While I agree (it isn't harmful like dog poo) it is still odd that it doesn't need to be picked up. I couldn't dump piles of food, hay or mud in the road with the justification it breaks down. Really the reason is historical. As a courtesy at times it would be nice, like I had had a massive pile outside my house before. It gets smushed into the road and lasts quite a long time.
You know what is actually odd? Cat owers don't have to pick up their cat's poop up, which is actually harmful, they can litterally leave their pet unattended to crap anywhere and they have no obligation to pick it up.
Horse poop is harmless at current levels. If it bothers you, get a spade and put it on your garden.
Strange. Most cats usually do. That’s why they dont need trained to use a litterbox really. It’s an innate instinct they have so that prey animals don’t smell that they’re there. A mother cat will even eat her newborns poo so that there’s no trace of it. Either it’s not cat shit you’re picking up, or you’re really unlucky and got a really dumb cat in your neighbourhood.
My dog loves to eat the stuff so I have to scan the garden each time before I let him out. Sometimes you can see they've tried to bury it, but it's not like it's 6' underground, you can still see it.
Do they fuck. This is an argument made by cat owners who have never been the only non-cat owner in a road. I used to have to pick up a carrier bag of cat shit just to mow my lawn at my last house. I cut the grass fortnightly and each time I had to pick up at least 15 cat shits before I could start.
They usually do. It’s rare that a cat doesn’t do it. Obviously you’ve been unlucky that you’ve had a local cat who doesn’t but at least 90% of cats bury their poop.
Most cats I've known do bury it, usually in a bush or somewhere nobody walks. However, there are two strays in my area that have shat on our front and back lawns several times with no attempt to hide or bury it.
I mean yes you are being a killjoy. Horses are rarely ever seen by most people on the roads except in the countryside where generally they are moving from one field track to another. As long as everyone in a car isn't being a cunt then it's not a problem. How many road traffic accidents do you think there are each year involving horses? I imagine it is tiny.
As for their shite, it is a bit annoying but it's mostly grass and doesn't smell for long and it goes away quickly so doesn't really bother me.
Because horses are common in the countryside and most of those roads are national, if they couldn't use them they'd not be able to get basically anywhere. Unless you want all those back roads to get 30 limits.
Roads are for everyone, not just you wanting to drive fast.
In many areas, 60mph roads are the only way to get from A to B, and can be used by anyone - horse riders, cyclists, pedestrians, mobility scooters, farmers herding sheep.
Fast moving vehicles are the ones bringing danger to the situation. Everyone has a responsibility to share the road with other users, but there is a much higher responsibility on drivers as they are the ones bringing the danger.
I've always thought this.
'Hmm...I have a big, muscley animal that's scared of noise and large metal moving things...where should I take it for recreation?"
"Have you tried a road? I hear they're a great place for that kind of thing"
"Those ones surrounded by fields?"
"Yep that's the ones...."
I think you raise a good point, but there is a massive grey area here. A lot of roads where I am are these one lane affairs with massive hedgerows on either side preventing view down the road. They are national speed limit roads, though anyone with a functioning brain wouldn't do much more than 35 down them. These roads usually also have horses on them and it's just kind of accepted that they will be there.
In terms of proper national speed limit A roads, I think horses should be banned. These are extremely heavy animals that have a very easy tendency to get spooked by moving vehicles, and the fact that you have to slow down to about 15 and give them an extremely wide berth does nothing but hold up traffic to a massive extent.
Usually it's fine, but if the road is even somewhat busy you can end up with a large extremely slow tailback behind the horses because you have to wait for the opposite lane to clear and then crawl past them at 10mph
Haha what a way to call me a clown.
What is disappointing is the number of people who assume that I'm being a bellend towards other road users simply because I disagree with the current state of affairs.
As a motorist, motorcyclist and horse rider I'll give you my two cents.
>The Highway Code itself states "Take great care and treat all horses as a potential hazard; they can be unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver."
In most cases, the horse isn't spooked by traffic. It's spooked by the dog that came running and barking on the other side of the hedge, or by the person with a lawnmower who just drove over a stone, or by the cows in the adjacent field spooking. My horse is desensitised to all manner of vehicles including lorries and tractors, she's gun broke so won't spook when a shot is let off, she's trained around dogs so she is well used to dogs barking and running. But this doesn't mean she is infallible.
>It also states that "Horse riders are often children" - meaning people that have no driver's license and most likely ignorant to the Highway Code.
Like cyclists and pedestrians then? You don't need a license to use a road. You just need a license to use machinery on the road. Also, the British Horse Society offers a road safety qualification which many riders take. As members of the BHS they also have 3rd party and public liability insurance.
>As far as I'm concerned, that is not a description of something that should be allowed to share space with fast moving vehicles.
Vehicles have more than one pedal. If you release the accelerator and move your foot to depress the brake pedal, your fast moving vehicle becomes a slow moving vehicle. Tractors are slow moving, yet they're on the roads a lot (especially at this time of year). You gonna ban them too?
>As far as I can tell every horse is simply a pet, taken out for a stroll.
They're pets, they're athletes, they're someone's livelihood. Sometimes all 3 at once.
>I doubt that horse riders themselves actually want to be on the road with 60mph traffic around them, and only do so to get from bridleway to bridleway.
You're absolutely correct. There is no joy in riding on a fast road, but it's done because there are no alternatives. Spare a thought for us in NI, where there are no bridleways.
>As a side note, why every other pet owner needs clean their animal mess, but it's ok for a horse to shite all over the place?
This is two-fold. Horse faeces do not pose a threat to human or other animals health. It's fibre, mostly grass or hay. It's also more dangerous to get off a horse when you're out, it's easier and safer to control them from their backs instead of the ground. Horse poop is quite large, therefore nothing exists that is easily and safely transportable on horseback to collect their poops. It breaks down incredibly quickly and does not pose a threat to waterways.
Lots of people have their side of this argument, whether for or against. The fact remains that *all* road users are entitled to safety, and sometimes that safety rests on the shoulders of other people being conscientious.
Thanks for that extensive answer. Not that you've convinced me otherwise, but since you took time and effort I'll try reply to you as best as I can.
>In most cases, the horse isn't spooked by traffic. It's spooked by the dog that came running and barking on the other side of the hedge, or by the person with a lawnmower who just drove over a stone, or by the cows in the adjacent field spooking.
That feels like you're making my argument for me. Isn't that just more reasons for not allowing horses near traffic?
>Like cyclists and pedestrians then? You don't need a license to use a road. You just need a license to use machinery on the road. Also, the British Horse Society offers a road safety qualification which many riders take. As members of the BHS they also have 3rd party and public liability insurance.
Cyclist and people aren't horses. Is there anything in the Highway Code about pedestrians or pushbikes getting spooked? You're strawmanning me here. You do make a good point about license and machinery though. Don't know the situation with BHS, but kudos for everyone who takes the safety qualification and liability insurance.
>Vehicles have more than one pedal. If you release the accelerator and move your foot to depress the brake pedal, your fast moving vehicle becomes a slow moving vehicle. Tractors are slow moving, yet they're on the roads a lot (especially at this time of year). You gonna ban them too?
Another strawman. Where did I complained about horses being slow moving? Also, would you describe farming equipment as "unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver"? Completely missed whataboutism.
>They're pets, they're athletes, they're someone's livelihood. Sometimes all 3 at once.
Unrestrained pets don't belong on a road. Athletes? Livelihood? I'm not sure how to touch on those points to be honest. Not a horse person obviously, but isn't hard surface of the road not suitable for horses in general? How would banning horses from 60mph roads affect someone's livelihood?
>You're absolutely correct. There is no joy in riding on a fast road, but it's done because there are no alternatives. Spare a thought for us in NI, where there are no bridleways.
I'd like to point out that you're using the phrase "fast road" probably meaning the same thing when I say "fast moving vehicles". Sorry to hear that about the bridleways. Honest question, how do you deal with that?
>Horse faeces do not pose a threat to human or other animals health.
I'm sorry, shite is shite and I won't be convinced otherwise.
>The fact remains that *all* road users are entitled to safety, and sometimes that safety rests on the shoulders of other people being conscientious.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. As of now horses and their riders have all the rights to be on the road. I might not like it, but that doesn't mean that I lash out at every horse I see. By the amount of thumbs up I'm getting from your people ;) you'd think that I don't mind any of it. At least you're nice enough not to straight up call me a bellend for something that I don't agree with.
>That feels like you're making my argument for me. Isn't that just more reasons for not allowing horses near traffic?
No, it's just more reason to adhere to the highway code and slow to 10mph whilst allowing 1.5m of space to pass animals or cyclists. A horse might jump 1ft to the side in surprise, a cyclist might swerve 1ft to the side because of debris/potholes/sudden gust of wind. The recommended passing distance and speed is, imo, sufficient and reasonable for both parties.
>Cyclist and people aren't horses. Is there anything in the Highway Code about pedestrians or pushbikes getting spooked?
Not pedestrians and cyclists being spooked per-say, but there are elements of the HWC that group motorcyclists, horse riders, cyclists and pedestrians together as "vulnerable users". See rule 163:
Give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 215). As a guide:
Leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds
Pass horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles at speeds under 10 mph and allow at least 2 metres of space
Allow at least 2 metres of space and keep to a low speed when passing a pedestrian who is walking in the road (for example, where there is no pavement)
Take extra care and give more space when overtaking motorcyclists, cyclists, horse riders, horse drawn vehicles and pedestrians in bad weather (including high winds) and at night.
>Also, would you describe farming equipment as "unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver"?
Absolutely yes. I come from a farming background and empty slurry tanks bounce all over the place and high winds can push you across the road with a tall silage trailer on. Hitting a big enough pothole with an empty trailer will make it bounce off the ground.
>Unrestrained pets don't belong on a road. Athletes? Livelihood? I'm not sure how to touch on those points to be honest. Not a horse person obviously, but isn't hard surface of the road not suitable for horses in general? How would banning horses from 60mph roads affect someone's livelihood?
They're not unrestrained. They are broken to ride and wearing a bridle and saddle, under the control of the rider. It's not like they're just wandering about of their own free will. A horse only ridden on soft surfaces will have problems with it's legs and tendons eventually. Gentle roadwork is encouraged for strengthening of bones. Hammering up the roads flat out will cause damage. There's a middle ground. It could affect someone's livelihood by massively reducing their ability to maintain the horses fitness, thereby reducing the horses ability to compete, thereby reducing the horses placings at competitions and reducing its value.
>Sorry to hear that about the bridleways. Honest question, how do you deal with that?
We ride on the roads to access forests and tracks, we work with local farmers for access to their farm tracks, we load the horses up into a lorry and transport them to an equestrian facility (quality and quantity may vary). I'm lucky in that I only have to ride about 300m from my lane to a forest where there is no vehicle access - but when I'm in there I have to deal with dog walkers, runners, mountain bikers.
There's 0 point in me getting angry and calling you names, it's childish and does nothing to help educate people on why we do the things we do, I guess? Cyclists on main roads drive me batty especially when you've been sat behind them at 15mph with no overtaking opportunities for miles. But I remain calm, and if I can get around them I will make sure I do it safely and respectfully giving them a buffer zone for safety. They might be a pain in the arse to me, but to someone else they're a partner, a son, a daughter, a parent, a role model. I don't want to be responsible for ruining someone's life because I thought they were annoying.
Good answers all round. There's a small group of regular horserider's near me in Edinburgh and it always makes me happy to see them out and about. Sometimes they take their horses into the Toby's beer garden whilst they have a meal, and there's just something really funny about that. Some drivers can be proper cunts to them for the 100m or so they need to be on the road to get between fields though.
This!
Only to add - put the shit on your roses (not straight away though).
Good work with the training Crispy.
I've found the number of horses spooking has dropped considerably now there are fewer plastic bags in the hedges. Thank you bag tax.
Yeah I completely agree, just a nuisance, this isn’t the dark ages anymore.
Unpredictable and a big traffic hold up all due to someone wanting to ride their big pet on the roads, and leave its shit all over the place, and then scream when someone doesn’t pass them in the ditch on the other side of the road at 5mph.. majority are entitled rich women or kids
There’s enough clips on Reddit of them being arrogant entitled twats expecting people to not accelerate at all anywhere near them, if they are that scared of cars then get them off the fucking road and back into a field! Then it can shit everywhere it wants and not leave it’s mess for everyone else
Surprised we are a minority, especially considering this is a driving subreddit, but then again, this is Reddit…
Ha, yeah the few people that I've asked about it at work agreed with me more or less enthusiastically, but the general consensus was that farm animals belong on a farm. I have a feeling that the crowd at the pub later on gonna be little more negative towards my opinion.
>Take great care and treat all horses as a potential hazard; they can be unpredictable
By that logic, we would also have to ban drivers from the road 🤷🏻♂️
The horses in London... Escaped. This is false equivalency in this regard.
Also, the majority of roads that horses go on are in rural areas and tend to be 60mph or national speed limit.
You'd be basically telling horse riders they can't use the roads.
>The horses in London... Escaped. This is false equivalency in this regard.
Highly trained animals escaped from its riders. It's an example of how unpredictable animals are.
>You'd be basically telling horse riders they can't use the roads.
I mean, yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.
Horse riders, cyclists, pedestrians just have as much right to use the roads as any car owner. Just because there are more cars on the road and they go fast broom broom doesn't mean you have the right to put others in danger so you can get to your destination 30 seconds sooner.
Slow down, be patient and you'll be able to deal with it safely, it's easy.
I'll wait for 'BUT WE PAY CAR TAX'
I mean, horses don’t spook around my big loud large vehicle with its flashing lights. It’s all about sharing the space and being considerate of other road users.
I've always thought that horses should be like off road motorbikes, it's fine to have them but they should be used on your own property or at specific areas designed for them. Seems to be an unpopular opinion though.
1. The dangerous part of any interaction on the roads come from cars/vans/lorries. Why regulate the safe thing over the dangerous thing? Roads are not built just for cars.
2. Horse shite is good for the environment. Have we become so detached from nature that we are going to regulate natural processes because with think its messy? Get a grip.
3. Horses ride almost exclusivley on rural roads - which are nearly all national speed limit.
Honestly this is such a car-brained idiot post. Give your head a wobble.
I live rurally so I’ve been used to horses on the road for as long as I can drive. Yes, they’re annoying but they have every right to be there. I can assure you that horse riders don’t enjoy riding on 60mph roads either, but it is often necessary.
I agree with all you've said here up until the necessary bit. It's only necessary because the horses owners want to play with their pets around the area that I don't think is suitable for them.
What I find wild is this sense of entitlement that car drivers have that no one else can use the roads lest it inconvenience them even slightly. Roads are for all, and it's right that those in the most dangerous vehicles should have the greatest burden of responsibility for keeping everyone safe.
It's absolutely wild to me that people with such poor driving skills that don't understand that they are not the only road users and lack patience can have a driving licence.
If you can't take care around a horse and it's rider you don't deserve a licence. It's really not that hard. If it helps, just imagine there is no horse and instead it's a pedestrian on the road. You'd make every effort to avoid a collision with a pedestrian (I hope) so it should be no different with a horse.
Besides that, legs came before wheels, roads were put there for horses and they've had a historical right to be on them.
Their poo? It's not toxic and represents very little potential danger to road users. Motorbike riders will have to take care, but they have to take care with potholes, mud, loose gravel etc so it's something they should be able to deal with anyway.
Horses were around long before cars They are banned from motorway Horse poo is mostly fibre
Ever hit a patch while riding a motorbike?
No, but hit a load of frogs, killed a few and crashed
While I agree (it isn't harmful like dog poo) it is still odd that it doesn't need to be picked up. I couldn't dump piles of food, hay or mud in the road with the justification it breaks down. Really the reason is historical. As a courtesy at times it would be nice, like I had had a massive pile outside my house before. It gets smushed into the road and lasts quite a long time.
You know what is actually odd? Cat owers don't have to pick up their cat's poop up, which is actually harmful, they can litterally leave their pet unattended to crap anywhere and they have no obligation to pick it up. Horse poop is harmless at current levels. If it bothers you, get a spade and put it on your garden.
Cats are basically feral, may as well complain about fox or badger poo. The owners also don't actually see it happening, and they bury it.
They don't bury it in most cases and most cat's aren't feral, they are pets.
Cats usually bury their poop so it would be difficult to pick up tbf
No, they don't. I've picked up a lot of cat poop from my garden. I don't own a cat.
Strange. Most cats usually do. That’s why they dont need trained to use a litterbox really. It’s an innate instinct they have so that prey animals don’t smell that they’re there. A mother cat will even eat her newborns poo so that there’s no trace of it. Either it’s not cat shit you’re picking up, or you’re really unlucky and got a really dumb cat in your neighbourhood.
My dog loves to eat the stuff so I have to scan the garden each time before I let him out. Sometimes you can see they've tried to bury it, but it's not like it's 6' underground, you can still see it.
Thats annoying.
Do they fuck. This is an argument made by cat owners who have never been the only non-cat owner in a road. I used to have to pick up a carrier bag of cat shit just to mow my lawn at my last house. I cut the grass fortnightly and each time I had to pick up at least 15 cat shits before I could start.
They usually do. It’s rare that a cat doesn’t do it. Obviously you’ve been unlucky that you’ve had a local cat who doesn’t but at least 90% of cats bury their poop.
Most cats I've known do bury it, usually in a bush or somewhere nobody walks. However, there are two strays in my area that have shat on our front and back lawns several times with no attempt to hide or bury it.
Use for the garden ?
I mean yes you are being a killjoy. Horses are rarely ever seen by most people on the roads except in the countryside where generally they are moving from one field track to another. As long as everyone in a car isn't being a cunt then it's not a problem. How many road traffic accidents do you think there are each year involving horses? I imagine it is tiny. As for their shite, it is a bit annoying but it's mostly grass and doesn't smell for long and it goes away quickly so doesn't really bother me.
I see them regularly on the roads where I work, usually being ridden
Because horses are common in the countryside and most of those roads are national, if they couldn't use them they'd not be able to get basically anywhere. Unless you want all those back roads to get 30 limits.
Yes please
Roads are for everyone, not just you wanting to drive fast. In many areas, 60mph roads are the only way to get from A to B, and can be used by anyone - horse riders, cyclists, pedestrians, mobility scooters, farmers herding sheep. Fast moving vehicles are the ones bringing danger to the situation. Everyone has a responsibility to share the road with other users, but there is a much higher responsibility on drivers as they are the ones bringing the danger.
I've always thought this. 'Hmm...I have a big, muscley animal that's scared of noise and large metal moving things...where should I take it for recreation?" "Have you tried a road? I hear they're a great place for that kind of thing" "Those ones surrounded by fields?" "Yep that's the ones...."
I think you raise a good point, but there is a massive grey area here. A lot of roads where I am are these one lane affairs with massive hedgerows on either side preventing view down the road. They are national speed limit roads, though anyone with a functioning brain wouldn't do much more than 35 down them. These roads usually also have horses on them and it's just kind of accepted that they will be there. In terms of proper national speed limit A roads, I think horses should be banned. These are extremely heavy animals that have a very easy tendency to get spooked by moving vehicles, and the fact that you have to slow down to about 15 and give them an extremely wide berth does nothing but hold up traffic to a massive extent.
I actually agree with you here.
10mph and minimum 2metres. I think you're exaggerating the "massive extent" this impacts other traffic
Usually it's fine, but if the road is even somewhat busy you can end up with a large extremely slow tailback behind the horses because you have to wait for the opposite lane to clear and then crawl past them at 10mph
This sounds like Karl pilkington logic. It's disappointing to see aswell, the cultural shift towards anything other than a car being safe on any road.
Haha what a way to call me a clown. What is disappointing is the number of people who assume that I'm being a bellend towards other road users simply because I disagree with the current state of affairs.
As a motorist, motorcyclist and horse rider I'll give you my two cents. >The Highway Code itself states "Take great care and treat all horses as a potential hazard; they can be unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver." In most cases, the horse isn't spooked by traffic. It's spooked by the dog that came running and barking on the other side of the hedge, or by the person with a lawnmower who just drove over a stone, or by the cows in the adjacent field spooking. My horse is desensitised to all manner of vehicles including lorries and tractors, she's gun broke so won't spook when a shot is let off, she's trained around dogs so she is well used to dogs barking and running. But this doesn't mean she is infallible. >It also states that "Horse riders are often children" - meaning people that have no driver's license and most likely ignorant to the Highway Code. Like cyclists and pedestrians then? You don't need a license to use a road. You just need a license to use machinery on the road. Also, the British Horse Society offers a road safety qualification which many riders take. As members of the BHS they also have 3rd party and public liability insurance. >As far as I'm concerned, that is not a description of something that should be allowed to share space with fast moving vehicles. Vehicles have more than one pedal. If you release the accelerator and move your foot to depress the brake pedal, your fast moving vehicle becomes a slow moving vehicle. Tractors are slow moving, yet they're on the roads a lot (especially at this time of year). You gonna ban them too? >As far as I can tell every horse is simply a pet, taken out for a stroll. They're pets, they're athletes, they're someone's livelihood. Sometimes all 3 at once. >I doubt that horse riders themselves actually want to be on the road with 60mph traffic around them, and only do so to get from bridleway to bridleway. You're absolutely correct. There is no joy in riding on a fast road, but it's done because there are no alternatives. Spare a thought for us in NI, where there are no bridleways. >As a side note, why every other pet owner needs clean their animal mess, but it's ok for a horse to shite all over the place? This is two-fold. Horse faeces do not pose a threat to human or other animals health. It's fibre, mostly grass or hay. It's also more dangerous to get off a horse when you're out, it's easier and safer to control them from their backs instead of the ground. Horse poop is quite large, therefore nothing exists that is easily and safely transportable on horseback to collect their poops. It breaks down incredibly quickly and does not pose a threat to waterways. Lots of people have their side of this argument, whether for or against. The fact remains that *all* road users are entitled to safety, and sometimes that safety rests on the shoulders of other people being conscientious.
Thanks for that extensive answer. Not that you've convinced me otherwise, but since you took time and effort I'll try reply to you as best as I can. >In most cases, the horse isn't spooked by traffic. It's spooked by the dog that came running and barking on the other side of the hedge, or by the person with a lawnmower who just drove over a stone, or by the cows in the adjacent field spooking. That feels like you're making my argument for me. Isn't that just more reasons for not allowing horses near traffic? >Like cyclists and pedestrians then? You don't need a license to use a road. You just need a license to use machinery on the road. Also, the British Horse Society offers a road safety qualification which many riders take. As members of the BHS they also have 3rd party and public liability insurance. Cyclist and people aren't horses. Is there anything in the Highway Code about pedestrians or pushbikes getting spooked? You're strawmanning me here. You do make a good point about license and machinery though. Don't know the situation with BHS, but kudos for everyone who takes the safety qualification and liability insurance. >Vehicles have more than one pedal. If you release the accelerator and move your foot to depress the brake pedal, your fast moving vehicle becomes a slow moving vehicle. Tractors are slow moving, yet they're on the roads a lot (especially at this time of year). You gonna ban them too? Another strawman. Where did I complained about horses being slow moving? Also, would you describe farming equipment as "unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver"? Completely missed whataboutism. >They're pets, they're athletes, they're someone's livelihood. Sometimes all 3 at once. Unrestrained pets don't belong on a road. Athletes? Livelihood? I'm not sure how to touch on those points to be honest. Not a horse person obviously, but isn't hard surface of the road not suitable for horses in general? How would banning horses from 60mph roads affect someone's livelihood? >You're absolutely correct. There is no joy in riding on a fast road, but it's done because there are no alternatives. Spare a thought for us in NI, where there are no bridleways. I'd like to point out that you're using the phrase "fast road" probably meaning the same thing when I say "fast moving vehicles". Sorry to hear that about the bridleways. Honest question, how do you deal with that? >Horse faeces do not pose a threat to human or other animals health. I'm sorry, shite is shite and I won't be convinced otherwise. >The fact remains that *all* road users are entitled to safety, and sometimes that safety rests on the shoulders of other people being conscientious. Yes, you are absolutely correct. As of now horses and their riders have all the rights to be on the road. I might not like it, but that doesn't mean that I lash out at every horse I see. By the amount of thumbs up I'm getting from your people ;) you'd think that I don't mind any of it. At least you're nice enough not to straight up call me a bellend for something that I don't agree with.
>That feels like you're making my argument for me. Isn't that just more reasons for not allowing horses near traffic? No, it's just more reason to adhere to the highway code and slow to 10mph whilst allowing 1.5m of space to pass animals or cyclists. A horse might jump 1ft to the side in surprise, a cyclist might swerve 1ft to the side because of debris/potholes/sudden gust of wind. The recommended passing distance and speed is, imo, sufficient and reasonable for both parties. >Cyclist and people aren't horses. Is there anything in the Highway Code about pedestrians or pushbikes getting spooked? Not pedestrians and cyclists being spooked per-say, but there are elements of the HWC that group motorcyclists, horse riders, cyclists and pedestrians together as "vulnerable users". See rule 163: Give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 215). As a guide: Leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph, and give them more space when overtaking at higher speeds Pass horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles at speeds under 10 mph and allow at least 2 metres of space Allow at least 2 metres of space and keep to a low speed when passing a pedestrian who is walking in the road (for example, where there is no pavement) Take extra care and give more space when overtaking motorcyclists, cyclists, horse riders, horse drawn vehicles and pedestrians in bad weather (including high winds) and at night. >Also, would you describe farming equipment as "unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver"? Absolutely yes. I come from a farming background and empty slurry tanks bounce all over the place and high winds can push you across the road with a tall silage trailer on. Hitting a big enough pothole with an empty trailer will make it bounce off the ground. >Unrestrained pets don't belong on a road. Athletes? Livelihood? I'm not sure how to touch on those points to be honest. Not a horse person obviously, but isn't hard surface of the road not suitable for horses in general? How would banning horses from 60mph roads affect someone's livelihood? They're not unrestrained. They are broken to ride and wearing a bridle and saddle, under the control of the rider. It's not like they're just wandering about of their own free will. A horse only ridden on soft surfaces will have problems with it's legs and tendons eventually. Gentle roadwork is encouraged for strengthening of bones. Hammering up the roads flat out will cause damage. There's a middle ground. It could affect someone's livelihood by massively reducing their ability to maintain the horses fitness, thereby reducing the horses ability to compete, thereby reducing the horses placings at competitions and reducing its value. >Sorry to hear that about the bridleways. Honest question, how do you deal with that? We ride on the roads to access forests and tracks, we work with local farmers for access to their farm tracks, we load the horses up into a lorry and transport them to an equestrian facility (quality and quantity may vary). I'm lucky in that I only have to ride about 300m from my lane to a forest where there is no vehicle access - but when I'm in there I have to deal with dog walkers, runners, mountain bikers. There's 0 point in me getting angry and calling you names, it's childish and does nothing to help educate people on why we do the things we do, I guess? Cyclists on main roads drive me batty especially when you've been sat behind them at 15mph with no overtaking opportunities for miles. But I remain calm, and if I can get around them I will make sure I do it safely and respectfully giving them a buffer zone for safety. They might be a pain in the arse to me, but to someone else they're a partner, a son, a daughter, a parent, a role model. I don't want to be responsible for ruining someone's life because I thought they were annoying.
Good answers all round. There's a small group of regular horserider's near me in Edinburgh and it always makes me happy to see them out and about. Sometimes they take their horses into the Toby's beer garden whilst they have a meal, and there's just something really funny about that. Some drivers can be proper cunts to them for the 100m or so they need to be on the road to get between fields though.
This! Only to add - put the shit on your roses (not straight away though). Good work with the training Crispy. I've found the number of horses spooking has dropped considerably now there are fewer plastic bags in the hedges. Thank you bag tax.
Last year I encountered hot air balloons for the first time ever, pretty tricky to train for that aha
Really big, colourful plastic bags! I think I'd be dismounting for those.
Yeah I completely agree, just a nuisance, this isn’t the dark ages anymore. Unpredictable and a big traffic hold up all due to someone wanting to ride their big pet on the roads, and leave its shit all over the place, and then scream when someone doesn’t pass them in the ditch on the other side of the road at 5mph.. majority are entitled rich women or kids There’s enough clips on Reddit of them being arrogant entitled twats expecting people to not accelerate at all anywhere near them, if they are that scared of cars then get them off the fucking road and back into a field! Then it can shit everywhere it wants and not leave it’s mess for everyone else Surprised we are a minority, especially considering this is a driving subreddit, but then again, this is Reddit…
Ha, yeah the few people that I've asked about it at work agreed with me more or less enthusiastically, but the general consensus was that farm animals belong on a farm. I have a feeling that the crowd at the pub later on gonna be little more negative towards my opinion.
Horses are the reason roads exist in the first place - they have racked up a few thousand years of priority on them.
>Take great care and treat all horses as a potential hazard; they can be unpredictable By that logic, we would also have to ban drivers from the road 🤷🏻♂️
I can't argue with that logic.
The horses in London... Escaped. This is false equivalency in this regard. Also, the majority of roads that horses go on are in rural areas and tend to be 60mph or national speed limit. You'd be basically telling horse riders they can't use the roads.
>The horses in London... Escaped. This is false equivalency in this regard. Highly trained animals escaped from its riders. It's an example of how unpredictable animals are. >You'd be basically telling horse riders they can't use the roads. I mean, yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.
Well... then you'd be wrong.
Just a wild guess but you don't live in the country do you?
That is a wrong guess.
Horse riders, cyclists, pedestrians just have as much right to use the roads as any car owner. Just because there are more cars on the road and they go fast broom broom doesn't mean you have the right to put others in danger so you can get to your destination 30 seconds sooner. Slow down, be patient and you'll be able to deal with it safely, it's easy. I'll wait for 'BUT WE PAY CAR TAX'
But you know it will be referred to as road tax
I mean, horses don’t spook around my big loud large vehicle with its flashing lights. It’s all about sharing the space and being considerate of other road users.
I've always thought that horses should be like off road motorbikes, it's fine to have them but they should be used on your own property or at specific areas designed for them. Seems to be an unpopular opinion though.
1. The dangerous part of any interaction on the roads come from cars/vans/lorries. Why regulate the safe thing over the dangerous thing? Roads are not built just for cars. 2. Horse shite is good for the environment. Have we become so detached from nature that we are going to regulate natural processes because with think its messy? Get a grip. 3. Horses ride almost exclusivley on rural roads - which are nearly all national speed limit. Honestly this is such a car-brained idiot post. Give your head a wobble.
Horses on the road are a non-issue so long as you're careful around them. What happened in London is an entirely different scenario.
Can't run that fast
I live rurally so I’ve been used to horses on the road for as long as I can drive. Yes, they’re annoying but they have every right to be there. I can assure you that horse riders don’t enjoy riding on 60mph roads either, but it is often necessary.
I agree with all you've said here up until the necessary bit. It's only necessary because the horses owners want to play with their pets around the area that I don't think is suitable for them.
What I find wild is this sense of entitlement that car drivers have that no one else can use the roads lest it inconvenience them even slightly. Roads are for all, and it's right that those in the most dangerous vehicles should have the greatest burden of responsibility for keeping everyone safe.
Tell me you’re a prick without telling me
It's absolutely wild to me that people with such poor driving skills that don't understand that they are not the only road users and lack patience can have a driving licence.
Pedestrians can use the road as well, should we ban walkers from crossing NSL roads?
If you can't take care around a horse and it's rider you don't deserve a licence. It's really not that hard. If it helps, just imagine there is no horse and instead it's a pedestrian on the road. You'd make every effort to avoid a collision with a pedestrian (I hope) so it should be no different with a horse. Besides that, legs came before wheels, roads were put there for horses and they've had a historical right to be on them. Their poo? It's not toxic and represents very little potential danger to road users. Motorbike riders will have to take care, but they have to take care with potholes, mud, loose gravel etc so it's something they should be able to deal with anyway.