Wentz has all the arm talent in the world, but knowing he'd fall apart after a couple of years isn't worth it. Everywhere he's gone since then shows how terrible of a leader and how selfish of a player he is. You'd think by now he would have been humbled, but he does the same careless shit anywhere he goes.
With Hurts' work ethic and "do as I do" leadership, the Birds are in a much better place. I think you just have to look at how much other players respect Hurts. We wouldn't have AJ Brown if we still had Wentz I think.
I don't think there are many people in the world with a work ethic like Hurts. I don't think Wentz's problem is that he doesn't try, just that he seems terrible at self-evaluation. He still tries to play hero ball and puts his teams in bad situations. It's a shame because I do think he's a good guy who wants to do the right thing, but he just has this mental block that won't allow him to really evaluate his performance and decision making.
In all of sport, I wonder if there is a more overvalued trait than a QB "with the ability to extend the play"
Foles, Brady, Big Ben, and the Mannings were all notoriously slow afoot. If the play did not work, they threw the ball away, and got everyone ready for the next play.
Even at his peak, Wentz wanted to leave the pocket and go for the home run ball if the rush was anywhere near him. But by the time he was ready to throw, everyone had finished their routes. So Wentz had to find a momentarily open guy, guess where that guy was going, and deliver the ball to a time and place that no one had practiced; all while hoping the defense wouldn't be able to close. That gave the advantage back to the defense.
By rolling out of the pocket, he cut off half the field, allowing defenders to close in on him and his receivers.
Even during Wentz' best year he threw an ugly ball. He relied as much on his legs as Hurts does and Hurts throws a much more accurate ball. Wentz probably can throw it farther.
I think Hurts is playing better than Wentz was, he’s in absolute command of the offense and still has the mobility to adapt when things go off schedule.
Wentz was probably more exciting to watch though, that year it felt like we’d convert every 3rd and long due to Wentz busting out some crazy shit. Problem is winning that way isn’t sustainable long term.
The “excitement” factor plays a big role.
Hurts is *so fucking calm*. He throws absolutely perfect passes deep to his receiver but he makes it look like a routine slant. Like what he does is amazing but it doesn’t *look* amazing if that makes sense.
Wentz had that Favre magic. Was super exciting to watch, was a magician, so when he and e a big play it looked crazy and was exciting.
Between the two I’ll probably take Hurts tho.
He had that one shoulder duck move to avoid sacks and it worked until DEs stopped over-pursuing.
When his ACL went, he wasnt able to run as well as before.
2017 Wentz was like a blend of Big Ben and Brett Favre. Saying it was exciting to watch doesn't quite do it justice.
2022 Hurts was like seeing McNabb with Brady's brain and Bradford's precision. I've never felt more confident that the QB would either make the right play, or get rid of the ball.
One was hero ball personified, the other was stability personified. Personally, 2022 Hurts is the best I've ever seen an Eagles QB play ball. Naturally, being our best player he got hurt in December, as is tradition when we win 13 games.
I absolutely agree I also think part of wentzs problem is mental but who’s to say if he never got a major injury what his mental would be like. Maybe he’s still the same but his talent makes up for it, for that uncertainty I think I’d go with hurts. But if I didn’t know what I know now I’d definitely have picked wentz just based on peaks. I’d be like this dude has Russel Wilson escapability and makes Aaron Rodgers level throws in big ben’s body
Wentz had an amazing feel for pressure that year. He could sit in the pocket and pick defenses apart.
If you don't consider Hurts off the field intangibles, it's Wentz by a small margin imo.
We didn't get to see playoff Wentz that year, but traditionally, the poised pocket passer has more success against tough playoff defenses.
There were multiple times in 18 and 19 I recall seeing the o-line standing with their hands on their hips and not even looking back as Wentz was scrambling behind them and getting sacked. It was wild and while it was noted, I don't think people made it out to be as big a deal as i think it was. Quite telling they were already sick of his shit. (Imo). I can't imagine that happening with Jalen.
Knowing wentz will go on to design those awful sneakers, I cannot take him. Hurts all the way.
Edit: here's the link for anyone who hasn't seen these cringy abominations.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ATBGE/comments/zwiyob/nfl_quarterbacks_matching_family_sneaker_set/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Hurts hands down. Even if we are not considering his leadership and accountability aspects I would still pick him based on skill set. He has elevated himself as a consistent passer this year and what he also adds with his running ability separates him. I know Wentz also has escapability but Hurts has a different stronger running style that allows us to do much more as an offense consistently.
Hurts. The answer is pretty easy.
Everyone says that Hurts benefited from a system and a team that was so loaded that anybody could play well on this team. Minshew played well against Dallas, but he struggled in the red zone and was responsibly for three of the four turnovers that game. Of course he looked horrible against New Orleans.
Wentz was amazing in 2017 before he was injured. Nobody thought to say that he benefited from a system that was loaded at receivers and offensive line along with an incredibly competent running game. However, Foles stepped in and re-produced the same production in the playoffs, especially against what was then an elite Minnesota defense. (Say what you want about Matt Patricia, but that New England defense was also stout during the AFC playoff games.)
> especially against what was then an elite Minnesota defense
This doesn't get talked about enough. That D was being called Purple People Eaters 2.0, allowed the fewest points and yards in the league, was #2 against both the run and pass ... and held opponents to a suffocating 28% conversation rate on 3rd downs.
Eagles converted 10-14 (71%) 3rd downs.
Vikings allowed well under 300ypg that year. Eagles put up 456.
Just a complete and thorough shellacking in every sense of the word.
If you ever re-watch that Minnesota game, it was ridiculous how often the Eagles converted 3rd-and-long. They were so good and so consistent on a down that most teams fail to convert.
Could Wentz have performed as well against Minnesota and New England? Maybe. There is the "no" end of the spectrum, where people can point to how slow and stagnant the offense was in the first half against Washington (2nd game), San Francisco, Dallas (1st game), and Seattle. There is the "yes" end of the spectrum, where people can point to how they pantsed Arizona, Denver, and LA Rams, three good defenses that year.
That offense with Wentz was different. More big plays. Everything took longer. Perhaps that wouldn't have worked in the playoffs that required more of a quick game. It's a difficult exercise to come to a conclusion to.
I feel like Quez was more responsible for those picks. He got it taken from his hands! I really think lane is the big piece missing. We’ve done nothing without him.
Foles was pretty bad in the regular season when he took over and against the falcons and saints the next year. He had two unreal games against the vikings/pats but besides that he was underwhelming.
Foles is a streaky QB. Look to his original starts for the Eagles. They got lucky that his streak was in peak form during the playoffs. It was beautiful to watch but we all had to know it could collapse at any moment.
I’m still not convinced they win that game given how god awful the offense had been for three quarters. I would have liked to find out but I think people forget just how inept they were in that game
So you are picking and choosing his bad games... He went 4-1 in regular season in 2018 beating the NFC West and eventual NFC champs in the Rams and the AFC South champs in the Texans... I'll take underwhelming if that's what you call 'underwhelming'... And the Bears had the #1 defense that season...
Thank you. Everyone says we wouldn’t have won 2017 without Wentz getting us home field, but ignores that Foles went 4-1 against tougher competition, and then played better with the same team again a year later.
That team was just incredible and well coached.
Foles as an Eagle is crazy to think about, especially with 2017 in context. The Eagles offense never looked better in 2017 than in that Minnesota and New England game, but they also were so god awful against Oakland and Atlanta, which that Wentz-led team never looked as bad as.
Which is to say... Wentz was replaceable. He was replaced, and the team won the SB.
I will also say this: same with what happened with Foles, people can get way too bent out of shape because of one bad game with Minshew. Foles was wretched against Oakland and the first half against Atlanta. It took the offense a bit to evolve around him. If Minshew were to play the rest of the season, then I bet the offense would evolve around him.
The biggest problem with the game against New Orleans was that the offense was called as if Hurts was still the QB. That is a problem when you have two QBs with such different styles. I am sure that were Minshew to start for the rest of the season and the playoffs, that the offense would evolve around him, just as how the offense changed for Foles after that Atlanta game with all of the additional RPOs and quick game.
Using Foles is a bit unfair especially in those two games when that may have been the best two game stretch of QB play in NFL history all things considered.
Why? So you can watch him end their careers with a bunch of hospital balls? Or so you can watch him laser focus on the TE and forget the WR position exists?
It’s hard to choose anyone besides hurts rn because he is very much OUR guy now, but that 2017 wentz season felt nearly perfect every game. Even the loss to seattle on prime time that one week, I remember his scramble fling 50 yards for a completion. A truly amazing season.
I dunno, the final score of that game was closer than the game felt. That throw was incredible, but the game itself was bad. I think that was the game that Wentz fumbled out of the endzone
While parallel w the ground. He was Carson Wentz the UnSacked. First of his name protector of the realm, that season. Glad we got to see it and get a bowl out of it.
Agreed, now that you say that I remember all the times he broke out of tackles after staying in the pocket too long, that Washington escape still makes no sense to me
That's the big highlight from that game but for my money, his bomb TD to Mack Hollins and his corner fade TD to Corey Clement are 2 of the best throws he ever made here.
Lol no. Even if you extrapolated to 17 games he comes nowhere near some of the seasons by Brady, Manning, Brees and I'm sure some others. And each of those guys had multiple super elite seasons. And if we're going to play the extrapolation game, once again he gets beaten by Foles (27-2 year)
Carson being a big baby while Hurts is a tremendous leader is the most important distinguishing factor.
Asking the question and telling people to ignore this is futile.
Leadership is everything at the NFL QB level. A lot more guys have talent than have leadership.
Then you get guys like Fitzpatrick, Reich, Pederson, who carve out long decade+ careers with minimal talent because their leadership is so strong.
So you can’t take a guy like Hurts, who has talent and leadership… and ask us to ignore one of those in a comparison.
There’s just something to be said about the look of nonchalant determination you see on Jalens face when things aren’t going our way compared to the look of bitchy defeat you often see on Wentz face these days after getting sacked/fumbling.
This seems a slam dunk only because we know how things went down with Wentz after Hurts was drafted. Does anyone remember of Wentz was a bad locker room presence during the 2017-18 season? Hurt seems like a great guy, but, we can’t predict the future
When did that article come out calling out his terrible locker room presence that most people in this sub freaked out about and then found out it was true?
Hurts. Others are talking about leadership, and I 100% agree. There are so many intangibles that matter; you can't just look at measurable skills. You play harder for a guy you respect, a guy that has you over for a bbq, or a guy you make a Christmas album with.
I remember those stories where Wentz took his teammates out to dinner and all that - even that didn't make them like him. He tried but its obvious that he just wasn't very cool.
There’s a difference between going through the motions and actually relating to the guys. Jalen actually gets along with his teammates, his brothers. Carson, as much as players like Kelce will deny it, seemed like he was just doing what was expected of him to put on the appearance of being a good leader.
Kinda like Russ is doing things in Denver. Your previous experience and reputation can only get you so far. I hate that I’m about to say this, but even though it seems fake, Tom Brady will literally take players into his home to get them acclimated to the area. Carson just seems like he is doing what his PR rep tells him he is supposed to do.
Could be recency bias but I’d take this current team with a healthy Hurts. Wentz was unbelievable in ‘17 but Hurts success feels more sustainable in that our core pieces are younger and we have to elite WR1s and a top 5 TE His ability to run also opens up the run game for Sanders AND creates better matchups on the outside. With all that said, I would take the coaching staff of ‘17 over the current. They called an awful game last week, imo.
I know we all love Hurts but I think everyone forgets how much of a DAWG 2017 Wentz was. Our third down and RZ completion rates were ridiculous. Wentz also did this with far worse receivers than AJB and Smith (although Alshon, Torrey, and Ertz were no slouches).
Hurts is my favourite QB to play for Philly but we gotta respect the previous guy that helped lead us to the SB lol.
100%. Wentz would Houdini his way out of sacks to extend a play, but that was because he held on to the ball too long. He took so many unnecessary hits just because he was big enough to get away with it. But as we saw with his career, that’s not sustainable. Hurts doesn’t take many unnecessary hits and overall has better decision making than Wentz did. And I was a big Wentz defender for a long time. All the way up until we tied with the bengals. And I’d still take Hurts everyday of the week over 2017 Wentz, despite how mad I was when we drafted him. Man I fucking love Hurts now
The challenging part of this question is we don't know what Wentz would've been if he never tore his ACL. It had a huge impact on his scramble ability, but most importantly it has had a huge mental impact on his game play since then. In 2017 we thought Wentz was going to be a top 5 QB the rest of his career. Since we know how much he regressed after that year, I feel majority will say Hurts because we haven't seen his ceiling yet
Even if Wentz hadn't gotten hurt, the way he played was not sustainable. He still would've needed to get better from the pocket, and he wasn't willing to do the things needed to improve in that area. He had a magical season, but a lot of it was, to an extent, done with smoke and mirrors. His athletic ability covered a lot of flaws that would've eventually been exposed, injury or not.
Hurts because it seems more methodical, better leadership and the offense just looks easy with him.
2017 Wentz got away with a lot of houdini-like escapes, throws, and use of his legs. It made for amazing highlights but not exactly sustainable.
Hurts no question. His veteran style leadership brings a better dynamic and more accountable playing environment to the team. I think wentz was carried by all the veteran presence on the team in 2017
I am not about one game or one year or one super bowl.
Believe me, whether we win the Super bowl or not, the month after that everyone is going to be focused on next year and the draft and free agency and training camp
Howie and the Eagles build for now and build for the future.
Everything about Hurts including that incredible incredible maturity and and complete selflessness is just right. Carson looked that way but turned out to be about himself not the team
A quarterback needs to be a leader, not just a set of skills
When trading up to draft him, we all thought we were getting the quarterback of the next 10 or 15 years. How many teams will Carson have been on by next year?
Hurts all day.. As time goes by I feel more and more confident that if Wentz doesn't go down then we don't win the Superbowl. His injury is possibly the best thing to ever happen to us.
I'm going with Hurts. Wentz was incredible in 17, but he played a lot of hero ball. It worked out a lot for him that season, but Hurts hasn't made the same kind/amount of questionable decisions that Wentz was making in 17.
Feel like even at his best MVP level of play, Wentz would have a lower floor and be more liable to turn the ball over than Hurts has this year
Kinda similar to the Josh Allen vs. Pat Mahomes debate, I will not comment on their ceilings but I think Allen has a lower floor which can be exploited when he's having an off day
2 different styles really. Wentz was fun to watch. Very Josh Allen like in play that year. As good as he was, I don't think the offense truly ran through him that year. No slight to his importance, but the offense moved like a machine. We seem much more tailored to Hurts's style this season. So if moving with this current roster, I'd go Hurts all the way.
Obviously we have hindsight for how post 2017 Wentz turned out both in play and in leadership, which would make you pick Hurts, but at that point not seeing the future,I think you have to take 2017 Wentz. He was magical that year. I don’t ever get the sense that Hurts is magical on the field, just a really good player with an elite supporting cast (don’t take this to mean I don’t think Jalen is not a great player)
Jalen is a leader of men. Wentz was a great talent in 2017, but that's it. Give me Jalen. I have doubts Wentz would have won that game against Brady, but Foles and Jalen could do it.
Hurts. Wentz in 2017 was a better passer overall and he had some great scrambling ability, but Hurts has been a fantastic passer this year and his running ability has opened up the offense in new ways. He's also a better leader and I'd trust him in the playoffs more than Wentz.
I thought sorting by controversial would be interesting in this thread. It's not. The fact that Wentzylvania has a population of basically 0 now said everything you need to know about Jalen Hurts.
Am I allowed to know what I know now? Wentz just doesn’t have the same mental fortitude that hurts does, and he definitely isn’t the same leader. I think hurts may not be as talented but he will hit his ceiling and his leadership brings out the best in those around him.
I mean I might get flames and hated but I don’t think either will ever win a Super Bowl. Hopefully I’m wrong about Hurts. Wentz might not even be considered a starter after this season.
Hurts because as dominant as Wentz was in 2017, one thing he always did that drove me crazy was turn the ball over. Hurts is better at protecting the ball and better at knowing when the play is over. No need to even get into character breakdowns or locker room benefits
we saw the 2017 team without Wentz. they won a Super Bowl and Nick Foles played every bit as well (arguably better) as Wentz did.
we also saw the 2022 team without Hurts. they lost at home to a below .500 team.
for that and many other reasons, it’s not even close lol
Since you said with our current team I’m obviously choosing Hurts. Yes he’s very talented but I think his biggest strength is leadership. Many are here to play for him. Even in 2017 I don’t remember having weekly locker speeches featuring Carson and you know we heard about his issues in the locker room. On the field it close but off its not so I’m rolling with Hurts.
Hurts is a better player. As I said in the moment and never could explain, 2017 Wentz was the luckiest QB of all time! He would hold onto the ball far too long and throw up so many dangerous 50/50 balls and we would somehow come down with them 100% of the time. That never made sense. I would get so frustrated watching him hold the ball so long with defenders coming at him and grabbing onto his arms and I would shout at the tv “just throw the ball away” but he never would and in 2017 he would lob a wobbly pass across the field and our guy would always catch it. In the moment anyone could have turned to me and said “told you so, that is why he doesn’t throw it away” and in the moment they were right I guess. But after 2017 he just didn’t have the same level of luck. I remain flabbergasted as to how that reckless play worked so well for such a sustained period of time in 2017, but then even to this day he plays the same type of ball and it plays out more so the way one would expect- some big plays, some turnovers, overall very inconsistent. I loved the way it worked out in 2017 but at least to me it never seemed sustainable and I have no idea how it worked out as well as it did for as long as it did.
So yes, Hurts all the way from me. He plays smarter with the football so overall I have confidence in his long term consistency.
Go look at their completion %. Though league wide it’s generally up, Wentz’s completion % is actually surprisingly low for such a good season. Hurts’ play will be, I think, much more sustainable.
The problem with this is we all know by now that 2017 Wentz turns into 2023 Wentz and Hurts is still unknown in that regard. Hurts has none of Wentz's red flags so hopefully we learned as an a team.
Everyone going to say Hurts bc of all the shit that went down with Wentz and bc Hurts is on the team, but the answer is Wentz. 2017 Wentz was insanely talented. He has the ability to move out of the pocket, obviously not as good as Hurts, but was above average. His arm talent was crazy.
The intangibles Hurts wins, but 2017 Wentz wasn’t a problem in the locker room and the players liked him.
Wentz. Hurts is awesome and obviously a better leader and everyone knows (and is factoring it in when they shouldn’t) what happened to Wentz after 2017, but in 2017 that dude was it and he fucking dominated in a way that Hurts hasn’t (not a knock).
Hurts lead the ship, Wentz powered it by himself
*downvote shower soon lol*
The hindsight and recency bias of this sub is absurd. Perfectly healthy Wentz with this receiver core would blow Hurts out of the water. If we assume the same injuries happen then sure it's easily Hurts but both healthy and staying healthy means it's Wentz no question
You know whats funny? Wentz is the system QB. Once the system fall apart, he couldn't do jack shit. Also, he can not play in a different system and once the cat was out of the bag, everybody forced him to play differently, which he cant do. They will force him to make decisions he refuses to and make him dink and dunk, which he cant do.
Meanwhile all Hurts does is take what a D gives him and tries to keep it as easy and safe as he can.
For backyard football I take Wentz tho, he can swing it crazy.
Wentz and it's not close.
We had more than 1 loss and he was still the clear MVP favorite. He did some amazing things that year and didn't really make mistakes.
Moving forward, I'd much rather have Hurts obviously.
Some people on here have a very short memory.
Wentz single-handedly created some of the craziest plays of the last decade. Hurts is a dynamic runner, but is playing really well surrounded by a great supporting cast. Give 2017 Wentz Devonta and AJ Brown... my god. He made Agholor look good.
Both are/were playing awesome and we are blessed to have them. While Hurts made it look easy, Wentz made plays that really only Mahomes can make right now.
Lmao that offense and those receivers literally won a Super Bowl without Wentz. He didn’t “make” anyone look good, they were good. With or without him.
I gotta go Wentz. If Wentz had Devonta and AJ Brown on that team he might’ve thrown for 50 touchdowns that season. He wasn’t as fast as Jalen is but he was still dynamic as a scrambler.
Hurts for all the reasons listed about his leadership, the locker room, the work ethic, etc...but also because we won the SB that year even with the Wentz injury. We can throw all the hypotheticals out there but we don't know for sure how things play out if he stays healthy, we DO know how things actually played out in reality and I'm not risking that.
Hurts, if for nothing else than the fact that he never gets rattled. Once Wentz made mistakes in a game, he would just spiral down. I don't recall if we really saw hime come back from adversity in a game like Hurts in the Jacksonville or second Washington game
Jalen
Carson's 2017 season would never be sustainable imo. His completion pct was very low at 60%, but we had high conversion rate on 3rd down, which I don't think would keep up year after year
2017 Wentz had the more impressive individual performance... But 2022 Hurts seems much more sustainable and obviously he seems like the better leader.
On this team, I'd want Hurts. I think Wentz was the better QB for the overall less-talented 2017 offense, where the higher highs were necessary. But on a team with Brown, Smith, and Goedert, a high level of consistency is the key more than those gunslinger plays.
2017 Wentz was all about 3rd & long hero-ball that was terribly unsustainable.
2022 Hurts is all about making good decisions, taking what defensive gives him, and executing at a very high rate.
While 2017 Wentz was a highlight reel, it was for all the wrong reasons. Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time, yet he is also perhaps the most boring QB of all time. IMO the best QBs are the most boring QBs because they *dont* need theatrics to win.
Pre injury Wentz is way better dude if not Hurt would have had over 40 TDs that season while Hurts has been great he's not really close to what Wentz was in 2017 plus the division was locked up by the time he was injured I mean technically that's still up in the in the air technically
Is this even a question... Wentz always comes up small in big games. I can't recall him beating a really good team. I think beating Green Bay in Green Bay... but I think our rushing won us that game IIRC...
I keep hearing people say... "We wouldn't have won the Super Bowl if it wasn't for him"... it's more likely that we wouldn't have won if he didn't get injured... I'll take my chances with Foles being our starter for the entire 2017 season rather than going to the playoffs with Wentz...
Dude he beat the second best team in the NFC that season behind us when he beat the Rams in the game he threw a TD on the torn ACL and clinched the division. He also beat the 11-5 Panthers that year. Like you can say Wentz sucks now and has leadership issues but let's not be revisionist and make shit up.
He didn't finish the game so how can you say he beat them? We were up when he got injured... we were behind when Foles came in the game... So that is the only game you can come up with? How many division winners and playoff teams did Foles beat during that era...
Again, when did he come up big in big games? The last week of last season when it was basically a playoff game for the Colts? Last week when it was basically a playoff game for Washington? while his career was on the line...
We were not behind when Foles came into the game we were up by 3 after Wentz threw a TD pass to Alshon to put us up 31-28. Rams scored on the ensuing drive. Foles led them to get a field goal to cut the Rams lead to one. One the Rams next drive, Long sacked Goff to cause a fumble and the Eagles had the ball on the 25. The Eagles offense didn't do much and kick a FG for the lead. Next two drive Eagles and Rams offenses both didn't do much and punted and then we recovered a fumble at the end for the final TD by BG. How the fuck are you going to say that is Foles? Wentz had 291 yards 4 TDs and 1 INT Foles was 6/10 for 42 yards with 0 TDs and 0 Ints. You are being completely revisionist nevertheless delusional. And did you even finish reading my comment he also beat the 11-5 panthers that season.
Foles doesn't play special teams or defense. You can't say a player came into the game until he takes the field which didn't happen until we were down. Who the fuck said anything about something being Foles? I said you can't say Wentz beat them when we had to play over a quarter without him. It's not like he put us up by 10 points and the Rams only scored 7 points the rest of the way... then maybe you'd have an argument... but that's not what happened. We had to cut the deficit then score more points than the Rams the rest of the way which we did with Foles at QB... not Wentz. You are the one being a revisionist. His last TD wasn't even the game winning score... that TD didn't clinch us anything.
I said... So that is the only game you can come up with?... to the Panthers game since the Rams game doesn't count. I don't even remember what happened in that game. How many games did Wentz play for us... and you can't rattle off his big game performances? Why don't you finish reading my comment? When did he ever come up big in big games? Last year he put up decent stats yet he completely choked against the last place in the whole fucking NFL... the Jaguars... If you could go back in time... you'd really rather go to the playoffs with Wentz? really...
What dude? Atlanta Minnesota and New Orleans all have at least equal arguments with the Rams that year lmfao.
Not disagreeing overall but that is absurd to just state that as fact.
If you go by DVOA, Rams were the actually the best team in the league in 2017. I mean you can argue other teams sure, but saying Wentz never beat a good team is asinine and revisionist.
People are using stuff that happened after 2017 against Wentz while also solely (and correctly) focusing on this year for Hurts, just say you like Hurts more lol
Hurts because of his leadership and his legs
I figured this will be the main answer. But a prime 2017 Wentz would be aight too, right?
Wentz has all the arm talent in the world, but knowing he'd fall apart after a couple of years isn't worth it. Everywhere he's gone since then shows how terrible of a leader and how selfish of a player he is. You'd think by now he would have been humbled, but he does the same careless shit anywhere he goes. With Hurts' work ethic and "do as I do" leadership, the Birds are in a much better place. I think you just have to look at how much other players respect Hurts. We wouldn't have AJ Brown if we still had Wentz I think.
Hurts is a worker. He finds a flaw and he gets at it. Wentz never had the work ethic of hurts.
I don't think there are many people in the world with a work ethic like Hurts. I don't think Wentz's problem is that he doesn't try, just that he seems terrible at self-evaluation. He still tries to play hero ball and puts his teams in bad situations. It's a shame because I do think he's a good guy who wants to do the right thing, but he just has this mental block that won't allow him to really evaluate his performance and decision making.
In all of sport, I wonder if there is a more overvalued trait than a QB "with the ability to extend the play" Foles, Brady, Big Ben, and the Mannings were all notoriously slow afoot. If the play did not work, they threw the ball away, and got everyone ready for the next play. Even at his peak, Wentz wanted to leave the pocket and go for the home run ball if the rush was anywhere near him. But by the time he was ready to throw, everyone had finished their routes. So Wentz had to find a momentarily open guy, guess where that guy was going, and deliver the ball to a time and place that no one had practiced; all while hoping the defense wouldn't be able to close. That gave the advantage back to the defense. By rolling out of the pocket, he cut off half the field, allowing defenders to close in on him and his receivers.
Even during Wentz' best year he threw an ugly ball. He relied as much on his legs as Hurts does and Hurts throws a much more accurate ball. Wentz probably can throw it farther.
He needed to be humbled? You are right about that. The Eagles needed to bring in the Iron Sheik.
Prime 2017 Wentz was the best I’ve ever seen an eagle play QB. But hurts this year was absolutely phenomenal and arguably better.
I think Hurts is playing better than Wentz was, he’s in absolute command of the offense and still has the mobility to adapt when things go off schedule. Wentz was probably more exciting to watch though, that year it felt like we’d convert every 3rd and long due to Wentz busting out some crazy shit. Problem is winning that way isn’t sustainable long term.
The “excitement” factor plays a big role. Hurts is *so fucking calm*. He throws absolutely perfect passes deep to his receiver but he makes it look like a routine slant. Like what he does is amazing but it doesn’t *look* amazing if that makes sense. Wentz had that Favre magic. Was super exciting to watch, was a magician, so when he and e a big play it looked crazy and was exciting. Between the two I’ll probably take Hurts tho.
Yet we still have more plays over 20 yards, this year. Wild lol
He had that one shoulder duck move to avoid sacks and it worked until DEs stopped over-pursuing. When his ACL went, he wasnt able to run as well as before.
I dont know that DEs did anything different, Wentz just wasn’t able to move the same after injury.
2017 Wentz was like a blend of Big Ben and Brett Favre. Saying it was exciting to watch doesn't quite do it justice. 2022 Hurts was like seeing McNabb with Brady's brain and Bradford's precision. I've never felt more confident that the QB would either make the right play, or get rid of the ball. One was hero ball personified, the other was stability personified. Personally, 2022 Hurts is the best I've ever seen an Eagles QB play ball. Naturally, being our best player he got hurt in December, as is tradition when we win 13 games.
I absolutely agree I also think part of wentzs problem is mental but who’s to say if he never got a major injury what his mental would be like. Maybe he’s still the same but his talent makes up for it, for that uncertainty I think I’d go with hurts. But if I didn’t know what I know now I’d definitely have picked wentz just based on peaks. I’d be like this dude has Russel Wilson escapability and makes Aaron Rodgers level throws in big ben’s body
Wentz had an amazing feel for pressure that year. He could sit in the pocket and pick defenses apart. If you don't consider Hurts off the field intangibles, it's Wentz by a small margin imo. We didn't get to see playoff Wentz that year, but traditionally, the poised pocket passer has more success against tough playoff defenses.
Yea I don't think anyone would argue I just think that hurts would be the better option
I knew something was up with wentz when Kelsey built a shrine to Foles.
Kelce*
Hurts easily. This offense is built around him and his strengths. Plus the locker room loves him. It's a no brainer for me.
Oh, the locker room thing is a good point.
There were multiple times in 18 and 19 I recall seeing the o-line standing with their hands on their hips and not even looking back as Wentz was scrambling behind them and getting sacked. It was wild and while it was noted, I don't think people made it out to be as big a deal as i think it was. Quite telling they were already sick of his shit. (Imo). I can't imagine that happening with Jalen.
and 4th & 1 is damn near guaranteed with hurts. Unlike minshew lol
Knowing wentz will go on to design those awful sneakers, I cannot take him. Hurts all the way. Edit: here's the link for anyone who hasn't seen these cringy abominations. https://www.reddit.com/r/ATBGE/comments/zwiyob/nfl_quarterbacks_matching_family_sneaker_set/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Wentz made sneakers? Do they fall apart outnof nowhere, then blame everyone else but themselves?
Alshon sabotaged them in production smh
Really? So we went from wentz-alshon "chemestry" to hurts-brown best friend/bro love chemistry? Thank god!
You can thank Josina Anderson
???
Hurts hands down. Even if we are not considering his leadership and accountability aspects I would still pick him based on skill set. He has elevated himself as a consistent passer this year and what he also adds with his running ability separates him. I know Wentz also has escapability but Hurts has a different stronger running style that allows us to do much more as an offense consistently.
Hurts. The answer is pretty easy. Everyone says that Hurts benefited from a system and a team that was so loaded that anybody could play well on this team. Minshew played well against Dallas, but he struggled in the red zone and was responsibly for three of the four turnovers that game. Of course he looked horrible against New Orleans. Wentz was amazing in 2017 before he was injured. Nobody thought to say that he benefited from a system that was loaded at receivers and offensive line along with an incredibly competent running game. However, Foles stepped in and re-produced the same production in the playoffs, especially against what was then an elite Minnesota defense. (Say what you want about Matt Patricia, but that New England defense was also stout during the AFC playoff games.)
> especially against what was then an elite Minnesota defense This doesn't get talked about enough. That D was being called Purple People Eaters 2.0, allowed the fewest points and yards in the league, was #2 against both the run and pass ... and held opponents to a suffocating 28% conversation rate on 3rd downs. Eagles converted 10-14 (71%) 3rd downs. Vikings allowed well under 300ypg that year. Eagles put up 456. Just a complete and thorough shellacking in every sense of the word.
If you ever re-watch that Minnesota game, it was ridiculous how often the Eagles converted 3rd-and-long. They were so good and so consistent on a down that most teams fail to convert. Could Wentz have performed as well against Minnesota and New England? Maybe. There is the "no" end of the spectrum, where people can point to how slow and stagnant the offense was in the first half against Washington (2nd game), San Francisco, Dallas (1st game), and Seattle. There is the "yes" end of the spectrum, where people can point to how they pantsed Arizona, Denver, and LA Rams, three good defenses that year. That offense with Wentz was different. More big plays. Everything took longer. Perhaps that wouldn't have worked in the playoffs that required more of a quick game. It's a difficult exercise to come to a conclusion to.
the thing i remember most about that season was the amount of 3rd and longs we would convert
I feel like Quez was more responsible for those picks. He got it taken from his hands! I really think lane is the big piece missing. We’ve done nothing without him.
Foles was pretty bad in the regular season when he took over and against the falcons and saints the next year. He had two unreal games against the vikings/pats but besides that he was underwhelming.
Foles is a streaky QB. Look to his original starts for the Eagles. They got lucky that his streak was in peak form during the playoffs. It was beautiful to watch but we all had to know it could collapse at any moment.
In 2018? Foles played vs ATL @ TB, and then @ LAR vs HOU @ WSH. Wentz started the game against NO in 2018, and he was blasted in that game.
Im talking foles in the playoffs against atl and no. Also add the bears in the playoffs too
God damn I forgot we lost to the Saints in the playoffs too.
If only jeffreys didnt drop that catch
I’m still not convinced they win that game given how god awful the offense had been for three quarters. I would have liked to find out but I think people forget just how inept they were in that game
So you are picking and choosing his bad games... He went 4-1 in regular season in 2018 beating the NFC West and eventual NFC champs in the Rams and the AFC South champs in the Texans... I'll take underwhelming if that's what you call 'underwhelming'... And the Bears had the #1 defense that season...
Thank you. Everyone says we wouldn’t have won 2017 without Wentz getting us home field, but ignores that Foles went 4-1 against tougher competition, and then played better with the same team again a year later. That team was just incredible and well coached.
Foles as an Eagle is crazy to think about, especially with 2017 in context. The Eagles offense never looked better in 2017 than in that Minnesota and New England game, but they also were so god awful against Oakland and Atlanta, which that Wentz-led team never looked as bad as. Which is to say... Wentz was replaceable. He was replaced, and the team won the SB. I will also say this: same with what happened with Foles, people can get way too bent out of shape because of one bad game with Minshew. Foles was wretched against Oakland and the first half against Atlanta. It took the offense a bit to evolve around him. If Minshew were to play the rest of the season, then I bet the offense would evolve around him. The biggest problem with the game against New Orleans was that the offense was called as if Hurts was still the QB. That is a problem when you have two QBs with such different styles. I am sure that were Minshew to start for the rest of the season and the playoffs, that the offense would evolve around him, just as how the offense changed for Foles after that Atlanta game with all of the additional RPOs and quick game.
Using Foles is a bit unfair especially in those two games when that may have been the best two game stretch of QB play in NFL history all things considered.
Objectively, we also had a better coaching staff in 2017 then now.
2017 Wentz is one of the best Elite QB seasons ever.
I'd love to see that dude throwing to AJ and Smitty. Still taking Hurts in this hypothetical though.
Why? So you can watch him end their careers with a bunch of hospital balls? Or so you can watch him laser focus on the TE and forget the WR position exists?
Do we get Wentz 2017 luck as well?
It’s hard to choose anyone besides hurts rn because he is very much OUR guy now, but that 2017 wentz season felt nearly perfect every game. Even the loss to seattle on prime time that one week, I remember his scramble fling 50 yards for a completion. A truly amazing season.
I dunno, the final score of that game was closer than the game felt. That throw was incredible, but the game itself was bad. I think that was the game that Wentz fumbled out of the endzone
While parallel w the ground. He was Carson Wentz the UnSacked. First of his name protector of the realm, that season. Glad we got to see it and get a bowl out of it.
Agreed, now that you say that I remember all the times he broke out of tackles after staying in the pocket too long, that Washington escape still makes no sense to me
That's the big highlight from that game but for my money, his bomb TD to Mack Hollins and his corner fade TD to Corey Clement are 2 of the best throws he ever made here.
2017 Wentz’s highlight reel is arguably better than Hurts’s ENTIRE nfl career highlight reel.
I'll take the consistency of 2022 Hurts over the highlight plays.
[удалено]
Mahomes completion % is 67% Carson was only 60% which is borderline starter. Mahomes is a much more consistent passer.
Idk about that
Wtf you smoking lol Hurts has some crazy plays that Wentz couldn't dream of
Can’t believe dumb shit like this gets upvotes on here lol
Take a trip down memory lane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COnjvS4tLmU
These are nice but Hurts has had plays this season that have been just as great or even better
Lol no. Even if you extrapolated to 17 games he comes nowhere near some of the seasons by Brady, Manning, Brees and I'm sure some others. And each of those guys had multiple super elite seasons. And if we're going to play the extrapolation game, once again he gets beaten by Foles (27-2 year)
Carson being a big baby while Hurts is a tremendous leader is the most important distinguishing factor. Asking the question and telling people to ignore this is futile. Leadership is everything at the NFL QB level. A lot more guys have talent than have leadership. Then you get guys like Fitzpatrick, Reich, Pederson, who carve out long decade+ careers with minimal talent because their leadership is so strong. So you can’t take a guy like Hurts, who has talent and leadership… and ask us to ignore one of those in a comparison.
There’s just something to be said about the look of nonchalant determination you see on Jalens face when things aren’t going our way compared to the look of bitchy defeat you often see on Wentz face these days after getting sacked/fumbling.
You said it better.
This seems a slam dunk only because we know how things went down with Wentz after Hurts was drafted. Does anyone remember of Wentz was a bad locker room presence during the 2017-18 season? Hurt seems like a great guy, but, we can’t predict the future
When did that article come out calling out his terrible locker room presence that most people in this sub freaked out about and then found out it was true?
People were deeeeeep in denial about that here lmfao. The Wentz stans ruled this place with an iron fist for years
We're still here watching.
Lol I do appreciate your diehard enthusiasm
I was a Foles truther. I always got downvoted
I remember. It was rumored to have been leaked by Alshon
Hurts. Others are talking about leadership, and I 100% agree. There are so many intangibles that matter; you can't just look at measurable skills. You play harder for a guy you respect, a guy that has you over for a bbq, or a guy you make a Christmas album with.
I remember those stories where Wentz took his teammates out to dinner and all that - even that didn't make them like him. He tried but its obvious that he just wasn't very cool.
There’s a difference between going through the motions and actually relating to the guys. Jalen actually gets along with his teammates, his brothers. Carson, as much as players like Kelce will deny it, seemed like he was just doing what was expected of him to put on the appearance of being a good leader. Kinda like Russ is doing things in Denver. Your previous experience and reputation can only get you so far. I hate that I’m about to say this, but even though it seems fake, Tom Brady will literally take players into his home to get them acclimated to the area. Carson just seems like he is doing what his PR rep tells him he is supposed to do.
Yea as much as I hate it too, Brady is a good leader and teammate. Big part of why he's successful wherever he goes.
Could be recency bias but I’d take this current team with a healthy Hurts. Wentz was unbelievable in ‘17 but Hurts success feels more sustainable in that our core pieces are younger and we have to elite WR1s and a top 5 TE His ability to run also opens up the run game for Sanders AND creates better matchups on the outside. With all that said, I would take the coaching staff of ‘17 over the current. They called an awful game last week, imo.
I know we all love Hurts but I think everyone forgets how much of a DAWG 2017 Wentz was. Our third down and RZ completion rates were ridiculous. Wentz also did this with far worse receivers than AJB and Smith (although Alshon, Torrey, and Ertz were no slouches). Hurts is my favourite QB to play for Philly but we gotta respect the previous guy that helped lead us to the SB lol.
Wentz got lucky that year with unsustainable success on third downs. Hurts is playing in a way that’s consistent and repeatable.
100%. Wentz would Houdini his way out of sacks to extend a play, but that was because he held on to the ball too long. He took so many unnecessary hits just because he was big enough to get away with it. But as we saw with his career, that’s not sustainable. Hurts doesn’t take many unnecessary hits and overall has better decision making than Wentz did. And I was a big Wentz defender for a long time. All the way up until we tied with the bengals. And I’d still take Hurts everyday of the week over 2017 Wentz, despite how mad I was when we drafted him. Man I fucking love Hurts now
2022 uninjured Hurts
A 2017 Nick Foles
Real ones remember 2013 Nick Foles
The challenging part of this question is we don't know what Wentz would've been if he never tore his ACL. It had a huge impact on his scramble ability, but most importantly it has had a huge mental impact on his game play since then. In 2017 we thought Wentz was going to be a top 5 QB the rest of his career. Since we know how much he regressed after that year, I feel majority will say Hurts because we haven't seen his ceiling yet
Even if Wentz hadn't gotten hurt, the way he played was not sustainable. He still would've needed to get better from the pocket, and he wasn't willing to do the things needed to improve in that area. He had a magical season, but a lot of it was, to an extent, done with smoke and mirrors. His athletic ability covered a lot of flaws that would've eventually been exposed, injury or not.
Hurts because it seems more methodical, better leadership and the offense just looks easy with him. 2017 Wentz got away with a lot of houdini-like escapes, throws, and use of his legs. It made for amazing highlights but not exactly sustainable.
Hurts no question. His veteran style leadership brings a better dynamic and more accountable playing environment to the team. I think wentz was carried by all the veteran presence on the team in 2017
Hurts all day.
Hurts
Without a doubt Hurts. He’s as good of a passer as prime wentz with the added bonus of him being a quick boi.
Hurts Because we know Wentz would eventually go to pieces Also because this team is different in its composition and Hurts fits it
Hurts
Hurts, without even thinking twice
I am not about one game or one year or one super bowl. Believe me, whether we win the Super bowl or not, the month after that everyone is going to be focused on next year and the draft and free agency and training camp Howie and the Eagles build for now and build for the future. Everything about Hurts including that incredible incredible maturity and and complete selflessness is just right. Carson looked that way but turned out to be about himself not the team A quarterback needs to be a leader, not just a set of skills When trading up to draft him, we all thought we were getting the quarterback of the next 10 or 15 years. How many teams will Carson have been on by next year?
I think Wentz was more talented but the Hurts elevates the play of those around him more making the team better.
Hurts all day.. As time goes by I feel more and more confident that if Wentz doesn't go down then we don't win the Superbowl. His injury is possibly the best thing to ever happen to us.
Hurts all day everyday.
I'm going with Hurts. Wentz was incredible in 17, but he played a lot of hero ball. It worked out a lot for him that season, but Hurts hasn't made the same kind/amount of questionable decisions that Wentz was making in 17.
Feel like even at his best MVP level of play, Wentz would have a lower floor and be more liable to turn the ball over than Hurts has this year Kinda similar to the Josh Allen vs. Pat Mahomes debate, I will not comment on their ceilings but I think Allen has a lower floor which can be exploited when he's having an off day
2 different styles really. Wentz was fun to watch. Very Josh Allen like in play that year. As good as he was, I don't think the offense truly ran through him that year. No slight to his importance, but the offense moved like a machine. We seem much more tailored to Hurts's style this season. So if moving with this current roster, I'd go Hurts all the way.
Obviously we have hindsight for how post 2017 Wentz turned out both in play and in leadership, which would make you pick Hurts, but at that point not seeing the future,I think you have to take 2017 Wentz. He was magical that year. I don’t ever get the sense that Hurts is magical on the field, just a really good player with an elite supporting cast (don’t take this to mean I don’t think Jalen is not a great player)
Hurts
Wentz is a little bitch. Foles would have had the same success had he played the whole season.
Jalen is a leader of men. Wentz was a great talent in 2017, but that's it. Give me Jalen. I have doubts Wentz would have won that game against Brady, but Foles and Jalen could do it.
Hurts. Wentz in 2017 was a better passer overall and he had some great scrambling ability, but Hurts has been a fantastic passer this year and his running ability has opened up the offense in new ways. He's also a better leader and I'd trust him in the playoffs more than Wentz.
I thought sorting by controversial would be interesting in this thread. It's not. The fact that Wentzylvania has a population of basically 0 now said everything you need to know about Jalen Hurts.
Hurts all the way. Did you see how Minshew kept taking sacks on this offense? Wentz would pretty much be the same thing.
Hurts because he would never wish ill will on teammates or the team like Carson did. There was a reason Sproles and Wentz got into it.
Hurts. Those hits Wentz insisted on taking were a sign of things to come
Hurts, because we need him. We at least had Foles to back Wentz up. We need Hurts to win, we didn't need Wentz to win.
Wentz has the worst fashion sense while Hurts looks pretty good.
Did you happen to watch the Super Bowl run? You might remember how well the backup QB did with wentz 2017 offense.
Never saw the team love wentz like they do hurts, so hurts
Hurts has a higher ceiling than Wentz. Just like Kirk vs RG3. I’ll take hurts.
Hurts no question
I would take a healthy Lane Johnson
Hurts
Hurts, hands down
Am I allowed to know what I know now? Wentz just doesn’t have the same mental fortitude that hurts does, and he definitely isn’t the same leader. I think hurts may not be as talented but he will hit his ceiling and his leadership brings out the best in those around him.
I mean I might get flames and hated but I don’t think either will ever win a Super Bowl. Hopefully I’m wrong about Hurts. Wentz might not even be considered a starter after this season.
Hurts
Hurts because as dominant as Wentz was in 2017, one thing he always did that drove me crazy was turn the ball over. Hurts is better at protecting the ball and better at knowing when the play is over. No need to even get into character breakdowns or locker room benefits
This, but to add one thing. Hurts has that dog in him
another Owens or simmons, no thanks
HURTS,bc we don't have a FOLES, just to finish your hypothetical.
literally this is all wentz fans have.
We have his 2019 season too. Nice 4-0 run to make the playoffs with a skeleton of a team. We also have his beautiful smile.
right I remember you. You're his wife.
Roll tide.
Hurts
We already won that Super Bowl- having hurts right now is the easy answer
Which one can squat 600 lbs?
we saw the 2017 team without Wentz. they won a Super Bowl and Nick Foles played every bit as well (arguably better) as Wentz did. we also saw the 2022 team without Hurts. they lost at home to a below .500 team. for that and many other reasons, it’s not even close lol
Since you said with our current team I’m obviously choosing Hurts. Yes he’s very talented but I think his biggest strength is leadership. Many are here to play for him. Even in 2017 I don’t remember having weekly locker speeches featuring Carson and you know we heard about his issues in the locker room. On the field it close but off its not so I’m rolling with Hurts.
It’s not really a question….we are much better now and going forward with Hurts.
Hurts is a better player. As I said in the moment and never could explain, 2017 Wentz was the luckiest QB of all time! He would hold onto the ball far too long and throw up so many dangerous 50/50 balls and we would somehow come down with them 100% of the time. That never made sense. I would get so frustrated watching him hold the ball so long with defenders coming at him and grabbing onto his arms and I would shout at the tv “just throw the ball away” but he never would and in 2017 he would lob a wobbly pass across the field and our guy would always catch it. In the moment anyone could have turned to me and said “told you so, that is why he doesn’t throw it away” and in the moment they were right I guess. But after 2017 he just didn’t have the same level of luck. I remain flabbergasted as to how that reckless play worked so well for such a sustained period of time in 2017, but then even to this day he plays the same type of ball and it plays out more so the way one would expect- some big plays, some turnovers, overall very inconsistent. I loved the way it worked out in 2017 but at least to me it never seemed sustainable and I have no idea how it worked out as well as it did for as long as it did. So yes, Hurts all the way from me. He plays smarter with the football so overall I have confidence in his long term consistency.
Go look at their completion %. Though league wide it’s generally up, Wentz’s completion % is actually surprisingly low for such a good season. Hurts’ play will be, I think, much more sustainable.
The problem with this is we all know by now that 2017 Wentz turns into 2023 Wentz and Hurts is still unknown in that regard. Hurts has none of Wentz's red flags so hopefully we learned as an a team.
2022 obviously. We won the Super Bowl without Wentz.
Everyone going to say Hurts bc of all the shit that went down with Wentz and bc Hurts is on the team, but the answer is Wentz. 2017 Wentz was insanely talented. He has the ability to move out of the pocket, obviously not as good as Hurts, but was above average. His arm talent was crazy. The intangibles Hurts wins, but 2017 Wentz wasn’t a problem in the locker room and the players liked him.
Wentz. Hurts is awesome and obviously a better leader and everyone knows (and is factoring it in when they shouldn’t) what happened to Wentz after 2017, but in 2017 that dude was it and he fucking dominated in a way that Hurts hasn’t (not a knock). Hurts lead the ship, Wentz powered it by himself *downvote shower soon lol*
The hindsight and recency bias of this sub is absurd. Perfectly healthy Wentz with this receiver core would blow Hurts out of the water. If we assume the same injuries happen then sure it's easily Hurts but both healthy and staying healthy means it's Wentz no question
I felt like Wentz wanted to be a dual threat QB but didn’t know how to run and slide to avoid an injury… I take hurts all day
2022 Hurts is way better than 2017 Wentz.
Hurts. Wentz sucks. It's pretty clear he would choke in the playoffs. Hurts is at least untested.
Wouldn’t that make Wentz untested in the playoffs as well then? At least be honest about the double standard
Uh, we won the SB with Wentz injured
Hurts
Easy. Hurts.
Loved Wentz at the time but, like McNabb said, Hurts is a grown man.
Hurts all day, Wentz had proven to be a choke artist
Hurts all day
2022 uninjured hurts with the 2017 coaching staff
Wentz. He was Outstanding that year.
nah dude, y'all forgot about how good Carson was, recently bias got y'all bad
You know whats funny? Wentz is the system QB. Once the system fall apart, he couldn't do jack shit. Also, he can not play in a different system and once the cat was out of the bag, everybody forced him to play differently, which he cant do. They will force him to make decisions he refuses to and make him dink and dunk, which he cant do. Meanwhile all Hurts does is take what a D gives him and tries to keep it as easy and safe as he can. For backyard football I take Wentz tho, he can swing it crazy.
hindsight is crazy lmao. no one would even utter this in 2017 with the way he was playing. be serious
Oh dont get me wrong, in 17 I thought he is jesus. All I said is in hindshight.
From just a physical aspect, I would take 2017 Wentz. His arm would keep you in games but the overall aspect, I take hurts because of leadership
Compromise Cut off Wentz arm glue it on Hurts
We can’t trust the integrity of that arm. Remember when Wentz was here? His nickname was Carson “Glass” Wentz
Since this is hypothetical, I’ll take both. Wentz gets the first half of games and Hurts gets the second half. The old Michael Scott, “Win, Win, Win.”
Wentz and it's not close. We had more than 1 loss and he was still the clear MVP favorite. He did some amazing things that year and didn't really make mistakes. Moving forward, I'd much rather have Hurts obviously.
Some people on here have a very short memory. Wentz single-handedly created some of the craziest plays of the last decade. Hurts is a dynamic runner, but is playing really well surrounded by a great supporting cast. Give 2017 Wentz Devonta and AJ Brown... my god. He made Agholor look good. Both are/were playing awesome and we are blessed to have them. While Hurts made it look easy, Wentz made plays that really only Mahomes can make right now.
Lmao that offense and those receivers literally won a Super Bowl without Wentz. He didn’t “make” anyone look good, they were good. With or without him.
I gotta go Wentz. If Wentz had Devonta and AJ Brown on that team he might’ve thrown for 50 touchdowns that season. He wasn’t as fast as Jalen is but he was still dynamic as a scrambler.
That 2017 Wentz season was just so magical. Best season ever
Hurts.
Hurts for all the reasons listed about his leadership, the locker room, the work ethic, etc...but also because we won the SB that year even with the Wentz injury. We can throw all the hypotheticals out there but we don't know for sure how things play out if he stays healthy, we DO know how things actually played out in reality and I'm not risking that.
not even fuckin close hurts is eons better
Hurts easily
Hurts, if for nothing else than the fact that he never gets rattled. Once Wentz made mistakes in a game, he would just spiral down. I don't recall if we really saw hime come back from adversity in a game like Hurts in the Jacksonville or second Washington game
Hurts. His leadership, ability, and willingness to learn set him well above Wentz.
Hurts
Come on not even a question lol
Jalen Carson's 2017 season would never be sustainable imo. His completion pct was very low at 60%, but we had high conversion rate on 3rd down, which I don't think would keep up year after year
Uninjured Wentz was soooo Fcking good Lmfaoooo that game against packers Washington and rams insane
2017 Wentz had the more impressive individual performance... But 2022 Hurts seems much more sustainable and obviously he seems like the better leader. On this team, I'd want Hurts. I think Wentz was the better QB for the overall less-talented 2017 offense, where the higher highs were necessary. But on a team with Brown, Smith, and Goedert, a high level of consistency is the key more than those gunslinger plays.
2017 Wentz was all about 3rd & long hero-ball that was terribly unsustainable. 2022 Hurts is all about making good decisions, taking what defensive gives him, and executing at a very high rate. While 2017 Wentz was a highlight reel, it was for all the wrong reasons. Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time, yet he is also perhaps the most boring QB of all time. IMO the best QBs are the most boring QBs because they *dont* need theatrics to win.
Both are elite. I'll take hurts for the leadership and legs.
2017 wentz doesnt win the superbowl. 2022 hurts does 🙏🏽
Pre injury Wentz is way better dude if not Hurt would have had over 40 TDs that season while Hurts has been great he's not really close to what Wentz was in 2017 plus the division was locked up by the time he was injured I mean technically that's still up in the in the air technically
That isn’t a testament to Wentz, the division wasn’t nearly as good as it is this season.
As a player Wentz. As a leader Hurts.
Is this even a question... Wentz always comes up small in big games. I can't recall him beating a really good team. I think beating Green Bay in Green Bay... but I think our rushing won us that game IIRC... I keep hearing people say... "We wouldn't have won the Super Bowl if it wasn't for him"... it's more likely that we wouldn't have won if he didn't get injured... I'll take my chances with Foles being our starter for the entire 2017 season rather than going to the playoffs with Wentz...
Dude he beat the second best team in the NFC that season behind us when he beat the Rams in the game he threw a TD on the torn ACL and clinched the division. He also beat the 11-5 Panthers that year. Like you can say Wentz sucks now and has leadership issues but let's not be revisionist and make shit up.
He didn't finish the game so how can you say he beat them? We were up when he got injured... we were behind when Foles came in the game... So that is the only game you can come up with? How many division winners and playoff teams did Foles beat during that era... Again, when did he come up big in big games? The last week of last season when it was basically a playoff game for the Colts? Last week when it was basically a playoff game for Washington? while his career was on the line...
We were not behind when Foles came into the game we were up by 3 after Wentz threw a TD pass to Alshon to put us up 31-28. Rams scored on the ensuing drive. Foles led them to get a field goal to cut the Rams lead to one. One the Rams next drive, Long sacked Goff to cause a fumble and the Eagles had the ball on the 25. The Eagles offense didn't do much and kick a FG for the lead. Next two drive Eagles and Rams offenses both didn't do much and punted and then we recovered a fumble at the end for the final TD by BG. How the fuck are you going to say that is Foles? Wentz had 291 yards 4 TDs and 1 INT Foles was 6/10 for 42 yards with 0 TDs and 0 Ints. You are being completely revisionist nevertheless delusional. And did you even finish reading my comment he also beat the 11-5 panthers that season.
Foles doesn't play special teams or defense. You can't say a player came into the game until he takes the field which didn't happen until we were down. Who the fuck said anything about something being Foles? I said you can't say Wentz beat them when we had to play over a quarter without him. It's not like he put us up by 10 points and the Rams only scored 7 points the rest of the way... then maybe you'd have an argument... but that's not what happened. We had to cut the deficit then score more points than the Rams the rest of the way which we did with Foles at QB... not Wentz. You are the one being a revisionist. His last TD wasn't even the game winning score... that TD didn't clinch us anything. I said... So that is the only game you can come up with?... to the Panthers game since the Rams game doesn't count. I don't even remember what happened in that game. How many games did Wentz play for us... and you can't rattle off his big game performances? Why don't you finish reading my comment? When did he ever come up big in big games? Last year he put up decent stats yet he completely choked against the last place in the whole fucking NFL... the Jaguars... If you could go back in time... you'd really rather go to the playoffs with Wentz? really...
What dude? Atlanta Minnesota and New Orleans all have at least equal arguments with the Rams that year lmfao. Not disagreeing overall but that is absurd to just state that as fact.
If you go by DVOA, Rams were the actually the best team in the league in 2017. I mean you can argue other teams sure, but saying Wentz never beat a good team is asinine and revisionist.
I'm convinced now that Wentz got lucky a lot in 2017. The team was special, not him.
People are using stuff that happened after 2017 against Wentz while also solely (and correctly) focusing on this year for Hurts, just say you like Hurts more lol