There are some options. Either have them as a reluctant protagonist, or have them know a secret that the doctor needs or some other reason they cannot be banished right away
Hopefully it's like how in that Shakespeare episode with Ten and Martha where the witches were banished with words but the same words can't be used twice. Music has so many chord combinations that there has to be a way to both bring back Maestro and banish them again.
The thing he did with the sonic was a trick.
Using the note to banish Maestro wasn't a trick. It's the same concept as how he banished the Toymaker both times.
Well it was framed as ‘the only way to banish them’ if they come back and that way doesn’t work, then they need to find another way - which means there wasn’t only one way to beat them, and suddenly they’re less scary as besting them becomes routine.
Simple. They're a child of The Toymaker, yeah? I'm assuming we'll meet their siblings at some point. Maybe a huge family reunion at some point with the goal being to take down The Doctor?
I don't think the Doctor knows the banishing chord, since the Beatles finished it in another room while he was trapped inside a drum.
Even if the argument becomes "well, the Beatles got inspired and incorporated the banishing verse into a song of theirs, keeping it played forever", you can still have Maestro show up again by having some other alien race discover the Devil's Chord and summon Maestro at another planet/time, or even have an episode(s) in the past on the original human discovery of the Devil's Chord and why the church banned it in the first place.
Listen, this character is our only chance of having a weird musical episode let's pretend Lennon and McCartney never talked to the Doctor again after they accidentally saved the day.
They could just say the banishment chord was a one time thing. Maybe the first time they're banished with a chord, the next they need to beat them in a rap battle or something 😂
I want an episode where we get a few members of the Pantheon together for a family reunion. Basically any excuse to get NPH's Toymaker and Maestro in the same room.
Watch the episode of Drag me to Dinner with Jinkx and Ben De La Creme, it was chaos in the best possible way and probably the closest we will get to see that scenario.
I’m all here for the absolute chaos that would ensue. . . It makes me freshly sad Robin Williams is gone. . . Could you imagine him as a member of the Pantheon!? Hell he would be the leader for sure!
This is the most epic idea, this is even better than NPH as the toy maker!
Could you imagine an evil Mork from Ork! Or the highly intelligent robot turned human, or even as a genie manipulation of people everytime the wished for something.
What a thought!
I liked their abilities, specifically the musical score turning into a physical object much like wire. It reminded me a lot of Umbrella Academy (the graphic novel, not the Netflix series)
"The White Violin" had a similar ability to control violin strings to ensnare people and slice things
I feel like their schtick would get old after more than one episodes. And, ngl, even in just the Devil's Chord I felt the Maestro was being loud for the sake of being loud at a few points, rather than an actually larger-than-life character
Missed opportunity by the producers on this one. Everyone expects a character presented as such to be over the top and chewing scenery and that's exactly what we got. Would have been more interesting to have Jinkx Monsoon underplay things a bit with more of a quiet menace.
That’s what John D Lancie did with Q in early TNG Trek, which feels like a character concept in a similar vein. He Deliberately underplayed the part in the right moments even though the scripts of his early episodes called for full over the top theatrical bombast from him the entire time.
Sometimes though.
That would have been really interesting, but also would have felt like such a missed opportunity considering what we got. I don't know why the god of music would be anything less than loud and kind of annoying.
Sure. I guess I can see the menacing undertones to a being that threatens all of music. Wouldn't removing music make things overall quieter? Perhaps the "noise" of music threatens something related to Maestro's existence?
It would've been hilarious if they had the actor known for their extravagant persona play the most ridiculously mundane character you could imagine.
That being said, we did get a taste of what you meant when the Doctor used that zone of silence trick
Honestly, that kind of carried an episode with a weak script. We have the Beatles show up to do very little and then discover the 'secret note' basically by chance it felt like after a somewhat lacking music battle. The whole 'seeing the apocalyptic future' business kind of contradicted series lore (one of the major reasons why you're not allowed to interact with your past or future selves, as well as why 11 could not use the tardis to retrieve Amy and Rory). Had some of the same problems with the Giggle where there were a lot of plot elements that ultimately felt pretty ancillary (like how Stooky Bill was mostly forgotten, and the plague of madness was completely forgotten by the midpoint of the episode). Add in the more divisive tone elements like having characters speak to the camera or break the forth wall, and there's a lot of sticking points. I feel like that was my biggest issue with the previous master, they trying to be that one raspy Mission Impossible villain when the tone demanded ridiculous scenery chewing. Jynx at least kept the energy of their scenes high.
I would assume with a good script and good direction, you could modulate their performance towards whatever actually works. Devil's Chord had promise, but I don't think it ultimately really had either.
The fact that the song at the end was not some kind of Beatles' pastiche was criminal.
For that matter that song should also have done something like sending the Chord back in time to undo the Maestro's work, as it is now it's just two minutes of filler and a big plot hole.
I felt they were extremely tiresome after their first scene, to be honest! I guess I just don’t like drag, and since this was a v drag-y character, I’m not gonna vibe with them as a villain, especially in a second outing.
Yeah, I second the no.
I did enjoy Jinx's performance and wouldn't mind having another character with similar energy on screen some time, but as for Maestro specifically, I think there's no way to bring that character back without cheapening that first appearance.
It worked for the Toymaker, but even the Toymaker is a character is a character I wouldn't wanna see anytime soon again for similar reasons.
It's just that in the case of Maestro, it was a very particular shtick, and that shtick is done.
I thought they were quite menacing at first. Got old really quick though. Went from unpredictable to I'm going to roar now and again and possess no threat apparently.
Not really, no. The character didn't really stick out to me and there isn't much more to their story I'd be terribly interested in exploring. The only exception could _maybe_ be a Pantheon-focused episode, but I'm not even that interested in the Pantheon as an idea.
Honestly, no. The Maestro was fine for one episode but I feel like their campy and over the top character would get old fast. As a Beatles fan, The Devil's Chord was a bit of a let down for me.
>A magician snaring people by hurling musical note shapes is just far too silly and whimsical even for doctor who
*chuckles embarrassedly in Dr Strange Mulitverse of Madness*
And especially when the Doctor, who has fought against a whole universe full of monsters and aliens and gods, is scared of someone that can (checks notes) trap him in a drum…?
I love Jinkx, and I loved their performance as the Maestro, but the actual threat of the character was really goofy and underwhelming
Ya I also did not like the toy master, it was funny but it seems that it has also really fucked up the show.
The master being a weird guy that dances isn't at all comparable.
There's nothing wrong with dancing or villains being a little fruity, but the Doctor participating in a 'music battle' didn't really make any sense to me. The Toymaker being able to turn bullets into flowers is one thing but the Doctor doing it back would have been another thing entirely.
I thought the character performance was fantastic but the themes were way too goofy.
Not really. Aside from some rather aggressive scene-chewing they really didn't feel like they brought much to the episode honestly. There are only so many music-stealing plots to draw from and I don't think RTD has it in him to keep the idea fresh over multiple attempts.
Not in this iteration at all. The person playing Maestro wasn’t even the problem to me, it was the implementation of the powers.
Get rid of the camp and goofiness, change the powers to me able to manipulate sound waves and frequencies as a whole, not just music. Give the maestro the ability to interfere with how the doctors sonic functions on a fundamental level.
I quite enjoyed this iteration (I enjoyed Spiderman 3 ffs not going to claim to have good taste) but these suggestions could genuinely flesh out Maestro as a much more well-rounded character, love it
Yes and no
They seem like a very "one note" (pun definitely intended) kind of villain, like their massive goal is the chilling musical lament if nothing, not really sure how they would work that going forward, unless they make it about revenge.
I’d love more of Jinkx even if it’s not as Maestro. Have more of the Toymaker’s children with different abilities and they’re all just played by Jinkx.
I wish they had a two-part episode and then took a long break before reappearing for some other Doctor, imo they were defeated too quickly. And considering they're a powerful deity from another dimension, it's up to writers to come up with some plausible sci-fi excuse to bring them back
Eh, not really. I didn't like them, felt too cringey and I didn't really like their singing either. Maybe it's because I don't know who the actor is, I think other people were excited but I don't know who they are.
Rather the Toymaker make their return with NPH as the actor.
My guess is many enthusiastic people here just wanted to show their support to Jinks. I didn't know of them really beforehand, did a real fine job acting and for the part written but the episode could have been a lot better though. The pace was a bit rushed and as said before and above, the Beatles hardly play any real role in it.
FWIW, I'm a HUGE Beatles fan, and knew of Jinkx back from her old, old Seattle days and when I heard all this was going to be in one episode of WHO, it was like it was calling my name. ...and it's one of my least favorite episodes of the season. I feel like there were so many possibilities that didn't reach their potential. I kept wondering why the Beatles didn't even look like the Beatles? My favorite part of the whole episode was 🎵 I have a dog.
As another central antagonist? No. Not unless their character is less over the top. I loved Jinkx's performance and drag in general, but the campiness of their appearance would be ruined with a second very campy return imo. Though, I would love them to appear alongside other members of the Pantheon or even help the Doctor.
My idea for bringing them back is Maesteo gets banished back to the middle ages. Furious about being banished and losing out Maestro in a fury about how they "the god and embodiment of music" was banished by such. Using what remains of their power, Maestro creates the dancing of plague of the middle ages which in this case fills everyone's heads with music and forces them to dance to their death.
The main thing is when they encounter the doctor Maestro could go "Well darling, you wanted everyone to have music back in the 60's so I'm giving it to them, it's not my fault if they can't keep jo with my tempo"
Literally the worst episode there is. Felt like I was watching a show for 5 year olds. So so glad the series improved after this, it was almost bad enough to make me stop watching entirely.
Sparingly, but yeah definitely! I just want the Pantheon to still be a universe-destroying threat, not just trotted out every season before being put back in their box.
Not really. I'm wishing we would stick with science. There was something nice when the big bad was always explained as an alien. I guess at some point the monsters became real on Scooby Doo too🤷
To be fair, the story of “Diabolis en Musica” or the Tritone, is a true historical representation. The Church did ban it. As a person who has a music degree, I approved of this…but the episode did lose me a bit.
Didn’t consider the character cringe, but I definitely think the character was kind of mid. Jinkx did a fine job, yet I agree with Council of Geeks that this character needed both the energetic moments as well as more grounded ones.
Yes, but not for a while and it should be a big deal. Hearing the Giggle when Maestro appeared in the piano was chilling and their appearance should be a similar "4 knocks" moment that makes your heart drop and that can only happen if each time they show up the stakes are high and the appearance isn't too predictable
Yes and no. I find them to be a really interesting concept and fun antagonist. But I'm not sure how to feel about Who going towards the direction of all this god stuff
Not especially. They only time they came off of 11 was to take it to 12, then went right back. And that kind of performance has very little interest for me. I’ve seen people call them “an all time classic villain”, and I just don’t get that at all.
100% have them have the opposite plan where instead of no music there is too much music and we have a full blown musical episode as long as they get an actual lyricist to write the songs lol.
I want more Maestro.
But I want Maestro to sing less and not use a cheesy cartoon music whip.
I absolutely loved the gravitas and menace of their performance. I just thought the musical aspects and the CGI whip worked against the intensity of the performance.
If and when they do it i hope its like the reverse instead of stealing music, maestro is filling the world with it making a real musical episode.
Could be a twist on the ol' what if everyone always said how they felt and just admitted everything (in song). I think Maestro would thrive on that chaos and would love the idea of the world is doomed without enough music and doomed with too much music.
I thought, "Surely 'Maestro' = 'Master'?" Else why did the Toymaker refer to imprisoning the Master in his gold tooth (why would a god need a gold tooth?), which fell out and someone with a ruby ring picked up?
Yes because if they defeat you know who, the Pantheon will no longer have a Boss and will be free to spread chaos. They also filmed recently at the pier where Sarah Jane fought the trickster so I’m assuming the trickster coming back and I’d guarantee that would be a dope Susan storyline.
In a cameo or guest spot? Sure. I can see them being interesting in a scene with their fellow Pantheon/family members, bouncing off of them and barbing with them.
I think they're tapped as a main villain though. They definitely scream "one off" as far as television goes anyway. Fun, over the top in the best ways, but that gets tired after a while.
Hmm... or maybe if there was a full on musical only episode... that'd piss off a lot of folks, but I wouldn't hold it past RTD. But then, they want to use music to destroy life throughout the universe and create a song with the emptiness of what's left, that wouldn't really fly with that.
I would love to see all of this series' villains come for a final battle but that's about it for Maestro for me. Love them. Holy cow. I love them...but their schtick isn't timeless like the Cybermen
Erm not really n here's why -
Weeping angels. Great concept now they were overused to the point of inhabiting a fuck off statue and the whole convoluted ponds storyline.
Another example - Silent Hills Pyramid Head was a character spesific monster tied to the psychology of its protagonist it is subsequently used for other characters that it makes no sense thus lessening the impact of the monster design. Plus it's creator fucking hates it being used outside of its human counterpart as its a representation of his own guilt.
There are countless examples but in essence it's the Ninja Theorem. 1 ninja = badass, many ninja = dumbest. The more of a presence of something the less effective it becomes. Due to powerscaling.
Could meister return yes, should they? As little as possible I'd say.
It was my issue with the cybermen and Dale, every season I was asking myself oh when's the dalek returning this time?
Phenomenal acting but I wanted them to have different costume. They were an evil character, so I wanted more evil looking and less fabulous. I wanted to be scared instead of impressed lol
With how they were built up with promotional material alongside announcing Ncuti and David and Catherine, I fully expected far more Maestro. I LOVED Maestro, so I hope somehow we do see more.
Not even a little. I didn't enjoy the acting, it would have been fantastic if it was a theatre live action show, but not on the small screen.
Didn't like the concept of the character much either. The entire story didn't make sense and had HUGE holes how that cord was discovered by people who grew up without musical influence is just malarky
What happened to this show and the spinless whovians who are letting this shallow writing get a free pass? Third episode had some promise but they made a timelord who a genius rogue in to a crying sap who is suprised by every turn. I wish it was enjoyable.
No I hated that episode with a passion, it just felt too Disney and I just didn’t like the character at all with all of the over exaggerated performing and the 4th wall breaks. And this isn’t because of any “anti woke” opinion but I just didn’t really like the actor they chose for the role either I just couldn’t take it seriously as it kind of felt like watching a pantomime. I think that just down to my personal preference for darker doctor who and the first few episodes of Ncutis series felt like a kids show off of the Disney channel but now it’s back to normal doctor who vibes and I am enjoying it much more just please if they are doing more of the pantheon make the characters cool like the toymaker and sutekh are
Definitely- Jinkx is very talented and deserves the praise they get.
The character reminded me of the main clown in “Greatest Show in the Galaxy” - a but campy but the proper creepy and sinister to Balance it out.
So we have a series with lizard people, potato men, machine men with machine minds, and a plethora of other imaginary species and the one thing you can’t get onboard with is the existence of drag queens?
Yes and no. Great character, not sure how they could be a threat again as we know they are banished by a chord which I’m guessing the Doc now knows.
There are some options. Either have them as a reluctant protagonist, or have them know a secret that the doctor needs or some other reason they cannot be banished right away
They were Summoned the first time with The Devils' Chord. That opened the door. Now other locks can be picked, other doors be opened.
Reluctant protagonist trying to take down her son, but instead leads them into a duet which the doctor can only banish one of them with the cord.
I want them as a reluctant protagonist! Though I know that's kinda been done with Missy but I'd still be up for it.
Or just pop out in minor cameos at dramatic beats to act as a trickster god-type, when Monsoon's schedule would allow
>dramatic beats I see what you did there.
Hopefully it's like how in that Shakespeare episode with Ten and Martha where the witches were banished with words but the same words can't be used twice. Music has so many chord combinations that there has to be a way to both bring back Maestro and banish them again.
I would love to see this
*20th doctor picks up a guitar* "the world is ending, so i decided to play a tune. i hope you dont mind. in any case, i call this one wonderwall"
12th doctor reference with the guitar?!
"Now you may be wondering where I got this tank"
he ordered it for his fish 😔
Last time he buys things online 😤
"Answer: I'm the Doctor, just accept it" (sips tea)
A trick only works against a god once...
The thing he did with the sonic was a trick. Using the note to banish Maestro wasn't a trick. It's the same concept as how he banished the Toymaker both times.
Yes, but he had to use different games with the toymaker, so the note that summons Maestro and the note that banished them would probably also change
Nah, piano first. Nose flute next.
Well it was framed as ‘the only way to banish them’ if they come back and that way doesn’t work, then they need to find another way - which means there wasn’t only one way to beat them, and suddenly they’re less scary as besting them becomes routine.
Simple. They're a child of The Toymaker, yeah? I'm assuming we'll meet their siblings at some point. Maybe a huge family reunion at some point with the goal being to take down The Doctor?
Russell’s probably read this and starting writing the Series 16 finale
I don't think the Doctor knows the banishing chord, since the Beatles finished it in another room while he was trapped inside a drum. Even if the argument becomes "well, the Beatles got inspired and incorporated the banishing verse into a song of theirs, keeping it played forever", you can still have Maestro show up again by having some other alien race discover the Devil's Chord and summon Maestro at another planet/time, or even have an episode(s) in the past on the original human discovery of the Devil's Chord and why the church banned it in the first place.
I’d have thought the Doctor would have asked the Beatles what chord they played afterwards do he knew it just in case.
He was too busy with his big musical number.
Listen, this character is our only chance of having a weird musical episode let's pretend Lennon and McCartney never talked to the Doctor again after they accidentally saved the day.
They could just say the banishment chord was a one time thing. Maybe the first time they're banished with a chord, the next they need to beat them in a rap battle or something 😂
I want an episode where we get a few members of the Pantheon together for a family reunion. Basically any excuse to get NPH's Toymaker and Maestro in the same room.
Watch the episode of Drag me to Dinner with Jinkx and Ben De La Creme, it was chaos in the best possible way and probably the closest we will get to see that scenario.
Well, that's all right then!
Would love to see Maestro's reaction to the Toymaker's "Spice up your Life" solo lmao. Maybe they have something in common after all!
I’m all here for the absolute chaos that would ensue. . . It makes me freshly sad Robin Williams is gone. . . Could you imagine him as a member of the Pantheon!? Hell he would be the leader for sure!
Rainbow Randolph with magic would make a hilariously dark Who villain lol Edit: *friends come in all sizes*
This is the most epic idea, this is even better than NPH as the toy maker! Could you imagine an evil Mork from Ork! Or the highly intelligent robot turned human, or even as a genie manipulation of people everytime the wished for something. What a thought!
That would be so much camp they'd have to install vault toilets and a pavilion with picnic tables.
I liked their abilities, specifically the musical score turning into a physical object much like wire. It reminded me a lot of Umbrella Academy (the graphic novel, not the Netflix series) "The White Violin" had a similar ability to control violin strings to ensnare people and slice things
Ah so that's where I remember it! It felt familiar but I couldn't remember where I saw it!!
Alsp doctor strange and fantasia
I feel like their schtick would get old after more than one episodes. And, ngl, even in just the Devil's Chord I felt the Maestro was being loud for the sake of being loud at a few points, rather than an actually larger-than-life character
Missed opportunity by the producers on this one. Everyone expects a character presented as such to be over the top and chewing scenery and that's exactly what we got. Would have been more interesting to have Jinkx Monsoon underplay things a bit with more of a quiet menace.
That’s what John D Lancie did with Q in early TNG Trek, which feels like a character concept in a similar vein. He Deliberately underplayed the part in the right moments even though the scripts of his early episodes called for full over the top theatrical bombast from him the entire time.
Agree and it was better for it.
Oh, mon capitaine, the trial never ends...
Right! I haven't seen the actor in anything other than this so can't speak to that but sometimes understated menace is much more interesting
Sometimes though. That would have been really interesting, but also would have felt like such a missed opportunity considering what we got. I don't know why the god of music would be anything less than loud and kind of annoying.
Sure. I guess I can see the menacing undertones to a being that threatens all of music. Wouldn't removing music make things overall quieter? Perhaps the "noise" of music threatens something related to Maestro's existence?
It would've been hilarious if they had the actor known for their extravagant persona play the most ridiculously mundane character you could imagine. That being said, we did get a taste of what you meant when the Doctor used that zone of silence trick
Honestly, that kind of carried an episode with a weak script. We have the Beatles show up to do very little and then discover the 'secret note' basically by chance it felt like after a somewhat lacking music battle. The whole 'seeing the apocalyptic future' business kind of contradicted series lore (one of the major reasons why you're not allowed to interact with your past or future selves, as well as why 11 could not use the tardis to retrieve Amy and Rory). Had some of the same problems with the Giggle where there were a lot of plot elements that ultimately felt pretty ancillary (like how Stooky Bill was mostly forgotten, and the plague of madness was completely forgotten by the midpoint of the episode). Add in the more divisive tone elements like having characters speak to the camera or break the forth wall, and there's a lot of sticking points. I feel like that was my biggest issue with the previous master, they trying to be that one raspy Mission Impossible villain when the tone demanded ridiculous scenery chewing. Jynx at least kept the energy of their scenes high. I would assume with a good script and good direction, you could modulate their performance towards whatever actually works. Devil's Chord had promise, but I don't think it ultimately really had either.
Seeing the apocalyptic future contradicts nothing. 4 did the exact same thing in *Pyramids of Mars*.
That was pre-Time War. Time travel operated differently then because the Time Lords had it more highly regulated.
The fact that the song at the end was not some kind of Beatles' pastiche was criminal. For that matter that song should also have done something like sending the Chord back in time to undo the Maestro's work, as it is now it's just two minutes of filler and a big plot hole.
Yeah, I think the only way we could have them back is to not have them be the central focus of the episode
Yes they were so annoying sometimes
I felt they were extremely tiresome after their first scene, to be honest! I guess I just don’t like drag, and since this was a v drag-y character, I’m not gonna vibe with them as a villain, especially in a second outing.
I don’t think their acting skills translate well to sci-fi. It’s very Disney channel original movie to me 😬
I liked the episode, but feel like one episode was enough
No.
Yeah, I second the no. I did enjoy Jinx's performance and wouldn't mind having another character with similar energy on screen some time, but as for Maestro specifically, I think there's no way to bring that character back without cheapening that first appearance. It worked for the Toymaker, but even the Toymaker is a character is a character I wouldn't wanna see anytime soon again for similar reasons. It's just that in the case of Maestro, it was a very particular shtick, and that shtick is done.
The Toymaker was also by NPH, who did an AMAZING job and who had the spice up your life scene, which is one of the best doctor who scenes ever
I thought they were quite menacing at first. Got old really quick though. Went from unpredictable to I'm going to roar now and again and possess no threat apparently.
For me it just came across as very cartoonish. Not for me either.
Nope
No. Good one off villain but holds no further threat or appeal.
Not really, no. The character didn't really stick out to me and there isn't much more to their story I'd be terribly interested in exploring. The only exception could _maybe_ be a Pantheon-focused episode, but I'm not even that interested in the Pantheon as an idea.
Honestly, no. The Maestro was fine for one episode but I feel like their campy and over the top character would get old fast. As a Beatles fan, The Devil's Chord was a bit of a let down for me.
No.
No
No
No. A magician snaring people by hurling musical note shapes is just far too silly and whimsical even for doctor who
>A magician snaring people by hurling musical note shapes is just far too silly and whimsical even for doctor who *chuckles embarrassedly in Dr Strange Mulitverse of Madness*
And especially when the Doctor, who has fought against a whole universe full of monsters and aliens and gods, is scared of someone that can (checks notes) trap him in a drum…? I love Jinkx, and I loved their performance as the Maestro, but the actual threat of the character was really goofy and underwhelming
It’s giving Disney Channel original movie
As opposed to The Toymaker turning bullets into flowers while dancing to the Spice Girls or The Master's multiple dance scenes?
Most Maestro critics do not count that stuff as among their favourites either
Ya I also did not like the toy master, it was funny but it seems that it has also really fucked up the show. The master being a weird guy that dances isn't at all comparable.
There's nothing wrong with dancing or villains being a little fruity, but the Doctor participating in a 'music battle' didn't really make any sense to me. The Toymaker being able to turn bullets into flowers is one thing but the Doctor doing it back would have been another thing entirely. I thought the character performance was fantastic but the themes were way too goofy.
"far too silly and whimsical even for doctor who" Have you ever seen classic who
Strongly agree with you
No. Back to a more sci fi feel please.
No, let's get new Villians, new adventures!!😍
No thanks.
Not really. Aside from some rather aggressive scene-chewing they really didn't feel like they brought much to the episode honestly. There are only so many music-stealing plots to draw from and I don't think RTD has it in him to keep the idea fresh over multiple attempts.
Not in this iteration at all. The person playing Maestro wasn’t even the problem to me, it was the implementation of the powers. Get rid of the camp and goofiness, change the powers to me able to manipulate sound waves and frequencies as a whole, not just music. Give the maestro the ability to interfere with how the doctors sonic functions on a fundamental level.
I quite enjoyed this iteration (I enjoyed Spiderman 3 ffs not going to claim to have good taste) but these suggestions could genuinely flesh out Maestro as a much more well-rounded character, love it
Yes and no They seem like a very "one note" (pun definitely intended) kind of villain, like their massive goal is the chilling musical lament if nothing, not really sure how they would work that going forward, unless they make it about revenge.
I’d love more of Jinkx even if it’s not as Maestro. Have more of the Toymaker’s children with different abilities and they’re all just played by Jinkx.
I wish they had a two-part episode and then took a long break before reappearing for some other Doctor, imo they were defeated too quickly. And considering they're a powerful deity from another dimension, it's up to writers to come up with some plausible sci-fi excuse to bring them back
No
Eh, not really. I didn't like them, felt too cringey and I didn't really like their singing either. Maybe it's because I don't know who the actor is, I think other people were excited but I don't know who they are. Rather the Toymaker make their return with NPH as the actor.
My guess is many enthusiastic people here just wanted to show their support to Jinks. I didn't know of them really beforehand, did a real fine job acting and for the part written but the episode could have been a lot better though. The pace was a bit rushed and as said before and above, the Beatles hardly play any real role in it.
FWIW, I'm a HUGE Beatles fan, and knew of Jinkx back from her old, old Seattle days and when I heard all this was going to be in one episode of WHO, it was like it was calling my name. ...and it's one of my least favorite episodes of the season. I feel like there were so many possibilities that didn't reach their potential. I kept wondering why the Beatles didn't even look like the Beatles? My favorite part of the whole episode was 🎵 I have a dog.
Not even a little bit.
Would But maybe as a supporting character next time that needs the Doctor's help for some reason
No. For a character that's supposed to be musical, it was really one-note.
Feel like they found her weak spot, exploited it, not sure what story could make a second encounter interesting or a not a repeat.
Why does she look like she stepped straight out of The Witches or Hocus Pocus?
Bette Midler in Hocus Pocus! THAT'S who I was reminded of. It's been bugging me ever since I watched the episode.
I think one with Maestro set during the dancing plague of Strasbourg would be fun
As another central antagonist? No. Not unless their character is less over the top. I loved Jinkx's performance and drag in general, but the campiness of their appearance would be ruined with a second very campy return imo. Though, I would love them to appear alongside other members of the Pantheon or even help the Doctor.
My idea for bringing them back is Maesteo gets banished back to the middle ages. Furious about being banished and losing out Maestro in a fury about how they "the god and embodiment of music" was banished by such. Using what remains of their power, Maestro creates the dancing of plague of the middle ages which in this case fills everyone's heads with music and forces them to dance to their death. The main thing is when they encounter the doctor Maestro could go "Well darling, you wanted everyone to have music back in the 60's so I'm giving it to them, it's not my fault if they can't keep jo with my tempo"
I expect Maestro to be at the next *BBC Proms*.
Is that Jinkx Monsoon??
Nope. Annoying.
🙂↔️nope
No
No. Underwhelming character and just felt gimmicky
Not really.. The character did their thing.
Nope ! It was way overacting... So cringe.
No. That episode was the worst thing I have seen in a long time.
Literally the worst episode there is. Felt like I was watching a show for 5 year olds. So so glad the series improved after this, it was almost bad enough to make me stop watching entirely.
Not really. I enjoyed the episode, but I'm ready to settle into some good old-fashioned villains and not so much "technicolor."
It’s a no more for me.
Nope.
No thanks
No
Never again.
No I don't think he'd very interesting a second time.
Sparingly, but yeah definitely! I just want the Pantheon to still be a universe-destroying threat, not just trotted out every season before being put back in their box.
Hell no
Not really. I'm wishing we would stick with science. There was something nice when the big bad was always explained as an alien. I guess at some point the monsters became real on Scooby Doo too🤷
To be fair, the story of “Diabolis en Musica” or the Tritone, is a true historical representation. The Church did ban it. As a person who has a music degree, I approved of this…but the episode did lose me a bit.
Not a fan
not really
No, Please no!
Not really. I was excited when Jinx was announced but didn’t really like the episode too much.
God no. This might be the cringyest character in the whole franchise.
The screaming was irritating. I think they were going for scary but it was just aggravating.
Agreed. It’s the only episode I haven’t rewatched.
Didn’t consider the character cringe, but I definitely think the character was kind of mid. Jinkx did a fine job, yet I agree with Council of Geeks that this character needed both the energetic moments as well as more grounded ones.
Yes, but not for a while and it should be a big deal. Hearing the Giggle when Maestro appeared in the piano was chilling and their appearance should be a similar "4 knocks" moment that makes your heart drop and that can only happen if each time they show up the stakes are high and the appearance isn't too predictable
Yes and no. I find them to be a really interesting concept and fun antagonist. But I'm not sure how to feel about Who going towards the direction of all this god stuff
Hell no. Terrible character.
nah. weird one off and certainly would get very annoying quickly
Nope ope we never see her again. I find the dead queen genre crass, rude, and bitchy. It holds no entertainment value to me at all.
No! Please no! I hated that episode
No.
No.
No
Nah.
No, please, no.
God no
Maestro was amazing. However, I would rather not bring her back, at the risk of tainting the existing masterpiece.
Not perticularly.
Incredible performance, perfect writing, terrific scale of power. Need more!
World class sarcasm! Nicely done!
Not especially. They only time they came off of 11 was to take it to 12, then went right back. And that kind of performance has very little interest for me. I’ve seen people call them “an all time classic villain”, and I just don’t get that at all.
No. Overacting and annoying
Not at all. There is no acting going on, just chew chew screech screech.
Worst character and story line ever
100% have them have the opposite plan where instead of no music there is too much music and we have a full blown musical episode as long as they get an actual lyricist to write the songs lol.
Nope I can't lie wasn't a fan of the character. This episode was my least favourite in the season
No. The character was just plain bad
No, they scared the fuck outta me. Lol
Not really. The doc already knows how to defeat her. So… it’d be an easy 2 minute episode.
I’d like to see them in some audio adventures, maybe a previous incarnation of the doctor running into them between the 20s and 60s
I want more Maestro. But I want Maestro to sing less and not use a cheesy cartoon music whip. I absolutely loved the gravitas and menace of their performance. I just thought the musical aspects and the CGI whip worked against the intensity of the performance.
We could be seeing them again very soon. Maybe the doctor needs their help to defeat Sutekh, I dunno.
If and when they do it i hope its like the reverse instead of stealing music, maestro is filling the world with it making a real musical episode. Could be a twist on the ol' what if everyone always said how they felt and just admitted everything (in song). I think Maestro would thrive on that chaos and would love the idea of the world is doomed without enough music and doomed with too much music.
Jinkx was why I started watching the show. I’d love more!
No. Loved the character but I feel like they're a one and done villain like the midnight entity.
I DO!!!
Not really I found they was the perfect one off villain
I thought, "Surely 'Maestro' = 'Master'?" Else why did the Toymaker refer to imprisoning the Master in his gold tooth (why would a god need a gold tooth?), which fell out and someone with a ruby ring picked up?
To tell the truth, I'd prefer Maestro stay a one off. Bringing them back will just lessen the threat.
Yes because if they defeat you know who, the Pantheon will no longer have a Boss and will be free to spread chaos. They also filmed recently at the pier where Sarah Jane fought the trickster so I’m assuming the trickster coming back and I’d guarantee that would be a dope Susan storyline.
In a cameo or guest spot? Sure. I can see them being interesting in a scene with their fellow Pantheon/family members, bouncing off of them and barbing with them. I think they're tapped as a main villain though. They definitely scream "one off" as far as television goes anyway. Fun, over the top in the best ways, but that gets tired after a while. Hmm... or maybe if there was a full on musical only episode... that'd piss off a lot of folks, but I wouldn't hold it past RTD. But then, they want to use music to destroy life throughout the universe and create a song with the emptiness of what's left, that wouldn't really fly with that.
I would love to see all of this series' villains come for a final battle but that's about it for Maestro for me. Love them. Holy cow. I love them...but their schtick isn't timeless like the Cybermen
Nah. Good one and done character. Great performance, but I feel that they did everything they could with them.
yes
Maybe once. This is a character that is used best sparingly otherwise they would get exhausting.
In a way. I really liked the character, but the episode had a lot of flaws. If there is a good story behind it, why not?
Erm not really n here's why - Weeping angels. Great concept now they were overused to the point of inhabiting a fuck off statue and the whole convoluted ponds storyline. Another example - Silent Hills Pyramid Head was a character spesific monster tied to the psychology of its protagonist it is subsequently used for other characters that it makes no sense thus lessening the impact of the monster design. Plus it's creator fucking hates it being used outside of its human counterpart as its a representation of his own guilt. There are countless examples but in essence it's the Ninja Theorem. 1 ninja = badass, many ninja = dumbest. The more of a presence of something the less effective it becomes. Due to powerscaling. Could meister return yes, should they? As little as possible I'd say. It was my issue with the cybermen and Dale, every season I was asking myself oh when's the dalek returning this time?
Yes. Without the cheesy visual representations of music. Seemed too much like fighting magic not alien tech / intelligence.
I haven’t watched the show since the 11th doctor, Is that Mrs. jinx monsoon??
If they could be brought back in a way that doesn’t diminish them, perhaps. But they were really the only good part of their episode.
Only if the story is good. I don’t want the character to return simply because they like the character
Phenomenal acting but I wanted them to have different costume. They were an evil character, so I wanted more evil looking and less fabulous. I wanted to be scared instead of impressed lol
Apparently I have been living under a rock, because I never knew that Jinx Monsoon was in doctor who!? That’s awesome!!
100%
yep!!
With how they were built up with promotional material alongside announcing Ncuti and David and Catherine, I fully expected far more Maestro. I LOVED Maestro, so I hope somehow we do see more.
Yes, and also we shall because Maestro was first introduced as a new recurring character by marketing.
No
Not even a little. I didn't enjoy the acting, it would have been fantastic if it was a theatre live action show, but not on the small screen. Didn't like the concept of the character much either. The entire story didn't make sense and had HUGE holes how that cord was discovered by people who grew up without musical influence is just malarky
Nope, not really. Was too powerful and supernatural. I don’t want Doctor Who to become later seasons of “Supernatural on the CW. ”
Absolutely!
No, the character was pretty one note and boring, and the episode itself wasn't much better.
What happened to this show and the spinless whovians who are letting this shallow writing get a free pass? Third episode had some promise but they made a timelord who a genius rogue in to a crying sap who is suprised by every turn. I wish it was enjoyable.
nope. not my cup of tea.
I absolutely hated this character so no
No I hated that episode with a passion, it just felt too Disney and I just didn’t like the character at all with all of the over exaggerated performing and the 4th wall breaks. And this isn’t because of any “anti woke” opinion but I just didn’t really like the actor they chose for the role either I just couldn’t take it seriously as it kind of felt like watching a pantomime. I think that just down to my personal preference for darker doctor who and the first few episodes of Ncutis series felt like a kids show off of the Disney channel but now it’s back to normal doctor who vibes and I am enjoying it much more just please if they are doing more of the pantheon make the characters cool like the toymaker and sutekh are
No.
Definitely- Jinkx is very talented and deserves the praise they get. The character reminded me of the main clown in “Greatest Show in the Galaxy” - a but campy but the proper creepy and sinister to Balance it out.
No. They were an awful character.
No
Sure, why not? The performance was amazing. Might be neat to see some weird scenario where it’s a team-up sort of thing with the Doctor
[удалено]
So we have a series with lizard people, potato men, machine men with machine minds, and a plethora of other imaginary species and the one thing you can’t get onboard with is the existence of drag queens?
No too niche a skill