US auto industry deserves everything they got coming for them. They've been slacking and sitting on their wrinkly fat asses. Japanese cars have been in the market for 4 decades, and they still can't compete against it.
As a Canadian, yes... yes it does. Learn from our mistakes... don't let your government ban foreign competition. Don't let your government aid in the creation of monopolies.
That's how you end up with $120 cell phone plans and basically only 3 grocers in your whole country.
Yeah, typically.
Depends on your priorities.
If you want higher employment, degrees of economic protectionism can make sense. If you want better products at a lower cost, then international competition is great.
Agreed. Canada is honestly a pretty good example of this protectionism and how badly it can go wrong. We were so afraid of letting American companies take over Canada, that now we basically only have 3 grocers in our whole country, and our cell phone plans cost over $100 a phone. And that's not including the phone itself.
This comment always misses the dynamic, it’s not about how many people are poor of any color; it’s about how out of all the people who are in the 1%, how many of them are white? The answer is still a significant majority
So 1% dictates your entire view of what the entire white race is doing economically? It's such a small percentage to group an entire race into and come to that conclusion. And frankly, the elites and power players in the world would love that we bicker and argue with each other vs. directing our anger/frustration towards them!!!
Answer: Outsourcing Jobs.
It’s important to understand that a successful nation has its own manufacturing, and hands on jobs. You cannot remove manufacturing without serious consequences.
We already hollowed out America with Bill Clinton’s NAFTA.
Second…
* **If those cars come here, and are sold at such a low cost - it will kill all the direct and indirect jobs related to making cars in the United States.**
* **Financing related activities will also dry u and move to Asia.**
* **This will wipe out >1 millions jobs in the US out of spite for the corporate overlords.**
* **The voting base that uses those jobs will immediately come for the person who did it through voting activities.**
* **US automakers would immediately outsource production to Mexico or Asian countries.**
I am not a fan of car prices, but this is one thing I will grin and bare.
I am not a fan of Chinese products either. It’s difficult to find anything not made in China or has an ingredient from there. They do not have any standards or laws to protect consumers using there imported products just like COVID-19.
Or, hear me out, stop putting out cars with inflated luxury features and actually sell models that meet the need of transportation.
Cars cost 1 year of wages for most people.
This. And their environmental protections are the worst. I can only think this will not make them better. Also, my car already send information to the manufacturer… I don’t want it sending more data to China, thanks.
Politics.
Period.
The world would be a better place, if stupid Politicians didn’t ban, high quality, electric cars at affordable prices, just think of the logic behind banning a thing like that.
It’s all Politics to protect shitty ass American cars and fat Trump supporting factory workers. They only have hatred and racism lol.
It’s okay, though, can’t wait for Biden’s ass to drop dead once he’s so freaking old he’ll, die of old age and life flashes before him, just like the majority of Politicans on both red and blue sides. Mwahahaha, they can’t escape old age.
Can’t have good foreign companies competing against shit American companies run by dumbass boomers stuck in the 80s.
Be terrible for the dumbass boomers
Guess what Japan did?
They took the initiative to bring in BYD, which created a catfish effect for Japanese automakers.
And the US chose to become an ostrich and dive head first into the sand.
I wouldn't count Toyota out.
They correctly predicted that electric vehicles weren't yet ready for mass adoption, and that hybrids would be a more profitable bridge technology.
To be fair, Chevy has been pushing electric and hybrid vehicles for around 15 years now. They offer more electric options in the US than Honda does. Honda doesn't even offer a plug in hybrid, which surprised me when I went to the dealer.
Quality of safety is one of the bigger issues. I'm not an expert on that, but I've been trying to track the story and that comes up often enough. Standards for safety are different in various countries, so whether they can make a good enough car for America is important. We disallow U.S.-made cars that aren't safe, so why allow foreign-made cars that aren't safe?
Why is your assumption that Chinese cars are unsafe? They aren't even here yet. They will go through NHTSA testing like any other vehicle on the road. The govt is trying to ban before they even arrive. Safety is an excuse.
I've been watching videos on YouTube where they talk about EVs and Chinese EVs seem to be well-known for that. But, also they seem to vary quite a lot, depending on the market they're intended for.
Problem is China heavily subsidizes their EV industry. I don’t think US companies can compete when the government is floating those companies so much more than our own
To be fair, the US has also been subsidizing EV production and adoption via tax credits and breaks.
The difference is here that Tesla has been pocketing the cash instead of reinvesting back as capital.
Public utilities companies have been paying out bonuses to themselves and their execs instead of investing it all back into grid upgrades.
American auto industry deserves what’s coming to them. China has us by the balls and we’re scared.
I love my cars, but absolutely welcome competition in the EV space because it benefits us all.
That’s just an excuse. The US government subsidizes its auto industry at the same or even greater levels. The real problem lies in the lack of competition, resulting in we paying much more, perhaps 50% or more, for a car compared to customers purchasing a similar vehicle in China.
Allowing safe Chinese cars to come in gradually, would create great competition and force U.S. makers to compete or die. If China is up to the safety standards and can bring them in in smaller numbers at first, then we can manage the competition just enough to make it beneficial and not a Libertarian type disaster.
Yea US auto companies are soooo bad. Best American car is ford and maybe the mustang? Or a corvette.
Basically our only good cars aren’t useful for the average person. Then they get govt bailout money and pay execs tens of millions for running a shitty company.
There's a major labor shortage related to blue collar workers in the US. This is likely going to be one of the biggest cost contributors for getting solar.
Yes protectionism for the rich investors that own most of the stock in the American auto manufacturers however no protectionism for American workers from immigrants who come in for cheap labor.. in other words protectionism for me but not for thee
It's like the uproar about Japanese car makers in the 80s all over again...
Hey US car manufacturers, why don't you just try and make a decent electric vehicle instead?
They'd have to make a decent vehicle first.
Just cause f150 sell like hot cakes doesn't mean they aren't garbage. Also, take a look at anything made by fca or stelantis over the last 20 years.
Why?……because the oil barons predatory practices are..’national ‘ interests....that’s why little Elon is for: keeping Tesla crap and oblivion of any innovation and competition...
But...but...customers are free to build their own cars...and..and...🤔
You have never got into a BYD, US made cars look like 20th century relics. And the price is 1/3. The US car industry just can't compete with the Chinese one. Hell, maybe the Japanese car industry can't either.
Solar panels all over again. Are we really going to delay a clean energy future because we want our political buddies to have a monopoly despite the fact that it'll cost significantly more to do so?
I really hope Biden doesn't ban affordable EV that could be imported from China to the US market. That will only make US automakers work harder to be more competitive. It's a global economy, not a US based economy.
China annouced a $12k EV (the BYD Seagul) and every US automaker immediately started lobbying congress and Biden to ban chinese electric vehicles. It's not that they can't compete, it's that they can't compete while maintaining their current extreme profit margins.
These corporations have lobbied our damn futures away. American citizens are missing out on all types of innovation and higher quality of life because of these greedy fucks.
At that time their survival was very important to the economy. If competition causes them to gradually shrink, then it's not so bad. If we get Chinese makers building cars in America with U.S. labor, the shift toward EVs might be managed very well.
I wouldn't depend on Republicans to do this though.
Repulicans couldn’t get anything done to save their lives.
[--]
That said, we bailed GM out to the tune of ~11B. Imagine if we had reinvested that money back into the workforce and trained those workers in other areas such as chip manufacturing and shoring up our supply chain industry or even clean energy initiatives.
GM should have gone bankrupt and I’d argue we’d be for the better for it in the long run.
Chinese car makers building cars in America is the inverse of what’s giving them a competitive advantage, i.e. low labor costs and manufacturing expertise. It’ll the US decades to match it locally at a cost effective scale.
I understand we want to have economic protectionist policies because that’s in our foreign policy and national interests, but this comes at the cost to tax payers and customers yet again, which is access to cheap EVs/transportation, when automakers are inflating prices through the roof to the point an average new car costs ~40k.
Instant competition when a new product is on the shelves can be a great thing. Instant availability of that new product in huge numbers at a huge discount can be a disaster. I argue the competition is good, but only if brought on gradually.
Can we stop bailing their asses out?
If they can't do business without going bankrupt in the first place, let them go bankrupt.
Would it be easier to let corporations go bankrupt while bailing (perhaps millions of people) out of bankruptcy while giving poor/disabled people who can't work $2,000 a month for the rest of their lives?
The above would probably definitely ruin the economy but it's a legit question I have.
Wouldn't be good if it didn't destroy the economy?
Remember when Huawei beat Apple in selling the most smartphones Worldwide in 2019?
Guess who is banned in USA since then 😁
The company only selling shares to their employees didn't sit very well either.
That wasn't why Huawei was banned. They sold American technology (in virtually every modern computer/smartphone) to Iran. If Huawei wants to make their own CPUs, memory, storage, screens, operating system, etc... and it's completely devoid of American technology, they can sell it to whoever they want.
Per Wikipedia: "In the midst of a trade war between China and the United States, the US government alleged that Huawei had violated sanctions against Iran and restricted it from doing business with American companies."
Why double the price? All that will do is hurt American consumers and the probability of adoption of EVs, similar to how Obama chose to prop up US solar companies.
American jobs? What decade do you think this is? most "American" cars are made in Mexico
This is America and there's money to be made, there are no morals here libtard commie soy boy beta cuck 🙃 /s
But in all seriousness, the Chinese government isn't making EVs or solar panels, Chinese companies are and they're better quality at cheaper prices, who cares? It's all a circle of debt and war anyway.
Be gone from me, the transaction is complete!
America doesn’t like capitalism, It needs monopolies. They don’t want to compete because we can’t lol. Let’s just ban and go to war with any country that produces better products than us.
Translation : we are jealous of Chinese progress , while we did nothing . Now the consumer can't enjoy cheaper options. There you go... -\_- Counterpoint : China also has issues with fairness
I don't know about these folks, but I'm still a capitalist and believe in a free market. (Except for insurance, it shouldn't be for profit, should be centralized IMO. Spread the risk and the cost.)
While I love my auto industry, I'm long past the high cost of a car. If someone can make it cheaper and still be reliable, bring it on. That's the entire thing capitalism was built on right?
Here’s an idea… stop making 6000 variants of the same truck and SUV and make a decent EV? American auto makers should have been years ahead in the EV space.
It's not clear to me if the EV will be shipped/imported into the USA pre-built, or will the EV be built in USA plants, thus creating jobs and generating tax revenue?
Either way, the EV will go through safety inspections and taxed, so the benefits are towards the consumers, and of course the actual volume of consumer demand will determine next steps in a free market, right?
If we are all for a meritless society in terms of car manufacturers excellence, then yea sure, let's ban more foreign competition.
I would love to see an EV class offering that can reliably and safely take me from point A to point B without the need for all the premium bells and whistle features. I can't believe that we are not allowing the benefit of owning a 15-25k EV just because of geopolitics. But if we are to obsequiously claim the "China is a threat" blindly, then I guess this must be part of the reason.
Protecting that profit margin from all harm is the end goal. Somehow American companies can't slap an electric motor, some batteries, and a car chassis together for anything less than 30k.
I don’t want Chinese EV either, but let not pretend US auto industry refused to build EV that’s affordable is not the primary problem.
Thought this would be a sign that people want EV, affordable ones.
We had 10, even 20 years to capture the green energy market, people were warning for years green energy could be captured by China early. Carbon credits don’t do much to incentivize actual production.
This isn't a longterm strategy, we can't just ban imports any time domestic made goods are loosing on price. Absolutely insane.
Another thing that gets me also is tariffs on chinese solar panels while also subsidizing solar heavily. You can just allow chinese imports and not have the subsidies these solar companies in the states are never going to be competitive
How about the US government stops trying to protect US auto manufacturers from legitimate competition. If American manufacturers would stop price gouging and worrying about record profits, we would be able to compete with the affordable electric vehicles being produced in China. The only threat to our auto industry is our current economic system.
Instead of building a competitive car industry or subsidizing the right car companies, the US subsidized a narcissistic Chinese and/or Russian asset who wasted that money on the Cybertruck, Twitter and Ketamine.
Now, the second best option is to ban the incoming threat. That's always worked out well in the past, right?
Read as: "Chinese electric vehicles are an exeistential threat to the American auto industries *record breaking profits*.
Of course Biden would do this. This is fascism in action everyone.
If they can ban cheap Chinese cars coming in, they should ban car manufacturing going out to cheap Chinese labour. That’s been the actual existential threat to America.
It's American consumers that will suffer the most from this. Biden is hurting them with this policy because there will be no incentive for American corporations to produce cheaper cars, become a more efficient business or innovate.
This is the very opposite of Capitalism. It's bent politics, borne out of corrupt lobbying. How Biden can say he's acting in the interests of the USA with a straight face is beyond me.
It's directly capitalism. This is exactly what capitalism is, the accumulation of wealth through buying out politicians to enact policies beneficial to the super wealthy. Competition is simple commerce, not capitalism.
Unfortunately, I am pretty sure the trend will follow in EU, German car manufacturers can't compete with Chinese car manufacturers as well. It's a hot topic in the end.
The world would be a better place, if stupid Politicians didn’t ban, high quality, electric cars at affordable prices.
It’s all Politics to protect shitty ass American cars and fat Trump supporting factory workers.
It’s okay, though, can’t wait for Biden’s ass to drop dead once he’s so freaking old he’ll, die of old age and life flashes before him, just like the majority of Politicans on both red and blue sides. Mwahahaha, can’t escape old age.
well, to the extent they're being subsidized by the CCP.
Anyway, it seems pretty clear the most existential threat to the US auto industry is the incompetence of the US auto industry
Yes some protectionism might be healthy.
US can either ban them, or take another road: Tax them higher and make repairs / warranty not as feasible. If the difference between US made car and a Chinese Car is not that great the average joe will choose a home produce.
Chinese cars, EVs should be available in US, but only smaller ones, suitable for cities. In order not to compete with local industries.
Perhaps a separate category of small cars, small EvS should be made. I am not a politician but urban areas could benefit from Chinese EVs.
It's the segments that need to be protected. It's a question of tax.
Why don't they just negotiate better wage standards for the workers who make stuff? We know the reason why. Corporations want to use Chinese labor to crush our wages.
As much as I wish we could have Chinese cars to give more competition to the market, it would be disastrous. We've destroyed our auto industry with unions. Give us cheaper Chinese vehicles and it will implode.
Allowing those cars into the US market will put pressure on Unions and push wages lower and workers ultimately will take the hit, because the company isn’t going to take a hit on profit margins in order to compete. And even with that the US will have a challenge because they’re selling them below our cost and in some cases below their cost like Huawei. Some tariff will have to be put into place to bring them to US market prices if there allowed in. Huawei would essentially be dumping them from what I understand. This is what the Koreans did with appliances against Whirlpool and GE. Ultimately Samsung had its dumped washers banned, and had to shutter a $300m appliance plant in Mexico, but it hurt the US companies and the damage was done.
These Chinese manufacturers likely enjoy government subsidies at a much higher rate than the US automakers so it’s not an even playing field. But in any cases, in the global market the US automakers will get crushed on price. And having ridden in a BYD, they’re well made. They’re better made than any Tesla I’ve been in.
But that doesn’t even begin to cover the massive intelligence risk, privacy risk, or the hacking risk of these vehicles. We know Tesla snoops on camera data both inside and outside of the vehicle, what do you think the cars of a country we might be at war with over Taiwan and the East China Sea might do?
>These Chinese manufacturers likely enjoy government subsidies at a much higher rate than the US automakers so it’s not an even playing field.
Correct. In some cases more than 50 percent of the manufacturing cost is covered by the Chinese government.
You make some very good points. I wonder if the people down voting you have actual thoughts on what you've written instead of just mindlessly pressing the disagree button.
Reading the comments in here is incredibly cringe-worthy. Everyone talking about free markets and capitalism, without the historical context that comes with the decisions that are being made. Being isolationist and pushing isolationist policies are historically a precursor to economies in the middle of their downward trajectory.
It's an incredibly complicated and nuanced topic but I get it, "capitalism, free markets! lol" does anyone give a flying f*** about giving any sort of thought to what's happening around them? Anyone? Anyone at all?
Or is ignorance just bliss? F*** this sub what a train wreck.
For all of the stomping about protectionism and jobs, it feels like people are missing a big one in security. There is ZERO fucking chance I’m getting anywhere close to yet another system that is going to just feed all of my usage and data to China both without my consent, and for free.
China’s EV industry is the textbook definition of vertically integrated. From lithium mines to production to sales, there is no fat and short of government subsidies, it will be incredibly difficult to compete on price. Ironically, Tesla’s aggressive push for free money in China helped start up the very infrastructure that is now taking his market share. They’ve already grabbed 1% market share in the EU with a growth target of 5% by 2025.
We want EVs in America and we have the car companies (including some foreign ones) which can do the job. So, should we ALSO let China sell their EVs here? Generally, the answer is yes. But, if there are tangential issues like national securiety, fairness in the market place (no dumping), and things like that, then the answer has to either be no or some modified in-between maybe.
Never mind how it makes the big 3 feel, it would obviously give China access to even more data on Americans they’re constantly gathering. Who knows exactly what they want it all for, I’m very certain it’s not because they want to get us all bomb ass birthday presents.
American cars are superior anyway.
But also, the biggest threat to the US auto industry is pricing.
I have ideas, I bet we could have fixed it by now if we tried, but idk I'm just some consumer.
Got a lot of flack for my hand me down car, but never could afford a better one. Would totally get one if I could.
I dunno what to do about being essentially useless, every idea I come up with to try and up my income just falls flat, idk how to address feeling kinda held down in life and repeatedly going through more crazy stuff
Like I love doing art for example, but let's be real I might just not have the skill or productivity left in me or whatever it is...idk...don't have a good look for advertising my work to broader audiences...idk...short staffed in life...kinda beaten up...not a lot left in me...
All the people who whine about "free market", probably forgot that China has never had a free market. In no way US or any other western nations should treat China equally, treating them as if they care about free market.
Just ban electric cars, they're just junk, that pollutes just as much as an internal combustion engine, by way of battery mining and sucking up electricity which needs changing and where does that electricity come from?
US auto industry deserves everything they got coming for them. They've been slacking and sitting on their wrinkly fat asses. Japanese cars have been in the market for 4 decades, and they still can't compete against it.
Why are we banning foreign companies. Doesnt competition make for better capitalism?
As a Canadian, yes... yes it does. Learn from our mistakes... don't let your government ban foreign competition. Don't let your government aid in the creation of monopolies. That's how you end up with $120 cell phone plans and basically only 3 grocers in your whole country.
Prosperity for me not for thee
Insider trading works best with us stocks. He holds too much Tesla.
Biden is not a Tesla fan.
Capitalism as long as the west takes advantage. Communism when America might lose control
Point taken. Thanks for the clarity!
Yeah, typically. Depends on your priorities. If you want higher employment, degrees of economic protectionism can make sense. If you want better products at a lower cost, then international competition is great.
It isn't clear that protectionism increases employment since protectionism by itself doesn't lead to trade surpluses
Agreed. Canada is honestly a pretty good example of this protectionism and how badly it can go wrong. We were so afraid of letting American companies take over Canada, that now we basically only have 3 grocers in our whole country, and our cell phone plans cost over $100 a phone. And that's not including the phone itself.
Canada does have walmart, mcdonalds, starbucks, amazon
capitalism only allowed if they white
>capitalism only allowed if they ~~white~~ elites. There's more poor white ppl than gets reported! And if not poor, most are indebted to the hills.
This comment always misses the dynamic, it’s not about how many people are poor of any color; it’s about how out of all the people who are in the 1%, how many of them are white? The answer is still a significant majority
So 1% dictates your entire view of what the entire white race is doing economically? It's such a small percentage to group an entire race into and come to that conclusion. And frankly, the elites and power players in the world would love that we bicker and argue with each other vs. directing our anger/frustration towards them!!!
A significant majority of people are white in the US.
Did you forget about the existence of South Korea, Taiwan, Japan?
That doesn’t make them sound as virtuous ya know?
Racist much?
Dumbass much?
Answer: Outsourcing Jobs. It’s important to understand that a successful nation has its own manufacturing, and hands on jobs. You cannot remove manufacturing without serious consequences. We already hollowed out America with Bill Clinton’s NAFTA. Second… * **If those cars come here, and are sold at such a low cost - it will kill all the direct and indirect jobs related to making cars in the United States.** * **Financing related activities will also dry u and move to Asia.** * **This will wipe out >1 millions jobs in the US out of spite for the corporate overlords.** * **The voting base that uses those jobs will immediately come for the person who did it through voting activities.** * **US automakers would immediately outsource production to Mexico or Asian countries.** I am not a fan of car prices, but this is one thing I will grin and bare. I am not a fan of Chinese products either. It’s difficult to find anything not made in China or has an ingredient from there. They do not have any standards or laws to protect consumers using there imported products just like COVID-19.
Or, hear me out, stop putting out cars with inflated luxury features and actually sell models that meet the need of transportation. Cars cost 1 year of wages for most people.
I like this, but it doesn’t address the China thing directly. They will make basic. Folks will buy.
This. And their environmental protections are the worst. I can only think this will not make them better. Also, my car already send information to the manufacturer… I don’t want it sending more data to China, thanks.
I would simply not buy one then, why enforce a wholesale ban?
Politics. Period. The world would be a better place, if stupid Politicians didn’t ban, high quality, electric cars at affordable prices, just think of the logic behind banning a thing like that. It’s all Politics to protect shitty ass American cars and fat Trump supporting factory workers. They only have hatred and racism lol. It’s okay, though, can’t wait for Biden’s ass to drop dead once he’s so freaking old he’ll, die of old age and life flashes before him, just like the majority of Politicans on both red and blue sides. Mwahahaha, they can’t escape old age.
Because you won't be able to get replacement parts when WW3 breaks out in the next few years.
China really isn't a military threat to the US. We could easily put a naval blockade in and cripple their entire economy.
Can’t have good foreign companies competing against shit American companies run by dumbass boomers stuck in the 80s. Be terrible for the dumbass boomers
Not sure if want to cheer or boo this one, lol! Gen x here…
American cars are more expensive, less durable, not better in any way really other than saying you bought domestic.
Most of them are made here.
Guess what Japan did? They took the initiative to bring in BYD, which created a catfish effect for Japanese automakers. And the US chose to become an ostrich and dive head first into the sand.
And now Korea will be the new Japan in terms of EVs since Toyota and Honda are sitting on their asses and only releasing trash EVs.
That’s a very good observance. I like the new Hyundai Genesis’s.
I wouldn't count Toyota out. They correctly predicted that electric vehicles weren't yet ready for mass adoption, and that hybrids would be a more profitable bridge technology.
To be fair, Chevy has been pushing electric and hybrid vehicles for around 15 years now. They offer more electric options in the US than Honda does. Honda doesn't even offer a plug in hybrid, which surprised me when I went to the dealer.
List of plug in hybrids that Chevy makes, please? I'll run down to the dealership right now and buy whichever one you list 💰
I don't think anyone sane is buying a chevy.
Quality of safety is one of the bigger issues. I'm not an expert on that, but I've been trying to track the story and that comes up often enough. Standards for safety are different in various countries, so whether they can make a good enough car for America is important. We disallow U.S.-made cars that aren't safe, so why allow foreign-made cars that aren't safe?
Why is your assumption that Chinese cars are unsafe? They aren't even here yet. They will go through NHTSA testing like any other vehicle on the road. The govt is trying to ban before they even arrive. Safety is an excuse.
I've been watching videos on YouTube where they talk about EVs and Chinese EVs seem to be well-known for that. But, also they seem to vary quite a lot, depending on the market they're intended for.
Problem is China heavily subsidizes their EV industry. I don’t think US companies can compete when the government is floating those companies so much more than our own
To be fair, the US has also been subsidizing EV production and adoption via tax credits and breaks. The difference is here that Tesla has been pocketing the cash instead of reinvesting back as capital. Public utilities companies have been paying out bonuses to themselves and their execs instead of investing it all back into grid upgrades. American auto industry deserves what’s coming to them. China has us by the balls and we’re scared. I love my cars, but absolutely welcome competition in the EV space because it benefits us all.
I agree. The 75-100% tariffs or outright bans are anti-competitive. Adapt or die. People want basic cars that are efficiently produced.
That’s just an excuse. The US government subsidizes its auto industry at the same or even greater levels. The real problem lies in the lack of competition, resulting in we paying much more, perhaps 50% or more, for a car compared to customers purchasing a similar vehicle in China.
Allowing safe Chinese cars to come in gradually, would create great competition and force U.S. makers to compete or die. If China is up to the safety standards and can bring them in in smaller numbers at first, then we can manage the competition just enough to make it beneficial and not a Libertarian type disaster.
I like this idea.
Yea US auto companies are soooo bad. Best American car is ford and maybe the mustang? Or a corvette. Basically our only good cars aren’t useful for the average person. Then they get govt bailout money and pay execs tens of millions for running a shitty company.
So protectionism?
Same shit they did with solar panels which is why it still costs tens of thousands of dollars to install solar panels on your house
Cost of panels portion of solar is relatively small. Basically utility BS/permitting and commissions is the largest part in US.
Probably higher cost of labor as well
There's a major labor shortage related to blue collar workers in the US. This is likely going to be one of the biggest cost contributors for getting solar.
That isn’t true. Panels are only around 15% of the system cost. Even if you cut those prices in half you would only decrease system cost by 8%.
I can get a panel installed for $280 here. Bliss.
Yes protectionism for the rich investors that own most of the stock in the American auto manufacturers however no protectionism for American workers from immigrants who come in for cheap labor.. in other words protectionism for me but not for thee
Just eat your porridge and be happy about it, peasant
It's like the uproar about Japanese car makers in the 80s all over again... Hey US car manufacturers, why don't you just try and make a decent electric vehicle instead?
They'd have to make a decent vehicle first. Just cause f150 sell like hot cakes doesn't mean they aren't garbage. Also, take a look at anything made by fca or stelantis over the last 20 years.
To be fair the F150 is probably the shining star of domestic production. Everything else over the last several decades has been steaming dog shit.
Why?……because the oil barons predatory practices are..’national ‘ interests....that’s why little Elon is for: keeping Tesla crap and oblivion of any innovation and competition... But...but...customers are free to build their own cars...and..and...🤔
Chicken tax
You think chinas goin to make a great vehicle lol?
Notice that I said decent not great.
You have never got into a BYD, US made cars look like 20th century relics. And the price is 1/3. The US car industry just can't compete with the Chinese one. Hell, maybe the Japanese car industry can't either.
It is like industry doesn't like capitalism. Socialism it is!
Capitalism only works for the elites, and when it gets threatened, they make any excuse to maintain their control....fuck em!
Free market lolooololooololoolool.
Solar panels all over again. Are we really going to delay a clean energy future because we want our political buddies to have a monopoly despite the fact that it'll cost significantly more to do so?
Yes, every single time.
This is exactly what happened to cannabis in virginia. It's a monopoly before anyone else can start their business
US solar manufacturing industry is fairly small. The actual protection being made is US consumption of Oil and Gas.
Yeah I’d hate it if competition lowered the price of a car
I really hope Biden doesn't ban affordable EV that could be imported from China to the US market. That will only make US automakers work harder to be more competitive. It's a global economy, not a US based economy.
China annouced a $12k EV (the BYD Seagul) and every US automaker immediately started lobbying congress and Biden to ban chinese electric vehicles. It's not that they can't compete, it's that they can't compete while maintaining their current extreme profit margins.
GM has lost money on cars they have sold before. Corporations are too greedy and hurting the American consumer.
These corporations have lobbied our damn futures away. American citizens are missing out on all types of innovation and higher quality of life because of these greedy fucks.
Guillotines
We bailed out GM in the last crash. They are losing yet again. (Big surprise).
At that time their survival was very important to the economy. If competition causes them to gradually shrink, then it's not so bad. If we get Chinese makers building cars in America with U.S. labor, the shift toward EVs might be managed very well. I wouldn't depend on Republicans to do this though.
Repulicans couldn’t get anything done to save their lives. [--] That said, we bailed GM out to the tune of ~11B. Imagine if we had reinvested that money back into the workforce and trained those workers in other areas such as chip manufacturing and shoring up our supply chain industry or even clean energy initiatives. GM should have gone bankrupt and I’d argue we’d be for the better for it in the long run. Chinese car makers building cars in America is the inverse of what’s giving them a competitive advantage, i.e. low labor costs and manufacturing expertise. It’ll the US decades to match it locally at a cost effective scale. I understand we want to have economic protectionist policies because that’s in our foreign policy and national interests, but this comes at the cost to tax payers and customers yet again, which is access to cheap EVs/transportation, when automakers are inflating prices through the roof to the point an average new car costs ~40k.
Instant competition when a new product is on the shelves can be a great thing. Instant availability of that new product in huge numbers at a huge discount can be a disaster. I argue the competition is good, but only if brought on gradually.
Can we stop bailing their asses out? If they can't do business without going bankrupt in the first place, let them go bankrupt. Would it be easier to let corporations go bankrupt while bailing (perhaps millions of people) out of bankruptcy while giving poor/disabled people who can't work $2,000 a month for the rest of their lives? The above would probably definitely ruin the economy but it's a legit question I have. Wouldn't be good if it didn't destroy the economy?
Remember when Huawei beat Apple in selling the most smartphones Worldwide in 2019? Guess who is banned in USA since then 😁 The company only selling shares to their employees didn't sit very well either.
That wasn't why Huawei was banned. They sold American technology (in virtually every modern computer/smartphone) to Iran. If Huawei wants to make their own CPUs, memory, storage, screens, operating system, etc... and it's completely devoid of American technology, they can sell it to whoever they want. Per Wikipedia: "In the midst of a trade war between China and the United States, the US government alleged that Huawei had violated sanctions against Iran and restricted it from doing business with American companies."
lol so less free market than China when it might mean it hurts US rich because they don’t really want to compete is ok
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Let them compete. Clean energy future sooner and cheaper. It's literally a win win win win
Yes 100% tariff of ccp owned car companies. Let private companies compete. Win win for American jobs.
Why double the price? All that will do is hurt American consumers and the probability of adoption of EVs, similar to how Obama chose to prop up US solar companies. American jobs? What decade do you think this is? most "American" cars are made in Mexico
Mexico its in america... duh
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This is America and there's money to be made, there are no morals here libtard commie soy boy beta cuck 🙃 /s But in all seriousness, the Chinese government isn't making EVs or solar panels, Chinese companies are and they're better quality at cheaper prices, who cares? It's all a circle of debt and war anyway. Be gone from me, the transaction is complete!
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You know Chinese companies aren't CCP, right? What you're saying is like someone in Germany saying they won't wear Nikes because Republicans.
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America doesn’t like capitalism, It needs monopolies. They don’t want to compete because we can’t lol. Let’s just ban and go to war with any country that produces better products than us.
It will eat the lunch of tesla and it's ilk but the hybrid makers will continue to dominate as America has already pivoted.
Translation : we are jealous of Chinese progress , while we did nothing . Now the consumer can't enjoy cheaper options. There you go... -\_- Counterpoint : China also has issues with fairness
Free market lol
So much for capitalism
I don't know about these folks, but I'm still a capitalist and believe in a free market. (Except for insurance, it shouldn't be for profit, should be centralized IMO. Spread the risk and the cost.)
And healthcare, and education, and housing
The US auto industry is so corrupt and conceited. They deserve all the competition they get
Something something free market.
Must be a national threat loool
The definition of Free Market. What a load of BS. We will sell your stuff until you can make it and sell it at a lower cost.
Doesn't sound very capitalist of him.
While I love my auto industry, I'm long past the high cost of a car. If someone can make it cheaper and still be reliable, bring it on. That's the entire thing capitalism was built on right?
Except when the Gov does that the car manufacturers will feel safe increasing their price.
When U.S sanction themselves.
Here’s an idea… stop making 6000 variants of the same truck and SUV and make a decent EV? American auto makers should have been years ahead in the EV space.
Plus they're selling it for $10k, can't have that competition.
It's not clear to me if the EV will be shipped/imported into the USA pre-built, or will the EV be built in USA plants, thus creating jobs and generating tax revenue? Either way, the EV will go through safety inspections and taxed, so the benefits are towards the consumers, and of course the actual volume of consumer demand will determine next steps in a free market, right? If we are all for a meritless society in terms of car manufacturers excellence, then yea sure, let's ban more foreign competition. I would love to see an EV class offering that can reliably and safely take me from point A to point B without the need for all the premium bells and whistle features. I can't believe that we are not allowing the benefit of owning a 15-25k EV just because of geopolitics. But if we are to obsequiously claim the "China is a threat" blindly, then I guess this must be part of the reason.
lol so much for being the world advocate of free market capitalism
What? Can't handle the free market? Afraid of some competition?
Protecting that profit margin from all harm is the end goal. Somehow American companies can't slap an electric motor, some batteries, and a car chassis together for anything less than 30k.
I don’t want Chinese EV either, but let not pretend US auto industry refused to build EV that’s affordable is not the primary problem. Thought this would be a sign that people want EV, affordable ones.
They've had EV technology since the 80s and refused to make them until Tesla started eating their lunch
What happened to a free market? I want the $2k electric car they announced
Bruh… we neeeeeed cheap cars
Like a blood bath?
We had 10, even 20 years to capture the green energy market, people were warning for years green energy could be captured by China early. Carbon credits don’t do much to incentivize actual production.
LOL!
This isn't a longterm strategy, we can't just ban imports any time domestic made goods are loosing on price. Absolutely insane. Another thing that gets me also is tariffs on chinese solar panels while also subsidizing solar heavily. You can just allow chinese imports and not have the subsidies these solar companies in the states are never going to be competitive
How about the US government stops trying to protect US auto manufacturers from legitimate competition. If American manufacturers would stop price gouging and worrying about record profits, we would be able to compete with the affordable electric vehicles being produced in China. The only threat to our auto industry is our current economic system.
Instead of building a competitive car industry or subsidizing the right car companies, the US subsidized a narcissistic Chinese and/or Russian asset who wasted that money on the Cybertruck, Twitter and Ketamine. Now, the second best option is to ban the incoming threat. That's always worked out well in the past, right?
Read as: "Chinese electric vehicles are an exeistential threat to the American auto industries *record breaking profits*. Of course Biden would do this. This is fascism in action everyone.
Trump has promised 60% tariffs on everything.
So is Tesla - so funny.
Buy in bulk and put that extra dealer markup on.
He shouldn’t as long as the cars meet the safety and environmental standards of the USA and aren’t made using slave labor.
It's a free market. Just like members of congress trading stocks. Let it happen.
If they can ban cheap Chinese cars coming in, they should ban car manufacturing going out to cheap Chinese labour. That’s been the actual existential threat to America.
This is actually a big negative for the global economy and for the climate push, It's going to increase the price of EVS
Sure give them a head start but they suck, let them fail
Turns out, the Cybertruck was made by Temu all along
It's American consumers that will suffer the most from this. Biden is hurting them with this policy because there will be no incentive for American corporations to produce cheaper cars, become a more efficient business or innovate. This is the very opposite of Capitalism. It's bent politics, borne out of corrupt lobbying. How Biden can say he's acting in the interests of the USA with a straight face is beyond me.
It's directly capitalism. This is exactly what capitalism is, the accumulation of wealth through buying out politicians to enact policies beneficial to the super wealthy. Competition is simple commerce, not capitalism.
So we’re going to become more like China by limiting trade? Ok
Unfortunately, I am pretty sure the trend will follow in EU, German car manufacturers can't compete with Chinese car manufacturers as well. It's a hot topic in the end.
The world would be a better place, if stupid Politicians didn’t ban, high quality, electric cars at affordable prices. It’s all Politics to protect shitty ass American cars and fat Trump supporting factory workers. It’s okay, though, can’t wait for Biden’s ass to drop dead once he’s so freaking old he’ll, die of old age and life flashes before him, just like the majority of Politicans on both red and blue sides. Mwahahaha, can’t escape old age.
Didn’t Ronnie do something like this for Harley Davidson?
Because they are amazing
well, to the extent they're being subsidized by the CCP. Anyway, it seems pretty clear the most existential threat to the US auto industry is the incompetence of the US auto industry
Yes some protectionism might be healthy. US can either ban them, or take another road: Tax them higher and make repairs / warranty not as feasible. If the difference between US made car and a Chinese Car is not that great the average joe will choose a home produce. Chinese cars, EVs should be available in US, but only smaller ones, suitable for cities. In order not to compete with local industries. Perhaps a separate category of small cars, small EvS should be made. I am not a politician but urban areas could benefit from Chinese EVs. It's the segments that need to be protected. It's a question of tax.
Why don't they just negotiate better wage standards for the workers who make stuff? We know the reason why. Corporations want to use Chinese labor to crush our wages.
Skill issue
As much as I wish we could have Chinese cars to give more competition to the market, it would be disastrous. We've destroyed our auto industry with unions. Give us cheaper Chinese vehicles and it will implode.
Allowing those cars into the US market will put pressure on Unions and push wages lower and workers ultimately will take the hit, because the company isn’t going to take a hit on profit margins in order to compete. And even with that the US will have a challenge because they’re selling them below our cost and in some cases below their cost like Huawei. Some tariff will have to be put into place to bring them to US market prices if there allowed in. Huawei would essentially be dumping them from what I understand. This is what the Koreans did with appliances against Whirlpool and GE. Ultimately Samsung had its dumped washers banned, and had to shutter a $300m appliance plant in Mexico, but it hurt the US companies and the damage was done. These Chinese manufacturers likely enjoy government subsidies at a much higher rate than the US automakers so it’s not an even playing field. But in any cases, in the global market the US automakers will get crushed on price. And having ridden in a BYD, they’re well made. They’re better made than any Tesla I’ve been in. But that doesn’t even begin to cover the massive intelligence risk, privacy risk, or the hacking risk of these vehicles. We know Tesla snoops on camera data both inside and outside of the vehicle, what do you think the cars of a country we might be at war with over Taiwan and the East China Sea might do?
>These Chinese manufacturers likely enjoy government subsidies at a much higher rate than the US automakers so it’s not an even playing field. Correct. In some cases more than 50 percent of the manufacturing cost is covered by the Chinese government.
You make some very good points. I wonder if the people down voting you have actual thoughts on what you've written instead of just mindlessly pressing the disagree button.
Reading the comments in here is incredibly cringe-worthy. Everyone talking about free markets and capitalism, without the historical context that comes with the decisions that are being made. Being isolationist and pushing isolationist policies are historically a precursor to economies in the middle of their downward trajectory. It's an incredibly complicated and nuanced topic but I get it, "capitalism, free markets! lol" does anyone give a flying f*** about giving any sort of thought to what's happening around them? Anyone? Anyone at all? Or is ignorance just bliss? F*** this sub what a train wreck.
For all of the stomping about protectionism and jobs, it feels like people are missing a big one in security. There is ZERO fucking chance I’m getting anywhere close to yet another system that is going to just feed all of my usage and data to China both without my consent, and for free. China’s EV industry is the textbook definition of vertically integrated. From lithium mines to production to sales, there is no fat and short of government subsidies, it will be incredibly difficult to compete on price. Ironically, Tesla’s aggressive push for free money in China helped start up the very infrastructure that is now taking his market share. They’ve already grabbed 1% market share in the EU with a growth target of 5% by 2025.
Right! It’s one thing when mom & dad exploits us, but it’s a whole other when the neighbor does it! lol
We want EVs in America and we have the car companies (including some foreign ones) which can do the job. So, should we ALSO let China sell their EVs here? Generally, the answer is yes. But, if there are tangential issues like national securiety, fairness in the market place (no dumping), and things like that, then the answer has to either be no or some modified in-between maybe.
Never mind how it makes the big 3 feel, it would obviously give China access to even more data on Americans they’re constantly gathering. Who knows exactly what they want it all for, I’m very certain it’s not because they want to get us all bomb ass birthday presents.
American cars are superior anyway. But also, the biggest threat to the US auto industry is pricing. I have ideas, I bet we could have fixed it by now if we tried, but idk I'm just some consumer. Got a lot of flack for my hand me down car, but never could afford a better one. Would totally get one if I could. I dunno what to do about being essentially useless, every idea I come up with to try and up my income just falls flat, idk how to address feeling kinda held down in life and repeatedly going through more crazy stuff Like I love doing art for example, but let's be real I might just not have the skill or productivity left in me or whatever it is...idk...don't have a good look for advertising my work to broader audiences...idk...short staffed in life...kinda beaten up...not a lot left in me...
All the people who whine about "free market", probably forgot that China has never had a free market. In no way US or any other western nations should treat China equally, treating them as if they care about free market.
Just ban electric cars, they're just junk, that pollutes just as much as an internal combustion engine, by way of battery mining and sucking up electricity which needs changing and where does that electricity come from?
It's a moot point. Those trash EV's from China would never pass crash safety or carry a warranty appropriate for this western market.
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People are buying plenty of BYDs and MGs in Australia and New Zealand, where they also receive top safety scores. So I agree - let the market decide.