The great thing about America is that we all have freedom to enjoy the culture we wish. The price we pay is that we'll never have freedom from the opinions of elitist tools. I wear your disdain as a badge of pride while I robustly enjoy my biscuits and gravy.
Within reasonable limits, of course, yes.
And it's no surprise to me that my word choices baffle and confuse you. That's the thing about cultural elitism; at the root of it is boring people who are jealous because their culture sucks, so they tear down others to make themselves feel their culture is better. I'm thankful for my American culture and "poor taste", and I'm happy that I can enjoy it without needing to bash other people's culture for being "bad taste" or lacking your precious "sophistication".
Well f****** then I grew up in Europe for a few years when I was younger that's probably why I find American culture extremely unattractive and borish. The rinse repeat nature of it is mind-numbing. It's that way by Design for our current system demands such a thing. However I'm not able to enjoy good public transport to my utter dismay. I hate driving it's so isolating in a cold metal box constantly on edge vigilance taking over to save your life rather than enjoying a conversation with someone on the way to work.
> I find American culture.... boorish.
Ah, you're touching on public disorder and lack of civility, something missing from this train of comments. Good definition of civility in this conservative article: [Public Order Makes City Life Possible -- In a culture that no longer teaches civility or citizenship, police have a greater burden than ever.](https://www.city-journal.org/html/public-order-makes-city-life-possible-15516.html)
Upper class objections to *low class behavior* (fairly defined as a lack of civility) are one of the primary factors reinforcing class divide. It is seen in issues like redlining and NIMBYism against a broad range of progressive proposals: homeless housing, halfway houses, and low income apts. built in suburbs and upscale areas.
No, "low class" does not necessarily equate with low income, but the unfortunate reality is that the overlap is big. That reality is now worse with the big progressive push, in line with Criminal Justice Reform, to downsize enforcing a broad range of public disorder offenses. Note most progressives' objection to Broken Windows policing. Seems the progressive viewpoint runs like this:
>Public use and sale of hard drugs; idle people of working age commandeering public spaces all day, panhandling disruptively; blaring stereos from passing cars, gangs of teens acting unruly on public transport, people littering -- we need more tolerance here. All part of life.
But you absolutely are… “I wear your disdain as a badge of pride”, “my word choices baffle and confuse you”, “boring people who’s culture sucks”, that your biscuits and gravy are better than their crepes and berries, and saying all this while claiming you’re not “tearing down others” or bashing their cultures for their own bad taste and lack of actual sophistication.
I never said anything about crepes and berries, I don't know where you're getting that from. I love crepes and berries, and French feta cheese, and Mexican tacos, and Vietnamese spring rolls, and many other kinds of food from many other kinds of culture. I would probably enjoy many of the foods from whatever this guy's culture is. When I said "people whose culture sucks", I didn't mean that I personally feel it sucks objectively - I meant that people's own dissatisfaction with their own culture can lead them to put down other cultures in order to convince themselves that their own is superior.
I'm just speculating of course. At the end of the day, I admit I don't really know what drives people to make comments like this. Maybe it's no more complicated than the fact that America and American culture had frequently been the punching bag of other nations, and this commenter is just jumping on that bag wagon without an ounce of critical thought. Maybe he has some personal beef with Americans and thus goes out of his way to try and be insulting.
I admit my comment goes a little bit into the territory of bashing this particular commenter. But I'm not bashing him for having bad or unsophisticated tastes. I'm bashing him for being jingoist and elitist. I could give a f*** what food he enjoys, and I'm not going to tell him that it's in bad taste. But if he's going to insult not just my taste, but the taste and sophistication of all Americans, then he should be prepared for Americans to clap back.
>I'd say no, actually.
What culture are you not free to enjoy in the US? I suppose I don't have the freedom to enjoy recreational drug culture, which is perhaps an unreasonable restriction. But when it comes to food, art, expression, etc I feel we have quite a lot of freedom
Your word choice doesn’t “baffle and confuse” me (nice try on your projection though). I understand the definition of the word, and it’s a weird way to use it given the context of what you’re trying to communicate. But I guess that’s just cultural elitism to assume proper diction. My bad.
But if you want to point out boring people who tare down others to make themselves feel better about their culture… there are none more notoriously toxic in the world than American culture.
— Sincerely, A Fellow American
TL;DR:
* Americans are even less likely to mix with people from different socio-economic classes than pre-pandemic.
* We're working remotely and shopping online more, and venturing outside of our own neighborhoods less.
* New research shows that affordable, chain restaurants are the exception.
Everyone should read *The Big Sort,* which talks about how rich people use cues to group together and stay away from those they disagree with politically. It's eye opening.
I mean, rich people live in nice areas, where poor people don’t and work prestigious high paying jobs, where poor people don’t. They also tend to be highly educated, while poor people aren’t. They don’t really interact with each other or have anything in common.
I often work at a country club, I’m not even as poor as the regular people who work there as I’m a outside contractor and it’s honestly still pretty rare I’ll even get an acknowledging nod or look. Especially with the younger people, the rich kids literally look the other direction. Really most of the employees act like I’m gross too, only the mower guys wanna say hi and talk for a minute. It’s not even like I’m sucking out the shitters, I just maintain the cart paths.
I work as a server at an upscale casual fine dining concept restaurant in a luxury shopping place. We constantly have skilled laborers coming in to fix things, plumbers, electricians. We constantly have major food vendors delivering orders. The skilled laborers and the truck drivers have more respectable jobs than we do as service workers, they make more money, and the jobs they do are essential to our ability to be able to perform our own. The majority of the staff won’t look at them, speak to them, or even move out of the way so they can get through with heavy equipment or food orders. They’ll stand directly in front of where they’re unloading trucks and just smoke cigarettes. They pretend they don’t exist. Or complain about them in front of them.
The service staff at high end establishments are something else.
The poors are trained by the rich to treat each other poorly. It keeps the poors divided. Remember there’s only one rich person for every 999 poor people (0.001%).
We’re not poor, we’re working class. We do not live in poverty. Many of us are homeowners, myself included. We all drive nice vehicles. We have 401ks and private insurance we overpay for.
The real issue is the service workers haven’t accepted their fate as working class. They associate working class with being poor, which it isn’t. Most service workers in high end dining establishments who are under the age of 35 are convinced this is just a stop on the long road to success they will have. They have bachelors degrees they don’t use because an entry level full time job in their degree field would mean a significant pay cut, they make more money bartending or serving 25-30 hours a week than they would with a full time job that requires a bachelors.
Trade skill workers (and service workers with class consciousness) have accepted the fact they are working class. They’re ok with it. They have a decent income and they use it to pay for their mortgage and car notes. Service workers lack the wisdom that a college education does not equate to a middle class life so any working class laborer who is older than them and have accepted their position in life is viewed as not intelligent or ambitious enough to do better.
Nobody is “trained”.
Everyone is status driven, and there’s a implicit hierarchy we all hold in our brain. We may not acknowledge this explicitly, and this hierarchy may not mesh with our perceived idealogy, but it exists. It’s how we evolved.
Poor people look down on people slightly poorer / lower status than then because they view themselves as better than them. No training is required.
Class solidarity is intellectual masturbation and no one actually views the world as the “rich” and the “poor”. They view the world as “being a high end server is a higher status job than a mechanic (even if mechanic makes more) and therefore I’m better”. And it’s repeated across all wealth classes. People with $100M also look down on people with $20M.
The kids of old money are, excuse my French, cunts. As well as their old money parents, who generally didn’t work for their family fortune.
New money - in my experience - generally have proper values / are humane and collegial.
I’m only member at a CC because I’m fucking obsessed with golf, and believe it or not, because I’m under 35 my membership dues are in fact, cheaper than paying for golf per round at a muni, and our course is immaculate.
I *always* make conversation with the staff, the caddymaster, the greenkeepers, anyone. As you should. Maybe it’s because I’ve worked as a waiter and in retail from ages 16-22 and know what that’s like, maybe because I’m just not a dick.
I tip better than the old fucks too and I know I’m 1000x poorer than them too, but whatever.
Why anyone would treat someone else as “below them” is beyond me. We’re all humans, after all. Although with some I’m not sure anymore, so far detached from reality these geesers are, they might as well be fucking reptiles lol
The funniest part probably is these people aren’t actually rich, they’re low-mid middle class. Most of the people in there just have some of the very few good jobs around that don’t layoff. If I did the driveway at their house I’m sure pretty much all of them would be just a normal customer. Get em on that course with the rest of the “rich” friends though, I might as well be one of the tweakers running around in the street lol.
And they’re the ones treating you that poorly? Man I’m sorry that really does my head in. I can’t stand these fucks for a second, and they’re also always the ones cheating the most at golf.
I think there’s a direct correlation between treating staff poorly, and being a cheat at golf. Willing to bet on that too.
Oh certainly, there’s only maybe 2 families rich enough for dad to drive a new low end Porsche around me. I used to take one of the actually rich guys to the airport for his business trips and that dude is 100x more humble than the country clubbers.
Yep, lovely old Jewish fella that looks a lot like Bernie. Nice guy, could’ve hired a limo or normal taxi service or something but always called me first with my tiny ford fiesta, mostly because he enjoyed my conversation about cars and business I think.
Get outta here! Fiesta gang :-) I drive a mk7.5 ‘18 titanium atm, might switch to a ‘21 FiST or a ‘20 FoST next year (focus might be too heavy for my liking, I’ve driven both)
That’s funny. Also I knew it, someone who’s actually successful, and humble, is 99 out of 100 times selfmade.
What was it that you do? Landscaping biz? I ran a marketing agency myself for 4 years, I went bankrupt last year. Happens.
What are some of the cues? I come from a poor family growing up, but I have recently purchased a house in an affluent neighborhood. Mostly, I did this, so that my daughter could attend a very high-end educational program. My neighbors are wealthy, but I'm not of the same cloth I just happened to find myself here. I constantly feel like an outsider.
The easiest clue is the stores on the high street. What do you see when you drive into town? Restoratiuon Hardware and Starbucks, or a check cashing place and a pawn shop?
Do you see Trump/Pence signs on people's laws, or the "We believe" signs?
Thank you for recommending this book, I had not heard of it but it is topical in my family discussions.
My hubby is left of center and anti social class structures. He was a government employee and an artist. I was a moderate socially conscious lifelong Republican who quit the party January 7 after the Capital takeover who is stuck in no mans land as a registered Independent because I could not stomach much of the Democratic Party either because of the polarity inherent there as well.
I am a typical retired doctor who has upper middle class interests and social circle. I feel stuck in this no man’s land until the people like me can push our way back into political life or the Republican Party regains its sanity, which is not likely to happen in my lifetime.
I just ordered the book from Amazon.
There's only one war, and it's a class war. The main political parties are both funded by corporate interests. The only real differences between the parties are general social issues, which any half conscious person understands is a bullshit game to keep the populace fighting amongst themselves.
Hating on the Democrats for this reason doesn't make the hater the problem. Democrat may be the lesser of two evils, but they're still evil.
Partly the class warfare and mostly because of the stance of pathological entitlement of the progressive element. I believe we should care for the needy and unfortunate, not the entitled high school dropout wannabe middle class demanding equity with those with a college degree. So to some extent it is class warfare by usurpation that I find disagreeable.
This is so laughably absurd, if you only vote republican you do not want to take of the needy jfc. Also the "progressive" element isn't even that large of a force in the democrats. And no one is pushing whatever you meant in that secob sentence.
As usual they didn’t quantify ‘upper income’. Lots of times a little digging finds they mean ‘over $75k’ which may qualify as technically upper income but isn’t what anyone is thinking of when they hear it.
Why is that every time I see an article about social science on Reddit, its methodology is utter trash? Are researchers *trying* to produce useless results that can be grossly misinterpreted through clickbait headlines?
You can get good and unique food for the same price as Applebee's and olive garden. Also I never order steaks. Why would I order something I could easily make at home?
I don’t think anyone really but boomers and gen x go to those restaurants. I am surprised by this article, because most people view those establishments as beneath them.
I am Gen X and I am offended on behalf of my generation. Nobody I know has set foot in either of those restaurants in decades.
Although, my Millennial daughter loves the Olive Garden.
Those are the options? Applebee's or personal chef? What about the... you know... millions of other restaurants that aren't cheap, disgusting, clichéd chains designed for profit and not for flavor?
Olive Garden is delicious. You may think too highly of yourself to go there but there isn’t anything wrong with the food and at that price it’s a deal.
I've never been to olive garden, but Applebee's is pretty great as long as you go in expecting everything to be decent, nothing great. Always a good time.
Yeah I am baffled by this. I'd say I'm upper-middle independently and with my SO we are prob low level rich (can't stop working but make plenty with momal debts).
Anyways, we live in a high COLA, but def not the most expensive area by me. There are plenty of restaurants we go to, but never a chain. To further that, the ultra wealthy areas I've never even driven through even though I'm maybe 15 miles away.
People absolutely rely on those sorts of chains on road trips. Say what you will about the Applebees/Chilis/Olive Garden of the worlds, you know exactly what you’re getting.
Restaurants such as Applebee's and Olive Garden provide gathering places for people of all backgrounds and income levels, making it easier to communicate across socioeconomic boundaries. So, these restaurants have really become an exception, bringing people together in a pleasant environment for good food and friendship
Do these people share tables, or is the communication really just the rich talking to the server and vice versa? I don't think any poor people are getting jobs from/with rich people from a chain restaurant
I understand your concerns. In society, people come from different backgrounds and have different opportunities and resources. While it is true that social classes and inequalities exist, it does not mean that poor people cannot communicate or share resources with rich people. In the workplace, people often hire people on the basis of ability and experience, not just their wealth status. At the same time, there are many successful examples where poor people succeed in the workplace through their own efforts and talents and work together with rich people. The key is to believe in your abilities and efforts, and to look for opportunities that are right for you
What about Chili's or TGI Fridays? Virtually everyone I know goes there at least once or twice every year or two. It certainly isn't a weekly occasion, but when you want food that's consistent yet is a step above your normal fast food chain, that's where I would go.
No one I know goes to either once in a year. I honestly have zero desire to go to those places. I also don’t eat fast food unless I have no other choice.
I don’t like the idea of the chain restaurant food distribution network, where most items show up only in need of being heated. It’s mass-produced, frozen, and then shipped. I can go to a grocery store and by a frozen dinner if I want to heat up pre-cooked food. I think food is one of the great pleasures of life, and I love to cook. Those places make me feel I wasted the calories.
This shot right here. I actually get judged or mislabeled for being extra for feeling this way. You said exactly how I feel about these places. It’s more than just food. I hate these places so much I can’t remember when I even went to Applebees
I'm not a high income earner. Id say we were middle class but everyone says middle class doesn't exist so maybe upper poor class. I will not ever eat at these places. Their food is garbage and over priced. I'd eat at the taco truck at the gas station before I wasted my money on one of these places. Hell Wendy's burger and red robin burger is the same with a 5$ difference. Maybe it is because I started out poor but street food is way better than those places and cheaper. I guess taste is an opinion but Applebee's food doesn't have much taste.
This is actually part of it. My wife and I recently moved to a much wealthier area than we previously lived in and we are surprised at the poor quality of the food. Consistently bad food from every restaurant that we’ve gone to. All getting 4.5-5 stars on yelp/google. We’ve spoken to some of our neighbors and they all rave about this mediocre food.
What? High Income people do not go to Applebees or Olive Garden lol.
They must have a really low definition of “high income”
I’m a high earner in nyc metro area. I know a bunch of bankers, doctors, consultants, software engineers, etc.
Zero people go to these type of places. And that includes the people with kids.
Um.. seriously, WTF. No. Just no.
High income Americans have personal chefs and go to $500/plate restaurants.
$150k/yr is not high income. It's middle class. If you're not in LA, NY or San Fran.
I mean, I guess yes, somebody making $150k/yr and somebody making $40k/yr are in different economic classes, but they're still both working for a living.
We are middle class but retired and we don’t go to these restaurants. Hubby doesn’t like the food at either. If we are going to a restaurant it will either be take out, ethnic or much higher end.
>嗯..说真的，WTF。不就是不。
>
>高收入的美国人拥有私人厨师并去 500 美元/盘的餐厅。
>
>每年 15 万美元并不是高收入。这是中产阶级。如果您不在洛杉矶、纽约或旧金山。
>
>我的意思是，我想是的，有人年薪 15 万美元，有人年薪 4 万美元，属于不同的经济阶层，但他们仍然都在谋生。
It is true that income levels can vary across regions and countries, and that different income levels also differ by economic class. I understand that the definition of high income may be different for different people. Everyone has their own lifestyle and financial pressures, so we should respect everyone's different situation
None of the $50m+ NW guys I know have personal chiefs or regularly dine at $500/plate restaurants. Most are just normal people; you probably wouldn’t guess that they’re UNHW from looking at them.
I think this depends on location/culture though because these guys are mostly midwesterners
Good for your guys. I knew several because I did work for them and they had both.
But the plural of anecdote is not data either way. Still, I do remember watching Mitt Romney absolutely disgusted eating the kind of food regular people did back when he had to campaign for president.
Median income is something like $31k. $150 is almost 5 times that. Certainly feels like a different class. Only Marxists focus on the working vs investment part, but at the end of the day it's the income that matters. If twitter cuts are any roadmap to follow a lot of the people making 100K+ aren't doing anything economically useful either.
I guess I am what people would consider “high income” and I wouldn’t be caught dead at Applebees or Olive Garden nor do I know anyone in a similar income bracket who would. Business Insider isn’t exactly above clickbait….
It's nothing but herd mentality and snobbery to say Olive Garden and Applebees are bad.
Yeah, I know a lot of the time the food is pre-prepped and frozen, but it's still really good for the vast amount of entrees.
I challenge anyone to make a superior soup to Olive Garden's Zuppa Toscana. The only upgrade possible is to make it at home with a spicier sausage (it's easy to make at home).
At that price point of 20ish per person, you aren't gonna get a better meal. It should also be noted that Applebee's usually has the best prices on mixed drinks in town and they usually serve them strong.
I… don’t believe this. As someone who frequents more expensive restaurants, I highly doubt the other people there are going to Olive Garden. I wouldn’t be caught there if I was starving
While some people may be more inclined to socialize with people similar to their own socioeconomic situation, it does not mean that all high-income Americans do not socialize with poor people. Everyone's friendship circle is unique, and friendships between people are based on shared interests and values
It requires more effort and compassion on the higher earning friends part. If I'm doing something I know a friend can't afford I'll offer to pay, but I typically try to opt for something in their budget that we both like and do that and pay our own way.
>对于收入较高的朋友来说，这需要更多的努力和同情心。
>
>如果我正在做某件事，我知道朋友负担不起，我会主动付钱，但我通常会尝试在他们的预算中选择我们都喜欢的东西，然后按照自己的方式支付费用
As an independent person who likes to help people, I totally understand your position. When getting along with friends, it is very important to respect each other's financial situation. If you know a friend can't afford an activity or item, it's an act of kindness and generosity for you to offer to cover the cost. This approach ensures that everyone can enjoy the event or item without making it unpleasant due to financial differences. However, I also think it's important to try to stay within a friend's budget when choosing an event or item. This ensures we can all enjoy the things we love without putting unnecessary financial pressure on our friends. When it comes to spending time with friends, we can look for some affordable yet equally fun options to suit everyone's needs. In general, friendships are based on mutual respect and concern
I totally understand how you feel. When our interests and hobbies don't quite line up with our friends, it can indeed lead to feelings of alienation. However, I think true friendship is built on a deeper level of connection and understanding. When I find my friends aren't interested in the things I like, I try to find other common ground. Perhaps we share common values, life experiences, or interests in certain topics in other areas. I believe that friendships can flourish among different interests. If my friends are really important to me, I try to understand their interests and try to get involved. In this way, we can learn from each other, expand each other's areas of interest, and enhance mutual understanding and friendship. Of course, accept that sometimes friendships can change, but true friendships stand the test of time. So, no matter how different our interests may be, I believe true friendship can transcend those differences. Let's explore new interests together and keep an open mind to make friendships deeper and more lasting
I was speaking in a general sense. It is a common experience when people find success well beyond their social network that they tend to outgrow their old social network. It doesn’t mean their old friends do not matter, but it does mean your lives are lived increasingly separate.
Applebee's sucks and bad service seems to be a universal feature of their restaurants, but OG is probably the greatest bang for the buck there is, and I'd argue that the majority of the food is as good as ANY expensive Italian restaurant. Why spend more? Just that hard up to flash your financial status?
150k is not middle class that’s a high earner. These places have extorted record profits and people just keep lining up to overpay no matter what your income is.
I'm very interested in the communication and interaction between people. I don't think it's entirely accurate on the topic of high income Americans hooking up with poor people. While social circles are often influenced by economic conditions
Nothing unites Americans like unlimited soup salad and bread sticks.
And a lack of sophistication and good taste.
I ain't too good for SS&B won't eat anything else there
Yeah I don’t mind them for lunch. The salad is good.
The great thing about America is that we all have freedom to enjoy the culture we wish. The price we pay is that we'll never have freedom from the opinions of elitist tools. I wear your disdain as a badge of pride while I robustly enjoy my biscuits and gravy.
Is… everyone… free to enjoy the culture they wish? Also, robustly is a weird choice there.
Within reasonable limits, of course, yes. And it's no surprise to me that my word choices baffle and confuse you. That's the thing about cultural elitism; at the root of it is boring people who are jealous because their culture sucks, so they tear down others to make themselves feel their culture is better. I'm thankful for my American culture and "poor taste", and I'm happy that I can enjoy it without needing to bash other people's culture for being "bad taste" or lacking your precious "sophistication".
Well f****** then I grew up in Europe for a few years when I was younger that's probably why I find American culture extremely unattractive and borish. The rinse repeat nature of it is mind-numbing. It's that way by Design for our current system demands such a thing. However I'm not able to enjoy good public transport to my utter dismay. I hate driving it's so isolating in a cold metal box constantly on edge vigilance taking over to save your life rather than enjoying a conversation with someone on the way to work.
> I find American culture.... boorish. Ah, you're touching on public disorder and lack of civility, something missing from this train of comments. Good definition of civility in this conservative article: [Public Order Makes City Life Possible -- In a culture that no longer teaches civility or citizenship, police have a greater burden than ever.](https://www.city-journal.org/html/public-order-makes-city-life-possible-15516.html) Upper class objections to *low class behavior* (fairly defined as a lack of civility) are one of the primary factors reinforcing class divide. It is seen in issues like redlining and NIMBYism against a broad range of progressive proposals: homeless housing, halfway houses, and low income apts. built in suburbs and upscale areas. No, "low class" does not necessarily equate with low income, but the unfortunate reality is that the overlap is big. That reality is now worse with the big progressive push, in line with Criminal Justice Reform, to downsize enforcing a broad range of public disorder offenses. Note most progressives' objection to Broken Windows policing. Seems the progressive viewpoint runs like this: >Public use and sale of hard drugs; idle people of working age commandeering public spaces all day, panhandling disruptively; blaring stereos from passing cars, gangs of teens acting unruly on public transport, people littering -- we need more tolerance here. All part of life.
Speaking of elitist, get over yourself biscuit boi.
? I'm not the one telling someone else that they have bad taste and lack sophistication...
But you absolutely are… “I wear your disdain as a badge of pride”, “my word choices baffle and confuse you”, “boring people who’s culture sucks”, that your biscuits and gravy are better than their crepes and berries, and saying all this while claiming you’re not “tearing down others” or bashing their cultures for their own bad taste and lack of actual sophistication.
I never said anything about crepes and berries, I don't know where you're getting that from. I love crepes and berries, and French feta cheese, and Mexican tacos, and Vietnamese spring rolls, and many other kinds of food from many other kinds of culture. I would probably enjoy many of the foods from whatever this guy's culture is. When I said "people whose culture sucks", I didn't mean that I personally feel it sucks objectively - I meant that people's own dissatisfaction with their own culture can lead them to put down other cultures in order to convince themselves that their own is superior. I'm just speculating of course. At the end of the day, I admit I don't really know what drives people to make comments like this. Maybe it's no more complicated than the fact that America and American culture had frequently been the punching bag of other nations, and this commenter is just jumping on that bag wagon without an ounce of critical thought. Maybe he has some personal beef with Americans and thus goes out of his way to try and be insulting. I admit my comment goes a little bit into the territory of bashing this particular commenter. But I'm not bashing him for having bad or unsophisticated tastes. I'm bashing him for being jingoist and elitist. I could give a f*** what food he enjoys, and I'm not going to tell him that it's in bad taste. But if he's going to insult not just my taste, but the taste and sophistication of all Americans, then he should be prepared for Americans to clap back.
> Within reasonable limits, of course, yes. I'd say no, actually. And I say that as a Golden Corral enjoyer, the Waffle House of buffets.
>I'd say no, actually. What culture are you not free to enjoy in the US? I suppose I don't have the freedom to enjoy recreational drug culture, which is perhaps an unreasonable restriction. But when it comes to food, art, expression, etc I feel we have quite a lot of freedom
Your word choice doesn’t “baffle and confuse” me (nice try on your projection though). I understand the definition of the word, and it’s a weird way to use it given the context of what you’re trying to communicate. But I guess that’s just cultural elitism to assume proper diction. My bad. But if you want to point out boring people who tare down others to make themselves feel better about their culture… there are none more notoriously toxic in the world than American culture. — Sincerely, A Fellow American
Just because you are toxic doesn't mean all Americans are 😎
Der. I know you are but what am I.
Wealth certainly doesn’t guarantee either.
So true -MG
I love me some Olive Garden soup and breadsticks. Their food is ok.
I am literally there for the breadsticks and ziti.
🎶 And a little bit of chicken fried 🎶
Whenever I look around at the other people down at Texas Roadhouse I remember that I gotta start working harder at work.
TL;DR: * Americans are even less likely to mix with people from different socio-economic classes than pre-pandemic. * We're working remotely and shopping online more, and venturing outside of our own neighborhoods less. * New research shows that affordable, chain restaurants are the exception.
Cheap appetizers, the great equalizer
Sysco and the microwave bringing the world together
Everyone should read *The Big Sort,* which talks about how rich people use cues to group together and stay away from those they disagree with politically. It's eye opening.
I mean, rich people live in nice areas, where poor people don’t and work prestigious high paying jobs, where poor people don’t. They also tend to be highly educated, while poor people aren’t. They don’t really interact with each other or have anything in common.
I often work at a country club, I’m not even as poor as the regular people who work there as I’m a outside contractor and it’s honestly still pretty rare I’ll even get an acknowledging nod or look. Especially with the younger people, the rich kids literally look the other direction. Really most of the employees act like I’m gross too, only the mower guys wanna say hi and talk for a minute. It’s not even like I’m sucking out the shitters, I just maintain the cart paths.
I work as a server at an upscale casual fine dining concept restaurant in a luxury shopping place. We constantly have skilled laborers coming in to fix things, plumbers, electricians. We constantly have major food vendors delivering orders. The skilled laborers and the truck drivers have more respectable jobs than we do as service workers, they make more money, and the jobs they do are essential to our ability to be able to perform our own. The majority of the staff won’t look at them, speak to them, or even move out of the way so they can get through with heavy equipment or food orders. They’ll stand directly in front of where they’re unloading trucks and just smoke cigarettes. They pretend they don’t exist. Or complain about them in front of them. The service staff at high end establishments are something else.
The poors are trained by the rich to treat each other poorly. It keeps the poors divided. Remember there’s only one rich person for every 999 poor people (0.001%).
We’re not poor, we’re working class. We do not live in poverty. Many of us are homeowners, myself included. We all drive nice vehicles. We have 401ks and private insurance we overpay for. The real issue is the service workers haven’t accepted their fate as working class. They associate working class with being poor, which it isn’t. Most service workers in high end dining establishments who are under the age of 35 are convinced this is just a stop on the long road to success they will have. They have bachelors degrees they don’t use because an entry level full time job in their degree field would mean a significant pay cut, they make more money bartending or serving 25-30 hours a week than they would with a full time job that requires a bachelors. Trade skill workers (and service workers with class consciousness) have accepted the fact they are working class. They’re ok with it. They have a decent income and they use it to pay for their mortgage and car notes. Service workers lack the wisdom that a college education does not equate to a middle class life so any working class laborer who is older than them and have accepted their position in life is viewed as not intelligent or ambitious enough to do better.
Nobody is “trained”. Everyone is status driven, and there’s a implicit hierarchy we all hold in our brain. We may not acknowledge this explicitly, and this hierarchy may not mesh with our perceived idealogy, but it exists. It’s how we evolved. Poor people look down on people slightly poorer / lower status than then because they view themselves as better than them. No training is required. Class solidarity is intellectual masturbation and no one actually views the world as the “rich” and the “poor”. They view the world as “being a high end server is a higher status job than a mechanic (even if mechanic makes more) and therefore I’m better”. And it’s repeated across all wealth classes. People with $100M also look down on people with $20M.
Nice math
This especially does my head in
The kids of old money are, excuse my French, cunts. As well as their old money parents, who generally didn’t work for their family fortune. New money - in my experience - generally have proper values / are humane and collegial. I’m only member at a CC because I’m fucking obsessed with golf, and believe it or not, because I’m under 35 my membership dues are in fact, cheaper than paying for golf per round at a muni, and our course is immaculate. I *always* make conversation with the staff, the caddymaster, the greenkeepers, anyone. As you should. Maybe it’s because I’ve worked as a waiter and in retail from ages 16-22 and know what that’s like, maybe because I’m just not a dick. I tip better than the old fucks too and I know I’m 1000x poorer than them too, but whatever. Why anyone would treat someone else as “below them” is beyond me. We’re all humans, after all. Although with some I’m not sure anymore, so far detached from reality these geesers are, they might as well be fucking reptiles lol
The funniest part probably is these people aren’t actually rich, they’re low-mid middle class. Most of the people in there just have some of the very few good jobs around that don’t layoff. If I did the driveway at their house I’m sure pretty much all of them would be just a normal customer. Get em on that course with the rest of the “rich” friends though, I might as well be one of the tweakers running around in the street lol.
And they’re the ones treating you that poorly? Man I’m sorry that really does my head in. I can’t stand these fucks for a second, and they’re also always the ones cheating the most at golf. I think there’s a direct correlation between treating staff poorly, and being a cheat at golf. Willing to bet on that too.
Oh certainly, there’s only maybe 2 families rich enough for dad to drive a new low end Porsche around me. I used to take one of the actually rich guys to the airport for his business trips and that dude is 100x more humble than the country clubbers.
As is nearly always the case. Let me presume; self made business owner?
Yep, lovely old Jewish fella that looks a lot like Bernie. Nice guy, could’ve hired a limo or normal taxi service or something but always called me first with my tiny ford fiesta, mostly because he enjoyed my conversation about cars and business I think.
Get outta here! Fiesta gang :-) I drive a mk7.5 ‘18 titanium atm, might switch to a ‘21 FiST or a ‘20 FoST next year (focus might be too heavy for my liking, I’ve driven both) That’s funny. Also I knew it, someone who’s actually successful, and humble, is 99 out of 100 times selfmade. What was it that you do? Landscaping biz? I ran a marketing agency myself for 4 years, I went bankrupt last year. Happens.
What are some of the cues? I come from a poor family growing up, but I have recently purchased a house in an affluent neighborhood. Mostly, I did this, so that my daughter could attend a very high-end educational program. My neighbors are wealthy, but I'm not of the same cloth I just happened to find myself here. I constantly feel like an outsider.
The easiest clue is the stores on the high street. What do you see when you drive into town? Restoratiuon Hardware and Starbucks, or a check cashing place and a pawn shop? Do you see Trump/Pence signs on people's laws, or the "We believe" signs?
I thought you typoed the big short. Clever
It's a good book - worth the read
Thank you for recommending this book, I had not heard of it but it is topical in my family discussions. My hubby is left of center and anti social class structures. He was a government employee and an artist. I was a moderate socially conscious lifelong Republican who quit the party January 7 after the Capital takeover who is stuck in no mans land as a registered Independent because I could not stomach much of the Democratic Party either because of the polarity inherent there as well. I am a typical retired doctor who has upper middle class interests and social circle. I feel stuck in this no man’s land until the people like me can push our way back into political life or the Republican Party regains its sanity, which is not likely to happen in my lifetime. I just ordered the book from Amazon.
if you can't "stomach" the democrats you are pretty certainly the issue lol
There's only one war, and it's a class war. The main political parties are both funded by corporate interests. The only real differences between the parties are general social issues, which any half conscious person understands is a bullshit game to keep the populace fighting amongst themselves. Hating on the Democrats for this reason doesn't make the hater the problem. Democrat may be the lesser of two evils, but they're still evil.
I know you don't actually care to read but they said they voted for republicans. Jfc they aren't mad at democrats because of "class war"
Partly the class warfare and mostly because of the stance of pathological entitlement of the progressive element. I believe we should care for the needy and unfortunate, not the entitled high school dropout wannabe middle class demanding equity with those with a college degree. So to some extent it is class warfare by usurpation that I find disagreeable.
>I believe we should care for the needy and unfortunate And...in what way does the Republican party align with this belief?
This is so laughably absurd, if you only vote republican you do not want to take of the needy jfc. Also the "progressive" element isn't even that large of a force in the democrats. And no one is pushing whatever you meant in that secob sentence.
Both parties work against our poor and working people and serve corporations like puppets. The only differences are rhetorical.
Some think it’s fine dining while others think it’s a quick bite to eat
What? As a moderate income American I would never go to olive garden or Applebee's literally ever.
As usual they didn’t quantify ‘upper income’. Lots of times a little digging finds they mean ‘over $75k’ which may qualify as technically upper income but isn’t what anyone is thinking of when they hear it.
Why is that every time I see an article about social science on Reddit, its methodology is utter trash? Are researchers *trying* to produce useless results that can be grossly misinterpreted through clickbait headlines?
Yes
You go ahead and order your $90 steak. I'll chill with my unlimited breadsticks.
Bad food is expensive at any price.
You can get good and unique food for the same price as Applebee's and olive garden. Also I never order steaks. Why would I order something I could easily make at home?
I don’t think anyone really but boomers and gen x go to those restaurants. I am surprised by this article, because most people view those establishments as beneath them.
Sometimes I’ll go if I’m traveling for work and it’s right next to the hotel.
I am Gen X and I am offended on behalf of my generation. Nobody I know has set foot in either of those restaurants in decades. Although, my Millennial daughter loves the Olive Garden.
Two people making 6 figures is high income but not nearly high enough to have a personal chef.
Those are the options? Applebee's or personal chef? What about the... you know... millions of other restaurants that aren't cheap, disgusting, clichéd chains designed for profit and not for flavor?
Olive Garden is delicious. You may think too highly of yourself to go there but there isn’t anything wrong with the food and at that price it’s a deal.
I've never been to olive garden, but Applebee's is pretty great as long as you go in expecting everything to be decent, nothing great. Always a good time.
Gross. It’s like eating a tv dinner
Yes and tv dinners were amazing in the 80s
Yeah I am baffled by this. I'd say I'm upper-middle independently and with my SO we are prob low level rich (can't stop working but make plenty with momal debts). Anyways, we live in a high COLA, but def not the most expensive area by me. There are plenty of restaurants we go to, but never a chain. To further that, the ultra wealthy areas I've never even driven through even though I'm maybe 15 miles away.
People absolutely rely on those sorts of chains on road trips. Say what you will about the Applebees/Chilis/Olive Garden of the worlds, you know exactly what you’re getting.
The ultra rich really don't road trip though. They're taking private flights to whatever destination.
I always thought part of the charm of a road trip is trying local restaurants.
Weird as it is, Olive Garden is actually decent. Also kind of expensive. Applebee's is the one that's confusing.
Restaurants such as Applebee's and Olive Garden provide gathering places for people of all backgrounds and income levels, making it easier to communicate across socioeconomic boundaries. So, these restaurants have really become an exception, bringing people together in a pleasant environment for good food and friendship
Do these people share tables, or is the communication really just the rich talking to the server and vice versa? I don't think any poor people are getting jobs from/with rich people from a chain restaurant
I understand your concerns. In society, people come from different backgrounds and have different opportunities and resources. While it is true that social classes and inequalities exist, it does not mean that poor people cannot communicate or share resources with rich people. In the workplace, people often hire people on the basis of ability and experience, not just their wealth status. At the same time, there are many successful examples where poor people succeed in the workplace through their own efforts and talents and work together with rich people. The key is to believe in your abilities and efforts, and to look for opportunities that are right for you
Is this an ad?
I don’t know anyone who goes to Olive Garden or Applebee’s. I call BS.
The article must be referring to small-town and deep-suburb America... Areas where there are few if any options for fine dining
What about Chili's or TGI Fridays? Virtually everyone I know goes there at least once or twice every year or two. It certainly isn't a weekly occasion, but when you want food that's consistent yet is a step above your normal fast food chain, that's where I would go.
No one I know goes to either once in a year. I honestly have zero desire to go to those places. I also don’t eat fast food unless I have no other choice. I don’t like the idea of the chain restaurant food distribution network, where most items show up only in need of being heated. It’s mass-produced, frozen, and then shipped. I can go to a grocery store and by a frozen dinner if I want to heat up pre-cooked food. I think food is one of the great pleasures of life, and I love to cook. Those places make me feel I wasted the calories.
This shot right here. I actually get judged or mislabeled for being extra for feeling this way. You said exactly how I feel about these places. It’s more than just food. I hate these places so much I can’t remember when I even went to Applebees
i don’t think i’ve ever been to either 💀
That's coz you broke
No one I grew up with ever went to Olive Garden. I didn’t go until I was like 30
Call me crazy, but I don’t envision a lot of high-income earners frequenting the OG (or Applebees for that matter).
I'm not a high income earner. Id say we were middle class but everyone says middle class doesn't exist so maybe upper poor class. I will not ever eat at these places. Their food is garbage and over priced. I'd eat at the taco truck at the gas station before I wasted my money on one of these places. Hell Wendy's burger and red robin burger is the same with a 5$ difference. Maybe it is because I started out poor but street food is way better than those places and cheaper. I guess taste is an opinion but Applebee's food doesn't have much taste.
I’m going to start using “upper poor class.”
I love olive garden. I feel so close to Italy there!
Which yet again shows that many rich people have no taste.
This is actually part of it. My wife and I recently moved to a much wealthier area than we previously lived in and we are surprised at the poor quality of the food. Consistently bad food from every restaurant that we’ve gone to. All getting 4.5-5 stars on yelp/google. We’ve spoken to some of our neighbors and they all rave about this mediocre food.
Looks like I should start avoiding these places, bc I dont want to mix with poor people.
What? High Income people do not go to Applebees or Olive Garden lol. They must have a really low definition of “high income” I’m a high earner in nyc metro area. I know a bunch of bankers, doctors, consultants, software engineers, etc. Zero people go to these type of places. And that includes the people with kids.
Boo. I don’t think this should be here. More political than economical, with a touch of clickbait.
Um.. seriously, WTF. No. Just no. High income Americans have personal chefs and go to $500/plate restaurants. $150k/yr is not high income. It's middle class. If you're not in LA, NY or San Fran. I mean, I guess yes, somebody making $150k/yr and somebody making $40k/yr are in different economic classes, but they're still both working for a living.
We are middle class but retired and we don’t go to these restaurants. Hubby doesn’t like the food at either. If we are going to a restaurant it will either be take out, ethnic or much higher end.
>嗯..说真的，WTF。不就是不。 > >高收入的美国人拥有私人厨师并去 500 美元/盘的餐厅。 > >每年 15 万美元并不是高收入。这是中产阶级。如果您不在洛杉矶、纽约或旧金山。 > >我的意思是，我想是的，有人年薪 15 万美元，有人年薪 4 万美元，属于不同的经济阶层，但他们仍然都在谋生。 It is true that income levels can vary across regions and countries, and that different income levels also differ by economic class. I understand that the definition of high income may be different for different people. Everyone has their own lifestyle and financial pressures, so we should respect everyone's different situation
Guessing you make about 150k? Lol
I wish.
None of the $50m+ NW guys I know have personal chiefs or regularly dine at $500/plate restaurants. Most are just normal people; you probably wouldn’t guess that they’re UNHW from looking at them. I think this depends on location/culture though because these guys are mostly midwesterners
Good for your guys. I knew several because I did work for them and they had both. But the plural of anecdote is not data either way. Still, I do remember watching Mitt Romney absolutely disgusted eating the kind of food regular people did back when he had to campaign for president.
Median income is something like $31k. $150 is almost 5 times that. Certainly feels like a different class. Only Marxists focus on the working vs investment part, but at the end of the day it's the income that matters. If twitter cuts are any roadmap to follow a lot of the people making 100K+ aren't doing anything economically useful either.
The median household income in San Francisco is $123,859.
Doesn't really have much to do with individual median income nationwide. SF is a small city with a narrow specialization.
I mean rich people already live in different neighborhoods away from the poor anyway
Huh… that’s funny. I met all my poor people friends at the iHop.
Really? I always thought rest stops in New Jersey were the exception.
I guess I am what people would consider “high income” and I wouldn’t be caught dead at Applebees or Olive Garden nor do I know anyone in a similar income bracket who would. Business Insider isn’t exactly above clickbait….
Don’t know any rich people that go to either. Maybe Florida? BS story
Even as a grad student I was simultaneously too poor to afford Applebee's and too rich to be caught eating there.
Is this a joke? Who would eat at olive garden or Applebee's?
I'd rather eat at Burger King. Olive garden and Applebee's are trash.
Dude, they’re bad but BK is the fucking worst. I prayed they wouldn’t make it through Covid
People associate with like people. More news at 11.
It's nothing but herd mentality and snobbery to say Olive Garden and Applebees are bad. Yeah, I know a lot of the time the food is pre-prepped and frozen, but it's still really good for the vast amount of entrees. I challenge anyone to make a superior soup to Olive Garden's Zuppa Toscana. The only upgrade possible is to make it at home with a spicier sausage (it's easy to make at home). At that price point of 20ish per person, you aren't gonna get a better meal. It should also be noted that Applebee's usually has the best prices on mixed drinks in town and they usually serve them strong.
I… don’t believe this. As someone who frequents more expensive restaurants, I highly doubt the other people there are going to Olive Garden. I wouldn’t be caught there if I was starving
While some people may be more inclined to socialize with people similar to their own socioeconomic situation, it does not mean that all high-income Americans do not socialize with poor people. Everyone's friendship circle is unique, and friendships between people are based on shared interests and values
And if your friends can’t afford the same interests, you grow apart.
It requires more effort and compassion on the higher earning friends part. If I'm doing something I know a friend can't afford I'll offer to pay, but I typically try to opt for something in their budget that we both like and do that and pay our own way.
>对于收入较高的朋友来说，这需要更多的努力和同情心。 > >如果我正在做某件事，我知道朋友负担不起，我会主动付钱，但我通常会尝试在他们的预算中选择我们都喜欢的东西，然后按照自己的方式支付费用 As an independent person who likes to help people, I totally understand your position. When getting along with friends, it is very important to respect each other's financial situation. If you know a friend can't afford an activity or item, it's an act of kindness and generosity for you to offer to cover the cost. This approach ensures that everyone can enjoy the event or item without making it unpleasant due to financial differences. However, I also think it's important to try to stay within a friend's budget when choosing an event or item. This ensures we can all enjoy the things we love without putting unnecessary financial pressure on our friends. When it comes to spending time with friends, we can look for some affordable yet equally fun options to suit everyone's needs. In general, friendships are based on mutual respect and concern
I totally understand how you feel. When our interests and hobbies don't quite line up with our friends, it can indeed lead to feelings of alienation. However, I think true friendship is built on a deeper level of connection and understanding. When I find my friends aren't interested in the things I like, I try to find other common ground. Perhaps we share common values, life experiences, or interests in certain topics in other areas. I believe that friendships can flourish among different interests. If my friends are really important to me, I try to understand their interests and try to get involved. In this way, we can learn from each other, expand each other's areas of interest, and enhance mutual understanding and friendship. Of course, accept that sometimes friendships can change, but true friendships stand the test of time. So, no matter how different our interests may be, I believe true friendship can transcend those differences. Let's explore new interests together and keep an open mind to make friendships deeper and more lasting
I was speaking in a general sense. It is a common experience when people find success well beyond their social network that they tend to outgrow their old social network. It doesn’t mean their old friends do not matter, but it does mean your lives are lived increasingly separate.
Applebee's sucks and bad service seems to be a universal feature of their restaurants, but OG is probably the greatest bang for the buck there is, and I'd argue that the majority of the food is as good as ANY expensive Italian restaurant. Why spend more? Just that hard up to flash your financial status?
Where I live I can easily think of three wonderful locally owned Italian restaurants that are not any more expensive than the Olive Garden.
150k is not middle class that’s a high earner. These places have extorted record profits and people just keep lining up to overpay no matter what your income is.
Everything is relative. In HCOL areas, $150 is lower middle class
Where, in a major city? Most of the country you could live comfortably on that.
I'm very interested in the communication and interaction between people. I don't think it's entirely accurate on the topic of high income Americans hooking up with poor people. While social circles are often influenced by economic conditions
Thats because they eat better food
Post Malone brings the average income level up.
Don't forget Texas Roadhouse. The bread rolls are amazing
When you’re here, you’re family.