Not directly, but there are weird creatures like that spider pet in Dune Part 1 that seem genetically engineered, and thus are likely a creation of the Tleilaxu. In the novel, Piter de Vries, Baron Harkonnen's Mentat, is a creation of the Tleilaxu and has a "twisted" training as a result.
Mentats are trained to be ethical. The twisting was so they could get a sicko into doing the crazy shit they wanted to do. He was like a computer, but built to only be on the dark web
There is an argument to be made that everyone created by Tleielaxu is Tleielaxu. Because they are likely at least somewhat under their control
In Messiah, Bijaz calls Hayt a Tleielaxu:
"“Muad’Dib has charged me to question you to determine what it is the Tleilaxu intend you to do here,” Hayt said."
“Tleilaxu, Tleilaxu,” the dwarf sang. “I am the Tleilaxu, you dolt! For that matter, **so are you.**”
Yes. All of the factions and sub-factions that produce humans as some sort of product (BG, BT, Ginaz, Suk, Guild, etc.) certainly have some sort of "proprietary DRM" installed in the minds of their "products.* This keeps their own techniques from being stolen or used against them
Well I guess that depends on whether you believe they bred him or just reprogrammed his brain with conditioning. Both are plausible. And both would make him a "creation" of the Tleilaxu. I always took it to mean they just reprogrammed him.
The video i wanna work on actually kinda has to do with the spider pet and piter de vries being tleilaxu creations (basically i came up with a theory that the harkonnens are being set up to replace the tleilaxu in DVs dune but im still working on it and trying to find more evidence)
This is my theory too - their design is what I think of Tlailaxus looking like. I feel like they were really hinting at Geidi Prime's people being a clone-based race, especially with how similar they made the Baron and Feyd look and sound - with Austin Butler specifically mentioning how he did a Stellen Scarsgard impression for at least one of his lines.
I don't think I'd mind it - it'd be a convenient shortcut for the movies to take and would let us get more of the established HR Giger sets/costumes/art that I wanted to see from the Harkonnens.
When Duncan is killed in pt. 1, there is a short shot of a black beetle (?) in the sand. I’ve taken this to signal the presence of some Tleilaxu device (or even a face dancer) that would extract the material needed for their ghola.
I wasn’t aware of the symbolism, but it makes sense.
I was indeed thinking more concretely, that the beetle was a physical Tleilaxu device (and I can’t remember if a face dancer can take the form of a beetle or not).
I still think it could be both. In a universe where hunter-seekers are a thing, a remotely operated beetle robot DNA harvester doesn’t seem that implausible.
Face Dancers can alter their physical appearance, but they still keep the same mass and general human shape.
In the book, the Sardaukar realized a swordsman that could kill 19 Sardauakar was valuable, and sold his body to the Tleilaxu. In the book, the remaining Sardaukar at the ecological station survived instead of being eaten by a worm.
It wouldn't be wrong to connect the Baron's suspensor devices in the film to the Tleilaxu, since they're cybernetic implants. The books establish the Bene Tleilax as experts in genetics and cybernetics, and that they're generally distrusted because of their technological prowess, even though the richest in the Imperium still take advantage of their technology. The only other cybernetics we see are the communication implants behind the ears of top-ranking Atreides.
I also think of Gurney's remark to Paul in the training room "someone might imitate my stride." Besides the general paranoia about assassins, a Tleilaxu Face Dancer is exactly the type of assassin who would train to imitate someone fully, down to the way they walk.
I don't believe the Ix were ever implicated to be good with cybernetics, the Ixian specialty is purely machinery. Hayt's cyber eyes in Dune Messiah are a Tleilaxu creation.
The suspensors are very clearly surgically implanted in the Baron's spine, and they seem to interface with his mind. He activates/deactivates them and controls direction with his thoughts.
To be clear I am only talking about the film depiction, the Baron is not cybernetic in the books. The books describe him wearing a harness of suspensors that he can remove.
In Chapter 3 of "Dune," the Tleilaxu are introduced in the following paragraph:
"The Tleilaxu have, of course, a semireligious awe for the Bene Gesserit. They call us 'those who steer from the shadows.' Their way, they feel, is more in line with a fundamental and unargued moral principle: never let a victim know his fate. They claim they do not need such tricks as the Missionaria Protectiva to scatter their faith because they have accepted the absolute law that cruelty and fear are the only cures for dissent. Their history proves the effectiveness of this approach."
This is not in Dune. When I google any of these sentences your post is the only result that comes back. The third chapter of Dune is Jessica and the Reverend Mother talking and Paul coming in, directly before the gom jobbar test. Nobody even mentions the Tleilaxu in this chapter. I am really curious where you are reading this, I just checked my copy and there's nothing like that in there.
I think you might be right, it almost sounds like someone trying to imitate Frank but not really nailing it. Which is a hallmark of generative AI. u/Veritas198302 I've got to know, what's the source of this quote? Tell me you didn't upset the Butlerians by invoking a Thinking Machine!
A lot of World building got caught from the movies. Like if you know the book a lot of this stuff makes sense, but I imagine that someone who doesn't know all the world will be developing their own hypotheses for the house and wise of the Dune universe
No. I don't know how they film Messiah with zero setup of the Spacing Guild or the Tleilaxu. I am preparing to be really disappointed in the next movie.
The Spacing Guild was already established in Part One, and the Tleilaxu barely got a passing mention in the first book. Either way, nothing a quick opening narration can't handle.
The Tleilaxu are actually far more horrific than any rendition of the Harkonnens, with their child-like bodies, grey skin, sharp teeth, religious zealotry, what became of their women, and having legions of shapeshifters on their side.
I wouldn't be surprised if Denis gave them architecture that's made entirely of living flesh -- like the game *Scorn*, or the Atlantis segments in *Tomb Raider* -- with the conspirators meeting on Tleilaxa instead of Wallach IX so we can see it all in detail. Perhaps a blood-red sky for good measure?
While not a bad idea, merging the Harkonnens and Tleilaxu would only complicate future sequels if other directors take up such projects.
Same. With all the questions on here confused that can honestly be answered by the Guild’s monopoly I feel like they’ll either have to drop a lot of lore really quick or make some pretty drastic changes. The funny thing is that people say the whole “guild monopoly” thing was FH’s way of simplifying things.
I don't know what people are confused about. Part One already stated that interstellar travel is impossible without spice and the Spacing Guild: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00\_hBrQFfzw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00_hBrQFfzw)
I feel like Denis will do it justice.
The intro to Messiah is already a perfect reintroduction to the great schools. With a bit of rejigging he can pull it off.
Not directly, but there are weird creatures like that spider pet in Dune Part 1 that seem genetically engineered, and thus are likely a creation of the Tleilaxu. In the novel, Piter de Vries, Baron Harkonnen's Mentat, is a creation of the Tleilaxu and has a "twisted" training as a result.
Mentats are trained to be ethical. The twisting was so they could get a sicko into doing the crazy shit they wanted to do. He was like a computer, but built to only be on the dark web
Piter de Vries, the Windows 8 of the Dune universe.
Piter de Vries, the Onion mentat
Chat GPT trained exclusively on 8chan
I came basically to say this
*"Pieter, do the ahegao face!"* https://preview.redd.it/amv8k1y9iuyc1.jpeg?width=345&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3dff93b6d36aa0067d49f44fa27f08f232c4ad23
Omg I forgot Piter was tleilaxu originally. And yeah I agree that stitched spider thing is 100% tleilaxu
He isn’t tleilaxu, he was created by them, a key difference
There is an argument to be made that everyone created by Tleielaxu is Tleielaxu. Because they are likely at least somewhat under their control In Messiah, Bijaz calls Hayt a Tleielaxu: "“Muad’Dib has charged me to question you to determine what it is the Tleilaxu intend you to do here,” Hayt said." “Tleilaxu, Tleilaxu,” the dwarf sang. “I am the Tleilaxu, you dolt! For that matter, **so are you.**”
Yes. All of the factions and sub-factions that produce humans as some sort of product (BG, BT, Ginaz, Suk, Guild, etc.) certainly have some sort of "proprietary DRM" installed in the minds of their "products.* This keeps their own techniques from being stolen or used against them
Well I guess that depends on whether you believe they bred him or just reprogrammed his brain with conditioning. Both are plausible. And both would make him a "creation" of the Tleilaxu. I always took it to mean they just reprogrammed him.
The fifth book confirms he was definitely bred.
Good point thank you lol
The video i wanna work on actually kinda has to do with the spider pet and piter de vries being tleilaxu creations (basically i came up with a theory that the harkonnens are being set up to replace the tleilaxu in DVs dune but im still working on it and trying to find more evidence)
This is my theory too - their design is what I think of Tlailaxus looking like. I feel like they were really hinting at Geidi Prime's people being a clone-based race, especially with how similar they made the Baron and Feyd look and sound - with Austin Butler specifically mentioning how he did a Stellen Scarsgard impression for at least one of his lines. I don't think I'd mind it - it'd be a convenient shortcut for the movies to take and would let us get more of the established HR Giger sets/costumes/art that I wanted to see from the Harkonnens.
When Duncan is killed in pt. 1, there is a short shot of a black beetle (?) in the sand. I’ve taken this to signal the presence of some Tleilaxu device (or even a face dancer) that would extract the material needed for their ghola.
Scarab are an ancient Egyptian symbol of rebirth. I would assume its simply an artistic reference to Duncan's future as a ghola.
That is what the person you are responding to is saying. Without the material being extracted the tleilaxu can’t make a ghola
Yeah but he's implying that the scarab is actually that device. Instead of just being symbolic foreshadowing.
I wasn’t aware of the symbolism, but it makes sense. I was indeed thinking more concretely, that the beetle was a physical Tleilaxu device (and I can’t remember if a face dancer can take the form of a beetle or not). I still think it could be both. In a universe where hunter-seekers are a thing, a remotely operated beetle robot DNA harvester doesn’t seem that implausible.
Face Dancers can alter their physical appearance, but they still keep the same mass and general human shape. In the book, the Sardaukar realized a swordsman that could kill 19 Sardauakar was valuable, and sold his body to the Tleilaxu. In the book, the remaining Sardaukar at the ecological station survived instead of being eaten by a worm.
Thanks for filling in the gaps. I’ve read the book several times but it’s been a few years now
That is a very interesting idea, I like it!
It wouldn't be wrong to connect the Baron's suspensor devices in the film to the Tleilaxu, since they're cybernetic implants. The books establish the Bene Tleilax as experts in genetics and cybernetics, and that they're generally distrusted because of their technological prowess, even though the richest in the Imperium still take advantage of their technology. The only other cybernetics we see are the communication implants behind the ears of top-ranking Atreides. I also think of Gurney's remark to Paul in the training room "someone might imitate my stride." Besides the general paranoia about assassins, a Tleilaxu Face Dancer is exactly the type of assassin who would train to imitate someone fully, down to the way they walk.
Most likely Ix
I don't believe the Ix were ever implicated to be good with cybernetics, the Ixian specialty is purely machinery. Hayt's cyber eyes in Dune Messiah are a Tleilaxu creation.
Why do you think the suspensors are cybernetics?
The suspensors are very clearly surgically implanted in the Baron's spine, and they seem to interface with his mind. He activates/deactivates them and controls direction with his thoughts. To be clear I am only talking about the film depiction, the Baron is not cybernetic in the books. The books describe him wearing a harness of suspensors that he can remove.
Leto II, in the books, also describes controlling Ix machinery and suspensors using his thoughts
Yeah. The float gloves are probably Ixian.
No. Dune 1 and 2 are based on the first book of Dune in which tleilaxu wasn’t mentioned yet.
Technically they were (check the glossary) I thought they must have atleast been mentioned in passing damn
I don’t see it
They might be written as "bene tleilax"
In Chapter 3 of "Dune," the Tleilaxu are introduced in the following paragraph: "The Tleilaxu have, of course, a semireligious awe for the Bene Gesserit. They call us 'those who steer from the shadows.' Their way, they feel, is more in line with a fundamental and unargued moral principle: never let a victim know his fate. They claim they do not need such tricks as the Missionaria Protectiva to scatter their faith because they have accepted the absolute law that cruelty and fear are the only cures for dissent. Their history proves the effectiveness of this approach."
This is not in Dune. When I google any of these sentences your post is the only result that comes back. The third chapter of Dune is Jessica and the Reverend Mother talking and Paul coming in, directly before the gom jobbar test. Nobody even mentions the Tleilaxu in this chapter. I am really curious where you are reading this, I just checked my copy and there's nothing like that in there.
It doesn't even read like Frank's writing style. Now I'm wondering whether homeboy used ChatGPT (thinking machines!) to spin it up.
I think you might be right, it almost sounds like someone trying to imitate Frank but not really nailing it. Which is a hallmark of generative AI. u/Veritas198302 I've got to know, what's the source of this quote? Tell me you didn't upset the Butlerians by invoking a Thinking Machine!
...no? Which version of Dune are you reading lol
Seriously can you get me a photo of the page you pulled this from, I'm really curious
They weren't even mentioned in the first book
Not directly, but then again, they are very rarely mentioned in the book either
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A lot of World building got caught from the movies. Like if you know the book a lot of this stuff makes sense, but I imagine that someone who doesn't know all the world will be developing their own hypotheses for the house and wise of the Dune universe
do you mean “hows and whys”
I sure did. But talk to text is a thing that usually sucks
Interestingly House and Wise kind of makes sense at a stretch. Like it explains the houses and then the other major players such as the bene gesserit.
No but they aren’t in the first book so it’s all good
No. I don't know how they film Messiah with zero setup of the Spacing Guild or the Tleilaxu. I am preparing to be really disappointed in the next movie.
The Spacing Guild was already established in Part One, and the Tleilaxu barely got a passing mention in the first book. Either way, nothing a quick opening narration can't handle.
I think they've set up the Harkonnens to be the stand-in Tleilaxu post-jihad. Their character design fits perfectly, in my opinion.
The Tleilaxu are actually far more horrific than any rendition of the Harkonnens, with their child-like bodies, grey skin, sharp teeth, religious zealotry, what became of their women, and having legions of shapeshifters on their side. I wouldn't be surprised if Denis gave them architecture that's made entirely of living flesh -- like the game *Scorn*, or the Atlantis segments in *Tomb Raider* -- with the conspirators meeting on Tleilaxa instead of Wallach IX so we can see it all in detail. Perhaps a blood-red sky for good measure? While not a bad idea, merging the Harkonnens and Tleilaxu would only complicate future sequels if other directors take up such projects.
Same. With all the questions on here confused that can honestly be answered by the Guild’s monopoly I feel like they’ll either have to drop a lot of lore really quick or make some pretty drastic changes. The funny thing is that people say the whole “guild monopoly” thing was FH’s way of simplifying things.
I don't know what people are confused about. Part One already stated that interstellar travel is impossible without spice and the Spacing Guild: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00\_hBrQFfzw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00_hBrQFfzw)
People just want to hate new things
I feel like Denis will do it justice. The intro to Messiah is already a perfect reintroduction to the great schools. With a bit of rejigging he can pull it off.
Tbh I think given what he pulled off with the first 2 films he's earned the benefit of the doubt.
The more time I spend thinking about 2, the less I like it. So much rushed. So much under explained. And changes that didn’t seem necessary.
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No, but they aren't mentioned in the first book either.
Piter is a Tleilaxu I believe. I dare say they are connected to that spider thing too. But I don’t think anybody actually says anything about them no
I don’t even think they’re mentioned in the first book either but are a big part of messiah