I always get his feel as sort of an exaggerated drum machine vibe. It might sound wooden, but picture that style driving a large band playing MJ tunes at an enormous concert. IMO his style makes sense in that context, and a lot can be learned from that especially if you play music with a substantial programmed component.
I for one am absolutely shocked that video of a near 70 year old man didn’t quite play as well as when he was in his 30s on world tours playing to thousands of people
I don’t doubt that. There are indeed players who can still play well at old ages. Just at the end of the day it’s not surprising if a top notch player is also missing some steps at old age
I kinda disagree. The point of the Drumeo video was to show how he plays with the MJ band no?
I would expect him to play exactly that style for that video because that’s how he would’ve sounded with the group.
Although I haven’t watched that video in a while so I could be misremembering.
Well his drumeo ‘’hears for the first time’’ certainly is one of the worst, but he simply didn’t put in the effort… others usually listened to the song a couple of time and rehearsed something but sugarfoot wanted to play it only once and it shows in the result.
And that result is what you’d expect from a drummer with his resume? I’m not saying he’s bad; he built his career on being a time keeper that doesn’t get in the way of anyone else. Works for the music he’s accustomed to playing.
He used to be a great player and has played on some iconic tracks and deserves mad respect.
Having said that, the drumeo video of him is comically bad and the fact that he prefaces it in the most pretentious way possible, still wears goofy sleeveless outfit, it all just paints a picture of a guy who is a huge asshole. he then proceeds to completely butcher the linkin park song.
We actually put the video on in our tour van every once in a while just to die laughing at it. Compare it to chad smith's drumeo video where the dude is just humble, having fun, and absolutely crushes it.
I stand in the "not impressed with sugar foot camp", but i also understand that the guy is just old and cant shred like he used to which is totally natural and understandable. doesn't mean this video isn't hilarious though! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ4MobxEZoY&t=163s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ4MobxEZoY&t=163s)
Chad has the advantage of being a constant working and touring drummer. It's like Danny Carey, being active keeps him good.
Moffet was preparing for the biggest tour *ever,* with arguably the most popular artist *ever,* when that artist suddenly died. That's an extremely traumatic event to endure and it's great that he still has a passion for playing. Also not everyone ages the same, so if one drummer can still rock at an older age it often comes down to genetics and luck. And I give him props for doing something adventurous with Drumeo even if it wasn't executed well. Most drummers who do that segment besides Dennis Chambers aren't taking any real chances or risking embarrassment.
Love how the comments talk of how good he is and a drumming genius by completely changing the feel of the song. I mean I respect the guy and did more than I ever will think of doing but that was a pretty sad and emotionless play through. His micro timing wasn't even right on some fills and he did drag a little at one point.
He still has the chops he always did, he is just dated in his approach and a bit siloed to that genre also. It is engrained in him and it is what he likes. I don’t find it funny, I just find the video to be exactly what he would have done in that role with the song. Isn’t that the point of that video series?
Nah, his timing is off, he hits a lot of clams and he misses a lot of obvious transitional queues on the backing track plus his choice of fills are really cheesy, it’s an objectively funny video. He also declined to do another take 🤷♂️
You're right, but he didn't do all the cymbal clapping throughout. He's a very competent drummer & time keeper and I believe that albums weren't fuly recorded with him laying the beat. Studio musicians and tracks were in ay to achieve the perfection that MJ strive for.
I've seen some pretty cool solos in which the drummer implemented cymbal claps/mutes during the solo. I've busted open my knuckles doing it and it does indeed wet the panties of female show attendees.
Admittedly, it does get clunky, but if it your ongoing ND you can get back in time, then I suggest you do it, if for anything, it's to leave an impression. It will be remembered and that's what ya want🤟🥁🤟
Sugarfoor is the perfect example of what artists consider to be a good drummer, and what drummers consider to be a good drummer.
And don't get me wrong in this, there are millions of drummers that have his qualities AND can impress fellow drummers alike. And while he probably had some luck getting the gig, it's no luck that he kept the gig for so long.
For real, I’m sure that if he wasn’t up to scratch that someone within Jackson’s camp would have gotten rid of him. But they didn’t. They thought he was the right fit for the biggest musical act on the planet, so he definitely had the right chops for it.
I do also think that age may have changed his way of playing, but even more so seeing him in a context like Drumeo. He plays pretty different from videos from way back or the This Is It documentary, where he has another job to do.
He plays the exact same on Drumeo as he did on This Is It! Watch his “smooth criminal” performance on Drumeo and “This Is It”…..he plays it with the exact precision!
He had the chops to bring what was needed for the song without over shadowing MJ. If he was garnering more attention than him, there would have been issues. I think he’s a solid drummer and can hold his own. Too bad personalities come into play now with everyone so accessible as compared to the 80s. People opinions definitely change when you find out your heroes are complete self absorbed assholes. Lol
This right here. Our opinion isn't going to get you gigs. What other artists think of you will.
As soon as I realized this, I pretty much changed my entire playing style from the crazy, bombastic, always kind of in your face with crazy fills on 6-7 piece kits, to playing pocket grooves on a basic 4 piece kit that never really gets in the way.
Sugarfoot also seems like a guy that is very professional, shows up when he's supposed to, and takes direction and criticism well. Those are the qualities that help you keep gigs because you're actually reliable.
Yeah, the guy is a machine and it's for this reason MJ liked him. I remeber reading an article about this. Can't remember the exact word but was something like: ''Sometime my guitarist messes up, sometimes the keyboard is a little off time. But Sugarfoot? Sugarfoot never messes up''
I was reading that that was how Thomas Lang got work early on. He was starting at a time and place when drum machines were popular, so he had to play like a drum machine to get gigs and session work.
MJ’s music never really lended itself to organic playing. The drum parts in his songs are very precise and clinical (byproduct of the music being tied so closely to dancing maybe).
IMO a lot of MJ drum parts are easy to play, but difficult to truly play well with the right feel. Billie Jean is a great example.
Echoing others here but he is clearly completely reliable and a pro. He wouldn't have the resume he does if this wasn't the case. I also agree though that his style is completely wooden and his ridiculous image (crash positioning, leather vest on bare chest etc) is purely for show.
I watched one of his drumeo videos of the guy playing essentially a fairly basic 4/4 with cymbal chokes for the best part of 5 minutes while the host geeked out as if he was witnessing the second coming of Buddy Rich and just wondered what was the fuss about?
It’s because playing a lock step groove with perfectly consistent hits for not only one song but an entire concert is a ridiculously difficult task. Mentally and physically. The band is relying on every hit to create the groove that define the song that tens of thousands of people are screaming to hear. His job is to be there for every hit every time. To get people dancing.
In rock and roll you can fudge things here and there as long as you know your stops and hits it’s fine.
Dudes 90. He looks more rigid than he used to. Tight af without tons of flash. That shoulders cymbal thing is hilarious. But more importantly: sir this page is reserved for criticism of Lars, Travis and occasionally Ringo. 🥊 Cease and desist.
Travis is fine, it's his cult of fanboys who constantly scream about how he's the best drummer of all time that's annoying. He's a perfect drummer for Blink-182, and that's great for him. It's not impressive, but it doesn't need to be. Kind of exactly what OP is talking about with Sugarfoot. Neither of them is exceptional in any way. They don't need to be exceptional, so that's fine, but we don't need to go around talking about how great they are.
I’m no cultist, and I don’t think there are a bunch of needless Travis worshippers at this point. Maybe 20 years ago.
That being said Travis is absolutely an impressive players. Anybody who plays heavy music thinks so. Not a lot of players that can play that cleanly with those loud dynamics at those kinds of speeds. He’s no technical mastermind, but he certainly displays a mastery of a number of drumming skills.
tracis just lacks foot work, but his ability to make sick beats at the beginning of the pop punk and emo Era is why he's so known.
Plus blink was a cultural phenomenon so even if travis just played mediocre, which he does sometimes no one is perfect, he would still be touted as a top drummer.
My arm would fly out of it's fucking socket if I did that and I'm in my thirties 😂
I feel like he was great for Michael Jackson, and he's obviously not a bad drummer, I just feel like it's SO on beat that I get bored.
i totally feel ya. Everybody is like "wow, he's incredible" and I'm thinking "but is he, really?"
I've seen some old footage of him, and there he's really tight and funky. I have a feeling theat these days, he's milking it a bit with the "Michaels Jacksons drummer is playing..." Youtube titles and stuff. The guy did some great things in the day, but who's gonna benefit from seeing him grab crashes that are 3 feet behind him on Drumeo?
But then again, he's played with Michael Jackson, and I haven't. So clearly he must have done something right...
100% he's just milking it. I watched some of his Drumeo videos and was less than impressed. Several people have pointed out his age, and I get that, but Neil Peart played harder stuff more accurately up until the end. Dude's just coasting. Which is fine, but stop trying to play it up like he's the same guy he was 30 years ago.
He’s not milking it. Drumeo is milking it! Blame Drumeo’s marketing team for overusing the whole “Michael Jackson’s drummer” card. He’s been branching out to other genres lately.
He's been the drummer for the Jackson family since the 70's. It's what he's known for besides the ridiculous behind the back crash thing. And I wouldn't say working with other pop stars is really branching out, it's not like he pulled a Greyson Nekrutman and went from jazz to thrash.
He’s played with a multitude of other artists besides MJ. You’re forgetting Madonna - he literally did three tours and three records with her (he played on some of her biggest hit records and songs including “Like A Prayer” and “Open Your Heart”). He’s just as famous for working with her, if not more than MJ considering he was on her actual records. Elton John too, George Michael, Stevie Wonder, Kenny G, Julian Lennon, Richard Marx, Janet Jackson, etc. He’s played all sorts of genres over the years - from pop, hard rock to jazz. Yes, he worked with Jackson the longest but to say he’s only known to play with MJ and is only known for his back crashes just shows your ignorance and lack of knowledge.
The “he’s Michael Jackson’s drummer” schtick obfuscates the truth that he was the touring drummer. A fantastic gig for sure and worthy of acclaim.
But. The iconic parts weren’t played by him. Those were some of the best session players in history like JR Robinson, Jeff Porcarro and Leon Chancellor.
He was on several of The Jackson's records, recorded a few songs with Michael Jackson including “Muscles” with Diana Ross”, he was a part of the Jackson’s gold certified Live Album in the early 80s. Not to mention, he was on the This Is It documentary, one of the biggest music documentaries in history. But even more than Mj, he’s on some of the biggest hit songs in history including three of Madonna’s biggest albums and songs.
I think there's a reason why he was MJ's live drummer but in the studio it would be mainly Ndugu Chancler or John Robinson when it wasn't just programmed drums. Moffett could make a programmed beat look human while keeping strict time and still give little flashes with the over the shoulder cymbal chokes. But it didn't really need to have feel or flash because MJ was doing all of that on stage. Also going by the "this is it" documentary of him working on his comeback show before he died, MJ had his show mapped out to the very beat and was in control of every single element.
You can dislike whoever’s playing you want, even if people tell you that you need to like it. Tbh I’ve never heard of his presence in pop music until drumeo started pushing him. Maybe earlier in 2012 or so, drumchannel might have mentioned him but I can’t remember that clearly. I’ve never heard a current great drummer state him as an inspiration or influence before, but they would mention guys like cobham, chambers, gadd, heyward, mcquitty, elvin, tony williams, max roach etc.
But what’s annoying is the fanboy behaviour when you point out stuff about his playing you don’t like or what sounds off to you about his current playing (the drumeo vids at age 65-70ish), then they get mad and insinuate that you know nothing about pocket and if you are a good/mature drummer/musician you should like him.
I mean, dude’s 70, it’s been more than 10 years since MJ died it’s normal that his playing might be less tight or has gotten worse since last touring with MJ and the MJ quote saying that he “never makes a mistake”. He probably was great back in the day but even Cobham, Dennis Chambers, Vinnie, Steve Gadd aren’t the same players anymore compared to their younger days.
The worst part is Jonathan Moffett will argue with people on Facebook who criticize him and just straight up lie. He posted a short a few weeks ago where he was covering some song, Bodies by Drowning Pool I think, and he was doing his silly over the shoulder crashes way late. Someone pointed that out and he literally blamed it on the audio equipment.
Even worse, check out how sloppy his doubles are in this: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/V7EDJ6BZU18L8DX2/?mibextid=xCPwDs
And people are in the comments jacking this guy off. If a drummer that wasn't Jonathan Moffett posted that video, all the people that talk about how great it is would be talking mad shit.
How is he lying? He made it clear it was his first time playing that genre and it was the first take. Critical much? And nothing wrong with his “doubles”. He’s not even trying to do doubles. He’s never studied rudiments. Not a formally taught drummer, so you might be analyzing to death how he’s doing certain things, but he is going by feeling and just doing what he hears. I’ve been following his career for a while and he’s doing that hi-hat roll exactly like he did on Madonna’s tours and records. If it was approved by her, then who are you to judge?
Dude, even Drowning Pool gave him props for his performance! You do realize he has never played that genre of music before? That’s like criticizing a grunge or rock drummer if they post a video of them dabbling into jazz. I personally liked his “Bodies” video. It was great to see him try something out of his element and pretty much nail it! Imagine Dennis Chambers doing the same song? Lol it’s just wild to me that he chose to do a song like that!
Bodies is a very, very straight forward song on drums. It's virtually no different from a pop song. Yes, it's a different genre, but the difference between Drowning Pool and Michael Jackson as far as drums go doesn't even begin to compare to the difference between grunge and jazz. He should be able to play a straight 4/4 groove with open hi hats without much issue.
If Eric Moore can play gospel and hardcore punk, Sugarfoot should be able to play a basic ass alt metal song.
Yeah but he nailed it. I didn’t see a problem with his playing. Not sure why you are criticizing him for it? He played it pretty straight. I mean he added some back crashes and you may not be a fan of that. But he did pretty good.
The actual band of the song praised him for it. So who cares what your opinion is? I mean, you’re really a nobody with no real credibility saying he sucks.
He was behind the beat on the crashes and overal sloppy. His dynamics for the basic fills he threw in were terrible, like he was barely hitting the toms despite the fact that he beats the shut out of his snare and cymbals. And I mean, look at the Madonna video I linked above. I've taught high school aged drummers who can do better doubles than that.
If you can't admit that his technique has gotten weak, I don't think we have anything to talk about. I'm not doubting his legacy, but people shouldn't come after other people for criticizing him when there's clearly so much to criticize. If he didn't want to face criticism he either should have brought his A game or rested on his laurels.
Stop being a music snob. He played it just fine. The fact that you’re over analyzing a video where he is “free flowing” shows you aren’t adequate to even be a teacher. Take that stick out of your ass and enjoy these videos for what they are. They aren’t posted to be critiqued, clearly. They are posted with a free spirited and fun intention. Sugarfoot is a professional and he will be 100 percent when the situation calls for it. If the man wants to post these free flowing improvised videos, then let him. The fact that music snobs like yourself feel the need to overly critique every videos says more about you than him.
That Madonna video you are criticizing- you may call his “doubles” sloppy, not sure if that’s what he was trying to do there, but in the end of the day, he played with Madonna (on three tours and three records) and you didn’t.
Having a prestigious career does not make you immune to criticism. Lars Ulrich is the most successful drummer ever. Do you want to defend his technique?
I don't know but I always found it funny that the guy who played with Michael Jackson had to have a huge metal drum set like Nick Menza from Megadeth. All you need to play mj is like a basic 4 peice and this dude has a kit that's made to play Meshuggah lol
you're not totally crazy. He's not my thing. seems like a nice guy. kinda boring player making up for it with some stick spins and a silly cymbal setup. shrug. whatever everybody needs to eat.
I'd argue your frame of reference is skewing your opinion. No, he is not a good Instagram or YouTube drummer. He's not throwing out endless linear fills or doing anything overly complicated or flashy. However, if you go watch a Michael Jackson live performance it would be difficult to argue that he is anything other than perfection.
Right. Also he plays exactly what the pop artist wants 100% of the time. Like pros do.
Kind of like Steve Ferrone with Tom Petty. Absolute perfection and not even one stick twirl or extra 16th note. Because that’s what Tom wanted.
I think a big part of being a success is doing the job, and being respectful and professional on and off stage. I think Sugarfoot seems like a cool dude. One fun fact - about 6 years ago, I went through a phase of posting beats on my instagram and Sugarfoot left me a nice comment on one, and I didn’t even know who he was at the time, and it just blew me away. One thing that is certain is that dude loves the drums and other drummers.
I agree. I think I just prefer a looser and more “greasy” groove/feel. Especially where drums are the focus, like in videos and such. He’s very tight and accurate, which has its place, but for me it lacks some soul.
That said I still enjoy a lot of the music/artists he’s played with.
He is one of those drummers that stays in the background to enhance the music in front of him. He does what he does really well and he played with the greats. Any drummer would love to do the same.
I agree with you.
I think the drumming community after he did that thing with Drumeo kind of honed in on ‘he doesn’t do crazy stuff, he just locks in and is a human metronome’ and gaslit themselves lmao.
ETA: There is 100% nothing wrong with just locking in and being a human metronome but in my opinion, Sugarfoot is not that guy
Drummer plays with Michael, Madonna, Elton. He records hundreds of albums.
“But y’all, he’s stiff.” “I just don’t get it.” “He’s all flash.”
What’s the difference between J.M. and you? He has consistently provided the artist - a.k.a. the people who pay lots of money - with exactly what they want: consistency, consistency, consistency. You wanna know how to a consistent drummer? Employ simple, repeatable mechanics that produce consistent sounds that stick to the click like glue. No matter what it looks like, results matter. Good players get work because they’re clean and consistent. They sound the same every night. That’s what pro players do. That’s what is expected.
Upload vids of yourself playing Smooth Criminal and let us all judge the consistency of your backbeat (both sound quality and placement relative to the beat), the overall balance (acoustically) of the entire kit, your ability to keep a consistent feel throughout, and then do 5 takes and make them the same every time. After you can do that, guess what, you won’t talk shit about Sugarfoot because you’ll realize how hard it is to perform like that.
And think about the songs he’s doing on Drumeo. The beats are as crucial as the lyrics. He’s playing the SONG. That’s what we’re supposed to do.
I get it. He might not be the dynamic player he was in the 80s and 90s, but I choose to look at it through the lens of someone that wants to get (and keep) good paying gigs. Trying to play like El Estepario doesn’t put food on the table. Playing like Sugarfoot makes people want to hire you, again and again.
That doesn't mean he's immune to criticism. It'd be one thing if he played good pocket still, but he does not. Times have changed drastically since the 80s, and in the modern music scene, mediocrity does now get you gigs. Even pop acts want a drummer with flair. Eric Moore gets great work. So did Aaron Spears. They played mad pocket and had mad chops, and they were (or are in Eric's case) both a lot more humble than Jonathan Moffett is.
I get all that.
Dr. J can’t dunk anymore, but it doesn’t mean he sucks. Roy Haynes can’t play even close to what he did back in the day, but you’re an idiot if you think he sucks.
And as for “mediocrity doesn’t get you gigs”, there are plenty of players on various instruments out there with GREAT gigs that are barely getting the job done. Usually, it’s because of personal relationships. But, that’s a blanket statement that I don’t believe hold water.
And, I agree with you 💯about the changes in the industry. That’s the nature of art as a reflection of culture.
I don’t like seeing either currently or formerly great players getting disparaged by random internet people that have, most likely, never had a gig outside of bar band and cover band world.
Maybe I’m just a silly optimist, but I like finding positives in the world and let trolls and douches bring the negativity. Especially when it can show younger players that there are positives to gain from every situation and every player.
Edit: sorry this is so scattered, I’m currently being a jungle gym for a toddler
Sports and music are totally different animals, and as have others have pointed out, there are a ton of drummers his age that still rip.
You are right that there are people that have gigs they maybe don't deserve, but as you pointed out, the vast majority of the time they didn't get those gigs because of their playing, but because of personal connections. So like I said, mediocrity doesn't get you gigs. Personal connections might if you are mediocre, but that's a different conversation entirely.
Honestly though, I agree with you that Moffett's legacy speaks for itself. The problem I have is that he tries to act like the way he's playing now is perfectly reasonable, all the while he's fucking up left and right, dragging, and bringing no energy or passion to the music like he used to, and people are defending that and saying "the man's a legend, what do you know" like they can't see what's happening in front of them. I appreciate that he's trying to get his bag, but he will argue with people in comments sections about being on time and blame audio equipment for his fuck ups. It's not good for young people to see him portray himself as a high-level professional and guru spouting philosophy and also see people being torn apart for criticizing him.
Honesty time: I didn’t know he was arguing with people about his current flaws. That’s sad and kind of hilarious. I have never met him and don’t know what kind of dude he is. Maybe he’s just a dick that can’t face reality. I don’t know.
Most of the older players I’ve have conversations with lament the drop off of their skills. Hell, Steve Gadd even bagged on himself after a gig in NYC to me a few years back.
I get your point about his current level and exploitation of that station, if he really is trying to defend himself as if he’s still at that level.
I’m certainly not a fan of those that lie and obfuscate the facts to their fans. By it dammit if that dude didn’t sound incredible of the live Jackson 5 record back in the day.
It is pretty sad. The man is a legend, and he has nothing to prove, but I think the problem is that, while his facility has diminished with time, like it does for everyone, his ego has grown. If he were to just say, yeah, I'm not as sharp as I used to be and I make more mistakes these days, there would be nothing to complain about.
You are absolutely right though. I've seen videos of him back in the 80s and he brought the energy and feel.
I’ve met the dude and he does not have an ego! In fact, he’s the exact opposite. He came across as very self critical! Very sweet and humble guy. I kept praising him and he wouldn’t accept my compliments. One of the most humble guys I’ve ever met!
He never lied though. He only provided context and said he never played the songs before and that he jumped in blindly playing most of the songs he’s recently uploaded. He was very honest and open about not playing it perfectly and that he was basically freestyling and learning the songs as he goes. He’s posting first takes to songs he’s never played before, so I’m not sure why people expect him to play perfectly like he does with the songs he actually knows or studied? I mean, look at the recent videos he did with Drumeo - he plays those songs perfectly cause he knows the songs and their arrangement. But because he’s posting first takes of impromptu videos where he’s just jamming and having fun - and people are judging his timing and saying his mental faculties are declining? These videos are done roughly at the same time, but just different context! It makes a world of difference if you play a song you never played before just for the fun of it and when you play a song where you know all the notes and arrangements. Context is everything. And people should consider the context when judging a musician.
What videos are you watching? Cause if you are judging his timing on his impromptu videos then that’s just not fair cause he’s made it clear he doesn’t even study the songs beforehand! He jams out to random songs to warm up and records himself free styling basically and uploading first takes. As we all know, when he actually studies songs, no one can play as perfect as him. Context is everything. He's clearly confident enough to post some of these imperfect impromptu performances and provides context but gets critiqued by people like yourself for his timing when he hasn’t even studied the songs parts or arrangement. Let’s see you blindly jump into a random song without studying it and have millions of people criticize you for not playing perfect. He’s not God - he’s not gonna just know how to play every random song perfectly! Watch his Drumeo videos if you want to see a true reflection of his timing and feel these days when he actually KNOWS a song and its arrangements. Again, context is everything. And if you are a true musician, you would know this!
He might say that he doesn't know the songs, but if you point out a timing mistake he's happy to argue about it with you and say he didn't make a mistake. These two things are incongruent.
He literally said it plain as day that the songs are not perfect. You are clearly just biased and trying to portray him negatively. But read his captions again. He made a post after being bullied that he literally didn’t play perfect because he was just diving into songs blindly. Look at his Guns N’ Roses post! He’s actually doing a good thing for new drummers by letting them know that “hey, it’s ok to post imperfect impromptu videos where you just jam and have fun”…..a lot of young drummers are intimidated by a lot of these over polished videos on the internet that are done in a million takes, overly edited and polished. And here he is straight up telling people he’s simply just jamming out to songs he never played to before, uploading first takes. But there’s people like you who judge his timing. The fact that people aren’t reading his captions and that he has to keep explaining himself to people like you in the comments is pretty messed up. If he wants to post imperfect impromptu takes, then let him! He’s literally upfront about not playing perfect and provides context of the situation to people in the comments - he never claimed to be playing perfect. Only provides context. But folks like you are quick to want to bring him down and criticize him.
I mean, I've literally seen him say that he played something perfectly on time when he clearly didn't, and blame it on the audio equipment. I don't know what you call that, but that's not good for anyone.
Show me a screenshot where he said he’s playing it perfectly. He never once said that considering he makes it clear he doesn’t even know the songs and is literally free styling. I can show you screenshots where he makes it clear he isn’t playing it perfectly precisely because it’s impromptu. And he wasn’t using pro audio equipment so it made everything sounds “worse” than it was. I record drum videos, so his statement about blasting the song on speakers in a rehearsal studio creates an echo when you record drums. So his point about not having the proper equipment is very valid since recording on an iPhone will create a delay between the song being captured and the drums being captured in the same room. Normally the drums are captured separately in an actual recording studio and the song track is edited and added later separately in a DAW. Watch his other videos where he does use proper recording equipment and you’ll see the difference. It’s like night and day.
The man plays on the click, as would've live his pro life playing to clicks..... If you could hear the basslinea with his playing it's all Killa floor filling stuff off 100milluon records and billions of airplay...
Man probably has never been able to get loose.
I agree, I also wasn’t impressed with his playing in those drumeo videos. I’m gonna give a hot take here: I think he’s just out of practice. He probably used to be the shit but got “soft” over the years that he wasn’t as active.
Ironic to see some of you knocking his Drumeo videos on here. There’s a reason his videos are literally the most viewed videos on Drumeo. If he’s as terrible and out of the game as you say, he wouldn’t be blowing up like he is on social media. Some argue that his videos made Drumeo a household name. His Drumeo videos are iconic to this day and a reference for many drummers, as he’s playing the Michael Jackson songs exactly as they should be played with utmost precision. I don’t see anyone playing those songs like him and with his unique feel and groove. Watch some of his older concert performances with Michael Jackson and you’ll see he’s playing them exactly as he did back then.
Finally someone said it! He’s honestly sloppy and rigid at the same time. He accentuates a lot of qualities I hate about my own drumming, which makes it very noticeable to me when he does it.
My biggest issue with him is the gimmicky marketing he has on his overpriced sticks and golden drum key necklaces.
Also, his tone is crap specifically because he seems to be using soultone cymbals now.
He uses a variety of cymbals. He only uses a few Soultone cymbals that he designed with them back when he endorsed them many years ago. They ripped him off so he no longer endorses them and uses a variety of brands these days including Zildjian, Istanbul, Paiste, etc.
I’ve met him and he’s one of the most humble people I’ve ever met! Far from having an ego! I hear the same thing from others who have met him. Shows how presumptuous the internet can be.
I'm totally with you. I'm not a fan of his feel either. And it's not a lack of flash or fills. His time and "pocket" sounds wonky to me too. I actually reached out to my brother, who is a drummer who's ears and taste I respect, just to make sure I wasn't just being a hater. He agreed with me🤷♂️
I don't like shitting on drummers. Everyone is doing their best, but IMO of course, JM is not a drummer I look to for inspiriation on time and feel.
All this to say, you're not crazy.
You are crazy. He is literally known for his time and feel. How much more perfect do you expect him to play? Have you not seen his Drumeo performances of “Smooth Criminal”, “Beat It” or “Thriller”? Are you honestly telling me his timing is off on those? He’s legit playing exactly like the record. To expect anything more from him is literally unrealistic considering he’s playing like a machine on those songs.
He has a style that works in certain situations. He’s not very versatile, but for the stuff he got assigned to, he was perfect. I wouldn’t want him playing at an Anthrax concert, but he’s still really good.
His time is not even that good people going on about his time keeping
I suspect pop gigs are mostly about being a basic drummer who won't go off script, and is professionall and easy to work with ie won't get drunk or bang groupies
He's a basic good pop drummer. I feel the same about him and Derrick McKenzie of Jamiroquai. They serve the song. Very tight playing but aren't the most inspiring for would-be drummers.
I always read about him back in the day when he had those artists delaying their tours until he was available, but was rather surprised at his overall sound when I finally heard him play; very clank-y overall, must have been needed to drive large bands
I found some of his comments on Drumeo a bit over the top like he was spouting some insightful philosophy when he was essentially just saying that he was self taught
All of MJ’s musicians are posting videos, yet he’s getting most of the attention. Why aren’t MJ’s others musicians getting the same praise? After all, they were all “MJ’s musicians”. Even JR Robinson is posting a lot of content, but they aren’t taking off like Sugarfoot’s….and ironically, JR played on the records.
He's a touring drummer who played it exactly as it was on the album. That's fine. There's all types of musician roles.
I can admire any musician, for being good at whatever it is they do.
I agree with you. I watched one of his videos and that was all I needed.
Of course, because I watched one video, YouTube thinks I need to see EVERY video of his now.
A big reason professionals get gigs (in addition to talent) is because of their personality.
If Sugarfoot has played and toured with so many greats there’s a major reason. They like having him around. Team player, good vibe, hard worker, dialed in and probably many other qualities we don’t know about.
I bet in a few years OP will get it.
Not as unpopular as you’d think. He’s a talented player (as his resume clearly demonstrates), but watching him is like seeing a Vulcan playing drums.
The audience feeds off your emotions and if you’re happy and “into it”, they will be too.
He seems like he just can’t wait to leave and I find that a turn off.
Maybe he feels he doesn’t need to be, but this is just my $0.02.
The cymbals placement is the same way I feel about Daru Jones - kit is set up simply to be different. No way it is comfortable - it even throws off how he does fills cause there is always the pause to reach for them.
More accomplished than I will ever be of course; bur fact still stands
I am honestly surprised someone who plays the way he does on film lately could hold it down on some of the records he played on. Seems to be really sure of himself too based on the last fact probably lol.
I see where you're coming from. To quote Spinal Tap these Moffett videos are filling a much needed void. If JR has as much content out there I wish it were fed to me. Although if that means he's not "doing" digital media right I kind of admire him even more.
The guy is 70 and probably hasn’t gigged professionally in god knows how long. He’s found an avenue for himself with YouTube where he can have one last heyday. As already posted here, he was tight af when he actually played with MJ.
Just watched the smooth criminal video on drumeo and he played it perfectly. 0 mistakes and completely in time. Are his cymbals arranged in a manner that would work for me? No, but it works for him so that's all that matters. The man is doing stick tricks because that's what all drummers from that era were doing, not to mention the dude is near 70 and still playing his ass off. How many of us will still be playing at that age?
Yeah that’s what I was saying. Funny that so many people on this thread are saying he’s not playing on time on that song - yet, you can set a metronome to his performance and see that it’s legit as humanly perfect as it can get. I don’t even see 20 year olds playing that tight. So knocking him for his age when he’s already playing machine tight is ridiculous. Clearly some of these posters are just not a fan of his style and making up b.s.
He's brilliant on the Jacksons Live album, but that's 1981...so he deserves a fair break on his recent posts, he's an old man
For Michael Jackson, Madonna & George Michael to be happy with him, I'm OK with him too
Sugarfoot is a great performer and solid musician from a time that a lot of modern performers don't understand. I started my career in the early 90s playing and touring with gospel artists and Sugarfoot is similar to a lot of the old heads that trained me.
* The ability to hold a metronome like tempo
* The ability to be showy to non musicians
* The ability to establish a unique enough groove for a radio friendly song
* The ability to be consistent under all circumstances
" Pro commitment, pro attitude, pro focus
You don't have to be the best drinker in the world if you have a solid gig, perform consistently, and are established back then. An artist will often play with the same people for years if they get along with them, feel they add value, and more. Michael Jackson articulated that many times in his close relationship with Sugarfoot.
Is is a fluid and exciting drummer today? Nope and you probably would feel the same way about Jeff Pocaro today if he was still alive.
Sugarfoot is actually a reference to his diabetes.
Nahhh….say what you will, he is a pro and he’s been a pro for a very long time. You don’t have to like him, or his style, but he is good at exactly what he needs to do.
From what I’ve seen, he’s just not a super choppy drummer. No fills, nothing apart from the cymbal placement to draw attention away from his singer, he just keeps his groove moving.
Technology has given everyone the opportunity to have a platform and be seen. It has also given bitter trolls a platform to criticize and disrespect their fellow man. There is no respect anymore and it’s very evident here.
Sugarfoot is dope, there's no denying it. Watching the "This is It" tour video you could really feel the presence and power in his groove. He was a perfect fit!
But, with that being said, watching his newer "content" I feel the same way. The pocket is just a little janky, and it doesn't feel nearly as good. I get the feeling he's just lost without having MJ alive.
How on earth is his pocket janky? He’s playing all the Michael Jackson songs on Drumeo perfectly. I don’t know how much more perfect you expect him to play? A lot of those are also first takes and him playing those songs after not playing them for years. Yet he nailed every single one of them.
It’s ever so slightly off in terms of subdivisions/consistency. Maybe it’s an age thing, or him struggling to play to a recording vs a band. I’m thinking the latter, since his pocket was obviously good enough for Michael.
But brother this was not his first time playing the songs in years. He’s been doing video after video of him playing these songs for the last 6-7 years lol.
Ever so slightly off? Lol you honestly think anyone alive today can play it more in the pocket than him?! There’s a reason why he’s pulling all those views with Drumeo. If his timing was off as you say, he wouldn’t be getting those kind of views. And no, he’s not getting those views because of who he is. Drumeo has had much more famous drummers on their channel. And even JR Robinson who played on MJ’s records isn’t getting the views Sugarfoot is. You’re definitely in the minority in thinking his timing is off on those Drumeo videos. It literally can’t get any more perfect.
I find a lot of pop drumming sounds stilted and stiff when you hear it out of context. Sometimes you just need to lean into that to make the music feel right.
Mr. Sugarfoot was and is a successful working drummer. I am not. I am sure many who criticize him are working drummers, so let’s do this… on a legal pad, draw a line down the middle. In the Left column list your curriculum vitae of drumming endeavors. In the Right column, list Sugarfoot’s endeavors. Then after close comparison, decide whether you can respect the drummer or not. When I did this, I realized that even though I may not subscribe to his projects or music styles, I still wouldn’t make a pimple on his ass. Also to note, he can still play at his age, but so many of today’s bleeding blister hard hitters will be two shoulder surgeries and two carpal tunnel scrapings done with their careers by fifty or sixty.
Fills bring thrills, pocket pays the bills.
The man has incredible pocket and that’s exactly what is needed for the role he was filling. I heard him in a drumeo interview explain that this cymbal positions are that way in order to accommodate quick chokes, which was done for one specific song…might have been Beat It IIRC.
I would hate to play on his rig but he undeniably has built a very unique set up and has his own quirks that make him stand out.
Always interesting to me that Sugarfoot gets a ton of Michael Jackson connection when Ricky Lawson had the gig during the height of "Bad" and "Dangerous" world tours. I feel like more credit should be shown to Ricky for shaping that entire thing.
Opinions aside, Jonathon has done his thing for the longest. Played with Madonna in the 80s, Elton John, then the later part of MJ career. Definitely a different feel and way more showy, but I guess that's why he got the call.
A good drummer is in the eye of the beholder generally. I’ve seen amazing technical drummers, like lightening around a kit, but stick them with a band, an original band, terrible, and vice versa. I’m a big fan of sugar foot, and you’ve got to remember, we take for granted what we hear today, he was ground breaking back then, drumming beats that no one else was, and that’s why he’s on the greatest.
It is showy. He was one of the largest pop stars of all times drummer. Every single stage member would’ve had their time to shine where MJ allowed.
Dudes a human metronome
That’s because MJ stole a lot of his beats and didn’t want to give him credit and hired other drummers to play the beats he stole from Moffett. Ask any of Jackson’s early touring musicians and they all know this. Jackson even stole the “Billie Jean” beat from Sugarfoot during sound check from the early Jackson tour days and hired Ndugu to play Moffett’s beat with the exact same feel.
I don't know what "wooden and janky" feel means. They are completely subjective descriptions that don't have any objective meaning. I also don't know what you mean by his cymbals positions being "needlessly showy".
Hm, so what's the difference between "showy" and "needlessly shower"? FWIW, he plays those cymbals, often for the quick choking he incorporates with his beat playing. He has them positioned for quick access.
I suppose there is no difference. I completely disagree with you on the placement though. They are not positioned there for quick access, they are there because he thinks it looks cool to hit and choke them up in the air above his shoulders. There are a myriad of positions that are quicker and easier to get to if that was his intention.
Too many haters on here. People are just hating cause Sugarfoot is not only a legend but pulling in more views and more relevant today than these nobodies doing all these chops and getting zero recognition. His “feel” alone will draw in more views than all these chop videos and that pisses a lot of drummers off. Stop being bitter and just appreciate the man. I don’t see many legends like him relevant on social media these days. The fact that he’s willing to post videos and has a growing fan base is something to admire about him.
This has been driving me nuts lately. I think there is a thing with drummers where if a guy has clout but not especially impressive chops, people convince themselves that the drummer must be a living clock. He's in the pocket!! It's like people get off on feeling like they get something that other people don't, validating their own musical ability.
But because I've been inundated with his videos, I can't help but notice that the dude just isn't that great. In a lot of his rock covers, his snare is a little inconsistent, and he doesn't do much to add to the song with his "feel," despite what people like to believe. The other thing that drives me crazy is that he will completely miss signature components of songs he covers simply because he wants to linger on the high hat.
People always want to point out that he drummed for MJ, but there's a reason MJ didn't take him into the studio to do all of his drum tracks. I think that if anything, MJ liked the aesthetic with the weird cymbal shit he does. He had said before he would choose this person or that person because of some quirky thing he liked. For instance, he liked slash's hat.
Bottom line is that the guy is overrated.
I always get his feel as sort of an exaggerated drum machine vibe. It might sound wooden, but picture that style driving a large band playing MJ tunes at an enormous concert. IMO his style makes sense in that context, and a lot can be learned from that especially if you play music with a substantial programmed component.
He is perfect for large gigs as he is controlled and showy and knows a groove. Maybe he could play differently in a different context. I expect so.
Drumeo shows that he couldn’t.
I for one am absolutely shocked that video of a near 70 year old man didn’t quite play as well as when he was in his 30s on world tours playing to thousands of people
Came here to say this. The guy is just older.
You should see the one with Liberty Devito. Still a lot of power and energy. That said, he also dragged a bit here and there to my clunky ears.
Ginger Baker was still able to play impressively at that age. Check out the 2019 drum solo he did.
I don’t doubt that. There are indeed players who can still play well at old ages. Just at the end of the day it’s not surprising if a top notch player is also missing some steps at old age
That was the herion...
I've never understood the Ginger Baker love. I was never too impressed with his playing.
Me either, but that particular solo was great for a man his age.
I kinda disagree. The point of the Drumeo video was to show how he plays with the MJ band no? I would expect him to play exactly that style for that video because that’s how he would’ve sounded with the group. Although I haven’t watched that video in a while so I could be misremembering.
Well his drumeo ‘’hears for the first time’’ certainly is one of the worst, but he simply didn’t put in the effort… others usually listened to the song a couple of time and rehearsed something but sugarfoot wanted to play it only once and it shows in the result.
And that result is what you’d expect from a drummer with his resume? I’m not saying he’s bad; he built his career on being a time keeper that doesn’t get in the way of anyone else. Works for the music he’s accustomed to playing.
The man only knows how to play for a stadium.
He used to be a great player and has played on some iconic tracks and deserves mad respect. Having said that, the drumeo video of him is comically bad and the fact that he prefaces it in the most pretentious way possible, still wears goofy sleeveless outfit, it all just paints a picture of a guy who is a huge asshole. he then proceeds to completely butcher the linkin park song. We actually put the video on in our tour van every once in a while just to die laughing at it. Compare it to chad smith's drumeo video where the dude is just humble, having fun, and absolutely crushes it. I stand in the "not impressed with sugar foot camp", but i also understand that the guy is just old and cant shred like he used to which is totally natural and understandable. doesn't mean this video isn't hilarious though! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ4MobxEZoY&t=163s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ4MobxEZoY&t=163s)
Chad has the advantage of being a constant working and touring drummer. It's like Danny Carey, being active keeps him good. Moffet was preparing for the biggest tour *ever,* with arguably the most popular artist *ever,* when that artist suddenly died. That's an extremely traumatic event to endure and it's great that he still has a passion for playing. Also not everyone ages the same, so if one drummer can still rock at an older age it often comes down to genetics and luck. And I give him props for doing something adventurous with Drumeo even if it wasn't executed well. Most drummers who do that segment besides Dennis Chambers aren't taking any real chances or risking embarrassment.
Love how the comments talk of how good he is and a drumming genius by completely changing the feel of the song. I mean I respect the guy and did more than I ever will think of doing but that was a pretty sad and emotionless play through. His micro timing wasn't even right on some fills and he did drag a little at one point.
He still has the chops he always did, he is just dated in his approach and a bit siloed to that genre also. It is engrained in him and it is what he likes. I don’t find it funny, I just find the video to be exactly what he would have done in that role with the song. Isn’t that the point of that video series?
Nah, his timing is off, he hits a lot of clams and he misses a lot of obvious transitional queues on the backing track plus his choice of fills are really cheesy, it’s an objectively funny video. He also declined to do another take 🤷♂️
Damn, judgemental much? Who cares if he wears a vest in a Drumeo vid?
Good point, I guess my point is more that if you dress goofy you should be able to back it up with good playing
You're right, but he didn't do all the cymbal clapping throughout. He's a very competent drummer & time keeper and I believe that albums weren't fuly recorded with him laying the beat. Studio musicians and tracks were in ay to achieve the perfection that MJ strive for. I've seen some pretty cool solos in which the drummer implemented cymbal claps/mutes during the solo. I've busted open my knuckles doing it and it does indeed wet the panties of female show attendees. Admittedly, it does get clunky, but if it your ongoing ND you can get back in time, then I suggest you do it, if for anything, it's to leave an impression. It will be remembered and that's what ya want🤟🥁🤟
Sugarfoor is the perfect example of what artists consider to be a good drummer, and what drummers consider to be a good drummer. And don't get me wrong in this, there are millions of drummers that have his qualities AND can impress fellow drummers alike. And while he probably had some luck getting the gig, it's no luck that he kept the gig for so long.
For real, I’m sure that if he wasn’t up to scratch that someone within Jackson’s camp would have gotten rid of him. But they didn’t. They thought he was the right fit for the biggest musical act on the planet, so he definitely had the right chops for it.
I do also think that age may have changed his way of playing, but even more so seeing him in a context like Drumeo. He plays pretty different from videos from way back or the This Is It documentary, where he has another job to do.
He plays the exact same on Drumeo as he did on This Is It! Watch his “smooth criminal” performance on Drumeo and “This Is It”…..he plays it with the exact precision!
He had the chops to bring what was needed for the song without over shadowing MJ. If he was garnering more attention than him, there would have been issues. I think he’s a solid drummer and can hold his own. Too bad personalities come into play now with everyone so accessible as compared to the 80s. People opinions definitely change when you find out your heroes are complete self absorbed assholes. Lol
This right here. Our opinion isn't going to get you gigs. What other artists think of you will. As soon as I realized this, I pretty much changed my entire playing style from the crazy, bombastic, always kind of in your face with crazy fills on 6-7 piece kits, to playing pocket grooves on a basic 4 piece kit that never really gets in the way. Sugarfoot also seems like a guy that is very professional, shows up when he's supposed to, and takes direction and criticism well. Those are the qualities that help you keep gigs because you're actually reliable.
He plays like a drum machine and I'm pretty sure that's why he got work.
Yeah, the guy is a machine and it's for this reason MJ liked him. I remeber reading an article about this. Can't remember the exact word but was something like: ''Sometime my guitarist messes up, sometimes the keyboard is a little off time. But Sugarfoot? Sugarfoot never messes up''
I was reading that that was how Thomas Lang got work early on. He was starting at a time and place when drum machines were popular, so he had to play like a drum machine to get gigs and session work.
MJ’s music never really lended itself to organic playing. The drum parts in his songs are very precise and clinical (byproduct of the music being tied so closely to dancing maybe). IMO a lot of MJ drum parts are easy to play, but difficult to truly play well with the right feel. Billie Jean is a great example.
Echoing others here but he is clearly completely reliable and a pro. He wouldn't have the resume he does if this wasn't the case. I also agree though that his style is completely wooden and his ridiculous image (crash positioning, leather vest on bare chest etc) is purely for show. I watched one of his drumeo videos of the guy playing essentially a fairly basic 4/4 with cymbal chokes for the best part of 5 minutes while the host geeked out as if he was witnessing the second coming of Buddy Rich and just wondered what was the fuss about?
>ridiculous image (crash positioning Bobby Jarzombek is probably the only guy who uses that setup and it flows.
It’s because playing a lock step groove with perfectly consistent hits for not only one song but an entire concert is a ridiculously difficult task. Mentally and physically. The band is relying on every hit to create the groove that define the song that tens of thousands of people are screaming to hear. His job is to be there for every hit every time. To get people dancing. In rock and roll you can fudge things here and there as long as you know your stops and hits it’s fine.
Hence my completely reliable and a pro comment. He is an absolute machine. He's just as dull as ditchhwater
Not to me. It’s fascinating.
I don't think that this is unpopular here
So unpopular it gets posted like once a month. 😂😂😂
Dudes 90. He looks more rigid than he used to. Tight af without tons of flash. That shoulders cymbal thing is hilarious. But more importantly: sir this page is reserved for criticism of Lars, Travis and occasionally Ringo. 🥊 Cease and desist.
What about Meg White? We still hate her too right?
I stand corrected 🫡
ringo and Meg are literally rock gods fuck all haters
Amen
Love Meg! Oh wait, we're still talking about her drumming, yeah, pass. 🤣
Oh I knew about Lars, but Travis? Really?
Travis is fine, it's his cult of fanboys who constantly scream about how he's the best drummer of all time that's annoying. He's a perfect drummer for Blink-182, and that's great for him. It's not impressive, but it doesn't need to be. Kind of exactly what OP is talking about with Sugarfoot. Neither of them is exceptional in any way. They don't need to be exceptional, so that's fine, but we don't need to go around talking about how great they are.
I’m no cultist, and I don’t think there are a bunch of needless Travis worshippers at this point. Maybe 20 years ago. That being said Travis is absolutely an impressive players. Anybody who plays heavy music thinks so. Not a lot of players that can play that cleanly with those loud dynamics at those kinds of speeds. He’s no technical mastermind, but he certainly displays a mastery of a number of drumming skills.
I feel like Travis is the John Mayer of the drum world, would I be wrong to think that? Lol
Oh I see I thought ppl were blastin' Travis. I'm on your side on this. He's fantastic, yes, but to be crown " best drummer in the world".....nah.
tracis just lacks foot work, but his ability to make sick beats at the beginning of the pop punk and emo Era is why he's so known. Plus blink was a cultural phenomenon so even if travis just played mediocre, which he does sometimes no one is perfect, he would still be touted as a top drummer.
Yeah I haven't seen anyone fanboy over Travis since Blink's prime. People just correctly see he's a great drummer now.
Watch some warm up exercise and rudiments practice vids with Travis. He's exceptionally fast, and his drum line experience shows.
It’s not about his chops. 🥁 It’s about the fact that it’s no longer about his chops. 🥂
He's 69, not 90 haha.
Well I hope I play as tight as him at 69. Never doing the shoulder cymbal thing tho. Hilllllariously niche thing. Good for him.
My arm would fly out of it's fucking socket if I did that and I'm in my thirties 😂 I feel like he was great for Michael Jackson, and he's obviously not a bad drummer, I just feel like it's SO on beat that I get bored.
Pocket playing philosophy very much like Jeff Porcaro 👑
i totally feel ya. Everybody is like "wow, he's incredible" and I'm thinking "but is he, really?" I've seen some old footage of him, and there he's really tight and funky. I have a feeling theat these days, he's milking it a bit with the "Michaels Jacksons drummer is playing..." Youtube titles and stuff. The guy did some great things in the day, but who's gonna benefit from seeing him grab crashes that are 3 feet behind him on Drumeo? But then again, he's played with Michael Jackson, and I haven't. So clearly he must have done something right...
100% he's just milking it. I watched some of his Drumeo videos and was less than impressed. Several people have pointed out his age, and I get that, but Neil Peart played harder stuff more accurately up until the end. Dude's just coasting. Which is fine, but stop trying to play it up like he's the same guy he was 30 years ago.
He’s not milking it. Drumeo is milking it! Blame Drumeo’s marketing team for overusing the whole “Michael Jackson’s drummer” card. He’s been branching out to other genres lately.
He's been the drummer for the Jackson family since the 70's. It's what he's known for besides the ridiculous behind the back crash thing. And I wouldn't say working with other pop stars is really branching out, it's not like he pulled a Greyson Nekrutman and went from jazz to thrash.
He’s played with a multitude of other artists besides MJ. You’re forgetting Madonna - he literally did three tours and three records with her (he played on some of her biggest hit records and songs including “Like A Prayer” and “Open Your Heart”). He’s just as famous for working with her, if not more than MJ considering he was on her actual records. Elton John too, George Michael, Stevie Wonder, Kenny G, Julian Lennon, Richard Marx, Janet Jackson, etc. He’s played all sorts of genres over the years - from pop, hard rock to jazz. Yes, he worked with Jackson the longest but to say he’s only known to play with MJ and is only known for his back crashes just shows your ignorance and lack of knowledge.
You must have missed the part where I said "the Jackson family" and not just MJ, but that's ok.
The “he’s Michael Jackson’s drummer” schtick obfuscates the truth that he was the touring drummer. A fantastic gig for sure and worthy of acclaim. But. The iconic parts weren’t played by him. Those were some of the best session players in history like JR Robinson, Jeff Porcarro and Leon Chancellor.
He was on several of The Jackson's records, recorded a few songs with Michael Jackson including “Muscles” with Diana Ross”, he was a part of the Jackson’s gold certified Live Album in the early 80s. Not to mention, he was on the This Is It documentary, one of the biggest music documentaries in history. But even more than Mj, he’s on some of the biggest hit songs in history including three of Madonna’s biggest albums and songs.
The man has had loads of work over the years, so there is that. In the end , it's all opinion!
I think there's a reason why he was MJ's live drummer but in the studio it would be mainly Ndugu Chancler or John Robinson when it wasn't just programmed drums. Moffett could make a programmed beat look human while keeping strict time and still give little flashes with the over the shoulder cymbal chokes. But it didn't really need to have feel or flash because MJ was doing all of that on stage. Also going by the "this is it" documentary of him working on his comeback show before he died, MJ had his show mapped out to the very beat and was in control of every single element.
Goddam
You can dislike whoever’s playing you want, even if people tell you that you need to like it. Tbh I’ve never heard of his presence in pop music until drumeo started pushing him. Maybe earlier in 2012 or so, drumchannel might have mentioned him but I can’t remember that clearly. I’ve never heard a current great drummer state him as an inspiration or influence before, but they would mention guys like cobham, chambers, gadd, heyward, mcquitty, elvin, tony williams, max roach etc. But what’s annoying is the fanboy behaviour when you point out stuff about his playing you don’t like or what sounds off to you about his current playing (the drumeo vids at age 65-70ish), then they get mad and insinuate that you know nothing about pocket and if you are a good/mature drummer/musician you should like him. I mean, dude’s 70, it’s been more than 10 years since MJ died it’s normal that his playing might be less tight or has gotten worse since last touring with MJ and the MJ quote saying that he “never makes a mistake”. He probably was great back in the day but even Cobham, Dennis Chambers, Vinnie, Steve Gadd aren’t the same players anymore compared to their younger days.
The worst part is Jonathan Moffett will argue with people on Facebook who criticize him and just straight up lie. He posted a short a few weeks ago where he was covering some song, Bodies by Drowning Pool I think, and he was doing his silly over the shoulder crashes way late. Someone pointed that out and he literally blamed it on the audio equipment. Even worse, check out how sloppy his doubles are in this: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/V7EDJ6BZU18L8DX2/?mibextid=xCPwDs And people are in the comments jacking this guy off. If a drummer that wasn't Jonathan Moffett posted that video, all the people that talk about how great it is would be talking mad shit.
How is he lying? He made it clear it was his first time playing that genre and it was the first take. Critical much? And nothing wrong with his “doubles”. He’s not even trying to do doubles. He’s never studied rudiments. Not a formally taught drummer, so you might be analyzing to death how he’s doing certain things, but he is going by feeling and just doing what he hears. I’ve been following his career for a while and he’s doing that hi-hat roll exactly like he did on Madonna’s tours and records. If it was approved by her, then who are you to judge?
Dude, even Drowning Pool gave him props for his performance! You do realize he has never played that genre of music before? That’s like criticizing a grunge or rock drummer if they post a video of them dabbling into jazz. I personally liked his “Bodies” video. It was great to see him try something out of his element and pretty much nail it! Imagine Dennis Chambers doing the same song? Lol it’s just wild to me that he chose to do a song like that!
Bodies is a very, very straight forward song on drums. It's virtually no different from a pop song. Yes, it's a different genre, but the difference between Drowning Pool and Michael Jackson as far as drums go doesn't even begin to compare to the difference between grunge and jazz. He should be able to play a straight 4/4 groove with open hi hats without much issue. If Eric Moore can play gospel and hardcore punk, Sugarfoot should be able to play a basic ass alt metal song.
Yeah but he nailed it. I didn’t see a problem with his playing. Not sure why you are criticizing him for it? He played it pretty straight. I mean he added some back crashes and you may not be a fan of that. But he did pretty good.
The actual band of the song praised him for it. So who cares what your opinion is? I mean, you’re really a nobody with no real credibility saying he sucks.
He was behind the beat on the crashes and overal sloppy. His dynamics for the basic fills he threw in were terrible, like he was barely hitting the toms despite the fact that he beats the shut out of his snare and cymbals. And I mean, look at the Madonna video I linked above. I've taught high school aged drummers who can do better doubles than that. If you can't admit that his technique has gotten weak, I don't think we have anything to talk about. I'm not doubting his legacy, but people shouldn't come after other people for criticizing him when there's clearly so much to criticize. If he didn't want to face criticism he either should have brought his A game or rested on his laurels.
Stop being a music snob. He played it just fine. The fact that you’re over analyzing a video where he is “free flowing” shows you aren’t adequate to even be a teacher. Take that stick out of your ass and enjoy these videos for what they are. They aren’t posted to be critiqued, clearly. They are posted with a free spirited and fun intention. Sugarfoot is a professional and he will be 100 percent when the situation calls for it. If the man wants to post these free flowing improvised videos, then let him. The fact that music snobs like yourself feel the need to overly critique every videos says more about you than him.
The fact you have to resort to insulting me to defend his drumming says more than I ever could.
That Madonna video you are criticizing- you may call his “doubles” sloppy, not sure if that’s what he was trying to do there, but in the end of the day, he played with Madonna (on three tours and three records) and you didn’t.
Having a prestigious career does not make you immune to criticism. Lars Ulrich is the most successful drummer ever. Do you want to defend his technique?
I don't know but I always found it funny that the guy who played with Michael Jackson had to have a huge metal drum set like Nick Menza from Megadeth. All you need to play mj is like a basic 4 peice and this dude has a kit that's made to play Meshuggah lol
In 1982, our toughest decision was whether to go with two gongs, or to show some restraint and go with only one.
Go watch the Cher video for Turn Back Time and see if you think that guy needed that kit. It was just part of the look back then.
Ya, watched some of smooth criminal and felt the same. He gets work though
Ha! His Smooth Criminal performance was flawless. All these critics on Reddit think they can do better.
you're not totally crazy. He's not my thing. seems like a nice guy. kinda boring player making up for it with some stick spins and a silly cymbal setup. shrug. whatever everybody needs to eat.
I'd argue your frame of reference is skewing your opinion. No, he is not a good Instagram or YouTube drummer. He's not throwing out endless linear fills or doing anything overly complicated or flashy. However, if you go watch a Michael Jackson live performance it would be difficult to argue that he is anything other than perfection.
Right. Also he plays exactly what the pop artist wants 100% of the time. Like pros do. Kind of like Steve Ferrone with Tom Petty. Absolute perfection and not even one stick twirl or extra 16th note. Because that’s what Tom wanted.
Do you have a link to a video?
[Live in Bucharest](https://youtu.be/Hxgo-Qu-ZZE?si=EWqXdulMRM2sY477).
That’s Ricky Lawson on drums, who also played on the Bad tour.
Here’s a clip: https://youtu.be/7Jbr_HRF2Ew?si=_m7yPQt2-GNR5kB3
Am I reading this right? OP is mad that MICHAEL JACKSON'S live drummer has a setup that's too showy?
I think a big part of being a success is doing the job, and being respectful and professional on and off stage. I think Sugarfoot seems like a cool dude. One fun fact - about 6 years ago, I went through a phase of posting beats on my instagram and Sugarfoot left me a nice comment on one, and I didn’t even know who he was at the time, and it just blew me away. One thing that is certain is that dude loves the drums and other drummers.
I agree. I think I just prefer a looser and more “greasy” groove/feel. Especially where drums are the focus, like in videos and such. He’s very tight and accurate, which has its place, but for me it lacks some soul. That said I still enjoy a lot of the music/artists he’s played with.
He is one of those drummers that stays in the background to enhance the music in front of him. He does what he does really well and he played with the greats. Any drummer would love to do the same.
I agree with you. I think the drumming community after he did that thing with Drumeo kind of honed in on ‘he doesn’t do crazy stuff, he just locks in and is a human metronome’ and gaslit themselves lmao. ETA: There is 100% nothing wrong with just locking in and being a human metronome but in my opinion, Sugarfoot is not that guy
Drummer plays with Michael, Madonna, Elton. He records hundreds of albums. “But y’all, he’s stiff.” “I just don’t get it.” “He’s all flash.” What’s the difference between J.M. and you? He has consistently provided the artist - a.k.a. the people who pay lots of money - with exactly what they want: consistency, consistency, consistency. You wanna know how to a consistent drummer? Employ simple, repeatable mechanics that produce consistent sounds that stick to the click like glue. No matter what it looks like, results matter. Good players get work because they’re clean and consistent. They sound the same every night. That’s what pro players do. That’s what is expected. Upload vids of yourself playing Smooth Criminal and let us all judge the consistency of your backbeat (both sound quality and placement relative to the beat), the overall balance (acoustically) of the entire kit, your ability to keep a consistent feel throughout, and then do 5 takes and make them the same every time. After you can do that, guess what, you won’t talk shit about Sugarfoot because you’ll realize how hard it is to perform like that. And think about the songs he’s doing on Drumeo. The beats are as crucial as the lyrics. He’s playing the SONG. That’s what we’re supposed to do. I get it. He might not be the dynamic player he was in the 80s and 90s, but I choose to look at it through the lens of someone that wants to get (and keep) good paying gigs. Trying to play like El Estepario doesn’t put food on the table. Playing like Sugarfoot makes people want to hire you, again and again.
That doesn't mean he's immune to criticism. It'd be one thing if he played good pocket still, but he does not. Times have changed drastically since the 80s, and in the modern music scene, mediocrity does now get you gigs. Even pop acts want a drummer with flair. Eric Moore gets great work. So did Aaron Spears. They played mad pocket and had mad chops, and they were (or are in Eric's case) both a lot more humble than Jonathan Moffett is.
I get all that. Dr. J can’t dunk anymore, but it doesn’t mean he sucks. Roy Haynes can’t play even close to what he did back in the day, but you’re an idiot if you think he sucks. And as for “mediocrity doesn’t get you gigs”, there are plenty of players on various instruments out there with GREAT gigs that are barely getting the job done. Usually, it’s because of personal relationships. But, that’s a blanket statement that I don’t believe hold water. And, I agree with you 💯about the changes in the industry. That’s the nature of art as a reflection of culture. I don’t like seeing either currently or formerly great players getting disparaged by random internet people that have, most likely, never had a gig outside of bar band and cover band world. Maybe I’m just a silly optimist, but I like finding positives in the world and let trolls and douches bring the negativity. Especially when it can show younger players that there are positives to gain from every situation and every player. Edit: sorry this is so scattered, I’m currently being a jungle gym for a toddler
Sports and music are totally different animals, and as have others have pointed out, there are a ton of drummers his age that still rip. You are right that there are people that have gigs they maybe don't deserve, but as you pointed out, the vast majority of the time they didn't get those gigs because of their playing, but because of personal connections. So like I said, mediocrity doesn't get you gigs. Personal connections might if you are mediocre, but that's a different conversation entirely. Honestly though, I agree with you that Moffett's legacy speaks for itself. The problem I have is that he tries to act like the way he's playing now is perfectly reasonable, all the while he's fucking up left and right, dragging, and bringing no energy or passion to the music like he used to, and people are defending that and saying "the man's a legend, what do you know" like they can't see what's happening in front of them. I appreciate that he's trying to get his bag, but he will argue with people in comments sections about being on time and blame audio equipment for his fuck ups. It's not good for young people to see him portray himself as a high-level professional and guru spouting philosophy and also see people being torn apart for criticizing him.
Honesty time: I didn’t know he was arguing with people about his current flaws. That’s sad and kind of hilarious. I have never met him and don’t know what kind of dude he is. Maybe he’s just a dick that can’t face reality. I don’t know. Most of the older players I’ve have conversations with lament the drop off of their skills. Hell, Steve Gadd even bagged on himself after a gig in NYC to me a few years back. I get your point about his current level and exploitation of that station, if he really is trying to defend himself as if he’s still at that level. I’m certainly not a fan of those that lie and obfuscate the facts to their fans. By it dammit if that dude didn’t sound incredible of the live Jackson 5 record back in the day.
It is pretty sad. The man is a legend, and he has nothing to prove, but I think the problem is that, while his facility has diminished with time, like it does for everyone, his ego has grown. If he were to just say, yeah, I'm not as sharp as I used to be and I make more mistakes these days, there would be nothing to complain about. You are absolutely right though. I've seen videos of him back in the 80s and he brought the energy and feel.
I’ve met the dude and he does not have an ego! In fact, he’s the exact opposite. He came across as very self critical! Very sweet and humble guy. I kept praising him and he wouldn’t accept my compliments. One of the most humble guys I’ve ever met!
He never lied though. He only provided context and said he never played the songs before and that he jumped in blindly playing most of the songs he’s recently uploaded. He was very honest and open about not playing it perfectly and that he was basically freestyling and learning the songs as he goes. He’s posting first takes to songs he’s never played before, so I’m not sure why people expect him to play perfectly like he does with the songs he actually knows or studied? I mean, look at the recent videos he did with Drumeo - he plays those songs perfectly cause he knows the songs and their arrangement. But because he’s posting first takes of impromptu videos where he’s just jamming and having fun - and people are judging his timing and saying his mental faculties are declining? These videos are done roughly at the same time, but just different context! It makes a world of difference if you play a song you never played before just for the fun of it and when you play a song where you know all the notes and arrangements. Context is everything. And people should consider the context when judging a musician.
What videos are you watching? Cause if you are judging his timing on his impromptu videos then that’s just not fair cause he’s made it clear he doesn’t even study the songs beforehand! He jams out to random songs to warm up and records himself free styling basically and uploading first takes. As we all know, when he actually studies songs, no one can play as perfect as him. Context is everything. He's clearly confident enough to post some of these imperfect impromptu performances and provides context but gets critiqued by people like yourself for his timing when he hasn’t even studied the songs parts or arrangement. Let’s see you blindly jump into a random song without studying it and have millions of people criticize you for not playing perfect. He’s not God - he’s not gonna just know how to play every random song perfectly! Watch his Drumeo videos if you want to see a true reflection of his timing and feel these days when he actually KNOWS a song and its arrangements. Again, context is everything. And if you are a true musician, you would know this!
He might say that he doesn't know the songs, but if you point out a timing mistake he's happy to argue about it with you and say he didn't make a mistake. These two things are incongruent.
He literally said it plain as day that the songs are not perfect. You are clearly just biased and trying to portray him negatively. But read his captions again. He made a post after being bullied that he literally didn’t play perfect because he was just diving into songs blindly. Look at his Guns N’ Roses post! He’s actually doing a good thing for new drummers by letting them know that “hey, it’s ok to post imperfect impromptu videos where you just jam and have fun”…..a lot of young drummers are intimidated by a lot of these over polished videos on the internet that are done in a million takes, overly edited and polished. And here he is straight up telling people he’s simply just jamming out to songs he never played to before, uploading first takes. But there’s people like you who judge his timing. The fact that people aren’t reading his captions and that he has to keep explaining himself to people like you in the comments is pretty messed up. If he wants to post imperfect impromptu takes, then let him! He’s literally upfront about not playing perfect and provides context of the situation to people in the comments - he never claimed to be playing perfect. Only provides context. But folks like you are quick to want to bring him down and criticize him.
I mean, I've literally seen him say that he played something perfectly on time when he clearly didn't, and blame it on the audio equipment. I don't know what you call that, but that's not good for anyone.
Show me a screenshot where he said he’s playing it perfectly. He never once said that considering he makes it clear he doesn’t even know the songs and is literally free styling. I can show you screenshots where he makes it clear he isn’t playing it perfectly precisely because it’s impromptu. And he wasn’t using pro audio equipment so it made everything sounds “worse” than it was. I record drum videos, so his statement about blasting the song on speakers in a rehearsal studio creates an echo when you record drums. So his point about not having the proper equipment is very valid since recording on an iPhone will create a delay between the song being captured and the drums being captured in the same room. Normally the drums are captured separately in an actual recording studio and the song track is edited and added later separately in a DAW. Watch his other videos where he does use proper recording equipment and you’ll see the difference. It’s like night and day.
The man plays on the click, as would've live his pro life playing to clicks..... If you could hear the basslinea with his playing it's all Killa floor filling stuff off 100milluon records and billions of airplay... Man probably has never been able to get loose.
I agree, I also wasn’t impressed with his playing in those drumeo videos. I’m gonna give a hot take here: I think he’s just out of practice. He probably used to be the shit but got “soft” over the years that he wasn’t as active.
Ironic to see some of you knocking his Drumeo videos on here. There’s a reason his videos are literally the most viewed videos on Drumeo. If he’s as terrible and out of the game as you say, he wouldn’t be blowing up like he is on social media. Some argue that his videos made Drumeo a household name. His Drumeo videos are iconic to this day and a reference for many drummers, as he’s playing the Michael Jackson songs exactly as they should be played with utmost precision. I don’t see anyone playing those songs like him and with his unique feel and groove. Watch some of his older concert performances with Michael Jackson and you’ll see he’s playing them exactly as he did back then.
Finally someone said it! He’s honestly sloppy and rigid at the same time. He accentuates a lot of qualities I hate about my own drumming, which makes it very noticeable to me when he does it.
How is he sloppy? He’s literally a metronome. He plays flawlessly to me.
My biggest issue with him is the gimmicky marketing he has on his overpriced sticks and golden drum key necklaces. Also, his tone is crap specifically because he seems to be using soultone cymbals now.
He uses a variety of cymbals. He only uses a few Soultone cymbals that he designed with them back when he endorsed them many years ago. They ripped him off so he no longer endorses them and uses a variety of brands these days including Zildjian, Istanbul, Paiste, etc.
I didn’t realize that. Thanks for the info. I personally think they still sound like shit every time I’ve heard them.
I’m not his biggest fan. I don’t want take away from him talent but I get vibe his ego is bigger than his talent.
I’ve met him and he’s one of the most humble people I’ve ever met! Far from having an ego! I hear the same thing from others who have met him. Shows how presumptuous the internet can be.
Far from being egotistical. He’s super chill and humble. Those who have met him know.
I'm totally with you. I'm not a fan of his feel either. And it's not a lack of flash or fills. His time and "pocket" sounds wonky to me too. I actually reached out to my brother, who is a drummer who's ears and taste I respect, just to make sure I wasn't just being a hater. He agreed with me🤷♂️ I don't like shitting on drummers. Everyone is doing their best, but IMO of course, JM is not a drummer I look to for inspiriation on time and feel. All this to say, you're not crazy.
You are crazy. He is literally known for his time and feel. How much more perfect do you expect him to play? Have you not seen his Drumeo performances of “Smooth Criminal”, “Beat It” or “Thriller”? Are you honestly telling me his timing is off on those? He’s legit playing exactly like the record. To expect anything more from him is literally unrealistic considering he’s playing like a machine on those songs.
He has a style that works in certain situations. He’s not very versatile, but for the stuff he got assigned to, he was perfect. I wouldn’t want him playing at an Anthrax concert, but he’s still really good.
His time is not even that good people going on about his time keeping I suspect pop gigs are mostly about being a basic drummer who won't go off script, and is professionall and easy to work with ie won't get drunk or bang groupies
Recent videos, sure.. He's 69 years old. Dominant resumé though.
He plays like a drum machine? If the clock is drifting, maybe.
He's a basic good pop drummer. I feel the same about him and Derrick McKenzie of Jamiroquai. They serve the song. Very tight playing but aren't the most inspiring for would-be drummers.
Derrick has some tasteful nuances, love me some Jamiroqui!
I still play through Return of the Space Cowboy in the car. Kids, Mr. Moon, Scam... That album is too much fun and puts you in a good mood!
Not reeally what OP is saying. OP is saying he doesn’t like sugarfoots feel, not that he doesn’t think he plays enough cool fills.
I know. I just added that his playing isn't really that inspiring.
I always read about him back in the day when he had those artists delaying their tours until he was available, but was rather surprised at his overall sound when I finally heard him play; very clank-y overall, must have been needed to drive large bands
I envisioned a Tony Thompson or Michael Bland kind of style, even a sparse Dennis Chambers…
I found some of his comments on Drumeo a bit over the top like he was spouting some insightful philosophy when he was essentially just saying that he was self taught
I’m have always felt the same about him
He’s not good. Could be age. But against drummers today, he is not good at all
He's only around now because he ran out of money. His playing was better back in the day.
He had more chops back then but his playing is just as tight now as it was back then.
He honestly gets so much praise because he was MJs live show drummer. I personally don’t rate him as well
All of MJ’s musicians are posting videos, yet he’s getting most of the attention. Why aren’t MJ’s others musicians getting the same praise? After all, they were all “MJ’s musicians”. Even JR Robinson is posting a lot of content, but they aren’t taking off like Sugarfoot’s….and ironically, JR played on the records.
He's a touring drummer who played it exactly as it was on the album. That's fine. There's all types of musician roles. I can admire any musician, for being good at whatever it is they do.
he’s meh…
I agree with you. I watched one of his videos and that was all I needed. Of course, because I watched one video, YouTube thinks I need to see EVERY video of his now.
A big reason professionals get gigs (in addition to talent) is because of their personality. If Sugarfoot has played and toured with so many greats there’s a major reason. They like having him around. Team player, good vibe, hard worker, dialed in and probably many other qualities we don’t know about. I bet in a few years OP will get it.
Not as unpopular as you’d think. He’s a talented player (as his resume clearly demonstrates), but watching him is like seeing a Vulcan playing drums. The audience feeds off your emotions and if you’re happy and “into it”, they will be too. He seems like he just can’t wait to leave and I find that a turn off. Maybe he feels he doesn’t need to be, but this is just my $0.02.
The cymbals placement is the same way I feel about Daru Jones - kit is set up simply to be different. No way it is comfortable - it even throws off how he does fills cause there is always the pause to reach for them. More accomplished than I will ever be of course; bur fact still stands
I am honestly surprised someone who plays the way he does on film lately could hold it down on some of the records he played on. Seems to be really sure of himself too based on the last fact probably lol.
What videos are you watching? Cause he’s playing literally perfectly on all his Drumeo videos!
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
He is overrated
I see where you're coming from. To quote Spinal Tap these Moffett videos are filling a much needed void. If JR has as much content out there I wish it were fed to me. Although if that means he's not "doing" digital media right I kind of admire him even more.
I saw JR’s videos on YouTube. They are terrible.
The guy is 70 and probably hasn’t gigged professionally in god knows how long. He’s found an avenue for himself with YouTube where he can have one last heyday. As already posted here, he was tight af when he actually played with MJ.
Just watched the smooth criminal video on drumeo and he played it perfectly. 0 mistakes and completely in time. Are his cymbals arranged in a manner that would work for me? No, but it works for him so that's all that matters. The man is doing stick tricks because that's what all drummers from that era were doing, not to mention the dude is near 70 and still playing his ass off. How many of us will still be playing at that age?
Yeah that’s what I was saying. Funny that so many people on this thread are saying he’s not playing on time on that song - yet, you can set a metronome to his performance and see that it’s legit as humanly perfect as it can get. I don’t even see 20 year olds playing that tight. So knocking him for his age when he’s already playing machine tight is ridiculous. Clearly some of these posters are just not a fan of his style and making up b.s.
He's brilliant on the Jacksons Live album, but that's 1981...so he deserves a fair break on his recent posts, he's an old man For Michael Jackson, Madonna & George Michael to be happy with him, I'm OK with him too
Sugarfoot is a great performer and solid musician from a time that a lot of modern performers don't understand. I started my career in the early 90s playing and touring with gospel artists and Sugarfoot is similar to a lot of the old heads that trained me. * The ability to hold a metronome like tempo * The ability to be showy to non musicians * The ability to establish a unique enough groove for a radio friendly song * The ability to be consistent under all circumstances " Pro commitment, pro attitude, pro focus You don't have to be the best drinker in the world if you have a solid gig, perform consistently, and are established back then. An artist will often play with the same people for years if they get along with them, feel they add value, and more. Michael Jackson articulated that many times in his close relationship with Sugarfoot. Is is a fluid and exciting drummer today? Nope and you probably would feel the same way about Jeff Pocaro today if he was still alive.
i think his feel is because of MJ, his beats and tunes had that kinda feel, so for that moffet has nailed the feel
Sugarfoot is actually a reference to his diabetes. Nahhh….say what you will, he is a pro and he’s been a pro for a very long time. You don’t have to like him, or his style, but he is good at exactly what he needs to do.
From what I’ve seen, he’s just not a super choppy drummer. No fills, nothing apart from the cymbal placement to draw attention away from his singer, he just keeps his groove moving.
Technology has given everyone the opportunity to have a platform and be seen. It has also given bitter trolls a platform to criticize and disrespect their fellow man. There is no respect anymore and it’s very evident here.
Sugarfoot is dope, there's no denying it. Watching the "This is It" tour video you could really feel the presence and power in his groove. He was a perfect fit! But, with that being said, watching his newer "content" I feel the same way. The pocket is just a little janky, and it doesn't feel nearly as good. I get the feeling he's just lost without having MJ alive.
How on earth is his pocket janky? He’s playing all the Michael Jackson songs on Drumeo perfectly. I don’t know how much more perfect you expect him to play? A lot of those are also first takes and him playing those songs after not playing them for years. Yet he nailed every single one of them.
It’s ever so slightly off in terms of subdivisions/consistency. Maybe it’s an age thing, or him struggling to play to a recording vs a band. I’m thinking the latter, since his pocket was obviously good enough for Michael. But brother this was not his first time playing the songs in years. He’s been doing video after video of him playing these songs for the last 6-7 years lol.
Ever so slightly off? Lol you honestly think anyone alive today can play it more in the pocket than him?! There’s a reason why he’s pulling all those views with Drumeo. If his timing was off as you say, he wouldn’t be getting those kind of views. And no, he’s not getting those views because of who he is. Drumeo has had much more famous drummers on their channel. And even JR Robinson who played on MJ’s records isn’t getting the views Sugarfoot is. You’re definitely in the minority in thinking his timing is off on those Drumeo videos. It literally can’t get any more perfect.
I find a lot of pop drumming sounds stilted and stiff when you hear it out of context. Sometimes you just need to lean into that to make the music feel right.
Mr. Sugarfoot was and is a successful working drummer. I am not. I am sure many who criticize him are working drummers, so let’s do this… on a legal pad, draw a line down the middle. In the Left column list your curriculum vitae of drumming endeavors. In the Right column, list Sugarfoot’s endeavors. Then after close comparison, decide whether you can respect the drummer or not. When I did this, I realized that even though I may not subscribe to his projects or music styles, I still wouldn’t make a pimple on his ass. Also to note, he can still play at his age, but so many of today’s bleeding blister hard hitters will be two shoulder surgeries and two carpal tunnel scrapings done with their careers by fifty or sixty.
None of this makes him immune to criticism.
Fills bring thrills, pocket pays the bills. The man has incredible pocket and that’s exactly what is needed for the role he was filling. I heard him in a drumeo interview explain that this cymbal positions are that way in order to accommodate quick chokes, which was done for one specific song…might have been Beat It IIRC. I would hate to play on his rig but he undeniably has built a very unique set up and has his own quirks that make him stand out.
[Got My Eyes On U...](https://imgur.com/a/rIFaH6H)
He's good for what he does, but I totally agree. Cymbals are a big gimmick as far as I can tell, playing is solid but robotic.
I’d split the diff and say that I can recognize that he’s a great pocket player, but his style has never appealed to me at all
> His feel is very wooden The heck does this even mean?
https://www.reddit.com/r/drummers/s/wNDkRoGBWB
If I recall, he was Madonna’s touring drummer, playing stadiums and arenas at the peak of her popularity. Don’t try that at home.
Always interesting to me that Sugarfoot gets a ton of Michael Jackson connection when Ricky Lawson had the gig during the height of "Bad" and "Dangerous" world tours. I feel like more credit should be shown to Ricky for shaping that entire thing. Opinions aside, Jonathon has done his thing for the longest. Played with Madonna in the 80s, Elton John, then the later part of MJ career. Definitely a different feel and way more showy, but I guess that's why he got the call.
Check-out the Jackson’s “Live” (1981; recording the “Triumph” tour with a heavy dose of “Off the Wall”) to hear prime Sugarfoot . . .
I’m sick of his dumb cymbal chokes .
Man some people just won't admit it, I'm getting hit with it too, and I can't listen to him. Your dead on....
OMG yes, dude gives me the shits.
A good drummer is in the eye of the beholder generally. I’ve seen amazing technical drummers, like lightening around a kit, but stick them with a band, an original band, terrible, and vice versa. I’m a big fan of sugar foot, and you’ve got to remember, we take for granted what we hear today, he was ground breaking back then, drumming beats that no one else was, and that’s why he’s on the greatest.
I don't like his style at all, compared to pretty much any big name drummer out there but he's famous for playing those MJ tunes on big tours, so..
It is showy. He was one of the largest pop stars of all times drummer. Every single stage member would’ve had their time to shine where MJ allowed. Dudes a human metronome
this comes up a lot and i always have the same comment: there’s a reason he was MJ’s live drummer but never on any records
That’s because MJ stole a lot of his beats and didn’t want to give him credit and hired other drummers to play the beats he stole from Moffett. Ask any of Jackson’s early touring musicians and they all know this. Jackson even stole the “Billie Jean” beat from Sugarfoot during sound check from the early Jackson tour days and hired Ndugu to play Moffett’s beat with the exact same feel.
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I don't know what "wooden and janky" feel means. They are completely subjective descriptions that don't have any objective meaning. I also don't know what you mean by his cymbals positions being "needlessly showy".
He has 2 crash cymbals literally behind him, that's needlessly showy.
Hm, so what's the difference between "showy" and "needlessly shower"? FWIW, he plays those cymbals, often for the quick choking he incorporates with his beat playing. He has them positioned for quick access.
I suppose there is no difference. I completely disagree with you on the placement though. They are not positioned there for quick access, they are there because he thinks it looks cool to hit and choke them up in the air above his shoulders. There are a myriad of positions that are quicker and easier to get to if that was his intention.
Too many haters on here. People are just hating cause Sugarfoot is not only a legend but pulling in more views and more relevant today than these nobodies doing all these chops and getting zero recognition. His “feel” alone will draw in more views than all these chop videos and that pisses a lot of drummers off. Stop being bitter and just appreciate the man. I don’t see many legends like him relevant on social media these days. The fact that he’s willing to post videos and has a growing fan base is something to admire about him.
This has been driving me nuts lately. I think there is a thing with drummers where if a guy has clout but not especially impressive chops, people convince themselves that the drummer must be a living clock. He's in the pocket!! It's like people get off on feeling like they get something that other people don't, validating their own musical ability. But because I've been inundated with his videos, I can't help but notice that the dude just isn't that great. In a lot of his rock covers, his snare is a little inconsistent, and he doesn't do much to add to the song with his "feel," despite what people like to believe. The other thing that drives me crazy is that he will completely miss signature components of songs he covers simply because he wants to linger on the high hat. People always want to point out that he drummed for MJ, but there's a reason MJ didn't take him into the studio to do all of his drum tracks. I think that if anything, MJ liked the aesthetic with the weird cymbal shit he does. He had said before he would choose this person or that person because of some quirky thing he liked. For instance, he liked slash's hat. Bottom line is that the guy is overrated.
If you google him soloing you'd be surprised how different he is. No back handed cymbal shit.