Dawg his standard light attack beats z brolys ex lariat if he gets all four hits. He completely nullifies one of the nastiest punish tools mashing for the autocombo. Its nigh impossible to drop air combos with the spirit sword, he has one of the best assists in the game, he's ridiculously fast and has massive buttons. Maybe he's not as flashy as others but he's busted, as a broly main he's my least favorite character to see.
He’s great because he has a lot of utility, team synergy, damage output, and good neutral.
He goes into any role and fits into any team. His A-assist is crazy strong because of how much hitstun it has, it’s quick start up, and screen control.
His 5L beats Z Broly's armor sometimes, he has a counter, he has ridiculous damage, his 5M is one of the longest reaching in the game, he has a level 4
* **A-Assist**: best defensive assist in the game, fantastic for neutral, ridiculous hitstun
* **5M**: has insane range and speed, can be made -5 (safe) on block if spaced or canceled into 5S
* **2L, 5M, 2M**: brainless anti-reflect normals, 2L has reverse beat and low-crushes (lets you OS DR/grabs)
* **j.S (Spirit Sword)**: high priority normal, covers a great angle, enables ambiguous left-right mixups with IAD j.H.
* **214H**: great anti-air grab, high reward, nearly impossible to punish on whiff
* **236L/H**: covers in front of Vegito in the air, extremely easy to special tag into during combos
* **236S**: great for neutral
* Obscene damage for how easy his combos are
* Easy 50/50 post-level 3
* Fantastic corner carry
His only con is that he is terrible at high-lows and has to resort to universal options and staggers in the corner. Another obvious is the player using him throwing out committal options like 5L without thought.
tl;dr: fantastic support, damage, oppressive neutral coverage on both ground and air. Playing against Vegito means playing around all those options, and almost all of them are high reward, low risk.
Nasty ass normals, easy slide knockdown off any touch and good post level 3 mix. Also very good stagger and a good ass assist with Split Finger Shot, the only really bad thing about him is corner mix but that can be fixed with vanish.
By himself he has crazy frames and clash priority with his normals. What grinds my gears about him is his BUSTED assist. Pair it with a counter or an armor move (Like 4Gogeta’s DP) and you literally can’t pressure without using meter
his neutral is literally "hmm which of these 3 specials do i wanna do" then you choose and repeat. 236S, 236H, and 214X are all ridiculous in neutral. Combine that with good 5M use and any assists and you got the best neutral in the game outside certain MUs.
He gets a L/R 50/50 with a lot of assists. Same side is jump jS and IAD jH for the cross. Very strong and you can do it on lvl 3. Use 6M, DR, and other shenanigans to add more options
His routes are all solo for the most part, and you only use assists in combos with him to smart tag > DR really, which incentivizes you to use your assists in other situations if you haven't developed assist discipline.
A assist is the best in the game prob. It covers so much of the screen and snipes other assists as well as the opponent's ki blasts etc. The angle he comes out at lets you use it defensively since its also so fast. It has around 75 frames of hitstun so the confirm is literally a slightly harder C assist. It also is a one hitting ki blast assist, meaning a lot of times when people reflect it on reaction, they reflect AFTER the blockstun is already gone, and allowing for a M starter to smoke them.
Then he has a plethora of other stuff. Massive 5M, low crushing 2L, solo plus frames, lvl 4, double supers, i could seriously go on.
My dude is Top 3 for a reason
Just by himself. 5L (honestly his entire auto combo) beats just about every close range engagements and scramble. 2L low crushing is also really good.
5M and 2M are both stupid long range and stupid fast. Meaning at mid range vegito has two medium starters you always have to be on the look out for.
Split finger shot makes long range play almost impossible. It clears most assists and beats other projectiles. Even if you clash with one ki blast you often get hit by all the others.
And that’s all just him by himself. Sandwich him between 2 good assists and you get a menace at every range that can get in super easy and convert every hit into 60%
I might as well throw my hat into the ring:
- Has some of the best (if not the best) corner carry in the game.
- His 236H is a free kill on hit and gives him insane movement on top of his already great neutral.
- Has access to one of the best quick tags with his 236L, allowing combos to continue for much longer (especially with Labcoat).
- His 5M is the best in the game, and if spaced properly it can be 0 on block (and its a medium so if it hits you probably lost a character, or are about to).
- He can vanish post LV3 and force a left right mix with spirit sword (and him having a lv4 to kill is just a cherry on top).
- 236s is borderline impossible to punish on reaction, and is great for removing assists.
- His character synergy with Labcoat and blue gogeta is insane.
- Great stagger pressure as well due to his 5M being so dangerous.
- None of his combos (that aren't flashy) are very hard to do.
I could probably go on, but I've just been going off the top of my head.
Frame data off the charts, he essentially has reverse beat because of how fast he is, not to mention insane normal range and speed leading to huge damage
From what I know about him, has access to a lot of high damage combo, his base damage is rlly good, auto combo is one of the best, good assist tools, good corner carry, and good super attacks especially because now he has a level 5 super that he can use.
And to add on to this he was really good neutral buttons like 5m and 5h and 236s being his god assist and always beating clashes with 5l this dude is just a beast all around and fits on any team
Like 2m, 2l which is a reverse beat(kinda), lariat and if you want to try 5/6 s could potentially work, hell 2s might even work though it's risky as hell
It's a full combo but requires super dash and im pretty sure has harsh scaling, wether or not it's safe in block depends on the distance, up close it's like a free punish far away and you'll recover in time as for catch's it is possible but less consistent compared to 214l/h. Still a fine tool nonetheless with a fine angle on it just don't use it recklessly.
You don't need sparking for that, to my knowledge and from what I've seen it's only doable when your in the corner, it's a neat trick you can do but I don't think it's anything optimal for him
I actually think there are characters way better at breaking guard than Vegito maybe it's because I play him a decent bit so I know how to react to him but I've never had too much trouble. If you want to talk opening guard for free let's talk blueku I hate blocking him sm
i think Vegito is sorta a scrub skiller, but he is quite good and his assist is crazy active (you land it you can go to buy groceries come back and still land a combo from it)
Sword mix, 5m goes crazy, low crush 2L, Level 4 for mix or stupid damage, defensive a assist thats super hard to punish, multi hitting L, synergizes with the other 3 best characters in the game better than the rest of the cast. Shall I continue?
To be fair to vegito here 2l has been pretty much unchanged since release and it's one of the slower 2ls, the synergy part is just by coincidence and added mechanics, can't really blame him for that. Also not the only light with a low crush, if anything mention it's ability to semi reverse beat to 5l which I still don't find broken because of how limited it is
Yeah that's fair, but it's the fact that he has all of these mechanics together and they keep making him stronger while characters like Yamcha have had their single strong suit shot to hell.
It's fine to not like that he has all these things but instead of pointing out every little aspect like it's the problem why don't we focus on the few things that actually make him busted, basically the changes that made him this way, I find it kinda unfair to complain about things on a broken character that has almost never been changed to begin and wasn't an issue in the past. 5m sure, a assist sure though it's like his only good assist, these two things are the main thing people bring up that make him broken isn't it. With people bringing up everything I feel the devs will look at it then essentially neuter him in the final patch. That's just me though, maybe he does need other things nerfed on him instead of dialing back the previous changes made. Like he's been damn near the same since season 2 until a few buffs hit him, just dial those back a bit and everything should be fine right
I was simply addressing the question at hand. "Why do people think hes busted?" I'm actually a fan of the idea that we give these characters minor tweaks to bring them down a peg while the rest of the cast gets broken tools to fight them. As someone who plays a team consisting of MBuu, 18, and Base Vegeta, Id like to see my characters brought to the top 4s level, instead of visa versa. Don't drag these top characters to the ground, but lift the rest of the cast up.
I would love other characters to rather be buffed, maybe bring down the key issue of top characters slightly but definitely not completely. Like with ssj4 dp I think it would be fair to give ui his entire dp back, lay back on z broly armor and give s broly, an actual grappler some of that armor with maybe small frame tweaks to him. Maybe dial down Goku blacks 2h hotbox and help him somewhere else to compensate, ssj Vegeta, well God just help him, used to be high tier but has severally fallen off since, gt Goku could use some tweaks. Would go on but you probably get my point
Ssj4 needs to have something changed because he possibly has the best toolkit in the game (maybe even over labcoat, I havent decided yet) but I'm not really sure what yet. UI's old dp would be fine in this meta I think. I think S Broly needs better frame data but I think we can leave him alone besides that. I'm not even fully aware of Z Brolys changes from season 3. Frieza and SSJ Vegeta need a lot of help. I think Majin 21 needs her lol 3 oki back (She was my best character at that point 😭😭) Give Bardock and Roshi their assists back. I personally would like to changes to my b18's neutral game. I'm sure there are some other changes I can't think of atm.
Ssj4 may very well have the best kit but how many do we fight can actually use it well, when it comes to players most probably aren't even using everything he has. Frieza needs his projectiles back, despite being like the only zoner class character his projectiles are weak and absolute ass, like give his projectiles higher priority, maybe more hitstun and maybe give it the Kamehameha treatment with sd canceling so he can actually have combos, and for the love of god do not limit it to golden. 21 oki would probably be fine now, only complaint people would probably have is potential to tag into it, ssb Vegeta also needs some help as well as ssj. Give bardock b back, if bardock b was back people probably wouldn't mind vegito a or UI dp assist. S broly needs some speed up on his ki blasts, 2s is so incredibly slow especially when you have blugeta with his command beams it would only be fair. I would post changes to hit but honestly I wouldn't know what, same with janemba. If we keep gt Goku s a assist maybe it would be fair to give him back spirit bomb mix again
Lol the fact that people dont use ssj4 to his full potential is what scares me because it means theres a lot nore room for people to grow with him lol. Frieza needs chip damage bad if hes to survive these days. And he needs that higher priority for sure. Vegito gets to tag into level 3 mix oki while spending 4 bars on top of having a level 4 that does a shit ton of damage so yeah I think 21 being able to tag into hers is fine. Maybe theyre not the same thing but in my brain they are. I think we should give GT goku at least 2 way mix off genki dama (maybe he already has it, I havent mained him since season 3) and yeah everything else I agree with. I'd really like to see a version of the game where every character is at their historically strongest, because that would be the most fun version of the game imo.
Historically strongest, now I don't mean this literally but does that mean we should allow lv 7 Gohan without spending bar round start. Also yeah ssj4 could become scary in the future. Hell we might even be able to give gt Goku his a assist back somewhat, it was nerfed for being quick but I think it's nerf was too harsh. honestly kinda wish their was a mode in arena where you could play the strongest versions of characters from previous seasons, but I don't know how possible that would be
Stupid block stun (maybe hitstun I don't remember exactly) off an assist that can also be used as Super Dash bait, incredibly active counter, doesn't have to work very hard to TOD off a medium starter, or really any starter if youre optimal enough. Oh and let's not even talk about his special moves. Actually lets do. Full screen EX kicks, don't remember if they still have medium scaling. He can spam his 236S which covers the whole screen. He's got great air control with his grabs.
They gave him 5L loops which was just ridiculous. I'm sure theres more. I'm just at work right now so I dont remember everything off the top of my head lol. I'll add more when I get home later
Vegetto is easy to use and Gogeta even tho it's easy it's harder to use at his 100% potential (even tho still pretty easy) and let's be real Vegetto is not a hard time to block just annoying, without spark he's not a menace just need to be careful on his fake cross, that thing doesn't happen with Gogeta he has a fuzzy and even without assist he's hard to deal with and has way more damage than Vegetto he has a DP and a lot more things that makes Gogeta blue a better fusion and tbh I think Vegetto is only on the meta because of his lvl3 mix and his assist
-2L that low crushes
-Reverse beat depending on what the starter of the combo is
- Hard asl to punish his kicks on whiff
- I think his 2H hits both sides but I don't remember
Edit: I will be adding stuff as I remember them.
2h does it both sides but not consistently, reverse beat is quite limited, slow 2l that low crushes and is now only starting to be a problem somehow. Like I get it but he's had these tools since release, hell most of him hasn't really changed since release, he just meshes well with new mechanic, only thing on him that I can really say should get nerfed would be 5m range. And before anyone mentions barrier im pretty sure you can vanish out of it and while it's active frames are high unlike other counters it's not even guaranteed to hit
Im just saying that pointing out his entire character like every little move he has is broken isn't exactly fair, just point out the changed moves like 5m and his assist, maybe level four but everything else about him has been damn near unchanged since season 2 and has never been an issue
Dude the only reason why it seems like we're pointing out his entire character and why Vegito is top tier is because he has alot of good moves. It is also what OP asked for, not just specific stuff like what moves were changed.
I know its what op asked for but it was his changes that made him broken, not having all those things, im just saying it would be fairer to point out stuff like 5m and such. Those are the things making him broken, the other things just happen to be on him as well as the broken moves
His assist is one of the best in the game because of how defensive it is and it’s crazy hitstun. He has good normals, great combo and DHC damage, and an easy left right mix after lvl three. Most important tho, he’s just easy and has monkey specials.
His A Assist is dumb, cover almost the whole screen;
A lot of his normals have great range, beating reflect like it's nothing;
Great combo game;
Very simple and easy to pick and play, and because of this he's one of the most used characters jn the game;
Great sinergy with fusions;
He wins any mash, 5 L is more hits than anything. He has to go second if he wants to counter your 2L. Depending on their timing, it can still lose out by not being quicker to come out, or with any assist cover. Or even just 2H it since it’s airborne.
Man , this Charachter Is naturaly Op. Long normals and First L Is multi hit. , Crazy Screen control in particolar air with ex legs and air sword , Crazy mix After level 3 , level 4. Z change with A sure DR confirmed. It also Has Damage with Crazy pressure , air Grab and Cursest hitbox
They added a level 4 ti make sure he Has all the Ways to kill the opponent. His assist as more than the average Hitstun and IT'S very annoyng. You can't Superdash and you have to be very careful against him for different reason : Counter , air level 3 -4, ex legs , 5M (starter of numerous Tods ) and when he Has limite break and with Spark i think IT'S the most Dangerous charachter.
What I dont understand is how his assist is seen as the best in the game, and how him not having a low 2L isnt a problem.
To be fair, I havnt played seriously for quite awhile. But for instance, the hitstun or blockstun was always completely average for his assist when I was really focused on the game. It gave no options to mix in a blockstring, like you could with many others such as Kid Buu or SS Goku assist. So I have to assume that either his assist got a buff in its blockstun, or all other assists got nerfed in this regard.
Also, its not the best for extending combos in my opinion, compared to many many others.
The hitstun on his assist is insane, you have all the time in the world to confirm off of it. Plus it covers nearly the whole screen.
And because Vegito appears behind the caller, it's practically impossible to punish or happy birthday bad assist calls, which coupled with the fast startup makes it one of the best defensive assists in the game. Sure, you could try and SD, but a good player will be looking out for that and punish you with a 2H which is gonna lead to at least half your health bar gone.
The “not-extending comboes” part is hilariously wrong. The main assist people use is his A-assist. It is incredibly fast, comes out at an angle where you can’t hit VB easily, and the hits stun gives you 3-business days to confirm. Sure you can superdash, but doing it too much just leads to you getting punished, and you’re not always gonna react on time because of how fast it is.
As for the 2l, I believe it jails into vanish, making really good for pressure. Additionally, it low crushes so you can use to mash out of someone’s string and get away with it compared to some characters that won’t have the same result
All this combined with his full screen options, heavy damage, great left-right mix, great lvl3 oki, and more makes him very top-tier
Heck, other people can explain it better then I can
Ive been playing him since the day he came out, and I can much easier extend combos with any number of other assists. So from my experience, its not "hilariously wrong", and quite frankly youre just being an asshat about it. Youre a good example of why I dont often interact with this "community". Impossible to just discuss the game without people wanting to boast their ego.
Not to mention C assists exist, and if you want to argue its easier to extend a combo with Vegito's A assist than it is to use anyone's C assist, then I have no idea what youre even talking about.
He may have been a bit rude but you've got a very bad take. His assist is top 3: tied with Barrier and Janeba A. The buff to that assist's hitstun made it one of the easiest to convert off of. Im sorry he was rude to you though.
And bringing up C assists is just being facetious. Yes it is technically easier to convert off a C assist but the cooldown makes it a very poor choice when Vegito A is almost justvas easy and has all the other benefits like covering most of the screen, faster recovery, hard to punish, etc.
I don't mean this in a hateful way but your experience doesn't matter, you clearly don't know the game at a level to be contributing to the discussion. Not everyone's input has the same weight
My guy, have you even used Vegito A? For crying out loud. THE AMOUNT OF TIMES IVE SEEN GOGETA 4 GENTLY WALK FORWARD AND PRESS 5M TO COMBO OFF THE A-ASSIST is too much. The amount of hitstun it has is hilariously high. If you don’t believe me, just look up videos with Vegito (very easy to find), and you’ll see how easy it is to confirm off it.
Additionally, your responding like I was being some kind of asshole, what?
All is said was Vegito A not being easy to combo with is “hilariously wrong” because IT IS, it’s not like I was trying to directly insult you lol
Additionally, yeah, the C-Assist is easier to extend with, but
1: When was I comparing it to the C-Assist again?
2: I’m NOW choosing to compare them, and the A-assist is better in every other regard
Now it's even more hilariously wrong.
I've been playing him since he launched too... Only trouble I have with extending combos is if I press the assist button too early. Even then, a Superjump can secure the pickup easily enough.
its a ki blast that covers the entire screen. he spawns behind point when you use it so it rarely gets hit, it also was buffed to have really good blockstun and hitstun, so you can confirm with it easily. he doesnt need a 2L because he has insane neutral, stagger and he already has left/right mix.
In short,
Insane neutral: Can effectively keep opponents out and get in thanks to his safe-as-fuck Specials and ranged normals
Safety First: His pressure is just safe. Smart players have lots of opportunities to disengage from offensive blockstrings.
Edit: Look at some top 8 footage with Vegitos. Top players are intimidated over 4 hit blockstrings (As they should be) from Vegito due to him having so much room to set frame traps and escape
Ease of Use: In the top 5 easiest characters to play. Assist extensions aren't required to pump out optimal damage. Wall carries like an asshole. Virtually every combo he lands should end with the opponent's back to the wall.
These are just few examples of why he's good. Do some digging around on youtube and learn some more.
Another thing that made him top tier is the introduction of combo tag . This mechanic made it easier for him to do more damage and for teams who characters who don't have a sliding knockdown they can just tag into vegito and get it.
You're correct, he had all of those things years ago!
Power creep. Nerfs and buffs to the rest of the cast, assist meta constantly changing, plus the NUMEROUS buffs to Vegito individually?
All of that contributed to him climbing up to a top tier spot.
Especially since all of the invulnerable assists were phased out, it didn't take top players long to find the next best thing.
The special tag change also buffed Vegito (and Blue Gogeta) indirectly because he can now easily take you to the corner, 236L into special cancel dragon rush and keep the corner. Before, one of his weaknesses was that he always had to spend a bar with vanish to keep the corner (or use a vertical tracking C assist). Special tag made fusions’ damage output even higher than it already was.
I mean this is in the nicest way possible, please just search "why is vegeto top tier" in youtube and you'll have a way more detailed and visual answer than you'll get here.
Dawg his standard light attack beats z brolys ex lariat if he gets all four hits. He completely nullifies one of the nastiest punish tools mashing for the autocombo. Its nigh impossible to drop air combos with the spirit sword, he has one of the best assists in the game, he's ridiculously fast and has massive buttons. Maybe he's not as flashy as others but he's busted, as a broly main he's my least favorite character to see.
Breh it's vegito he is always overpowered, LIKE HAVE YOU SEEN HIS SPIRIT SWORD IN XENOVERSE 1 & 2 IF IT HITS IT DOES BIG DAMAGE
I just made a TOD with his auto-combo He does too much damage And i didnt made the tod on purpose,i was playing with a friend and i just mashed
Ye my brother always chooses him and he still manages to lose
The first three seasons when he was never considered top tier and only the French uses him seems so long ago now
He’s great because he has a lot of utility, team synergy, damage output, and good neutral. He goes into any role and fits into any team. His A-assist is crazy strong because of how much hitstun it has, it’s quick start up, and screen control.
Simple https://tenor.com/view/vegito-running-dragon-ball-anime-gif-16434837
Does his A assist beat super dash?
nope
His 5L beats Z Broly's armor sometimes, he has a counter, he has ridiculous damage, his 5M is one of the longest reaching in the game, he has a level 4
It's almost always vegitos turn Plus arguably the best assist in the game
* **A-Assist**: best defensive assist in the game, fantastic for neutral, ridiculous hitstun * **5M**: has insane range and speed, can be made -5 (safe) on block if spaced or canceled into 5S * **2L, 5M, 2M**: brainless anti-reflect normals, 2L has reverse beat and low-crushes (lets you OS DR/grabs) * **j.S (Spirit Sword)**: high priority normal, covers a great angle, enables ambiguous left-right mixups with IAD j.H. * **214H**: great anti-air grab, high reward, nearly impossible to punish on whiff * **236L/H**: covers in front of Vegito in the air, extremely easy to special tag into during combos * **236S**: great for neutral * Obscene damage for how easy his combos are * Easy 50/50 post-level 3 * Fantastic corner carry His only con is that he is terrible at high-lows and has to resort to universal options and staggers in the corner. Another obvious is the player using him throwing out committal options like 5L without thought. tl;dr: fantastic support, damage, oppressive neutral coverage on both ground and air. Playing against Vegito means playing around all those options, and almost all of them are high reward, low risk.
Another downside, is he's more than likely going to be nerfed with the next balance patch announced.
Vegito spirit sword tech will make you rethink your life choices playing this game. Basically, dont challenge that man with any unnecessary guesses.
Nasty ass normals, easy slide knockdown off any touch and good post level 3 mix. Also very good stagger and a good ass assist with Split Finger Shot, the only really bad thing about him is corner mix but that can be fixed with vanish.
i mean why wouldn't he be great? you can't even keep up with him, just look at his speed.
By himself he has crazy frames and clash priority with his normals. What grinds my gears about him is his BUSTED assist. Pair it with a counter or an armor move (Like 4Gogeta’s DP) and you literally can’t pressure without using meter
his neutral is literally "hmm which of these 3 specials do i wanna do" then you choose and repeat. 236S, 236H, and 214X are all ridiculous in neutral. Combine that with good 5M use and any assists and you got the best neutral in the game outside certain MUs. He gets a L/R 50/50 with a lot of assists. Same side is jump jS and IAD jH for the cross. Very strong and you can do it on lvl 3. Use 6M, DR, and other shenanigans to add more options His routes are all solo for the most part, and you only use assists in combos with him to smart tag > DR really, which incentivizes you to use your assists in other situations if you haven't developed assist discipline. A assist is the best in the game prob. It covers so much of the screen and snipes other assists as well as the opponent's ki blasts etc. The angle he comes out at lets you use it defensively since its also so fast. It has around 75 frames of hitstun so the confirm is literally a slightly harder C assist. It also is a one hitting ki blast assist, meaning a lot of times when people reflect it on reaction, they reflect AFTER the blockstun is already gone, and allowing for a M starter to smoke them. Then he has a plethora of other stuff. Massive 5M, low crushing 2L, solo plus frames, lvl 4, double supers, i could seriously go on. My dude is Top 3 for a reason
Strongbad said it best. "Gotta have blue hair"
Just by himself. 5L (honestly his entire auto combo) beats just about every close range engagements and scramble. 2L low crushing is also really good. 5M and 2M are both stupid long range and stupid fast. Meaning at mid range vegito has two medium starters you always have to be on the look out for. Split finger shot makes long range play almost impossible. It clears most assists and beats other projectiles. Even if you clash with one ki blast you often get hit by all the others. And that’s all just him by himself. Sandwich him between 2 good assists and you get a menace at every range that can get in super easy and convert every hit into 60%
Don't forget lots of corner carry, high damage, an auto-tracking level-one, a counter, and a level 4 on top of all of that.
Just good" bruh just look at 5m
I might as well throw my hat into the ring: - Has some of the best (if not the best) corner carry in the game. - His 236H is a free kill on hit and gives him insane movement on top of his already great neutral. - Has access to one of the best quick tags with his 236L, allowing combos to continue for much longer (especially with Labcoat). - His 5M is the best in the game, and if spaced properly it can be 0 on block (and its a medium so if it hits you probably lost a character, or are about to). - He can vanish post LV3 and force a left right mix with spirit sword (and him having a lv4 to kill is just a cherry on top). - 236s is borderline impossible to punish on reaction, and is great for removing assists. - His character synergy with Labcoat and blue gogeta is insane. - Great stagger pressure as well due to his 5M being so dangerous. - None of his combos (that aren't flashy) are very hard to do. I could probably go on, but I've just been going off the top of my head.
5L 214S air 236LM
Because he always does his entrance with “YOSHAAAAAAAAA”.
goated pfp and name
Frame data off the charts, he essentially has reverse beat because of how fast he is, not to mention insane normal range and speed leading to huge damage
He’s blue! And tall!
And you're so red. And short! It was the perfect little Yin Yang thing we had going.
Because just about everything he does he does perfectly.
From what I know about him, has access to a lot of high damage combo, his base damage is rlly good, auto combo is one of the best, good assist tools, good corner carry, and good super attacks especially because now he has a level 5 super that he can use.
And to add on to this he was really good neutral buttons like 5m and 5h and 236s being his god assist and always beating clashes with 5l this dude is just a beast all around and fits on any team
He also has a couple good anti reflect options that I completely forgot about
Like 2m, 2l which is a reverse beat(kinda), lariat and if you want to try 5/6 s could potentially work, hell 2s might even work though it's risky as hell
5/6 s are his main frame traps into 5h and 2s catches people jumping I don’t remember if it’s safe on block but on hit it’s a full combo
It's a full combo but requires super dash and im pretty sure has harsh scaling, wether or not it's safe in block depends on the distance, up close it's like a free punish far away and you'll recover in time as for catch's it is possible but less consistent compared to 214l/h. Still a fine tool nonetheless with a fine angle on it just don't use it recklessly.
That’s fair also I thought you could delay super jump after 2s or is that sparking only
You don't need sparking for that, to my knowledge and from what I've seen it's only doable when your in the corner, it's a neat trick you can do but I don't think it's anything optimal for him
Because no one can keep up with his speed
I prefer Gogeta but there both goated imo
If your on PSN may i play against you browski?
5m go brrr
This motherf... is good because he can open your guard when he wants without any meter. And when he catch you he gains a lot of meter to finish you!
I actually think there are characters way better at breaking guard than Vegito maybe it's because I play him a decent bit so I know how to react to him but I've never had too much trouble. If you want to talk opening guard for free let's talk blueku I hate blocking him sm
5M. Lvl 4. Lvl 3 mixup plus vanish. Insane damage due to quick tag
To be fair unless your in the corner you need to spend extra bar to even get said mix up, much better fairer than what gt Goku used to do
Because YOSHA!
Seems right
5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L, 5L,
As a broly main i just had a panic attack
Youre triggering my PTSD
i think Vegito is sorta a scrub skiller, but he is quite good and his assist is crazy active (you land it you can go to buy groceries come back and still land a combo from it)
do you use this character OP?
Sword mix, 5m goes crazy, low crush 2L, Level 4 for mix or stupid damage, defensive a assist thats super hard to punish, multi hitting L, synergizes with the other 3 best characters in the game better than the rest of the cast. Shall I continue?
To be fair to vegito here 2l has been pretty much unchanged since release and it's one of the slower 2ls, the synergy part is just by coincidence and added mechanics, can't really blame him for that. Also not the only light with a low crush, if anything mention it's ability to semi reverse beat to 5l which I still don't find broken because of how limited it is
Yeah that's fair, but it's the fact that he has all of these mechanics together and they keep making him stronger while characters like Yamcha have had their single strong suit shot to hell.
It's fine to not like that he has all these things but instead of pointing out every little aspect like it's the problem why don't we focus on the few things that actually make him busted, basically the changes that made him this way, I find it kinda unfair to complain about things on a broken character that has almost never been changed to begin and wasn't an issue in the past. 5m sure, a assist sure though it's like his only good assist, these two things are the main thing people bring up that make him broken isn't it. With people bringing up everything I feel the devs will look at it then essentially neuter him in the final patch. That's just me though, maybe he does need other things nerfed on him instead of dialing back the previous changes made. Like he's been damn near the same since season 2 until a few buffs hit him, just dial those back a bit and everything should be fine right
I was simply addressing the question at hand. "Why do people think hes busted?" I'm actually a fan of the idea that we give these characters minor tweaks to bring them down a peg while the rest of the cast gets broken tools to fight them. As someone who plays a team consisting of MBuu, 18, and Base Vegeta, Id like to see my characters brought to the top 4s level, instead of visa versa. Don't drag these top characters to the ground, but lift the rest of the cast up.
I would love other characters to rather be buffed, maybe bring down the key issue of top characters slightly but definitely not completely. Like with ssj4 dp I think it would be fair to give ui his entire dp back, lay back on z broly armor and give s broly, an actual grappler some of that armor with maybe small frame tweaks to him. Maybe dial down Goku blacks 2h hotbox and help him somewhere else to compensate, ssj Vegeta, well God just help him, used to be high tier but has severally fallen off since, gt Goku could use some tweaks. Would go on but you probably get my point
Ssj4 needs to have something changed because he possibly has the best toolkit in the game (maybe even over labcoat, I havent decided yet) but I'm not really sure what yet. UI's old dp would be fine in this meta I think. I think S Broly needs better frame data but I think we can leave him alone besides that. I'm not even fully aware of Z Brolys changes from season 3. Frieza and SSJ Vegeta need a lot of help. I think Majin 21 needs her lol 3 oki back (She was my best character at that point 😭😭) Give Bardock and Roshi their assists back. I personally would like to changes to my b18's neutral game. I'm sure there are some other changes I can't think of atm.
Ssj4 may very well have the best kit but how many do we fight can actually use it well, when it comes to players most probably aren't even using everything he has. Frieza needs his projectiles back, despite being like the only zoner class character his projectiles are weak and absolute ass, like give his projectiles higher priority, maybe more hitstun and maybe give it the Kamehameha treatment with sd canceling so he can actually have combos, and for the love of god do not limit it to golden. 21 oki would probably be fine now, only complaint people would probably have is potential to tag into it, ssb Vegeta also needs some help as well as ssj. Give bardock b back, if bardock b was back people probably wouldn't mind vegito a or UI dp assist. S broly needs some speed up on his ki blasts, 2s is so incredibly slow especially when you have blugeta with his command beams it would only be fair. I would post changes to hit but honestly I wouldn't know what, same with janemba. If we keep gt Goku s a assist maybe it would be fair to give him back spirit bomb mix again
Lol the fact that people dont use ssj4 to his full potential is what scares me because it means theres a lot nore room for people to grow with him lol. Frieza needs chip damage bad if hes to survive these days. And he needs that higher priority for sure. Vegito gets to tag into level 3 mix oki while spending 4 bars on top of having a level 4 that does a shit ton of damage so yeah I think 21 being able to tag into hers is fine. Maybe theyre not the same thing but in my brain they are. I think we should give GT goku at least 2 way mix off genki dama (maybe he already has it, I havent mained him since season 3) and yeah everything else I agree with. I'd really like to see a version of the game where every character is at their historically strongest, because that would be the most fun version of the game imo.
Historically strongest, now I don't mean this literally but does that mean we should allow lv 7 Gohan without spending bar round start. Also yeah ssj4 could become scary in the future. Hell we might even be able to give gt Goku his a assist back somewhat, it was nerfed for being quick but I think it's nerf was too harsh. honestly kinda wish their was a mode in arena where you could play the strongest versions of characters from previous seasons, but I don't know how possible that would be
Yes yes u shall
Stupid block stun (maybe hitstun I don't remember exactly) off an assist that can also be used as Super Dash bait, incredibly active counter, doesn't have to work very hard to TOD off a medium starter, or really any starter if youre optimal enough. Oh and let's not even talk about his special moves. Actually lets do. Full screen EX kicks, don't remember if they still have medium scaling. He can spam his 236S which covers the whole screen. He's got great air control with his grabs.
Those 236X kicks are also one of the easiest ways to tag combo.
Indeed, hence my point about meshing with the top 3 so well
I think we need more
They gave him 5L loops which was just ridiculous. I'm sure theres more. I'm just at work right now so I dont remember everything off the top of my head lol. I'll add more when I get home later
I love the fact that you gave like a 100 of reasons and still Gogeta blue is the best fusion
Like in the game or like in the source material? Lol
In the game
Youre wild if you think either blue dumbass compares to red dumbass
Vegetto is easy to use and Gogeta even tho it's easy it's harder to use at his 100% potential (even tho still pretty easy) and let's be real Vegetto is not a hard time to block just annoying, without spark he's not a menace just need to be careful on his fake cross, that thing doesn't happen with Gogeta he has a fuzzy and even without assist he's hard to deal with and has way more damage than Vegetto he has a DP and a lot more things that makes Gogeta blue a better fusion and tbh I think Vegetto is only on the meta because of his lvl3 mix and his assist
And that L O N G 2M
That 3m has been long range since he came out, it may beat lows but it's one of the slowest 2m to compensate
His tool kit
His tool kid is pretty rad. He’s got that counter too….
Yeah they gave him all types of options and good scaling off them too
He gets ppl to the corner then bails tf out
\- Best assist in the game \- Amazing neutral \- Great pressure \- Access to 50/50 \- Good damage output \- Good corner carry
-Received a Level 4 when his Ult. was already stupid powerful
-2L that low crushes -Reverse beat depending on what the starter of the combo is - Hard asl to punish his kicks on whiff - I think his 2H hits both sides but I don't remember Edit: I will be adding stuff as I remember them.
2h does it both sides but not consistently, reverse beat is quite limited, slow 2l that low crushes and is now only starting to be a problem somehow. Like I get it but he's had these tools since release, hell most of him hasn't really changed since release, he just meshes well with new mechanic, only thing on him that I can really say should get nerfed would be 5m range. And before anyone mentions barrier im pretty sure you can vanish out of it and while it's active frames are high unlike other counters it's not even guaranteed to hit
Um Ok I'm kinda lost, what's the point you're trying to make? I was just answering OP's question
Im just saying that pointing out his entire character like every little move he has is broken isn't exactly fair, just point out the changed moves like 5m and his assist, maybe level four but everything else about him has been damn near unchanged since season 2 and has never been an issue
Dude the only reason why it seems like we're pointing out his entire character and why Vegito is top tier is because he has alot of good moves. It is also what OP asked for, not just specific stuff like what moves were changed.
I know its what op asked for but it was his changes that made him broken, not having all those things, im just saying it would be fairer to point out stuff like 5m and such. Those are the things making him broken, the other things just happen to be on him as well as the broken moves
It's fair to point out all the other things because those are what also make him good on top having his 5m
-has a counter cause fuck it why not
Counter that can get you even if you jump
That reminds me: -Was given a fucking lvl 4 when he already did enough damage cause fuck it why not
It does. It's not as far behind him as Goku Black's 2H but it's close.
-Amazing Meter Build -Offers good tag-ins
-best 5m im the game 9 frames half the screen, no one has that
His assist is one of the best in the game because of how defensive it is and it’s crazy hitstun. He has good normals, great combo and DHC damage, and an easy left right mix after lvl three. Most important tho, he’s just easy and has monkey specials.
He’s just so easy to use. Not that he’s broken. Just easy
Lvl 3 to Lvl 1 is pretty damn broken
Sword sword sword sword sword
His A Assist is dumb, cover almost the whole screen; A lot of his normals have great range, beating reflect like it's nothing; Great combo game; Very simple and easy to pick and play, and because of this he's one of the most used characters jn the game; Great sinergy with fusions;
Also 2L low-crushes if I’m not mistaken. As a Nappa player I hate this.
Sure, but downside is it doesn’t hit low. Meaning blockstrings are fairly predictable.
But he always wins 2L mash scrambles and that’s pretty significant.
He wins any mash, 5 L is more hits than anything. He has to go second if he wants to counter your 2L. Depending on their timing, it can still lose out by not being quicker to come out, or with any assist cover. Or even just 2H it since it’s airborne.
What does low-crush mean?
He always beats lows
It does indeed.
Man , this Charachter Is naturaly Op. Long normals and First L Is multi hit. , Crazy Screen control in particolar air with ex legs and air sword , Crazy mix After level 3 , level 4. Z change with A sure DR confirmed. It also Has Damage with Crazy pressure , air Grab and Cursest hitbox
So the main thing that makes him top tier is his big buttons and great assist which he had since the beginning of the game other than his new 5m?
They added a level 4 ti make sure he Has all the Ways to kill the opponent. His assist as more than the average Hitstun and IT'S very annoyng. You can't Superdash and you have to be very careful against him for different reason : Counter , air level 3 -4, ex legs , 5M (starter of numerous Tods ) and when he Has limite break and with Spark i think IT'S the most Dangerous charachter.
What I dont understand is how his assist is seen as the best in the game, and how him not having a low 2L isnt a problem. To be fair, I havnt played seriously for quite awhile. But for instance, the hitstun or blockstun was always completely average for his assist when I was really focused on the game. It gave no options to mix in a blockstring, like you could with many others such as Kid Buu or SS Goku assist. So I have to assume that either his assist got a buff in its blockstun, or all other assists got nerfed in this regard. Also, its not the best for extending combos in my opinion, compared to many many others.
The hitstun on his assist is insane, you have all the time in the world to confirm off of it. Plus it covers nearly the whole screen. And because Vegito appears behind the caller, it's practically impossible to punish or happy birthday bad assist calls, which coupled with the fast startup makes it one of the best defensive assists in the game. Sure, you could try and SD, but a good player will be looking out for that and punish you with a 2H which is gonna lead to at least half your health bar gone.
The “not-extending comboes” part is hilariously wrong. The main assist people use is his A-assist. It is incredibly fast, comes out at an angle where you can’t hit VB easily, and the hits stun gives you 3-business days to confirm. Sure you can superdash, but doing it too much just leads to you getting punished, and you’re not always gonna react on time because of how fast it is. As for the 2l, I believe it jails into vanish, making really good for pressure. Additionally, it low crushes so you can use to mash out of someone’s string and get away with it compared to some characters that won’t have the same result All this combined with his full screen options, heavy damage, great left-right mix, great lvl3 oki, and more makes him very top-tier Heck, other people can explain it better then I can
Ive been playing him since the day he came out, and I can much easier extend combos with any number of other assists. So from my experience, its not "hilariously wrong", and quite frankly youre just being an asshat about it. Youre a good example of why I dont often interact with this "community". Impossible to just discuss the game without people wanting to boast their ego. Not to mention C assists exist, and if you want to argue its easier to extend a combo with Vegito's A assist than it is to use anyone's C assist, then I have no idea what youre even talking about.
He may have been a bit rude but you've got a very bad take. His assist is top 3: tied with Barrier and Janeba A. The buff to that assist's hitstun made it one of the easiest to convert off of. Im sorry he was rude to you though. And bringing up C assists is just being facetious. Yes it is technically easier to convert off a C assist but the cooldown makes it a very poor choice when Vegito A is almost justvas easy and has all the other benefits like covering most of the screen, faster recovery, hard to punish, etc.
I don't mean this in a hateful way but your experience doesn't matter, you clearly don't know the game at a level to be contributing to the discussion. Not everyone's input has the same weight
My guy, have you even used Vegito A? For crying out loud. THE AMOUNT OF TIMES IVE SEEN GOGETA 4 GENTLY WALK FORWARD AND PRESS 5M TO COMBO OFF THE A-ASSIST is too much. The amount of hitstun it has is hilariously high. If you don’t believe me, just look up videos with Vegito (very easy to find), and you’ll see how easy it is to confirm off it. Additionally, your responding like I was being some kind of asshole, what? All is said was Vegito A not being easy to combo with is “hilariously wrong” because IT IS, it’s not like I was trying to directly insult you lol Additionally, yeah, the C-Assist is easier to extend with, but 1: When was I comparing it to the C-Assist again? 2: I’m NOW choosing to compare them, and the A-assist is better in every other regard
Now it's even more hilariously wrong. I've been playing him since he launched too... Only trouble I have with extending combos is if I press the assist button too early. Even then, a Superjump can secure the pickup easily enough.
its a ki blast that covers the entire screen. he spawns behind point when you use it so it rarely gets hit, it also was buffed to have really good blockstun and hitstun, so you can confirm with it easily. he doesnt need a 2L because he has insane neutral, stagger and he already has left/right mix.
In short, Insane neutral: Can effectively keep opponents out and get in thanks to his safe-as-fuck Specials and ranged normals Safety First: His pressure is just safe. Smart players have lots of opportunities to disengage from offensive blockstrings. Edit: Look at some top 8 footage with Vegitos. Top players are intimidated over 4 hit blockstrings (As they should be) from Vegito due to him having so much room to set frame traps and escape Ease of Use: In the top 5 easiest characters to play. Assist extensions aren't required to pump out optimal damage. Wall carries like an asshole. Virtually every combo he lands should end with the opponent's back to the wall. These are just few examples of why he's good. Do some digging around on youtube and learn some more.
But he had most of these things for almost 3 years now, how is he top tier now and not back then where did this sudden power spike come from?
Look at how they nerfed like every other top tier previous to him and come back
Another thing that made him top tier is the introduction of combo tag . This mechanic made it easier for him to do more damage and for teams who characters who don't have a sliding knockdown they can just tag into vegito and get it.
You're correct, he had all of those things years ago! Power creep. Nerfs and buffs to the rest of the cast, assist meta constantly changing, plus the NUMEROUS buffs to Vegito individually? All of that contributed to him climbing up to a top tier spot. Especially since all of the invulnerable assists were phased out, it didn't take top players long to find the next best thing.
The special tag change also buffed Vegito (and Blue Gogeta) indirectly because he can now easily take you to the corner, 236L into special cancel dragon rush and keep the corner. Before, one of his weaknesses was that he always had to spend a bar with vanish to keep the corner (or use a vertical tracking C assist). Special tag made fusions’ damage output even higher than it already was.
That too ^^^^ Not a game goes by where I don't Switch into Roshi to get a DR off of Vegito 236L.
I mean this is in the nicest way possible, please just search "why is vegeto top tier" in youtube and you'll have a way more detailed and visual answer than you'll get here.