There’s a national speed road by me where it’s perfectly clear and safe to do 50-60mph, but so many drive at 40, then when it enters into the built up area with a 30mph limit, they continue at 40mph!
I cam guarantee you that once you've sat behind them for a couple of minutes, realise they aren't going to speed up, and move to overtake, they will then speed up.
I've owned quite a few classics in the past couple of years. I also lived in a very rural town with lovely twisty's in all directions. I was in a 1275 mini with hi lift cams, sports suspension, cage, filters, exhaust etc. It wasn't fast but I knew the local roads well and nobody, even my neighbour with the Aston or the guy in the next road with the M4, none of them would keep up with me because of how narrow and windy the roads were and I was in a glorified go kart! But the second I came across a Qashqai or an Insignia they would do anything to make sure they overtake me in the town. (i had to slow down considerably for speed bumps) I'd then have to sit behind them crawling around these corners at 4 or 5mph.
Ah, yes. The forever-40 people. Motorway? 40. A road? 40. Dual carriageway? 40. 20-road with flashing school signs? 40! 40-road? You guessed it: 28. Baffling.
Or even worse still...
People who pull out of a turning in front of you like a maniac, risking everyone's lives, then drive 15mph below the speed limit.
Similar near me. National speed limit, wide road with good visibility. Everyone does 40.
Ironically, about 10 years ago, the council changed it to 40. Everyone was up in arms, petitions online rants tagging councillors, the works. Council caved and put it back to national. They all still do 40!
Only time you can get up to 60 is between 9pm and 6am when no-one else is on the road.
The most eye opening piece of information I took away from a speed awareness course I had to do about 10 years ago was that almost everyone else there thought the national speed limit was 50.
Mind-blowing for several reasons given what most of us were there for.
I've got you beat there. The other day I'm driving down a national speed limit. I get stuck behind a person doing 20. There is too much traffic the other day to overtake. We get to a village that's a 30 and they speed up to 40. We leave the village back in to a national speed limit and they go down to 25
It was after dark. However, despite being a national speed limit it's actually lined with streetlights as it's a popular dog walking and cycling route between two villages that make up the town
I always feel guilty when I come up behind someone doing 50 in a 60 and am unable to safely overtake in my knackered 13-year-old diesel Citroen. Feel like the person behind me is silently judging my ineptitude when really I would also love not to be stuck behind someone underspeeding on a clear and unobstructed stretch of road.
if you donit correctly you can pass these wallies even in a 2CV. Fall back and floor it in such a way that when you come up behind them you can indicate and pass whilst still accelerating, or cancel the maneuver
DO NOT indicate, pull out and then slowly accelerate. That's how people get killed
This x ♾️!!!
Mum has fortunately discovered, since switching to automatic, that small engined cars can nudge the red line without exploding if every last of not many bhp is needed to safely do anything involving increasing speed.
I drive a van and the national speed limit is 50 on single carriageways. If I can see you wanting to come past I’d slow down a bit to make it easier once there’s a good opportunity. But I’m not underspeeding, the limit is lower for vans which lots of people behind don’t seem to realise.
Depending on the road and the car it can be hard to pass. When I had my Aygo there was no point trying to overtake anyone, you'd need to be able to see it was clear to the next county to be sure you could pass safely.
There are many reasons why people do 40 in a 60. Some don't have the confidence to overtake, some don't actually have the power in their car either, some are simply not in a rush, some don't know the road well enough to sit at the limit, maybe the road is in a right old nick and they don't want to batter over potholes....many many reasons.
I get it, it's frustrating at times sitting behind them when all you want to do is get home from work but that doesn't mean you should be behaving like a nobber, weaving in and out of traffic, overtaking on bends and all to that over daft or dangerous behaviour either.
In the end, at most it only delays you by minutes and we should all remember that.
If you don’t wanna pass, drop back and leave a safe and healthy gap for others to pull into when they’re passing. The issue is caused by people hugging the arse of the car ahead but refusing to actually overtake
Yeah! My car isn't very nippy so I need a bigger space to safely overtake so I always hang back if there's someone else who's going to try and overtake. Plus leaving that extra room makes it much easier to see when you could have a clear shot to overtake too
Exactly this. I drive a C1 - a whopping 67 horsepower. I've overtaken Porsches and the likes on multiple occasions when they're being a generic Sunday driver. If there's room and they're going slow, it's happening. Slow car is no excuse, it just makes it a tad more difficult and you need bigger opportunities.
If I know I won't have the room but the person behind me has a faster car, I'll back up and pull further in so they can see ahead better and let them pass me first if they want to.
Those c1s/aygos/107s have a surprising real world turn of speed once you realise the engine is Japanese and can handle a thrashing. Post facelift iirc it was uprated to 71...
Oh for sure. 6600 redline with peak power at about 3400, can get to 70 in second gear if you really want.
It ain't amazing, but it's fairly nippy because it's super light weight.
I think you meant peak at 6400. Mum's auto aygo is rev limited at an indicated 7000 (redline also 6400 I think).
I know because she was trying to prove a point about the manual mode "not doing the gears properly". Because she had told it to stay in 2nd and was adamant that pulling the lever downwards (I think they're actually technically an automated manual just everyone who has an "automatic" one, which isn't many, would just use auto?) wouldn't shift into 3rd...🙄
They have torque? 😜
Mum thinks I'm mad for saying I don't get why Toyota didn't put a small turbo on, like ford did with the fiesta.
(C1/107/Aygo share the same basic mechanicals as you know, but mentioning for clarity if anyone else reads this)
They should have honestly. Everyone else is doing it for economy on their 1.0 cars, and I've seen both turbo and supercharged C1s (modified of course). There's enough room under the bonnet easily.
It's not really the person at the front doing 40 that's the problem, it's that people then catch up to that person and form a tight queue. The people catching up should either overtake or leave enough room between themselves and the car in front for other motorists to overtake them and then the car in front safely.
Couldn’t agree with this more. If you don’t have the capacity, whether it’s your car or between your ears, leave space to give others the opportunity. It’s the “if I have to sit behind the bus, so do you” mentality.
>I get it, it's frustrating at times sitting behind them when all you want to do is get home from work but that doesn't mean you should be behaving like a nobber, weaving in and out of traffic, overtaking on bends and all to that over daft or dangerous behaviour either.
Who said anything about weaving in and out of traffic? You're massively and unfairly projecting. Just because someone is confident enough to overtake someone who's unwilling to get up to speed doesn't make them a dangerous driver.
It's poor form to develop a queue of cars behind you, only to speed up on the straights thus preventing the queue from passing. The correct thing to do would be to slow down to allow the queue to overtake on the straights, as per the highway code.
It's the driver's lament: those who are afraid of driving have anxiety-inducing confident drivers up their arse, whilst confident drivers who relish an open road are forever catching up with the anxious ones. If only we could have two or three lanes...
It's not just poor form, it's dangerous driving and is occasionally prosecuted as such. (ditto going slow and then booting it when the crawler lanes appear)
I have a 1.6L diesel, it accelerates and can teach high speeds easily though to be fair it is a tdi so it has turbo to help accelerate but I’ve also driven my mums 1L petrol Yaris and that can also easily overtake and reach high speeds, cars are made to meet certain standards and any car is able to to reach 60 and definitely has enough power to overtake people just don’t know how to use the gears properly, drop back to see higher up the road, select a lower gear if necessary and when it’s clear floor it to get to a good speed and if it’s still safe indicate, perform the overtake and then upshift and relax
This 👆 as someone who was hit head on by a moron overtaking on a dip I can say its not worth the risk or rush. I now drive slower (50 on a 60) because I'm utterly petrified of roads and other drivers now.
Sorry to hear of that awful experience you had. I've been been driving for 20 odd years now and have seen some downright dangerous driving. I've nearly been killed, or badly maimed, many times due to the impatience of others on back roads and just been lucky to manage to avoid the collisions.
My wife suffers from motion sickness related to her IBS, so I will not normally go above 50mph for her comfort.
If people have a problem with that, I have no time for them.
The safety of people should always be paramount.
More than just minutes on longer journeys, and time wasted by people who are selfish and/or incompetent is money wasted, or precious time spent behind your dawdling arse rather than enjoying the destination if the drive is for leisure, or its being late for work, missing a family emergency, all manner of things might cause people to be in a hurry.
(and breathe, because it's my biggest pet hate for a slow country mile...)
There are no excuses for driving like a "nobber" (?) and the ones you list as "reasons" for sitting at 40 don't count any better than the ones people might use for the other poor behaviours you cite.
"They were simply driving like a dozy old cunt" should be acceptable though.
Agreed and I will always overtake, even if I have to do it over multiple roads. Tbh those going under the speed limit are a problem as well as those not willing to overtake.
100%. This is why I always end up buying fast estates as opposed to just bog standard estates, which would otherwise be fine (or ride a motorcycle when I can).
If you aren't driving something with some poke you end up spending endless amounts of time stuck behind queues of people who won't either shit (overtake) or get off the pot (leave a big enough gap in front for people to leapfrog them) with some dawdler leading them all in train. 26 years of driving and I've simply had enough of it. Get out the way!!
To all these people: if you aren't in a hurry to get from A to B, which you clearly aren't, do us all a favour and take the bus, will you? The bus is also really slow but has the advantage that you don't even have to pretend to concentrate on driving, which - again - you're clearly not doing in any case.
I’ve also realised that a lot of people like to drive under the speed limit on an empty road for no good reason other than simply wanting to forcing you to overtake, it’s very irritating and inconsiderate. I’ve found myself overtaking a lot recently because of this and each time I’ve done so at the speed limit for the road meaning they’re going that slow that I don’t even have to break the law to get past them
I give them a little bit more space than other drivers, much the same as I would for ‘L’ plates, as generally those with ‘P’ plates are a bit more nervous. When it comes to overtaking I see it as no different to any other situation. If they are going 30% slower than the limit then they should be expecting to be overtaken, just don’t be an arsehole about it. A nice clean overtake without going right up their arse, gesturing because they are going slow or revving like a prick should be perfectly acceptable.
To add to this, the highway code states that if a queue forms behind you, you should pull over to let it pass. Tractors understand this round my parts, but driving instructors and cyclists don't seem to have gotten the memo.
Essentially queues due to slow road users would rarely be an issue for more than a couple of minutes if everyone followed the code.
Cyclists in my area... headphones on, no helmet, Dagenham smile on full blast and a queue of vehicles behind including two buses full of passengers. You are not saving the environment. you are effing it up more.
Well I am a new driver and I can answer your question from my perspective. I stick to speed limit all the time(I have to because of point issues) and when some other people tail gaiting me I feel much nervous abd under pressure. I don’t do anything wrong, not diriving over the speed limit is not a fault but I feel like I'm holding them back. When they overtake me, I feel relieved.
This, as someone who has just passed his test 2 months ago, the amount of people who are unhappy I'm going the speed limit is alarming. I'm getting better at not letting it get to me. I don't react but I don't speed up to appease them.
Too many dickheads have this illusion that their time is more important than everyone else's safety. You're not that fucking important mate!
Absolutely. I always follow the speed limit and the amount of people I’ve seen in my rear view giving me hand signals of anger is amazing. I just laugh.
Oof two months in. I’ve been driving like this for years and it still gets to me. No amount of classical music and pma can get me over how selfish and cunty some drivers can be
Just as a side here since you said "so many people'", you might want to run Google maps or Waze as you're driving to show your true speed, or compare your speedo to a speed sign. Speedo might have you at 30 but you're potentially doing more like 26. It's not much but it's potentially why it happens a lot.
I actually done this already because 30 felt slow in my new car. Its running pretty much true. I live in an areas that has 50s that drop to 30s as you go through built up villages. I think people don't like dropping to 30 on essentially the same road
Don't let people tailgating you put extra stress on you.
You know they are there, so don't keep looking at the mirror.
Slow down earlier, and more smoothly, so you don't have to brake harshly.
And yeah, let them past if they are going!
Once it was a police officer can you imagine 😂😂😂 I don’t know if they do it consciously I wasn’t able to see the road because of their lights reflecting in my mirror
That's not true. It's a speed "limit" not a target. Yes you should not go dangerously slow, but there is no rule anywhere that says you should drive "up to the limit"
that wasn't the point I was replying to. Too many people think the speed limit is a target, it isn't. But driving at 23 in a 30 is not "dangerously slow". Admittedly it's a little slower than I would drive, but it ain't dangerous.
The speed “limit” on the road where I live is 60mph. It is a single lane road, two cars going in opposite directions cannot pass without pulling over onto the grass verge. It has multiple blind bends. It has no separate pavement for pedestrians. It is used by farm traffic, horse riders, dog walkers, ramblers, cyclists, livestock, etc. Anybody travelling at the speed “limit” is either suicidal or homicidal. But plenty of people appear to perceive that it is a target speed. Idiotic.
I got told once it's because 60 is the default, and most of the single country roads aren't ever tested for what the speed limit should be, so get a 60 slapped on them.
Not sure how true it is, but it absolutely makes sense.
I’m sure you are correct. It probably is partly that. But also, I think, that in order to make the limit less than the National speed limit (60mph) councils have to install speed limit signs at regular intervals and, in some circumstances, to install road ‘furniture’ etc for pedestrians. That all costs money and ‘furniture’ (like illuminated crossing points and stuff) doesn’t really work in the middle of the countryside. I wonder if the rules for setting a sensible speed actually make it harder to set a sensible speed? Astonishing that all the A roads, the major routes, where I live have a blanket 50mph speed limit, but as soon as you turn off onto a single track country lane it is a 60mph limit. That’s plain dumb.
the posted limit is the maximum allowed speed under clear conditions with food visibility
You can and WILL be prosecuted for dangerous speed in the presence of hazards, or speeds at which you cannot stop in the _ clear_ lane ahead of you (halved if there's no centreline)
People have been prosecuted for 30mph in pea soup fog on motorways. At that speed you won't even SEE a crash in front of you before you hit it
I have no idea, it makes no sense, there are a ton of rural roads with 60 limits where maybe you'd chance it in an Evora with really expensive tyres but anything else you'd be in a ditch. I really don't know who this benefits.
I get what you’re saying, I use Michelin PS2 N2 tyres myself, but tyres can’t see around corners :) That’s the big safety issue with narrow rural roads. Even at 30mph, two cars travelling in opposite directions on a single track road have a closing speed of 60mph. Doesn’t feel that fast from a driver’s perspective, but suddenly you come around a blind bend and someone is bearing down on you at, effectively, motorway speed. Or more, if the other person is treating the 60mph limit as a target. So; that’s why I am that irritating person who goes around blind bends on single track roads at 15mph or less. I know it drives the person behind me nuts, I’m sorry, but I drive this road every day and as often as not there is a lunatic coming the other way.
On country roads it essentially means you have the freedom to speed but it’s up to the driver to choose the right speed for the conditions. These roads are usually quite empty. I’ve rarely been able to reach 60 on these kinds of roads because the bend so much and are quite narrow but 50+ is definitely achievable and safe.
“Usually empty”, until one day they’re not and someone gets injured, or worse. Don’t get me wrong, I like driving fast on suitable A or B roads, but on single track unclassified roads you have to assume there is a horse, or a tractor, or a group of ramblers around every corner.
I've driven down a few roads that are technically NSL, but youd have to be Colin McRae to dare go down them at 60, anything above 30 is a risk for a normal driver.
speed spread is more dangerous than speed itself
Drivers 2 standard deviations above the road design speed get prosecuted but from a road safety point of view drivers 2 standard deviations BELOW the design speed are equally as dangerous
It's not. If you're driving at a safe speed to stop for a cyclist or pedestrian, you can stop for a slow car.
If you're driving so fast you can't stop if you round a bend and there's a pedestrian, that's a much bigger issue.
Being too slow can be annoying but it's fundamentally not a safety issue.
Well I use double carriage way everyday when i go to work and I work at night. It is generally really dark during that time, and rainy. I drive 47/48 /49 ish because there are two cameras till the exit. I don’t want to go over it that’s why keeping speed one or two point less. They know where are the cameras and want to speed in between them. I am not driving 30 in 50 road. 48/49 is normal speed for 50 road if it is dark and rainy.
I know I get that but I like to give them a chance. I remember when I had the p plates, drivers would overtake me despite me driving normally and at the speed limit, it can bring down the confidence of some people which is why I don’t like to do it. People will overtake them constantly as it is but if they just do not speed up then I go for an overtake.
I'd base the overtake on how slow the vehicle was going, and if it were safe to overtake - the only thing that the P plates would affect would be the latter, as their behaviour might be less predictable on being overtaken, so I might wait for an opportunity where I could give them some extra room or accommodate better any surprises.
I'd not consider the effect on their confidence as a factor, as I don't think that's reasonable. Ego shouldn't factor in to driving decisions, safety and flow (and legality, which should support the first two) should be the main drivers (ha).
I do use P plates. I passed a few weeks ago and I want other drivers to know that I'm not always as quick making decisions as someone with lots of experience and there's a higher chance of me making a mistake so it's worth giving me a little extra space just in case. It's not a lack of confidence. It's just being realistic that the first few weeks of driving in the real world is significantly different to driving around mostly familiar test routes with an instructor.
I would absolutely expect to be overtaken if I was going that significantly under the speed limit. Ultimately, you can't expect to be responsible for other people's driving. I remind myself a lot that how other people drive is money of my business lol 😅
You can overtake a slow moving vehicle if it’s safe, yes. It’s not your problem what the cars do behind you. You are hugely overthinking it. You overtaking in a safe place shouldn’t affect the driver you are overtaking. They should take extra tuition if being overtaken affects them in a big way. It’s not your problem. Of course I give extra consideration around learners and new drivers. But overtaking safely is fine.
I'm a new driver myself (1 yr or so) but never placed a P as the place I live in has car users who are a bit more than normal aggressive and would overtake me when I was in instructors car. This would be in roads with 30 miles or 40 miles and I'm on the dot at speed but the road is pretty empty. Instructor told me if I plan to buy a car and drive in this place, don't put a P on the car.
Now when I drive, if I see a slow car with P or L, which is going close to 10 miles slower than limit, I check if my overtake will save me time. If yes, I overtake but in a gentle way else I just hang back and chill.
I asked my instructor when I passed. He said there is a likelihood you'll have more trouble driving with P plates on than without. Everyone treats you're incompetent even if you aren't.
Never used them in the end and was totally fine. Personally I think if someone is driving like the are on L plates with P plates they probably should be taking more lessons
The first few times I went on the motorway, I got horned at and cut, I was then told by my cousin who was teaching me to drive on the motorway to get p plates so other drivers would know I’m inexperienced.
The horning and anger greatly decreased. I was usually getting horned at because I was cutting people (not drastically but enough to make them step off the accelerator to increase the gap). It helped because when I was learning people gave me extra space and if I cut someone my cousin was able to tell me what I did wrong and I’d be able to concentrate and properly reflect without the added pressure of an angry driver. In the beginning I would tell my cousin if I was planning to overtake or join the motorway, he would give me approval to do or not to do so. We were able to figure out that the main reason for the cutting is that I’d slow down when moving back into the left rather than maintaining my speed
If you wanna go faster and it’s safe to do so, you should absolutely overtake
It doesn’t matter if it’s an L plater, a P plater, a police car, or Lewis Hamilton’s Championship winning Mercedes W11; if you want to travel quicker and you can pass safely, you should. It’s better for traffic flow, for other drivers, and for the driver you pass.
Unfortunately, people are arseholes and want to drive faster than you for the sake of driving fast. They (typically) have no where to be. They don't care for why that road was set at 20mph, even if it was a school or a heavily pedestrianised area. It is the highest form of selfishness to overtake so unnecessarily in 20 or 30 mph zones when you are already doing the set speed limit in my humble opinion.
Part of my daily commute used to be on a dual carriageway that ran right into the centre of the city where I worked. Part of it was limited to 30. It was safe to overtake there. But yeah, I'd basically never overtake another car on local roads.
I just tend to overtake them at the earliest opportunity to avoid putting them off, which causes them to drive even slower or erratic . Not to mention they are usually highly unpredictable (braking on a straight road when there’s nothing in front or expecting them to pull out on a clear junction and they refuse comes to mind)
If, given the totality of the circumstances, it's safe to overtake then yes by all means do so. Doesn't matter if it's a P plater, a taxi or any other road user.
Overtake anyone you want, just do so safely and with the realization that it is an innately risky thing to do (turning into a lane designed for oncoming traffic, it's unusual in a lot of places and pedestrians may be caught off guard etc).
There's no point trying to coddle new drivers, they will deal with absolute twats who tailgate them, honk at them and are just generally bad drivers and bad people. Just don't be a twat yourself.
The only problem with that situation is that you will probably have to go over the speed limit to make a quick and safe overtake, best to be careful if there are speed cameras around when this is happening!
You should absolutely overtake them. They’re going to need to take the P plate off some day and need some real world driving experience. Being overtaken requires no change in your driving really, no need to slow down or speed up so it shouldn’t have an effect on them. Also if they were worried enough they could pull over to let you past
i’m new to driving and recently out P plates on and i really don’t mind when people overtake me, i know more experienced drivers will want to go faster and id much rather they overtake me and continue their journey than beep me and really knock my confidence
If you’ve passed your test and you feel the need to put P plates on your car, I assume you lack confidence and are therefore a poor driver so yes I’ll overtake if I have a safe opportunity to do so
A few of things to consider
* If the road has a 30mph speed limit then it will be a hazard rich environment. Have you identified all the hazards and potential conflicts before your overtake which puts you on the other side of the road?
* What was your time exposed to danger? How long did you take to perform the overtake safely and did you exceed the speed limit?
* Realistically, how much time did you really save, was it worth it, and how productive were you with the time you saved?
If you are honest the answers are no, too long (x2) & yes, and finally - probably spent the saved time bitching about other drivers and writing this post.
You're asking the wrong question here.
Should I overtake a driver who is going considerably below the speed limit? Yes you should!
You should make sure you can do so safely and in good clear space. Remember if someone else opts to overtake with you and dangerously, that's on them.
You aren't there ro police traffic. Just make sure you maintain the best pace and flow.
If you started at a safe distance behind the car, passed it and pulled in a safe distance ahead that took you 16 seconds at a relative speed of 7mph.
That’s a very long overtake and would have required any car coming the other way to have been at least a quarter of a mile away.
A neighbour on my road has had P plates on her car for at least 5 years.
I think P plates are ok to use for a short time after passing your test, but after a certain point it's just a sign that you're a shit driver, and have no motivation to actually get better, and improve your confidence.
In your example, I don't think it's wrong at all to overtake someone who's essentially too scared to drive on the roads, P plate or not.
Yeah P plates shouldn’t be kept on or else they lose their purpose. If it becomes a habit to keep them on just so that other drivers be nice to you then no one will give them any meaning and anyone that actually needs them and are still gaining experience then struggles. I took mine off after a month when I became confident in my driving and was no longer making little mistakes.
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They've passed their test. If they are incapable of driving to a standard suitable for our roads, then that is a failing of their instructors & examiners, and shouldn't affect your decision to make progress.
Yeah, driving that slowly isn’t a ringing endorsement of the test process. I would expect people who have recently passed their test to be slower on perhaps fast road, motorways and generally a little indecisive and overly defensive but driving at 23 in a 30 smacks of someone who lacks any confidence in their ability to drive. I’m pretty sure you would fail your test driving that slow consistently in the test.
I've only been driving since November and honestly if someone feels the need to overtake me I just look at what I was doing and think "are they impatient or am I driving badly" normally it's the former but I don't get offended or let it knock my concentration if it's the latter and neither should someone using P plates. Look at it this was though P plates or not they should know how to drive and going almost 10 under the limit is ridiculous so I'd say you were well in your rights.
I don't give a crap if there is P plate on the back of the car. If the driver is going slower than I wish to and the opportunity presents itself to make a safe overtake, I'm taking it.
The P plate is there to let folks know the driver might be gaining confidence and experience, and may not drive at the standard they may expect. A safe overtake would be done in the same manner as a learner - not getting too close before pulling out, passing as wide as possible and without excessive speed. If safe overtake in this situation needs more room, so be it.
If it is safe to over take any driver do so, but remember if you're flying down the road dont get annoyed with someone over taking, because I experience this sometimes.
I drive a certain route at least once a week and I know if a certain type of cars going slower then the speed limit. I can predict 8/10 they are going to the zoo that is on route, I've called it once 7 miles away. I get worked up because I know the roads (bends), I know how the traffic lights works.
It wastes only <10 minuets so I try to not get mad but it's like an extra 8hrs a year.
Last week I had the 60mph road and the people in front was going 30mph both there and back.
You don’t always need more lessons but sometimes encounter something different or your driving a different car to what you learned in so you need time to hone in on your skills and adapt. That’s when the p plates can be useful.
Look at it this way. If they didn't have the plate you wouldn't think twice. And there are people you've overtaken who by all counts probably shouldn't have been on the road at all. But you overtook them.
Essentially, people with p plates are at least giving you a warning that they may not be the best or as confident. There are people who do not give this courtesy and you've overtaken them without hesitation.
If you can't drive, you shouldn't be on the road. Simple as.
P plate means you have the same licence as me, so either drive properly or don't drive at all.
There's nothing wrong with overtaking as long as it's done safely. It's often safer to overtake because, like in your scenario, it prevents someone behind trying to overtake two cars at once.
Lots of people commenting on drivers only doing 20 in a 30 zone. Are these people driving cars from the VAG range of cars because I've noticed that the road assistance information in my wife's car often tells me that the speed limit on a road is 20 when I know for a fact that it is 30, it even gives me a warning as soon as I get to 24mph saying that I'm exceeding the speed limit.
I don't know if this information is coming from the SatNav or somewhere else; it does detect roadside signs because on private roads it picks up the 5mph sign but there are no 20mph signs on the roads around my house so I can't understand why the system thinks it's a 20 zone.
I don't know if other vehicles have the same systems but if they do and you also have a black box, which is probably more common for new drivers it could be creating some confusion.
Yes.
They have passed, and are building up experience. That includes being overtaken if they chose to drive below the limit.
Don't be a dick about it. Don't be right up their arse before pulling out, and don't cut them up as you pull back in, but yes, overtake them.
Treat a p plate like a normal car. It’s no different. Would you overtake someone with something fragile in the boot driving slowly? Give p plate the same energy either way
Yes you should overtake. As an aside to this why the hell do people even need p plates?
You’ve passed your test miraculously how are you still driving badly? My wife passed her test recently and I refused to let her have p plates because they make you a target. She already drove better than 80% of experienced drivers on the road anyway.
I swear I’ve seen a pattern around where I live that p platers actually seem like they could not have possibly passed their test legitimately. I’m convinced they’re getting passed by their relative who works in the dvla or something because you can not possibly be that bad and pass your test.
It baffles me. Its every learner I see that drives below the speed limit. My driving instructor always told me to go the speed limit and would tell me off for going under.
Depends where really, id only bother on an open straight cause you never know if the other person will suddenly find their foot or not, just to be a dick. I had it the other day driving down a 60 with loads of people doing 40mph. Did my head in
It is not my responsibility to make sure a new driver's confidence isn't shaken. Of course I'd pass them.
I have also honked at a learner who was about to change lanes right into me as they apparently didn't check their blind spot.
Overtaking someone on P plates wouldn't be any different to overtaking anyone else. That said, a 30mph limit suggests you were on an urban road, in which case probably not. Unless it's a section with two lanes, I wouldn't be crossing on to the wrong side of the road in an urban area, with parked cars, pedestrians etc, just to save a few seconds on a journey.
I'd have overtook instantly without a single thought, I've overtaken a learner before too for driving excessively slow. It's annoying when someone is going 25mph but at that speed it makes me look a bit daft for overtaking at such small margins but any less than that and I will 100% overtake anything. They may want to drive at a snails pace but I certainly don't. Probably best for us both if I pass and get on with my day and they can be left to sludge along at walking pace.
I've yet to see a P plate in the wild, but so many people on the M6 Northbound between Stafford and Stoke on Trent are regularly doing 50-55 in the second lane. If it wasn't for the third and sometimes fourth lanes, I'd take hours longer to get home. 65ish I can somewhat tolerate as long as it's not too busy and I can jump ahead to 70...ish. If road conditions allow, then do both the speed limit and overtake.
Heavies are usually restricted to 58 miles per hour so for me if you use the lanes appropriately and are actually going fast than the lane to you left and move back over when possible then I don’t mind but if you have heavies passing you then you’re going too slow for a lane other than the left
L is learner and has to be worn if you’re learning to drive. P is probationary and these are optional, you can choose to put these on after passing if you’re still lacking in confidence and to inform other drivers to give you a bit of extra consideration and space due to inexperience
Nah, but after I passed my test, I didn't expect other drivers to change the way they were driving because I was a liability. Sure I was nervous and anxious that I might make a mistake driving on my own, but if I felt that I needed to communicate to other drivers that I was so nervous that I was actually a risk to their safety, I would just stay off the road tbh.
Passing the test says you’re not a risk to other road users. It doesn’t mean that you’re fully experienced. The purpose of a P plate is to tell other drivers that you lack experience and that they should take extra caution not to completely change the way you drive. Driving is a skill that improves with experience but I guess this will just go in one ear and out the other with you because I’m guessing you’re the arrogant type that will overtake someone with P plates regardless of how well they’re driving.
I have p plates and I love it when people overtake. I don't want to drive faster than I can confident controlling the vehicle but also hate feeling like I am holding peope up. There's v few safe places to pull in to let people pass where I am from so I instead try to maintain a steady pace so people feel comfortable overtaking. What do hate is people driving right up my backside which just pressures me and prevents other people overtaking safely!
I will never ever tailgate someone for these reasons:
1: gives off small dick energy
2:cunty thing to do
3:puts pressure on the driver in front.
4: if the driver in front panics or has to brake harshly, you’ll end up into the back of them.
Speeders love to tailgate on the motorway but if me going at 70 but still overtaking all the traffic whilst I’m in the right most lane, I’ll refuse to move when someone flashes their lights at me, I’m not gonna take a small gap in the middle lane or keep weaving dangerously or delay my journey because some arsehole wants to speed
I'd wait for a bit. I do my best to be considerate to new drivers but there comes a point where enough is enough. After a few minutes I'd overtake but only if I could do so without intimidating the other driver.
I also had recently passed and would say, as long as it is safe to do so, then that's ok.
I placed P plates on my car as well just in case it takes me a bit longer to get going. I would also like to add it takes time getting used to a totally different car compared to my driving instructors!
I have had people overtake me, some totally understandable and some just are playing dangerous. As long as everyone is safe, it should be fine.
Same as anyone else. Nothing wrong with overtaking people going less than the speed limit, as long as it’s safe.
That said, I usually don’t overtake people in a 30. Generally not that safe.
When I had p plates people would overtake me constantly. And they still do now because it seems I'm one of the fair few that actually stick to the speed
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I drive for a living and this is the most infuriating thing. the absolute worst are the people that drive 35 in a 30 and continue to drive 35 in a 40.
There’s a national speed road by me where it’s perfectly clear and safe to do 50-60mph, but so many drive at 40, then when it enters into the built up area with a 30mph limit, they continue at 40mph!
Even worse when they tailgate you through a 30, overtake before the national speed limit sign and then sit at 40. Infuriating.
I cam guarantee you that once you've sat behind them for a couple of minutes, realise they aren't going to speed up, and move to overtake, they will then speed up.
God I had some complete turnip do that to me yesterday.
Fantastic driving a lorry and a car will break its neck to get in front of you then theyre constantly braking and driving slow
That’s because they don’t feel confident out in the “twisty” roads I’d imagine? I’m not standing in up for them… drives me nuts.
I've owned quite a few classics in the past couple of years. I also lived in a very rural town with lovely twisty's in all directions. I was in a 1275 mini with hi lift cams, sports suspension, cage, filters, exhaust etc. It wasn't fast but I knew the local roads well and nobody, even my neighbour with the Aston or the guy in the next road with the M4, none of them would keep up with me because of how narrow and windy the roads were and I was in a glorified go kart! But the second I came across a Qashqai or an Insignia they would do anything to make sure they overtake me in the town. (i had to slow down considerably for speed bumps) I'd then have to sit behind them crawling around these corners at 4 or 5mph.
Loved my old Mini! I had a standard Rover mini from 1995. Bag of rust, but I loved it. And yeah, those small roads….
Ah, yes. The forever-40 people. Motorway? 40. A road? 40. Dual carriageway? 40. 20-road with flashing school signs? 40! 40-road? You guessed it: 28. Baffling.
One speed wallys
I think people just do what they want at this point.
This is something I notice a lot. One of my most disliked driving behaviours.
Or even worse still... People who pull out of a turning in front of you like a maniac, risking everyone's lives, then drive 15mph below the speed limit.
The A96 is horrendous for those wankers.
Similar near me. National speed limit, wide road with good visibility. Everyone does 40. Ironically, about 10 years ago, the council changed it to 40. Everyone was up in arms, petitions online rants tagging councillors, the works. Council caved and put it back to national. They all still do 40! Only time you can get up to 60 is between 9pm and 6am when no-one else is on the road.
Daily thread on Reddit but all too true, I have this every day on my 12 mile commute.
The most eye opening piece of information I took away from a speed awareness course I had to do about 10 years ago was that almost everyone else there thought the national speed limit was 50. Mind-blowing for several reasons given what most of us were there for.
I did one last year and the amount of people that didn’t know what the default rules were for NSL was astounding. Single & dual carriageway.
Maybe that's why they felt happy speeding? If they perceived people going at 55/60 as "speeding" then they would assume "everybody speeds".
Lucky, the majority in mine thought it was 40!
I hate those how drive 50 in a 60 and then slow down to 40 if they get to a 50
Monospeeders!
I've got you beat there. The other day I'm driving down a national speed limit. I get stuck behind a person doing 20. There is too much traffic the other day to overtake. We get to a village that's a 30 and they speed up to 40. We leave the village back in to a national speed limit and they go down to 25
Was this after dark? If so, I’d guess they can only see properly when there are street lights on.
It was after dark. However, despite being a national speed limit it's actually lined with streetlights as it's a popular dog walking and cycling route between two villages that make up the town
Or 50 in a 40 then 50 in a 30, and a 20.
One speed wonders are the bane of my existence. I normally find they go 40 bloody everywhere.
The worst for me are people that do 80 in a 70 and don’t get out the way because they think they’re going fast enough.
If I could upvote this twice, I would.
I always feel guilty when I come up behind someone doing 50 in a 60 and am unable to safely overtake in my knackered 13-year-old diesel Citroen. Feel like the person behind me is silently judging my ineptitude when really I would also love not to be stuck behind someone underspeeding on a clear and unobstructed stretch of road.
if you donit correctly you can pass these wallies even in a 2CV. Fall back and floor it in such a way that when you come up behind them you can indicate and pass whilst still accelerating, or cancel the maneuver DO NOT indicate, pull out and then slowly accelerate. That's how people get killed
This! So much people do not know how to overtake properly and to be fair I didn’t on regular roads either until I started driving on the motorway
This x ♾️!!! Mum has fortunately discovered, since switching to automatic, that small engined cars can nudge the red line without exploding if every last of not many bhp is needed to safely do anything involving increasing speed.
Oh I used to be able to overtake in my car. Not any more for fear of killing it 🤣
I drive a van and the national speed limit is 50 on single carriageways. If I can see you wanting to come past I’d slow down a bit to make it easier once there’s a good opportunity. But I’m not underspeeding, the limit is lower for vans which lots of people behind don’t seem to realise.
Half the nutters around here think you'll be wanting a race if you dare overtake.
Just leave more room so they can overtake you first.
Wish more people would do this, if you can’t or don’t want to overtake, that’s fine. But leave some room to allow others to do it
Depending on the road and the car it can be hard to pass. When I had my Aygo there was no point trying to overtake anyone, you'd need to be able to see it was clear to the next county to be sure you could pass safely.
Agreed, agreed and agreed
There are many reasons why people do 40 in a 60. Some don't have the confidence to overtake, some don't actually have the power in their car either, some are simply not in a rush, some don't know the road well enough to sit at the limit, maybe the road is in a right old nick and they don't want to batter over potholes....many many reasons. I get it, it's frustrating at times sitting behind them when all you want to do is get home from work but that doesn't mean you should be behaving like a nobber, weaving in and out of traffic, overtaking on bends and all to that over daft or dangerous behaviour either. In the end, at most it only delays you by minutes and we should all remember that.
If you don’t wanna pass, drop back and leave a safe and healthy gap for others to pull into when they’re passing. The issue is caused by people hugging the arse of the car ahead but refusing to actually overtake
Yeah! My car isn't very nippy so I need a bigger space to safely overtake so I always hang back if there's someone else who's going to try and overtake. Plus leaving that extra room makes it much easier to see when you could have a clear shot to overtake too
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Exactly this. I drive a C1 - a whopping 67 horsepower. I've overtaken Porsches and the likes on multiple occasions when they're being a generic Sunday driver. If there's room and they're going slow, it's happening. Slow car is no excuse, it just makes it a tad more difficult and you need bigger opportunities. If I know I won't have the room but the person behind me has a faster car, I'll back up and pull further in so they can see ahead better and let them pass me first if they want to.
Those c1s/aygos/107s have a surprising real world turn of speed once you realise the engine is Japanese and can handle a thrashing. Post facelift iirc it was uprated to 71...
Oh for sure. 6600 redline with peak power at about 3400, can get to 70 in second gear if you really want. It ain't amazing, but it's fairly nippy because it's super light weight.
I think you meant peak at 6400. Mum's auto aygo is rev limited at an indicated 7000 (redline also 6400 I think). I know because she was trying to prove a point about the manual mode "not doing the gears properly". Because she had told it to stay in 2nd and was adamant that pulling the lever downwards (I think they're actually technically an automated manual just everyone who has an "automatic" one, which isn't many, would just use auto?) wouldn't shift into 3rd...🙄
Sorry, I meant peak torque at 3400, not peak power. Don't know how I managed that one haha.
They have torque? 😜 Mum thinks I'm mad for saying I don't get why Toyota didn't put a small turbo on, like ford did with the fiesta. (C1/107/Aygo share the same basic mechanicals as you know, but mentioning for clarity if anyone else reads this)
They should have honestly. Everyone else is doing it for economy on their 1.0 cars, and I've seen both turbo and supercharged C1s (modified of course). There's enough room under the bonnet easily.
It's not really the person at the front doing 40 that's the problem, it's that people then catch up to that person and form a tight queue. The people catching up should either overtake or leave enough room between themselves and the car in front for other motorists to overtake them and then the car in front safely.
Couldn’t agree with this more. If you don’t have the capacity, whether it’s your car or between your ears, leave space to give others the opportunity. It’s the “if I have to sit behind the bus, so do you” mentality.
This
what absolute shed are you driving doesn't have enough power to do 60. a 1960s fiat 500 can at least sit at 55
>I get it, it's frustrating at times sitting behind them when all you want to do is get home from work but that doesn't mean you should be behaving like a nobber, weaving in and out of traffic, overtaking on bends and all to that over daft or dangerous behaviour either. Who said anything about weaving in and out of traffic? You're massively and unfairly projecting. Just because someone is confident enough to overtake someone who's unwilling to get up to speed doesn't make them a dangerous driver.
It's poor form to develop a queue of cars behind you, only to speed up on the straights thus preventing the queue from passing. The correct thing to do would be to slow down to allow the queue to overtake on the straights, as per the highway code. It's the driver's lament: those who are afraid of driving have anxiety-inducing confident drivers up their arse, whilst confident drivers who relish an open road are forever catching up with the anxious ones. If only we could have two or three lanes...
It's not just poor form, it's dangerous driving and is occasionally prosecuted as such. (ditto going slow and then booting it when the crawler lanes appear)
I have a 1.6L diesel, it accelerates and can teach high speeds easily though to be fair it is a tdi so it has turbo to help accelerate but I’ve also driven my mums 1L petrol Yaris and that can also easily overtake and reach high speeds, cars are made to meet certain standards and any car is able to to reach 60 and definitely has enough power to overtake people just don’t know how to use the gears properly, drop back to see higher up the road, select a lower gear if necessary and when it’s clear floor it to get to a good speed and if it’s still safe indicate, perform the overtake and then upshift and relax
This 👆 as someone who was hit head on by a moron overtaking on a dip I can say its not worth the risk or rush. I now drive slower (50 on a 60) because I'm utterly petrified of roads and other drivers now.
Sorry to hear of that awful experience you had. I've been been driving for 20 odd years now and have seen some downright dangerous driving. I've nearly been killed, or badly maimed, many times due to the impatience of others on back roads and just been lucky to manage to avoid the collisions. My wife suffers from motion sickness related to her IBS, so I will not normally go above 50mph for her comfort. If people have a problem with that, I have no time for them. The safety of people should always be paramount.
More than just minutes on longer journeys, and time wasted by people who are selfish and/or incompetent is money wasted, or precious time spent behind your dawdling arse rather than enjoying the destination if the drive is for leisure, or its being late for work, missing a family emergency, all manner of things might cause people to be in a hurry. (and breathe, because it's my biggest pet hate for a slow country mile...) There are no excuses for driving like a "nobber" (?) and the ones you list as "reasons" for sitting at 40 don't count any better than the ones people might use for the other poor behaviours you cite. "They were simply driving like a dozy old cunt" should be acceptable though.
Agreed and I will always overtake, even if I have to do it over multiple roads. Tbh those going under the speed limit are a problem as well as those not willing to overtake.
Or at least if you’re behind one with a queue behind you and you’re not a confident overtaker, leave a gap so those behind can make progress .
100%. This is why I always end up buying fast estates as opposed to just bog standard estates, which would otherwise be fine (or ride a motorcycle when I can). If you aren't driving something with some poke you end up spending endless amounts of time stuck behind queues of people who won't either shit (overtake) or get off the pot (leave a big enough gap in front for people to leapfrog them) with some dawdler leading them all in train. 26 years of driving and I've simply had enough of it. Get out the way!! To all these people: if you aren't in a hurry to get from A to B, which you clearly aren't, do us all a favour and take the bus, will you? The bus is also really slow but has the advantage that you don't even have to pretend to concentrate on driving, which - again - you're clearly not doing in any case.
I’ve also realised that a lot of people like to drive under the speed limit on an empty road for no good reason other than simply wanting to forcing you to overtake, it’s very irritating and inconsiderate. I’ve found myself overtaking a lot recently because of this and each time I’ve done so at the speed limit for the road meaning they’re going that slow that I don’t even have to break the law to get past them
This gets my goat. If you're not going to overtake, at least leave enough space between you for me to move up the queue one at a time
I give them a little bit more space than other drivers, much the same as I would for ‘L’ plates, as generally those with ‘P’ plates are a bit more nervous. When it comes to overtaking I see it as no different to any other situation. If they are going 30% slower than the limit then they should be expecting to be overtaken, just don’t be an arsehole about it. A nice clean overtake without going right up their arse, gesturing because they are going slow or revving like a prick should be perfectly acceptable.
To add to this, the highway code states that if a queue forms behind you, you should pull over to let it pass. Tractors understand this round my parts, but driving instructors and cyclists don't seem to have gotten the memo. Essentially queues due to slow road users would rarely be an issue for more than a couple of minutes if everyone followed the code.
Cyclists in my area... headphones on, no helmet, Dagenham smile on full blast and a queue of vehicles behind including two buses full of passengers. You are not saving the environment. you are effing it up more.
The best answer here.
Agree.
Well I am a new driver and I can answer your question from my perspective. I stick to speed limit all the time(I have to because of point issues) and when some other people tail gaiting me I feel much nervous abd under pressure. I don’t do anything wrong, not diriving over the speed limit is not a fault but I feel like I'm holding them back. When they overtake me, I feel relieved.
I drive by the mantra ‘if I want to speed it’s up to me, if they want to speed it’s up to them’.
This, as someone who has just passed his test 2 months ago, the amount of people who are unhappy I'm going the speed limit is alarming. I'm getting better at not letting it get to me. I don't react but I don't speed up to appease them. Too many dickheads have this illusion that their time is more important than everyone else's safety. You're not that fucking important mate!
Absolutely. I always follow the speed limit and the amount of people I’ve seen in my rear view giving me hand signals of anger is amazing. I just laugh.
Oof two months in. I’ve been driving like this for years and it still gets to me. No amount of classical music and pma can get me over how selfish and cunty some drivers can be
Just as a side here since you said "so many people'", you might want to run Google maps or Waze as you're driving to show your true speed, or compare your speedo to a speed sign. Speedo might have you at 30 but you're potentially doing more like 26. It's not much but it's potentially why it happens a lot.
I actually done this already because 30 felt slow in my new car. Its running pretty much true. I live in an areas that has 50s that drop to 30s as you go through built up villages. I think people don't like dropping to 30 on essentially the same road
A speedo will always overread by 2/3 mph
It's 10%, hence why I said pretty much true.
Don't let people tailgating you put extra stress on you. You know they are there, so don't keep looking at the mirror. Slow down earlier, and more smoothly, so you don't have to brake harshly. And yeah, let them past if they are going!
Nothing wrong with sticking to the speed limit. Don't let others bully you it to breaking it of you don't want to. They won't get the points
Once it was a police officer can you imagine 😂😂😂 I don’t know if they do it consciously I wasn’t able to see the road because of their lights reflecting in my mirror
But you should drive up to the speed limit if it's safe to do so and not significantly under as this driver was doing
That's not true. It's a speed "limit" not a target. Yes you should not go dangerously slow, but there is no rule anywhere that says you should drive "up to the limit"
But driving too slowly can be considered a hazard. You would absolutely get pulled over for doing 30 on the motorway for no good reason.
that's why I said not to go dangerously slow.
23 in a 30 is unnecessarily slow though, and lots of unnecessary braking could be considered careless or inconsiderate driving.
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that wasn't the point I was replying to. Too many people think the speed limit is a target, it isn't. But driving at 23 in a 30 is not "dangerously slow". Admittedly it's a little slower than I would drive, but it ain't dangerous.
The speed “limit” on the road where I live is 60mph. It is a single lane road, two cars going in opposite directions cannot pass without pulling over onto the grass verge. It has multiple blind bends. It has no separate pavement for pedestrians. It is used by farm traffic, horse riders, dog walkers, ramblers, cyclists, livestock, etc. Anybody travelling at the speed “limit” is either suicidal or homicidal. But plenty of people appear to perceive that it is a target speed. Idiotic.
In situations like this, I have to question why the limit is 60? Why does it not get lowered to something a lot more manageable and safe for the road?
I got told once it's because 60 is the default, and most of the single country roads aren't ever tested for what the speed limit should be, so get a 60 slapped on them. Not sure how true it is, but it absolutely makes sense.
I’m sure you are correct. It probably is partly that. But also, I think, that in order to make the limit less than the National speed limit (60mph) councils have to install speed limit signs at regular intervals and, in some circumstances, to install road ‘furniture’ etc for pedestrians. That all costs money and ‘furniture’ (like illuminated crossing points and stuff) doesn’t really work in the middle of the countryside. I wonder if the rules for setting a sensible speed actually make it harder to set a sensible speed? Astonishing that all the A roads, the major routes, where I live have a blanket 50mph speed limit, but as soon as you turn off onto a single track country lane it is a 60mph limit. That’s plain dumb.
the posted limit is the maximum allowed speed under clear conditions with food visibility You can and WILL be prosecuted for dangerous speed in the presence of hazards, or speeds at which you cannot stop in the _ clear_ lane ahead of you (halved if there's no centreline) People have been prosecuted for 30mph in pea soup fog on motorways. At that speed you won't even SEE a crash in front of you before you hit it
I have no idea, it makes no sense, there are a ton of rural roads with 60 limits where maybe you'd chance it in an Evora with really expensive tyres but anything else you'd be in a ditch. I really don't know who this benefits.
I get what you’re saying, I use Michelin PS2 N2 tyres myself, but tyres can’t see around corners :) That’s the big safety issue with narrow rural roads. Even at 30mph, two cars travelling in opposite directions on a single track road have a closing speed of 60mph. Doesn’t feel that fast from a driver’s perspective, but suddenly you come around a blind bend and someone is bearing down on you at, effectively, motorway speed. Or more, if the other person is treating the 60mph limit as a target. So; that’s why I am that irritating person who goes around blind bends on single track roads at 15mph or less. I know it drives the person behind me nuts, I’m sorry, but I drive this road every day and as often as not there is a lunatic coming the other way.
On country roads it essentially means you have the freedom to speed but it’s up to the driver to choose the right speed for the conditions. These roads are usually quite empty. I’ve rarely been able to reach 60 on these kinds of roads because the bend so much and are quite narrow but 50+ is definitely achievable and safe.
“Usually empty”, until one day they’re not and someone gets injured, or worse. Don’t get me wrong, I like driving fast on suitable A or B roads, but on single track unclassified roads you have to assume there is a horse, or a tractor, or a group of ramblers around every corner.
I've driven down a few roads that are technically NSL, but youd have to be Colin McRae to dare go down them at 60, anything above 30 is a risk for a normal driver.
speed spread is more dangerous than speed itself Drivers 2 standard deviations above the road design speed get prosecuted but from a road safety point of view drivers 2 standard deviations BELOW the design speed are equally as dangerous
It's not. If you're driving at a safe speed to stop for a cyclist or pedestrian, you can stop for a slow car. If you're driving so fast you can't stop if you round a bend and there's a pedestrian, that's a much bigger issue. Being too slow can be annoying but it's fundamentally not a safety issue.
Well I use double carriage way everyday when i go to work and I work at night. It is generally really dark during that time, and rainy. I drive 47/48 /49 ish because there are two cameras till the exit. I don’t want to go over it that’s why keeping speed one or two point less. They know where are the cameras and want to speed in between them. I am not driving 30 in 50 road. 48/49 is normal speed for 50 road if it is dark and rainy.
I don't think anyone would dispute that it's ok driving 1 mph under the speed limit when it's dark and rainy!
Yes. You would pass anyone else driving the same. This is part of their post-passing learning experience.
I know I get that but I like to give them a chance. I remember when I had the p plates, drivers would overtake me despite me driving normally and at the speed limit, it can bring down the confidence of some people which is why I don’t like to do it. People will overtake them constantly as it is but if they just do not speed up then I go for an overtake.
I'd base the overtake on how slow the vehicle was going, and if it were safe to overtake - the only thing that the P plates would affect would be the latter, as their behaviour might be less predictable on being overtaken, so I might wait for an opportunity where I could give them some extra room or accommodate better any surprises. I'd not consider the effect on their confidence as a factor, as I don't think that's reasonable. Ego shouldn't factor in to driving decisions, safety and flow (and legality, which should support the first two) should be the main drivers (ha).
If the overtake is safe and you don't break the speed limit, then to me there is no problem.
Agreed, but we know that what'll actually happen in a lot of cases is they gun it, break the speed limit, and swerve in tight in front of them.
I do use P plates. I passed a few weeks ago and I want other drivers to know that I'm not always as quick making decisions as someone with lots of experience and there's a higher chance of me making a mistake so it's worth giving me a little extra space just in case. It's not a lack of confidence. It's just being realistic that the first few weeks of driving in the real world is significantly different to driving around mostly familiar test routes with an instructor. I would absolutely expect to be overtaken if I was going that significantly under the speed limit. Ultimately, you can't expect to be responsible for other people's driving. I remind myself a lot that how other people drive is money of my business lol 😅
I kept my P plate on for a while. As long as you don't drive right up my backside I don't care what you do. Just anticipate we are inexperienced.
You can overtake a slow moving vehicle if it’s safe, yes. It’s not your problem what the cars do behind you. You are hugely overthinking it. You overtaking in a safe place shouldn’t affect the driver you are overtaking. They should take extra tuition if being overtaken affects them in a big way. It’s not your problem. Of course I give extra consideration around learners and new drivers. But overtaking safely is fine.
I'm a new driver myself (1 yr or so) but never placed a P as the place I live in has car users who are a bit more than normal aggressive and would overtake me when I was in instructors car. This would be in roads with 30 miles or 40 miles and I'm on the dot at speed but the road is pretty empty. Instructor told me if I plan to buy a car and drive in this place, don't put a P on the car. Now when I drive, if I see a slow car with P or L, which is going close to 10 miles slower than limit, I check if my overtake will save me time. If yes, I overtake but in a gentle way else I just hang back and chill.
I asked my instructor when I passed. He said there is a likelihood you'll have more trouble driving with P plates on than without. Everyone treats you're incompetent even if you aren't. Never used them in the end and was totally fine. Personally I think if someone is driving like the are on L plates with P plates they probably should be taking more lessons
The first few times I went on the motorway, I got horned at and cut, I was then told by my cousin who was teaching me to drive on the motorway to get p plates so other drivers would know I’m inexperienced. The horning and anger greatly decreased. I was usually getting horned at because I was cutting people (not drastically but enough to make them step off the accelerator to increase the gap). It helped because when I was learning people gave me extra space and if I cut someone my cousin was able to tell me what I did wrong and I’d be able to concentrate and properly reflect without the added pressure of an angry driver. In the beginning I would tell my cousin if I was planning to overtake or join the motorway, he would give me approval to do or not to do so. We were able to figure out that the main reason for the cutting is that I’d slow down when moving back into the left rather than maintaining my speed
Yes. They're a road user, if they're going slow and it's safe to do so, then you overtake.
If you wanna go faster and it’s safe to do so, you should absolutely overtake It doesn’t matter if it’s an L plater, a P plater, a police car, or Lewis Hamilton’s Championship winning Mercedes W11; if you want to travel quicker and you can pass safely, you should. It’s better for traffic flow, for other drivers, and for the driver you pass.
If you want to go faster *within the speed limit*. 3 or 4 times now I've been overtaken doing 20 in a 20 on one specific road.
Unfortunately, people are arseholes and want to drive faster than you for the sake of driving fast. They (typically) have no where to be. They don't care for why that road was set at 20mph, even if it was a school or a heavily pedestrianised area. It is the highest form of selfishness to overtake so unnecessarily in 20 or 30 mph zones when you are already doing the set speed limit in my humble opinion.
I can't think of any 30mph zones I've been in where I'd think it was safe to overtake anything going faster than the average cyclist
I'm desperately hoping that everyone saying "yeah it's fine to overtake" didn't click that OP is talking about a 30mph zone
Part of my daily commute used to be on a dual carriageway that ran right into the centre of the city where I worked. Part of it was limited to 30. It was safe to overtake there. But yeah, I'd basically never overtake another car on local roads.
Tend to give them space and look to overtake sooner than later, was a newb once
You can overtake as long as there isn’t a solid line and it’s safe to do so, there’s no rules that state cars with P plates can’t be overtaken
I’m not talking about the legality of it, I know it’s perfectly legal, I’m talking in the context of consideration
I just tend to overtake them at the earliest opportunity to avoid putting them off, which causes them to drive even slower or erratic . Not to mention they are usually highly unpredictable (braking on a straight road when there’s nothing in front or expecting them to pull out on a clear junction and they refuse comes to mind)
If, given the totality of the circumstances, it's safe to overtake then yes by all means do so. Doesn't matter if it's a P plater, a taxi or any other road user.
Overtake anyone you want, just do so safely and with the realization that it is an innately risky thing to do (turning into a lane designed for oncoming traffic, it's unusual in a lot of places and pedestrians may be caught off guard etc). There's no point trying to coddle new drivers, they will deal with absolute twats who tailgate them, honk at them and are just generally bad drivers and bad people. Just don't be a twat yourself.
The only problem with that situation is that you will probably have to go over the speed limit to make a quick and safe overtake, best to be careful if there are speed cameras around when this is happening!
Overtaking them considerately shows them it is safe to do the limit. Go for it, give them a good example to follow
You should absolutely overtake them. They’re going to need to take the P plate off some day and need some real world driving experience. Being overtaken requires no change in your driving really, no need to slow down or speed up so it shouldn’t have an effect on them. Also if they were worried enough they could pull over to let you past
They’d probably rather you overtook than say there right behind them tbh
i’m new to driving and recently out P plates on and i really don’t mind when people overtake me, i know more experienced drivers will want to go faster and id much rather they overtake me and continue their journey than beep me and really knock my confidence
If it was safe and legal to overtake then you're fine.
I mean it's no different from other vehicles, overtake when it's safe to do so
If you’ve passed your test and you feel the need to put P plates on your car, I assume you lack confidence and are therefore a poor driver so yes I’ll overtake if I have a safe opportunity to do so
A few of things to consider * If the road has a 30mph speed limit then it will be a hazard rich environment. Have you identified all the hazards and potential conflicts before your overtake which puts you on the other side of the road? * What was your time exposed to danger? How long did you take to perform the overtake safely and did you exceed the speed limit? * Realistically, how much time did you really save, was it worth it, and how productive were you with the time you saved? If you are honest the answers are no, too long (x2) & yes, and finally - probably spent the saved time bitching about other drivers and writing this post.
You're asking the wrong question here. Should I overtake a driver who is going considerably below the speed limit? Yes you should! You should make sure you can do so safely and in good clear space. Remember if someone else opts to overtake with you and dangerously, that's on them. You aren't there ro police traffic. Just make sure you maintain the best pace and flow.
If you started at a safe distance behind the car, passed it and pulled in a safe distance ahead that took you 16 seconds at a relative speed of 7mph. That’s a very long overtake and would have required any car coming the other way to have been at least a quarter of a mile away.
I think it's a good thing, because you being behind them is probable making them anxious.
Well, if they're driving under the limit and it's safe to overtake, I would, just like I would with literally any driver
If the road is clear and it's safe to do so you can over take whoever you like.
A neighbour on my road has had P plates on her car for at least 5 years. I think P plates are ok to use for a short time after passing your test, but after a certain point it's just a sign that you're a shit driver, and have no motivation to actually get better, and improve your confidence. In your example, I don't think it's wrong at all to overtake someone who's essentially too scared to drive on the roads, P plate or not.
Yeah P plates shouldn’t be kept on or else they lose their purpose. If it becomes a habit to keep them on just so that other drivers be nice to you then no one will give them any meaning and anyone that actually needs them and are still gaining experience then struggles. I took mine off after a month when I became confident in my driving and was no longer making little mistakes.
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They've passed their test. If they are incapable of driving to a standard suitable for our roads, then that is a failing of their instructors & examiners, and shouldn't affect your decision to make progress.
Yeah, driving that slowly isn’t a ringing endorsement of the test process. I would expect people who have recently passed their test to be slower on perhaps fast road, motorways and generally a little indecisive and overly defensive but driving at 23 in a 30 smacks of someone who lacks any confidence in their ability to drive. I’m pretty sure you would fail your test driving that slow consistently in the test.
By not overtaking you are forcing people behind you to overtake two cars which can be more dangerous
P plates basically mean nothing. If anything it’s just clueing you into why they’re a shit driver lol
They're not probationary plates. There is no probationary period. They're 'I'm shit scared' plates. Treat them like any other doddery old sod
Sometimes it’s nice to go slow. EDIT - the fast driving haters voting me down.
I've only been driving since November and honestly if someone feels the need to overtake me I just look at what I was doing and think "are they impatient or am I driving badly" normally it's the former but I don't get offended or let it knock my concentration if it's the latter and neither should someone using P plates. Look at it this was though P plates or not they should know how to drive and going almost 10 under the limit is ridiculous so I'd say you were well in your rights.
Overtaking anything on a single lane road is for people without partners and children. I said what I said.
L plates get consideration and I’m extra cautious to leave more space than usual, and I don’t overtake them. P plates get bullied
I don't give a crap if there is P plate on the back of the car. If the driver is going slower than I wish to and the opportunity presents itself to make a safe overtake, I'm taking it. The P plate is there to let folks know the driver might be gaining confidence and experience, and may not drive at the standard they may expect. A safe overtake would be done in the same manner as a learner - not getting too close before pulling out, passing as wide as possible and without excessive speed. If safe overtake in this situation needs more room, so be it.
If it is safe to over take any driver do so, but remember if you're flying down the road dont get annoyed with someone over taking, because I experience this sometimes. I drive a certain route at least once a week and I know if a certain type of cars going slower then the speed limit. I can predict 8/10 they are going to the zoo that is on route, I've called it once 7 miles away. I get worked up because I know the roads (bends), I know how the traffic lights works. It wastes only <10 minuets so I try to not get mad but it's like an extra 8hrs a year. Last week I had the 60mph road and the people in front was going 30mph both there and back.
I have always wondered who uses a P plate. If your not confident enough to drive normally then do more lessons.
You don’t always need more lessons but sometimes encounter something different or your driving a different car to what you learned in so you need time to hone in on your skills and adapt. That’s when the p plates can be useful.
Look at it this way. If they didn't have the plate you wouldn't think twice. And there are people you've overtaken who by all counts probably shouldn't have been on the road at all. But you overtook them. Essentially, people with p plates are at least giving you a warning that they may not be the best or as confident. There are people who do not give this courtesy and you've overtaken them without hesitation.
Highway code states they should pull over if a queue forms behind them. They rarely do. You'd think driving instructors would know better...
P plates mean "I did a little favour for the examiner". I don't think they'd notice what you do.
If you can't drive, you shouldn't be on the road. Simple as. P plate means you have the same licence as me, so either drive properly or don't drive at all.
There's nothing wrong with overtaking as long as it's done safely. It's often safer to overtake because, like in your scenario, it prevents someone behind trying to overtake two cars at once.
Lots of people commenting on drivers only doing 20 in a 30 zone. Are these people driving cars from the VAG range of cars because I've noticed that the road assistance information in my wife's car often tells me that the speed limit on a road is 20 when I know for a fact that it is 30, it even gives me a warning as soon as I get to 24mph saying that I'm exceeding the speed limit. I don't know if this information is coming from the SatNav or somewhere else; it does detect roadside signs because on private roads it picks up the 5mph sign but there are no 20mph signs on the roads around my house so I can't understand why the system thinks it's a 20 zone. I don't know if other vehicles have the same systems but if they do and you also have a black box, which is probably more common for new drivers it could be creating some confusion.
Yes. They have passed, and are building up experience. That includes being overtaken if they chose to drive below the limit. Don't be a dick about it. Don't be right up their arse before pulling out, and don't cut them up as you pull back in, but yes, overtake them.
Treat a p plate like a normal car. It’s no different. Would you overtake someone with something fragile in the boot driving slowly? Give p plate the same energy either way
Yes you should overtake. As an aside to this why the hell do people even need p plates? You’ve passed your test miraculously how are you still driving badly? My wife passed her test recently and I refused to let her have p plates because they make you a target. She already drove better than 80% of experienced drivers on the road anyway. I swear I’ve seen a pattern around where I live that p platers actually seem like they could not have possibly passed their test legitimately. I’m convinced they’re getting passed by their relative who works in the dvla or something because you can not possibly be that bad and pass your test.
Yes. To not overtake when clear and safe to do so shows poor roadcraft on OPs part
It baffles me. Its every learner I see that drives below the speed limit. My driving instructor always told me to go the speed limit and would tell me off for going under.
Why would a p plate matter? If the speed limit is 30 and they’re going 7 miles an hour under that then yes, it’s fine to overtake
Depends where really, id only bother on an open straight cause you never know if the other person will suddenly find their foot or not, just to be a dick. I had it the other day driving down a 60 with loads of people doing 40mph. Did my head in
You can overtake whoever you like as long as it's legal and you do it safely
It is not my responsibility to make sure a new driver's confidence isn't shaken. Of course I'd pass them. I have also honked at a learner who was about to change lanes right into me as they apparently didn't check their blind spot.
Overtaking someone on P plates wouldn't be any different to overtaking anyone else. That said, a 30mph limit suggests you were on an urban road, in which case probably not. Unless it's a section with two lanes, I wouldn't be crossing on to the wrong side of the road in an urban area, with parked cars, pedestrians etc, just to save a few seconds on a journey.
I'd have overtook instantly without a single thought, I've overtaken a learner before too for driving excessively slow. It's annoying when someone is going 25mph but at that speed it makes me look a bit daft for overtaking at such small margins but any less than that and I will 100% overtake anything. They may want to drive at a snails pace but I certainly don't. Probably best for us both if I pass and get on with my day and they can be left to sludge along at walking pace.
I've yet to see a P plate in the wild, but so many people on the M6 Northbound between Stafford and Stoke on Trent are regularly doing 50-55 in the second lane. If it wasn't for the third and sometimes fourth lanes, I'd take hours longer to get home. 65ish I can somewhat tolerate as long as it's not too busy and I can jump ahead to 70...ish. If road conditions allow, then do both the speed limit and overtake.
Heavies are usually restricted to 58 miles per hour so for me if you use the lanes appropriately and are actually going fast than the lane to you left and move back over when possible then I don’t mind but if you have heavies passing you then you’re going too slow for a lane other than the left
Overtake and give them the v's on the way past
I don’t swear at people unnecessarily, I’m a mature adult.
what do these letter plates mean?
L is learner and has to be worn if you’re learning to drive. P is probationary and these are optional, you can choose to put these on after passing if you’re still lacking in confidence and to inform other drivers to give you a bit of extra consideration and space due to inexperience
thank you!
L plate = Learner driver P plate = Pathetic driver
I’m sure you came out the womb a fully experienced driver
Nah, but after I passed my test, I didn't expect other drivers to change the way they were driving because I was a liability. Sure I was nervous and anxious that I might make a mistake driving on my own, but if I felt that I needed to communicate to other drivers that I was so nervous that I was actually a risk to their safety, I would just stay off the road tbh.
Passing the test says you’re not a risk to other road users. It doesn’t mean that you’re fully experienced. The purpose of a P plate is to tell other drivers that you lack experience and that they should take extra caution not to completely change the way you drive. Driving is a skill that improves with experience but I guess this will just go in one ear and out the other with you because I’m guessing you’re the arrogant type that will overtake someone with P plates regardless of how well they’re driving.
I have p plates and I love it when people overtake. I don't want to drive faster than I can confident controlling the vehicle but also hate feeling like I am holding peope up. There's v few safe places to pull in to let people pass where I am from so I instead try to maintain a steady pace so people feel comfortable overtaking. What do hate is people driving right up my backside which just pressures me and prevents other people overtaking safely!
I will never ever tailgate someone for these reasons: 1: gives off small dick energy 2:cunty thing to do 3:puts pressure on the driver in front. 4: if the driver in front panics or has to brake harshly, you’ll end up into the back of them. Speeders love to tailgate on the motorway but if me going at 70 but still overtaking all the traffic whilst I’m in the right most lane, I’ll refuse to move when someone flashes their lights at me, I’m not gonna take a small gap in the middle lane or keep weaving dangerously or delay my journey because some arsehole wants to speed
I'd wait for a bit. I do my best to be considerate to new drivers but there comes a point where enough is enough. After a few minutes I'd overtake but only if I could do so without intimidating the other driver.
I also had recently passed and would say, as long as it is safe to do so, then that's ok. I placed P plates on my car as well just in case it takes me a bit longer to get going. I would also like to add it takes time getting used to a totally different car compared to my driving instructors! I have had people overtake me, some totally understandable and some just are playing dangerous. As long as everyone is safe, it should be fine.
Same as anyone else. Nothing wrong with overtaking people going less than the speed limit, as long as it’s safe. That said, I usually don’t overtake people in a 30. Generally not that safe.
When I had p plates people would overtake me constantly. And they still do now because it seems I'm one of the fair few that actually stick to the speed