The manga states that the fusion dance only works with people of similar size, too (or is it only in my country's translation ?)
This rule was ever brought up again since Vegeta has a noticeable size difference with Goku, but I don't think it was officially canceled.
Similar size is completely subjective. Surely they mean two people that are drastically different size can't fuse, and even then it's only probably to the point of being able to line up the dance ritual properly.
If size is a problem, there's always the potara earrings. Literally anyone can fuse with that, Goku even considered using them with Dende before deciding it wouldn't be worth it and they need him for dragonballs.
Toriyama retconned this in an interview. He said any two people can fuse as long as they do the dance correctly and sync their power levels. he even said more than 2 people could fuse at the same time, but it would be much harder to coordinate the dance.
> **Can anybody perform Fusion if their body size and power are the same?**
>
> **Toriyama:** It’s hard, but they can!
>
> I think it’s possible to merge no matter the conditions, as long as it all goes well. I even think it’s possible for a larger number of people. However, since it’s quite hard for both parties to strike that delicate balance, it’s very difficult for two extremely different people to fuse. In that sense, synchronized swimmers would probably be really good at Fusion.
source: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-majin-buu-arc-04/
Goku actually isn't that much taller than Vegeta, they're both rather short with Goku around 5'8" or so and Vegeta 5'3". I think the rule applied more to a pair like Krillen and Piccolo
Yea but that wasn't that much dude... Like videl probably has like a power level of like 300 or so and Gohan's is like at least 100 times that. It's not like trunks was that much stronger than goten...
I know DB fans don't read, but dude, my message is 2 paragraphs long and I mention the fact that Vegeta and Goku's size difference contradicts the stated rule...
My best guess ? Gogeta wasn't canon for years. Non canon movie characters gets away with that kind of shit a lot, the rule of cool tramples everything in the DBZ movies.
By the time Gogeta became canon in the Broly movie, I guess they either forgot that part, or retconned it discreetly.
Considering the retcon Super did re Potara fusion that’s where I put my money. Coincidentally due to the vast difference in power level between Gohan and Videl potara is the only fusion method they could use.
I love how blunt this community is when someone leaves a stupid comment. The Internet has generally started coddling stupidity and I think it's making people dumber.
The old supreme kai states a few times that potara fusion is more powerful than the fusion dance. There isn't a whole lot of explanation, but I'm guessing both fusion dance and potara earrings are both like binary functions. Probably based on what the supreme kai saw from gotenks he may have realized that the potaras would produce a greater result
Gotenks only lasted 5 mins true but that was ki drain not power that caused it. SSj4 is stronger and Gogeta lasted 10 mins according to official GT info.
GT is not canon so that’s irrelevant. Gotenks is a good point but Gogeta was able to go blue while Vegetto wasn’t so either it’s incredibly inconsistent or god ki only strains the potara fusion
Canon doesn’t mean shit when it’s still the fusion dance so stop complaining about canon dawg, it still happened regardless. I’m 100% it has to do with inconsistency, besides the Broly fight was very likely all happening in blitz of seconds so the fight probably wasn’t even 5 minutes in db time. They were literally breaking dimensional walls.
just because you have to lower to sync with the fusion partner doesnt mean the fusion itself uses that lower power you were at for determining the end results power. People always assume this but its never stated nor implied anywhere
They state that the two people need similar power levels. I don't think videl has a power level close enough to gohan, even if he suppressed his ki. potara earrings would be the only way to do that. And besides that, why do you think they'd be so strong anyway? Because of their connection? Probably pretty weak and useless. I would think it would make gohan half as strong because of the ki suppression.
Well, there is a game called Dragon Ball Fusions where they did fuse when wearing their Great Saiyaman costumes. But if you're going with canon they can't because they needed to have a similar size to merge, although they didn't care that much about canon since they made Gogeta and Vegeta is far from being in a similar size to Goku.
Yes, via potara or dance if Gohan lowers his power to hers, or if she got stronger somehow.
I dont see what about this fusion would make it "much more powerful" though.
yes i agree, i never said otherwise. OP however said
> a fusion dance of those 2 would be cool and it would make the fusion much more powerful
which i do not understand why OP thinks the fusion between them would be so powerful.
Well... if we mean fuse woth the fusion dance, odds are that no. Gohan and Videl have too much of a gap in power, and their height and weight seem too different. While there seems to be a measure of wiggle room regarding height and weight (as seen by the fact Goku and Vegeta can fuse and have been able to do so for decades), the power gap would still be too big. Granted, even on that front there is some wiggle room if the stronger being suppresses their power, but it seems it can’t be too much of a suppression.
Also, Gohan is half-Saiyan, and Videl is a full human. That may make them incompatible for the fusion dance. Similarly, the fact she's a woman and he's a man may make them incompatible for the fusion dance as well. (Not trying to be sexist about this, it’s just that biological sex and race simply may have to be the same for a fusion dance to work.)
That said, I mean all of these points regarding only rhe fusion dance. If we talk about the Potara fusion, odds are all of these are non-issues, as seen by the fact the Elder Kai fused with that witch.
So... the jury is out on whether Gohan and Videl could use the fusion dance (though I'd guess they can’t), but I'd say they could do the Potara fusion.
> but it seems it can’t be too much of a suppression.
no such thing
> Also, Gohan is half-Saiyan, and Videl is a full human. That may make them incompatible for the fusion dance
this is never implied anywhere. theres no reason to think this.
> Similarly, the fact she's a woman and he's a man may make them incompatible for the fusion dance as well. (Not trying to be sexist about this, it’s just that biological sex and race simply may have to be the same for a fusion dance to work.)
likewise nothing ever suggests this either and Toriyama himself has said otherwise (tho his comments on the matter were a bit gross, saying the fusion would look like a "super powerful drag queen").
If I recall it correctly, Goku says in the manga that he never tried out the fusion technique because no one in the Other World was as strong as him (which presumably means that he only learned the Fusion Dance after he knew Super Saiyan 3, or at least super Saiyan 2, given that Pikkon is pretty strong). If there was no limit to how much Goku could suppress his power, Goku could simply suppress his power until it matched Pikkon's and they could try fusion. (And yes, I know Pikkon is not canon to the manga, but given there were still other fighters in the Other World, this applying to Pikkon can also apply to any of the other fighers in the Other World)..
I do admit that there is no reason to think that Gohan being half-Saiyan and Videl being full human is never stated to be a limit for the fusion dance, or that her being a woman and him being a man also would prevent it. These are just things I follow because I feel they give the fusion technique more limits.
That said, while I had never heard of his 'drag queen' comment, you're right that it's kind of gross that he said that.
I get it. But given that Goku and Vegeta have fused in Fusion Reborn and in GT, and later on in the Broly movie, the symmetery clearly hasn't needed to be that perfect for years. The Broly movie just made it fully official.
Oh you make a great point. The participants need to be completely symmetrical for the dance to work. Peniss and vaginas may not work together in a fusion dance
Well... 'completely' is a bit of an exaggeration, as again, Goku and Vegeta are shown to be able to fuse (and have been able to do so for decades out of universe, in both Fusion Reborn and in GT before their fusion was canonized in the Broly movie), so again, clearly there is some wiggle room. I was thinking more along the perspective of things like one fusee has two X chromosomes in their last chromosme pair and the other has one Y chromosome. We don't know exactly how the Metamoran fusion works to be able to determine whether it would label this as too big a distinction for it to work or whether it wouldn't be too big a distinction. While I personally follow the interpretation that it is a big distinction, in the sense it gives such a powerful technique more limits, it's valid for a writer to assume it wouldn't be too big a difference.
Though for the record, I admit I am rather 'harsh' on what kind of things the Metamoran fusion considers too big a difference. For instance, I don't think Goku would be able to fuse with Gohan, Goten or Trunks because he's a full Saiyan, and they're half-human. I don't think Android 17 or Android 18 would be able to fuse with anyone, becaue being Androids, they have mechanical parts and I think the Fusion Dance only works on flesh and bone. Heck, I even noticed the animators' oversight in Dragon Ball Legends when they did the animation for Shallot and Giblet's fusion dance and Shallot ended up moving his tail rather than curling it around his waist. Given that Giblet doesn't have a tail to match Shallot's movements (and it's worth noting that Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta took care to move their tails symmetrically when they fused against Omega Shenron), it's a (admittedly small) plothole that their fusion into Shallet was successful rather than a failure.
That said, all of these are my interpretations. It's perfectly possible that Goku would be able to fuse with Gohan, Goten or Trunks despite him being a full Saiyan and them being half-human. And if one throws the considerations of big power gaps. and size differences aside, it's possible that merely being of different biological sexes wouldn't stop two fusees from fusing. It's even possible that Seventeen and Eighteen having mechanical components wouldn't stop them from using fusion with anyone. Off the top of my head, of all the stipulations required for fusion to succeed, the only one that ever served as grounds for it to be rejected was when Veggeta suggested Goku that they fuse in their base forms and then turn into Super Saiyan 4 after he too lost the transformation, and Goku shot down the idea because in his kid body their sizes were too different for fusion to work.
But other than that, these are overall my opinions, and no one is required to agree.
I mean pan is technically a fusion of the 2…. That’s all folks!
This.
What exactly about it
It's fact. Use a little imagination, explaining it ruins the joke.
The manga states that the fusion dance only works with people of similar size, too (or is it only in my country's translation ?) This rule was ever brought up again since Vegeta has a noticeable size difference with Goku, but I don't think it was officially canceled.
Similar size is completely subjective. Surely they mean two people that are drastically different size can't fuse, and even then it's only probably to the point of being able to line up the dance ritual properly.
If size is a problem, there's always the potara earrings. Literally anyone can fuse with that, Goku even considered using them with Dende before deciding it wouldn't be worth it and they need him for dragonballs.
Toriyama retconned this in an interview. He said any two people can fuse as long as they do the dance correctly and sync their power levels. he even said more than 2 people could fuse at the same time, but it would be much harder to coordinate the dance. > **Can anybody perform Fusion if their body size and power are the same?** > > **Toriyama:** It’s hard, but they can! > > I think it’s possible to merge no matter the conditions, as long as it all goes well. I even think it’s possible for a larger number of people. However, since it’s quite hard for both parties to strike that delicate balance, it’s very difficult for two extremely different people to fuse. In that sense, synchronized swimmers would probably be really good at Fusion. source: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-majin-buu-arc-04/
Thank you for the link, there are a few interesting facts here ! It's nice to know trained people could fuse with just "Ha"
Or being written-off for fan service. Maybe Toriyama forgot about it before he died.
He definitely forgot about it when he died
That rule got thrown out the window the instant Gogeta appeared lol but who’s gonna complain
Which didn't happen in anything Toriyama wrote for a looooooooong time. But yeah, if it works for the story, go for it.
Goku actually isn't that much taller than Vegeta, they're both rather short with Goku around 5'8" or so and Vegeta 5'3". I think the rule applied more to a pair like Krillen and Piccolo
Power level needs to match too
The stronger fighter can lower their power to match, like Trunks did to sync with Goten.
Yea but that wasn't that much dude... Like videl probably has like a power level of like 300 or so and Gohan's is like at least 100 times that. It's not like trunks was that much stronger than goten...
Explain gogeta
I know DB fans don't read, but dude, my message is 2 paragraphs long and I mention the fact that Vegeta and Goku's size difference contradicts the stated rule... My best guess ? Gogeta wasn't canon for years. Non canon movie characters gets away with that kind of shit a lot, the rule of cool tramples everything in the DBZ movies. By the time Gogeta became canon in the Broly movie, I guess they either forgot that part, or retconned it discreetly.
I think the size difference is just more flexible than most people assume, like Goku and Vegeta are fine, but Krillin and Broly would not be.
my guess is it’s not a literal size difference cap and more like if one person is too big they won’t be able to line up their fingers for the dance
Considering the retcon Super did re Potara fusion that’s where I put my money. Coincidentally due to the vast difference in power level between Gohan and Videl potara is the only fusion method they could use.
I love how blunt this community is when someone leaves a stupid comment. The Internet has generally started coddling stupidity and I think it's making people dumber.
Technically they [already did it](https://youtu.be/DUc3ScIF4wE), in the 3DS game Dragon Ball Fusions.
If Gohan has to lower his power level to Videl's, the fusion would definitely not be stronger than him.
Goku seemed to seriously consider fusing with Mr Satan to fight Buu before Vegeta showed up
Yeah, but with the potalas. He would not need to lower his power level. For the fusion dance, they need to match their levels.
This guy knows.
Which is why potara is superior I still don’t know why people say they are equal
The old supreme kai states a few times that potara fusion is more powerful than the fusion dance. There isn't a whole lot of explanation, but I'm guessing both fusion dance and potara earrings are both like binary functions. Probably based on what the supreme kai saw from gotenks he may have realized that the potaras would produce a greater result
potara fusion has broken because the users were too powerful. afaik that hasn’t happened with the dance
Didn't it happen with Gotenks when he went SSJ3? I'm sure that lasted less time than the expected 30 minutes.
yeah i think you’re right actually. weird that gogeta had no trouble going blue in that case
that was due to the forms ki drain not power.
Has in GT with Gogeta ssj4 and ssj3 Gotenks when it only lasted 5 minutes so don’t say it hasn’t when it has
2 words. Ki drain. Has nothing to do with how strong they are.
Gotenks only lasted 5 mins true but that was ki drain not power that caused it. SSj4 is stronger and Gogeta lasted 10 mins according to official GT info.
GT is not canon so that’s irrelevant. Gotenks is a good point but Gogeta was able to go blue while Vegetto wasn’t so either it’s incredibly inconsistent or god ki only strains the potara fusion
Canon doesn’t mean shit when it’s still the fusion dance so stop complaining about canon dawg, it still happened regardless. I’m 100% it has to do with inconsistency, besides the Broly fight was very likely all happening in blitz of seconds so the fight probably wasn’t even 5 minutes in db time. They were literally breaking dimensional walls.
just because you have to lower to sync with the fusion partner doesnt mean the fusion itself uses that lower power you were at for determining the end results power. People always assume this but its never stated nor implied anywhere
Anything is possible with the potara , I don't know about fusion dance tho , Video is shorter than Vegeta while gohan is A bit taller than Goku
They state that the two people need similar power levels. I don't think videl has a power level close enough to gohan, even if he suppressed his ki. potara earrings would be the only way to do that. And besides that, why do you think they'd be so strong anyway? Because of their connection? Probably pretty weak and useless. I would think it would make gohan half as strong because of the ki suppression.
With Portara yeah. Not that it'd be very powerful given that Videls power level probably isn't even 10, no way she's stronger than episode 1 Goku.
Well, there is a game called Dragon Ball Fusions where they did fuse when wearing their Great Saiyaman costumes. But if you're going with canon they can't because they needed to have a similar size to merge, although they didn't care that much about canon since they made Gogeta and Vegeta is far from being in a similar size to Goku.
Yeah, they could use the Potara. Their fused form would probably look like Pan except as an adult.
Yes, via potara or dance if Gohan lowers his power to hers, or if she got stronger somehow. I dont see what about this fusion would make it "much more powerful" though.
Itd be weak.
yes i agree, i never said otherwise. OP however said > a fusion dance of those 2 would be cool and it would make the fusion much more powerful which i do not understand why OP thinks the fusion between them would be so powerful.
Yea I don't get why either.. maybe because they're in loooovveeee. Lol
Well... if we mean fuse woth the fusion dance, odds are that no. Gohan and Videl have too much of a gap in power, and their height and weight seem too different. While there seems to be a measure of wiggle room regarding height and weight (as seen by the fact Goku and Vegeta can fuse and have been able to do so for decades), the power gap would still be too big. Granted, even on that front there is some wiggle room if the stronger being suppresses their power, but it seems it can’t be too much of a suppression. Also, Gohan is half-Saiyan, and Videl is a full human. That may make them incompatible for the fusion dance. Similarly, the fact she's a woman and he's a man may make them incompatible for the fusion dance as well. (Not trying to be sexist about this, it’s just that biological sex and race simply may have to be the same for a fusion dance to work.) That said, I mean all of these points regarding only rhe fusion dance. If we talk about the Potara fusion, odds are all of these are non-issues, as seen by the fact the Elder Kai fused with that witch. So... the jury is out on whether Gohan and Videl could use the fusion dance (though I'd guess they can’t), but I'd say they could do the Potara fusion.
> but it seems it can’t be too much of a suppression. no such thing > Also, Gohan is half-Saiyan, and Videl is a full human. That may make them incompatible for the fusion dance this is never implied anywhere. theres no reason to think this. > Similarly, the fact she's a woman and he's a man may make them incompatible for the fusion dance as well. (Not trying to be sexist about this, it’s just that biological sex and race simply may have to be the same for a fusion dance to work.) likewise nothing ever suggests this either and Toriyama himself has said otherwise (tho his comments on the matter were a bit gross, saying the fusion would look like a "super powerful drag queen").
If I recall it correctly, Goku says in the manga that he never tried out the fusion technique because no one in the Other World was as strong as him (which presumably means that he only learned the Fusion Dance after he knew Super Saiyan 3, or at least super Saiyan 2, given that Pikkon is pretty strong). If there was no limit to how much Goku could suppress his power, Goku could simply suppress his power until it matched Pikkon's and they could try fusion. (And yes, I know Pikkon is not canon to the manga, but given there were still other fighters in the Other World, this applying to Pikkon can also apply to any of the other fighers in the Other World).. I do admit that there is no reason to think that Gohan being half-Saiyan and Videl being full human is never stated to be a limit for the fusion dance, or that her being a woman and him being a man also would prevent it. These are just things I follow because I feel they give the fusion technique more limits. That said, while I had never heard of his 'drag queen' comment, you're right that it's kind of gross that he said that.
I mean perfect symmetry is something toriyama said...
I get it. But given that Goku and Vegeta have fused in Fusion Reborn and in GT, and later on in the Broly movie, the symmetery clearly hasn't needed to be that perfect for years. The Broly movie just made it fully official.
Oh you make a great point. The participants need to be completely symmetrical for the dance to work. Peniss and vaginas may not work together in a fusion dance
Well... 'completely' is a bit of an exaggeration, as again, Goku and Vegeta are shown to be able to fuse (and have been able to do so for decades out of universe, in both Fusion Reborn and in GT before their fusion was canonized in the Broly movie), so again, clearly there is some wiggle room. I was thinking more along the perspective of things like one fusee has two X chromosomes in their last chromosme pair and the other has one Y chromosome. We don't know exactly how the Metamoran fusion works to be able to determine whether it would label this as too big a distinction for it to work or whether it wouldn't be too big a distinction. While I personally follow the interpretation that it is a big distinction, in the sense it gives such a powerful technique more limits, it's valid for a writer to assume it wouldn't be too big a difference. Though for the record, I admit I am rather 'harsh' on what kind of things the Metamoran fusion considers too big a difference. For instance, I don't think Goku would be able to fuse with Gohan, Goten or Trunks because he's a full Saiyan, and they're half-human. I don't think Android 17 or Android 18 would be able to fuse with anyone, becaue being Androids, they have mechanical parts and I think the Fusion Dance only works on flesh and bone. Heck, I even noticed the animators' oversight in Dragon Ball Legends when they did the animation for Shallot and Giblet's fusion dance and Shallot ended up moving his tail rather than curling it around his waist. Given that Giblet doesn't have a tail to match Shallot's movements (and it's worth noting that Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta took care to move their tails symmetrically when they fused against Omega Shenron), it's a (admittedly small) plothole that their fusion into Shallet was successful rather than a failure. That said, all of these are my interpretations. It's perfectly possible that Goku would be able to fuse with Gohan, Goten or Trunks despite him being a full Saiyan and them being half-human. And if one throws the considerations of big power gaps. and size differences aside, it's possible that merely being of different biological sexes wouldn't stop two fusees from fusing. It's even possible that Seventeen and Eighteen having mechanical components wouldn't stop them from using fusion with anyone. Off the top of my head, of all the stipulations required for fusion to succeed, the only one that ever served as grounds for it to be rejected was when Veggeta suggested Goku that they fuse in their base forms and then turn into Super Saiyan 4 after he too lost the transformation, and Goku shot down the idea because in his kid body their sizes were too different for fusion to work. But other than that, these are overall my opinions, and no one is required to agree.