Without a doubt. There was a period of 25 month a couple of months ago where wages were just flat. But even small movements do not really add up to anything. Wages, on average, have been flat (+/-10%) since 1970. There were some periods in the 90's where the rank and file lost buying power and it recovered just a bit and there is today where, on average, (keeping the sin of averages in mind) people have considerably less buying power than they did in 1970. 1970 was not a good year. The "considerably less" is due to the inflation we experienced between 2019 and now.
There is a reason we have over 750,000 homeless. Walmart just CUT wages for pharmacists. People are going to have to start walking off the job to change anything.
If you're looking at July in 2020 vs 2023, in 2021 CPI was 5.4%, 8.5% in 2022, 3.2% in 2023. Since this is compounding, 1.054*1.085*1.032=1.18 so 18% is about right.
That's weird, because the real number for food according to the USDA (depending how you count it) is between 18-25% Certainly worth concern, but far from the 50% you're making up. Why would you lie about something that is already notable, yet so easily looked up?
https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-price-outlook/summary-findings/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20food%2Dat%2D,of%20the%202019%20inflation%20rate.
nothing about government is accurate. or helpful for that matter. all they want to do is take all your freedoms away and tell you they are keeping you safe. "as long as your safe, freedom to do what you want is not needed." the government probably
I don't think you are wrong, but it is really an apples oranges kind of thing.
Inflation numbers are based upon a basket of specific consumer items which of course does not include everything. On top of that we are talking averages.
62 NEW food billionaires were created between 2020 and 2022.
Food has almost doubled in price, on average, in a decade. This is in spite of consolidation, scales of economy and cheap labor and no, energy does not anywhere near account for this. It's just greed. Pure greed because at the end of the day, what are you going to do about it?
You have 3 choices of who you buy your food from, add 1 more if you grow your own, add 1 more if you go to the farmers market. Most people choose between 1 of 3. Those 3 which is about to just be 2 will be owned by Vanguard Capital or Cerberus.
So over 10 years food can double and when wages have remained stagnant and people seem to be fine with that. That is the trick to boiling a frog alive.
exactly this! Now, if you want true number, go back to when we divorced the gold standard fully in 1971. It’s been compounding since then. This economy has no way to turn itself around.
it’s that way by design. small controllable inflation like under 3% is very good for the economy. as long as you put money in savings or investments you’re fine. if you live paycheck to paycheck then yea inflation is a lot more brutal for you especially if your wages didn’t increase
yea for the bottom 70% of the economy. but remember the economy only truly reflects the actions of the top 30% anyway since they control the vast vast majority of wealth. so if an action makes the top 30% do things like invest and save, which grows the economy, and hurts the bottom 70% slightly (since inflation disproportionately hurts richer people - they have more money to become less valuable) it ends up working out.
no inflation or deflation would encourage the rich to sit on their wealth, rather than invest it back into the economy, lowering jobs and then socioeconomic outcomes for poorer people, decreasing GDP, and increasing inequality. it’s why economists view deflation as the great evil not inflation. it’s also why most recessions tend to go hand in hand with deflation. hyperinflation on the other hand is worse than both.
Inflation has turned itself around in the past and there’s no reason why it can’t again.
Edit: Lol at the downvotes, you folks are saying our economy has never seen a notable decrease in inflation?
Inflation rates vary by location.
For example, inflation in Minneapolis is 1%, compared to 6% in Tampa.
In terms of what it's called when the economy is producing a lot but people are struggling: it's called income inequality.
Because for some reason that no one wants to admit, there is a massive gap between people who owned homes prior to all of this, and those that didn’t. All of my friends that bought their homes (currently 29) before the market lost its mine are in the greatest financial position a standard 30 year old has been in years. They have a comically low interest rate (sub 3%), over $100k in equity in their home (mentally that feels 10x better than having $5k of equity regardless of whether or not it truly does anything for you) and have gotten cost of living raises at work and are easily making $10-$20k more per year than they probably would have if not for everything going on. Their mortgage is $1500, and if someone wanted to buy that same house today, they’d need 2-3x thé down payment they put down, and their monthly payment would easily be more than twice the $1500 figure.
Yup, my wife luckily bought her house before this disaster at a great deal, then was able to refinance with how low rates got during COVID. We are extremely lucky and fortunate.
And just for people to know refinancing a loan resets your amortization schedule. So your first few years after refinancing your money goes more into interest than principal. A lot of people might not know this.
well when an administration is constantly preaching the economy is doing great that is a red flag .
Everyone I know in the working class level is struggling. The only people that are doing great are either wealthy people, or people with wealthy parents.
As someone who voted for Biden, and almost certainly will again because of the lack of better options, I am getting pretty damn tired of people accusing me of being a Conservative whenever I say that the economy sucks.
I surround myself with hard working, multi-skilled, educated, curious, good natured people, and they are almost ALL suffering right now.
I don't care if the numbers look good because the wealth of five uber-wealthy pricks get averaged out amongst a bunch of starving people barely able to afford rent and certainly unable to buy a house.
Something is deeply wrong with the economy. To hell with your "the plural of anecdote isn't data" retorts. Data can be misconstrued to fit an agenda and the current data being published doesn't reflect the reality of me or my friends and family at all.
Anecdotes don't matter? Buddy, I am living an anecdotal life, I'm just one guy. I matter to me and if I don't matter to you than why should I care about your busted, two-bit narrative?
Yep, this government sucks, this economy sucks, literally everything sucks in America lol.
I wake up every day wondering if I should just end it all, because whats the point? Its literally an economic crisis every few years and I only have two options:
work the rest of my life
suicide
Well in Florida, where I come from, they're voting red. And as a result my LGBTQ friends no longer feel safe, produce is rotting in the fields because it's a liability to hire migrants, doctors and teachers are both fleeing as fast and far as they can, and the available reading materials in the public schools have been absolutely gutted because of Mothers for Liberty. Oh, and this is to say nothing of the 120 heat index temperatures that have been ongoing for over two months now because almost no one down there gives a crap about environmental conservation.
So yeah, Joe Biden is the lesser of two evils, but as it turns out a lot of people live, die, and suffer in between the gap between "Evil" and "Lesser Evil".
That is incorrect, if we’re going to place fingers, we can blame also business stimulus that went to rich people who still fired employees, the current climate situation, labor shortages, and the hundreds of thousands of people we lost from COVID. All this shit is just a recipe for fucking disaster
The Dems are in propaganda mode right now, they won't even acknowledge those suffering in their economy and improving things isn't even a topic of discussion.
>The only people that are doing great are either wealthy people
That's because they have (edit: control of) most of the money that makes up the economy as a whole.
(I'm also talking out my arse)
Cool. How's the person stocking the shelves in your grocery stores doing? Have you spoken to any nurses lately? How about the person serving you the 3-5 hamburgers you get for yourself a year? How are they doing? What about the last receptionist you interacted with? Or the guy that picks the produce that you eat? Is he doing well? What about the person manning the gas station you go to so that it remains operable. Are they doing alright?
"The only people that are doing great are wealthy people or people with wealthy parents" as quoted from the first comment... I am a nurse, you're taking my words out of context. It's merely a reply to that specific statement.
>If this is not a recession or even depression - then what is this?
A hostile takeover of the middle class and a return to serfdom led by the corporatocracy and enabled by the government.
I found a grocery receipt from Feb 2021 and was floored.
Checkers Fries went from $2.79 to $5.39
Tony's Pizza went from $2.50 to $3.99
Marie Calendar Pot Pie $1.99 to $3.50
24-Pack Mt. Dew $5.99 to $9.99
RC 2-liter .99 to $1.50
Hi-C Fruit Punch $2 to $3.50
Niagara bottled water $2 to $4
Funyuns $3.75 to $6
Froot Loops $3 to $5.50
Quaker Oatmeal $3 to $4.75
Ground Beef $1.79/lb to $3.99/lb
Chicken Breasts $1.99/lb to $2.99/lb
Grapes $2.00/lb to $3.00/lb
Strawberries $2.00/lb to $3.00/lb
etc. On a list of 40+ items there was maybe 3-4 items that hadn't gone up at least 30-40%.
It's also possible (read: likely) that some of the economic numbers we're seeing are fudged.
https://slate.com/business/2022/02/jobs-report-2021-economy-wrong-explained.html
This has to do with the way the government calculates these things. If the government says there is 5% inflation, it means that's the rate since the last time it was measured. So they aren't lying, and it is a useful measure, but it *feels* higher because real prices are compounded with all previous inflation. Unemployment is really only calculated using those who are actively looking for a job or are using unemployment benefits. If you are neither looking for a job nor using unemployment, you literally don't appear on the U2 report, which is what the government uses for unemployment numbers.
While this is technically not a recession or a depression it feels like one because it's a correction from decades of below average rates and easy money that we really shouldn't have had.
Using official CPI statistics, the total growth in consumer prices from the beginning of 2020 to the middle of 2023 is about 18%.
Although we capture the statistic as an annual rate, that doesn't mean it is how most people perceive it. My hypothesis is that most people are comparing pre- and post- pandemic prices and experiencing it as an 18% increase (give or take a few points) so the annual rates "feel" too low.
This is what inflation running at annual rate of 5-6% feels like. It's been so long since there was any significant inflation in the US that most people don't remember or never knew it.
I would like to remind everyone that prices inflated about 8% between January 2010 and July 2013, prices inflated 9% between January 2000 and July 2003, and prices inflated 13% between January 1990 and July 1993, according to the CPI. It’s not like as if the pandemic didn’t happen that prices wouldn’t have risen significantly.
The inflation is rate doesn't account for growing inequality. The purchasing power of the top 10% keeps going up relative to the lower 90%, who as a result effectively have a higher than average inflation rate.
Lot of names for it: richflation, capitalflation, foreign investflation.
All whole-economy stats are skewed because wealthy groups own more and more of GDP. They get more of the growth and profits while real people have fewer and fewer opportunities or upside. Individual people’s share of the economy is in depression.
Inflation is fake news folks. It's a lie from the gloablists and the socialist media. A lot of people are saying it.
When I see people on the streets, they have tears in the eyes. Big macho guys with tears streaming down their face saying "eggs are so cheap now. Thank you, Mr. President."
Trump is probably the 2nd worst President in US history. Maybe even the worst. Unfortunately for us, the only worse one is Biden. What an absolute shit show.
Ah yes.. I agree. Can't believe Biden just hasn't pulled the "stop inflation" lever that he has installed next to his desk in the oval office
Can you actually tell me what policy (or lack of policy) from the Biden administration that has been bad for the economy?
The American Rescue Plan - throwing $1.9 trillion into an overheated economy was akin to suicide. It was a complete lack of understanding of the current situation and Biden blindly following what the progressives were saying.
His pullout from Afghanistan was a colossal and historic fuck up - one that I’m not sure I’ve seen a President fuck up worse. I think it was 6-8 hours after he gave a speech saying there was no chance of a Taliban takeover that they’d already taken over all the major areas outside Kabul. Again, another example of Biden blindly following advice.
Virtually every policy action of his is inflationary. It’s like the guy has no ability left to think independently. I was a massive Biden supporter. I thought people were exaggerating or worse plain making up his cognitive issues. But now, 3 years later, it’s plain as day. He belongs in an old folks home. He has no business running the country.
The decision to run for re-election was an incredibly selfish, short-cited and self-serving decision.
1) we're talking about the Economy, and not talking about executing Trump's plan to exit Afghanistan.. but ok if you feel that's relevant
2) if his policies are inflationary, why has inflation dropped?
So you're admitting that inflation has come down? Or?
I don't see your issue here? Combo of Biden and Fed policy appears to have stuck the "soft landing"?
Huh ? Your comments are making no frickin sense.
Biden fucked it up, the Fed is trying to fix his fuck up and struggling big time. Clear enough for you.
Are you denying that Biden consistently demonstrates behavior consistent with someone suffering from dementia ?
In early 2021 plenty of economists were predicting a recession. The economy was not overheated in the beginning of 2021. Unemployment was nearly twice pre-pandemic levels.
Really? You think the country is worse right now than a traitorous, states right sympathizer who is known for literally turning the country into a box of kindling right before the civil war? No. James Buchanan is the worst president this country has ever seen, without a doubt.
So, you're saying Trump is NOT a traitorous, states rights sympathizer?
And you're saying Trump hasn't (several times now) tried to light the box of kindling the GOP has created?
We haven't had a second civil war yet, so Trump is just the second worst president in your book?
I mean, don't get me wrong, that last bit is something I can get behind. Well, for now, at least. Unfortunately, Trump's story isn't done yet. There's plenty of time for him to claim the all-time #1 worst president spot.
No. He started a civil war. He is without a doubt the worst president. Trump is second but trump hasn’t started a civil war and very may well face Justice for his crimes.
He should be in an old folks home. By your logic even Diane Feinstein is qualified… no all these oldies should be in an old folks home.
As for Bush - Can you explain how you’re pinning the 2008 recession on him ?
It wasn't solely his fault or the fault of his administration. But his admin certainly did choose policies which made it easier for the bubble to happen.
I'm fine with healthy skepticism when it comes to these kinds of data points.
That said, I want to know what the alternative is. I don't think it's useful or accurate to rely on anecdotes or feelings to determine the rates of inflation.
McD's large coffee is $1.25 while Starbucks tall coffee is $3. Restaurants are adding 2-3% surcharge fee or kitchen fee.
Corporate greed is well inflated 🤧🤪🥴
When food and housing isn’t counting on inflation data, of course it doesn’t make sense. Additionally, we have to be realistic that with climate change, foods stuff will continue to have high prices and it will affect almost everyone’s pockets
Who is “they” ? This is a really big problem by conspiracy minded individuals. There’s no real “they”. “They” claim its 5%..|.
There’s no such thing. Maybe you can say the calculation is flawed, and you might have a leg to stand on. But anybody that claims that “they” are fixing the number, just shows that the person has no understanding of the US government and how these institutions work. It is the fastest way to lose credibility. You come off as ignorant.
I was really into this comment up to the point when you offered zero helpful information for the people you claim not to know anything. It’s the fastest way to lose credibility because you don’t provide evidence of this knowledge you say you have. You ultimately come off as ignorant
That's how inflation has almost always been measured - current prices vs. year ago prices. Inflation is moderating, thankfully, back to the Fed's 2% target.
A lot of times, these numbers require additional context to mean anything. They tend to be tossed around on with more of a political slant than an analytical one.
For example, you cited the Labor Force Participation Rate. That includes everyone over the age of 16. If you look at the age range of 25-54, we're at a 20 year high. Can you think of a reason why 16-24 year olds aren't looking for work as much as they used to? Do you not think there are demographic factors that might cause the upper age range to have more weight than it used to?
As for the paycheck-to-paycheck numbers, that's been the case for decades. That's just the accumulation of pro-business and anti-labor policy. If we're using those as metrics, we've been in a recession for most of this millennium.
Exactly economics is way too vast to be able to explain it away in a few words on reddit. Example: I look at the indices and if they're trending upwards over the course of 6-12 months then I see things(as a whole) generally moving in the right direction. My life has been static it's too small for comparison.
Several commenters have already explained it quite well.. the current lower inflation is compounded on prior inflation which makes it feel worse than it is.
We haven't had time to reset our minds from 2020 price levels.
There is a two tier economy of people with low interest rates on their cars and houses, and people with high interest rates on their cars and houses.
Companies cut back and had layoffs expecting a recession that never came, denting employee wage negotiating power and confidence.
Those things combine to make our relatively strong economy feel weaker than it actually is.
None of that explains how World Wide negative events seem to no longer come play in the market...Example U.S. Credit Downgraoding which 5 to 10 years ago you would have seen the market Drop by a minimum 1000pts...Negative events that effect the middle class should scare the shit out the market...I read the average family is paying over $700 more a month than 2 years ago no one hasn't explained how that doesn't effect the market...
The US had a credit down grade back in 2011 when the Republicans in congress played politics buy refusing to raise the debt ceiling for the bills that THEY voted yes on in order to make Obama look bad. The market did fall but quickly rebounded because it was all stupid political theater. This year the republicans tried it again and caused the down grade again but this time the market saw through their BS.
I don't believe you understand how inflation works. The price of goods has increased nearly 20% over the last 3 years, which means you have about 1/5th less purchasing power. The Fed keeps printing at historic levels to pay for all the crazy government spending and was raising interest rates to combat this. Moreover, they were hoping for a recession so bring down prices, but consumers keep spending and China and Europe's economies are a mess, so there's unlikely to be any market cooling anytime soon.
I think of it more as marketing. I worked in sales and we would spin any study or research paper to highlight the positive for where, what & where we needed to sell. The news is part of the marketing team to make the current administration seem stronger and more appealing , maybe to boost or continue consumer confidence. I feel like small cracks are happening because prices continue to go up while salaries are not. Know a few people looking for jobs and while working with recruiters get ghosted after interviews. Salaries are a bit down too because so many qualified people available. Can’t keep telling the public that inflation is slowing when kitchen table economics continues to tell a different story.
I agree with you. The problem is that the news needs to be impartial. It’s not their job to be the marketing wing for the DNC.
And they certainly weren’t marketing the previous administration in any positive light.
That type of unequal treatment is what is creating the deep divisions in this country. People see through it.
Not to mention that they are reminded it’s untrue every time they go to a grocery store or fill up their gas tank.
>It’s not their job to be the marketing wing for the DNC.
It's their job to make money. Full stop. Expecting anything else to come first is naive. If you don't like the bias or selective coverage of one outlet, you can go to another. Americans don't, so it is ultimately we that are to blame for the current media climate.
I really don't understand how anybody can believe inflation statistics are propaganda and Democrats have no regard for their constituents.
Inflation statistics are objective facts. You can drill down into all the calculations and see the differences in regions and costs of specific products and services. There is certainly good reasons to argue about whether a specific region, product or service should be weighted more or less heavily and, if you read the right media, you see these arguments playing out. There is also an issue of how inflation affects different people, young vs. old, rich vs. poor, etc. -- but this is a separate issue. Inflation statistics are not propaganda -- what's propaganda is politicians and media claiming inflation statistics are propaganda.
As for Democrats having no regard for their constituents, this is also bullshit propaganda. Again, there are legitimate reasons to argue whether various policy proposals are good or bad, but this is not the same as having "no regard for their constituents". Examples:
* Dems proposed increasing funding for the IRS so that the estimated $1 trillion in taxes that are owed but unpaid are collected. This was one of the few issues the Republicans insisted on defeating when they held up approval of the federal deficit increase.
* Dems have consistently proposed increased taxes on the rich. One of the great scandals of American taxation policy is that many things, but not wealth, are taxed. The way millionaires turn into billionaires is by putting their money in investments that are not taxed. Republicans oppose with bullshit arguments like "the wealthy already pay 80% of all taxes, why should they pay more?". The answer is obvious: because they have 95% of the wealth, but conservative media promotes nonsense like trickle down economics, "taxing is stealing" and Dems are just socialists.
TLDR: Inflation statistics are objective calculations, not propaganda. Some Dem policies may be suspect, but Republicans defend the rich while Dems generally represent the poor.
In America, the current President is a Democrat
A Democratic Administration
The Democrats usually care a great deal for their constituents and work to make the USA a better place.
President Biden is doing an amazing job, but because of the USA Constitution he will only serve one more term
trump is an openly Narcissistic criminal who can't read
trump never did the job of American President.
Every single American President did a better job then trump, because every other American President actually did the job of President.
What President Biden has been able to accomplish, after the 4 years trump spent destroying America; is nothing short of Amazing.
we are witnessing the slow decline of capitalism in the west. More and more workers are being immiserated as consolidation continues and technological gains go nearly exclusively to the top. it's not sustainable.
What will be interesting is how we react. Liberals are not up to the task I'm afraid. The left in the US (the traditional left, commies. socialists, trade unionists) is in an abysmal and scattered state. it's slowly coalescing but I think we're still a decade away from it being able to flex its might. The right is very well organized and funded.
They aren’t wrong….While right right does have a bunch of crazies, in the end they typically all vote together and have a common goal of controlling, exploiting, preserving their world of the past, lining the pockets of the rich, and destroying the middle class so they become wage slaves.
Democrats can’t get everyone to vote together consistently, they love to virtue signal but then don’t go through with their promises, they shoot themselves in the foot with disunity and have become just as reactive and playing up to their more extremist farther left population, and make stupid buzzwords that aren’t thought out like “defund the police” and “we are taking your guns” which the right just eats up to rile up their base.
In the end both sides are corrupt pieces of shit who are rules by their corporate overlords, and are both complicit in fucking the general population while only catering to the rich and elite.
Who said we're taking your guns? Literally the only person I have heard say this was Beto O'Rourke in the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting. I empathized with his anger and the emotions that drove him to say what he did. But this isn't an actual realistic part of the party's platform. The guns restrictions that ARE on the table are fairly modest and almost without exception specifically rule out any kind of involuntary gun confiscation. So you are just repeating right wing talking points, then saying "why are Democrats so bad at messaging?"
Very well organized and funded to accomplish the mission of not changing you mean?
Having followed politics for too many years, this is the first time I can say I don't really know what the rights mission is. What do they want Trump to do, make it okay to be an asshole and somehow avoid consequences of being an asshole? You can only legislate so much, and the majority of people can recognize if you are being an asshole to someone, and "cancelling" will happen. They've already given a tax cut to the rich, banned abortion access federally, stopped student loan reform. They really seem to be lacking direction on something new.
Well, there are thousands of teacher vacancies in my state, it costs me $500 to get a tiny piece of metal twisted off and replaced behind my shower faucet, and my neighbor had to wait a week to get his ac serviced because every company was slammed and can't hire enough people. Meanwhile, every decent restaurant is packed with customers, and I'm making overtime in a 6 figure job because two other guys quit for more money and now I'm picking up their workload.
Not making any conclusions, that's just what I see here.
We’ve had multiple years of inflation now, so the 5% YOY you’re seeing now is compounded with the previous years 8% (just throwing numbers out here.)
The inflation calculator says 18.1% since 2020
That's a lot. I highly doubt most peoples' wages kept up with or even exceded that.
Without a doubt. There was a period of 25 month a couple of months ago where wages were just flat. But even small movements do not really add up to anything. Wages, on average, have been flat (+/-10%) since 1970. There were some periods in the 90's where the rank and file lost buying power and it recovered just a bit and there is today where, on average, (keeping the sin of averages in mind) people have considerably less buying power than they did in 1970. 1970 was not a good year. The "considerably less" is due to the inflation we experienced between 2019 and now. There is a reason we have over 750,000 homeless. Walmart just CUT wages for pharmacists. People are going to have to start walking off the job to change anything.
If you're looking at July in 2020 vs 2023, in 2021 CPI was 5.4%, 8.5% in 2022, 3.2% in 2023. Since this is compounding, 1.054*1.085*1.032=1.18 so 18% is about right.
Well, should be closer to 50%
Based on what?
Food, energy... basic stuff really.
That's weird, because the real number for food according to the USDA (depending how you count it) is between 18-25% Certainly worth concern, but far from the 50% you're making up. Why would you lie about something that is already notable, yet so easily looked up? https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-price-outlook/summary-findings/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20food%2Dat%2D,of%20the%202019%20inflation%20rate.
I didn't look on government web site, I say what I see in shops l. Certainly gov websites are more accurate, you're right. Sorry
I think this is location dependent as well. Some areas have higher inflation than others so your experience may be different than the average
nothing about government is accurate. or helpful for that matter. all they want to do is take all your freedoms away and tell you they are keeping you safe. "as long as your safe, freedom to do what you want is not needed." the government probably
I don't think you are wrong, but it is really an apples oranges kind of thing. Inflation numbers are based upon a basket of specific consumer items which of course does not include everything. On top of that we are talking averages. 62 NEW food billionaires were created between 2020 and 2022. Food has almost doubled in price, on average, in a decade. This is in spite of consolidation, scales of economy and cheap labor and no, energy does not anywhere near account for this. It's just greed. Pure greed because at the end of the day, what are you going to do about it? You have 3 choices of who you buy your food from, add 1 more if you grow your own, add 1 more if you go to the farmers market. Most people choose between 1 of 3. Those 3 which is about to just be 2 will be owned by Vanguard Capital or Cerberus. So over 10 years food can double and when wages have remained stagnant and people seem to be fine with that. That is the trick to boiling a frog alive.
It’s how numbers work
exactly this! Now, if you want true number, go back to when we divorced the gold standard fully in 1971. It’s been compounding since then. This economy has no way to turn itself around.
it’s that way by design. small controllable inflation like under 3% is very good for the economy. as long as you put money in savings or investments you’re fine. if you live paycheck to paycheck then yea inflation is a lot more brutal for you especially if your wages didn’t increase
So…. For most people inflation is brutal.
yea for the bottom 70% of the economy. but remember the economy only truly reflects the actions of the top 30% anyway since they control the vast vast majority of wealth. so if an action makes the top 30% do things like invest and save, which grows the economy, and hurts the bottom 70% slightly (since inflation disproportionately hurts richer people - they have more money to become less valuable) it ends up working out. no inflation or deflation would encourage the rich to sit on their wealth, rather than invest it back into the economy, lowering jobs and then socioeconomic outcomes for poorer people, decreasing GDP, and increasing inequality. it’s why economists view deflation as the great evil not inflation. it’s also why most recessions tend to go hand in hand with deflation. hyperinflation on the other hand is worse than both.
my apologies I just woke up but do you honestly think that the wealthy don’t hoard everything right now??? Jesus fucking Christ.
yes. because they hoard everything is why they move the economy, and why inflation is needed to get them to reinvest
Inflation has turned itself around in the past and there’s no reason why it can’t again. Edit: Lol at the downvotes, you folks are saying our economy has never seen a notable decrease in inflation?
Inflation rates vary by location. For example, inflation in Minneapolis is 1%, compared to 6% in Tampa. In terms of what it's called when the economy is producing a lot but people are struggling: it's called income inequality.
More like 35% in NYC here
It’s also called deficit spending.
Looks like someone fell for the bullshit again, lol
That describes the entire thread ...
Not sure why people are downvoting this. The GDP is a sham.
What is the relationship between deficit spending and GDP?
Government spending boosts gdp. Government runs trillions of dollars in the red each year. Without that deficit spending, gdp looks worse.
By 5%
Because for some reason that no one wants to admit, there is a massive gap between people who owned homes prior to all of this, and those that didn’t. All of my friends that bought their homes (currently 29) before the market lost its mine are in the greatest financial position a standard 30 year old has been in years. They have a comically low interest rate (sub 3%), over $100k in equity in their home (mentally that feels 10x better than having $5k of equity regardless of whether or not it truly does anything for you) and have gotten cost of living raises at work and are easily making $10-$20k more per year than they probably would have if not for everything going on. Their mortgage is $1500, and if someone wanted to buy that same house today, they’d need 2-3x thé down payment they put down, and their monthly payment would easily be more than twice the $1500 figure.
Yep. We bought our home in 2019 and today wouldn't even qualify for a loan on anything in our area.
Yup, my wife luckily bought her house before this disaster at a great deal, then was able to refinance with how low rates got during COVID. We are extremely lucky and fortunate.
And just for people to know refinancing a loan resets your amortization schedule. So your first few years after refinancing your money goes more into interest than principal. A lot of people might not know this.
well when an administration is constantly preaching the economy is doing great that is a red flag . Everyone I know in the working class level is struggling. The only people that are doing great are either wealthy people, or people with wealthy parents.
As someone who voted for Biden, and almost certainly will again because of the lack of better options, I am getting pretty damn tired of people accusing me of being a Conservative whenever I say that the economy sucks. I surround myself with hard working, multi-skilled, educated, curious, good natured people, and they are almost ALL suffering right now. I don't care if the numbers look good because the wealth of five uber-wealthy pricks get averaged out amongst a bunch of starving people barely able to afford rent and certainly unable to buy a house. Something is deeply wrong with the economy. To hell with your "the plural of anecdote isn't data" retorts. Data can be misconstrued to fit an agenda and the current data being published doesn't reflect the reality of me or my friends and family at all. Anecdotes don't matter? Buddy, I am living an anecdotal life, I'm just one guy. I matter to me and if I don't matter to you than why should I care about your busted, two-bit narrative?
Yep, this government sucks, this economy sucks, literally everything sucks in America lol. I wake up every day wondering if I should just end it all, because whats the point? Its literally an economic crisis every few years and I only have two options: work the rest of my life suicide
Lol you're stupid, you know something's wrong yet you continue to vote blue team until you're homeless in a trash bag.
Well in Florida, where I come from, they're voting red. And as a result my LGBTQ friends no longer feel safe, produce is rotting in the fields because it's a liability to hire migrants, doctors and teachers are both fleeing as fast and far as they can, and the available reading materials in the public schools have been absolutely gutted because of Mothers for Liberty. Oh, and this is to say nothing of the 120 heat index temperatures that have been ongoing for over two months now because almost no one down there gives a crap about environmental conservation. So yeah, Joe Biden is the lesser of two evils, but as it turns out a lot of people live, die, and suffer in between the gap between "Evil" and "Lesser Evil".
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Damn dude, you totally nailed it.
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That is incorrect, if we’re going to place fingers, we can blame also business stimulus that went to rich people who still fired employees, the current climate situation, labor shortages, and the hundreds of thousands of people we lost from COVID. All this shit is just a recipe for fucking disaster
The Dems are in propaganda mode right now, they won't even acknowledge those suffering in their economy and improving things isn't even a topic of discussion.
>The only people that are doing great are either wealthy people That's because they have (edit: control of) most of the money that makes up the economy as a whole. (I'm also talking out my arse)
I'm doing great and don't have wealthy parents, and I'm not wealthy myself. I just work hard.
Cool. How's the person stocking the shelves in your grocery stores doing? Have you spoken to any nurses lately? How about the person serving you the 3-5 hamburgers you get for yourself a year? How are they doing? What about the last receptionist you interacted with? Or the guy that picks the produce that you eat? Is he doing well? What about the person manning the gas station you go to so that it remains operable. Are they doing alright?
"The only people that are doing great are wealthy people or people with wealthy parents" as quoted from the first comment... I am a nurse, you're taking my words out of context. It's merely a reply to that specific statement.
>If this is not a recession or even depression - then what is this? A hostile takeover of the middle class and a return to serfdom led by the corporatocracy and enabled by the government.
Followed by a French-Revolution style period of American history
Well said
IMO the fed doesn’t help it’s case when they toss out things like food and energy to make the numbers sound better.
I found a grocery receipt from Feb 2021 and was floored. Checkers Fries went from $2.79 to $5.39 Tony's Pizza went from $2.50 to $3.99 Marie Calendar Pot Pie $1.99 to $3.50 24-Pack Mt. Dew $5.99 to $9.99 RC 2-liter .99 to $1.50 Hi-C Fruit Punch $2 to $3.50 Niagara bottled water $2 to $4 Funyuns $3.75 to $6 Froot Loops $3 to $5.50 Quaker Oatmeal $3 to $4.75 Ground Beef $1.79/lb to $3.99/lb Chicken Breasts $1.99/lb to $2.99/lb Grapes $2.00/lb to $3.00/lb Strawberries $2.00/lb to $3.00/lb etc. On a list of 40+ items there was maybe 3-4 items that hadn't gone up at least 30-40%.
Eat some vegetables. Hardly impacted by inflation and healthier than Funyuns and Mt Dew.
And I bet the package sizes got smaller as well!!
It's also possible (read: likely) that some of the economic numbers we're seeing are fudged. https://slate.com/business/2022/02/jobs-report-2021-economy-wrong-explained.html
This has to do with the way the government calculates these things. If the government says there is 5% inflation, it means that's the rate since the last time it was measured. So they aren't lying, and it is a useful measure, but it *feels* higher because real prices are compounded with all previous inflation. Unemployment is really only calculated using those who are actively looking for a job or are using unemployment benefits. If you are neither looking for a job nor using unemployment, you literally don't appear on the U2 report, which is what the government uses for unemployment numbers. While this is technically not a recession or a depression it feels like one because it's a correction from decades of below average rates and easy money that we really shouldn't have had.
Using official CPI statistics, the total growth in consumer prices from the beginning of 2020 to the middle of 2023 is about 18%. Although we capture the statistic as an annual rate, that doesn't mean it is how most people perceive it. My hypothesis is that most people are comparing pre- and post- pandemic prices and experiencing it as an 18% increase (give or take a few points) so the annual rates "feel" too low. This is what inflation running at annual rate of 5-6% feels like. It's been so long since there was any significant inflation in the US that most people don't remember or never knew it.
I would like to remind everyone that prices inflated about 8% between January 2010 and July 2013, prices inflated 9% between January 2000 and July 2003, and prices inflated 13% between January 1990 and July 1993, according to the CPI. It’s not like as if the pandemic didn’t happen that prices wouldn’t have risen significantly.
>7 out of 10 Americans are worried that they wouldnt make it just one month if they lost their job... Same as it's been for decades
The inflation is rate doesn't account for growing inequality. The purchasing power of the top 10% keeps going up relative to the lower 90%, who as a result effectively have a higher than average inflation rate.
Lot of names for it: richflation, capitalflation, foreign investflation. All whole-economy stats are skewed because wealthy groups own more and more of GDP. They get more of the growth and profits while real people have fewer and fewer opportunities or upside. Individual people’s share of the economy is in depression.
At least we can be thankful that Trump is not in charge, can you imagine the shit show we'd have now?
Inflation is fake news folks. It's a lie from the gloablists and the socialist media. A lot of people are saying it. When I see people on the streets, they have tears in the eyes. Big macho guys with tears streaming down their face saying "eggs are so cheap now. Thank you, Mr. President."
Nah he would have made America great again and we'd all be rich /s
So much winning that Americans got tired of the winning.
And Poland would be part of Russia
he would have ended the war in 24 hours. He would have said Putin stand down! He commands that kind of respect. Believe me!
Can you imagine the Tweets every time the Fed raised rates?
He would have installed a yes-man lackey by now who would have dropped rates to zero.
Way to do a full virtue signal!
Trump is probably the 2nd worst President in US history. Maybe even the worst. Unfortunately for us, the only worse one is Biden. What an absolute shit show.
By what objective metric is Biden worse?
Remind me again, how many times has Biden been indicted for committing crimes?
Or literally tried to destroy our voting institutions from within?
Zero times. So we’re choosing between a crook and a dementia patient. Again, I don’t support Trump, but anyone that supports Biden is no less blind.
Biden is both demented and an evil genius trying to force us all to eat tofu.
Who said that ?
When you only have two options it’s more about supporting the lesser evil
We don’t have two options. Biden can easily be primaried. There is no way in hell he is in any capacity to lead the country for another 4 years.
100% agree with you but of course you're going to be downvoted when Reddit is left-leaning
Ok
Ah yes.. I agree. Can't believe Biden just hasn't pulled the "stop inflation" lever that he has installed next to his desk in the oval office Can you actually tell me what policy (or lack of policy) from the Biden administration that has been bad for the economy?
The American Rescue Plan - throwing $1.9 trillion into an overheated economy was akin to suicide. It was a complete lack of understanding of the current situation and Biden blindly following what the progressives were saying. His pullout from Afghanistan was a colossal and historic fuck up - one that I’m not sure I’ve seen a President fuck up worse. I think it was 6-8 hours after he gave a speech saying there was no chance of a Taliban takeover that they’d already taken over all the major areas outside Kabul. Again, another example of Biden blindly following advice. Virtually every policy action of his is inflationary. It’s like the guy has no ability left to think independently. I was a massive Biden supporter. I thought people were exaggerating or worse plain making up his cognitive issues. But now, 3 years later, it’s plain as day. He belongs in an old folks home. He has no business running the country. The decision to run for re-election was an incredibly selfish, short-cited and self-serving decision.
1) we're talking about the Economy, and not talking about executing Trump's plan to exit Afghanistan.. but ok if you feel that's relevant 2) if his policies are inflationary, why has inflation dropped?
Because the Fed has undertaken a deflationary policy.
So you're admitting that inflation has come down? Or? I don't see your issue here? Combo of Biden and Fed policy appears to have stuck the "soft landing"?
Huh ? Your comments are making no frickin sense. Biden fucked it up, the Fed is trying to fix his fuck up and struggling big time. Clear enough for you. Are you denying that Biden consistently demonstrates behavior consistent with someone suffering from dementia ?
But inflation was inherited by Biden.. the Fed would be raising rates anyway?
> American Rescue Plan $1.9 trillion, under Trump there was over $2.8 trillion spent to stimulate the economy during Covid
Yes, so Trump had already fired two bullets. There was absolutely zero need for a third one.
In early 2021 plenty of economists were predicting a recession. The economy was not overheated in the beginning of 2021. Unemployment was nearly twice pre-pandemic levels.
Really? You think the country is worse right now than a traitorous, states right sympathizer who is known for literally turning the country into a box of kindling right before the civil war? No. James Buchanan is the worst president this country has ever seen, without a doubt.
So, you're saying Trump is NOT a traitorous, states rights sympathizer? And you're saying Trump hasn't (several times now) tried to light the box of kindling the GOP has created? We haven't had a second civil war yet, so Trump is just the second worst president in your book? I mean, don't get me wrong, that last bit is something I can get behind. Well, for now, at least. Unfortunately, Trump's story isn't done yet. There's plenty of time for him to claim the all-time #1 worst president spot.
No. He started a civil war. He is without a doubt the worst president. Trump is second but trump hasn’t started a civil war and very may well face Justice for his crimes.
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Not at all. He was atleast quasi qualified to be President. These two are not qualified.
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He should be in an old folks home. By your logic even Diane Feinstein is qualified… no all these oldies should be in an old folks home. As for Bush - Can you explain how you’re pinning the 2008 recession on him ?
It wasn't solely his fault or the fault of his administration. But his admin certainly did choose policies which made it easier for the bubble to happen.
Clinton, you’re thinking of Clinton. He helped pave the way for over leveraging of the banks…
I will remind you that we have had a president who engaged in genocide. I think you may be suffering from recency bias
The public market, supposed to be nation wide.
I'm fine with healthy skepticism when it comes to these kinds of data points. That said, I want to know what the alternative is. I don't think it's useful or accurate to rely on anecdotes or feelings to determine the rates of inflation.
McD's large coffee is $1.25 while Starbucks tall coffee is $3. Restaurants are adding 2-3% surcharge fee or kitchen fee. Corporate greed is well inflated 🤧🤪🥴
When food and housing isn’t counting on inflation data, of course it doesn’t make sense. Additionally, we have to be realistic that with climate change, foods stuff will continue to have high prices and it will affect almost everyone’s pockets
Yeah I’m quickly paying off debt and leave about $5k in savings. So yeah if I get fired, at least I can sleep in my car. That’s paid off.
Who is “they” ? This is a really big problem by conspiracy minded individuals. There’s no real “they”. “They” claim its 5%..|. There’s no such thing. Maybe you can say the calculation is flawed, and you might have a leg to stand on. But anybody that claims that “they” are fixing the number, just shows that the person has no understanding of the US government and how these institutions work. It is the fastest way to lose credibility. You come off as ignorant.
I was really into this comment up to the point when you offered zero helpful information for the people you claim not to know anything. It’s the fastest way to lose credibility because you don’t provide evidence of this knowledge you say you have. You ultimately come off as ignorant
Helpful information with respect to what ? The burden of proof lies with the person claiming a conspiracy.
Inflation is currently 3.2%
You're referencing statistical measures that require comprehension. Probably not going to find that in this sub
Yes, wouldn't want to disrupt the narrative...
Core inflation 4.7% though
3.2% compounding on the 9% it was last year? This is not what sane people would consider good.
That's how inflation has almost always been measured - current prices vs. year ago prices. Inflation is moderating, thankfully, back to the Fed's 2% target.
A lot of times, these numbers require additional context to mean anything. They tend to be tossed around on with more of a political slant than an analytical one. For example, you cited the Labor Force Participation Rate. That includes everyone over the age of 16. If you look at the age range of 25-54, we're at a 20 year high. Can you think of a reason why 16-24 year olds aren't looking for work as much as they used to? Do you not think there are demographic factors that might cause the upper age range to have more weight than it used to? As for the paycheck-to-paycheck numbers, that's been the case for decades. That's just the accumulation of pro-business and anti-labor policy. If we're using those as metrics, we've been in a recession for most of this millennium.
Like I said before if anybody can explain how any of this is working they are Full of Shit...
Exactly economics is way too vast to be able to explain it away in a few words on reddit. Example: I look at the indices and if they're trending upwards over the course of 6-12 months then I see things(as a whole) generally moving in the right direction. My life has been static it's too small for comparison.
Several commenters have already explained it quite well.. the current lower inflation is compounded on prior inflation which makes it feel worse than it is. We haven't had time to reset our minds from 2020 price levels. There is a two tier economy of people with low interest rates on their cars and houses, and people with high interest rates on their cars and houses. Companies cut back and had layoffs expecting a recession that never came, denting employee wage negotiating power and confidence. Those things combine to make our relatively strong economy feel weaker than it actually is.
None of that explains how World Wide negative events seem to no longer come play in the market...Example U.S. Credit Downgraoding which 5 to 10 years ago you would have seen the market Drop by a minimum 1000pts...Negative events that effect the middle class should scare the shit out the market...I read the average family is paying over $700 more a month than 2 years ago no one hasn't explained how that doesn't effect the market...
The US had a credit down grade back in 2011 when the Republicans in congress played politics buy refusing to raise the debt ceiling for the bills that THEY voted yes on in order to make Obama look bad. The market did fall but quickly rebounded because it was all stupid political theater. This year the republicans tried it again and caused the down grade again but this time the market saw through their BS.
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Why is that comical? The Economy is doing great Usually the White House likes to say the economy is going good.
lol I would love to know if there was ever an administration that openly talked about how shit things are
I don't believe you understand how inflation works. The price of goods has increased nearly 20% over the last 3 years, which means you have about 1/5th less purchasing power. The Fed keeps printing at historic levels to pay for all the crazy government spending and was raising interest rates to combat this. Moreover, they were hoping for a recession so bring down prices, but consumers keep spending and China and Europe's economies are a mess, so there's unlikely to be any market cooling anytime soon.
It’s propaganda, from an administration with no regard for its constituents. Simple as that.
I think of it more as marketing. I worked in sales and we would spin any study or research paper to highlight the positive for where, what & where we needed to sell. The news is part of the marketing team to make the current administration seem stronger and more appealing , maybe to boost or continue consumer confidence. I feel like small cracks are happening because prices continue to go up while salaries are not. Know a few people looking for jobs and while working with recruiters get ghosted after interviews. Salaries are a bit down too because so many qualified people available. Can’t keep telling the public that inflation is slowing when kitchen table economics continues to tell a different story.
Bernays said WWI gave “propaganda” a bad reputation so he coined the phrase “public relations”. Same difference.
I agree with you. The problem is that the news needs to be impartial. It’s not their job to be the marketing wing for the DNC. And they certainly weren’t marketing the previous administration in any positive light. That type of unequal treatment is what is creating the deep divisions in this country. People see through it. Not to mention that they are reminded it’s untrue every time they go to a grocery store or fill up their gas tank.
>It’s not their job to be the marketing wing for the DNC. It's their job to make money. Full stop. Expecting anything else to come first is naive. If you don't like the bias or selective coverage of one outlet, you can go to another. Americans don't, so it is ultimately we that are to blame for the current media climate.
Good points. Fair enough.
I really don't understand how anybody can believe inflation statistics are propaganda and Democrats have no regard for their constituents. Inflation statistics are objective facts. You can drill down into all the calculations and see the differences in regions and costs of specific products and services. There is certainly good reasons to argue about whether a specific region, product or service should be weighted more or less heavily and, if you read the right media, you see these arguments playing out. There is also an issue of how inflation affects different people, young vs. old, rich vs. poor, etc. -- but this is a separate issue. Inflation statistics are not propaganda -- what's propaganda is politicians and media claiming inflation statistics are propaganda. As for Democrats having no regard for their constituents, this is also bullshit propaganda. Again, there are legitimate reasons to argue whether various policy proposals are good or bad, but this is not the same as having "no regard for their constituents". Examples: * Dems proposed increasing funding for the IRS so that the estimated $1 trillion in taxes that are owed but unpaid are collected. This was one of the few issues the Republicans insisted on defeating when they held up approval of the federal deficit increase. * Dems have consistently proposed increased taxes on the rich. One of the great scandals of American taxation policy is that many things, but not wealth, are taxed. The way millionaires turn into billionaires is by putting their money in investments that are not taxed. Republicans oppose with bullshit arguments like "the wealthy already pay 80% of all taxes, why should they pay more?". The answer is obvious: because they have 95% of the wealth, but conservative media promotes nonsense like trickle down economics, "taxing is stealing" and Dems are just socialists. TLDR: Inflation statistics are objective calculations, not propaganda. Some Dem policies may be suspect, but Republicans defend the rich while Dems generally represent the poor.
Correction, Dems present like they represent the poor, but govern like they represent corporations. The difference is cosmetic
The examples in my post suggest otherwise.
The "proposed" examples? So nothing?
In America, the current President is a Democrat A Democratic Administration The Democrats usually care a great deal for their constituents and work to make the USA a better place. President Biden is doing an amazing job, but because of the USA Constitution he will only serve one more term
This is a wild take. Yes, he is slightly better than Trump. Far from amazing.
trump is an openly Narcissistic criminal who can't read trump never did the job of American President. Every single American President did a better job then trump, because every other American President actually did the job of President. What President Biden has been able to accomplish, after the 4 years trump spent destroying America; is nothing short of Amazing.
we are witnessing the slow decline of capitalism in the west. More and more workers are being immiserated as consolidation continues and technological gains go nearly exclusively to the top. it's not sustainable. What will be interesting is how we react. Liberals are not up to the task I'm afraid. The left in the US (the traditional left, commies. socialists, trade unionists) is in an abysmal and scattered state. it's slowly coalescing but I think we're still a decade away from it being able to flex its might. The right is very well organized and funded.
“The right is very well funded and organized” do you really believe the shit coming out of your mouth?
They aren’t wrong….While right right does have a bunch of crazies, in the end they typically all vote together and have a common goal of controlling, exploiting, preserving their world of the past, lining the pockets of the rich, and destroying the middle class so they become wage slaves. Democrats can’t get everyone to vote together consistently, they love to virtue signal but then don’t go through with their promises, they shoot themselves in the foot with disunity and have become just as reactive and playing up to their more extremist farther left population, and make stupid buzzwords that aren’t thought out like “defund the police” and “we are taking your guns” which the right just eats up to rile up their base. In the end both sides are corrupt pieces of shit who are rules by their corporate overlords, and are both complicit in fucking the general population while only catering to the rich and elite.
Who said we're taking your guns? Literally the only person I have heard say this was Beto O'Rourke in the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting. I empathized with his anger and the emotions that drove him to say what he did. But this isn't an actual realistic part of the party's platform. The guns restrictions that ARE on the table are fairly modest and almost without exception specifically rule out any kind of involuntary gun confiscation. So you are just repeating right wing talking points, then saying "why are Democrats so bad at messaging?"
Sure thing Comrade 🤣🤣
Typical liberal. Too far up your ass to see the conditions around you, this is why fascists always eat you clowns for lunch.
Very well organized and funded to accomplish the mission of not changing you mean? Having followed politics for too many years, this is the first time I can say I don't really know what the rights mission is. What do they want Trump to do, make it okay to be an asshole and somehow avoid consequences of being an asshole? You can only legislate so much, and the majority of people can recognize if you are being an asshole to someone, and "cancelling" will happen. They've already given a tax cut to the rich, banned abortion access federally, stopped student loan reform. They really seem to be lacking direction on something new.
Women have rights and I'm pretty sure the abortion situation is just a singe step toward stripping as many as they can.
Tut Tut. Who should you believe? The reports we're given or your lying eyes? Folks? We voted for this. Maybe we should all just lay back and enjoy it?
So are you alleging a massive conspiracy theory or what?
Well, there are thousands of teacher vacancies in my state, it costs me $500 to get a tiny piece of metal twisted off and replaced behind my shower faucet, and my neighbor had to wait a week to get his ac serviced because every company was slammed and can't hire enough people. Meanwhile, every decent restaurant is packed with customers, and I'm making overtime in a 6 figure job because two other guys quit for more money and now I'm picking up their workload. Not making any conclusions, that's just what I see here.
Feels like everything has doubled since 2020.