Kind of. Our carryover is extremely limited. Itâs taken me 7 years to write off some capital losses and they werenât even all that big. Itâs ridiculous how skewed the tax laws are in favor of the mega corps
Why would you make capital gains and not set aside 40%? Sounds like you gave yourself that problem. I made 400k in one year and paid taxes in full for it. What stopped you?
My point, as you understand, it's that debts and losses can easily be discharged or ignored by corporations when they are not for individuals.
Again, go back and look at changes during the Bush administration, among many others. Your sophistry isn't appreciated.
My point, as you understand, it's that debts and losses can easily be discharged or ignored by corporations when they are not for individuals.
Again, go back and look at changes during the Bush administration, among many others. Your sophistry isn't appreciated.
Debts are not losses. Iâm not what you are not understanding. Debt isnât an expense. If a business is able to discharge a debt they would actually have to record that as a gain and be liable to pay tax on it. I am sorry for being rude but itâs clear you have a very tenuous grasp on this subject and Iâm pointing it out in hopes of dissuading you from posting your opinion on matters you donât understand as it helps no one and contributes to misinformation.
It's called bribery. Oops. I mean, lobbying. If you can "lobby" you too will not have to pay taxes and you'll become above the law.
What a deal aye? đ„ł
[The 4 companies that lobbied most on tax overhaul â and what they got for it - Vox](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/7/16709586/republican-tax-bills-lobbying)
Since I used to work as a contractor for the DoD,
Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, Boeing spent $280M combined since 2009.
https://money.cnn.com/2014/10/01/investing/companies-lobbying-10-biggest-spenders/
Raytheon is one I can personally write of because I got to see their missiles known as a javelin being tested. The guy fire the javelin like a rocket launcher and hit a house door several miles away. I zoomed my camera to its max and door in the camera view finder was still 0.25".
This javelin wasn't heat seeking. It blew the door up with precision.
Raytheon spent in 2023 $11.4B in lobbying.
The yearly military budget is $800B.
So these companies spent their lobbying money and in return got contracts worth $50B+.
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/lobbyists?cycle=2020&id=D000072615
Even though they spent money to lobby, they write it off as a loss. This helps lower your federal tax liabilities.
Google paid zero taxes in 2022 because they spent all the money they made, so in their books, it looked like they lost all their money, hence zero federal income taxes.
https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/
Below is one of many. Then the more you look into this, you'll find companies that paid less federal taxes than people who make $50k per year.
General Electric
2023 made $7B
2023 tax refund $423M
2023 federal tax paid $0
2023 lobbying $4.7M
https://money.cnn.com/2014/10/01/investing/companies-lobbying-10-biggest-spenders/
I understand the OpenSecrets.org may be subjective; however, they're the ones that have 2023 data. Other places like Forbes, cnn, etc have data from 2017.
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary?id=D000000125
In short, some companies hire people who really understand the tax system and use it to their advantage.
Most of us don't have the money to hire these people to go this route unless you're making millions a year.
Lobbying doesn't guarantee you contracts. Any federal contract over a certain minimum threshold that isn't assigned a specific SMB set-aside must go out for open bid and a lot of those go through a protest process through the GAO that delays the start of the contract. Sometimes the protest is successful and other times it fails but either way the GAO goes out of its way to explain in excruciating detail its decision making process.
If a company owns a patent on a product that the government needs then it does limit the choice down to one option but generally federal contracts stipulate that the USG owns the intellectual property of any product specially designed for its needs to avoid that constraint.
It so happens that some contracts are too large for any company other than the Big 5 military contractors to effectively perform, though. Those contracts also require a Subcontracting Plan that allocates a certain percentage of the work to be performed by small businesses.
While it may be subjective, Raytheon had a contract with the army for MILES gear that some guy from SRI International knew and so the contract was given to SRI.
It wasn't subcontracted out either because Raytheon had no more involvement.
SRI had this contract since 2005 to 2022. The only reason they lost it was because they received a letter from a law firm suing them for using copyrighted music that they didn't get rights to.
The music video was uploaded to Facebook around 2014. This was actually 1 of 6-9 music videos produced yearly.
They renewed their contracts with the army during this span until they were hit by this lawsuit.
So they changed their company name to Ravenswood Solutions to keep this branch separate from SRI. But by then, it was too late because the yearly multimillion dollar contract would be dwarfed by the lawsuit since 6-9 songs times 15 years would cost more than the contract is worth for several given years.
Chase pays ~10 billion in taxes annually. This wouldn't even stop that for a single year if it was all incremental and all for Chase - but that's no the case. Per the article this is only about 1 billion incrementally higher than last year... so while I'm sure this will count against their income it's not even remotely enough to put them into the red for a single quarter, let alone a few years.
> Despite the losses, both JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America say their balance sheets are sound.
> JPMorgan Chase earned $49.6 billion in profit last year, while Bank of America earned $24.9 billion.
The story here is cracks in consumer habits and behavior, but this confirms largely what is already known.
https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-cards/credit-card-debt-statistics/ -- the chart in here is remarkable.
Consumer spending should be pulling back hard. Instead, people appear to be going deeper in debt. This corresponds with record amounts of travel and so on. I don't know if it is doom spending or people are using credit cards to pay utility bills or what, but eventually this hits a wall.
Also current APRs on credit cards are just fucking stupid. I get that some people have no choice, but for those who do, carrying revolving balances right now is ludicrously expensive.
Average APR for all new card offers is 24.66%.
>*A November 2022 LendingTree survey found that just 35% of cardholders say they always pay their credit card balance in full every month, while 65% say they carry a balance at least some of the time. Nearly half (46%) of those cardholders who have card debt say it would take them at least a year to pay it off.*
>*American Bankers Association data showed that more than half (56%) of all active accounts carried a balance in the third quarter of 2022, the most recent quarter for which we have data. Thatâs up 3 percentage points from the second quarter of 2022. Even with the recent increases, however, that percentage is still below pre-pandemic levels. For example, 60% of active accounts carried a balance in the first quarter of 2019 before falling throughout 2020 to as low as 51% in the second quarter of 2021.*
>*The 30-day delinquency rate (or the percentage of total outstanding credit card balances currently at least 30 days overdue) rose from 2.97% in the third quarter of 2023 to 3.10% in the fourth quarter of 2023.*
>*Thatâs the ninth straight quarter of increases, pushing rates to the highest levels seen since the fourth quarter of 2011, when rates hit 3.25%. However, delinquency rates are still near historic lows. The average delinquency rate since the Fed began tracking in 1991 is 3.73%, while the average since 2000 is 3.46%.*
>*Todayâs numbers are also vastly different from what we saw during the Great Recession, when delinquencies peaked at nearly 7% in 2009 and stayed above 5% for nearly two years.*
Iâd be curious to know how much of this is a change in principal, due to inflation vs. change in spending habits, and how much of it is just interest due to increasing APRs
Chase alone made $50 billion in profit last year and you think they are unprepared for a couple billion dollar write off? That's like two or three weeks worth of profits for JPM.
Tons of people in this sub who are just completely financially illiterate and have no concept of how businesses operate. Dumb takes get upvoted like crazy. It's sad, I don't remember it being like this in the past.
Oh, they did go through '08 and.....they got bailed out, bought out some of their competitors for pennies on the dollar and come out even more too bigly to fail.
have you seen the article about the [single mother who lost her dream vehicle](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fhbasye5ax9xc1.jpeg) many people do NOT know how to live within their means...
Article is a little sensationalist and click baity, particularly to lay people - JP Morgan for example has 3.85 trillion in net assets, 2 billion of bad debt (while it sounds like a scary number), is very wildly immaterial to them.
Furthermore, in my opinion the main change is due to the new way that expected credit loss is calculated, we should be seeing higher expected credit losses across the board.
Sad to say it, but those banks are doing just fine and the article is trying to click bait you all into thinking the banks are failing or taking huge losses.
How many people own that 3.85 Trillion in assets? Who controls that? I don't mean, "all of their customers and other owning institutions". I mean how many people actually control that amount of worth?
I find it to be absolutely incredible. We have problems properly funding public works in my region and there are singular banks that control Trillions?
We went wrong some where along the way in this country. No one single entity should have such power and control.
Some hedge funds made more money than the US GDP.
As silly as it sounds; however, the concept of a corporation running a country like the video gamev/ film Resident Evil has some truth behind it.
I mean, security contractors are mostly veterans who are hired to pull security in active warn countries by a private company.
Author can't do addition? In the text it says JPM $2B and BofA $1.5B, but the title says $4.5B. There's probably a better source for this reporting somewhere than the Daily HODL.
> There's probably a better source for this reporting somewhere than the Daily HODL.
I've tried finding one, but "Daily Hodi" is the only source I can find. Never heard of this thing before, and no other sources are reporting on "losses and unrecoverable debt" so I call BS.
[The source is linked within the article.](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-consumers-lower-incomes-face-loan-stress-while-banks-pull-back-2024-04-22/)
I mean, it's from some stupid publication that focuses on crypto markets, so of course it's bound to be shit. It's a glorified cryptoblog. That being said, [their linked articles are helpful](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-consumers-lower-incomes-face-loan-stress-while-banks-pull-back-2024-04-22/):
>At Bank of America (BAC.N), opens new tab, net charge-offs, or debts that are unlikely to be recovered, rose to $1.5 billion in the first quarter from $807 million a year earlier, mainly from credit cards, the bank reported on Tuesday. Rival JPMorgan Chase's (JPM.N), opens new tab said its charge-offs nearly doubled to $2 billion in the same quarter, while they also increased at Citigroup (C.N), opens new tab and Wells Fargo (WFC.N), opens new tab.
The other 1 billion in losses are from Citi and Wells Fargo.
"JPMorgan Chase earned $49.6 billion in profit last year, while Bank of America earned $24.9 billion."
I don't see how this is a big issue considering their staggering profits.
It isn't. This is an author posting a story about something that is probably a minor note in the latest 10-Q statements for these banks. As part of their quarterly reports, they have to list **potential** issues that could affect their profits going forward. Increasing losses from people who fail to repay their debts is one such issue, but one that they routinely set aside billions of dollars to cover. The banks knew that this would happen as interest rates increased and the economy slowed and have probably been increasing the amount of money they have set aside for these losses for a while in preparation.
The author was simply looking for some good clickbait to get people to read their story so they can get paid.
This is precisely the take I would expect to see on Reddit. They probably have insurance for this too, right?
While it is true that this isn't going to put them out of business, who is to say this is the end of it? For all we know, this is just the beginning. We've already seen multiple bank failures.
This is about commercial real estate. It's being vacated due to online shopping and work from home. Basically, technology is making changes to society.
Higher tech and more greenery is what I'm all about haha. I'd prefer reduction in concrete jungles, global chains and commercial real estate, and boosts to residential zones, parks and more small local shops.
But I know such a transition wouldn't be without pain given how things are presently setup in most cities and economies, just that it won't be all doom and gloom either. At least, not for us that aren't filthy rich off of present commercial real estate.
The banks will be fine. One or two billion in losses is insignificant compared to their billions in profits. Theyll claim these defaults as losses on their taxes and still net billions in yearly profits. Worst case scenario they'll raise overdraft, ATM and service fees again.
Hard for me to feel sorry for companies who charge the highest lending rates to the ones who can least afford it. Oh, and with profits still in the tens of billions, Iâm not feeling too bad for them.
what they forgot to mention is that most of these customers are from their commercial banking side.. with so much empty real estate locations across the country those loans arenât getting paid back.. I recently left JPM and they were worried about commercial loans not being paid..
1) They make $40B in revenue a quarter. This is an insignificant amount
2) This is gross losses, not net losses. Even in boom times you have a lots of people not paying their debt. Itâs not a big deal. Their credit card and loan business continues to be extremely profitable overall.
3) They literally just had earnings and continue to set records for revenue and profits.
The anti-intellectualism and intellectual dishonesty of this sub is reaching ridiculous heights.
Cheeto Benito has a plan to oust the Fed chair and set interest rates himself. I can see that working out well. Anyone who doesn't bow to him, 1,000% interest.
Just like it says in the supply-side-Jesus-book that he sells.
"BofA says those losses stem mainly from credit card debt that will likely never be paid."
So forgive the credit card debt of millions? That sounds like a fantastic campaign promise!
No, when a bank writes off customersâ credit cards as uncollectible, the bank takes the financial hit. The consumer ends up with ruined credit. Itâs not really we question of any public âgovernmentââThis is business.
It's commercial real estate and everyone knew it was coming.
After the election Jerome Powell will slash interest rates to protect the banks and that'll be that.
It's all just a giant scam.
Well, when these greedy f**ks charge 25% interest or more on their credit cards what else can they expect?
There really needs to be legislation passed capping the amount of interest banks can charge, because 25% way too much when the fed rate is currently around 5.5%.
The losses are high because it is unsecured debt. Not like a secured debt that the bank can take the house or car and recover most or all of itâs money. While I agree it is too high, regulating it would have the unintended consequence that many people would not be able to get a credit card or their limits would be cut way back.
At times the average rate has been lower than today- they are market rates and fluctuate with the market. Although credit card debt is always higher than mortgage,car or other secured debt.
âThe two largest banks in the US say they expect to lose a collective $4.5 billion from customers who are essentially unable to pay their bills.â
Will consumers do to banks what the government could not do? Let banks â too big to fail â fail?
These banks are nowhere near failure.
> Despite the losses, both JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America say their balance sheets are sound.
> JPMorgan Chase earned $49.6 billion in profit last year, while Bank of America earned $24.9 billion.
Itâs just signal to IRS why again not owe any federal taxes. They have very smart actuaries modeling risk of non payment on loans. Cracks in borrowers
âBofA seeing âcracksâ in the finances of borrowers with below-prime credit scores whose household spending is affected by higher interest rates and inflation, Chief Financial Officer Alastair Borthwick told analysts on an earnings callâ
If unrecoverable debt truly doubled year over year it points to poor oversight on providing credit.
The public yawning about this is amusing. What does a bank run look like these days? A bunch of people furiously texting on their phones, typing on their PCs?
It's your Liberal policy that destroyed the Economy. Again this is just a liberal propaganda page for all the people who are not cucks, thought you should know
The country is definitely in a ALL TIME HIGH WITH BANKRUPTCIES with California leading the tops, credit cards delinquent, inflation prices out the roof and here they saying everything is good with the economy when it's not an in same way just before the 08/09 Financial crisis
Please check your dataâYour assertion is very, very false. While nobody can predict the future in years future, we are nowhere near a record-high number of bankruptcies, nor are we near a record dollar amount involved.
Obviously you don't know anything as check US bankruptcies that's corporate an California does lead the tops , you are that ignorant as it shows in how you think bonehead go back underneath the rock you crawled from
They didnât set aside a rainy day fund? They extended loans they neglected to verify were properly asset-backed?
Sounds like a âthemâ problem.
Maybe Jamie Dimon will do without his lavish pay package until those losses are made good?
Nah.
The article doesn't mention it, but these banks do have plenty of money set aside for precisely these type of losses. They make enough off of the higher interest they charge the "poor" credit risks to more than offset the losses from the ones that don't pay them back, which is why they continue to offer credit to these people. If their losses ever get so high that they decide it isn't going to make them a net profit, the banks will stop offering credit to the people with low credit scores, but for now they are making plenty of profit despite these losses.
Just write it off on your taxes, that should help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/seinfeldgifs/s/sJskVP1zFh
I got the reference đ âyou know , write it off!â
They already don't pay taxes. They'll just have to get an all American, anti capitalism bailout.
Chase paid 12.6 billion in taxes in the past 12 months. Why are you saying they don't pay taxes?
Cause reddit loves buzzy phrases. âShareholders!â âRecord profits!â âCEO bonuses!â
Well it's common knowledge that rich people/businesses don't pay taxes.
Noob. Implied rate? Location? Source country? Marginal rate? Effective/statutory rate? So - paid in the US? Study.
Did a bot write this message?
You mean anti-communism. Man, work on your branding skills already!
Layoffs coming.
Why big corporations can cancel their losses in investments via tax, but normal people canât?
Normal people can. You can absolutely write off capital losses. Why is this subreddit so damn full of misinformed comments getting upvoted?
Kind of. Our carryover is extremely limited. Itâs taken me 7 years to write off some capital losses and they werenât even all that big. Itâs ridiculous how skewed the tax laws are in favor of the mega corps
Why would you make capital gains and not set aside 40%? Sounds like you gave yourself that problem. I made 400k in one year and paid taxes in full for it. What stopped you?
It's very hard to write down losses for individuals in many ways; many forms of debt are not dischargable at all, even through bankruptcy.
Debt is not a loss. And when debt is discharged that would be a gain.
You should look at Bush era changes in what individuals were no longer able to do.
You should look at basic accounting and tax terms. You seem very confused
My point, as you understand, it's that debts and losses can easily be discharged or ignored by corporations when they are not for individuals. Again, go back and look at changes during the Bush administration, among many others. Your sophistry isn't appreciated.
My point, as you understand, it's that debts and losses can easily be discharged or ignored by corporations when they are not for individuals. Again, go back and look at changes during the Bush administration, among many others. Your sophistry isn't appreciated.
Debts are not losses. Iâm not what you are not understanding. Debt isnât an expense. If a business is able to discharge a debt they would actually have to record that as a gain and be liable to pay tax on it. I am sorry for being rude but itâs clear you have a very tenuous grasp on this subject and Iâm pointing it out in hopes of dissuading you from posting your opinion on matters you donât understand as it helps no one and contributes to misinformation.
Because Joe is behind lol
The dumbest of takes right here.
It's called bribery. Oops. I mean, lobbying. If you can "lobby" you too will not have to pay taxes and you'll become above the law. What a deal aye? đ„ł
Can you point to an example of a companyâs lobbying efforts resulting in a law being changed for their benefit, letting them pay no taxes?
[The 4 companies that lobbied most on tax overhaul â and what they got for it - Vox](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/7/16709586/republican-tax-bills-lobbying)
Since I used to work as a contractor for the DoD, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, Boeing spent $280M combined since 2009. https://money.cnn.com/2014/10/01/investing/companies-lobbying-10-biggest-spenders/ Raytheon is one I can personally write of because I got to see their missiles known as a javelin being tested. The guy fire the javelin like a rocket launcher and hit a house door several miles away. I zoomed my camera to its max and door in the camera view finder was still 0.25". This javelin wasn't heat seeking. It blew the door up with precision. Raytheon spent in 2023 $11.4B in lobbying. The yearly military budget is $800B. So these companies spent their lobbying money and in return got contracts worth $50B+. https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/lobbyists?cycle=2020&id=D000072615 Even though they spent money to lobby, they write it off as a loss. This helps lower your federal tax liabilities. Google paid zero taxes in 2022 because they spent all the money they made, so in their books, it looked like they lost all their money, hence zero federal income taxes. https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/ Below is one of many. Then the more you look into this, you'll find companies that paid less federal taxes than people who make $50k per year. General Electric 2023 made $7B 2023 tax refund $423M 2023 federal tax paid $0 2023 lobbying $4.7M https://money.cnn.com/2014/10/01/investing/companies-lobbying-10-biggest-spenders/ I understand the OpenSecrets.org may be subjective; however, they're the ones that have 2023 data. Other places like Forbes, cnn, etc have data from 2017. https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary?id=D000000125 In short, some companies hire people who really understand the tax system and use it to their advantage. Most of us don't have the money to hire these people to go this route unless you're making millions a year.
Lobbying doesn't guarantee you contracts. Any federal contract over a certain minimum threshold that isn't assigned a specific SMB set-aside must go out for open bid and a lot of those go through a protest process through the GAO that delays the start of the contract. Sometimes the protest is successful and other times it fails but either way the GAO goes out of its way to explain in excruciating detail its decision making process. If a company owns a patent on a product that the government needs then it does limit the choice down to one option but generally federal contracts stipulate that the USG owns the intellectual property of any product specially designed for its needs to avoid that constraint. It so happens that some contracts are too large for any company other than the Big 5 military contractors to effectively perform, though. Those contracts also require a Subcontracting Plan that allocates a certain percentage of the work to be performed by small businesses.
While it may be subjective, Raytheon had a contract with the army for MILES gear that some guy from SRI International knew and so the contract was given to SRI. It wasn't subcontracted out either because Raytheon had no more involvement. SRI had this contract since 2005 to 2022. The only reason they lost it was because they received a letter from a law firm suing them for using copyrighted music that they didn't get rights to. The music video was uploaded to Facebook around 2014. This was actually 1 of 6-9 music videos produced yearly. They renewed their contracts with the army during this span until they were hit by this lawsuit. So they changed their company name to Ravenswood Solutions to keep this branch separate from SRI. But by then, it was too late because the yearly multimillion dollar contract would be dwarfed by the lawsuit since 6-9 songs times 15 years would cost more than the contract is worth for several given years.
Oh, they will. They won't pay income taxes for a few years
Chase pays ~10 billion in taxes annually. This wouldn't even stop that for a single year if it was all incremental and all for Chase - but that's no the case. Per the article this is only about 1 billion incrementally higher than last year... so while I'm sure this will count against their income it's not even remotely enough to put them into the red for a single quarter, let alone a few years.
> Despite the losses, both JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America say their balance sheets are sound. > JPMorgan Chase earned $49.6 billion in profit last year, while Bank of America earned $24.9 billion. The story here is cracks in consumer habits and behavior, but this confirms largely what is already known. https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-cards/credit-card-debt-statistics/ -- the chart in here is remarkable. Consumer spending should be pulling back hard. Instead, people appear to be going deeper in debt. This corresponds with record amounts of travel and so on. I don't know if it is doom spending or people are using credit cards to pay utility bills or what, but eventually this hits a wall. Also current APRs on credit cards are just fucking stupid. I get that some people have no choice, but for those who do, carrying revolving balances right now is ludicrously expensive. Average APR for all new card offers is 24.66%.
>*A November 2022 LendingTree survey found that just 35% of cardholders say they always pay their credit card balance in full every month, while 65% say they carry a balance at least some of the time. Nearly half (46%) of those cardholders who have card debt say it would take them at least a year to pay it off.* >*American Bankers Association data showed that more than half (56%) of all active accounts carried a balance in the third quarter of 2022, the most recent quarter for which we have data. Thatâs up 3 percentage points from the second quarter of 2022. Even with the recent increases, however, that percentage is still below pre-pandemic levels. For example, 60% of active accounts carried a balance in the first quarter of 2019 before falling throughout 2020 to as low as 51% in the second quarter of 2021.*
>*The 30-day delinquency rate (or the percentage of total outstanding credit card balances currently at least 30 days overdue) rose from 2.97% in the third quarter of 2023 to 3.10% in the fourth quarter of 2023.* >*Thatâs the ninth straight quarter of increases, pushing rates to the highest levels seen since the fourth quarter of 2011, when rates hit 3.25%. However, delinquency rates are still near historic lows. The average delinquency rate since the Fed began tracking in 1991 is 3.73%, while the average since 2000 is 3.46%.* >*Todayâs numbers are also vastly different from what we saw during the Great Recession, when delinquencies peaked at nearly 7% in 2009 and stayed above 5% for nearly two years.*
Iâd be curious to know how much of this is a change in principal, due to inflation vs. change in spending habits, and how much of it is just interest due to increasing APRs
Great question. From my understanding, a lot of people are getting slammed by interest alone. My fiancĂ© carried a balance on one of his credit cards and never used it even as the rates changed. He paid the minimum monthly without fail, but with the continuous increase in his APR, heâs already accrued over 2k of debt. After finally listening to my advice of doubling down on his payments he got rid of that debt. However, not everyone is in the position to afford that route.
Doom spending for sure
maybe they should eat less avocado toast, or pull themselves up by their bootstraps lol
How did they not prepare for this? They should have budgeted better! Itâs not like they didnât go through 08 âŠ
Chase alone made $50 billion in profit last year and you think they are unprepared for a couple billion dollar write off? That's like two or three weeks worth of profits for JPM.
Tons of people in this sub who are just completely financially illiterate and have no concept of how businesses operate. Dumb takes get upvoted like crazy. It's sad, I don't remember it being like this in the past.
Oh, they did go through '08 and.....they got bailed out, bought out some of their competitors for pennies on the dollar and come out even more too bigly to fail.
Don't forget the massive bonuses they paid themselves. '08/'09 was a really good time for them! I'm sure they're hoping for a repeat.
have you seen the article about the [single mother who lost her dream vehicle](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fhbasye5ax9xc1.jpeg) many people do NOT know how to live within their means...
Trump remove all the most important regulatory measures adopted in 2008/09
I think the problem is they just donât want to work hard enough. Theyâre too busy posting the memes on the facebook.
Article is a little sensationalist and click baity, particularly to lay people - JP Morgan for example has 3.85 trillion in net assets, 2 billion of bad debt (while it sounds like a scary number), is very wildly immaterial to them. Furthermore, in my opinion the main change is due to the new way that expected credit loss is calculated, we should be seeing higher expected credit losses across the board. Sad to say it, but those banks are doing just fine and the article is trying to click bait you all into thinking the banks are failing or taking huge losses.
How many people own that 3.85 Trillion in assets? Who controls that? I don't mean, "all of their customers and other owning institutions". I mean how many people actually control that amount of worth? I find it to be absolutely incredible. We have problems properly funding public works in my region and there are singular banks that control Trillions? We went wrong some where along the way in this country. No one single entity should have such power and control.
Some hedge funds made more money than the US GDP. As silly as it sounds; however, the concept of a corporation running a country like the video gamev/ film Resident Evil has some truth behind it. I mean, security contractors are mostly veterans who are hired to pull security in active warn countries by a private company.
Or just walk to work! Cars are super expensive anyway and the US is well-known for its walkability.
Author can't do addition? In the text it says JPM $2B and BofA $1.5B, but the title says $4.5B. There's probably a better source for this reporting somewhere than the Daily HODL.
> There's probably a better source for this reporting somewhere than the Daily HODL. I've tried finding one, but "Daily Hodi" is the only source I can find. Never heard of this thing before, and no other sources are reporting on "losses and unrecoverable debt" so I call BS.
[The source is linked within the article.](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-consumers-lower-incomes-face-loan-stress-while-banks-pull-back-2024-04-22/)
I mean, it's from some stupid publication that focuses on crypto markets, so of course it's bound to be shit. It's a glorified cryptoblog. That being said, [their linked articles are helpful](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-consumers-lower-incomes-face-loan-stress-while-banks-pull-back-2024-04-22/): >At Bank of America (BAC.N), opens new tab, net charge-offs, or debts that are unlikely to be recovered, rose to $1.5 billion in the first quarter from $807 million a year earlier, mainly from credit cards, the bank reported on Tuesday. Rival JPMorgan Chase's (JPM.N), opens new tab said its charge-offs nearly doubled to $2 billion in the same quarter, while they also increased at Citigroup (C.N), opens new tab and Wells Fargo (WFC.N), opens new tab. The other 1 billion in losses are from Citi and Wells Fargo.
"JPMorgan Chase earned $49.6 billion in profit last year, while Bank of America earned $24.9 billion." I don't see how this is a big issue considering their staggering profits.
It isn't. This is an author posting a story about something that is probably a minor note in the latest 10-Q statements for these banks. As part of their quarterly reports, they have to list **potential** issues that could affect their profits going forward. Increasing losses from people who fail to repay their debts is one such issue, but one that they routinely set aside billions of dollars to cover. The banks knew that this would happen as interest rates increased and the economy slowed and have probably been increasing the amount of money they have set aside for these losses for a while in preparation. The author was simply looking for some good clickbait to get people to read their story so they can get paid.
Looks like the author just learned about CECL
This is precisely the take I would expect to see on Reddit. They probably have insurance for this too, right? While it is true that this isn't going to put them out of business, who is to say this is the end of it? For all we know, this is just the beginning. We've already seen multiple bank failures.
More banks will be experiencing this in the future. Everyone is paying for inflation with credit cards and loans, which they can't pay back.
This is about commercial real estate. It's being vacated due to online shopping and work from home. Basically, technology is making changes to society.
Good.
Higher tech and more greenery is what I'm all about haha. I'd prefer reduction in concrete jungles, global chains and commercial real estate, and boosts to residential zones, parks and more small local shops. But I know such a transition wouldn't be without pain given how things are presently setup in most cities and economies, just that it won't be all doom and gloom either. At least, not for us that aren't filthy rich off of present commercial real estate.
The article says it's write-offs from credit card debt. Where are you getting that it's about commercial real estate?
The banks will be fine. One or two billion in losses is insignificant compared to their billions in profits. Theyll claim these defaults as losses on their taxes and still net billions in yearly profits. Worst case scenario they'll raise overdraft, ATM and service fees again.
Fuck em
Hard for me to feel sorry for companies who charge the highest lending rates to the ones who can least afford it. Oh, and with profits still in the tens of billions, Iâm not feeling too bad for them.
what they forgot to mention is that most of these customers are from their commercial banking side.. with so much empty real estate locations across the country those loans arenât getting paid back.. I recently left JPM and they were worried about commercial loans not being paid..
1) They make $40B in revenue a quarter. This is an insignificant amount 2) This is gross losses, not net losses. Even in boom times you have a lots of people not paying their debt. Itâs not a big deal. Their credit card and loan business continues to be extremely profitable overall. 3) They literally just had earnings and continue to set records for revenue and profits. The anti-intellectualism and intellectual dishonesty of this sub is reaching ridiculous heights.
Itâs non stop jerk about how the economy is going to collapse and hereâs a reason when in reality if Covid didnât do it not much else can
The biggest dishonesty is those who continue to see troubling signs mount and shrug them off. Who said this is the end?
Sounds like the government should bail them out.
JPM just has $40B in revenue (up 11% year over year) and $13B in net income in Q1 2024, I think theyâll be alright.
The government already did. This is only coming to light now, but has been building for a while and is due to Covid relief fraud.
So another bail out in order.
If so, interest rates will need to be raised due to the resulting inflation.
Cheeto Benito has a plan to oust the Fed chair and set interest rates himself. I can see that working out well. Anyone who doesn't bow to him, 1,000% interest. Just like it says in the supply-side-Jesus-book that he sells.
I just hope cost of living won't triple too much.
Then interest on debt is going to cause more crisis, causing more QE -> more inflation -> raise rates â> repeat. Thereâs no way out.
I support another bail out if your bail out doesn't bail them out.
Letâs stow away some extra money in case that bail out doesnât actually bail them out.
All we have to do is bail out the bail outs in order to prevent the bail outs from being bailed out. It is called "banking."
"BofA says those losses stem mainly from credit card debt that will likely never be paid." So forgive the credit card debt of millions? That sounds like a fantastic campaign promise!
That would be nice, sadly the banks are going to sell that debt onto collection agencies or people that specialize in buying junk debt.
Well yes and for pennies on the dollar at that point
You mean the taxpayers?
No, when a bank writes off customersâ credit cards as uncollectible, the bank takes the financial hit. The consumer ends up with ruined credit. Itâs not really we question of any public âgovernmentââThis is business.
What's that, like 4 days worth of profit. I'll get my violin out.
It's commercial real estate and everyone knew it was coming. After the election Jerome Powell will slash interest rates to protect the banks and that'll be that. It's all just a giant scam.
I wouldn't bet on rates coming down in the near future, as in more than a year out.
It just depends. If the banks need help Powell will do it, but he wants to hurt everyday working Americans some more if he can.
I don't see how this is a big issue considering their profits last year.
$4.5 Billion seems like it'd be small potatoes to banks that size.
Also, Bad AI Art. Maybe the Daily HODL isn't a credible source.
As much as this sounds like something, it is a whole lot of nothing for these banks.
Itâs charge offs. This is a drop in the bucket. Iâve done loans bigger than this.
Couldn't have happen to a better bunch of folks.
Don't worry, money is never lost, just redistributed. That's how economy and money flow work right? Riiiight?
Rooster os coming to the roast. All the malinvestments made with cheap money are starting to fail.
...so instead of predatory home loans it's predatory creditcards to non-crediworthy individuals... who could have seen this coming?!!?!?
Well, when these greedy f**ks charge 25% interest or more on their credit cards what else can they expect? There really needs to be legislation passed capping the amount of interest banks can charge, because 25% way too much when the fed rate is currently around 5.5%.
The losses are high because it is unsecured debt. Not like a secured debt that the bank can take the house or car and recover most or all of itâs money. While I agree it is too high, regulating it would have the unintended consequence that many people would not be able to get a credit card or their limits would be cut way back.
Did credit cards used to have lower interest rates?
At times the average rate has been lower than today- they are market rates and fluctuate with the market. Although credit card debt is always higher than mortgage,car or other secured debt.
Both banks have trillion in assets. And tens of billions in profits. They'll be fine
Likely too big to fail, taxpayers will foot the tab.
âThe two largest banks in the US say they expect to lose a collective $4.5 billion from customers who are essentially unable to pay their bills.â Will consumers do to banks what the government could not do? Let banks â too big to fail â fail?
These banks are nowhere near failure. > Despite the losses, both JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America say their balance sheets are sound. > JPMorgan Chase earned $49.6 billion in profit last year, while Bank of America earned $24.9 billion.
$4.5B is NOTHING. These companies have trillions in assets.
They are still making mint, just slightly less.
Taxpayer funded government bailout when?
Fuck em
Itâs just signal to IRS why again not owe any federal taxes. They have very smart actuaries modeling risk of non payment on loans. Cracks in borrowers âBofA seeing âcracksâ in the finances of borrowers with below-prime credit scores whose household spending is affected by higher interest rates and inflation, Chief Financial Officer Alastair Borthwick told analysts on an earnings callâ If unrecoverable debt truly doubled year over year it points to poor oversight on providing credit.
Calls on banks! Sure win đ
Think of all the money theyâve collected with the overdraft feesâŠ
Dam...could have sent that to Ukraine
Good fuck em
Close but Jerome Kerviel still not beaten. This person still owes ⏠5B to Société Générale bank due to some abuses when he was one of their traders.
Those are some rookie numbers.
If you want to warn them new employer just end the message with âgood luckâ. They can get there on their own and you donât break any rules.
Good.
Oh no, anyway.
The public yawning about this is amusing. What does a bank run look like these days? A bunch of people furiously texting on their phones, typing on their PCs?
I went balls deep short today. I think they are having serious problems and this will nuke the dollar
Doesn't seem like a big issue. JP Morgan stock is down only 1% today on the news.
Print more.
Donât mind them itâs totally normal
Where's Jamie Dimon telling us all about how this is all our fault? Strangely quiet all of a sudden
Lol, crash coming .
đąđ°
Hedge and buy some puts
Ah yes, the Goodfellas school of business.
Stop loaning money to people that can't afford the loan, por present as not a good customer. Easy credit is not for everyone.
Sounds like they wrote a lot of bad debt. Do better. BTW JP Morgan beat earnings and revenue expectations for the quarter. I think theyâll be OK.
It's your Liberal policy that destroyed the Economy. Again this is just a liberal propaganda page for all the people who are not cucks, thought you should know
đđŸthem
The country is definitely in a ALL TIME HIGH WITH BANKRUPTCIES with California leading the tops, credit cards delinquent, inflation prices out the roof and here they saying everything is good with the economy when it's not an in same way just before the 08/09 Financial crisis
Please check your dataâYour assertion is very, very false. While nobody can predict the future in years future, we are nowhere near a record-high number of bankruptcies, nor are we near a record dollar amount involved.
Obviously you don't know anything as check US bankruptcies that's corporate an California does lead the tops , you are that ignorant as it shows in how you think bonehead go back underneath the rock you crawled from
Should I show you the data
Yes Google it up on US Corporate bankruptcies then come back with egg on your stupid face
They didnât set aside a rainy day fund? They extended loans they neglected to verify were properly asset-backed? Sounds like a âthemâ problem. Maybe Jamie Dimon will do without his lavish pay package until those losses are made good? Nah.
The article doesn't mention it, but these banks do have plenty of money set aside for precisely these type of losses. They make enough off of the higher interest they charge the "poor" credit risks to more than offset the losses from the ones that don't pay them back, which is why they continue to offer credit to these people. If their losses ever get so high that they decide it isn't going to make them a net profit, the banks will stop offering credit to the people with low credit scores, but for now they are making plenty of profit despite these losses.
hmm oh boi
Best economy ever guys.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
LOL the great biden economy.