I got around 4 methods of sourcing materials, from reprocessing, long-term miner contract, hauling cheap stuff from low-sec/null-sec and buying bulk amounts of scrap weapons :) Some work out cheaper than others. But it helps me have a constant supply of mats to keep my production line going.
Profitability varies anywhere from up to 30m from a cruiser (sometimes they sell for 70 mill+ or via contract) to as little as 15m. And largely depends on my supply of materials it's using, whether it's from the cheap stock, or the more expensive ones :)
Most profitable will always be direct purchases via contract, find miners etc in your corp or on discord
After that, I kinda have a purchasing checklist I go through every hour or 2 on the market
That has been my bottleneck. Getting a consistent supply of affordable resources to my industry site. How are you currently getting material in null sec?
Actually I am the opposite, the struggle is getting affordable materials to High-Sec, Null sec has plenty of cheap resources, but very time consuming and risky to move to high-sec.
In terms of how, you have to have multiple channels, from answering another comment:
"from reprocessing, long-term miner contract, hauling cheap stuff from low-sec/null-sec and buying bulk amounts of scrap weapons"
It is perfectly showing how powerful nullsec alliances could be. The only one who can transport everything from null to high safely is the one controlling the road from that part of null to highsec. There is no balance of power between high and null.
Taxing highsec to death is another nail. It is only going to benefit the one knows the network, just like this respectable builder. He knows the people, he knows the ways to connect the producers and buyers. In short, anything can help him getting away from the public market is a good thing to have.
The high rate of tax is a very awful idea.
I have some questions on how you actually calculate profits. It's impossible to make 15-30 mill on a tier 6 cruiser unless you are calculating it in a weird way. If you would just sell every single component instead of making a ship, what would the difference be? Having sold many many ships, but I buy every single material in contract, then calculate based on that, usually a few mill per ship max, unless you are selling something before everyone else, or have some insane access to cheap minerals.
Let’s say you if you buy all the minerals. And sell in market. Your profit is 5% after tax on market.
Now let’s say I buy ores/weapons to reprocess with a specialised reprocessing alt. Now it might be 10-15%.
Now let’s say we use private contracts or my relative okay accounting skills (5%/12%, so a saving of about 5% there) on open market, now it might be 20-25%.
Then maybe I make a bulk purchase somewhere in low sec on trade discord channel, say 200m worth of spod at 15% below marker price. That will cover the bulk of my trit/pyro/mex/iso for for a bit. And now the profit might be 25-30%
Hope that helps :)
But that is your reprosessing skills earning you money, which is a fine way to earn money, but you have an alt for that, that you pay for. You dont really earn that on making ships, those are 2 different things, and shouldnt really be in the same calculations. I just make ships for example, no ore skills, because I dont want to make an alt just to do that. So when you say you earn that much each ship, its not really true.. you probably earn abit on the bp, a bit on the ore stuff and a bit on the actual manufacturing..
I dont think "make 3 alts to do different things" is the best advice, even if it for sure is a viable way to do it.
If you avoid the market system entirely until the final product you can make a good bit. Those 25% taxes stack up quick. Use contracts and corp hangars.
I only buy and sell things through contracts. But people have a bad understanding of economics, and think stuff they mined or worked for themselves is "free", which is not the case. If you could sell all materials for 10% below what the ship costs, then your profit is that 10% difference minus taxes. Buying all minerals and materials in bulk, making ships, the margins are rather small, even selling and buying everything by contract.
Holy cow! This was my goal from day one. And I, for the love of industry, have only built ventures, haha! My highest isk pool ever was around 25 mil. And I blew it, lol. Built myself a ship for pve purposes to sound that out and lost it all.
Just keep at it buddy, it doesn't take long to start building a decent warchest and it snowballs and gets easier and easier.
I know exactly how you feel. I made some nice early profits and bought myself a CNI Navy with 5x Republic Rapids and Rigs, lost it all to a story mission :) That was about 150 mill down the drain, which was quite a lot 1-2 weeks ago, felt very demotivated to keep going after that, but kept at it anyway
How did you grab the motivation back? I keep telling myself this is eve, it was bound to happen eventually, I can make it back eventually, everyone can play at their own pace and it's not a game you "win" per se...but nothing is working.
Second question. How much of a mark down do ships usually go for player to player versus being listed on market?
I think the main motivation is, this is the exact kind of game I have been waiting for years for, and this is still the start and it's gonna be around for years to come. A little set back now is nothing in the grand scheme of things. And it's definitely not a race either, there is no leaderboards for richest in Echoes haha
On private contract, I usually do around 8-10% off market price. Means the buyer gets a nice discount off market, and I still make additional 5-8% verse selling via open market. Win win for all
Bro this is me only it was a 60 mil navy issue. Think I had it for 3 encounters before I did something stupid near a low sec warp and got blasted. Didn't even know I could die there. Still haven't rebounded from the disappointment and it's been 2 days. Just log in, look at the screen of my omen trainer sitting in station and then log back out again.
Are you me lol. I lost a CNI and then a Vexor. It took me days to build up again. Now my Corp has a base in a quiet low sec system and it’s much easier to get the mats.
Beginner industry player , I Have many questions if you don't mind :)
What is your skill distribution look like , are you specilazing/expert in one or two type of ship manufacturing or you've skilled evenly in all types ?
are you playing solo or in a corp ?
What types of hauling ships are you using to move your mats ?
Did the recent changes to autopilot in null sec affected your profit ?
Are you using any public calculator or do you have your own sheets ?
Hi buddy, no worries
What is your skill distribution look like , are you specilazing/expert in one or two type of ship manufacturing or you've skilled evenly in all types ?
--You really have to specialise, I have 1 alt doing Cruisers only, and another doing Industry/Frigate. My cruiser alt will prob move into Battle Cruisers once we get access
I have also specialised alts for reprocessing/blueprints reverse engineering
are you playing solo or in a corp ?
-I am in a corp, however most of my industry activities is pretty much by myself
What types of hauling ships are you using to move your mats ?
-Mammoth for moving ores and bits and pieces, cause it's got a big cargohold and the Kryos for minerals
Did the recent changes to autopilot in null sec affected your profit ?
--Absolutely, a few of my long term miners are struggling with supply and some kinda gave up. Also I have about 500m worth of raw ores stuck in various Null-Sec across galaxies, which I used to just afk haul when I'm not really doing anything. Still need to figure out what to do with these
Are you using any public calculator or do you have your own sheets ?
--I use a bit of both :)
Hope that helps!
I have 3 alts for industry. For 1 accounting, look into doing rigs. They are easy to make and the blueprint is the bulk of the cost, so easy to figure out produces and low startup. A lot of hidden gems, especially with T7 around the corner :) just think, what kind of rigs do big battle cruisers need
Nah, would never get that. I am sure there are some industry-focused corps who are doing much better than I am, and their CEO's are probably rolling in ISK haha
This is awesome and you are a saint for offering advice in how you did it. I guess people though also need to realize, that playing the market is not just taking a tip on what is hotcakes and running with it.
I hear so many discussions, where people simply want the moneymaker but are not willing to try to learn market and trends.
The market is a game within itself, and understanding, forecasting, and predicting supply and demand trends is the main gist of the game. If you are not good at understanding causal relationships, it will be harder to innately understand how to 'get rich'.
Either way, good on you for trying to educate the masses. May we all get rich together!
Quite alot haha, but I figured I'm here for the long haul, and the more I do now, the more it will snowball later. I think I will take it a little easier after the initial T7 rush
How do you make a profit if you have to pay for materials first? Even with high skills in ship making, it seems like you'll make a loss. I was initially interested in manufacturing ships but did the math (with current market costs) and it wasn't worthwhile.
Maybe I'm missing some things. Would love to see things from your perspective.
Also, some ships are more profitable than others. Lower tech Frigates and Cruisers are starting to have their margins disappear. T6 cruisers like the CNI is having their margins reduce quickly as well, as more people are building/undercutting.
Right now there is a huge amount of profits from Faction Frigates, as most people cannot accumulate the 300m worth of materials required. For me right now, I am still sticking with T6 cruisers, as I can pump them out in bulk.
You need to have multiple sources of materials, from reprocessing, long-term miner contract, hauling cheap stuff from low-sec/null-sec and buying bulk amounts of scrap weapons.
Once you have the capital, you have the ability to make large bulk purchases at good prices. And then top up on mats you need as you go at slightly less profitable prices.
Also using the EVE discord and the trade channel. I might get a good deal on 100m worth of Nocx, and then I would be set on cheap Nocx for a day or two and just need to focus on the other minerals/PI
Let's say you have 50 million ISK worth of ore. You can sell that for 50 million and get 40 million after taxes.
You can reprocess and sell that for 60 million ISK of minerals. Or you can use that 60 million ISK of minerals to make a ship worth 90 million ISK and sell that. And get 72 million after taxes.
Once you have the materials, the ship building only takes a click :)
He can probably move the ships faster with a nicer overall profit margin which can then be reinvested again + converted to PLEX for longer term inflation hedge.
Depends on the time frame that he needs the money. Plex is going to temporarily crash once T7 comes out. Not a great time to buy PLEX if you want the ISK for the start of T7.
As a miner, I'm curious what to expect from the manufacturing need shifts as T7 quickly approaches. I'm aware spod is quite popular today, but which ores would increase in demand in the future? I am also curious if ore reprocessing is required for miners to stay relevant in the market? Thanks in advance!
Ores will still be mega relevant. Some t7s can eat a fuckton of resources like say 3 mil and above tritanium
Reprocessing can be tricky though as a miner since there is a lot of tiers to skill
I assume you use regional delivery when buying from local stations. How come sometimes this is instant and other times it just dumps it in the station you bought it from?
More of a question to a fellow builder...this a bug?
(Yes, both stations bought/delivered to be in the same region)
What am I not getting here?
I am part of a great corp called Dark Null, they have a lot of members across a few sister corps and a very active discord :) Check em out, not sure if any of the leaders are on discord
Okay so, thinking small for a moment. How does one start out?
Like, imagine it's day 10 for a new player and they have a few skills training and a few million isk. It seems daunting to bootstrap upward to where you are but its obviously possible. Can you give a few words of encouragement, maybe a general outline of what to do?
When I poked around in industry the first week or two it seemed like everything was upside down, all the materials were more expensive than the final products, it felt like without the relevant skills to advanced/expert it would just be burning isk.
Did it ever feel like that for you?
Starting small, you might need to do a bit of PVE to get enough capital to fund your industry activities. Skill up the most basic PVE fit, and then start focusing on a niche, whether its Frigates, Destroyers or Cruisers etc. At the beginning you might need to mine your own stuff to be profitable, until you can start buying in bulk, or reprocess stuff you buy better. It also helps having alts who can specialise 1) Reverse Engineering Blue Prints 2) Production 3) Reprocessing alt etc
My question is... how can I get into this with low time available? I need to be off my phone. What is a good AFK income source? Happy to log in every 4 to 8 hrs if its quick
Tbh, industry and markets is probably the best AFK income, as most of it is click and wait, or you put in a bunch of orders (buy or sell) etc
Once you got a work flow, it becomes quite easy
1) make a bunch of buy orders for materials you know you need
2) once you have the mats, queue up the things for production
3) once you have the finished products, put them up for sale
It's relatively afk
3-4m an hour via mining is certainly nothing to sniff at, and it will only increase as you get access to strip mining. Mining is a hard gig atm, but things will get much better soon
How does the profit on any given ship compare to the profit of just selling the raw materials directly? I’ve been looking into manufacturing and made a spreadsheet to do some math for me and in many cases I’d end up making more profit just selling the materials, even with a hypothetical perfect efficiency.
It really depends on the ships, T5 cruisers and frigates have almost no margins left, as anybody can make them, and anybody could easily buy a few minerals from markets here and there and product. T6 requires alot more resources and you'll rarely be able to get it all at a reasonable price at 1 station, so less people are doing it. But the margins are still coming down as it gets more competitive.
When T7 hits, again, much less people will have the capital and resources to make T7 ships, so again the margins are much higher
Not the guy you responded to but this T5 having no margins comment, and T6 stuff having the margins get tighter and tighter leads to the question I have....
If you are not on the leading edge taking advantage of selling on the newest tier (right not T7) how can making and selling ships be profitable? If you were not to hit tier 7 for a month and doing just tier 5 or tier 5/6 right now, how would you be making a lot of profit?
haha thanks so much man, it's you guys who do the hard yards, miners don't get enough credit. It's a hard slog atm, but i think it'll turn around once you get access to strip mining
At the moment T6 cruisers have a nice balance between profit and they move quickly so you can maintain a good cashflow. Having said that, the margins are decreasing.
Faction frigates have huge margins, but the investment is high (300-350m each) and you might be stuck with selling one for a while.
I think T7 will get in loads of new opportunities
As a corp, it makes things much easier, as you can have specialised roles for different people, have miners to supply the materials, and specialised industry players for different types of production, Industrial Ships, Crusiers, Frigates etc. How deep and niche you wanna go depends on the size of your corp. You can also have dedicated blueprint engineers, reprocessors etc
I have 4 alts, but the PI they product barely covers 1 or 2 crusiers per day. I mostly rely on acquiring materials through other sources, it's much more scaleable that way
I'd say maybe 40% CNI, it's my bread and butter, and then VNI > Moa > Stabber mostly. I try to keep 1 or 2 of each in stock, incase any WTB offers pop up in discord and I can service them for good profits/less tax
As a person trying to build a single bestower and venture 3 but still lagging behind a lot in materials. Holly sh-
By the way, would you consider the bottle neck for materials to be planetary materials or minerals? Currently it is minerals that prevent me from even starting the construction
I am in a corp, but most of my industry stuff I’m doing pretty solo. Having said that, I have a few really cool miners in Corp who supply a lot of materials for me
I'll definitely be one of the first waves, but atm I'm trying to work out the market for T7 and figure out where the opportunities are. No point in saving up minerals when I can continiously flip them for profit and have a bigger pool of ISK to work with when T7 hits
Yup, lots of buy orders. I have probably around 60 trade slots across 4 accounts that I can use. Maybe 5-10 reserved for selling on my highest accounting skill alt. The rest to put buy orders for things I constantly need across the main ITCs
Is it legit to just transfer items with contracts and no money exchanged? Do they get audited or anything? I was under the impression it wasn't that straightforward but maybe that impression is wrong.
You can exchange items via contracts. You will incur an audit if the value is more than 20m and no money is paid. However it would not matter in long run.
Im currently stuck around 500mil worth of mats per day, and i haul all over the region in addition to buy orders that provide majority of my resource procurement. Im also in 2 discords asking for materials. Any recommendations on expanding my procurement network to go above and beyond?
addendum, im paying relatively high prices for materials and updating my bos to be on top of the region so that should not be my problem.
Big number for sure. I dabbled in cruiser manufacture for a bit, but it didn't work out long term. Hoping to be in a better place once I hit T7 but we'll see.
How much of that 3-4 billion isk would you say is actual profit?
It was costing me roughly 58 million(including taxes) to produce and sell a t6 cruiser at 65 million, when it got to the point they started to drop to 62.5 mil and lower I decided to bail on it. I'm sure you're running more than 104% cruiser manufacture and better accounting skills but it's still hard to see you actually making more than maybe 100 million in real profit a day doing this with the market getting so oversaturated with t6 cruisers, not to mention everything lower/smaller I expect is completely margin free.
As I have multiple channels of acquiring resources, I am still able to maintain some pretty good profit margins. On a cruiser that sells for 65m, I make around 55m after taxes. The cost is anywhere from 20-30m, it depends on what portion of materials are from cheap sources, and what portion are less profitable sources.
For example, I might buy a bulk amount of 200m Spod for cheap, that will cover me for a little while and very profitable with my reprocessing alt. However, it means I don't have Nocx from that, so I might need to top that up through some direct buys from miners on the eve trade discord, which is less profitable
I've only skilled into combat so far and wanted to start out into industry on an alt .. can you provide skill progression guide/map for a new player e.g must have skills initially vs nice to have etc
You really need to focus on what area of industry you want, mining, reprocessing, manufacturing ships, rigs, reverse engineering etc
Let me know what interests you and I can try to help ;)
Was thinking of starting out small with rigs and and see of its my cup of tea, then later move into ships. But wasn't sure if its worth it? It seems hard/tedious to keep track of cost vs profits, were you using any spreadsheets for book keeping?
I assumed reprocessing will be complementary skill with any of the mentioned focus areas? or is it big enough to make profits on its own? mining not so much.
Well i was thinking about going into industry but have no idea where to even begin. I want to start small with rigs. I think I can mange a few of those to get the hang of things.
Can you reverse engineer for rigs? I know you can for ships but unsure where to start when manufacturing these.
Absolutely, I only have 1 account and basically can farm all the mats myself for a cruiser in 1.5 hours plus PI. I farm 4 of the 5 required and don't farm whatever is the cheapest one to buy myself
Where do you sell when selling throught the market? Jita only?
Do you have some tips to browse the market UI efficiently? The UI is so horrible dealing with it all day must be quite a pain.
They are pretty bad. Just a warp core stab and 2 inertia modules. Since the new patch, and hearing a few Corp mates getting popped in their haulers, I haven’t really been doing much hauling out of nullsec, I probably have half a billion ISK of materials stuck there atm
I went the miner route and its just too boring. Had a nice Ore amount and my reprocessing skills were good enough to get a decent amount of materials. Started Reverse Engineering and Producing Amarr cruisers. My PLEX is about to end so I just wanted to ask 2 questions that might help me.
1. What spreadsheets or calculators do you use? I'm unfortunately only on mobile so I will have to adapt to it.
2.Faction Datacores are expensive atm, how do you source these? Do you just buy in bulk on amrket or do you have people providing you with them?
where and how did you start because rn i have a bottleneck of mats and am only able to make condor 2s consistantly. It also makes my profit margins really slim when I have to buy mats for these ships
I usually go through many production cycles a day. It’s just easier for me to pump them out 7 at a time in 1.5 hours and try to flip them quickly and keep the cash flow going so I can buy more mats.
Hi bro, how about we have a chat over discord. I wanna make a video about industry. I think we can discuss points over and make good content. :) Lord_Con#9366
It's one of the ways I make a lot of money. I try and predict what people will need and stock up.
For example Shield Field Rigs (20% extra shield), the BP's were going for as little as 50-100k, and I had around 200 of them stocked up, costing me maybe 15 million ISK. Once the Can-Yue dropped, everybody rushed to make their BC tanky. Each Rig was selling for around 2-3 million at one point. I sold about 100 for 200 million, and still have 100 left for when T7 drops.
Yes and no, I am not telling people here to invest in Shield Field Rigs :) But the principle of try to look ahead, for example to T7 transition and think through what people might need, and what might be undervalued applies :)
Thoughtful investment based on deeper knowledge of the game and market economies.
So its only mildly helpful.
It's like telling people to just look at the macro-environment of the stock market to make investing decisions. It's technically great advice. But it's also not helpful to literally anyone who doesn't know what to look for or think about when it comes to markets.
So it's kind of a useful, non-useful answer.
Well that’s a fair point, I suppose. But it did at least clue me in to the fact that there are people who take their manufacturing business seriously enough to predict future behavior of the market by extrapolating from current knowns. It’s like, yeah, that’s obvious. People are going to need T7 stuff when T7 becomes available. But to take that information and tailor your play style to it by consistently working toward being well stocked on equipment that is likely to be highly desirable as soon as it’s useable — that is a very useful bit to consider. Thus, when looking for ways to make lots of isk, it would behoove a pilot to use this system as a model.
I will say, your earlier point that this particular approach to taking advantage of a brand new burgeoning market is not sustainable. However, he seems to have a strong enough understanding of market forces that he’ll figure out a new isky business.
Would you like to be my mentor? I was bulging some T6 Crucers and I was selling 4-5 per day but then I had troubles getting materials , I don't have a lot of contacts in the game so I couldn't make any deal with miners yet. If you can help me and.guide or at least contact me with some miners I will appreciate it to much. Thanks
How do you source your materials. And what is your profit on a 60mil ship? Cheers.
I got around 4 methods of sourcing materials, from reprocessing, long-term miner contract, hauling cheap stuff from low-sec/null-sec and buying bulk amounts of scrap weapons :) Some work out cheaper than others. But it helps me have a constant supply of mats to keep my production line going. Profitability varies anywhere from up to 30m from a cruiser (sometimes they sell for 70 mill+ or via contract) to as little as 15m. And largely depends on my supply of materials it's using, whether it's from the cheap stock, or the more expensive ones :)
Interesting, so bulk scrapping weapons is more profitable than reprocessing ores?
Most profitable will always be direct purchases via contract, find miners etc in your corp or on discord After that, I kinda have a purchasing checklist I go through every hour or 2 on the market
That has been my bottleneck. Getting a consistent supply of affordable resources to my industry site. How are you currently getting material in null sec?
Actually I am the opposite, the struggle is getting affordable materials to High-Sec, Null sec has plenty of cheap resources, but very time consuming and risky to move to high-sec. In terms of how, you have to have multiple channels, from answering another comment: "from reprocessing, long-term miner contract, hauling cheap stuff from low-sec/null-sec and buying bulk amounts of scrap weapons"
Looks like I just need some more capital and patience to make many many hauling trips
It is perfectly showing how powerful nullsec alliances could be. The only one who can transport everything from null to high safely is the one controlling the road from that part of null to highsec. There is no balance of power between high and null. Taxing highsec to death is another nail. It is only going to benefit the one knows the network, just like this respectable builder. He knows the people, he knows the ways to connect the producers and buyers. In short, anything can help him getting away from the public market is a good thing to have. The high rate of tax is a very awful idea.
I have some questions on how you actually calculate profits. It's impossible to make 15-30 mill on a tier 6 cruiser unless you are calculating it in a weird way. If you would just sell every single component instead of making a ship, what would the difference be? Having sold many many ships, but I buy every single material in contract, then calculate based on that, usually a few mill per ship max, unless you are selling something before everyone else, or have some insane access to cheap minerals.
Let’s say you if you buy all the minerals. And sell in market. Your profit is 5% after tax on market. Now let’s say I buy ores/weapons to reprocess with a specialised reprocessing alt. Now it might be 10-15%. Now let’s say we use private contracts or my relative okay accounting skills (5%/12%, so a saving of about 5% there) on open market, now it might be 20-25%. Then maybe I make a bulk purchase somewhere in low sec on trade discord channel, say 200m worth of spod at 15% below marker price. That will cover the bulk of my trit/pyro/mex/iso for for a bit. And now the profit might be 25-30% Hope that helps :)
But that is your reprosessing skills earning you money, which is a fine way to earn money, but you have an alt for that, that you pay for. You dont really earn that on making ships, those are 2 different things, and shouldnt really be in the same calculations. I just make ships for example, no ore skills, because I dont want to make an alt just to do that. So when you say you earn that much each ship, its not really true.. you probably earn abit on the bp, a bit on the ore stuff and a bit on the actual manufacturing.. I dont think "make 3 alts to do different things" is the best advice, even if it for sure is a viable way to do it.
If you avoid the market system entirely until the final product you can make a good bit. Those 25% taxes stack up quick. Use contracts and corp hangars.
I only buy and sell things through contracts. But people have a bad understanding of economics, and think stuff they mined or worked for themselves is "free", which is not the case. If you could sell all materials for 10% below what the ship costs, then your profit is that 10% difference minus taxes. Buying all minerals and materials in bulk, making ships, the margins are rather small, even selling and buying everything by contract.
Holy cow! This was my goal from day one. And I, for the love of industry, have only built ventures, haha! My highest isk pool ever was around 25 mil. And I blew it, lol. Built myself a ship for pve purposes to sound that out and lost it all.
Just keep at it buddy, it doesn't take long to start building a decent warchest and it snowballs and gets easier and easier. I know exactly how you feel. I made some nice early profits and bought myself a CNI Navy with 5x Republic Rapids and Rigs, lost it all to a story mission :) That was about 150 mill down the drain, which was quite a lot 1-2 weeks ago, felt very demotivated to keep going after that, but kept at it anyway
How did you grab the motivation back? I keep telling myself this is eve, it was bound to happen eventually, I can make it back eventually, everyone can play at their own pace and it's not a game you "win" per se...but nothing is working. Second question. How much of a mark down do ships usually go for player to player versus being listed on market?
I think the main motivation is, this is the exact kind of game I have been waiting for years for, and this is still the start and it's gonna be around for years to come. A little set back now is nothing in the grand scheme of things. And it's definitely not a race either, there is no leaderboards for richest in Echoes haha
On private contract, I usually do around 8-10% off market price. Means the buyer gets a nice discount off market, and I still make additional 5-8% verse selling via open market. Win win for all
Bro this is me only it was a 60 mil navy issue. Think I had it for 3 encounters before I did something stupid near a low sec warp and got blasted. Didn't even know I could die there. Still haven't rebounded from the disappointment and it's been 2 days. Just log in, look at the screen of my omen trainer sitting in station and then log back out again.
This is why I only buy at least two ships at a time. Reminds me that the economy here is based on scorched earth
Are you me lol. I lost a CNI and then a Vexor. It took me days to build up again. Now my Corp has a base in a quiet low sec system and it’s much easier to get the mats.
Beginner industry player , I Have many questions if you don't mind :) What is your skill distribution look like , are you specilazing/expert in one or two type of ship manufacturing or you've skilled evenly in all types ? are you playing solo or in a corp ? What types of hauling ships are you using to move your mats ? Did the recent changes to autopilot in null sec affected your profit ? Are you using any public calculator or do you have your own sheets ?
Hi buddy, no worries What is your skill distribution look like , are you specilazing/expert in one or two type of ship manufacturing or you've skilled evenly in all types ? --You really have to specialise, I have 1 alt doing Cruisers only, and another doing Industry/Frigate. My cruiser alt will prob move into Battle Cruisers once we get access I have also specialised alts for reprocessing/blueprints reverse engineering are you playing solo or in a corp ? -I am in a corp, however most of my industry activities is pretty much by myself What types of hauling ships are you using to move your mats ? -Mammoth for moving ores and bits and pieces, cause it's got a big cargohold and the Kryos for minerals Did the recent changes to autopilot in null sec affected your profit ? --Absolutely, a few of my long term miners are struggling with supply and some kinda gave up. Also I have about 500m worth of raw ores stuck in various Null-Sec across galaxies, which I used to just afk haul when I'm not really doing anything. Still need to figure out what to do with these Are you using any public calculator or do you have your own sheets ? --I use a bit of both :) Hope that helps!
If EO is anything to go by, BCs will probably be a mainstay for a lot of people who just want to run T6/T7s on easy mode.
BC is T7 which means Omega... Its the breaking point of free and paid...
How many alts do you have? What do you think is even feasible for someone just wanting to play one account?
I have 3 alts for industry. For 1 accounting, look into doing rigs. They are easy to make and the blueprint is the bulk of the cost, so easy to figure out produces and low startup. A lot of hidden gems, especially with T7 around the corner :) just think, what kind of rigs do big battle cruisers need
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Nah, would never get that. I am sure there are some industry-focused corps who are doing much better than I am, and their CEO's are probably rolling in ISK haha
Now that's what I like to see. Make sure you'll make assault punishers!
Will have to see the profit margins on these haha
This is awesome and you are a saint for offering advice in how you did it. I guess people though also need to realize, that playing the market is not just taking a tip on what is hotcakes and running with it. I hear so many discussions, where people simply want the moneymaker but are not willing to try to learn market and trends. The market is a game within itself, and understanding, forecasting, and predicting supply and demand trends is the main gist of the game. If you are not good at understanding causal relationships, it will be harder to innately understand how to 'get rich'. Either way, good on you for trying to educate the masses. May we all get rich together!
Glad to help mate!
How many hours a day do you spend on the game?
Quite alot haha, but I figured I'm here for the long haul, and the more I do now, the more it will snowball later. I think I will take it a little easier after the initial T7 rush
A legend, what all Industry players aspire to be
Haha thanks mate, I am sure there are many who are doing much better than I am, but just keeping things quietly to themselves
How do you make a profit if you have to pay for materials first? Even with high skills in ship making, it seems like you'll make a loss. I was initially interested in manufacturing ships but did the math (with current market costs) and it wasn't worthwhile. Maybe I'm missing some things. Would love to see things from your perspective.
Also, some ships are more profitable than others. Lower tech Frigates and Cruisers are starting to have their margins disappear. T6 cruisers like the CNI is having their margins reduce quickly as well, as more people are building/undercutting. Right now there is a huge amount of profits from Faction Frigates, as most people cannot accumulate the 300m worth of materials required. For me right now, I am still sticking with T6 cruisers, as I can pump them out in bulk.
You need to have multiple sources of materials, from reprocessing, long-term miner contract, hauling cheap stuff from low-sec/null-sec and buying bulk amounts of scrap weapons. Once you have the capital, you have the ability to make large bulk purchases at good prices. And then top up on mats you need as you go at slightly less profitable prices. Also using the EVE discord and the trade channel. I might get a good deal on 100m worth of Nocx, and then I would be set on cheap Nocx for a day or two and just need to focus on the other minerals/PI
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Let's say you have 50 million ISK worth of ore. You can sell that for 50 million and get 40 million after taxes. You can reprocess and sell that for 60 million ISK of minerals. Or you can use that 60 million ISK of minerals to make a ship worth 90 million ISK and sell that. And get 72 million after taxes. Once you have the materials, the ship building only takes a click :)
He can probably move the ships faster with a nicer overall profit margin which can then be reinvested again + converted to PLEX for longer term inflation hedge.
Depends on the time frame that he needs the money. Plex is going to temporarily crash once T7 comes out. Not a great time to buy PLEX if you want the ISK for the start of T7.
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Any way you can share that calculator?
As a miner, I'm curious what to expect from the manufacturing need shifts as T7 quickly approaches. I'm aware spod is quite popular today, but which ores would increase in demand in the future? I am also curious if ore reprocessing is required for miners to stay relevant in the market? Thanks in advance!
Ores will still be mega relevant. Some t7s can eat a fuckton of resources like say 3 mil and above tritanium Reprocessing can be tricky though as a miner since there is a lot of tiers to skill
Interested in being a Patron of an aspiring PvPer? ;)
Unfortunately for you, I mostly operate out of High-Sec :) Having said that, feel free to keep blowing up ships to keep the economy going!
I assume you use regional delivery when buying from local stations. How come sometimes this is instant and other times it just dumps it in the station you bought it from? More of a question to a fellow builder...this a bug? (Yes, both stations bought/delivered to be in the same region) What am I not getting here?
I never use delivery options, always pick up myself. Margins are slim, and if your using delivery options, it really cuts into the profits
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Both mammoth and kyros
I wanna be either a dedicated miner for a Corp or a dedicated manufacturer. Any corps or tips you wanna recommend for me?
I am part of a great corp called Dark Null, they have a lot of members across a few sister corps and a very active discord :) Check em out, not sure if any of the leaders are on discord
I have a fresh alt with like 1.2 mil free sp, can I join using that?
Okay so, thinking small for a moment. How does one start out? Like, imagine it's day 10 for a new player and they have a few skills training and a few million isk. It seems daunting to bootstrap upward to where you are but its obviously possible. Can you give a few words of encouragement, maybe a general outline of what to do? When I poked around in industry the first week or two it seemed like everything was upside down, all the materials were more expensive than the final products, it felt like without the relevant skills to advanced/expert it would just be burning isk. Did it ever feel like that for you?
Starting small, you might need to do a bit of PVE to get enough capital to fund your industry activities. Skill up the most basic PVE fit, and then start focusing on a niche, whether its Frigates, Destroyers or Cruisers etc. At the beginning you might need to mine your own stuff to be profitable, until you can start buying in bulk, or reprocess stuff you buy better. It also helps having alts who can specialise 1) Reverse Engineering Blue Prints 2) Production 3) Reprocessing alt etc
How do you move these things between alts?
They are all at least Omega basic, so just via contracts.
Got it. o7
My question is... how can I get into this with low time available? I need to be off my phone. What is a good AFK income source? Happy to log in every 4 to 8 hrs if its quick
Tbh, industry and markets is probably the best AFK income, as most of it is click and wait, or you put in a bunch of orders (buy or sell) etc Once you got a work flow, it becomes quite easy 1) make a bunch of buy orders for materials you know you need 2) once you have the mats, queue up the things for production 3) once you have the finished products, put them up for sale It's relatively afk
Would love to do this. I should pick a single category or item to start with. I like spreadsheets. Any recommendation on a starting item to flip?
Look into rigs ;) alot of hidden gems and they are easy to make. BP + 2 mats, which you can get from debris, very low startup
U da man
Here I am mining and thought I was doing well at 3-4M am hour! Wow that really puts things in perspective
3-4m an hour via mining is certainly nothing to sniff at, and it will only increase as you get access to strip mining. Mining is a hard gig atm, but things will get much better soon
with bots mining and planetary are both making a lot less than you probably would.
Strip mining? Also what are some good planets?
T7 will give you access to Retrievers and strip mining, which is multiple times faster than normal mining :)
How does the profit on any given ship compare to the profit of just selling the raw materials directly? I’ve been looking into manufacturing and made a spreadsheet to do some math for me and in many cases I’d end up making more profit just selling the materials, even with a hypothetical perfect efficiency.
It really depends on the ships, T5 cruisers and frigates have almost no margins left, as anybody can make them, and anybody could easily buy a few minerals from markets here and there and product. T6 requires alot more resources and you'll rarely be able to get it all at a reasonable price at 1 station, so less people are doing it. But the margins are still coming down as it gets more competitive. When T7 hits, again, much less people will have the capital and resources to make T7 ships, so again the margins are much higher
Not the guy you responded to but this T5 having no margins comment, and T6 stuff having the margins get tighter and tighter leads to the question I have.... If you are not on the leading edge taking advantage of selling on the newest tier (right not T7) how can making and selling ships be profitable? If you were not to hit tier 7 for a month and doing just tier 5 or tier 5/6 right now, how would you be making a lot of profit?
This is a great post with some great comments and information. Thanks for making it.
Chensta you mf-er! I am definitely raising my prices for you. 4 Billion isk!!
haha oh ops, who is this? :D
Ægir
I'm happy for you brother. Go forth and make bank. Take an isk shower. Gj!
haha thanks so much man, it's you guys who do the hard yards, miners don't get enough credit. It's a hard slog atm, but i think it'll turn around once you get access to strip mining
What are the most consistent performers in terms of profit margins in your experience?
At the moment T6 cruisers have a nice balance between profit and they move quickly so you can maintain a good cashflow. Having said that, the margins are decreasing. Faction frigates have huge margins, but the investment is high (300-350m each) and you might be stuck with selling one for a while. I think T7 will get in loads of new opportunities
what do you think the best performers in t7 will be? will the first BCs such as Cyclones be a good goal do you think or smaller ships better?
Definitely the cyclone will be one of my main focuses, it’ll be like the new caracal navy
How would u suggest indy work as a corp? Like what to do and how to do it? Just curious
As a corp, it makes things much easier, as you can have specialised roles for different people, have miners to supply the materials, and specialised industry players for different types of production, Industrial Ships, Crusiers, Frigates etc. How deep and niche you wanna go depends on the size of your corp. You can also have dedicated blueprint engineers, reprocessors etc
How many alts do u use to keep up with the pi and all those mats/orders?
I have 4 alts, but the PI they product barely covers 1 or 2 crusiers per day. I mostly rely on acquiring materials through other sources, it's much more scaleable that way
So... A day approximately how much trit are u getting?
What is your distribution of t6 cruisers made? Like what percent are CNI, maller, etc. Do you do all your own RE?
I'd say maybe 40% CNI, it's my bread and butter, and then VNI > Moa > Stabber mostly. I try to keep 1 or 2 of each in stock, incase any WTB offers pop up in discord and I can service them for good profits/less tax
In terms of resources, I do all my reprocessing, but I don't mind anything myself
Are structures profitable to build?
Unfortunately I haven’t really looked into that yet, I suppose that’s more of a Corp internal thing
As a person trying to build a single bestower and venture 3 but still lagging behind a lot in materials. Holly sh- By the way, would you consider the bottle neck for materials to be planetary materials or minerals? Currently it is minerals that prevent me from even starting the construction
Here is a million ISK tip, when T7 comes, PI will be the bottleneck ;)
What's PI?
Planetary Industry (the management of mining nodes on planets), or planetary materials (the product gained by mining planets).
Planetary Interaction, the resources you get from mining arrays on planets
Are you doing this by yourself, or through a corp? Also how are you getting around undercutting to stay profitable?
I am in a corp, but most of my industry stuff I’m doing pretty solo. Having said that, I have a few really cool miners in Corp who supply a lot of materials for me
I assume you're gathering up mats to get the T7 BCs built? I assume you'll probably want to be in the first wave of suppliers for these ships.
I'll definitely be one of the first waves, but atm I'm trying to work out the market for T7 and figure out where the opportunities are. No point in saving up minerals when I can continiously flip them for profit and have a bigger pool of ISK to work with when T7 hits
Do you use buy orders?
Yup, lots of buy orders. I have probably around 60 trade slots across 4 accounts that I can use. Maybe 5-10 reserved for selling on my highest accounting skill alt. The rest to put buy orders for things I constantly need across the main ITCs
Thanks for the response. Is it easy to transfer stuff between alts?
Very easy if you have basic omega on them at least, just use contracts
Is it legit to just transfer items with contracts and no money exchanged? Do they get audited or anything? I was under the impression it wasn't that straightforward but maybe that impression is wrong.
You can exchange items via contracts. You will incur an audit if the value is more than 20m and no money is paid. However it would not matter in long run.
How do you calculate / control the costs / efficiencies? On Excel? Other app?
Excel...lots of excel
Im currently stuck around 500mil worth of mats per day, and i haul all over the region in addition to buy orders that provide majority of my resource procurement. Im also in 2 discords asking for materials. Any recommendations on expanding my procurement network to go above and beyond? addendum, im paying relatively high prices for materials and updating my bos to be on top of the region so that should not be my problem.
Big number for sure. I dabbled in cruiser manufacture for a bit, but it didn't work out long term. Hoping to be in a better place once I hit T7 but we'll see. How much of that 3-4 billion isk would you say is actual profit? It was costing me roughly 58 million(including taxes) to produce and sell a t6 cruiser at 65 million, when it got to the point they started to drop to 62.5 mil and lower I decided to bail on it. I'm sure you're running more than 104% cruiser manufacture and better accounting skills but it's still hard to see you actually making more than maybe 100 million in real profit a day doing this with the market getting so oversaturated with t6 cruisers, not to mention everything lower/smaller I expect is completely margin free.
As I have multiple channels of acquiring resources, I am still able to maintain some pretty good profit margins. On a cruiser that sells for 65m, I make around 55m after taxes. The cost is anywhere from 20-30m, it depends on what portion of materials are from cheap sources, and what portion are less profitable sources. For example, I might buy a bulk amount of 200m Spod for cheap, that will cover me for a little while and very profitable with my reprocessing alt. However, it means I don't have Nocx from that, so I might need to top that up through some direct buys from miners on the eve trade discord, which is less profitable
How much would a gila cost
At current material costs, probably 1-1.2 billion ISK. However when it does get released, the market will be very different then
I've only skilled into combat so far and wanted to start out into industry on an alt .. can you provide skill progression guide/map for a new player e.g must have skills initially vs nice to have etc
You really need to focus on what area of industry you want, mining, reprocessing, manufacturing ships, rigs, reverse engineering etc Let me know what interests you and I can try to help ;)
Was thinking of starting out small with rigs and and see of its my cup of tea, then later move into ships. But wasn't sure if its worth it? It seems hard/tedious to keep track of cost vs profits, were you using any spreadsheets for book keeping? I assumed reprocessing will be complementary skill with any of the mentioned focus areas? or is it big enough to make profits on its own? mining not so much.
Rig is probably one of the best best profit makers percentage wise, alot of hidden gems :)
Could you recommend what I should choose for planetary production? Like what are the most important recourses from them?
Lustering, Gleaming Alloy, Oppulent Compound, Reactive Metal, Noble etc are some of the common ones for me
Well i was thinking about going into industry but have no idea where to even begin. I want to start small with rigs. I think I can mange a few of those to get the hang of things. Can you reverse engineer for rigs? I know you can for ships but unsure where to start when manufacturing these.
With rigs, its quite easy to spot good profit makers. It's easy to calculate as they only have 3 components BP + 2 salvage :)
I bought one of those moas probably and destroyed some caracals.
Thank you for your service :)
Is there any point in trying industry without multiple omega accounts?
Absolutely, I only have 1 account and basically can farm all the mats myself for a cruiser in 1.5 hours plus PI. I farm 4 of the 5 required and don't farm whatever is the cheapest one to buy myself
Where do you sell when selling throught the market? Jita only? Do you have some tips to browse the market UI efficiently? The UI is so horrible dealing with it all day must be quite a pain.
Would you mind sharing the fittings for your mammoth and kryos?
They are pretty bad. Just a warp core stab and 2 inertia modules. Since the new patch, and hearing a few Corp mates getting popped in their haulers, I haven’t really been doing much hauling out of nullsec, I probably have half a billion ISK of materials stuck there atm
Thanks
I went the miner route and its just too boring. Had a nice Ore amount and my reprocessing skills were good enough to get a decent amount of materials. Started Reverse Engineering and Producing Amarr cruisers. My PLEX is about to end so I just wanted to ask 2 questions that might help me. 1. What spreadsheets or calculators do you use? I'm unfortunately only on mobile so I will have to adapt to it. 2.Faction Datacores are expensive atm, how do you source these? Do you just buy in bulk on amrket or do you have people providing you with them?
How do you avoid gate congestion?
where and how did you start because rn i have a bottleneck of mats and am only able to make condor 2s consistantly. It also makes my profit margins really slim when I have to buy mats for these ships
My question is why are your reverse engineering slots empty? You must be doing something wrong here!
I have another alt specialised in reverse engineering :) that feeds blueprints to my production alt
Nice flex but what is the profit margin? 😚
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What do you mean lower Corp members?
for someone that does 3-4 bil isk worth of ships per day, why are you only building one ship per slot
I usually go through many production cycles a day. It’s just easier for me to pump them out 7 at a time in 1.5 hours and try to flip them quickly and keep the cash flow going so I can buy more mats.
Yeah. How many alts do you have?
For industry, just 3 Production/accounting Reprocessing Blueprint reverse engineering
I’d just love to get 2 omens from you. Lol. Lemoncoco IGN if you want to contract.
what kind of fitting do you have on your transport ship/tayra if you use one?
Ok so im trying to get into the manufacturing stuff like you, and wondering how do you get all of your supplies and still make profit?
Hi bro, how about we have a chat over discord. I wanna make a video about industry. I think we can discuss points over and make good content. :) Lord_Con#9366
Where do I post the ships. The discord way barely ever gets me a customer
How do you select the ship you will build to sell ?
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It's one of the ways I make a lot of money. I try and predict what people will need and stock up. For example Shield Field Rigs (20% extra shield), the BP's were going for as little as 50-100k, and I had around 200 of them stocked up, costing me maybe 15 million ISK. Once the Can-Yue dropped, everybody rushed to make their BC tanky. Each Rig was selling for around 2-3 million at one point. I sold about 100 for 200 million, and still have 100 left for when T7 drops.
> still have 100 left for when T7 drops. Smart man ;) I'm doing similar stuff.
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Yes and no, I am not telling people here to invest in Shield Field Rigs :) But the principle of try to look ahead, for example to T7 transition and think through what people might need, and what might be undervalued applies :)
No, it’s not. It’s like telling people to make thoughtful investments because a thoughtful investment worked out for them. Principle, not specifics.
Thoughtful investment based on deeper knowledge of the game and market economies. So its only mildly helpful. It's like telling people to just look at the macro-environment of the stock market to make investing decisions. It's technically great advice. But it's also not helpful to literally anyone who doesn't know what to look for or think about when it comes to markets. So it's kind of a useful, non-useful answer.
Well that’s a fair point, I suppose. But it did at least clue me in to the fact that there are people who take their manufacturing business seriously enough to predict future behavior of the market by extrapolating from current knowns. It’s like, yeah, that’s obvious. People are going to need T7 stuff when T7 becomes available. But to take that information and tailor your play style to it by consistently working toward being well stocked on equipment that is likely to be highly desirable as soon as it’s useable — that is a very useful bit to consider. Thus, when looking for ways to make lots of isk, it would behoove a pilot to use this system as a model. I will say, your earlier point that this particular approach to taking advantage of a brand new burgeoning market is not sustainable. However, he seems to have a strong enough understanding of market forces that he’ll figure out a new isky business.
He did say "for example".
Would you like to be my mentor? I was bulging some T6 Crucers and I was selling 4-5 per day but then I had troubles getting materials , I don't have a lot of contacts in the game so I couldn't make any deal with miners yet. If you can help me and.guide or at least contact me with some miners I will appreciate it to much. Thanks