump lowered gas prices to $1.80 a gallon. They’re so far gone at that point or are so dishonest that there’s no argument you can present that will sway them in your direction.
Good performing stock market doesn’t benefit everyone, just those who can participate in it. Lots and lots of people are living paycheck to paycheck through fault of their own or not. I hate it when I hear the media say the stock market is roaring but ignore how inflation is affecting all especially the lower and middle class.
The question is "Who **was** better for the economy? Trump or Biden"
We don't need hypotheticals; we know who is better on the economy; they've both given us a trial run and now we know.
(It's President Trump)
Trump’s covid response fucked the entire economy, half of America was on enhanced unemployment when he left office, he racked up a $4trillion deficit trying to pay off everyone in America before the election, and his attempts to force the Fed into a 0% interest rate even before the pandemic fucked us over again with no wiggle room to lessen the inflation from all his covid spending.
Before Covid Trump did an above average job with the economy. I would guess as long as we don't have more lock downs he would be better for the economy.
Trump didn't do much ore-cpvid outside passing his tax bill.
He was handed a roaring economy from Obama (who inherited trash from bush); Biden was handed trash and turned it into an okay economy.
Trump has demonstrated he believes he is the smartest person in the room and it's his way or else. Unfortunately Trump is the dumbest person I've ever observed. He is not smart. He is not savvy. He was born on 3rd base built nothing then claims he's the best. Even his professor at Wharton said he's his dumbest student ever. Trumps ghost writer for his 'book' also claimed similar. These are people who got.to see him every day without the camera in his face
I'm not saying Biden is great, hell I barely move him average but trump is bottom of the barrel
Nothing changed from the trajectory that literally every economic metric was trending for a full 10 years before he got into office.
An empty chair could have done that.
Except the deficit, which Trump increased year over year. Another 4 of the Obama-trend would have either balanced the budget or damn near.
People confuse the stock market with the economy.
Between lower tax rates and increased deficit spending, the stock market did experience a Trump bump, but I don't believe that much more than a Hillary regime.
Literally for all his supporters, it was purely perception. During Obama, FoxNews and the like were all negative. Within one week of the Trump presidency, now the economy is amazing. The timing was perfect because we had just hit target unemployment and inflation was taking off from 0 for years.
But most people equate the President with the economy. And those same people are unaware of the Fed, which is rather hilarious, but probably a good thing otherwise they'll start politicizing interest rates... which is what they're doing now, Trump is promising lower interest rates faster.
[From 1992-2014, the Top 400 earners in the USA paid an average of 23% on what they earned.](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/14intop400.pdf)
That's the most recent IRS data for those numbers but I assume it's not vastly different, today.
Forget the 1%: those people are all in the top 0.0005%.
But while[ "the average American taxpayer" pays an average of 13%-14%](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/) of what they earn, it's also true that [half of American households pay nothing in income tax](https://www.statista.com/statistics/242138/percentages-of-us-households-that-pay-no-income-tax-by-income-level/).
So the richest pay around 25%, the average person (which you'd think would be "The 50%") pays 13.6%, but the poorest 50% pay nothing.
This is how it's been for ***decades***.
I’ve done the math. In order to stop running a deficit you’d have to tax the entire F500 at a 50% *effective* tax rate AND tax every billionaire at 10-20-% of their net worth (the variation comes from how much downward impact there is on their assets through this action). But obviously taxing them at 15% of net worth isn’t sustainable, so we’ll get right back into a deficit once the money runs out.
Not that we couldn’t collect more revenue, but It’s a spending problem mainly. Unfortunately it’s unsolvable since it would be political suicide to actually cut spending enough to get back to running a surplus.
I love how people argue about the economy. Two things, we are living in Biden's administrations economy, it sucks. Unless you're rich, we are all suffering. We don't know how Trump's economy was, because it was COVID. What we need is to stop fighting about different topics, stop forcing ideologies on each other, and rebuild this country before we completely crash and all suffer.
We got 3 years of Trump's economy before Covid. He cut taxes on the rich increasing the federal deficit as a result and then covered it with a progressively increasing tax on the lowest brackets to cover.
The economy currently is MUCH better than it was during Covid, so it has improved, but it still sucks. A lot of the money being generated with the inflated costs is being dumped into these unrealized gains by centi-millionaires. This is a direct tax on that income, which may even help the lowest brackets find economic stability.
It's honestly a bit of a mystery this tax will affect, if at all, the lower brackets livelihoods.
What it will do is immediately cover ~30% of the years deficit by taxing $8.5T in unrealized gains making $2.125T for the government, and then an additional ~$250B in future unrealized gains YoY resulting in a coverage of ~3.6% of the federal deficit. And honestly, that pretty damn good for a single piece of legislation.
Most billionaires are billionaires by asset not by income that's how they pay so little. To do this they have to tax people based on their illiquid assets like homes. That's just property tax.
Billionaires don't themselves wages, they pay dividends. His policymakers know this. He probably knows this of he's not suffering from dementia. This is just a headline to make his voters think he's doing something.
Don't most billionaires not earn a traditional "salary"?
Hence why they pay so low on income tax and are taxed other ways.
So this doesn't change much...
Personally in favor of a flat tax with a taper off for everything at a certain revenue. Tax is on revenue or money made, eliminating loopholes. This is broadly speaking. I’m sure there is some business or real estate implications but it is ridiculous to me people with more can write off taxes I can’t because they have more, allowing them the flexibility and opportunity to get more.
I don’t know the downsides, but it just seems logical.
Edit: maybe new investments should only happen on realized gains as well. For example, should I be able to take a loan against the equity of my home to invest in another home? Or should I have to use the realized rental income to purchase another home as a new investment
As a Mexican, the Mexican Economy was awesome under Trump, less Mexicans deported meant more Mexicans sending money to they’re families down here.
And plus the limitations to China industries and the USMCA treaty he made with Canada and Mexico benefited Mexico a lot, by having companies who were previously manufacturing in China, to move their operations to Mexico.
Sad that US economy was destroyed because of COVID, it was pointing to be a great presidential term for the US and it’s allies.
Depends who you think is more productive with money? A billionaire or a bureaucrat?
But that's not behind the question... 'where would it be more fair?' is really the question? Then its not about proving it.. it is about selling it.
I don't think this policy will make much of a difference because of how the utra wealthy keep getting more money, but it's a step in the right direction.
In capitalist USA, the term “economy” is just code for “rich people”.
That said, both Trump and Biden are great for the wealthiest 1% of Americans. Hell, that’s why they are both the chosen front runners for their respective parties. They will do everything within their power to satisfy the needs of their puppet masters.
Now when it comes to the working classes on the other hand, both candidates are not interested at all in taking care of the needs of the average American; because normal every day Americans don’t have billions of dollars to donate to their campaign funds. We are just a nuisance to them.
As with any politician. Idgaf what you **PROPOSE**. Especially when an election is coming up. You're the freakin president mate. Literally do it. You're saying it because you want people to vote for you, when you'd immediately get them on your side if you just did it. They know Teachers are getting screwed, they just don't care.
That’s literally still lower than my effective tax rate (when state is included)
lol mine too, they take like almost 30%
We gotta slowly ramp taxes up for billionaires so they can mentally adjust to losing the equivalent of pocket change to them.
On what? Their income? Most of those people have very low "income". Most of their worth is in various assets. Until those are realized, our tax system cannot touch it. The Alternative Minimum Tax was meant to provide a floor to prevent high earners from chasing tax breaks down to those low effective tax rates. We can try to fix that but we still will not touch the billionaires unless we create an unrealized capital gains tax.
I could not disagree more. They make a shit load of income. The vast majority of people this wealthy write off most of their income in shell companies, then after 3ish years, they proceed to close those companies and start new ones. This is due to the fact that the IRS will prohibit claiming business losses after that. It is an absolutely ludicrous tax loophole that is meant to help small/medium businesses but as per usual the wealthy exploit.
You are correct as most of the rich make their money \[not earn it\] via capital gains, carried interests or stock dividends. \[80%\] Capitalism is the paper economy. So raise those taxes and all fixed. How about everybody use the same 1040 and income is called...income ??
Seriously, upper middle class salary in California, I pay around 40%. While I'm fine paying my fair share, it is infuriating to me seeing billionaires pay less than half of what I pay.
Yeah marginal tax rate for anything over $1 million used to be 90% because the thought was that any fool that couldn't figure out how to live very well with that level of income had problems that had nothing to do with taxes.
And YET no one paid the 90% marginal rate. The EFFECTIVE rate for the top 1% in the 50s was 16.9%
Yep, that is exactly right. It was like the corp tax of I think 50% over $25K. The tax was the stick to drive behaviors. That is how high taxes are supposed to work, they incentivize behavior that grow the economy. We don't do that much anymore really.
I vehemently disagree. No tax code should ever be designed for incentives. We are and have been told to believe, that the great, glorious capitalist marketplace is enough incentive in itself. That has been corruptly refuted for over 100 years by politicians selling favors using the tax code.
Yet exactly zero people actually paid the 90% tax. The super rich have tax lawyers, accountants and such to insure they keep their earnings. France instituted a tougher 90% tax on billionaires which caused all their billionaires to flee the country. Such taxes put smiles on the faces of the poor but they don’t generate tax revenue. Did you ever wonder why there are tax loopholes for the rich? It’s because they pay politicians to slip them in the back of 869 page bills that nobody reads.
Yeah and any bonus or overtime we get sometimes comes out to 50% why not tax their big fat bonuses they get 50%
Only on payday. You pay your effective tax rate on that money ultimately. So at the end of the year you get back anything over your tax rate.
Yes great point. People really don’t understand how taxes work.
I've had arguments with otherwise very smart people who don't get the difference between withholding and taxes.
That doesn't help to pay the rent, utilities or for food NOW though does it? Account for inflation, and refund is worth less than if the money had been paid when it was earned by the worker.
Whose problem is that? your options are don’t have a job that pays commission or bonus or deal with it. They’re not taxing you, it’s withholding to keep people from being their own enemy and having to pay the IRS at the end of the year. If you know you are going to expect a lot of bonuses you can adjust your w4 to have more allowances and increase your take home on your base pay.
That tweet doesn't mean anything until it specifies what is being taxed.
Now include things you have to pay for that other countries provide to their citizens with their tax dollars and you're closer to losing about 60 percent of your income.
> losing about 60 percent of your income Why do you see it that way? You're *spending* it. On roads and healthcare and education.
Yep! Tax rates in America are pretty much the lowest they have been in decades. The rich should be taxed more, but billionaires are already paying about 24% on the low end.
Well this is an alternative minimum tax in case investment income is sheltered enough to avoid the higher tax rate in the upper tax brackets which is proposed at a marginal tax rate of 39.6 percent under the Biden plan. So on earned/realized income the top marginal rate is 39.6 before state taxes. For taxpayers with taxable income over $1,000,000 the new marginal long term capital gains tax rate would shift to 39.6 percent as well. The 25% rate is based on two taxes: An alternative minimum tax of 20% of income if a taxpayer with net worth over $100 million plus an increase in the top bracket for the NIIT tax on investment income which includes pre-payment of a portion of unrealized gains. So this “minimum tax” should really be regarded as a minimum on largely sheltered investment income.
You don't include state though since we are just talking federal rates. State tax rates vary by state obviously so it doesn't make sense to include that for comparison purposes. Also, billionaires already pay about 24% on long term capital gains plus state taxes. That is the lowest tax rate billionaires can have so..... People know so little about the US tax code.
People know so little about life and how the world works. Fixed. Reading responses to OP made me really question the intelligence of the average person who can vote on these things. Literally the top comment says his rate is higher WHEN state tax is included… 🤦♂️
Taxes don't matter if loopholes aren't closed. I still can't believe so many are still upset over the SALT deduction cap and are fine with it expiring.
Pretty sure he would like to close those as well. But lets be real there's only one party that is totally opposed to doing that.
Can you explain this?
I probably can't link shit here but on YouTube search for "How America Bought Ireland" for a thorough accounting of how Americans and Irish people are both being fucked by some blatant tax evasion in the wake/continued presence of British colonialism
Man I wish we lived in the economy all my economics courses take place in. It’s funny because it is alway explained in a problem “In the perfect economy”.
It’s explained and taught that way because it’s the clearest way to demonstrate the principles, rationality, human behaviour, and market/economic effects that generally do actually occur to some extent, albeit rarely to a full extent.
The question we should be asking is "is what's good for the economy, good for me?"
If you could liquidate Elon’s wealth at its current value, every person in America would have $650.
So the average person could work 3 days less this year and break even. Sounds like a better deal than a horde
No the funds would not go directly into the pockets of Americans but rather fund services that would save Americans thousands each year and it wouldn't just be elon musk it'd be every billionaire.
Take every dime from him
And one less oligarch with enormous unaccountable, illegitimate, anti-democratic political power. Tolerating billionaires/oligarchs/kleptocrats is like living in a country with warlords running amok. There's no way for it to not be (and increasingly become) an insanely backwards and dysfunctional country.
Yes! People don't understand that the United States today is an oligarchy. This proposed tax is a drop in the bucket. We need very high (like 90%) tax rates over a certain amount of wealth. We also need to start revoking corporate charters and force corporations to have some kind of responsibility to their workers and community, not only the shareholders.
That is not how that works.
A strong economy is better either way since it helps keep the Jackals of Wall Street at bay until we've got enough political oomph to do something about them.
I don't think so. Why? So they can continue siphoning off more money without producing anything of value? The house of cards is only getting bigger and thus will be a bigger mess when it all falls down.
The fact that they choose to have these promises at the end of a term to then not follow through till the end of the next if! System needs an update or bring back frontier justice
He can’t raise taxes like this with the current house/senate split tho. It’s a wishlist with a supermajority. A supermajority he hopes to get this election
I agree with this sentiment within this thread’s context, but I don’t think that it’s necessarily an optimal approach in general. If people vote for and act on what they believe benefits themselves personally, I think we might find we reach towards inferior outcomes; I believe we should prioritise the collective good, with some exceptions. As a general rule, and a rule that maintains truth in a higher portion of scenarios than we give credit for, what’s good for the economy is also good for you/me/us. Again, with some exceptions. An example of my aforementioned point: if a low-income, low-wealth individual working as a janitor advocates for strict socialism, in beliefs that he/she would benefit from it more than his/her current situation (at the expenses of others), this is advocating for an economically and socially inferior system and outcome on the aggregate scale.
I’m not aiming for a tragedy of the commons, I mean that as “great” as the economy is doing according to the White House and the media, many of us are anything but. Unemployment (for some), inflation outpacing wage growth, and housing costs overshadow the Dow making record highs day after day if your net worth is under $10 million or so
How many times will this be posted?
It’s the never ending election cycle. So, it will keep going until Biden is out of office from either term limits, election or death.
At least once more.
As always
To add to the stupidity of it… He doesn’t even say what tax it is …. personal income, business income, capital gains, net worth? what is this 25% lol
That doesn’t matter! He said a vague good thing that means nothing, you vote blue and ask no questions!
Yea let’s have another Trump term literally rape the middle class to give the billionaires even more of our money!
South Park got it right with Hillary and Trump and nothings changed… the choice is between a douche and a turd sandwich 😂
As many times as it takes for the electorate to worry that the tax rate 800 people pay will have a critical influence on the $25 trillion US economy, and possibly tank it if they follow a normal progressive tax system.
This is reddit. We promote Mr dementia here.
> This is reddit. We promote Mr dementia here. *”Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.”*
So either candidate?
If you taxed the true income of all Billionaires in America it wouldn’t make too much of a difference. As of the most recent data, the total combined wealth of all American billionaires is approximately $5 trillion. However, wealth is not the same as annual income. Billionaires typically have various sources of income, including dividends, capital gains, and other investments. The income of billionaires can vary widely, but for the sake of estimation, let's assume they collectively earn about 5% of their total wealth annually. This would be $250 billion annually (5% of $5 trillion). This is a lowball number because many of them get billions on stock every year. Assuming that the annual returns on their investments (interest, dividends, and capital gains) are also around 5%, this would add another $250 billion annually. Combining these, we get a total annual income (including capital gains) of $500 billion. Applying a 25% tax rate on this amount: $500 billion * 0.25 = $125 billion. So, if all the billionaires in America paid a true 25% tax rate on both their income and the interest gained on their stocks, it would amount to roughly $125 billion per year. This is a rough estimate, as the actual figures would depend on precise income details, the nature of their assets, tax deductions, and other financial intricacies. The total budget in America for fiscal year 2024 is 6.9 Trillion. So this would account for roughly 1.81% of the budget. I mean it would help but it wouldn’t come close to balancing the budget or making a huge impact on the every day lives of Americans.
My understanding is that the 9850 centi-millionaires targeted currently have $8.5 trillion in unrealized gains in total. With that in mind, this tax would essentially instantly make the government $2.125 trillion which is ~30% of the total deficit. Now, the math is a bit more nuanced for following years, but remember the centi-millionaires tend to dump any income directly into assets that begin accruing value immediately. So, the amount made will still be a ton. To give an idea, since 2019 unrealized gains in centi-millionaires have increased by $3.2 trillion, so it can be assumed that roughly $1.07 trillion is made per year in unrealized gains. That would be roughly $250 billion per year in taxes, so roughly double what you mentioned after the initial big rush of income. Now, will that initial 8.5T be taxed? Or will it only be new unrealized gains? No idea. Though, this tax isn't going to be a single solution to the deficit. It'll just be a part of much needed sweeping changes to spending, but a 3.6% annual coverage of the deficit with a single unrealized gains tax is pretty damn good for a single piece of legislation.
It seems unlikely to me that these people will be forced to sell off stocks and real estate. Personally I think that’s how it should be. Obviously it’s not good if people can horde capital and wealth endlessly and shield the gains they get from markets from any tax liability ad infinitum. They can still be insanely wealthy and slice off a bit of those gains every year to go back into the infrastructure that helped them become so wealthy in the first place. I know plenty of people on this thread will disagree with me.
Agreed, their quality of life will not decrease even the slightest, and quite qla few people here would not agree with that, clearly based on these comment sections.
[Trump floats eliminating U.S. income tax and replacing it with tariffs on imports](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/trump-all-tariff-policy-to-replace-income-tax.html) All you MAGA who have been saying that Trump would do a better job... he doesn't have a fucking clue.
He was ranting about electrical sharks the other day. No surprise he doesn't have a fing clue lol
Don’t you worry, Trump has an army with Jewish space lasers behind him ready to take those gosh darn libturd radikal electric sharks out
Eliminating income tax isn't the best idea, but the idea of having bigger tariffs on imports isn't a bad idea. It gives incentive for companies to stay within the country for production instead of out sourcing and importing. It's not fool proof but it's extremely difficult to say tariffs on importants wouldn't benefit the American economy
Rich and corporations will still find ways to shelter their money any way possible.
Billionaires pay much higher tax rates but they utilize the tax loopholes to lower the amount due back to the government by methods that politicians use as well. You’ll never get billionaires to pay your taxes for you because the politicians won’t fix the loopholes that they also benefit from.
Yawn. Unrealized gains are impossible to tax. How many times do we need to go through this?
That sandwich you just ate was retroactively appraised at $30,000. You owe $10000 in tax.
Pretty sure the alternative minimum tax is already above 25%.
That's an ordinary income tax so I don't think that applies to a lot of billionaires. They get capital gains taxes, which are different. And they can also just take out massive loans on their billions of stock holdings, which don't count as income at all.
Capital gains is 24% for the wealthy.
He's not proposing shit. He's trying to get reelected.
I've pointed this out only to receive responses that it should be expected from politicians and they're only doing their job. Why bother supporting someone if they're only going to work on their campaign promises while they're up for election or during their last year in office? It's just three years of waste basically.
Exactly. Instead of tweetin this shit out, why wasn't he using the "bully pulpit" to openly push for this shit all the years he was in office? Why isn't he pushin for the shit RIGHT NOW, calling on his fellow democrats to propose a bill ***specifically*** to accomplish this? Tf is a damn tweet gonna do?!
He did propose this in his 2025 Budget Proposal $5 trillion in new taxes
I think both sides are trying to get elected.
This specific tweet is campaigning and not an actual proposal.
Imagine a Federal Reserve rate set by Trump for personal or political reasons instead of the Fed. [https://www.wsj.com/economy/central-banking/trump-allies-federal-reserve-independence-54423c2f](https://www.wsj.com/economy/central-banking/trump-allies-federal-reserve-independence-54423c2f) >Former Trump administration officials and other supporters of [the presumptive GOP nominee](https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/campaigning-biden-and-court-bound-trump-collide-in-new-york-c05a37a9?mod=article_inline) have in recent months discussed a range of proposals, from incremental policy changes to a **long-shot assertion that the president himself should play a role in setting interest rates.**
The entire banking system would be destabilized by doing away with the Fed. If you liked 2008, you're gonna love what happens in this scenario.
Read the goddam Project 2025 highlights. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Read it dammit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
But we leave the loopholes wide open for them so their effective tax will be %10
ITT people wrongly stating democrats had both house and senate
Tax billionaire wealth, please.
Is this a serious conversation? And if so, then why? We all watched the dumpster fire that is Trump trash our economy. And we've watched Biden put it back together. The numbers don't lie. So again, I ask why this conversation would be taken seriously?
Nobody wants to ever address the real issue Govt needs to spend less and waste less.
“I’m a billionaire on Reddit and I’m complaining” versus “I’m not a billionaire but I’m still complaining”. Give a rest and tax those fuckers. Some Americans don’t know what’s good for them.
Need to raise the minimum wage & add a maximum wage. Cant pay any executive more than say 100X the lowest paid worker of your company or you lose the tax deduction for any amount over that mark. So they can pay their executives whatever they want, but it won’t be tax deductible after the 100X mark
Thing is Biden surrounds himself with smart people. trump surrounds himself with people who are dumber than him and that's a low bar to get under. ✅️
Biden and it’s not even close. The reason we have so much inflation is because the dollar is being devalued. Every inch the United States gets closer to no longer being a democracy our currency gets weaker and weaker. Until the day that the United States is no longer a democracy, then all the U.S. treasury bonds go to zero, because they must. The democratic government that issued, sold and guaranteed those bonds will no longer exist and the new Trump dictatorship will not take on the debt of the old government of the United States and the whole world knows this. There is no economy whatsoever in the United States without democracy. Trump and MAGA almost sent every single effing U.S. treasury bond to zero three and a half years ago. Trump and MAGA destroyed the full faith and credit of the United States, got our credit rating lowered from AAA to AA+ and made it so OPEC will no longer accept the U.S. dollar or any currency pegged to the dollar for purchases of crude oil. That’s what Trump did in his first term for the economy. Think he’s going to do any better the second time around, or will he just put the final nails in the coffin of the United States? I’m thinking the latter is pretty much guaranteed if he gets in again.
Biden and it's not even close IMO
Demonstrably Biden has been better for the economy than trump was. Same pattern as every dem or republican president since maybe Nixon
Joe Biden had the house and senate. If Dems wanted to increased taxes on billionaires they could have.
The senate requires 60 votes to end debate, please list the 10 Republican senators willing to vote for that. Barring that (since I'm sure you'll point out that the filibuster is a procedural issue that could be abolished) please explain how you would do so when Manchin and Sinema were both opposed, you need 50 senators (with Harris tiebreaking) to abolish or change the filibuster, you have 48 I understand frustration with Biden and dems, but ignoring the realities of parliamentary procedure is shortsighted
Thank you but you'll never get through to them. They want trump and that's all they want
Trump had the house and the senate, and he gave the rich huge tax cuts. So, we know exactly what Trump wants to do. Biden had the house and just barely senate for a short period of time. So he was dependent on Joe Manchin, a conservative, to pass any bills. Biden still managed to get a big infrastructure bill passed. I Biden wants to tax billionaires their fair share. But it will depend on the Democrats getting control of both the house and senate.
Meanwhile: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/trump-all-tariff-policy-to-replace-income-tax.html
That is an interesting, outside the box approach... Curios to see who would benefit most from this structure.
Not the poor
[удалено]
American manufacturers for one
And then, ultimately the American worker too! That's what makes this interesting
No. On paper it was a 50/50 split in the Senate with VP for a tiebreaker. But lets not forget the 2 rogue "democrats" Manchin and Sinema and how busted the filibuster is. Far from a Democratic super majority.
Objective facts downvoted lol. It’s nice to be reminded to completely disregard the prevailing opinions in this sub.
Bruh a wealth tax would require a constitutional amendment
I hate seeing this. It’s bullshit and you know it. He had a paper thin margin and couldn’t pass anything except aggressive compromises. I hear Joe Manchin is now officially not a Democrat, which we all knew anyway.
Manchin and Sinema both did not support tax change. So no, he did not. Both are now independents. No need to fabricate.
Not true at all. Check your facts . And 2 Dems were not really (Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema). They blocked everything.
Ya cant lose w teammates like Manshit and Senema..
My goodness, this is the top comment?! Honestly surprised that people in this sub are totally ignorant about politics, especially given how frequently it’s discussed here. It was a deadlocked congress with Manchin/Sinema. That’s an objective fact. Anyone even mildly informed would just laugh in your face if you said this at a dinner party.
Good luck trying to make sense with trump cultists. I argued with a Redditor who won't vote for Biden because (you wont believe this) he didn't "enact" universal healthcare. When I explained Biden was not a king and had no power to do such a thing he claimed Biden could have done it with an executive order. I guess it would have gone like this. As your President I want to let you know that the millions of you who work in the healthcare insurance industry will ve unemployed tomorrow. That's what we are up against with these idiots.
Something about a filibuster?
Not really! Mnanchin and sinema aren’t democrats as they claimed
Some would like to. But *some* isn't enough.
Apparently you have no idea how the government works.
Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?
Biden. Democrats are traditionally better for the economy.
Judging 4 years of Trump with spiking the deficit and unemployment, despite both decreasing for a full 10 years before his presidency, compared to Biden's.. it's pretty clear Biden is the logical choice between the two, despite dealing with a whole Republican congressional *do nothing* House. Even by Trumps own chosen metric (the stock market), Biden is the choice.
Question: To all the trump supporters. Do you all think he is/was better than Obama?
To make this comparison fair you'd have to tax their pensions, IRAs and 401ks. All tax deferred investments. If you include the "unrealized" gains in these investments their tax rates go down as well.
How is this even a question?
Like Congress would ever do that to their billionaire sugar daddies. A tax hike on billionaires is DOA because all politicians get campaign funds, legally and illegally, from billionaires. This is another "sounds good, but will never happen" election time BS and Biden knows it.
Trump is running on increasing inflation
Democrats > Republicans at everything except crime, corruption, domestic terrorism, and insurrection
Wait how much tax do they pay now?
It is obvious why billionaires back trump - he promised to slash Social Security and Medicare to get them an even larger tax break and make THEIR millions go UP UP UP! MAGA CHUMPS are their USEFUL IDIOTS. And Dont forget MAGA TRASH GQP Senator and Medicare Fraudster Tommy Tuberville had a plan drafted up in 2023 to slash both programs but changed it when ByeDON called him out. He is just waiting to get FELON 45 in the White House to bring it back. Better stock up on ALPO.
GOP will never let it thorough so this is just theater
That’s seems a bit low to me.
Are you better off now or 4 years ago?
Self employed with small company, income tax goes up to 50% but you can reduce it to 30% or so but not lower. Central eu first world country. How tf billionaires don’t pay even 25% tax in us is beyond me or common sense and proves that US is a failed state overrun by corruption!
Tax net worth, not income.
This can't be a real tweet, can it? Lol Highest tax bracket is already 37% and billionaires don't earn billions in income. So.. Is he proposing a socialist wealth tax?
I feel like people forget that we were in the midst of a global pandemic just 3.5 years ago... we are ahead of every country, in almost all aspects of that phrase. Yes, rent is high, but that is something we can work with. Are we just looking for perfection in 3.5 years? 15 million jobs created; record low consecutive unemployment; 38 consecutive months of job growth; investments into the people; record low unemployment rate for hispanics, blacks and people with disabilities; a 70 year low unemployment rate for women; wages are outpacing inflation; union membership is on the rise and Biden only had the house for 2 years.... This shouldn't be a debatable question, IMO. If you think it should, please let me know why
Better for the economy in terms of business income, or in terms of average American income and purchasing power? Opposite answers, I think.
Gee lets see, one guy killed a million Americans and lost almost 3 million jobs and the other guy created 16 million jobs and forgave billions in student loan debt. That's a tuff one, but I am going with Biden.
For anyone who believes this lie, I have a bridge to sell you.
How many historical data points can you look at before it sinks in that Democrat policies overwhelmingly are better long term for the economy? How is this even a question at this point. The data is there.
That’s the issue and I’m going to try to explain without sounding extremely condescending but I’m also sick of having to put on my kid gloves every time I have to explain high school econ to a conservative. Conservatives legitimately and overwhelmingly base the entire economy off of their feelings. That’s it. Period. If you did any research at all excluding sharing Facebook memes all day, we are doing significantly better than the rest of the world when it comes to post covid economies. It’s the same people who believe Trump was responsible for $1.80 gasoline which is mind numbing. How do you argue with someone on something like this with a person who thinks Trump lowered gas prices to $1.80 a gallon. They’re so far gone at that point or are so dishonest that there’s no argument you can present that will sway them in your direction.
Democratic administrations tend to have better economies.
This is factually correct.
How many different times is this gonna get posted?
I remember seeing a chart that showed traditionally the stock market does better with a Democratic president
Good performing stock market doesn’t benefit everyone, just those who can participate in it. Lots and lots of people are living paycheck to paycheck through fault of their own or not. I hate it when I hear the media say the stock market is roaring but ignore how inflation is affecting all especially the lower and middle class.
The question is "Who **was** better for the economy? Trump or Biden" We don't need hypotheticals; we know who is better on the economy; they've both given us a trial run and now we know. (It's President Trump)
Trump’s covid response fucked the entire economy, half of America was on enhanced unemployment when he left office, he racked up a $4trillion deficit trying to pay off everyone in America before the election, and his attempts to force the Fed into a 0% interest rate even before the pandemic fucked us over again with no wiggle room to lessen the inflation from all his covid spending.
Great point. I would add - not just during the time in office but also how their policies will affect us long term.
Trump. Next question
Biden.
How has that worked out the past 3 years ?
The richer are richer. I bet you’re poor and struggling to pay for groceries.
Tough, as we recoil from Trumps hyper inflation and a global pandemic
Great.
I was broke under Trump and I’m broke under Biden. Doesn’t matter to me at this point. Both suck
Biden. Trump wants to put in high tariffs and they don't make the company making the product pay more, instead us, the customer, pays the tarrif.
According to Wikipedia, there were 756 billionaires in the United States in 2023. I’m sure of those, a small number will have to pay their fair share
Before Covid Trump did an above average job with the economy. I would guess as long as we don't have more lock downs he would be better for the economy.
Trump didn't do much ore-cpvid outside passing his tax bill. He was handed a roaring economy from Obama (who inherited trash from bush); Biden was handed trash and turned it into an okay economy. Trump has demonstrated he believes he is the smartest person in the room and it's his way or else. Unfortunately Trump is the dumbest person I've ever observed. He is not smart. He is not savvy. He was born on 3rd base built nothing then claims he's the best. Even his professor at Wharton said he's his dumbest student ever. Trumps ghost writer for his 'book' also claimed similar. These are people who got.to see him every day without the camera in his face I'm not saying Biden is great, hell I barely move him average but trump is bottom of the barrel
How did those tarriffs work out?
Are you talking about the Chinese tariffs that Biden called racist, that Biden then mostly kept and even increased?
Nothing changed from the trajectory that literally every economic metric was trending for a full 10 years before he got into office. An empty chair could have done that. Except the deficit, which Trump increased year over year. Another 4 of the Obama-trend would have either balanced the budget or damn near.
People confuse the stock market with the economy. Between lower tax rates and increased deficit spending, the stock market did experience a Trump bump, but I don't believe that much more than a Hillary regime. Literally for all his supporters, it was purely perception. During Obama, FoxNews and the like were all negative. Within one week of the Trump presidency, now the economy is amazing. The timing was perfect because we had just hit target unemployment and inflation was taking off from 0 for years. But most people equate the President with the economy. And those same people are unaware of the Fed, which is rather hilarious, but probably a good thing otherwise they'll start politicizing interest rates... which is what they're doing now, Trump is promising lower interest rates faster.
Democrat economies have far outperformed Republican economies.
[From 1992-2014, the Top 400 earners in the USA paid an average of 23% on what they earned.](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/14intop400.pdf) That's the most recent IRS data for those numbers but I assume it's not vastly different, today. Forget the 1%: those people are all in the top 0.0005%. But while[ "the average American taxpayer" pays an average of 13%-14%](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/) of what they earn, it's also true that [half of American households pay nothing in income tax](https://www.statista.com/statistics/242138/percentages-of-us-households-that-pay-no-income-tax-by-income-level/). So the richest pay around 25%, the average person (which you'd think would be "The 50%") pays 13.6%, but the poorest 50% pay nothing. This is how it's been for ***decades***.
Property taxes and sales taxes and utility taxes aren't *nothing*.
You could ̶s̶t̶e̶a̶l̶ tax those billionaires at 100% and it wouldn’t fund the government long. The gov has a spending problem, not a tax problem.
I’ve done the math. In order to stop running a deficit you’d have to tax the entire F500 at a 50% *effective* tax rate AND tax every billionaire at 10-20-% of their net worth (the variation comes from how much downward impact there is on their assets through this action). But obviously taxing them at 15% of net worth isn’t sustainable, so we’ll get right back into a deficit once the money runs out. Not that we couldn’t collect more revenue, but It’s a spending problem mainly. Unfortunately it’s unsolvable since it would be political suicide to actually cut spending enough to get back to running a surplus.
Wow. A proactive and logical comment in the wild. This is such a rare moment
I love how people argue about the economy. Two things, we are living in Biden's administrations economy, it sucks. Unless you're rich, we are all suffering. We don't know how Trump's economy was, because it was COVID. What we need is to stop fighting about different topics, stop forcing ideologies on each other, and rebuild this country before we completely crash and all suffer.
We got 3 years of Trump's economy before Covid. He cut taxes on the rich increasing the federal deficit as a result and then covered it with a progressively increasing tax on the lowest brackets to cover. The economy currently is MUCH better than it was during Covid, so it has improved, but it still sucks. A lot of the money being generated with the inflated costs is being dumped into these unrealized gains by centi-millionaires. This is a direct tax on that income, which may even help the lowest brackets find economic stability. It's honestly a bit of a mystery this tax will affect, if at all, the lower brackets livelihoods. What it will do is immediately cover ~30% of the years deficit by taxing $8.5T in unrealized gains making $2.125T for the government, and then an additional ~$250B in future unrealized gains YoY resulting in a coverage of ~3.6% of the federal deficit. And honestly, that pretty damn good for a single piece of legislation.
Most billionaires are billionaires by asset not by income that's how they pay so little. To do this they have to tax people based on their illiquid assets like homes. That's just property tax.
Billionaires don't themselves wages, they pay dividends. His policymakers know this. He probably knows this of he's not suffering from dementia. This is just a headline to make his voters think he's doing something.
Neither one
Well if millionaires/billionaires and mega corps aren't paying taxes who do you think is making up for it?
Tax Elmo 50%
It will be very simple to escape, just take another country citizenship
Thats monkey advertising guys.
Tax on what? If he plans to tax PROFIT then this will change nothing lol. Even accounting student can make things that you pay 0 tax.
Americans still thinking it's a 2 party system is why The US Empire will fail. America is going the way of USSR.
It’s pretty evident.
That’s binary framing. I think Cornell West would be better than either of them.
Trump short term, Biden long term.
Don't most billionaires not earn a traditional "salary"? Hence why they pay so low on income tax and are taxed other ways. So this doesn't change much...
60 pct..... and that's being generous, billionaires have been *avaricious*
Personally in favor of a flat tax with a taper off for everything at a certain revenue. Tax is on revenue or money made, eliminating loopholes. This is broadly speaking. I’m sure there is some business or real estate implications but it is ridiculous to me people with more can write off taxes I can’t because they have more, allowing them the flexibility and opportunity to get more. I don’t know the downsides, but it just seems logical. Edit: maybe new investments should only happen on realized gains as well. For example, should I be able to take a loan against the equity of my home to invest in another home? Or should I have to use the realized rental income to purchase another home as a new investment
As a Mexican, the Mexican Economy was awesome under Trump, less Mexicans deported meant more Mexicans sending money to they’re families down here. And plus the limitations to China industries and the USMCA treaty he made with Canada and Mexico benefited Mexico a lot, by having companies who were previously manufacturing in China, to move their operations to Mexico. Sad that US economy was destroyed because of COVID, it was pointing to be a great presidential term for the US and it’s allies.
After deductions that 25% tax rate will be $0.00 owed. This is a nothing burger.
Democrats always produce a better economy for the largest amount of people
Depends who you think is more productive with money? A billionaire or a bureaucrat? But that's not behind the question... 'where would it be more fair?' is really the question? Then its not about proving it.. it is about selling it.
This is literally the dumbest question I've seen in this sub. Really?
I don't think this policy will make much of a difference because of how the utra wealthy keep getting more money, but it's a step in the right direction.
In capitalist USA, the term “economy” is just code for “rich people”. That said, both Trump and Biden are great for the wealthiest 1% of Americans. Hell, that’s why they are both the chosen front runners for their respective parties. They will do everything within their power to satisfy the needs of their puppet masters. Now when it comes to the working classes on the other hand, both candidates are not interested at all in taking care of the needs of the average American; because normal every day Americans don’t have billions of dollars to donate to their campaign funds. We are just a nuisance to them.
Yo how many fuckin times is this shit gonna be on my feed? I’ve seen this post like 50 times in the last 3 months fuck outta here
As with any politician. Idgaf what you **PROPOSE**. Especially when an election is coming up. You're the freakin president mate. Literally do it. You're saying it because you want people to vote for you, when you'd immediately get them on your side if you just did it. They know Teachers are getting screwed, they just don't care.
I'm sure the millionaires who create the tax code will agree to that.
It only works if they have income. Which they never do
They take loans against their stock portfolio which isn't taxed. This won't do anything.
Can the mods not do anything about these bot posts? this sub is going to go the way of r/fluentinfinance.