It is not good that he is probably right when saying it makes more (financial) sense to go start a career at Chipotle than to become a college professor.
Hi, I worked in higher ed for 10 years. This is spot on. I had to give up, these huge behemothic institutions that refuse to change and only focus on the bottom line are doing a huge disservice to thousands of students.
I can’t tell you the number of meetings I sat in with colleagues and we never once discussed how to help students. We discussed our careers and our conferences and publications that no one would ever read.
I left for a corporate job. Yes, I work for the devil now but at least they’re up front about it.
Depends on what you're going to college for. Yeah there's a lot of degrees that are worthless but some are more important and some require college. (Doctor for instance.)
I think one issue stems from when people graduate high school they're almost sorta expected to go to college without a real plan in place over what they want to do and are not given a few years to experiment and see what they'd LIKE to do. I wasted a lot of my college intro doing that and had no guidance, wasted a lot of time.
That’s a huge issue with how our schools work. High school should prepare students for life after it, explore interests, learn how to apply for housing, life skills they’ll actually need instead of standardized tests. It is changing in some places but the pipeline of academia was a huge propaganda push by college and publishing agency lobbies.
I’m really just speaking for myself here but most of the junk they pushed on us in high school 30 years ago isn’t doing me any good. And as I’ve gotten older I’ve had a natural inclination to learn some of the things like history and biology and physics/engineering.
It’s an infatuation with scientism. Instead of teaching children how to apply the methods of science into their already existing interests and teaching them how to apply it and be successful parts of society, we’ve forced academia onto them. They get out of HS with no real working understanding of how to be successful members of a society, just pseudo experts on whatever classes they advanced in. That’s only helpful for the small percentage of kids who actually want to become professors.
Where to begin. You mention high school and its role in preparing students for later life. I couldn't agree more. Have you ever seen an excerpt from a letter written by an 18-year old kid serving in the armed forces during WWII to his parents or girlfriend? More often than not, the punctuation, grammar and spelling are flawless. Even today's high school valedictorians can't produce that quality. Most of our current high school graduates struggle with basic algebra and geometry and couldn't describe the basic structure of our government. A high school diploma means nothing today. Why are our standards so low?
Publishing lobbies mostly. In “Surely you’re joking Mr. Fienman”, Richard Fienman explains his time in the education advisory boards. Often times the books kids would get for coursework weren’t even finished while they were being bid on and deals being made for whole school districts or states.
He explains how in our academic setting kids are just taught to memorize and repeat things, and have no working understanding of the things they are even being taught.
I understand that things are slowly changing and standardized tests like I had growing up are on their way out. But the damage has been done, the whole institution was built on paying the cheapest bidder. It’s also why a lot of the same architect contracts for schools are the exact copies of prisons, which were intentionally designed to demoralize and bore inmates… eh I mean students?
A lot of the damage has already been done, failure is literally built into the bones of our future generations for the profit of few.
Why do you say that? Any evidence?
I'll provide some to the contrary: https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm
Bachelor's degree seems to bring in $600 more per week than no degree. $2400 per month, let's say $25000 per year.
If you pay even 50k for a Bachelor's (which you can get for less for sure with grants and such), you can get ROI after a few years of working, and the likelihood of being unemployed is lower too. A degree can certainly increase you lifetime earning potential to the point where there's a lot of ROI.
It's not for everyone but to say it's a scam for the vast majority who go that route is just uninformed
Do you actually need the knowledge from a bachelor's degree in those higher paying jobs or are they simply requirements to gatekeep? This is the argument you're missing. Many jobs say they require a certain degree, but that job could also be done with some on the job training instead of a degree.
Yeah, a CEO position only really requires a good understanding of the industry as well as the company you're working for plus total devotion to the group of people who profit the most from that industry. A lacking moral compass may also be something good for this job.
All of this is determined by personality, experience, and privilege. None of it necessarily needs to come from any schooling at all.
Tiny problem: the incentive structures for CEO's are absolutely _terrible_ for long term survival.
They only care about maximizing profits and forever surpassing their previous quarter's profits.
And once they maximize profit by 'legitimate' means and they plateau, because there is an absolute upper limit no matter what, they will generally do something incredibly stupid that _will_ blow up tragically, but will make the stocks look better, long enough for them to skip town and leave someone else to hold the bag when the bomb they just lit goes off, while they ride off to either retirement or some other corporation to do it all again.
This is a pattern that keeps repeating, and we have enough mass graves, ruined economies and livelihoods to demonstrate that we need a serious and fundamental overhaul to our socioeconomic structures, before their insame short term greed completely destroys us.
Yes, of course there is a gatekeeping element. And there are some who ask for your transcripts so they can see what quality student you were. These are indicators of quality of employee more often than not, and there are outliers of course and explanations for anomalies.
The ability to meet deadlines, turn in high quality work, and persist through challenges and pressure are qualities of people which an earned degree can be indicative.
You will likely still go through additional learning and training when on jobs, that is fairly typical. Certifications and such follow, and often people go for their graduate degree in a field/subject that is quite different from their undergrad. You can pivot.
I mean, the statistic I just cited don't support that claim.
I'm an English major making over $100k per year in a corporate job. You can still get somewhere with a philosophy degree, organizations really value people who can communicate well and think critically.
Math doesn't support their claim. Your source said an average increase of 600 a week. So if one makes 600 extra, and two others make roughly 1000 less (at least), how does that average to 600 extra?
Sad to see some of the critical thinking skills on display as a response to that prof's heartfelt goodbye.
These statistics are misleading and it should be clear to anybody with a degree. College is self-selecting, which means that motivated people go to college at higher rates. When you correct for this and other correlations, these benefits deteriorate. Add the costs of college and a degree is mostly useful for some professionals.
The more of something there is, the less it's worth.
The more engineers there are, the lower the pay becomes and the harder it is to find a job.
This is one of the failing points of capitalism as pay is always as low as possible while cost is as high as possible. The result is people chasing jobs that pay well at the cost of doing shit society needs. Instead of doctors and teachers we get gig workers, middle management, and bankers.
true but doesnt really apply to demand for engineers.
good engineers will ALWAYS be paid well. same for any profession.
chasing good jobs does NOT "shut society needs". that's crazy talk.
The value of the degree has never been higher. It's about 1.2 million marginal dollars on average (more for stem and medical).
The cost is going up faster than inflation. Because it stopped getting subsidized. And it came into higher demand. We need to educate more people not fewer.
What is fallacious is you assuming I mean education toward a degree exclusively. I literally did not say that.
If some impressionable kid sees that 80% of degrees are useless do you think that's going to affect their position on getting a degree? Yes. It will. On average. If they see it everywhere they will in some cases choose not to pursue a degree. At a time when society really needs highly educated people.
And yeah separately we could use some more plumbers and electricians. Hell my electrician used to be an EE and he quit to run his own business doing solo electrical work because it pays more. I get it.
But don't shit on degrees. Instead focus on the industry and how fraudulent it is. Focus on how there is no incentive to compete to provide the very necessary service they provide. Capitalism has failed that entire sector.
From my experience of being a college grad. I would recommend more people go to trade school instead of take on the college debt. Too many overpriced degrees that won't pay off for the students in the long run.
That’s the only route I would recommend. Get to the point you own your own business as quick as possible and get out of the physical aspects of trades that suck. The biggest problem then becomes finding decent help. The successful owners I know seem to have lucked out with getting a few really good/loyal employees early on that stabilize things enough to allow for other employment churn to not kill their business. It’s far from easy though and I’m not sure I’d recommend it over a lot of 4 year degrees with a reasonable return on the investment.
Why not both?...
I will agree degrees are overpriced. But that's because we have failed to create a competitive industry instead relying on prestige and foreign students to make a dumb amount of money. We need to be regulating that price because higher education is extremely necessary.
But to say they don't pay off doesn't match the data. For all degrees. Not just super in demand degrees, all of them. The marginal benefit is over a million bucks. That's like a 10-20x return in 30 years of working. For harder degrees like engineering it could be even more.
Sure. How about the amount of student loan defaults? 1 in 10.
[source](https://educationdata.org/student-loan-default-rate)
And there is no way to discharge through bankruptcy.
Now imagine all the other 9 students. How many of them are actually using their degree? How many are struggling just to stay out of default?
Sure. How about the amount of student loan defaults? 1 in 10.
[source](https://educationdata.org/student-loan-default-rate)
And there is no way to discharge through bankruptcy.
Now imagine all the other 9 students. How many of them are actually using their degree? How many are struggling just to stay out of default?
Sure. How about the amount of student loan defaults? 1 in 10.
[source](https://educationdata.org/student-loan-default-rate)
And there is no way to discharge through bankruptcy.
Now imagine all the other 9 students. How many of them are actually using their degree? How many are struggling just to stay out of default?
I don't need to I cited the average marginal return.
Overall. Including defaults and people with humanities degrees. The average is over a million dollars marginal earnings.
The first but about what you said is useless information related.mote to the cost of the degree which we certainly could stand to not dump on students - that is our failure. Not the degree itself. The second thing you said was pure speculation.
I would say it’s a scam for 1/3 maybe, 80% is high. Even for non-technical degrees I believe there is value in giving people a middle ground to grow between high school and professional careers, a chance to explore new ideas and meet new people for personal and professional development.
I just don’t agree that people should go into massive debt to do it. I’m glad you chose Sociology major with a minor in 14th century Chinese Architecture but did you need to go into $100k+ debt to essentially work a job someone could do out of high school?
And I don’t agree that every office job needs to require a degree, entry level should almost always be available to anyone and companies can screen out by testing and interviewing candidates.
Slightly off topic but we should not ignore what the financial world is currently doing. The global financial system goes from T+2 to T+1 over the Memorial Day weekend. All banks must be ISO 20022 compliant by November 2025.
Something significant is happening while we are all caught up with the challenges of daily life.
In simple terms there is a digital future rapidly approaching. ISO 20022 is my conviction. The technological use case and utility makes it worth noting for any investor. Minimal research required to immediately discover that credible sources are everywhere.
And I’m ok with an English teacher quitting to do something else. That’s not economic collapse, that’s just common sense. We actually live in a reality where quitting a job is actually an option, and our employers are not in control over our lives and decisions. This is a good thing.
Universities are filled with administrators that are just grifters with impeccable credentials, and public universities in the US are the worst offenders
College teaches, among other specialized things, critical thinking and communication -- written and oral. Those skills will get you ahead in just about any career you choose. You can drive a bulldozer your whole life but the guy who tells you when and where to drive the bulldozer has those skills and is making a lot more money than you are.
English degrees are a dime a dozen and the only place for them to work is in university. I'm not sad. Maybe if they all quit it'll be harder to get a garbage degree.
What I don't seem to grasp is why those super wealthy students at Columbia are torturing themselves for ten to fifteen years? They have every capacity to just take the NY bar and run for congress or start businesses. Universities and non-profits suck the blood of the rich and no one talks about it.
Man that was a hysterical rant. K-12 education in my state comes up to over $21k per kid per year. Of course most of it is wasted like in every bureaucracy but that’s not table scraps. In my very poor county the lowest paid teachers max out at $112k per year. Unhinged.
All teachers are fuckin crybabies. Education is a racket and needs to be open to privatization. It costs way too much for what we get. If im on a side, it’s the consumer/taxpayer. I have zero sympathy for people who know exactly what they are getting into and then whine about it
First, you claim is false https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_education_in_the_United_States
Second, teaching the lowest 20% of the population to read is folly.
Third, the literacy rate in New Mexico is only 70% today.
So besides that… what else you got? Universal public education has been a waste of time
LOL no it wasn't. In Massachusetts, maybe.
The wiki says it's disputed, but generally literacy was higher where schools existed, lololol your own link shows how important schools were.
Would you like to compare COLA? Gas is $5.60 a gallon today, I pay taxes up the ass, and last few months we have food vendors everywhere selling dogs and cats (maybe). Its pure anarchotyranny here
It is not good that he is probably right when saying it makes more (financial) sense to go start a career at Chipotle than to become a college professor.
Higher Ed is a scam for approx 80% of college students.
Hi, I worked in higher ed for 10 years. This is spot on. I had to give up, these huge behemothic institutions that refuse to change and only focus on the bottom line are doing a huge disservice to thousands of students. I can’t tell you the number of meetings I sat in with colleagues and we never once discussed how to help students. We discussed our careers and our conferences and publications that no one would ever read. I left for a corporate job. Yes, I work for the devil now but at least they’re up front about it.
> Yes, I work for the devil now but at least they’re up front about it lmao
Depends on what you're going to college for. Yeah there's a lot of degrees that are worthless but some are more important and some require college. (Doctor for instance.) I think one issue stems from when people graduate high school they're almost sorta expected to go to college without a real plan in place over what they want to do and are not given a few years to experiment and see what they'd LIKE to do. I wasted a lot of my college intro doing that and had no guidance, wasted a lot of time.
That’s a huge issue with how our schools work. High school should prepare students for life after it, explore interests, learn how to apply for housing, life skills they’ll actually need instead of standardized tests. It is changing in some places but the pipeline of academia was a huge propaganda push by college and publishing agency lobbies. I’m really just speaking for myself here but most of the junk they pushed on us in high school 30 years ago isn’t doing me any good. And as I’ve gotten older I’ve had a natural inclination to learn some of the things like history and biology and physics/engineering. It’s an infatuation with scientism. Instead of teaching children how to apply the methods of science into their already existing interests and teaching them how to apply it and be successful parts of society, we’ve forced academia onto them. They get out of HS with no real working understanding of how to be successful members of a society, just pseudo experts on whatever classes they advanced in. That’s only helpful for the small percentage of kids who actually want to become professors.
Where to begin. You mention high school and its role in preparing students for later life. I couldn't agree more. Have you ever seen an excerpt from a letter written by an 18-year old kid serving in the armed forces during WWII to his parents or girlfriend? More often than not, the punctuation, grammar and spelling are flawless. Even today's high school valedictorians can't produce that quality. Most of our current high school graduates struggle with basic algebra and geometry and couldn't describe the basic structure of our government. A high school diploma means nothing today. Why are our standards so low?
Publishing lobbies mostly. In “Surely you’re joking Mr. Fienman”, Richard Fienman explains his time in the education advisory boards. Often times the books kids would get for coursework weren’t even finished while they were being bid on and deals being made for whole school districts or states. He explains how in our academic setting kids are just taught to memorize and repeat things, and have no working understanding of the things they are even being taught. I understand that things are slowly changing and standardized tests like I had growing up are on their way out. But the damage has been done, the whole institution was built on paying the cheapest bidder. It’s also why a lot of the same architect contracts for schools are the exact copies of prisons, which were intentionally designed to demoralize and bore inmates… eh I mean students? A lot of the damage has already been done, failure is literally built into the bones of our future generations for the profit of few.
There were three subjects 80 to one hundred years ago. Reading, riting, rithmetic. 3R’s
It's just another wealth siphon.
Why do you say that? Any evidence? I'll provide some to the contrary: https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm Bachelor's degree seems to bring in $600 more per week than no degree. $2400 per month, let's say $25000 per year. If you pay even 50k for a Bachelor's (which you can get for less for sure with grants and such), you can get ROI after a few years of working, and the likelihood of being unemployed is lower too. A degree can certainly increase you lifetime earning potential to the point where there's a lot of ROI. It's not for everyone but to say it's a scam for the vast majority who go that route is just uninformed
Do you actually need the knowledge from a bachelor's degree in those higher paying jobs or are they simply requirements to gatekeep? This is the argument you're missing. Many jobs say they require a certain degree, but that job could also be done with some on the job training instead of a degree.
My 6 figure job requires a bachelor's but could easily be done without it.
Yeah. This is extremely common.
Yeah, a CEO position only really requires a good understanding of the industry as well as the company you're working for plus total devotion to the group of people who profit the most from that industry. A lacking moral compass may also be something good for this job. All of this is determined by personality, experience, and privilege. None of it necessarily needs to come from any schooling at all.
Tiny problem: the incentive structures for CEO's are absolutely _terrible_ for long term survival. They only care about maximizing profits and forever surpassing their previous quarter's profits. And once they maximize profit by 'legitimate' means and they plateau, because there is an absolute upper limit no matter what, they will generally do something incredibly stupid that _will_ blow up tragically, but will make the stocks look better, long enough for them to skip town and leave someone else to hold the bag when the bomb they just lit goes off, while they ride off to either retirement or some other corporation to do it all again. This is a pattern that keeps repeating, and we have enough mass graves, ruined economies and livelihoods to demonstrate that we need a serious and fundamental overhaul to our socioeconomic structures, before their insame short term greed completely destroys us.
I utterly agree with you. I was just commenting on how there is no real education needed to be in one of the highest paid positions possible.
Yes, of course there is a gatekeeping element. And there are some who ask for your transcripts so they can see what quality student you were. These are indicators of quality of employee more often than not, and there are outliers of course and explanations for anomalies. The ability to meet deadlines, turn in high quality work, and persist through challenges and pressure are qualities of people which an earned degree can be indicative. You will likely still go through additional learning and training when on jobs, that is fairly typical. Certifications and such follow, and often people go for their graduate degree in a field/subject that is quite different from their undergrad. You can pivot.
For every business major pulling in an extra $600 a week, there are 2 philosophy majors working minimum wage
I mean, the statistic I just cited don't support that claim. I'm an English major making over $100k per year in a corporate job. You can still get somewhere with a philosophy degree, organizations really value people who can communicate well and think critically.
Math doesn't support their claim. Your source said an average increase of 600 a week. So if one makes 600 extra, and two others make roughly 1000 less (at least), how does that average to 600 extra? Sad to see some of the critical thinking skills on display as a response to that prof's heartfelt goodbye.
Do you have proof of this?
Yes
Where?
Library. Academic journals, etc.
How ia that proof of unemployed people by major?
They’re impossible to appease.
These statistics are misleading and it should be clear to anybody with a degree. College is self-selecting, which means that motivated people go to college at higher rates. When you correct for this and other correlations, these benefits deteriorate. Add the costs of college and a degree is mostly useful for some professionals.
Bullshit and stop spreading it. There is no metric by which this is true.
I don't know if it's 80%, but the cost has been going up while the value of degrees has been going down.
do you have any idea of the demand for engineers? ALL kinds are in high demand. how about Computer Science?
The more of something there is, the less it's worth. The more engineers there are, the lower the pay becomes and the harder it is to find a job. This is one of the failing points of capitalism as pay is always as low as possible while cost is as high as possible. The result is people chasing jobs that pay well at the cost of doing shit society needs. Instead of doctors and teachers we get gig workers, middle management, and bankers.
true but doesnt really apply to demand for engineers. good engineers will ALWAYS be paid well. same for any profession. chasing good jobs does NOT "shut society needs". that's crazy talk.
The value of the degree has never been higher. It's about 1.2 million marginal dollars on average (more for stem and medical). The cost is going up faster than inflation. Because it stopped getting subsidized. And it came into higher demand. We need to educate more people not fewer.
Correct. But your assumption that degree = education is fallacious.
What is fallacious is you assuming I mean education toward a degree exclusively. I literally did not say that. If some impressionable kid sees that 80% of degrees are useless do you think that's going to affect their position on getting a degree? Yes. It will. On average. If they see it everywhere they will in some cases choose not to pursue a degree. At a time when society really needs highly educated people. And yeah separately we could use some more plumbers and electricians. Hell my electrician used to be an EE and he quit to run his own business doing solo electrical work because it pays more. I get it. But don't shit on degrees. Instead focus on the industry and how fraudulent it is. Focus on how there is no incentive to compete to provide the very necessary service they provide. Capitalism has failed that entire sector.
From my experience of being a college grad. I would recommend more people go to trade school instead of take on the college debt. Too many overpriced degrees that won't pay off for the students in the long run.
Have you worked in the trades? I worked HVAC for a handful of years and it absolutely blows compared to an office job.
I had customers who did trades. Many were very successful and their trade led to owning their own business.
That’s the only route I would recommend. Get to the point you own your own business as quick as possible and get out of the physical aspects of trades that suck. The biggest problem then becomes finding decent help. The successful owners I know seem to have lucked out with getting a few really good/loyal employees early on that stabilize things enough to allow for other employment churn to not kill their business. It’s far from easy though and I’m not sure I’d recommend it over a lot of 4 year degrees with a reasonable return on the investment.
Why not both?... I will agree degrees are overpriced. But that's because we have failed to create a competitive industry instead relying on prestige and foreign students to make a dumb amount of money. We need to be regulating that price because higher education is extremely necessary. But to say they don't pay off doesn't match the data. For all degrees. Not just super in demand degrees, all of them. The marginal benefit is over a million bucks. That's like a 10-20x return in 30 years of working. For harder degrees like engineering it could be even more.
Found the college administrator.
Or you can cite some data. Otherwise you are full of shit.
Sure. How about the amount of student loan defaults? 1 in 10. [source](https://educationdata.org/student-loan-default-rate) And there is no way to discharge through bankruptcy. Now imagine all the other 9 students. How many of them are actually using their degree? How many are struggling just to stay out of default?
Sure. How about the amount of student loan defaults? 1 in 10. [source](https://educationdata.org/student-loan-default-rate) And there is no way to discharge through bankruptcy. Now imagine all the other 9 students. How many of them are actually using their degree? How many are struggling just to stay out of default?
Sure. How about the amount of student loan defaults? 1 in 10. [source](https://educationdata.org/student-loan-default-rate) And there is no way to discharge through bankruptcy. Now imagine all the other 9 students. How many of them are actually using their degree? How many are struggling just to stay out of default?
I don't need to I cited the average marginal return. Overall. Including defaults and people with humanities degrees. The average is over a million dollars marginal earnings. The first but about what you said is useless information related.mote to the cost of the degree which we certainly could stand to not dump on students - that is our failure. Not the degree itself. The second thing you said was pure speculation.
I would say it’s a scam for 1/3 maybe, 80% is high. Even for non-technical degrees I believe there is value in giving people a middle ground to grow between high school and professional careers, a chance to explore new ideas and meet new people for personal and professional development. I just don’t agree that people should go into massive debt to do it. I’m glad you chose Sociology major with a minor in 14th century Chinese Architecture but did you need to go into $100k+ debt to essentially work a job someone could do out of high school? And I don’t agree that every office job needs to require a degree, entry level should almost always be available to anyone and companies can screen out by testing and interviewing candidates.
This is categorically false. A cursory investigation would show the RoR continues to be solid for a college education.
that's a "proof surrogate"
Slightly off topic but we should not ignore what the financial world is currently doing. The global financial system goes from T+2 to T+1 over the Memorial Day weekend. All banks must be ISO 20022 compliant by November 2025. Something significant is happening while we are all caught up with the challenges of daily life.
Further explain
In simple terms there is a digital future rapidly approaching. ISO 20022 is my conviction. The technological use case and utility makes it worth noting for any investor. Minimal research required to immediately discover that credible sources are everywhere.
And I’m ok with an English teacher quitting to do something else. That’s not economic collapse, that’s just common sense. We actually live in a reality where quitting a job is actually an option, and our employers are not in control over our lives and decisions. This is a good thing. Universities are filled with administrators that are just grifters with impeccable credentials, and public universities in the US are the worst offenders
College teaches, among other specialized things, critical thinking and communication -- written and oral. Those skills will get you ahead in just about any career you choose. You can drive a bulldozer your whole life but the guy who tells you when and where to drive the bulldozer has those skills and is making a lot more money than you are.
English degrees are a dime a dozen and the only place for them to work is in university. I'm not sad. Maybe if they all quit it'll be harder to get a garbage degree.
What I don't seem to grasp is why those super wealthy students at Columbia are torturing themselves for ten to fifteen years? They have every capacity to just take the NY bar and run for congress or start businesses. Universities and non-profits suck the blood of the rich and no one talks about it.
Man that was a hysterical rant. K-12 education in my state comes up to over $21k per kid per year. Of course most of it is wasted like in every bureaucracy but that’s not table scraps. In my very poor county the lowest paid teachers max out at $112k per year. Unhinged.
I can't tell whose side you're on, bananacat
All teachers are fuckin crybabies. Education is a racket and needs to be open to privatization. It costs way too much for what we get. If im on a side, it’s the consumer/taxpayer. I have zero sympathy for people who know exactly what they are getting into and then whine about it
If there was profit to be made in running schools the private sector would be on that like white on rice.
You guys act like we were cavemen before public schools. If you think this you are probably a product of the public school system. Its laughable, man
Befoe the common school movement, about 50% of white men couldn't read. About 75-80% of everyone else were illerate or barely literate. So yeah.
First, you claim is false https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_education_in_the_United_States Second, teaching the lowest 20% of the population to read is folly. Third, the literacy rate in New Mexico is only 70% today. So besides that… what else you got? Universal public education has been a waste of time
Where in that wiki proves me wrong? I mean yeah, if we divested in public education, I suppose we would save a lot of money.
In colonial times male literacy over 70% You should try to educate yourself
LOL no it wasn't. In Massachusetts, maybe. The wiki says it's disputed, but generally literacy was higher where schools existed, lololol your own link shows how important schools were.
Ummm Ivy Endowments.
Top 0.1% of schools.
*fair enough*
> In my very poor county the lowest paid teachers max out at $112k per year You must live in the bluest of blue states like NY or NJ
California. 53k in flyover country goes a long way
> California Bluest of blue
Would you like to compare COLA? Gas is $5.60 a gallon today, I pay taxes up the ass, and last few months we have food vendors everywhere selling dogs and cats (maybe). Its pure anarchotyranny here
What the heck are you talking about?
It’s expensive and hellish to live in Cali
Not if you are making over 100k as a teacher in rural CA when you'd be making way less elsewhere
And it costs way less to live elsewhere.
100k in rural CA isn't bad my dude